back to article Sleek Nokia Lumia details EXPOSED ahead of Thursday's disrobing

You can’t keep a product launch secret these days – and it doesn’t help when your platform partner is incontinent. Nokia’s second 41-megapixel phone, and its first running Windows Phone, will be unveiled to the press in New York on Thursday. But leaks have already disclosed its name, specifications and design. The Windows …

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  1. JDX Gold badge

    Sounds bloody expensive.

    1. Down not across Silver badge

      Reassuringly expensive?

      It does doesn't it. Assuming it will be fair bit higher than 920/925 its not going to be cheap.

      If the picture quality is good enough, I guess one could try to justify the price by not needing a compact point and shoot. However that would only apply to potential buyers who did NOT already have a compact and were in the marker for that and a new phone. Who would by a camera with only built-in storage tho? :)

      1. theOtherJT

        Re: Reassuringly expensive?

        That would be me then.

        I never got even close to filling 32gb of SD card in my DSLR, and I never bought a compact because I use the DSLR for taking good photos, and the crappy camera in my phone for taking quick snaps. I frequently wished the quick snaps were better, but didn't want to carry another device.

        Maybe I'm the only one, I don't know, but there's pretty damn good odds I'll be buying one of these as long as they don't get _really_ silly with the pricing.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Reassuringly expensive?

          It could do well - it's not going to be the new iPhone but they sell other handsets so having a specialist phone for the large number of people who like taking photos might be worth it.

          We'll have to wait and see.

    2. Bob Vistakin
      Megaphone

      Me got new one, me got bright yellow one

      Me show new fone.

      People run away. Come back I cry. Me show how brite yellow new fone is future.

      People no understand. Brite yellow best fone ever.

      Get a brite yellow fone. Show world you are special.

      1. bdam
        Facepalm

        Re: Me got new one, me got bright yellow one

        Remember folks - this is what Symbian was thrown away for, because we were all told it was a "burning platform", and Android swerved because "there is no way to differentiate handsets", unlike, err, the way manufacturers can infinitely customize WP8. Just don't tell that to Samsung, Sony, HTC etc.

        Actually, yellow is an appropriate color when you think of whos pocket Elop was in when he made this "decision".

    3. Anonymous Coward #69
      Thumb Up

      The Microsoft store has already leaked a price of $600 unlocked, so it will probably cost the same as any mid-range to high end handset ie £500 unlocked and £30-35 on contract.

  2. Down not across Silver badge
    WTF?

    No expandable storage?

    No expandable storage, even with 32GB on-board, when camera is the main feature seems a bit silly design choice.

    1. larryk78
      Coffee/keyboard

      Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

      Why on God's green earth would you need more than 32GB of internal storage on a cameraphone?

      I have a "prosumer" DSLR with a 32GB card and have never even come close to filling it, even with thousands of photos taken over many months and being a ridiculously lazy bastard when it comes to offloading onto my computer.

      Even if you also install hundreds of apps, dump gigs of mp3s and full-length movies and install offline map data for multiple countries on there, provided you do actually offload your photos once in a while, you won't use all 32GB.

      The only silly choice here would be to not offload your photos. If you're "that" kind of person, remember to turn on the auto-upload and I really hope you don't lose your phone.

      1. t.est

        Re: Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

        On the iPhone 4 the 32GB was a sweet spot. This camera has the potential of taking much larger pictures than the iPhone 4. I have no clue of what it's potential is towards filming.

        Well maybe it's not so much of a problem as Apps still are missing from the Win Phone platform. At least those heavy apps taking giga bytes of space.

        The iphone 4s i have now from my company has only 16GB, I have to sacrifice my music or my video taking possibilities. Right now there is no music on my phone, i prefer that to cloud services with their sunky quality.

        Best of all would be 64GB. On a longer travel period even the 32GB was a bit little, but I had the possibility to move my videos to my old 64GB iPod.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

        You're on holiday, so you can't use data connections (unless you feel like emptying your bank account), you take a lot of snaps.

        You drop the sodding phone, it doesn't boot up.

        Photos lost.

        MicroSD? Pop it out...

        1. Mark .

          Re: Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

          Fair point - though I wonder how many people with phones with SD cards have them actually set up to save to the SD card rather than internal storage... (I have a Nexus, so this is a genuine question - what is the default save location for the camera on Android these days?)

      3. Mr Spock

        Re: Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

        Why on God's green earth would you need more than 32GB of internal storage on a cameraphone?

        Dunno; why would you need more than 640K in your PC?

      4. Alan Edwards
        Happy

        Re: Get a grip on your massive storage requirements

        A phone's different to a camera. I did a week in Nevada and Arizona and didn't fill the 8Gb card in the camera, but the 32Gb card in my phone is a bit tight with MP3s and navigation maps on it.

        It will be interesting to see a comparison between this and a Galaxy Zoom 41 megapixels and clever software vs. a smaller sensor and proper optical zoom (and a card slot :-) ).

    2. Squander Two

      Re: No expandable storage?

      I have a Lumia, and can confirm that the auto-upload to Skydrive is completely hassle-free and means that onboard storage is academic. If you take a photo then immediately delete it, it'll still be sitting there on your PC next time you turn it on.

      1. Mr Spock

        Re: No expandable storage?

        I have a Lumia, and can confirm that the auto-upload to Skydrive is completely hassle-free and means that onboard storage is academic.

        'D hate to be on a plane with one of these.

        1. Squander Two

          "'D hate to be on a plane with one of these."

          Windows Phone allows you to set data connections to on, off, or only when not roaming.

    3. Mark .

      Re: No expandable storage?

      I strongly believe phones (and media players/tablets/etc come to that) should have microSD. But I don't think photos are the issue - it's more things like storing your music and video collection.

      My dedicated camera still only has a 2GB card in it from years ago, and holds god knows how many photos. We've come a long way from Apple Quicktake and "holds 8 poor resolution photos at a time" (remember that flop? But I thought everything they released was a success!)

      And at least this does have 32GB - the problem is when microSD devices only give us 16GB (or less). Though a 64GB option would be nice.

  3. gautam

    What are they selling?

    Seriously, it seems the whole marketing is based on the Camera specs. WTF? Are they selling a camera with a phone slapped on as an afterthought? Or Vice versa?

    Can it make calls?

    IF you really need a goood camera, why cant you just buy one and have the rest of the phone as a separate entity?

    ANd they will also chareg upwards of £500 for thsi privilege.

    1. Squander Two

      "why cant you just buy [a camera] and have the rest of the phone as a separate entity?"

      Well, of course you can, and I think a lot of us do. I for one am getting quite pissed off with lugging a decent camera around, though, especially on holiday with kids, who always manage to provide you with loads of other stuff to carry. If I could get a phone with a good enough camera to do justice to those valuable memories I want to be looking at tearfully in my eighties, then I'd happily ditch the bloody camera.

      1. Great Bu

        Re: "why cant you just buy [a camera] and have the rest of the phone as a separate entity?"

        @Squander Two - you're approaching the problem from the wrong angle - get rid of the kids and then you can afford to carry as many widgets as you want !

        1. Squander Two

          Re: "why cant you just buy [a camera] and have the rest of the phone as a separate entity?"

          @ Great Bu

          But then what would I photograph?

          Nice to see you're up, by the way.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What are they selling?

      Personally, I've recently let my point-and-push die a death and got a really nice Nikkon V1 as a good camera and I use my phone for snapshots and flash photos (the V1 doesn't have a built in flash). I find this a good combination, it's surprising how good some of the photos you can take on a modern phone are, but then if I'm going somewhere I want to photograph I've got all of the prosumer stuff on the V1, such as interchangeable lenses, filters, high speed photography, etc.

    3. Maharg
      Thumb Up

      Re: What are they selling?

      Back in the mists of time (2010) I bought a Nokia N8, I am quite into photography, and the idea of a decent camera on the phone appealed to me, although I didn’t think it would, in the end it replaced my compact camera as my go to device, and unless I was going out for a planned shoot (in which case the SLR was picked up) the N8 worked brilliantly, I can only remember one instance of taking a picture when I wished I had the compact instead of the phone, and while there were times I wished I had my SLR, it’s not practical having it with you all the time, and the benefits of not having two bits of kit in my pockets was the main point.

      This is something I would be very happy to have, and if the price is quite high, that’s no problem, I’m not the type of person that needs shiny new when it comes out, I will just wait a few months and get it when it’s closer to what I am willing to pay.

    4. JDX Gold badge

      Re: What are they selling?

      "IF you really need a goood camera, why cant you just buy one and have the rest of the phone as a separate entity?"

      If you need to do email, why can't you just buy a laptop?

      If you want to listen to music, why don't you buy a separate MP3 player?

      ... just because you don't want a multi-function device doesn't mean nobody else does. Camera is one of the most widely used functions on phones, so clearly people value the ability to take pictures on a phone. A phone that can actually take GOOD pictures is therefore not a bad call.

    5. Rack1600

      Re: What are they selling?

      Clearly they are spending all of this R&D cash on the camera because it is unimportant to the masses, as they carry a camera in their left pocket and a phone in their right pocket.

      </sarcasm>

      Only photo buffs have their camera on them 90% of their waking time. The rest of us have a camera in a drawer somewhere, where we occasionally dust it off for a trip or something. As mentioned before, the best camera for the job is the one you have on you. I take about 80% of my photos on my crappy phone sensor and I would love a better one next time.

      Still won't convince me to take Win8 though until they get my banking app. I don't give a S**t about the 1bazillion apps what iPhone or Android or MS have - no banking app is a deal breaker.

      1. Anonymous Coward #69

        Re: What are they selling?

        Natwest there already, as is RBS. Baclays is coming soon, as is Halifax anjd Lloyds

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Optics...

    ... impressive megapixel count but you're still taking photos through a lens not much bigger than a grain of rice.

    1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Optics...

      If this was an DSLR I would agree. Optics is important if you indeed want to use full pixel count. If you use pixel binning, not so much. Actually, one may avoid using anti-alias filter on sensor, simply by keeping optics resolution under Nyquist limit of the sensor, and still benefit from extra pixels for noise removal algorithms. Which, judging by 808, is exactly what Nokia did before.

    2. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: Optics...

      But! They've paid all that money to be able to print 'Carl Zeiss' on their lenses! So that makes them better, right?

    3. Getriebe
      Boffin

      Re: Optics...

      "lens not much bigger than a grain of rice"

      Explain to me, apart from light gathering, why is the small lens a problem?

      Or have you solved the differential speed of coloured light through different mediums problem? The nation holds its breath.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Several Questions:

    1/ Will it come with faked footage to make it seem much better than it actually is, as traditionally all Lumias have in the past.

    2/ Will there be an Android option, so I don't have to suffer the humilation of owning a Windows Phone.

    3/ Will it be a good as a small DSLR like the NEX-5R, otherwise, why should I bother?

    1. Fuzz

      Re: Several Questions:

      DSLR Digtal Single Lens Reflex

      1. The NEX-5R is not a DSLR

      2. The NEX-5R is not a phone

      3. The NEX-5R requires gigantic lenses to cover its sensor

      4. The NEX-5R weighs 275g without a lens

      5. The NEX-5R has no built in flash

      Do you need any more?

      I'm not saying this is the phone/camera for you but for a lot of people this is all the camera they will ever need, it will be way better than any camera they have ever owned before and it's a smartphone at the same time.

      That said, no upgradeable storage is just idiocy.

    2. Spearchucker Jones

      Re: Several Questions:

      The 920 is just as good as the faked TV ad. I shake mine like a monkey waxing his carrot and the video doesn't skip a beat. It really is that stable.

      Read the 808 reviews in photography forums. Most seem to think it's as good as a DSLR. Of course I can't say anything about the 1020 until I get my hands on one.

    3. Bob Vistakin
      Happy

      Re: Several Questions:

      Helpful Bob here to remind everyone of all the fun.

    4. Squander Two
      WTF?

      "so I don't have to suffer the humilation of owning a Windows Phone."

      If your reason for choosing an OS is what you imagine other people will think of you when they look over your shoulder, I don't think your problems can be fixed by a mere change of policy at Nokia.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "so I don't have to suffer the humilation of owning a Windows Phone."

        What? You've got that back to front. Owning a particular brand of phone, clothes, car, etc is driven by "what you imagine other people will think of you when they look" for 99% of the population. Not wanting to own an MS OS is driven by hard, painful experience.

        1. Squander Two

          Re: "so I don't have to suffer the humilation of owning a Windows Phone."

          Perhaps, and a change of policy at Nokia won't solve the problems of 99% of the population.

  6. andreas koch
    Thumb Up

    At least they avoided vignetting.

    No round corners to be seen.

  7. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Sounds like Nokia could release a product to compete with the likes of GoPro, video cameras for 'extreme' sports (or duck-taping to quadropters). Obviously the market for dedicated camcorders is smaller than that for phones, but still!

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/8/4503382/nokia-lumia-1020-sample-photo-joe-belfiore-flickr

    1. spaceyjase
      Thumb Up

      I quite like this. At least it (kind of) confirms that there's still some clever bods over at Nokia and they can hang on to the tech. Symbian made it easy to drop in the specialist hardware needed to run the camera, so I'd like to think there's someone driving Windows development too. Will it function as well as the 808? I'd like to hope so, will probably end up buying one (sadly, my 808 is less useful without multi-calendar sync).

      Target audience is easy. I take my 808 out and about where I wouldn't normally have a full range of camera kit with me. It's only a passing hobby, yet I know I can take some damn fine pictures while I'm cycling around or even just the random bugs in my garden (for example).

      https://secure.flickr.com/photos/98654092@N02/9250662774/

      https://secure.flickr.com/photos/98654092@N02/9247910369/

      1. Squander Two
        Thumb Up

        @ spaceyjase

        Those photos are incredible. It's frankly amazing that that second one was taken with a phone. Well done to you and Nokia.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sounds like Nokia could release a product to compete with the likes of a steaming pile of dung. People have tried burying their WIndows Phones, but nothing has grown.

  8. chuBb.

    Looks good

    Wonder if it will be out over here by the time my lumia 900 is up for renewal...

  9. Sir Sham Cad

    If you like a lot of camera on your smartphone join our club

    So Nokia have just won at phone cameras. Also, by association, have Microsoft as you have to have WinPho 8 if you want the best phone camera.

    If that doesn't significantly increase market share for both then there's no hope for the platform as it stands.

    *sigh* I like Nokia, I really do. They can turn out some magnificent hardware when they put their minds to it. I just wish this was running some Meego-a-like rather than WinPhone which I, personally, struggle to like.

    1. Squander Two

      Meego.

      I had an N900 and loved Maemo. Thought Elop was a moron for ditching it. But I have to say, using WinPho, I'm a convert. It's superb.

      It's always going to come down to personal taste, I suppose.

    2. Mr Spock

      Re: If you like a lot of camera on your smartphone join our club

      So Nokia have just won at phone cameras.

      Not exactly. It's a win if they put it into something that people want to buy.

      Ah! The 808 PureView. Ok... so it's a win if they put it into something that they're willing to sell...

      1. dogged
        Meh

        Re: If you like a lot of camera on your smartphone join our club

        Hi Eadon.

  10. ThomH Silver badge

    I'm still unclear who the target audience is

    So it's not really conveniently shaped as a phone and its photos aren't as good as a real camera? I can't help feeling this is like producing an MP3 player that can output 400Khz audio or something like that — yes, most people could tell the difference in a blind test but, no, nobody is sufficiently bothered about it to put up with the inconvenience.

    So I guess it's just supposed to help attach better-than-usual photography to the Nokia brand and not actually to sell?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I'm still unclear who the target audience is

      Just search the interwebs for comparisons of the previous Belle Pureview against things like the Lumix LX-5 before commenting... or, as the article suggests, the Reg write-up. The Pureview fits in jeans pocket; the Lumix does not.

      There are more WinPho 8 phones in my local pub than the comments section of the Register would suggest. I haven't used one, but the users (be them converts from Nokia candybar dumb phones, older Android phones or 'feature phones') really don't seem bothered.

    2. Mark .

      Re: I'm still unclear who the target audience is

      "So it's not really conveniently shaped as a phone"

      What's the correct phone shape? A 5.5" Galaxy Note?

      "and its photos aren't as good as a real camera? "

      Says who?

      "yes, most people could tell the difference in a blind test but, no, nobody is sufficiently bothered about it to put up with the inconvenience."

      First you're saying it's not as good, now you're saying it is better but no one cares - which is it?

      1. ThomH Silver badge

        Re: I'm still unclear who the target audience is

        "What's the correct phone shape? A 5.5" Galaxy Note?"

        Candybars seem to be the preferred shape. Candybars with bits poking out not so much.

        "Says who?"

        DPReview, DxOMark, pretty much all the objective reviews. It's the best camera-in-a-phone on the market by a healthy margin but it was found lacking compared to the modern compact cameras. It's a small sensor and a tiny lens. Nokia can't beat physics.

        "First you're saying it's not as good, now you're saying it is better but no one cares - which is it?"

        You failed to comprehend the point I attempted to make. It's worse than a dedicated camera. It's better than other cameraphones. But it's less convenient than other cameraphones, and the lesson of MP3s is that convenience trumps quality.

  11. Bob Gender
    Trollface

    Lumia?

    Buster Gonad, a (Viz) joke so good you used it twice!

    I'm not convinced that "Lumia 1020" is the final name, although open to being proven wrong. Have seen indications of another name in some interesting places (no, not EON or ELVIS).

    The other problem is Sony are going to 20MP for i1 and I'm not sure WP8 +PureView has enough power to stop that 'winning'.

  12. DS 1

    No expandable storage

    What a bunch of morons. I have no words for this kind of continual clusterfuck.

    If there was a device to have an SD card slot on it, this was one.

    Nokia + Microsoft - epic conbinations of failure.

    1. Squander Two

      Re: No expandable storage

      It does have expandable storage: Skydrive. Get with the times.

      1. Piro

        Re: No expandable storage

        Yeah, that's really helpful on holiday when you would spend a million pounds to upload one high res image.

        Stop sucking off "the cloud" propaganda.

        1. Squander Two

          Re: No expandable storage

          Yeah, roaming is the one situation where Skydrive falls down. Personally, I can't see me taking so many photos in a couple of weeks that I'd fill up that much memory; my 800 only has 16GB and I haven't come close to needing it all -- and I take a lot of photos. I tend to bump into the odd wifi hotspot on holiday these days, too; it's not all roaming when abroad. And I'd've thought that someone who wants to take such a huge volume of photos might have a laptop with them anyway. Not saying an SD card would have been a bad idea, but I think the number of people who will actually experience real problems as a result of its lack is vanishingly small.

        2. JDX Gold badge

          Re: No expandable storage

          If only you could connect it to your laptop with a $2 USB cable....

          32Gb is big for a digital camera, thousands of pictures. If you're into photography enough to buy this, you will probably take a laptop with you on holiday to review them.

          And of course, on holiday you never get wifi, in every coffee shop or hotel or bar you visit.

          1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            1. Squander Two
              WTF?

              "You are not using your phone for photos exclusively"

              Very true. My Lumia 800 has 16GB of memory, over 1000 photos at the maximum definition setting, over 600 songs, a few minutes of video, a bunch of apps installed, some Kindle books, a few large attachments sitting in emails, and more than 2GB still free. And this new Nokia will have double the memory? Wow.

            2. JDX Gold badge

              Re: No expandable storage

              Why are you wanting to use a £600 phone as a thumbdrive replacement?

              Maybe they'll do a 64Gb version, if this is the super-top-end model.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No expandable storage

          Everywhere I've been on holiday recently has had WiFi in the hotel. Ok, you may go camping in a field, but it's still not beyond the wit-o-man to find a cheap or free WiFi Internet connection.

          1. TeeCee Gold badge

            Re: No expandable storage

            Hmm, I run into the "ethernet only" issue all too often. The other take on that is "ethernet only and your laptop has its ethernet port on the wrong side for this stupidly short cable to reach to".

            Answer? Ebay. 10 quid(!) [1] got me a memory-stick-sized(!!) fully-featured wifi router(!!!) from Hong Kong. Plug hotel's ethernet cable in one end and USB power in the other. Presto, my very own wireless network in my room.

            I've given up on in-room hotel wifi, when it is provided, as this provides instant access without fannying around configuring an additional wireless network on all my devices.

            [1] Anyone care to explain why a complete WiFi router in a small placcy case costs around half what a bit of flash memory in a similar placcy case does?

            1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

              Re: No expandable storage

              Because it's not a bit of flash memory - it's ten thousand million bits. In other words, you get what you pay for.

  13. Jess

    Good news

    This may bring the price of an 808 to where I can justify it to myself. Like the first NoWin things did to the N8.

  14. Robert E A Harvey

    eh?

    sodding great camera and no removable storage?

    who thought of that then?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lens Resolution

    Maybe I'm missing something, but surely the lens on this phone won't be able to resolve the level of detail required for that sensor? So by cramming 38 megapixels into the sensor, all you gain is large files sizes with no noticeable improvement in image quality.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lens Resolution

      Have a look at the sample images on the 808 reviews from last year - they were very impressive.

      You'll be hostage to the quality of the lens to an extent, but hitherto the limitingn factor was the sensor which this fixes. I suspect the bundle will appeal to a very niche group of early adopters, but the lack of storage, large file sizes, uncertainly popular OS, high price, and the fact that most people aren't complaining about the quality of their phone cameras makes me suspect this may struggle to do much other than command headlines for a few days.

      Even a two year old smartphone (eg SGS2) can produce adequate 8 Mp images and respectable video for most users. The new Nokia should be a lot better, but will people care? The demise of conventional cameras and decent hi-fi suggest that they won't. Adequate is the new black.

      1. Rack1600

        Re: Lens Resolution

        I have an SG2 and I would say the quality is not good. Even in good light the pictures are not really good enough for anything other than a 6x4".

        And that is all down to the low quality sensor.

    2. Alan 6

      Re: Lens Resolution

      The image files will be 5mp or 8mp most likely, as they'll be using pixel binning to give better low-light performance - basically the opposite to interpolation

    3. Steve Litchfield

      Re: Lens Resolution

      You're missing the Carl Zeiss optics and the PureView oversampling. I've taken 3000 Nokia 808 photos in the last year and precisely none of them (other than to test it) was at 38MP. The 808 outputs 5MP 'pure' images. And they're VERY good. Or you can ditch the oversampling and software zoom in with no loss/pixellation. Very flexible, very good results.

    4. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Lens Resolution

      >Maybe I'm missing something,

      You missed the link to the Reg write-up of the original Pureview... where you can judge the output for yourself instead of speculating. Tis easier.

    5. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: Lens Resolution

      You don't gain large files; the large number of megapixels are processed to produce an ordinary resolution output. So what the device primarily gains over an ordinary 5MP sensor is colour resolution, for better post processing.

      I guess it's easier to make photocells more sensitive (as is necessary to make them smaller because they'll receive less light) than to give them a greater overall range?

  16. Shagbag

    Same old, same old...

    Change the OS to one that consumers actually want and it'll sell like hot cakes.

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Same old, same old...

      I smell fandroid.

      Running Android didn't make the HTC One a super success against the S3 or iPhone.

      Most people don't buy operating systems, they buy phones by brand or features. A monster camera might do well, Nokia's brand isn't too shabby.

      Questioning the lack of memory slot though.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Same old, same old...

        "Running Android didn't make the HTC One a super success against the S3"

        That's not because there is anything wrong with the HTC One, the Xperia Z, or any of the other high end Android handsets, it's because braindead idiots only buy what they know. Those same braindead idiots will surely also own a Kindle too.

    2. David Hicks
      Meh

      Re: Same old, same old...

      >> Change the OS to one that consumers actually want and it'll sell like hot cakes.

      Pretty much.

      A friend went to buy a new phone at the weekend, and was persuaded to try a winphone. It went back the next day because it was crappy. This is a non-tech friend who hated her last android. If MS can't appeal to that demographic then it seems all is lost.

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Same old, same old...

        Your friend didn't like WP? Oh no, quick call MS. Clearly nobody ever disliked Android or iPhones enough to return them.

        1. David Hicks

          Re: Same old, same old...

          >> Your friend didn't like WP? Oh no, quick call MS. Clearly nobody ever disliked Android or iPhones enough to return them.

          Err, yeah, but if MS market differentiation strategy can't even pick up disaffected android users with a history of nokia-buying and *who have been persuaded to take a winphone home for a trial period* then they're a complete joke. I'm not sure what you're driving at here.

          I'm not trying to say everyone always likes the other OSs, I'm saying it fails on its own merit.

          1. Squander Two
            Devil

            "I'm saying it fails on its own merit."

            Based on a sample of one.

            "My friend didn't like it. Therefore Microsoft have made an OS hated by every single person on the planet who's anything like my friend."

            If I find a disaffected Android user with a history of buying Nokias who does like Lumias, will that prove that your friend doesn't exist? Or, perhaps, are people individuals?

            1. David Hicks
              FAIL

              Re: "I'm saying it fails on its own merit."

              >> Based on a sample of one.

              One I have had the chance to observe. The marketplace as a whole would seem to have me backed up on this though, don't you think?

      2. Getriebe

        Re: Same old, same old...

        @David Hicks

        Didn't like WP, previously didn't like And., maybe she wants an iShine so she can join the other giggly girls in that corner of the pub?

        1. David Hicks
          FAIL

          Re: Same old, same old...

          >> Didn't like WP, previously didn't like And., maybe she wants an iShine so she can join the other giggly girls in that corner of the pub?

          Err no. Sexist much?

  17. Tapeador

    Want

    that one

  18. Herby Silver badge

    Sounds like...

    A Surface mini tablet and nice camera with a phone added. When will they start with the dancers and magnetically attachable keyboards in the TV advertising. I suspect it is only a matter of time.

    Phone? To be seen.

  19. Big Van Vader

    Oh Dear !

    Hmmm 32 Gb with no SD Slot !!!!

    oh dear oh dear !!!

    that is apalling since the "other folder" takes about 20Gb.............

    As Nokia once said going Android would be like peeing in your pants to keep warm

    Well It is clear to see with a line of uninspiring Lumia models, with WP only supporting 2010 chipsets that

    Nokia going WP has been akin to them taking a massive S**T in ones pants to keep warm.

    Hopefully Q2 will be the one that sees Elop ousted and then these once great company can at least restore some dignity if nothing else.............

    Nokia in 2013 producing sickly coloured lumps of plastic phones....who would have thought :/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh Dear !

      Without wanting to feed an probable troll: What's this "other folder" you speak of?

      1. Big Van Vader

        Re: Oh Dear !

        http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp8-wpstart/what-makes-up-the-other-folder-in-phone-storage-of/4dedd1da-11f4-4be7-930e-17e41ace4095

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Oh Dear !

          Hmm... Just checked my Lumia 820 - It's "other" folder is 889MB, it's a fairly heavily used phone and has quite a few apps installed on it. That said, it does have a 32GB micro ssd card in it.

  20. Bob AMG

    I love it when some one does things differently

    So you dont like windows mobile, that's a personal choice I still like the old windows mobile from the days of the HD2. Its not as good as android but it was fine for what I wanted. The cam is very good on this device I would go as far as to say the best of any mobile phone ever. Its not as good as an SLR but the best camera in the world is the one you have on you. I have a D7000 and I don't carry it with me unless I know I am going to use it. My phone is always on me. Yes an android version would be so nice I would put my money where my mouth is and buy one. Saying that if it could be modded to run droid and cam, then I would buy one.

  21. Robert Forsyth

    Surely it should be called 20 20 (vision)

    Or is that not how opticians measure eye sight elsewhere.

    Only one lens and sensor may be half of 20 20 which is 10 10

  22. Mike Brown

    want

    but not with windows. android flavoured version please

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: want

      As you well know, that's never going to happen. So you have a choice, use WP OS or stop bitching about it and just stay with Android on whatever platform.

      This is how differentiating features work, you may not like some aspects of the hardware or software, but others are outstanding, winning you over.

      1. Mike Brown

        Re: want

        it might, as thats how capitilism works. If enough people dont buy it because of win pho, they will need to try something else. Nokia have insinuated that they have a plan b.....

  23. Mr Spock

    Since Nokia unveiled its imaging technology in the final Symbian phone, the PureView 808 in February 2012, it’s been a guessing game when the system would run on a modern OS.

    So when do you think that is going to happen?

  24. Beamerboy

    32GB

    Is enough for over 8500 photos on my DSLR camera, even if half of it was taken up by OS, Apps etc I think most of us could cope with c4000 photos between uploads! If you choose to fill it with films to watch on the screen (I don't I have a tablet or TV (remember those) for that) that's your choice. And if you are going on a photography heavy holiday, safari or similar, no doubt you'll have your DSLR with you anyway. So just stop moaning about storage and just sort your sh*t out!

    As for WinPho8 - have had it as a work phone for the past couple of months, and I'm converted, even a chance my next personal handset will be W8 rather than Android - I used to slate it but having used it now love it!

    1. James Hughes 1

      Re: 32GB

      What he said - all these people complaining about 32GB - have you EVER filled up a 32GB card in a camera? I suppose if you take lots of 1080p30 video you might get close, but for just pictures, no, never. I have a 14MP DSLR, with an 8GB card - I've never filed it right up - even on holiday.

      I don't even have a 32GB SD card, and its never been a problem.

      1. David Black
        Meh

        Re: 32GB

        I think you answered your own question... video! A fairly small number (in my experience, about 12ish) of 3-5 min 1080p HD quality video will fill that memory up nicely when used normally (default vide settings, some apps and music loaded too).

        And as for SkyDrive on the go, you are having a laugh. do I really want my phone syncing gigs of data on 3G-ish connections??? I take it you don't use the phone for calls and web browsing much or like the battery to last more than a few hours. And my home wifi might be ok but I don't think I've ever been to a hotel where the wifi wasn't the preverbial whores knickers let alone able to transfer data.

        I'm no hater and I can't see why is anyone supporting the absence of removable storage on this device?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 32GB

      "32GB... Is enough for over 8500 photos on my DSLR camera,"

      You never shoot raw or raw+jpeg and just mid to low res jpegs then?

      In more typical use a completely empty 32GB card would give your average DSLR/DSLM (say 16MP sensor) about 1,800 raw and about 1,130 raw+jpeg (fine) depending upon various factors.

  25. Stuart 16

    I have 2 Lumias, and I want that phone. Haters can hate all they like, they're idiots.

  26. James Hughes 1

    Once again, some points about the 808

    The GPU/ISP that runs the sensor on the 808 was NOT developed by Nokia (as I have pointed out before, but someone at the Reg still keeps saying its was Nokia), and Nokia DID NOT write the software that drives it. That was done by the camera team at Broadcom in Cambridge. The chip is the Brcm2763, the GPU is the Videocore4 which is very very similar to the one in the Raspberry Pi. (Just add an Arm, same GPU/ISP). It's quite annoying that Nokia get ALL the credit for the 808 whereas an awful lot of the hard work was done by us. Nokia people wrote the camera app and did a lot of the camera tuning (along with the Broadcom team).

    However, that team has nothing to do with this new Nokia, so I presume it's a new camera system, probably developed by Qualcomm who provide the GPU/ISP for the Lumia, IIRC.

  27. GiveHalfA

    Hope springs eternal

    The 808/black is on Amazon.co.uk for 325 pounds new so there is hope for a good price for this one, even if not on day 1.

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