back to article Sony sucker-punches Xbox on price, specs, DRM-free gaming

Microsoft may not have been listening to the rumbling of discontent over some of the new "features" coming with Xbox One, but Sony certainly has. Sony's new PlayStation 4 'It's the games, stupid' Sony unveiled the new PS4 console at this week's E3 gamers conference in Los Angeles, and it undercuts Redmond Xbox One by $100 …

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  1. Gert Leboski
    Thumb Up

    Well done Sony.

    Didn't think I'd say that.

    Just because MSFT want to exercise absolute control of the hardware and legitimate software that you pay your hard earned money for, it doesn't mean it is right to follow suit, 'because others are doing it'.

    I have an Xbox 360 and a PS3. Like the PS3 more and am far more likely to get the PS4 than the Xbox One.

    As Eadon might put it, MSFT FAIL!!! **froth froth**

    1. Daniel B.
      Thumb Up

      Re: Well done Sony.

      They had to do it. With both the rootkit fiasco and the OtherOS controversy, they managed to piss off a lot of people, and when they dismissed the latter group, the PS3 got cracked in a matter of months. Up until then, they could proudly say that the PS3 couldn't run pirated games and thus was pirate-proof. Oh, and then they had the PSN hacked as well. Back then, it seemed they didn't get the message, as OtherOS never came back. But it seems they did, to some amount.

      Meanwhile, Microsoft has been trying to replicate Apple's "the customer does as we tell him" attitude and it shows. They've managed to piss off far more people than Sony ever did: while OtherOS users were a very vocal minority, the demographics annoyed by game sharing bans is far larger. It's even dumber as they can't even hide behind the anti-piracy all-justifying flag that Sony had with OtherOS. MSFT is all about banning legally purchased games from being passed down or resold. Hopefully, they'll stand their ground and have the XBone crash & burn. A massive fail needs to be put as a warning to others...

      1. Thomas 4

        Re: Well done Sony.

        Sony have done a lot of crap in the past and I'm one of those folks that was really pissed about OtherOS. Today's shenanigans however come dangerously close to making Sony look like a decent company. In a dim light. With poor vision.

        1. Babbit55

          Re: Well done Sony.

          The Xbox one idea of digital sales limited resale ect could go 2 ways.

          Positive:- we get a "Steam" type offering with lower cost games and great sales with some pro owned market style stuff on both our Physical and Digital titles, and lets face it will that be different on the Steam box when that comes out?

          Negative:- we get gouged and have to pay £50+ for games we cannot resale.

          If the forma happens it could be good for Microsoft and us gamers and lets face it who in general doesn't like steam? Or the Latter that could end badly for Microsoft

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well done Sony.

      WOW, look at the size differences...

      https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Rwg_MN5y1cw/UbiVxJ2ztJI/AAAAAAAAKNQ/7aMuUyYpHzs/w697-h622-no/SizeMatters.jpg

  2. John Smith 23

    hmmm....sony doing something good ?

    seems somewhat unusual

    i thesedays avoid sony like the plague, generally being fed up with the proprietary crap they have dumped on me over the years, from connections, plugs, software etc

    So this does seem somewhat out of character

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

      Just be careful that none of the games install a rootkit.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

        How droll... How very, very droll... Do change the CD every once in a while. Assuming that you still use Rootkit infected CDs that is...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

          Sony never apologised and until the execs responsible face trial for orchestrating a global cyber-attack; I will not buy Sony and I sill not permit what Sony did to be forgotten.

          If you are so happy to be screwed over, go buy an Xbox One.

          1. defiler Silver badge

            Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

            Well, AC there pretty much answers what I was wondering. If Sony are being lauded for not being asses about DRM and connectivity, and people are swearing off the XBone, what does this mean for gamers who vowed never to buy anything from Sony again after their treatment of George Hotz? After all, it'll be a while before CoD is out on the Wii...

            It's almost like good cop / bad cop only nobody can remember who's who...

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Ru
        Facepalm

        Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

        Just be careful that none of the games install a rootkit.

        Er, you mean those games that will be running on an operating system written by Sony, on hardware designed by Sony, the terms of use of which will be entirely dictated by Sony?

        Rootkits are for use on systems you don't control.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: hmmm....sony doing something good ?

      Back to old Sony rather than media Sony

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thank you Sony

    If I wasn't a PC gamer I'd probably buy a PS4. I may even buy one anyway, because I despise Microsoft that much.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WMA

    Just imagine what the state of music would be if Apple hadn't introduced the iPod. At that time, pretty much every mp3 player would do mp3 and wma. If Microsoft had cornered the market, we'd be looking at the same draconian DRM restrictions as they are now trying to foist on their game controllers. So kudos to Sony for sticking it to the (sweaty) Man.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: WMA

      >Just imagine what the state of music would be if Apple hadn't introduced the iPod. At that time, pretty much every mp3 player would do mp3 and wma.

      Without Apple, Sony might have been the company to create the first high-end cum mass-market HDD audio player... if so, we'd have been using ATRAC and SonicStage (shudder). But yeah, I take your point: Apple became big enough to dictate terms to music publishers regarding DRM. I like them for that, just as I do for standing out against Flash, and for advocating 16:10 laptops.

      Sony's new tablet works with Dualshock3 controllers out of the box, and it is easier to get the same Sony DS3 controller to work with a PC than it is a wireless Xbox controller (it requires a dongle).

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: WMA

        Its only easier if your Netbook/Laptop/Tablet/Phone has built-in Bluetooth. None of my PCs have it, and so would also require a Dongle of some description. So... (See Icon)

    2. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Re: WMA

      They are trying for PlaysForSure* 2.0

      I'm sure they will be just as quick to stiff their customers and turn off the servers when they feel like it.

      *

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure

    3. ThePhantomBovine
      Linux

      Re: WMA

      Just imagine what the state of the mobile industry would be if Google hadn't funded the development of Android. At that time, pretty much every decent touchscreen phone was an Apple phone that wouldn't play DRM free and patent free formats such as ogg vorbis and theora. If Apple had cornered the market they'd look next into Apple games consoles and we'd be looking at the same draconian DRM/codec/app restrictions that they apply to their phones.

      Sony aren't sticking it to the (sweaty) man, they're just competing for customers. Look at the HDDVD/Blu-ray war. I had both players and I can tell you that HDDVD should have won from a "what's best for the consumer" point of view as the players were faster to play, cheaper, the format was complete. Instead they teamed up with some big studios and forced us to use slow players with compatibility and load speed problems.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: WMA

        BluRay holds more data 25GB per layer rather than 15GB

        My BluRay player loads pretty fast

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Devil

          Re: WMA

          > BluRay holds more data 25GB per layer rather than 15GB

          >

          > My BluRay player loads pretty fast

          My latest home theatre speaker system comes with an embedded BluRay player. All it took was paying a spinny disk directly JUST ONCE to cure me of any interest in doing that again.

          My HTPC doesn't just "load pretty fast". It does so instantly.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: WMA

            Blu Ray loading speed.

            Takes just a few seconds, you know to actually read it

            DVD players and CD players are the same

            1. JEDIDIAH
              Mushroom

              Re: WMA

              DVD and CD players aren't the same. They are far less bloated. They aren't weighted down with all of the nonsense that a BluRay player has to deal with.

              A BluRay player is an entire patchable DRM platform. It's also a java interpreter as that crap was also added to the BluRay spec too.

              Whereas a PC playing a file is going to need to deal with less bullsh*t.

              Even a proper DVD player is going to involve less bullsh*t.

              Plus, with an HTPC I don't have to deal with anyone's funky menus. One interface to rule them all.

              The BluRay format is like a kick in the balls to consumers.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: HDDVD/Blu-ray war

        Did bluray actually win? I know very few people who actually buy bluray disks (probably for the reasons you point out. DRM is the show stopper for me) Everyone just uses pirate mt2s files now, (often converted to BD5 or 9 disks). They play instantly on Mac, PC, Linux, media players etc. If BD9s were available commercially (without DRM) I'd buy them. As it is I do try to buy the corresponding DVDs, (when they get cheap enough.)

        But the studios shouldn't be too upset at the prospect of losing money from me, because I have just realized that the money I used to spend on full price DVDs, now goes on the cinema. (five times in the last two months)

  5. g e
    FAIL

    "XBOX Vista" already dead?

    Given that the new XBOX is essentially a totally new machine with zero backward compatibility (at least PS4 will have something via Gaikai) and has all the control freakery going on then there's nothing to tempt 360 users into its ecosystem, even 2 years down the line as secondhand games bundled with secondhand consoles will be pointless.

    Unless you're a confirmed SONY hater or an utter XBOX fanbod the PS4 just seems like the sane choice of where to put your cash. I know I won't be getting an XBOX One - probably ever, I'll leave that experience with my 360 - but I think I might just grab a PS4.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

      Except that to many players, having to phone home every day is inconsequential as it will always be online through WiFi.

      The 2nd-hand game issue is the thing which could scupper MS, but I'm not convinced of that... yet.

      1. Tachikoma
        Holmes

        I'm Alright Jack

        " inconsequential as it will always be online through WiFi."

        I take it you have not moved house recently and had that wonderful email/text from Open Reach(around) saying "your appointment has been rescheduled to 1 month after we agreed to install your broadband, don't like it? tough titty on you fish face!"

        This is a big issue for people that work overseas, people in the armed services serving abroad, students studying away from home (despite the rosy vision the BT adverts make their service out to be) that move digs every now and then, and those of us that live in the middle of nowhere and have spotty "broadband"

        1. Kevin 6

          Re: I'm Alright Jack

          Or your pole getting struck by lightning which in turn damaged your ISP's distribution point in the neighborhood, taking your modem,and router with it. Then having to wait almost 2 weeks after you get a new modem to get back online as the ISP can't figure out what the issue is cause you keep getting people in the phillipines that can't veer off the script to do actual troubleshooting. Like happened to me a lil over 2 weeks ago. I would have been screwed if I had an Xbox one.

          1. stratofish

            Re: I'm Alright Jack

            My phone line died almost 6 weeks ago and therefore my ADSL broadband with it.

            Due to starting a new job I haven't wanted to take time off unpaid and I wasn't ready to be working from home until recently so I've just had to live with it. I finally managed to work from home last week and the engineer decided not to bother turning up. I'm trying again tomorrow and will hopefully get it all back at last.

            There is not a chance in hell that I would buy a console that absolutely required a network connection to play a single-player game, permanently, frequent or otherwise.

          2. Blane Bramble
            FAIL

            Re: I'm Alright Jack

            Or take your console away with you to a holiday home that has no landline, no tv signal, no phone signal, but you might like to watch some dvds or play a few games some evenings.

            Or maybe your console isn't connected and on all the time, and you just want to play a few games, but the broadband is out and you haven't turned the console on all week.

            etc. etc.

      2. SBH
        Stop

        Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

        Is still have a N64 which is still hooked up to my TV, it's old tech but every now and then I get to play Mario 64 and Goldeneye and enjoy it - even after all these years.

        The servers the Xbox One has to contact will eventually be turned off and the console will no longer function.

        I don't think it is inconsequential this is blatant anti-consumerism

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

          I know that feel every few years I pull out the old PC Engine and troll though my collection of old Games. They sadly just don't make 'em like that anymore... T_T

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

          "The servers the Xbox One has to contact will eventually be turned off and the console will no longer function."

          Very similar to Nintendos channels on the Wii. We noticed that in the later part of 2013, there was a lack of newer games coming out for the original Wii (Skylanders Swap Force for example) where it is Wii-U only.

          In addition to that, we had notification that certain channels (Weather etc) were being switched off as the servers were being switched off.

          For new games, I was looking at an Xbox360 due to the massive back-catalog that you can get for £10-£15 per game but am holding off now and will get a PS4 probably after Christmas once a good selection of games are out. The whole internet, privacy issues on XboxOne had put me off as had the 2nd hand game market.

          1. Magnus_Pym

            Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

            "Very similar to Nintendos channels on the Wii. "

            Not really. Even when all support is ended for the Wii and all servers switched off it will still play games from the discs that you have bought. Even if Nintendo closed down tomorrow it would still do something. The Xbox One without online verification is a door stop. The blue rays become expensive drinks coasters.

        3. Jesse Jones
          Meh

          Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

          The N64 already 15 years old. Think about how much technology has evolved sincd 1996. Imagine having to locate and configure a primitive 802.11n router just to play an Xbox One. And are they really going to keep their authentication servers online for 15+ years?

      3. Ru
        Trollface

        Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

        Except that to many players, having to phone home every day is inconsequential as it will always be online through WiFi.

        And for all those naysayers who lack a convenient internet connection, I'm sure a handy phone-based system can be cobbled together where you just have to phone up a call centre once a day and enter a handy 36-character authentication code into your console and everything will carry on working just fine.

      4. Avatar of They Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

        Not that true, in the UK in rural places the internet is shoddy at best, crap most of the time and appalling frequently.

        I am a PC gamer but my Xbox catalogue are all second hand, because I don't want and can't be bothered to buy full priced games of such poor quality. (The ports to PC are enough to make me realise I don't want to) And given nearly all the big names are simply sequals I just can't risk £35+ when buying on the basis that Halo34 is worthy..

        Kids won't care but parents might, and given the way the economy is, second hand markets are very very important for a lot of families.

      5. JDX Gold badge

        Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

        You guys don't get it. Sure, moving house or if your ISP going down are a PITA but people are not going to make a decision on which console to buy based on the one which will work when they move house, something they do perhaps every couple of years. Most people won't even think of this fact when buying (tech-savvy people are like 1% of console owners) and even if they do, it's not the big issue. It's like saying nobody will take out a Netflix/Spotify subscription because they won't be able to watch TV or listen to music after they move house... it's an inconvenience (I just moved house!) but people still use those services.

        All the people who use their PCs and PS4s to play online games won't be able to play them for two weeks either, but I've never read a review of a multiplayer-focused game which marksa game down because you can't play it after you move house.

        As for dodgy internet... phoning home is not using a lot of data, it's just logging in.

        And if it's really an issue... just run your phone as a MiFi for a few minutes.

    2. MIc
      Megaphone

      Re: "XBOX Vista" already dead?

      you're sooooo right. I mean XBOX one sold out on amazon in four hours....... Wait...

      A quote from Amazon:

      “We were thrilled by the unprecedented demand we saw for Xbox One today. In the first four hours of preorder availability, we sold through most of our Xbox One Day One Edition inventory. Customers eager to get an Xbox One should visit our store at Amazon.com/xboxone to ensure they keep up-to-date on the latest information. We are excited to be working with Microsoft to deliver the next generation of games and entertainment,” said John Love, the director of U.S. video games and software at Amazon.

      Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/10/xbox-one-amazon-preorders-almost-completely-sell-out-within-four-hours/#3dUCAbFy2Y7wDlcI.99

      http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-one-day-one-bundle-sold-out-on-amazon-after-day-one-of-pre-order-sales

      http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/10/xbox-one-amazon-preorders-almost-completely-sell-out-within-four-hours/

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wait for proof

    Having already blacklisted Sony based on their DRM and un-user friendly software policies, I will be waiting to see them deliver on this before even thinking of investing more in this area.

    1. jason 7
      Meh

      Re: Wait for proof

      Indeed, apparently, Sony has let slip that all the DRM measures to enable the same or similar system as the Xbox One are there in the PS4.

      It's just that they will let the developers choose to enable it or not. Hmmmmmm.

      So we could well see it happen in the future.

      I expect to see a few U-turns from both Sony and MS before Xmas.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Wait for proof

        But Sony are not operating it, and is basically the same as the passes we have now

  7. Chet Mannly

    Pricing FAIL

    Once again Sony why is it 40% more in Australia? ($549)

    Thieving ba$%#&s.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Pricing FAIL

      Perhaps because of import duties? Perhaps because you live so far away from the rest of us?

      1. JimTopbloke

        Re: Pricing FAIL

        have you forgotten where Australia is? a darn sight closer to where they make the PS4 that we are ;)

        1. Steven Roper

          Re: Pricing FAIL

          "have you forgotten where Australia is? a darn sight closer to where they make the PS4 that we are ;)"

          Yes, but you're forgetting the wasteful stupidity of corporate logistics. Most likely they'll ship the consoles from China all the way across the Pacific to sit in a warehouse in Los Angeles for some US wronk to sign off on, then ship them all the way back across the Pacific to us, resulting in them being transported the equivalent of a lap of the equator.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Pricing FAIL

            Don't blame stupidity for what can be explained by greed.

            Check out MSDN pricing. No physical product involved.

      2. Persona non grata

        Re: Pricing FAIL

        JDX - Australian Import Duties on electronic goods: 0%

        - GST 10%

        Shipping cost is around $0.40 per unit based on investigations by Choice magazine.

        Profit percentage is WAY up - the bulk of Australian market is well trained in being shafted on imports. For example PS3 games have a retail price of $120 here, as the Australian dollar increased in value by 60% the price didn't alter at all.

        The same happens with all other goods, especially cars. We're a cash cow for international companies and import wholesalers. The increased efficiency of a global market has only meant increased profits shipped out of the country.

    2. Birdulon

      Re: Pricing FAIL

      I hear it's not region-locked. If this is true I may end up importing one later on as the local pricing is just ridiculous.

  8. Matt Piechota

    Not yet

    I still haven't forgiven Sony for disabling Linux support on the PS3. My device had it, and I used it (although it wasn't *that* great). Made a decent platform for MAME though.

    I got the PS3 as a lapsed gamer (Dreamcast and PC), and frankly I'm still lapsed. I guess I have other ways to entertain myself these days.

    1. Electron_4
      Thumb Up

      Re: Not yet

      I use a Nintendo Wii for Mame - it works really well and I have other emulators on it too e.g. Atari 800 etc.

      1. Amorous Cowherder
        Thumb Up

        Re: Not yet

        I have a rooted Wii games on a USB HDD so the kids don't wreck the DVDs ( kids and DVD discs, don't mix very well! ) I never even bothered looking to see what emus were about, stick Wii/MAME on my list of things to do for a quiet Saturday afternoon!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not yet

        What - I can use my old Wii to emulate my Atari 800 which is in the shed and not allowed into the house ? I'll be Googling tonight - Star Wars on a large TV... actually, compared to today's graphics I might be disappointed.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It was bound to happen - somebody LISTENED to CUSTOMERS...

    Marketing is EASY -

    all too often they create the product and then talk up the reasons to justify us "needing it".

    The BEST and EASIEST marketing is : identify the demand and CREATE what the customers WANT.

    Sony, in a complete shocker has done this, while MS has done exactly what they always do - told us THEY know best.

    For instance - Windows Phone - how about a) a facility to block callers and SMS senders, b) the ability to set reminders of missed calls / texts? Customers want this, still waiting.

    Windows 8 - how about a "classic start menu" that users can choose to turn on and off?

    MS will not listen, especially with Windows 8 because people are missing the point of the tile interface - it's a revenue generator. They NEED people to go there because that's where the Windows Store lives - if people don't go there, nobody will bother making apps...and MS will not get any (more) money.

    What I would like MS to do now is.....match the price. Take the hit, but put their money where their mouths are.

    This is politics - "we'll give you what the other guy won't / can't". Don't hold your breath - last time round it was the X360 that was cheaper than the PS3. Hmm...wonder if the bluray (that Sony are part of) was hiked in cost? ha ha

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: It was bound to happen - somebody LISTENED to CUSTOMERS...

      They haven't listened to what customers want, they have just taken the gold-plated opportunity to profit from MS' foolishness. Sony are ONLY doing this to steal MS customers and make more money, there is nothing close to "doing good" here, just a shrewd financial move.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It was bound to happen - somebody LISTENED to CUSTOMERS...

        My, your glass really is empty isn't it....

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: It was bound to happen - somebody LISTENED to CUSTOMERS...

        They may be opportunistic bast*rds but that's kind of what capitalism is supposed to be all about. You aren't at the mercy of just one bast*rd. You have a wide selection of them so that when one screws up you can patronize another one.

        Yes corporations, knock yourself out to steak me as a customer. Bribe me away from my current brand.

    2. gm0n3y

      Re: It was bound to happen - somebody LISTENED to CUSTOMERS...

      To be fair, M$ used to do a much better job of trying to make what users wanted, but then they started getting their ass handed to them by Apple. So they took a page from Jobs' playbook and started treating users like idiot sheep and telling them what they wanted. Unfortunately for M$, Apple already has the sheep market cornered. While it sounds like Sony is doing a better job this console cycle so far, I have very little faith in them as a company. I'll be sticking to my PC for gaming, and not because the games will look and run better (which they will) but because I want control over my gaming experience. Of course I'll still need to stay away from companies like EA which are trying to control the PC.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @gm0n3y

        " I'll be sticking to my PC for gaming, and not because the games will look and run better (which they will) but because I want control over my gaming experience."

        How much "control" do you have if your games require Steam, or Origin, and how can you possibly avoid them (without having cracked versions of all your Steam and Origin games)?

        1. Jordan Davenport

          Re: @gm0n3y

          Although having a set hardware platform to develop against will provide for a uniform experience on a console, you can control exactly which hardware goes into a PC. Want something that will play games but maybe not with the best of graphics? Go cheaper. Want something that will play everything you own at 1080p with anti-aliasing and all sorts of particle effects? Buy something more powerful. That's not an option with a console. That said, since the console provides the same experience for everyone, bugs will be easier to quash. Both consoles and PCs have their pros and their cons in that regard.

          Additionally, most games on PC will allow you to modify them, whether it's officially condoned or not, even if distributed via Steam. (I don't know about Origin, truthfully.) For instance, I'm currently using a mod for Left 4 Dead 2 that replaces the Tank with Donkey Kong. I've also seen a mod for Sonic Generations on PC that allows you to play through several levels from Sonic Unleashed. You don't have that degree of freedom on a console.

          You generally have to rely on only one means of content delivery - the one provided by the console manufacturer. Want to buy something from someone that has it cheaper? Unless it's available on physical media, you can't on a console. PC games can often be downloaded from the publisher's own website or through various other legal distributors such as Steam, GOG, or Amazon, to name only a few.

          But like I said, both platforms have their benefits. Consoles are certainly easier, I'll say. For instance, you don't have to install a game before you play it...

          ...Oh wait...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

    About the XBone.... Combine an always on, heartbeat monitoring design with current NSA PRISM activities, and you got yourself an all out conspiracy!

    As far as the PS4, I hope Sony's online servers are ready for a massive beating!

    1. LinkOfHyrule
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

      It a well known fact that Al-Qaeda peado-terrorists are big fans of Kinect Sports!

    2. Philip Lewis
      Big Brother

      Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

      Are these links accurate?

      Can this even be legal?

      http://24.media.tumblr.com/f69202276a802bbe58d929ac50daff5f/tumblr_mnduhdxaYc1ri3pnfo1_1280.png

      http://24.media.tumblr.com/c28916081184abfa8e6a09c282941b71/tumblr_mnmghgM6dJ1qk5zuho1_1280.jpg

      1. The BigYin

        Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

        I can't rebut everything just now, but you can turn it off. Even if MS hard-wired it to be always on, you could STILL turn it off (switch on the wall).

        IR works in darkness...no shit!

        Emotions? Heart rate.

        Seriously, these are trivial to look up. If I wasn't on the mobile I'd consider doing it. I assume you are semi-tech literate and capable of using a search engine.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

          There's an entry on http://news.xbox.com/ which clarifies MS's privacy options.

          And although you can "turn off" the Kinect it's actually only "turned off" via software. The kinect unit still has to be connected to the XB1 at all times (why?!?!).

          Now we all know that all software is 100% perfect, right? :-|

          So when the inevitable back-door/bug/hack appears that allows these software settings to be bypassed and you to be spyed upon what then? Probably just get the usual "sorry, my bad" excuse

          1. The BigYin

            Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

            I'll type this slowly: Turn. It. Off. At. The. Wall.

            Seriously, just how hard is that? You can even get power-strips/surge-protectors with remote off switches.

            All my consumer devices are off (at the switch) or even unplugged unless in active use.

            1. auburnman

              Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

              They want it on all the time, my money is on turning it off at the wall being more hassle than it's worth.

              "Your XBone has recovered from an unexpected power loss. Please sit there doing nothing like a prick for the next three hours while the hard drive is checked and 500 mandatory patches are applied."

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

              You can type as slowly as you want - if you turn off your tv/console/sky/freeview/dvd box etc etc at the wall socket then I think you're definitely in the minority.

              Most people (and anecdotally, everyone I know) turns off the *device* and leaves the wall socket on, so keeping the device powered ready to come back on out of standby.

              1. sabroni Silver badge

                Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

                I'm typing this really slowly. I should be able to play a video game without the console watching me. That's too much to ask for?

                1. Jediben
                  Holmes

                  Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

                  Why not just turn the thing around so it's facing the telly and not you?

                  1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                    Re: Waiting for "Kinect: PRISM"

                    Or just slap a piece of glass over the eyepiece and duct tape the whole thing? The glass muffles the IR camera while the duct tape covers the visible-light camera.

      2. Jess

        Re: Are these links accurate?

        I suspect not, but I also suspect there is a disconcerting amount of truth, and a frightening amount of potential for the future.

        If you have the hardware and total control (perhaps by an always on internet connection), then it's just a matter of software to do the rest.

        If the camera is IR, then it is likely that clever algorithms could be used to guess emotions and heart-rate from body language and heat distribution.

        You could do most of the same with current consoles too, but it is the always online always needs a camera thing that would be a serious worry.

  11. Nelbert Noggins

    Apart from the die hard fans, it'll come down to which has the games people want when they buy it and what their friends have bought.

    I bought a PS3 near launch because it had the games I wanted, was a good blu-ray player and after being in the same room as a 360 the noise was a deal breaker.

    Only recently have I got a 360, which now makes my PS3 sound noisy. iPlayer and Lovefilm stream better on the 360 than the PS3. I got the 360 because of games, Bethesda's continued balls up with DLC for PS3 and lack of release dates, Kinect for the lil one, and now the PS3 gathers dust even though I still have games to play.

    The Xbox One/PS4... meh... maybe one day but the PS3/360 are still more than capable and I still have plenty of games to start playing, nevermind finish

    1. Roger B

      I have had an Xbox for the past 5 years or so and when my area finally got broadband I picked up a PS3 for the bluray and On Demand players, but since the updates to the Xbox with the introduction of On Demand players my PS3 was hardly getting used so I traded it in last week for credit to go towards the Xbox One. The price announcement and the pre owned games issue still has me a little unsure, I was expecting £399, an extra £30 is just a bit higher than expected.

      The way I am understanding the preowned mechanic is both new consoles actually have a system in place but only Microsoft have actively announced it and the internet have jumped all over it, but it is actually up to the publishers how and if they use it. Right now, I am naively hoping that if the publishers use it then Xbox One new games will be cheaper than the equivalent PS4 titles, didn't the same thing happen with PC titles when they started introducing online activation or activation codes? it killed off pre owned PC, but also the prices came down for new games.

      Microsoft have obviously handled the fallout from this all pretty badly, but I have faith (that sounds a bit religious perhaps) that things will work out and I will pick up an Xbox One in about a years time after the first production batch has been used up and any manufacturing problems get corrected.

      1. Oninoshiko
        Trollface

        The way I am understanding the preowned mechanic is both new consoles actually have a system in place but only Microsoft have actively announced it and the internet have jumped all over it, but it is actually up to the publishers how and if they use it.

        You understand incorrectly. Sony has been intentionally vague on this, probably to egg MS into doing this online every day, only resell if you pay us crap. Sony turned around and announced (after the internet has started to fume) that you will be able to whatever you want with your game. Play it, resell it, poop on it, whatever makes you happy. Any copy-protection will be solely for stopping copying. They aren't even doing region-locking.

        MS on the other-hand have announced that if your XBone has been offline for more then 24 hrs, you aren't playing any games.

        Microsoft have obviously handled the fallout from this all pretty badly, but I have faith (that sounds a bit religious perhaps) that things will work out and I will pick up an Xbox One in about a years time after the first production batch has been used up and any manufacturing problems get corrected.

        Wow, that's brand loyalty. Almost the level of a Mac user. They have annouced "we plan to stick it to you," You know (and admit) they put out faulty hardware, but you are STILL confident you are going to buy it? Wow.

        Personally, I'm not convenced I want either, but if you made me choose one, at this point it would have to be the PS4.

        <-- Trollface, because that's what Sony is doing to MS.

        1. Roger B

          I know and saw the clips from the Sony conference, but I still thought there was some DRM in their console, they had just chosen not to mention anything about it/not activate it. My internet connection is normally pretty good, I've been with BT for a little over 2 years now and I think it has been down for maybe one evening so to be honest the activation thing is not a worry for me.

          Have to wonder though, it was the publishers who must of pushed for the preowned device, but at the moment, no one knows or is commenting on how or if they will even use it.

          As for the hardware, my console has run fine for as long as I have had it, but, as I work in the industry I have seen the huge quantities of Xbox console console which came in after failing. My main concern is the laser technology used in the drive, Sony's 60GB and early 40GB machines used a single diode laser for both DVD and bluray which died pretty quick, (although someone did bring me a 60GB machine yesterday they had had since launch that had only just stopped working.) so I would want to avoid getting any of the first production run machines. Plus, a wait will hopefully bring a rpice drop/some kind of bundle and I still have ample games to finish in the endless addiction that is gathering achievements. Not sure if I like being compared to a Mac fan, but reading what I wrote, I guess I deserve that. Plus to me, the PS3 pad is terrible, I find the Xbox controller much more comfortable, obviously both pads have had some re design, but to me the PS4 pad looks even worse, where as the Xbox pad is just a little smaller, which I admit might not be a good thing. I guess there is always the Xbox 360 Mini if I don't like it.

          I like the idea of having one less box under my TV, combining games and bluray is perfect as I only have 2 HDMi ports and at the moment its Xbox and Freeview using them up.

  12. Darren Coleman
    Pint

    Will Microsoft's hubris allow them to backpeddle?

    Microsoft will surely have to backtrack now on their used game / online activation policies, but the question is whether their hubris will allow them to?

    Usually with game expos and the console wars in general it's six of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of which one is best. Opinions are usually partisan and rarely objective. This time around though there is a palpable feeling that Sony won E3, and perhaps even the console war if the status quo is maintained.

    It's tough to imagine how Microsoft could've planned it any worse than it ended up being - from the initial misguided focus on entertainment and TV (which won't even work outside of the US) over games to a retrograde used games and "always on" DRM policy.

    Sony, no strangers to questionable DRM snafus, came out looking like consumer champions who could walk on water. I'm not surprised SCEA CEO Jack Tretton was beaming for the last 20 minutes of the keynote.

    As an aside it's somewhat amusing, telling and depressing in equal measure that there was rapturous applause at the annoucement that Sony would be letting consumers continue having what they're already used to having. For now at least.

    1. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Re: Will Microsoft's hubris allow them to backpeddle?

      "Microsoft will surely have to backtrack now on their used game / online activation policies, but the question is whether their hubris will allow them to?"

      Sure, right after they put the option to turn off not-metro in Win8.

      They will do something as useless as the start button, maybe only require you to reactivate your player when you switch games.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will Microsoft's hubris allow them to backpeddle?

      Agree Sony appear to have 'won' E3.

      Yet there is plenty to be played out in DRM space.

      Biggest question: what will publishers actually do with DRM?

      Also key, as digital downloads overtake disk-media, what is the situation selling or giving away used games that don't have a disk as ownership token?

      How easy is it really to play your games on a friends console or other consoles in your dwelling?

      What are Sony and Microsoft doing to support independent developers?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will Microsoft's hubris allow them to backpeddle?

      The whole TV side of things seems to have been ignored in the UK... it does seem that MS' s core focus for the Xbox1 is to be a US TV box... functionality that is not relevant to the rest of the world

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Over the last 5 years Microsoft have shot themselves in the foot in such spectacular fashion on so many occasions, you wonder how it is even possible. This must be the dimension in which everything went wrong for them.

    1. Piro

      Yup

      It's almost like someone at Sony has invented the flux capacitor, gone back to January 2000 and made sure Steve Ballmer became CEO of Microsoft, setting in motion the events that lead to this timeline.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Windows

      " This must be the dimension in which everything went wrong for them".

      Should, of course, read thus:

      " This must be the dimension in which Ballmer is in charge".

      There, corrected that for you.....

  14. John Riddoch
    Pirate

    Game prices?

    With the game companies getting their pound of flesh on 2nd hand games, that should make the Xbox games marginally cheaper to buy initially as they'll have a longer term revenue stream to follow. With no cut in the resale of PS4 games, they may end up more expensive to compensate.

    Of course, what will really happen is that companies will charge as much as they can get away with to turn a profit, same as always. Time will tell how this all pans out.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You also forgot..

    Region locking and size.

    Ps4 is not only considerably more powerful, and cheaper it's also 1/3 of the size of the Xbox betamax, coming on the same size as the current super slim. It's also ALOT sexier too.

    I want tho be a fly on balmers wall today. Is there anyone left that still wants an Xbox one?

    1. King Jack

      Re: You also forgot..

      The PS4 is region free.

  16. Electron_4
    WTF?

    Rip off Britain

    So the British pay the most - no change there then (pardon the pun).

    1. Kaltern

      Re: Rip off Britain

      Get it from Amazon.com, £319 inc estimated import tax. HEy, it's something... that £30 can go towards a game or a controller!

    2. Blank Reg

      Re: Rip off Britain

      Keep in mind that the US price does not include taxes.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rip off Britain

      The Euro price is pretty close to the UK one, €399 = ~£338. So ~£11 cheaper. Remember you can't directly use the US prices as they don't include sales tax where the rest of the civilised world does. So add on 20% to the $399 for VAT, or $479. It's still cheaper at £305 though, but I guess not as bad.

  17. Duffaboy
    FAIL

    Need 4 Speed : Handbreak Turn

    Watch for MS to make a massive u turn on pre-owns and price very shortly...

    1. Kaltern
      Trollface

      Re: Need 4 Speed : Handbreak Turn

      "We at Microsoft are always listening to our customers. That is why we have decided to break new ground and not ONLY allow you to play preowned games at NO CHARGE*, but we'll also allow you to connect only once a WEEK to allow you to play your games!

      * subject to uploading the entire content of the disk to the cloud, and posting the disk to us for destruction. Terms and conditions apply, especially if it is an EA game.'

    2. Danny 5

      Re: Need 4 Speed : Handbreak Turn

      I don't see that happening, as that would require a mayor overhaul of the system and it's too late to do that. Microsoft will have to suffer the consequence of their arrogance and will have to start from nearly scratch again.

      Maybe the Xbox one.1 will have all we wanted, wasn't that the case for windows 8.1 as well? It'll be a good while before they've changed everything though.

    3. andykb3

      Re: Need 4 Speed : Handbreak Turn

      I doubt it on price - they can rightfully point out that their price includes Kinect whereas PS4 doesn't bundle their equivalent - that does have some value (although whether Kinect is work $100 / £80 more is up to you, personally I'm happy not to have it).

      They may be forced into rethinking the DRM though.

  18. Herby Silver badge

    Dr. Falken how about a nice game of chess?

    No, Global thermonuclear war really isn't a game you play to win! I will note that Microsoft does attempt this, but is most likely doomed to failure at some time.

  19. Piro

    Nah, no catch

    I don't need or want the camera thing. I sit on a chair very close to my screen. I'm not going to get up, nor do I have the physical room to do so.

    The only "catch" if you must is the fact the controller probably won't be as comfy as the Xbone controller. Oh well.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nah, no catch

      Have you considered dieting?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Microsoft does appear have the upper hand"........ Really?

    "As for the games themselves, Microsoft does appear have the upper hand for the mass consumer market, with early access to the new Call of Duty and a revamped Halo out next year. "

    Does Microsoft really have the upper hand? Does anyone else feel that the COD / Halo / Far Cry / Hitman franchises have become as stale as Hollywood sequels? The user maps on the PC version of COD2 and COD4 and Far Cry 2 are far more creative than their new map offerings.... In short Sony, please follow up your promise and let new Indie games become the next blockbusters... We need fresh ideas...

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: "Microsoft does appear have the upper hand"........ Really?

      Games, well I am happy with what I have seen

      Watch Dogs looks good

      Order 1886 has that Dishono(u)red feel

      I WILL get KZ Shadow Fall, to go with KZ, KZ2, KZL, KZ3, and by then KZM.

      I WILL buy whatever Naughty Dog produce.

  21. JayLamont
    FAIL

    How about the military?

    I feel like a major demo is being left out from the Microsoft crowd. Military.

    I am a hardcore XBox fan, and have been for over a decade. I've brought my XBox products on every deployment and exercise since the original.

    The downside, however, is that I, like most military, don't have the option of internet access for days, weeks, months or even years at a time.

    Is Microsoft REALLY going to let that KEY demo be forgotten? I will most likely have to buy a PS4 on sheer common sense if Microsoft doesn't change their policies.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How about the military?

      Of course not... M$ will make a huge song and dance about "supporting our brave troops!" by introducing some byzantine workaround solution like booting the device with a special military dongle attached that allows it to bypass the phone-home-every-24-hours bullshit. Except the good publicity the thought they were going to garner from that has been blown away by the PS4. The best reaction they'll get now is meh, PS4 already does that.

    2. obyone

      Re: How about the military?

      I'm in the same foxhole Battle. (Yeah I know we don't use foxholes anymore) but haven't you heard? Microsoft already has a solution to this. If you're military or have no access to the internet, just stick with the Xbox 360.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzmVcasl3ZU

      After being military for 9 years, I heard some steaming piles in my day but this is a complete load of crap. By his logic, we should have all stuck with N64s. No, the real answer is, if you don't have internet and/or are military, buy a PS4.

      What an arrogant prick.

  22. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  23. Duffaboy
    Facepalm

    The reason why it must be connected to the Internet is......

    To download the oh dear we have dropped a MASSIVE clanger and we will service pack your XBox 1 (stupid name) to allow you to play pre-owned titles.. Oh and to give you Windows Live Credits to the tune of the amount you have been charged more for our box (361) than that nicer cheaper Sony one sorry 4.

    1. MrE
      Mushroom

      Re: The reason why it must be connected to the Internet is......

      At least they will provide system updates even new interfaces and OS's (look what happened shortly before Kinect was released)

      1. Rukario

        Re: The reason why it must be connected to the Internet is......

        > provide system updates even new interfaces

        Yeah we got the first look at what would turn out to be TIFKAM.

  24. Duffaboy
    Happy

    With the price saved buying a Ps4

    Look at all the pre-owned games we can buy, then sell back and buy more..

  25. asdf Silver badge

    damn it

    Shoot might end up buying Nintendo after all. Microsoft and Sony (formerly the world's biggest DRM peddler but still a very close 2nd) quit caring about that their consumer customers long ago and don't even pretend any more.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Android games anyone?

    Isn't Google putting big investments into games?

  27. AWare
    Mushroom

    Thank you Sony!

    *IF* Sony lives up to the "no draconian new DRM" claim, internet connection truly is not required to play and I don't have to have the NSA/PRISM in my house then I will be getting a PS4.

    Under no circumstances will I buy the XBox nOne - DRM, broadband requirement and "Built-In NSA spybot" aside, I just won't buy another MS console that will stop working in under a year.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thank you Sony!

      Never mind the PS4 Eye or Kinect. Remember under no circumstances should you let any phones, tablets or computers with webcams into your house either or NSA/PRISM will get you.

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Thank you Sony!

      Before I let Sony off the hook about the "no DRM" bit, ask them to explain that patent about NFC-tagged discs. Unless they agree in writing to not implement it in the PS4 (or better, to abandon enforcement of it), there's still the threat they can lock the games down later.

      Also, on the matter of resale, what about games that are downloaded from Sony without a disc? And what about the Steam model (which Microsoft is pretty much copying)?

    3. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Thank you Sony!

      > internet connection truly is not required to play

      It does suck though that free network gaming is dying with the PS3. PSN plus will be required for the PS4 for online gaming.

    4. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: Thank you Sony!

      And Sony has never changed the product (or its functionality) after having sold it to the customer?

  28. Mystic C
    Trollface

    Another nail for M$

    Check out game play for The Division PS4 on YouTube i will play the shit out of that .

    link for the hard of typing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRKJL1ffz0

    1. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: Another nail for M$

      Pahh... Did we really need a new System for this Sh!t? Surly the PS3 is more then capable of this as it is!

    2. Robert Forsyth

      Re: Another nail for M$

      That reminds me of Mucky Foot's Urban Chaos

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQe1fhgQ6EA

      http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/366268-urban-chaos/images/gs_screen-3

  29. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Freaky Friday Flip

    Seems like someone switched up Microsoft and S0NYs' personalities here.

    I can recall a time when Microsoft were more Gamer-friendly and S0NY were the Ones trying to use the Trojan Horse to be the One-Stop-Shop for all things Media. I think that might have been 'round the time of the S0NY PSP and a touch latter again with the PS3.

    Perhaps unlike MicroSoft, S0NY are actually listening to there Costumers for once? Then again S0NY are in such sh** right now that they'd be Gone in Sixty if they'd have even thought to terry down that Path, and they KNOW IT!

  30. This post has been deleted by its author

  31. W.O.Frobozz

    Sucker Punch?

    Seriously, Sony would have had to have made an actual concerted effort to screw up given Microsoft's XBone fiasco. Even the most die-hard X-box fanatics are facing the long dark tea-time of the soul over Ballmersoft's latest titsup. Time to cut Ballmer (and Dave Cutler, the moron who took over the X-Box division) loose. Alliard had the mojo...Cutler the Drill Sargeant never did, and never will. Maybe they can promote Roz "failing upwards" Ho to the X-box divison as well, and complete the circle. She did such a great job with the WinPhone after all.

    (And it will be a cold day in Hades before I let a Microsoft telescreen into my house. You can bet the NSA already has "people" on the XBone's Kinect 2.0).

  32. larokus
    Holmes

    Loyalty Lost

    I have owned both the original Xbox 360 and the PS3 since their releases, and have this to contribute:

    The ps3 had ever so slightly superior graphics in games

    The ps3 UI was much quicker to navigate and therefore was superior for media streaming (using PS media server on the PC (transcoding when needed)

    The Xbox controller was far more comfortable to use for long gaming sessions and why I used the Xbox as my primary gaming console

    I had to return 3 xbox 360's due to the three rings of death, my fourth has lasted years however.

    The latest Ps3 firmware supports 3d blu-ray and looks absolutely stellar on my 3d bravia.

    I recently moved deep into the country where broadband doesn't exist, I tether my android to play online, the Xbox 360 is incapable of making use of it, yet PC games run flawlessly (World of tanks does anyhow.) That being said, the Xbox one is out of the question.

    Hell I have little faith in either console. I will be sticking with PC games now, but Sony is leading this race if they can make good on their commitments. Although a console should be head and shoulders above the previous generation and have future proofing built in so they both should support 4k and in the h.265 format, and if they do not, both consoles will be antiquated not long after they hit the shelves, and most certainly within three years time. A horrible time to release a console as the both should have a BDXL drive and support the latest and most efficient codec. The ps3 brought blu-ray and now 3d playback (without the need to purchase additional hardware) to the mainstream, what will these consoles bring aside from an incremental upgrade?

  33. WereWoof
    FAIL

    BANG!!!! That is the sound of Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot . . .AGAIN!!!!

  34. Cito4k
    Megaphone

    Same ol Same

    Xbox has lost their minds yes, but Sony groupies are ignoring what they read,. Sont is jumping on the bandwagon and will charge $50 for PlayStaion Plus to play games online so cheap ass Sony owners get eady to pay up if your an online gamer. If you are gonna say "But we can watch Netflix" then your an idiot who spent $400 on machine to watch Netflix when you can by a Blu ray player for $100 thats Netflix compatible. Sure Xbox is $100 more but come on people they are adding a Kinect its common sense for buisness. Yes the whole used game and check in is stupid and down right dumb I agree. The lending of games I don't care about, I'm not 7 years old, I work hard for my purchase and do not loan games out anyway so that aspect means nothing to me. Guess we will see the outcome in months to come.

    1. RAMChYLD
      Alert

      Re: Same ol Same

      Protip: Playstation Plus is available in most countries in the world. XBox Live Gold? Only first world countries. Sony still wins either way.

      Either that, or watch them retract the PS Plus is required to play online requirements a few weeks after the console is released.

      1. Danny 5
        Thumb Up

        Re: Same ol Same

        And besides, what's so bad about having to pay a little extra if you want to play online? only seems fair to me. I understand you will get a free game every month for your subsription. I don't call that a restriction, i call that a good deal!

    2. Blank Reg

      Re: Same ol Same

      And yet the PS3 is the number one platform for Netflix usage so clearly many people want it on their console

    3. Goat Jam
      Headmaster

      "your an idiot"

      One of my all time favourite phrases, right there.

      Thank you Internet.

  35. Birdulon
    Angel

    Blast from the Past

    It's like E3 1995 all over again. SEGA kick off with pricing for the Saturn, a new Genesis edition is quietly released, and Sony steals the show undercutting them by $100 with a much more appealing lineup to boot. I wonder if next year's E3 will be a repeat of '96 with Sony dropping the price of the PS4 even further?

  36. stanimir

    US prices do not include sales tax (which I find very amusing), the price for 'Europe' is after VAT that's also twice higher than avg. sales tax (20+% vs 8%)

  37. RAMChYLD
    Boffin

    And it's region free, too!

    Couple Sony's announcement this morning that they'll continue pushing for the games published for the console to be region free, they now have my respect. Dispite my earlier quip about how both consoles are just low powered PCs, I will think of getting one IF any exclusives for the console catches my attention now.

  38. Filippo

    catch

    So the camera is a ~50$ add-on to a ~400$ box, while MS's offer is a ~500$ box that includes the camera. It doesn't sound much like a catch to me.

    1. Tieger

      Re: catch

      not a catch at all for people that don't care for kinect at all!

  39. Spider
    Facepalm

    alienate your customers.

    whilst not a huge percentage by any means, needing a connection of any sort will stop anyone in the forces or offshore industries from buying.

    I passed the time on many deployments and subsequent offshore jobs with networked games of footy or shooting each other. Maybe a small demographic, but they tend to spend large on these items. MS just lost them.

  40. austerusz
    Thumb Down

    Two fails

    I'm an Xbox fan and there are many things I love about the console:

    - the amazing Kinect

    - the ergonomic controllers

    - the mediacenter concept

    However, the lack of any backward compatibility means I'll have to keep the old console to play my current games, any games I'll buy may be passed to someone else just once, the fact that the console won't work without Kinect attached, the fact that the consoles will be region-locked, the patent the M$ got on DRM by detecting people in the room, as well as the fact that you need a Live! subscription even for online services that aren't (or shouldn't) be connected to Live are powerful no-no's.

    It's rather sad that there's so much FAIL regarding the services around the console that for once I'm going to have to say "pass" to the things I like and move on.

    However, for me Sony also doesn't have enough incentives (I don't like the Eye, they don't offer enough in terms of mediacenter options, controller ergonomics are poor) so I'll just get a couple of controllers for the PC and stick with a gaming platform that I can actually own.

  41. chiller

    "a slight catch"

    I can live with the "slight catch" thank you very much, a bit nitpicky if you ask me.

    I can sense the grinding cogs of the Microsoft backtracking machine slowly coming to life.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "a slight catch"

      This is Microsoft they won't backtrack. They will just pay the media to layer critical acclaim on the Xbox one and make people believe they want one, and that Sony is evil etc etc

    2. QuinnDexter

      Re: "a slight catch"

      Hmmm. I agree totally. I have both PS3 and XBox360 in my home... and no Kinect. That catch means sweet Fanny Adams to me.

      So the XBox One was heralded by The Register as soon as they possibly could, with news up on the front page almost as quickly as the BBC and other news outlets. The E3 PS4 showboating happens, and I was eagerly awaiting the opinion of The Register who finally get round to letting us know their thoughts a couple of days later. Saying there is a catch. And then also giving MicroSoft an additional opportunity for a sales pitch as an update to the PS4 story. WTF is that about?

      Chances are, I'll buy a PS4, cos it's a sensible choice and my son will buy an XBoxOne for his room cos he's a MineCraft fanboy.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Minecraft

        Err this is a PC game best played on PCs.

        Source, 2 Minecraft obsessed sons

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Minecraft

          "Err this is a PC game best played on PCs.

          Source, 2 Minecraft obsessed sons"

          Obsessed arn't choosy where they play the game.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "a slight catch"

        I too am wondering why it took el reg over 24 hours to report on the Sony reveal when the neww about the xbox was immediate. And then to give MS another bite at the cherry in the sony news story...and stating the lack of camera was a catch

        Does the prolific presence of MS ads on El Reg have anything to do with this inconsistent and apparently biased reporting?

        1. F Seiler

          Re: "a slight catch"

          the "catch" on the camera sounded so obviously sarcastic i'm not even sure it wasn't meant as is

  42. Danny 5
    Thumb Up

    sold!

    Well done Sony, you did what i hoped you would do and have capatalized on Microsoft's fuckup. I know where my money will be going when the new consoles hit the shelves. I might even check to see if i can get a nice, second hand PS3, as i noticed there's some awesome games yet to come out for it.

    Above video is hillarious, i received it from a friend yesterday. Massive win for Sony here, i'm sure they're still laughing.

  43. returnmyjedi

    PS4 also has DRM on used games

    What Sony didn't mention in great detail is that the PS4 will have optional DRM on used games. First party games won't use it, but it will be available for third party publishers.

    However, the £80 price difference coupled with the added power means that there is more likely to be a Sony console under my telly this Christmas than an MS one.

    1. Blank Reg

      Re: PS4 also has DRM on used games

      Well they didn't mention that because it's not true. They've clarified that there is no DRM on any games and no online passes even for 3rd party games.

      1. Roger B

        Re: PS4 also has DRM on used games

        Not quite

        http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2013/06/12/sony-clarify-ps4-stance-on-used-games-playstation-4-does-not-enforce-any-drm-restrictions/

        It's not there, but publishers can still introduce it if they wish.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: PS4 also has DRM on used games

          Plus there's still the matter of that NFC-on-the-disc patent Sony holds. As reported, this can allow no-resale even without an internet connection.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: PS4 also has DRM on used games

            But you need a reader and it also may be a defense patent

  44. MrE
    Boffin

    I like how the comment "consumers can resell games and give games to their friends with Xbox One" is overlooked.

    By the way I can't sell on my mobile games and software (spent a few hundred pounds over the years). I'm only keeping my old iPhone 3GS because it's got a full copy of TomTom on it that I use regularly.

    If games companies get some of the sales money from resale and I can still sell on my game I'm happy, maybe it could reduce the constant flow of collapsing games studios?

    If I were a games producer would I want to have a steady income from re-sold games or lose out to reseller stores like GAME?

    Hmm food for thought...

  45. goldcd

    I didn't actually detest what MS were trying to do

    As far as I could see it was similar to steam, just with a bolted on (and somewhat amorphous) ability to provide some ability to transfer games permanently. I *liked* the idea of just being able to sign into another XB and have my games, my DLC, my saves etc available on another machine.

    The problem was that they were trying to make this exist alongside legacy physical media - and handling me having a game "in my profile" and somebody else physically having the disc necessitates the need to have a system to determine ownership and an mandatory internet connection so it can be enforced.

    In my life I've probably bought a couple of 2nd hand games, but 'losing' this isn't a big deal. Last few times I've wanted to pick up an older game, I've found that they can usually be picked up new on Amazon for a fraction of their original price (and usually cheaper than 2nd hand on the High St). Just did a quick check and the last 1/2 dozen games I've bought are all between £7 and £20 new.

    Second point is that Sony are already taking a cut from people who re-buy physical games. Not too familiar with the PS3, but at least half my Vita games seem to have a 'online access' DLC that auto-downloads along side the game you purchase - I sell on the game, and the next guy has to cough up £10 to make it go online. God knows how this gets handled by the retailers - they must either ignore it or mark the games up as costing £9.99 (physical) + £10 (online). However much you whine, the MS solution to this would at least be 'cleaner'

    Most of this outrage has been manufactured and I suspect it's mainly led/funded by Game Stop/Play etc - as they stand to be wiped out financially if 2nd hand game sales stop/become prohibitively expensive. Sony have now leapt in to put the boot in as well, and it is NOTHING to do with them loving their gaming consumers - I don't think there's a company with a worse track-record of DRM, proprietary products, connectors, formats in existence on the planet.

    Still, glad Sony have done this. I would expect that MS are frantically trying to work out how to relax their restrictions to clear up this PR nightmare before launch. Not just for 'us', but to appease the HighSt. I'd assume the line coming to them at the moment is "The PS4 is arguably more powerful, costs less and if we sell one we stand to be able to profit from reselling the buyer games in the future - WHY would you think we'll push your new console, rather than Sony's?"

    1. Piro

      Re: I didn't actually detest what MS were trying to do

      Thing is, Steam is hardware independent. You can put together whatever box you want to access it.

      It can be played offline. The games are almost always available at insane discounts.

      People comparing Xbone to Steam are missing the point somewhat.

  46. Colin Ritchie
    Pint

    My word, is that you Sony-san?

    When asked his football loyalties a Glaswegian friend of mine said "I'm not biased, I don't care who beats Rangers."

    As a Mac user for the last 20 years I have the same attitude towards M$.

    For all my misgivings about pretty much all Sony tech since the PS-1, I am very glad they just announced this new declaration of war on the Ballmerboxers.

    Lend me 10 pounds and I'll buy you a drink Mr Kazuo Hirai!

  47. Himalayaman
    Holmes

    Sony running themselves into the ground

    I guess that is what you get when a company like Sony starts to think forum posters are their customers. They have a business to run and, while their stance is brave, it will also be financial suicide. In the end the X1 will probably offer a more satisfactory way of managing your games to the iPad generation. Who the hell lends out disks or puts them on ebay anyway nowadays? The future is digital!

    1. Danny 5
      WTF?

      Re: Sony running themselves into the ground

      take those covers from your eyes, mate! Who the hell lends out disks or puts them on ebay? have you looked on ebay? Are you actually a gamer and do you have actual gaming friends? For many many years this has been standard practice amongst gamers and i'm actually astounded about your casual attitude towards it.

      Surely you're trolling? please, someone tell me he's trolling, nobody can be this blind.

  48. ColonelClaw
    Thumb Down

    For me...

    The thing that really puts me off the XBox1 the most isn't the always-on requirement (which does utterly suck), but actually it's the requirement to always have the Kinect on. That's a camera in your living room pointing right at you all the time.

    That's bloody creepy

    1. MrE
      Happy

      Re: For me...

      You could always sit there and gross out anyone who's watching by picking your nose!

  49. Gadget Rage is BAD
    Trollface

    Its pretty amusing..

    That Sony have managed to release a console which does pretty much nothing the old one did but shift around pixels faster with no new games of any note and yet they are being viewed as the winners.

    1. Armitage
      FAIL

      Re: Its pretty amusing..

      **That Nvidia / AMD have managed to release a new GFX card which does pretty much nothing the old one did but shift around pixels faster on games not worthy of any note and yet they are being viewed as the best hardware.**

      Troll harder on /b/ next time XD

      i'll grab my coat, its the 1 with the copy of ravenshield in the pocket XD

  50. Somerset John

    Sony hater!

    I have actively avoided any Sony product since their utterly contemptible treatment of their customers over the rootkit fiasco. A couple of later missteps only confirmed to me my choice was right, at the time.

    Now they have managed to rehabilitate themselves in my eyes, at least to some extent. Should I upgrade my console (Xbox 360) I will not be staying with Mickeysoft. That doesn't mean I will not watch Sony like a hawk, expecting them to screw up once again, but for now the ban on all things Sony is lifted. Not entirely transferred to the Redmond mafia, but getting close.

  51. auburnman

    Locking games to accounts

    I can see XBoxers attempting to continue game trading by having a throwaway user account for each game and trading those.

    Account: Halo9Account_95864812

    Nickname/gamertag/whatever: Halo 9

    Chuck Norris

    123 Fake Street

    Beverly Hills 90210.

    Then MS will crack down on accounts that only have one game registered to them, the internet mobs will go off their tits and someone will start a class-action lawsuit against MS for all this.

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Locking games to accounts

      No they wan't they will want their achievement points

  52. YoBenH

    Hang on.

    Why are we all claiming Sony as the new Messiah because once we've bought something we can do what we want with it? Hardly revolutionary, and a depressing sign for the games industry that it's such a big story.

    1. Blank Reg

      Re: Hang on.

      You're right. It's only something special because of Microsoft's colossal stupidity and greed. It's only a minor improvement over the policies on PS3 so it would have been little more than a footnote otherwise.

  53. Green Nigel 42
    Paris Hilton

    Steam?

    Steam introduced an online model with games without resale, so other than with respect to the DRM, spying, games cost, portability, constant validation, need to buy console & general distrust of MS, why was there not a simular outcry? Is it the size & influence that MS has on its larger gaming market share?

    1. auburnman
      Thumb Down

      Re: Steam?

      Consoles have always been about ease of use and portability. Your game would work just the same when you took it round your mates house. Locking a game to an account is a fundamental betrayal of what a console is. There has been a slide towards this with downloadable games but that came with the upsides of easy access to free demos and the like, and it was always alongside discs that could be loaned out or sold on at your whim.

      This latest step smacks of doing DRM Hollywood style - punishing paying customers with a locked down 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality which will end up pushing paying customers towards piracy.

    2. Helldesk Dogsbody

      Re: Steam?

      There was certainly enough outcry about Steam when it first launched but that's now more than 10 years ago and it was a content distribution system, not a digital distribution or DRM service. It's grown to be those as well but that's only after a lot of development and a long time. Valve have built a reputation over the years for being trustworthy and a hell of a lot more gamer centric than the vast majority of publishers. The Steam hardware survey is probably the most accurate representation of gaming system specs in the world, Valve make SDKs available for modders and actively encourage them to make what they want of the software they provide, they promote indy studios by not charging exorbitant fees to make their software available, allow download of free to play games where they make nothing and are generally the champion of the every day gamer. It hasn't always been that way as we didn't half hate them when CS 1.6 was released along with the then extremely buggy Steam platform, they've put a lot of time and effort in to building customer base and loyalty with no secret made about the fact that you simply cannot transfer games if you buy from them - then they go and hold ridiculous sales that give me an acute case of wallet cramp! Steam also doesn't require always online, once a month is sufficient then you can go offline until prompted again. They've been known to extend this period on a per account basis for services personnel deployed overseas as well. Add on top of that the fact that you can literally install and play a Steam game on any system as long as you can install it, remember your log in details and it runs a supported OS then it really isn't the same.

      In contrast, Microsoft have a reputation for shafting the consumer in general, releasing dodgy, bug ridden software (I consider new Windows launches to be an MMO beta test and Games for Windows Live has done SO well!) and hardware (RROD anyone?), change anything on a whim, already have draconian DRM (Windows reauthentication on changing hardware, seemingly triggered at random) and definitely don't show the same integrity. It isn't even an apples to oranges comparison, more a fish to bicycle one.

      BTW, Valve have about 70% of the PC digital distribution market share and offer support for three PC operating systems so far (all be it slightly limited for two of them) as well as two console platforms. I could be wrong but I believe that they may have a larger market share than Microsoft where gaming is concerned - at least with regards to software.

  54. b166er

    So Sony's USP is now that they're NOT Microsoft bwuahahahaha, I smell fear.

    (but they still want to copy the success of Live)

    I don't want a console anyway, I want an Occulus Rift and a Virtuix Omni instead :)

  55. johnbtimmons

    PS4 for today Xbox One for tommorrow

    I just don't think it is this simple. I think the xbox one is looking towards the future of the industry and not just at what people want today. have a look at my thoughts http://wjminnovate.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-go-head-to-head/

  56. TimNevins
    FAIL

    Pay to Play and no one cares?

    In all this excitement there has been no mention of Sony now charging to play online.

    Even if it allows non-gaming access free of charge this will now result in $50 per year(more if it is per account like XBL) for any kind of gaming goodness.

    So it is not all good.

    It's these kinds of artificial unjustifiable toll-bridges that make people angry.

    I've paid for the console,the broadband access and the game disc.

    But I still have to pay on top for online gaming?

    No wonder EA retired the online pass model. They knew this was coming.

    1. Obitim

      Re: Pay to Play and no one cares?

      So who pays upkeep on the servers?

      Plus, MS do this now, and at least with PS+ you get a new game every once in a while...for free!

    2. Blank Reg

      Re: Pay to Play and no one cares?

      You can blame Microsoft for that as well. Sony would not have been able to get away with it had not Microsoft shown that people are willing to get ripped off for online for years.

      But at least PS+ is a much better deal as you get so much more for your money. Also I believe this online fee is what allowed them to keep the price down so it's not all bad, especially for those that only want to play single player.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: Pay to Play and no one cares?

        Remember, in the console world, they don't allow for user-owned or -rented servers. That's why there's generally no online fees on PCs—the users themselves provide the hosting hardware, not to mention the matchmaking and so on. Those that are left are subscribed (WoW), microtransaction-based (F2Ps), or some combination of the two. Or the servers are sponsored as a means to drive hardware sales and the like.

        The console makers don't really trust user-owned servers, seeing them as a possible exploit avenue to penetrate their walled gardens.

    3. Van

      Re: Pay to Play and no one cares?

      NO, you paid a part payment for the console. That's why they need to look elsewhere to get their money back.

  57. Timmo

    What matters for me

    It does look like the Sony announcement has made my mind up. I already have all the stuff I need for a 'home media hub' I don't need or want a game system to to do that especially if it doesn't let me stream whatever format I want to the screen. I remember how long it took for Microsoft to add codecs to the 360 before I had my smart TV (which streams most stuff). I have a Kinetic, never use it, my living room is just too narrow and after the initial novelty wore off I don't care about it. My internet connection is pretty solid but I know that if just once, only once it did go off for 24 hours I would be psychotically mad that my console didn't work either. It would be a big thing for me because I would know it would be an unnecessary inconvenience and a deliberate choice by someone to put me in that position. Oh yea also there's a guy on my high street in a little shop near me. He makes a living part of which is buying and selling old games. He keeps part of my high street alive, pays local taxes that go towards local services and employs another guy. Sometimes when I can't justify buying a new game I go down there and pick some game up I would otherwise never had bought new to try out. Will Redmond be paying his dole and fixing my roads when they "Collectivise" the second hand game market ? This seems like an anti microsoft rant and maybe it is. I know Sony are in it for the money also but I'm happy they have made the choice not to follow. Now its up to consumers to show they made the right choice. PS4 for me.

  58. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    no lock in

    Microsoft has got this very wrong, and they are going to hurt because of this.

    I have an XBOX 360, but since the games won't be playable on XBOX ONE, there is no lock in. If I am going to the next gen consoles, I have a free choice - either way, I'll need to buy new games.

    To be honest, I never sold, borrowed or gave a game away, and my box was always connected to the net anyway. But given that the other console is $100 cheaper, and doesn't impose these stupid restrictions, there would need to be a really compelling reason to choose the XBOX. If it was out a year ahead of the PS4, some people might pile in anyway rather than wait. But with both coming around the same time, it's a simple head to head.

    I reckon XBOX is going to get trounced by a margin of 3 to 1, and by Feb or March, MS is going to be frantically trying to fix it with price reductions and repealing some of the onerous terms. But it will be too late. Sony has this one in the bag.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Sony has it right, this time

    I'm a big Microsoft fan. Having programmed for the PS1, PS2 and Xbox 1 (not ONE) and 2, coding for the xbox was a dream after sony's electrical engineering "documentation" and terrible tool support. I also love graphics, and the PS2 never quite cut it for me. I swore I would never have a Playstation in my home.

    But...

    Microsoft seems keen to move as far as possible away from "gamers" as it can. It completely misreads and misunderstands its audience. Games and gamers are what will decide which console is bought, and Microsoft seem to not have had their finger on the pulse. Gamers dont want always on. Gamers dont want server based single player games. They dont want their game machine to become an ad streaming box. And Microsoft seems to be blind to all this.

    And with the Prism revalations - I know I do NOT want a machine which requires internet access every 24 hours and which will lock me out of my own games when I wont let it connect. I do NOT want a machine with an always open mic. I do NOT want a machine with a 3D camera watching me which is a fundamental component and not an optional add-on.

    So, fuck you XBox One.

    (Even the name 'One' pisses me off, and is telling about how stupid Microsoft's management team are. You already had an Xbox one, and it wasnt that long ago...Its like they wanted a confusing, lack-luste hard-to-google name...)

  60. Korsibat
    Meh

    $100 difference not

    xbone(r) comes with the kinect camera which can record video , the ps4 has an optional camera to record video. After buying the Ps4 camera the prices will be about the same. Just great PR spin from Sony

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: $100 difference not

      More like 50 and the Sony is still more powerful

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: $100 difference not

        "More like 50 and the Sony is still more powerful"

        I think only 13 year olds will care it's more powerful. Many others were suckered in for the PS3 being "10 times" more powerful than the Xbox 360.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: $100 difference not

      Difference is at least you get a choice to have it or not - it's not mandatory to operate the console on PS3 or PS4...

  61. sammy_mac

    Microsoft has no need to stress

    So what if the XBox One is an instant failure. Microsoft can coast on the success of Windows 8 an the Windows phone.

    (**smirk**)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft has no need to stress

      Poor comparison. The Xboxes are heavily subsidized hardware, Sony suffered quite badly after the price reductions that enabled them to compete. 70,000 job lay offs IIRC. The PS4 simply has to be a success.

  62. Jess

    you could STILL turn it off (switch on the wall).

    Assuming they hadn't thought to put a battery in the unit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: you could STILL turn it off (switch on the wall).

      If you remember, the original xbox 1 penalised you for switching it off at the wall. It had an internal capacitor that rapidly powered down, resetting the internal clock. A switch-off at the wall meant it had the incorrect date when switched on again if left off for even just a day or two. Worse, some game saves checked their timestamp against the current date and erased saves with "impossible" dates... You had to be careful to remove your game save dongle (remember those?) before powering on an xbox that had been off.

  63. Tieger

    used games and 24hourt authentication...

    the thing is, these were (clearly!) never designed to impress consumers - they were put there to please developers. so the fact that consumers cheer to hear a console doesnt have them is hardly news. the question is how much it upsets the developers.

    its also notable that sony said there would be no 'additional' limitations - so things like online passes will, almost certainly, still exist...

    that said, i'm far more likely to get a ps4 than a xbox1 - though really, its all down to the games, and in a world without exclusives i'd happily stick with my pc.

    1. Blank Reg

      Re: used games and 24hourt authentication...

      I think it was all put in there to slow down people trying to write an Xbox One emulator for PC, otherwise I expect it would be pretty easy given the low specs of the Xbox 1 and the fact that it's now basically a PC, and not even a special PC.

      At least the PS4 has the 8GB of GDDR5 as both main and system RAM which will makes things a little more complicated for those trying to get an emulator running on a normal PC.

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This isn't a console 'war'

    A 'war' would imply a battle involving participants capable of fighting each other.

    What MSFT have done to themselves is so hopelessly silly, that can't even assert to be adequately armed. Sony have come along, done the splits in front of them, and issued one (1) Jonny Cage-style bruiser right in the balls.

    The big question is whether MSFT will have the humility to back-track and save their new console. Sadly, I'm doubting it - like most corporate projects that are pets of people in power, the internal politics and / or policy is enough to keep dumb ideas proliferating, just so long as the powers-that-be are kept happy. It does make me wonder how many engineering voices within MSFT screamed 'for the love of God, NO!' regarding the draconian DRM, but were silenced by corporate line-towing.

    It'll be costly for MSFT, and the consumer - including for me, someone who jumped in with the Xbox very, very early on. It seems those days of just popping Halo in the drive and playing are getting away from us, and that is very sad. Indeed, it's the raison d'etre for a console, isn't it?

  65. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Never been a better time.....

    To be a gamer.... unless your a PS Vita gamer, oh we forgot about you guys! How about you wait for the next E3 we might have some decent announcement for you then.... or maybe the following E3.... or maybe never!

  66. BrownishMonstr

    Pay for 2nd-Hand games rule

    I assume the rule is for multi-player games where developers such as EA already charge gamers for online-play if their game is 2nd hand. I'm not a developer but I'm sure it costs a lot to develop games so I think they do deserve some money for 2nd hand games.

    Although we might be used to developers not receiving any money from 2nd hand games I bet, given the opportunity, they would have forced this upon us ages ago.

    1. Obitim

      Re: Pay for 2nd-Hand games rule

      I agree, it's a shame the game stores don;t give some profits back to the devs

    2. Jonathan 29

      Re: Pay for 2nd-Hand games rule

      I know car analogies are a bit tedious, but seriously if a manufacturer wants to see some money from trading second hand then they should set up their own trade in programme just like the auto guys do. If they want to be paid again they should do some work for it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pay for 2nd-Hand games rule

        Car analogies are tedious because they never work.

        Car manufactures often sell many variants at cost and make money on service, parts and high end models. MS and Sony sell one model at a loss and make money on subscriptions, accessories and licensing.

        It's the loss, or your console subsidy that has them looking for more ways to make more money.

      2. BrownishMonstr

        Re: Pay for 2nd-Hand games rule

        The thing with cars is that they can sell them at whatever price they want, so as long as they can make money off of it they're fine. Games tend to be sold at the same price when they come out, regardless of the cost of development, probably due to licensing deals with console manufacturers, so they may have to sell a lot just to break even.

        Also, technically, the multiplayer games do extra work for it, they are providing you with another service--multiplayer ability, there are server, support and maintenance costs associated with them, unlike single-player games which will only have to be updated due to major bugs.

        So, the car analogy doesn't really work for multiplayer games because once the car manufacturers have sold you the car they normally won't have to fork out any more money on it. A better comparison would be if they carried out the MOT and other maintenance stuff for free, but the cost of the car was not increased.

  67. Banjo M
    WTF?

    regarding the update in the article...

    no one's complaining about games coming alive on-line, it's when they completely die off-line that's the problem

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: regarding the update in the article...

      In the PC sphere, most of the servers are user-owned, so as long as there's interest in the game, someone's going to be maintaining a server for that game. You don't see that with console games unless the games are console-hosted.

  68. Richard Boyce
    Joke

    Xbox One.1

    How long until the Xbox One.1 is announced?

  69. Maharg
    FAIL

    Somthing good? Nope...

    I read the Microsoft quote at the end as basically saying “We hope the fact we have Call of Duty first and Halo etc means that gamers will buy this in spite of all the crap we will put them through”. Unfortunately for them the games industry is full of examples of gamers going for alternatives to the ‘standard’ due to issues like pricing, un-welcome changes or just to try something different, otherwise your Sensible Soccer/Pro Evo’s of this world would not exist, and while Halo may be the biggest Alien based FPS it is no way the only one, even if COD, the biggest console game in the world was only on Xbox, there are plenty of other options to choose from,

    As for Sony being good, they haven’t they just concentrated on sticking to what the people want, rather than forcing people to do what THEY want, it shows how much of a fail Xbox have made by the fact Sony did not have to do anything at all for people to be applauding them.

    Or in other words

    PlayStation = Pepsi

    Xbox one = New Coke

  70. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Enough already..

    1. Rootkit, ok Sony shouldn't have tried it on, but your crappy MS OS shouldn't have let it happen

    2 Other OS, if some knobend hadn't tried to abuse it Sony wouldn't have removed it, what other solution should they have implemented ?

    The real story here is that for multiplayer on the PS4 you will now have to pay WTF!!! Sony must be pissing themselves with laughter, they managed to start charging for something that was free and everyone is delighted. Talk about a good day for bad news.......

    1. Maharg

      Re: Enough already..

      Another good point, will my PS3 controller work on the PS4?

    2. Obitim

      Re: Enough already..

      Well, compared to the Xbox launch...

    3. BrownishMonstr

      Re: Enough already..

      Would you provide a service where you will be losing?

  71. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is this a little high-handed or plain arrogant.....?

    "Gamers Without Internet Can Stick With Xbox 360, Says Microsoft"

    “We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360.”

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/12/gamers-without-internet-can-stick-with-xbox-360-says-microsoft

  72. SonofRojBlake
    FAIL

    I've had a difficult decision in every previous console generation going back as far as SNES.

    SNES or Megadrive? SNES.

    PS1 or Saturn? PS1.

    PS2 or XBox? PS2. (Got an Xbox later second hand for playing Halo).

    PS3 or 360? 360.

    Not saying those were the "right" choices, just my choices, made after some research, consideration, and always when the market was already established - no early adopter, me.

    But this time, uniquely, the choice seems a no-brainer before either of the new consoles has even been released. Massive, MASSIVE fail, M$.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I doubt very much they are aiming in the long term at 40 year olds like yourself. Potential gamers are being born every second.

      They also need to make money after selling you a console at a loss.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Consoles and Gaming

      SNES or Megadrive? Megadrive (my friend had an imported Super Famicom)

      PS1 or Saturn? PS1 (easy choice)

      PS2 or XBox? Neither - got a PC

      PS3 or 360? Neither - still had a PC and a Wii

      PS4 or XboxOne? PS4

  73. Joe Montana
    WTF?

    For how long?

    When it came out the ps3 was backwards compatible to the ps1/ps2, and it let you run your own software on it through the otheros feature...

    Who's to say sony aren't simply doing a bait and switch against microsoft, and will take away these features at some point in the future.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: For how long?

      IIRC this PS3 "compatibility" is being done through an OnLive-like system. As for bait-and-switch, there's still that NFC-on-the-disc patent...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: For how long?

      I'm still waiting for them to replace the GDDR5 with something cheaper. Just like they removed the most exciting feature from the PS3.

  74. MJI Silver badge

    With this article title - Sucker Punch

    Where does it say?

    INFAMOUS : Second Son

  75. John117
    Trollface

    Currently, I own three consoles (XBOX 360, PS 3, and a Wii). The XBox is my preferred platform due to the games. I was eagerly waiting to purchase the XBox One, but after reading about MSFT's licensing model and the 24hr network connection requirement, I will forgo that purchase and look forward to playing on the PS4.

    The new restrictions really don't affect me, as I do not resell my games, nor purchase used games, and I always have internet connection. However, I do rent games that look interesting to "test drive" and see if it is worth purchasing. Also, I sometimes do play off line when I take long trips with my kids and will not have an internet connection.

    Recently, Microsoft has had a string of failures like Windows 2000, Vista, Windows Phone, Windows Slate, Windows 8, and now the XBox One. Ultimately Ballmer should take ownership for these bad decisions and resign.

    1. Master Rod

      Get a life!.............Fool

      Master Rod

  76. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Xbox One e3 fakery.

    https://plus.google.com/104083665927539710960/posts/TGUeiATbaBc

    It also seems Microsoft thinks windows 7 is a better choice than windows 8.

    Each time I believe it can't get any worse for Microsoft it does.

  77. Master Rod

    Gamers, what a myth. All this bullshit can be done on a PC, or laptop.. Oh look, i have a cell phone, oh look, I have a game boy, oh look.....who gives a shit! It is nothing more than a nickel and dime ploy by these tech trash. Get a life, and a job. Support a family, and pay your bills. All this is nonsense. Go out and get some sun and excercise, you fat bastids.....

    Master Rod

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