back to article Can Microsoft's U-turn stop the Xbox 360 becoming another XP?

It's shaping up to be a summer of U-turns for Microsoft. In May Redmond revealed big changes to Windows 8 that increasingly look like a step-away from the all-or-nothing march into the Metro touch UI. Microsoft's now retreating on Xbox One as Don Mattrick, president of the company's interactive entertainment business, was …

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  1. Spearchucker Jones
    WTF?

    No.

    That, at least, is what Betteridge's law of headlines tells us. The reality is yes. Because no publisher will create new games for an old console. Duh.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No.

      Publishers will create games if the market is there and they are permitted to. Sega were releasing Dreamcast games for 6 years after they pulled the plug on console production in 2001. However Sega had no need to kill off the Dreamcast as they had no newer model to push.

      1. TheVogon Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: No.

        Another XP? What - as in a massive success and cash cow, with a lifetime of 13 years+ ?

        1. lawl
          Thumb Up

          I think you missed the point.

          The point the headline is making is that so many people are still using XP even after Vista, 7 & 8. It's suggesting that the XBone will be a flop and everyone will stick with the 360.

          1. kb
            FAIL

            Re: I think you missed the point.

            But that is missing a big factor in why that comparison doesn't work. With XP? You honestly don't NEED to get MSFT to "bless" you to make it a usable OS, whereas with consoles MSFT can simply refuse to license new games and that is that.

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. kb
        Windows

        Re: No.

        Win 8 is a corpse because it is NOT intuitive, NOT discoverable, and most tasks (if you can even figure out how to do what you want, I've seen geeks that have been using windows since 3.1 not figure out basic tasks with that turkey) take MORE work and are MORE of a PITB and not less.

        To me a perfect example is when i posted to a site filled to the brim with OS guys, the kind that will download offbeat OSes like Haiku just because "hey I've never tried that!", and I posted how stupid it was that Win 8 put shutdown under settings, that this made ZERO sense and didn't follow conventions, know what I got? "So THAT is how you shut it down!" because the majority had NOT figured out the standard procedure to accomplish this basic task, some were hitting the power button, some were logging off to get to it that way, after weeks of fiddling most couldn't even find the shutdown button in the OS.

        I'm sorry but if your design is so convoluted that geeks can't figure the damned thing out? You are in BAD shape. win 8 is what you get when you let artists that no zipola about OS design "make something pretty for tablets". ironically what do most defenders of Win 8 tell you? Use keyboard commands LOL! Yeah, a tablet design that isn't usable without going back to memorizing keyboard shortcuts like Windows 2, smooth. I don't know how links work here, or if they do at all, but this animated evaluation says it better than I could..

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo

    3. SuccessCase

      Re: No.

      Betteridge's Law of Headlines is broken in this case because the headline contains too many clauses and negatives to parse easily. If the reg had actual newspaper hacks writing the headlines, they would likely have simplified the headline to the point where Betteridge's Law would apply, so his law remains a good one I think.

      I'm not a hack, but I would think something like the following would have been more likely for the Mail or the Sun:

      Is XBox still on the Road to Vista?

    4. Dr. Bobalicous
      Facepalm

      Re: No.

      So Fifa 14 isn't being released for the PS2 then? A brand new game on a 13 year old console which has a successor already released....

      Source:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_14

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2

      and

      http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-10-fifa-14-confirmed-for-pc-ps2-wii-ios-android-everything-but-wii-u

      1. Ramiro

        Re: No.

        Playstation 2 are still big sellers in Brazil. Only very recently PS 3 became reasonably affordable to a normal middle class family, and these are a minority here. The market for PS 2 is still huge, if they know how to handle it.

        1. asdf Silver badge

          Re: No.

          The PS2 I believe is still the biggest selling console in history though I think the DS was very close.

        2. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: No.

          Brazil, and or India do NOT, the First World make. And do less to propagate a Ten Year plan that was promised to the "First World"! I could care less about these Developing nations and more so about my own. This holds just as true above the Board be-it for Video Games, or Homelessness. Television and Popstars like to make a big to-do about whats going on 'round the World all the while not bothering to look further down their own Road.

          So while the PS2 may ~just maybe~ enjoying life in some for off Tropical Paradise. ITS BEEN STONE COLD DEAD EVERYWHERE ELSE!

      2. Greg J Preece

        Re: No.

        So Fifa 14 isn't being released for the PS2 then? A brand new game on a 13 year old console which has a successor already released....

        It certainly is. I happen to know one of the guys making it. I was as surprised as anyone else.

      3. Michael Habel Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: No.

        There was another Clown that mentioned FIFA14 by name, as an upcoming Title for the PlayStation2.

        So I'll propose the same question to you, as I did him... Just where the Hell would One pick-up a FIFA14 for the PS2 when PS2 IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT RETAIL?

        Does this mean I should pay the full price for a badly manhandled copy at Gamestop? Freakin' Conartists think they can pass such Crap off as new! Or do I wait a month for the Post do deliver it from Amazon?

        Nice argument, but I'd rather assume not trust everything I read on a Wiki Page.

      4. kb
        Windows

        Re: No.

        You can't compare Sony and MSFT, two totally different corporate cultures. Look at how quickly they pulled the plug on the original Xbox when X360 came out, while promising them backwards compatibility (that never came for the majority of games) while Sony kept putting out games for a couple of years.

        With MSFT once the new one comes out that is it, you won't hear a peep about the previous product because as far as they are concerned it doesn't exist. How much do you hear from them about Win 7? Zune? Winphone 7? as far as MSFT is concerned they just don't matter. Japanese corporate culture isn't quite as "quarterly" focused as the US corporate culture so as long as people are willing to buy a product they are willing to sell.

        I'm sure the OEMs stuck with all those copies of Win 8 would have liked MSFT to have a similar culture but alas it doesn't.

    5. asdf Silver badge

      Re: No.

      You knew this was coming when EA threw Microsoft under the bus (smartly as EA can't afford to burn the tiny amount of goodwill they have left with anyone). You just knew EA and Ubisoft were pushing Microsoft to do this and when the poop hit the fan they were like well we have no plans to use Microsoft's built in limitations and to limit customer choice in the future. LMAO.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        EA threw Microsoft under the bus?

        "You knew this was coming when EA threw Microsoft under the bus .. You just knew EA and Ubisoft were pushing Microsoft to do this and when the poop hit the fan they were like well we have no plans to use Microsoft's built in limitations and to limit customer choice in the future. LMAO".

        I don't understand:

        Where does it say EA and Ubisoft were pushing Microsoft?

        Why would EA and Ubisoft be pushing for this if they didn't have a post-poop plan?

        What is your post-poop plan?

        1. asdf Silver badge

          Re: EA threw Microsoft under the bus?

          >Where does it say EA and Ubisoft were pushing Microsoft?

          Those were the rumors going on behind the scenes. Microsoft looks even dumber if they were putting those restrictions in place without prompting from their 3rd party buddies.

          >Why would EA and Ubisoft be pushing for this if they didn't have a post-poop plan?

          Their post poop plan was to release a statement saying they didn't plan on restricting their games using Microsoft's DRM tools at this time (before U-turn) If Microsoft went ahead and took all the flack I am sure by release they would have been tightening the DRM on their titles as much as possible. They hate the resale market.

          >What is your post-poop plan?

          I am indifferent as hell to all the console makers. They are all going to be a big bag of hurt in their own ways.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Headmaster

    The 360 cannot live like XP did

    The 360 cannot live like XP has as Microsoft control the flow of games onto the console and they can kill it by switching off the Live service if they wish.

    Yes old games would still work but the flow of new titles would dry up and there would be no online capability.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: The 360 cannot live like XP did

      it would be commercial suicide to do that though.

      1. Jemma Silver badge

        Re: The 360 cannot live like XP did

        And this has stopped Microsoft when?

        Various MS departments have committed commercial suicide so many times they're on first name terms with Simon de Belleme.

        The bit I don't get is how they manage to survive their regular attempts at car park stuka-ing..

    2. Daniel B.

      Re: The 360 cannot live like XP did

      Yes, they could do that. But if the problem were that people aren't just buying the XBone, that might just piss those 360 owners enough to send 'em to the PS4. Hell, maybe even used PS3s just to give MS the finger!

      PS2 games were still being released years after the PS3 came out, and it is pretty possible they were being released because the PS2 had a larger install base than the new gen consoles for quite some time.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: The 360 cannot live like XP did

      It wouldn't be the first time the did that either! *cough* April 15, 2010... *cough*

      Last I heard the 360 should be up till 2017 at the latest...

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: The 360 cannot live like XP did

        MS could have killed XP by ceasing support/updates for that, too.

  3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

      "The U-turn raises more questions than it answers."

      Which are?

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. cjtcook

          Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

          You know it's funny, I used to feel the exact same way about Sony and the Sony BMG CD copy protection rootkit scandal of 2005-2007. Sony released these DRM CDs, with harmful software, without any foreknowledge to their customer base. So to look at MS's history without acknowledging Sony's is disingenuous.

        2. h3

          Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

          Those specific publishers (EA / Ubisoft) will have DRM either way. But their own DRM is likely to be more broken than the one Microsoft would have had. They have shown with the PC they cannot even get it working right most of the time.

          Sony alters their minds all the time as well they are very similar to Microsoft in that they are ok when they are not the leader but start screwing the customer over whenever they can.

          Thing about MS is they won't change something fundamental after a product is released whereas Sony will do anything at any time.

        3. Jamie Jones Silver badge

          Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

          "So many questions are raised. Is the U-Turn just PR smoke and mirrors? A sleight of hand after all the scandals? Is it there to distract from the Spying / NSA scandals which MS are entrenched in?"

          Ok, fair points, though really it's just one (albeit major) point :-)

          Wouldn't such a major policy shift mean the console could be described "not fit for purpose", and thus returnable? Do you think maybe MS are banking on once people buy the console, they won't even attempt to return it if MS move the goalposts back?

          1. Down not across Silver badge
            Black Helicopters

            Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

            Well looking at the history no such thing happened with Xbox 360. However can the same be said about PS3?

            Didn't think so.

        4. Kunari

          Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

          I'm sure once MS has convinced you to buy the console they'll begin to turn on the DRM again one piece at a time.

          1. Rob Moir

            Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

            And Sony couldn't change their minds about DRM too?

            If you're going to worry and refuse to buy a modern console over what might happen then the only logical outcome is to keep your money in your pocket. Actually not a bad thing.

            1. JDX Gold badge

              Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

              Yeah, the PS4 was rumoured to do the same things as the One, absolutely no reason they won't introduce similar stuff if it becomes seen as OK with the masses.

    2. andy mcandy
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: No - Kill The XBOX ONE with FIRE - don't reward DRM + Spying

      BOOBIES

  4. Tchou
    Coat

    Does failing to fail make it a success?

    1. wowfood

      No, it's just failception.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Nonsense, Microsoft has a very successful history of failure.

      And they are once again failing brilliantly.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fuck them.

    They shot themselves in the cock and they know it; their greed deserves punishing.

    Shame, I preferred xbox controllers and wasn't mightily keen on Sony's practises prior to this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fuck them.

      Sony have screwed up big time in the past too. PS3's scratching discs, PSN being taken offline due to hacking and poor security.

      Personally neither PS4 or an XBox One is a compelling choice.

      1. Babbit55

        Re: Fuck them.

        Don't forget this weeks PS3 patch that bricked machines! oh and you want Sony to fix it? thats £80 please!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fuck them.

        Yes, that's why I said I wasn't keen on Sony's practices prior to this.

        Learning from your mistakes is somewhat different to chancing your mitt and doing a u-turn when you start shitting bricks.

    2. dogged
      WTF?

      Re: Fuck them.

      " their greed deserves punishing"

      Even the most rabid of Sony shills - hi Barry! - couldn't possibly argue Xbox One's phonehome and limitations were about Microsoft's greed.

      Nope, those were for Mr EA Games esquire and nobody else. It made no sense for MS - they want to sell consoles. It made all the sense for EA - they want to stop you from owning your games.

      1. DrXym Silver badge

        Re: Fuck them.

        So called Mr EA could disable games even in the existing 360 / PS3 infrastructure e.g. by packing a registration code in the box which is needed to play the full game. This is precisely what the onerous "Project Ten Dollar" was about - screwing second hand disc owners for another $10 to unhobble the game they just bought, e.g. by unlocking multiplayer or to obtain the maps or expansions everyone else was playing.

        The difference here was Microsoft were building the infrastructure to support that model - unique serial codes embedded onto the disc, some way of reading them, an infrastructure for validating the code, presumably a payment system to "reactivate" the disc and so on.

        Maybe it was EA et al pushing this model but it's naive to think Microsoft were facilitating it from the goodness of their hearts. Somewhere along the line they'd be lining their wallets, skimming a % of the transaction required to reactivate the disk.

        Anyway, just because they've backed down doesn't mean EA or Ubisoft or Activision have. It's quite likely they'll carry on doing what they did with the 360 and PS3 - selling reactivation codes. Of course if the XBox One and / or PS4 does embed serial # on the disc, it practically invites this practice regardless of the words coming out of each console maker's mouths. When it starts up again Sony and MS will say they were just referring to their own games, not other publishers.

        1. dogged

          Re: Fuck them.

          Maybe it was EA et al pushing this model but it's naive to think Microsoft were facilitating it from the goodness of their hearts. Somewhere along the line they'd be lining their wallets, skimming a % of the transaction required to reactivate the disk.

          More likely something along the lines of "if you lock down our games from those filthy gamers, we'll give you longer exclusives".

          If MS were taking a commission it'd basically be becoming a digital Gamestation.

        2. Down not across Silver badge

          Re: Fuck them.

          Quite.

          Now, if they had the option of the online verification falling back to checking for physical disc (ie. if you have several games installed on HDD you wouldn't need to play disc roulette when switching between games if you had internet connectivity) in the absence of internet connectivity or because you had opted to do that in the settings they would have been able to get best of both worlds so to speak.

          Bottom line is that for Microsoft as a hardware manufacturer the DRM makes no odds, in fact it is more of a hindrance to have to bother with it. For Microsoft as software/games publisher it is a different story, and I agree that it is more than likely that EA (and possibly some other publishers) had their influence in pushing it and will no doubt continue to do so and try to extract every last penny out of each product.

      2. Daniel B.
        Facepalm

        Re: Fuck them.

        Even the most rabid of Sony shills - hi Barry! - couldn't possibly argue Xbox One's phonehome and limitations were about Microsoft's greed. ... sez the MS shill.

        Ironically, EA are dropping their own retarded attempt at screwing the second-hand games market: Online Pass is being phased out. Yes, publishers probably had a hand on MS trying to pull off this, but for it to work it would have to be implemented on all platforms. Anyone who isn't stupid would know that DRMing the shit out of a console will send people fleeing to the competition unless they are also locked down. By the time MS went on to go full retarded offering their horrible games lockdown, Sony had already stated that the "NFC chip disc lockdown" FUD wasn't true and that there would be no secondhand games lockdown.

        It would have been interesting though if the devs pushing for this DRM scheme were actually offering the X1 more exclusives. If it had gone through, those publishing houses would've had their exclusives crash & burn, as the thing would have not sold. Which is why I'm sad that MS did do a U-turn: all of those who pushed for this braindead, greedy scheme should have been punished by economic failure and bankruptcy. That would send a pretty strong message to anyone even trying to pull this off that its just not worth it.

        1. Kunari

          Re: Fuck them.

          I believe EA decided to drop the their program because the XBOne DRM system was coming. EA wanted some good PR to distance from all the bad PR over the last few years. Then comes XBOne with it's DRM, now that MS has pulled a u-turn it'll be interesting to see if EA doesn't pull one of their own.

        2. Wilseus

          Re: Fuck them.

          all of those who pushed for this braindead, greedy scheme should have been punished by economic failure and bankruptcy. That would send a pretty strong message to anyone even trying to pull this off that its just not worth it.

          I agree with everything you have said, except for this last bit. Having worked in the games industry in the past for a number of years, it's the devs and independent studios that would suffer here, not the directors in EA's boardroom.

          1. kb
            Unhappy

            Re: Fuck them.

            And whose fault is that? Moral of the story, don't work for scumbags. Plenty of room in the indie market, just ask runic who have been enjoying success with the torchlight series. Make a good product, treat the customers right, and you can just sell to use directly.

  6. g e
    Holmes

    And, of course, we trust Microsoft

    Not to turn DRM on later when they have your money.

    They obviously want it but they want launch sales more (this week, at least).

    Don't forget they've already demonstrated where they want the XBOX Vista to be at, even if they've U-Turned for now to avoid completely handing their market to SONY with little umbrellas and a cherry.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      @ge

      This.. I was thinking the same thing.

      Many people overlook something very nasty yet also very important with console gaming: stuff changes over time.

      I think that's a very dangerous (and sometimes unwanted) development, but seems to happen all over the place. My best (but dated) example is a PS3 game called "Gran Turismo 5". Its a very cool racing game, but when I bought it most races had a grid start, I loved it. In the mean time someone apparently didn't agree and now almost every race has a rolling start, something I really do not enjoy at all. Of course this happened half a year or so after purchase, so even if I wanted to (I don't) I couldn't get a refund.

      But the same thing happens on your consoles. Although it doesn't bother me at all the PS3 used to have an option which allowed people to install an "other" operating system. That functionality has been removed over time; even consoles can change.

      So before anyone starts countering your argument I think they should keep this in mind as well; with consoles you can't be sure that the thing you bought will continue working as you expected it to.

      1. fung0

        Re: @ge

        @ge said: "So before anyone starts countering your argument I think they should keep this in mind as well; with consoles you can't be sure that the thing you bought will continue working as you expected it to."

        When Microsoft 'upgraded' us to Windows Genuine Advantage, I turned off all auto-updates on my PC. I've never regretted it, and frequently congratulated myself on the horrors that have passed me by. On a console, alas, this is not an option.

        Darth Vader said: "I am altering our deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @ge

          "I've never regretted it, and frequently congratulated myself on the horrors that have passed me by"

          The rest of the world that your PC has been Spamming and DOSing for the last few years probably wouldnt want to congratulate your stupidity...

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: They obviously want it

      My industry sources (hem hem) lead me to believe that it is the big publishers that wanted this (DRM, no second hand sales), and that both Sony and MS had paid lip service to complying. Of course once Sony saw the shitstorm MS's announcement kicked up.....

    3. Kunari
      FAIL

      Re: And, of course, we trust Microsoft

      Exactly, they'll get the sales first then next June-or-so they'll start to slowly implement each of those DRM features one-at-a-time over the next few years. They'll use the excuse it was X-game title that "required" this change, wait for any backlash to quiet off then pop out the next round of DRM.

      Once MS has your money they'll turn on the DRM

    4. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: And, of course, we trust Microsoft

      Whilst I agree that turning back on is a distinct possibility I don't recall any (major) functionality having being removed from Xbox 360 during its lifetime.

      Sony on the other hand does have proven track record of doing so and pretty much saying "f u we don't care" when people complained.

      Considering games on PC are fair bit cheaper PC gaming is rather attractive option. Unless either console platform has an exclusive title that you feel you must have. In which case choice of console is kind of made based on that anyway.

  7. wowfood

    I've settled on PS4

    Microsoft are acting far too much like pancakes with the current console

    You always need to be online

    No you don't

    Yes you do

    No you don't

    Okay you have to connect once every 24 hours, and when you first install the game

    No you don't

    ????

    Same sequence of events elsewhere. PS4 may cut out a few features a few years down the line, but at least I know what's coming now.

    That and I'm not paying an extra £80 for a peripheral I have no intention of using.

    And lets face it, by the end of things, the two consoles have very similar hardware specs, with sony edging in front, very similar price points (if you buy move with your ps4) and pretty much the same architecture.

    If memory serves me from the devs I spoke to, generally for multiplatform games they design / test their games / engines with the console which was either first / most powerful / easiest to code for.

    However there's almost no difference between the two, PS4 edging ahead in power, ease of coding I can't comment but they're the same architecture so I'd imagine they're on similar ground here, and which one launches first which again, we don't have a definitive date for ps4. Q4 vs November, so who knows.

    Basically what I'm getting at is there's going to be little to no difference on third party games, and I imagine outside of existing licenses there will be fewer third party devs making exclusives since there's almost no benefit anymore (with different architectures it's easier to make a better game for a single platform, when they're all the same the only real reason is if the first party is paying you for it)

    The second deciding factor, online is also pretty level now. PS4 is a little cheaper, but we don't know what the quality will be like vs xOne.

    They both have a 3d camera peripheral with motion detection. Microsoft forces you to have it, sony doesn't. So if you want this that could be a deciding factor for you

    And of course the final point, first party titles. Which cnosole has the first party stuff you want to get the most? For me it's PS4, I love the look of beyond two souls, and kingdom hearts 3 (one of my fave game series) are PS4 exclusive, hence why it wins for me.

    Personally I don't get the whole fanboy arguement of "your console is shit, mines better" then again I'll happily admit I'm a bit of a sony enthusiast, I use that word to differentiate between fanboys since the fanboys tend to rant and rave about how they're so much better.

    Summary note, third party titles will be pretty much identical per system, ps3 is cheaper and a bit more powerful, but the same price when you include the camera, buy the console with the first party titles you want the most, perhaps the console most of your friends are buying so you can share games since, y'know, you can now.

    Also sorry if this rambles from point to point, people keep talking to me.

    1. Eradicate all BB entrants

      Re: I've settled on PS4

      Kingdom Hearts 3 is not a PS4 exclusive, Sony told a flat out lie on that one. Will be available for Xbox One as well.

      I am with you on the first party titles line tho, as a petrolhead I really did enjoy Gran Turismo, I bought a PS2 just for it, but it became too much like work to play it and after trying Forza 3 I bought a 360. After seeing the woes my brother had with GT5 I don't think I will ever go back to it (Neither will he as we have built up a nice Forza club/clan)

      But the DRM is a publishers choice, and MS have said all along their titles would not have been affected, it would be the publishers decision. Sony know this, yet they still make pronouncements that it will never happen on their system. I hope The Register will revisit all off this 6-12 months after launch to see the state of play, and if they do I am sure that they will find the PS4 users have been burned a lot more than the Xbox ones.

  8. Matthew Smith
    Happy

    Would the 360 being another XP be a problem?

    Console developers have generally made a loss on the console and a profit on the games. If Microsoft could continue to sell the games without having to make the XBOne, I'm sure they'd be very happy.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. tsdadam

        Re: Would the 360 being another XP be a problem?

        "unless they're happy to get out of the struggling console market"

        The console market is too important to them. Ignoring hardware profits/losses in the first few years, as the hardware starts expensive to make and gradually lowers, the money's in the games.

        Worldwide console games sales were ~$25B last year, anticipated to be $26B this year, and then expected to rise to over over $27.5B the next year. Given the three-way split the money is going at the moment, I'd say that's a pie they'd like a piece of.

        Conversely, PC games (even with the advent of SteamBox et al) are expected to stay flat at around $7B for the next few years.

        "Gaming is growing and it will continue to grow at exceptional rates compared to other entertainment categories”

        source: http://goo.gl/XNWNV

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        2. h3

          Re: Would the 360 being another XP be a problem?

          There are too many external factors messing with the console market.

          Microsoft is not expecting overall to turn a profit until 2020 (From the whole xbox thing).

          Sony wanted to force blu ray through no matter what.

          I hate Sony much more than MS I don't particularly like the entertainment part of MS but if Sony starts winning they will become much better for a time.

          Gaming is growing but doesn't matter to me there is less games than ever other than indies I actually want to play. Nintendo is becoming more cautious I will probably get a few games I want them them within the next few years.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

    Namely, they are still region locking games.

    There is nothing to stop them implemting this after launch and after they got my money.

    The Kinect spying all the time is concerning.

    The Kinect licensing content by the number of users watching is disgraceful

    The Kinect scanning my room for logos to sent me adverts is also disgraceful.

    It's also lower spec and more expensive than the PS4, and looks ugly as sin. I also have no faith in Microsoft making reliable hardware, and no faith they understand or even care about gamers anymore.

    For those reasons - I'M out. Ordered my PS4 from Argos this morning.

    1. g e
      WTF?

      W T F ??

      "The Kinect licensing content by the number of users watching is disgraceful"

      This new learning amazes me, what is it ?

      Yeah, the hardware.. 20% fail rate on the '360 IIRC ?? That's massive and MS aren't a learning-from-mistakes kinda company as this latest U-turn amply demonstrates. Right second time isn't good enough.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: W T F ??

        The Xbox 360 failure rate is closer to 50 percent.

      2. TheVogon Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: W T F ??

        "The Kinect licensing content by the number of users watching is disgraceful"

        No - it's great for those with have a brain cell. Just stick photo of one person in front of Kinect camera...Or become members of the Klu Klux Klan...Get cheaper rentals

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: W T F ??

          Is it mandatory to use Kinect? Can't you just not plug it in?

      3. kb
        Meh

        Re: W T F ??

        MSFT filed for a patent last year to allow channels to charge by the user based on how many the Kinect can "see" in a room, which is what the other poster is talking about. will they do it? Well considering they have ignored their userbase when it comes to win 8 and probably would have with the XB1 if the PS4 preorders hadn't shot through the roof after their little "reveal" I'd say the odds are probably goo that they will at least try.

    2. Darren Barratt
      Windows

      Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

      It won't even be a change in policy to start with. They'll just encourage the online play big hitters to continue with "online passes" with their software, until it becomes the norm. I note that Sony will also allow this.

      To be honest, I've yet to see anyting about either new console that makes them a compelling purchase over the old consoles.

      1. g e
        Meh

        Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

        I'll likely buy a next gen console this Xmas though the only thing I know for sure if I get one at all is it's not going to be an XBOX Vista. Probably not a Nintendo.

        Not even a PS4 if they don't release the fecker in time for Xmas - will have spent the money elsewhere by then - is it still the 31st Dec for that???

    3. Pie

      Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

      They announced that games on the Xbox One would not be region locked.

    4. Oninoshiko
      Thumb Down

      Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

      MS announced, at this announcement that they will not be region locking games either.

      1. jnemesh

        Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

        Really? I read the official post from Microsoft and it didn't address either the Kinect or the region locking. Source and link please?

        1. Autonomous Cowherd

          Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

          http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

          Region locking: 4th Paragraph from the end.

          No mention of the Kinect though.

    5. Captain DaFt

      Re: PS4 all the way for me. There are still too many problems with the Xbone

      " There is nothing to stop them implemting this after launch and after they got my money. "

      Unfortunately, the same applies to Sony, doesn't it? Sell you the unit, then change it to work the way they want it to afterwards.

      That's why I'm waiting a couple of years to see who does what, before I buy, (The latest, hottest game ain't really a must-have for me.)

      In the meantime, I'm settling for new desktop.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmm

    Could this be a deliberate attempt to stir up the media, get more people talking about the console, and thus get more people learning about XB1?

    Switch the DRM off etc, and wow, some big barriers to the console are gone, and even MORE people are aware of the XB1...

    or am I being too cynical?

    1. CCCP

      Re: Hmm

      @AC 12:46

      That would require extraordinary levels of internal cohesion and titanium cojones. Neither of which MS has imho. Corporates just don't gamble like that.

      So yes, you have been reading too many Crichton novels.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Noticeable lack of Nintendo

    Seems to be a 2 way fight for the next gen hardcore gamers. Have Nintendo dropped out of it and into the lego / mario stuff for good now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Noticeable lack of Nintendo

      Nintendo concentrate on what they always have done, making incredibly fun games with their established IPs and occasionally trying something different (which if successful becomes another franchise). They haven't played the "most powerful console" game since the N64 lost to the PS1.

      The problem is really more to do with the "hardcore" gamers who just can't bring them selves to play something as cute looking as Mario even if it's a double-hard bastard in terms of actually gameplay.

      1. Kevin 6

        Re: Noticeable lack of Nintendo

        I find the bigger issue with nintendo is the 3rd party developers seem to try and set them up to fail.

        Lets look at the Wii U a good chunk of the 3rd party games are ones that were out on the PC(at $15), 360 or PS3 for months. Then developers go OHH THE GAME DIDN'T SELL SO THERE IS NO MARKET ON IT CAUSE PPL DIDN'T BUY IT FOR $60 ON THE WII U SO WERE NOT MAKING ANYTHING MORE

        Or if the game comes out on all 3 at the same time the Wii U one seems buggier, and never gets a patch. Or the patches, and DLC comes months later after the 360/ps3's did.

        Then there were a few 3rd party games I wanted to buy, but after reading player reviews which listed bugs they were encountering(some game breaking) with them, or how the games didn't even seem finished I wouldn't pay $10 for the half assed game let alone $60.

        It almost makes me wonder if sony, and MS paid 3rd party companies to screw over Nintendo on 3rd party support by only releasing pure crap on it

      2. Greg J Preece

        Re: Noticeable lack of Nintendo

        Nintendo concentrate on what they always have done, making incredibly fun games with their established IPs and occasionally trying something different (which if successful becomes another franchise). They haven't played the "most powerful console" game since the N64 lost to the PS1.

        The problem is really more to do with the "hardcore" gamers who just can't bring them selves to play something as cute looking as Mario even if it's a double-hard bastard in terms of actually gameplay.

        Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

        Nintendo keep re-hashing their established IPs and alienating anyone who doesn't like playing the same thing over and over. I owned every single Nintendo console up until the Wii U, and if it ever bothers to get a library, I'll eventually get one because I go where the games are. That said, I've had an increasing dislike of Ninty's approach since the Wii came out. It's a dreadful Gamecube mod, with terrible controllers, and the library of games is a cesspit at best. I bought one for the arcade ports, and beyond those I haven't seen the need to pick up and play anything else, except Mario Galaxy (because someone at Nintendo made a mistake and made a Mario game that was genuinely new and inventive).

        Oh, incidentally, the newer SMB games are trash. Slower, clunkier, more boring versions of Super Mario World.

        My PS3, on the other hand, continues to get love. And before you start on with your hardcore gamer stereotypes, I use it to play Okami (like Zelda, but about a thousand times superior), Tokyo Jungle, Child of Eden, Sly Cooper, etc. Sure, I also have Need For Speed installed, but that's the beauty of a system that doesn't identify with hipsters and the too-cool-for-school crowd; I can have both.

        If I want to start up God of War and rip someone's testicles off, I can. But I can equally surf onto the store and download something like The Unfinished Swan, or Echochrome, or Rayman, or Ico, or Shadow of the Colossus, etc, etc, etc. Pretending that the other consoles do nothing but explosions and guns is fanboyism.

        If being in the Nintendo camp means I have to be happy playing the same series of games again and again, then I'd rather hang out elsewhere, where I can get the full range of games, and play them on a console with superior controls and online services.

        And my favourite platform for gaming? Still the PC, which I imagine will only get better now.

  12. Dave Stevens

    Wait, PS3 scratching discs?

    Never heard of this one. This is a common Xbox problem but the bluray discs are coated and almost unscratchable.

    1. Tom 260

      Re: Wait, PS3 scratching discs?

      Agreed on the console as the culprit (the general story seems to be someone knocking their 360 over from the vertical position, and getting a nice set of deep circular scores as the whole laser assembly hits the disc), but BluRay discs are just as easily scratched outside of a console as DVDs - one of the reasons I've long given up on renting games/films by post is the amount I've sent back as unplayable.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wait, PS3 scratching discs?

        That's nonsense. The Blu-Ray protection is REALLY good.

        I rent films from Lovelim. Been through hundreds of movies. The Blu-Ray ones are always mint and always play perfect. The DVD's are a right mess. Usually jump.

  13. trackercanada

    PRISM anyone

    Remember they have a device that can watch and hear you. They have a cloud which exists in the states (not that it matters much where it was).

    PRISM anyone?

    There was a criminal is the US that made the mistake of bringing his phone to a meeting.

    The FBI turned the microphone on remotely even though the phone was off.

    Now they back-track but their stripes have already been shown.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: There was a criminal is the US

      Nice story.

      Until you specify names, places, dates and/or online newspaper references, it's just an urban legend.

      Not saying the FBI couldn't turn on a mobile phone's micro - just that if you have a proper reference, then post it instead of promoting heresay.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its all about games

    I am not so sure Microsoft where shotting themselves in the foot with the DRM and restrictions on playing second hand games. Ultimately We buy consoles because of the games they support, it does not matter if you have a great console but no games (PS Vita anyone).

    With these restrictions Microsoft was courting the game developers by reducing the developers two great hates. Piracy and second hand sales. They massively improve the revenue stream for a developers by reducing the liklihood of illegal iusage and they extend the life of sales for the game where the revenue comes to them the producers. Currently games sales 3 months after a release are almost neglibile because most people will go buy it in the second hand shop. Now those people will have to go download it and pay the people the produced it.

    PS4 would have none of these controls so it would have made it less attractive to develop for. I think longer term this has the ability to push more revenue to those people who build the games, which has to be a good thing as it will de-risk the whole process. instead of the same constant remakes of the same game we might start to see more original development as the developer has more opportunity to make the profits they need to survive. It is also good for long term support of games, better and more regular DLC.

    I know the view will be that the companies will just make more profit. Maybe but I think the market will regulate itself. I have only so much to spend, currently I will pay £40 for one of the big budget games knowing I will sell or trade it 6 weeks later for £20, overall it will have cost £20. Now instead of getting it day 1, I might wait for a couple of months until it is has dropped to £20. Or even better with more of the revenue stream coming to them it will get released at £20 or £25 quid. Just look at stream and WoW on the PC. I bought CIV 5 Gold edition on Stream last week for less than a £10. That is alot of game for not much money.

    I think MS was actually right, they problem is they did not communicate it properly and got alot of flack for the idiot fanbois and have paniced and backed down. They need to deveop a little more spine.

    1. HamsterNet
      Facepalm

      Re: Its all about games

      What planet are you on? £25 for a new game! They will be £45 at new and will be £45 at a year old, maybe a drop to £40 after that when the new respawn of the same game with new maps is released. With no second hand sales all console games are permanent AAA new titles.

      I fully expect the games to go up with the next consoles, like they have with every console generation.

      Are you ready for £60/£80 games as standard + day 1 DLC content.

    2. Greg J Preece

      Re: Its all about games

      I know the view will be that the companies will just make more profit. Maybe but I think the market will regulate itself. I have only so much to spend, currently I will pay £40 for one of the big budget games knowing I will sell or trade it 6 weeks later for £20, overall it will have cost £20. Now instead of getting it day 1, I might wait for a couple of months until it is has dropped to £20. Or even better with more of the revenue stream coming to them it will get released at £20 or £25 quid. Just look at stream and WoW on the PC. I bought CIV 5 Gold edition on Stream last week for less than a £10. That is alot of game for not much money.

      You're ignoring the gigantic issue with that argument: Steam has competition on PC. When they didn't, the discounts didn't happen as often and weren't nearly as deep. These days, I must have accounts on at least a dozen different stores. There are game blogs and entire websites dedicated to comparing game prices for the system, and finding me the best deal.

      On PS3/Xbox/Wii, you have one store, and nowhere else to go. You buy the games at the price they set, or piss off. There's no incentive whatsoever for the store to lower prices, so they won't. The DLC for Burnout Paradise, for example, has *never* come down in price, despite that game being pretty old at this point. New games are coming out on PSN 20-30 quid more than the stores are selling them for, and you think they'll reduce prices? I think not.

    3. Daniel B.

      Re: Its all about games

      With these restrictions Microsoft was courting the game developers by reducing the developers two great hates. Piracy and second hand sales.

      Piracy is understandable ... but that was far better covered with the PS3. Even here in Mexico, where piracy is widespread, the PS3 has been the one console where most games are acquired by actually buying them. The 360 is the one that's still chock full of pirated games.

      And second hand sales is only a developer-side hate. As MS found out, gamers are far more pissed off at draconian attempts to kill second hand sales, and they're the ones who actually pay for games. Those who had wooed MS and made their games XBoned exclusive releases would have seen their games fare far worse than the usual second-hand-traded games they currently have. Game publishers will smell the blood and sometimes even remove the "exclusiveness" of certain games if they realize their "exclusive" platform is going down the drain. Remember Resident Evil Code Veronica?

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Its all about games

        I fully expect the games to go up with the next consoles, like they have with every console generation.

        What planet are you from? Games used to cost £60 new and then was when £60 was more than it is now... £40 was standard 10 years ago.

  15. cjtcook
    Thumb Up

    Too big for its britches

    I'm happy for Microsoft's reversal. When the PS3 was first released it had no concerns for the competition and came out with an overly expensive console while also experimenting with DRM and rootkits with its music CDs. Now they've released their lowest priced console to date, once figuring in the price of inflation, with a strong DRM free commitment.

    Likewise with this release it seemed that Microsoft had no regard for its competition and I'm glad its taken this U-turn now; because frankly when the gaming industry doesn't have viable competition, the console makers become tyrants.

    1. h3

      Re: Too big for its britches

      I don't mind the console makers being tyrants if it means they refuse to let poor quality stuff on their platform but that doesn't seem to be the case. (Hudson (The NEC Avenue arcade ports always played exactly like the machine they were copying) / Nintendo of old were like this and for me it was a good thing).

      They should be providing the games on flash or ssd's in this day and age. They charge a premium price but don't provide a premium product at all.

      1. Daniel B.
        Meh

        Re: Too big for its britches @h3

        I disagree on the tyrant stance being good. Nintendo didn't shave away "bad" games, they shaved away most competition in favor of their own content. That's why some of the big publishers started creating shell companies (Konami had ULTRA and others) to sidestep on their "5 games per year" restriction for third-party games. Adding to that, the draconian Nintendo Censorship board, which seemed to have censorship standards based on "what can an 8 year old play?". One of the few weird exceptions would be Monster Party during that era.

        Hell, for many years I gravitated more on Mac/PC gaming because the games were much better. It took the Playstation to finally break away from the heavy censorship era, though by then Nintendo had stopped being so heavy-handed on the censorship (only that can explain DOOM on the SNES.)

    2. CCCP

      Re: Too big for its britches - whaaa

      I read that as bitches and got interested...

  16. Anne-Lise Pasch

    Visual Studio 2012

    Actually, Microsoft re-added the Visual Studio 2010 Blue Theme in VS2012 Update 2. Just saying.

  17. Phil Miesle
    Devil

    Exception: the Ribbon

    The (maligned) Ribbon was a huge improvement in Office 2007. Sure it took a little getting used to, but once you said "pretend I know nothing" everything became so much more intuitive, and I discovered features that had long-existed in Office but which were buried behind three menu layers.

    So, while they got it terribly wrong in Win8 Metro, and XBOne was clearly not paying attention to their core market...sometimes the "slam it down their throats" approach works.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Exception: the Ribbon

      "The (maligned) Ribbon was a huge improvement in Office 2007. Sure it took a little getting used to...."

      Happy for you that you had the leisure time to explore it. In busy environments where I work, users want a built-in Toggle button to switch between menus and ribbon. Why? Because some users have 3rd party tools to hack-back the menus, while others are stuck on the ribbon. Its a pain that a universal solution isn't in place. When a user needs to login at another machine its a crapshoot as to whether their Office of choice is present. Of course, the reason a toggle button is not present is M$ lock-in. They don't want users to switch between them, they want every user, new and old buying the new Office suite. That's not helpful!

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Happy for you that you had the leisure time to explore it.

        What a brain-dead argument. Once upon a time people moved from typewriters to computers and this took a lot of getting used to. The previous poster said sometimes something is worth having, even if it requires acclimatisation, and you pour scorn on that. With your attitude, your company would still be on typewriters because your poor staff can't cope.

    2. Grogan

      Re: Exception: the Ribbon

      The "slam it down their throats" approach to the ribbon resulted in people perceiving a free, open source office suite as being more like "Microsoft Office" than Microsoft Office itself is these days.

      Yes, I have seen that mindset hundreds of times, with real users in my computer service business. I have taken considerable money out of Microsoft's (and other software vendors') mouth by showing people alternatives. Not just home users either. Most people hate that ribbon interface, just like they hate Windows 8 Metro (the original name for that "train wreck")

      Gamers hate the Xbox One already and it doesn't even exist yet.

    3. Daniel B.

      Re: Exception: the Ribbon

      The Ribbon is only marginally useful in the OSX version ... mostly because the Office for Mac edition still has the menus and thus you can ignore the Ribbon (or use it for the few power features that actually show up there), and that the Ribbon doesn't waste as much screen real estate as its Windows counterpart.

      At least you do agree that TIFKA Metro is a piece of shit that should be dragged to the woods and shot.

  18. Lockwood

    Devil's Advocate

    "Microsoft's got a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality. On the one hand it can be intensely pragmatic and rational - Windows 7 - but when it's got a new idea between its teeth that's when the beast takes over and when common sense is jettisoned - Windows 8."

    Or Vista, the most loathed thing since ME and before 8.

    Which laid the foundation for 7.

    Sometimes these polar opposite views come together in ways you don't predict.

  19. Tom 35 Silver badge

    What?

    "In May Redmond revealed big changes to Windows 8 that increasingly look like a step-away from the all-or-nothing march into the Metro touch UI."

    No they didn't. Not-Metro is still there, they just put some more lipstick on the pig. More colours, animated backgrounds, a start button - that takes you to not-metro.

    I expect this xbox story, once you get the fine print will just be another "start button".

  20. Lamont Cranston
    Joke

    Microsoft can't very well go with the

    "the technology is right it's just the users who are wrong" approach - Apple are very protective of their patents.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Microsoft can't very well go with the

      Anyone who works directly with customers knows that very often the customer IS wrong :)

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Did DRM start to mean something else?

    Because I am sure that DRM is still there... on all consoles. Otherwise pirating games would be easy!

    They removed the requirement for online activation and 24 hours check-in... the DRM is still there and will continue to be there.

  22. Paul Shirley

    so much wrong

    1: There is no Win8 U-turn. They've fixed some very superficial design errors in the desktop UI while continuing at full speed with pushing Metro. They still think they can bludgeon it into success, that the users are the problem not the OS and Microsofts marketing plans.

    2: Console users are quite happy to switch platform between console generations and any that defect to Sony this time are just as likely to come back at the next console generation. They aren't lost for life, lost for the life of this particular console - maybe. The lack of backward compatibility means a clean slate this time and you can discount brand loyalty almost completely because of it. That's why Microsoft had to override their natural instinct to blame the user and actually give the appearance of listening.

    XBone and PS4 are damn near identical on the coding side. Expect fewer genuine platform exclusives and even less reason to stay loyal.

  23. bern_ya

    C'MON MAN....

    shouldnt it be XBONE instead of 360 in the title....? a clockwise rotation will allow you to tighten up a bit...jus saying

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/graphics/icons/comment/fail_32.png

    1. Lockwood
      FAIL

      Re: C'MON MAN....

      XP: The old version of Windows that people want to cling on to to avoid Windows 8

      360: The old version of XBox that people want to cling on to to avoid XBONE

      Title seems legit.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft took a big gamble

    when it switched to the PC architecture, since not being able to provide backwards compatibility opened it up to a greater risk of losing customers to Sony. It no doubt figured it could counter this with a huge array of launch titles, and that probably would have worked, had they not initially stumbled at their pre-E3 reveal. A previous blunder by Adam Orth on Twitter had put people in a suspicious frame of mind, and Microsoft's concentration on TV, sports, Kinect etc. without adequately addressing unanswered questions about DRM didn't help.

    By the time E3 arrived, DRM had evolved into a major issue - one that Microsoft singularly failed to dispel. The way was then open for Sony to apply the coup de gras by confirming that they would retain the same policies that they had for the PS3. A viral video on that subject was icing on the cake.

    The resulting flood of pre-orders for the PS4 no doubt had Microsoft re-evaluating its tactics, if not its long term strategy. Currently, when directly asked, they have failed to confirm that the new policies are permanent. Make of that what you will.

  25. Potemkine Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Nuremburg Rally

    = Nuremberg Rally?

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obvious

    You don't have to be online but only for downloaded games.

    Phase out disks

    Also, they were going to offer online trading of downloaded games but have now said they are not.

    Both u-turns covered

    Not exactly rocket surgery is it

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    PS4

    Yup - lost a potential XboxOne owner here too.

    PS4 seems a likely bet although I will not be buying on Day 0 launch - I think I will wait until January/February at least to see it settle and see if any DRM or issues filtered through on that console also.

  28. This post has been deleted by its author

  29. This post has been deleted by its author

  30. William Hinshaw
    FAIL

    Still the Spy Box for the NSA and pervs

    Well you still have to run the NSA spy cam and mic. With no way to run the Spy Box without the Kinect plugged in and no way to be sure it is turned off you know that the NSA will be viewing and pervs will be recording and it will probably be NSA pervs doing the recording.

    MS is still a hard fail to me. I don't want any information of any kind being fed back to MS for any fucking reason. I don't care if it is "To tailor your experience based on your profile" I don't want any fucking adds of any kind. I don't want any of my information being collected by MS as they have proven time and a again that they can't keep their shit secured. They can't keep their data secured (look at their cloud fiascoes) .

    MS can just take the Spy Box as it is now and cram it WAY up. I'll get a Wii U and a PS4 and the cash that was going to a XBox will instead go to a Titan card for my PC.

    And Metro would still make it horse shit anyways.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Still the Spy Box for the NSA and pervs

      I don't want any of my information being collected by MS as they have proven time and a again that they can't keep their shit secured.

      [...]

      I'll get a [...] PS4

      Because Sony are known for data security?

  31. jch8113
    FAIL

    Big Whoop

    Dear Microsoft/Xbox One: Oh praise be to you great one for finally relenting after a hailstorm of protest since your unveiling for ALLOWING us mere mortals to continue to do with our video games what we've been able to do since 1985 (i.e. buying/selling/trading the games we bought and paid for as well as play our games offline for longer than 24hrs at a time) even though Sony was going to allow us to continue to do so from the start. Once again, thank you all powerful as MERCIFUL Microsoft/Xbox One for bestowing upon us our given rights that we've been utilizing since 1985! Praise be to you powerful one.... Eat crap.

  32. Jess

    XBox 180

    I really hope this name sticks, XBone was funny, But XBox 180 is funnier.

    1. Piro
      Thumb Up

      Re: XBox 180

      Well, they each had their place:

      Xbone was because Xbox One was clearly a boner (in the sense of a gaffe, or was boned by Sony, take your pick);

      Xbox 180 is now the new name simply because it represents the giant U-Turn Microsoft have slowly rigged into action. I wonder if they've been taking cues from the UK's current government. Always doing 180s..

      But yes, from now on, it should definitely be referred to as the Xbox 180..

    2. Daniel B.
      Joke

      Re: XBox 180

      It is XBoned, as in 'boned' by Sony.

      At least if the XBox 180 moniker sticks, it will finally make that 360 joke accurate.

      - Why is the XBox1 called the XBox 180?

      - Because when you see it, you do a 180 and walk away!

      (Though the original joke would work if you're moonwalking away.)

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will the 'Xbox 180' be the greatest gaming experience ever?

    Hollywood Blockbusters

    Are we moving into a golden era of gaming? The Xbox1 and the PS4 will have next-gen eye watering graphics, but there's huge pressure on the console makers to push big Hollywood blockbuster titles like COD or Halo. Both last releases had few fresh ideas in their multiplayer maps! I've 20 minutes to kill, what'll I play? Bioshock Infinite, Dishonored, Hitman Absolution or Far Cry 3? No, its back to the old reliables: Far Cry 2, Cod4 or Cod2 on PC! Why? Because there's no extra charges for online multiplayer! User maps extend the life of the game, the game engines still look and play good and they support mods.

    Creativity:

    Unfortunately many game studies folded in recent years. So while it looked like a boom time for gaming the financial grim reaper came calling and the net effect is there's less innovation occurring in the big-title studios. Take Forza Horizons for example. Compare it to Driver-SF or Forza 4 and Horizons is not progress! And Forza 5 allows the game to play by itself- WTF? Overall this pressure to push mega-releases ala Michael Bay like Transformers of the Caribbean sequels, means creativity will continue to fall off a cliff. Therefore innovation in gaming will suffer, and we the gamers will suffer. GTA V and Watch Dogs might herald new ideas, but I'm doubtful. For starters I can't understand why the GTA team didn't try a new theatre i.e. an Italian, French or Asian inspired open world, instead its west coast CA yet again!

    Social Gaming

    The demographic of this genre leans heavily towards the ladies i.e. the average Zynga user. The social ideas behind the games are clever. But Pinkus helped kill the genre and now he's turning it into a casino?

    Mobile versus Monster

    I'm a huge fan of monster-sized TV's for gaming. 100 inch TV's are almost here and wall sized are on the horizon. Unfortunately a lot of Indie developers are being forced to go small screen to stay in business, helped by the crushing Hollywood system. The small-screen kills my enthusiasm in gaming. I want detail.. scale... the latest graphics, not something my old C64 can do. But its easier to have Ad driven business models on mobile. Pity, as this creativity could be better applied to the large-screen. Perhaps Valve will bring a compromise, and PC gaming will come back in vogue should the consoles fail to deliver....

    The Future

    Cloud gaming. The big title makers are proposing organically evolving games part-rendered on server farms on the back-end. What that says to me is that every game could be a potential MMOG. Do I want that? In a non-everyone-has-fibre world- No I don't! Why pay the same cash and get a sub par game experience versus someone on fibre in South Korea... Moreover I'd rather pay for the latest graphics GPU and leverage that to play the game alone, so that even if I'm offline the gameplay is still outstanding. But there is this push to the Cloud, the market is pressing on, and the tide looks irresistible....

    1. Kevin 6
      Thumb Up

      Re: Will the 'Xbox 180' be the greatest gaming experience ever?

      Overall this pressure to push mega-releases ala Michael Bay like Transformers of the Caribbean sequels, means creativity will continue to fall off a cliff.

      You get a thumbs up just for that line alone as it almost made me need a new keyboard just from imagining what it would be like.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Digital lock-in

    I would compare the Xbox 360 to Internet Explorer 6 more than WIndows XP.

    The problem a number of Xbox 360 owners are facing now is that they've purchased many games through digital channels and these games have no resale value at all.

    With previous generations once the machine was done with it could be traded, complete with games for a tidy sum to put towards the new system. With this generation because the games are all tied to an account all you can get for your 360 is maybe 30$ if you have no disc based software.

    Customers therefore have a choice, they can either keep their 360 and digital games, or sell it as a plain box with no software, unless they want to give their account away at the same time. They're locked to the platform, and can't use it to generate the funds to buy a new one.

    For customers who purchased mainly disc based games this isn't an issue, but for customers who bought into the whole digital thing early they're now seeing the true cost of it. A number of friends are now wondering what on this green earth they were thinking when they bought their games as downloads and will be doing everything they can to avoid making that mistake again and buy reliable disc based media in the future even if they have a higher initial cost.

    Despite the U-turn the already existing digital lock-in on the 360 is going to be an issue for Microsoft, at least until the price of the unit drops significantly to the point where people can afford to buy it without trading in their old systems.

    You can't blame Microsoft for the inability to run older games, the radical hardware changes ensure that isn't possible, you can blame the industry for pushing downloadable rights locked titles as the future and that problem still has no solution and significantly increases the initial cost of moving from a 360 to a newer platform

  35. teddyspaghetti

    Goodbye consoles.

    Since having the PS3 and 360, I have personally moved to computer gaming and Steam. Now, with computer games you definitely cannot purchase and play a used game as the product key is only usable once. And that's not considering pirating. So really that's nothing too new for me. But on PC's I like being able to do WHATEVER I WANT without paying Micro$oft for their poor Gold account that I never use. Last.fm, Netflix, hell just about everything requires a Gold account. RIDICULOUS! I can do all that AND online gaming for FREE on Steam/PC.

    Why would anyone even want a console now? With all this bickering and trying to squeeze their customers any way they can. I can't remember any time Steam tried to screw me over. I'm rambling, but maybe that's what Microsoft is getting at. Trying to link games to your email as Steam does.

    If Microsoft really wants to get ahead of the game with console gaming then this is what they need to do:

    Invent and release a computer with modularized interchangeable parts.

    What do I mean? Think the "expansion pack" as vRAM for the Nintendo 64, people were upgrading the memory in their n64 consoles without even realizing/comprehending it. Micro$oft needs to sell a computer with, say, an Intel Core i7 that plugs into the console like a lego block and is rebranded as the Xbox doohickey [processor model]. Same with the RAM and Video chip/card. Then let it begin.

    Just as the N64 did, as time progresses people will need to upgrade their consoles to play newer games. "you need x model of [Vid, CPU, RAM] to play this game." At the same time have their own Steam style market, stop charging to do ANYTHING online, and they'll be set. Maybe charge for multiplayer and that's it (mainly geared towards the Call of Duty jugheads.)

    This way they can start porting PC games interchangeably as well. Instead of having HIGHLY proprietary consoles with exclusive hardware to program for, the usage of common computer parts would help out the entire gaming community, as well as ease up the load on programmers and allow them to have a wider selection.

    A computer gaming platform under the guise of a console, and people won't even realize the difference. Still proprietary, yet not as much as these poor consoles that were released at E3.

    Basically if Sony and Micro$oft is competing to 'control the living room' then they should ideally have an uphill battle against the Home and Theater PC [HTPC] which can be equipped with voice recognition, gaming video cards, etc etc.

    Just my .02

  36. Confuciousmobil
    Pint

    Looks like...

    Looks like I'll be the only one buying an XBone then?

  37. Defiant
    Stop

    Don't be silly

    Hopefully people wont fall for this u-turn..................remember its there and can be activated at a later date!

  38. Flashy Red
    FAIL

    Yeah, yeah, yeah ... whatever

    And when you [Microsoft] have finally managed to corral all of those 360 users into the new technology pen, the gate will be slammed shut and you will do what you wanted to do in the first place. Fuck off!

  39. johnbtimmons

    Missed Opportunity

    Microsft have missed an opportunity here. They could have backed themselves up and really presented an alternative option to the PS4. Instead we have more of the same, no real difference between the two and a distinct lack of innovation in these new consoles. Interesting read http://wjminnovate.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/microsofts-missed-opportunity/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Missed Opportunity

      Disagree. One of the key arguments from the story in your link, is that the M$ model would have meant more money flowing back to Developers and that would in-turn lead to fresh IP. But games have become so Hollywood Blockbuster sequel like, and so damn similar of late, that I think we'd just get more of the same. By that I mean more cut-scenes, bland FPS, QTE gameplay, on-a-rail spin-offs but few fresh ideas... The advocate of your argument will just ship us more 'Gears of War' sequels!

      For instance the games that are most likely to be returned and sold in the second hand market are actually big-titles like Halo and Cod. Both last releases had few fresh ideas in their multiplayer maps! So more money going back to these developers will just mean more drudge, because there's huge pressure to push mega-releases ala Michael Bay like Transformers of the Caribbean sequels. This means creativity will continue to fall off a cliff. Sure, there may be some pretty titles but ultimately many will simply be on-a-rail Bioshock Infinite clones and other UDK kit-games.

      Instead what we need and want is innovation and fresh ideas in gaming. I think we need to support more crowd-funded smaller game studios for that. But until we stop buying the Michael Bay sequels and insist on more innovative games, the bigger guys won't start to take notice. ..

  40. It's a me.
    Happy

    Re; wowfood

    Just want to point ouit that Kingdom Hearts 3 (and FFXV) are no longer exclusives and will appear on both systems.

    1. h3

      Re: Re; wowfood

      Means they will be both garbage. (I have the 3DS Kingdom Hearts and I hate it more than any game I have paid full price for in a long time).

      Final Fantasy the name is all that is left (And it is worthless now). The only good part of Square Enix only caters to Japan. The international part of it is an absolute waste of time. Think the good people from it are at an obscure Nintendo owned studio.

      Dragon Quest is much better dunno about the MMO one.

  41. Duffaboy
    Holmes

    I was right on DRM now watch for price match

    Sony will still kick Ms ass until it drops the console price (which it will), My last post on DRM "Need for Speed Handbrake Turn" will prove me right. The 180 will be the Betamax of the console world unless they Microsoft shape up quick.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sony

    Wanted it too. You mugs.

  43. Jim84

    Xbox One still needs a price drop of $50 from $499 to $449, a memory speed bump from DDR3 to GDDR5, and the option for indies to self publish games and updates without fees or QA. Then it will be competitive with the PS4.

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