back to article Microsoft announces $499 price tag, new games for Xbox One

Microsoft has used the annual E3 gaming conference in Los Angeles to announce the launch pricing for its new Xbox console and – surprise, surprise – it's UK gamers who will be paying more than anyone else for the kit. US consumers will pay $499 for a bundle including the Xbox, Kinect gesture control system, and a single Xbox …

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  1. Scott 67
    Thumb Down

    As you can imagine this didn't go down so well, if it weren't for £429 for a glorified licence on a console you hardly own anything on....they would have succeeded hard

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Daniel B.
        FAIL

        Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

        Add to it that the XBox had already pimped gamers for far too long with charging for online play (that's sooooo 1996), it seems that they finally have put the final nail in the XBox coffin.

        And with Windows 8 being the massive boat of FAIL, this means they're really going down this time!

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        2. Mark .

          Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

          Yes the X Box has been such a massive fail. And with 100 million licences, Windows 8 is such a fail.

          Seriously - I was criticising MS before it was trendy back in the 90s, and I have no opinion when it comes to X Box vs Playstation but let's try to have some objectivity. If there's something worse than people predicting a fail and then being wrong, it's when people try to claim it's a fail even when it's already turned out not to be the case. Yet I bet you think iphone's one million sales taking 76 days was an amazing success.

          And remember, the people who want to play games but don't like locked down systems aren't buying consoles, they're buying PCs (most of them running the OS that you don't like). I don't like how most consolves have been locked down (rare exceptions being the upcoming Ouya, or I don't know, the 1993 Amiga CD32).

        3. Mark .

          Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

          PS - apologies if your post was actually a parody. I honestly can't tell (Poe's law).

      2. Greg J Preece

        Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

        The One is such a piece of DRM'd shit that Eadon doesn't even get downvoted for calling it crap.

        1. Can't think of anything witty...
          Facepalm

          Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

          @Eadon - Be careful. people are agreeing with you, we know that this is new territory for you. good luck in the brave new world.

          Joking aside, I generally liked quite a few of the last round of MS products. Windows 7 is great and although i haven't used Win8 a lot, it seems ok, even if the modern UI / start button issue was a bit iffy. I've got a WP8 phone, and i really like that as well.

          X360 is good, and i don't mind paying for live (for about £30/year i feel that i got value out of it). i buy pretty much all of my X360 games new, and it is left in the front room connected to the internet via a fairly stable (certainly stable enough) connection.

          and yet.

          I cannot see myself getting an XBOX one as it is currently. I've not really heard anything about the games or any new features apart from the DRM. i guess that companies need to try new stuff every once in a while, but MS have definitely gone too far with the DRM on their games. it just swings the balance too far in their favour and i'm not sure that people will go with it.

          It's got me seriously considering a playstation for the first time in 15 years...

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

            " I generally liked quite a few of the last round of MS products. Windows 7 is great"

            It's a sad state of affairs when people call something like Windows 7 "great". I've used windows 7, and it's much better than any of the previous efforts, and crashes less, It's tolerable, but then I'm using a double core 4GB ram system.

            The GUI is great, but the actual OS still suffers from the crap that it's always suffered from. The ridiculous RAM requirement - the inefficient disk swapping - the general disk I/O - the fact they still use a 'defragmented disk' scheme rather than a 'defragmented file' scheme, causing terrible defragmentation. Still, in this day and age, an OS that gets slower just because you install stuff on it.

            The OS part of windows is still in the stone age. It's not so noticeable these days because systems have lots of RAM, fast CPU's, and fast/quiet disks - but the problems still exist.

      3. shawnfromnh
        FAIL

        Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

        ""too many school kids out there will guarantee that enough sales will happen for MS""

        In the US it won't. Most kids don't have jobs, their parents salaries/paychecks have been stagnant for years, and the college kids are broke for the most part also and are going to be in debt for years.

        As for me I hate MMO no matter what. I don't play well with others.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

          Re: XBox - is a Licence fee

          Just watched the video - haven't properly lol'd for weeks until now :D priceless advertising for Sony.

          All they need to now is sit back, not fuck up, and watch M$ tie themselves in knots trying to undo the damage they have done.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      this sums it up

      Can't really add anything

      http://www.destructoid.com//ul/255967-image.jpg

      1. Thomas 4

        Re: this sums it up

        This particular video has been doing brisk business on the interwebs this morning:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kWSIFh8ICaA

        *snerk*

        1. Rhiakath Flanders

          Re: this sums it up

          Just watched the video...

          Oh, fuck, SO owned!!!!!

          I have two xbox 360, and i must say.... Next console will be a PS4...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: this sums it up

          > This particular video has been doing brisk business on the interwebs this morning:

          That is so friggin's awesome :D

          Brought a smile to my face.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Comparing like with like

    UK price is actually £357.50 + £71.50 tax, the US price quoted $499 does not include sales tax. So UK is paying 10% than USA more comparing like with like. Interesting to see if retailer sell at list price or if the list price is intended to allow for discounts.

    Still not seen many reasons to buy until there are more games and price goes down next year.

    Next lets see what Sony have to say about PS4.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Comparing like with like

      Some states do not have sales tax and you can order online from a plethora of retailers so that you can get free shipping and no sales tax. So, there is a good chance there is no sales tax to add.

      1. R 11

        Re: Comparing like with like

        Only a handful of states have no sales tax, while half of all states impose a 'use tax' on internet purchases. Of course many do not pay this tax, but not paying does not mean you're not supposed to pay.

        On top of that, Amazon charges sales tax in nine states (yes there are other online retailers, but they are certainly the largest) so your good chance of not being taxed might not be as good as you first thought.

      2. Zola
        FAIL

        Re: Comparing like with like

        The average US sales tax is only 5%, or $25 on a $499 XBox, so with 5% tax included Microsoft are still charging over £90/€100 markup on the US price. And as already posted above, it's easy to avoid paying the local state sales tax entirely.

        1. Don Jefe
          Happy

          Re: Comparing like with like

          That 5% figure is based on fairly skewed numbers. Some states do not have sales tax at all. Where I'm at I pay 7% State sales tax, 2% county sales tax and a 1.35% city sales tax.

          Your points are totally valid, I just wanted to point out the US sales tax laws are screwy and published sales tax averages rarely give a complete outline of the situation. The places with no sales tax are generally lower population states but their impact on the averages is quite large.

    2. M Gale

      Re: Comparing like with like

      Next lets see what Sony have to say about PS4.

      I dunno. Maybe the boss might just walk on, say "$299", and walk off again? Not like it hasn't happened before. And then the year after.

      1. LAGMonkey
        Alert

        Re: Comparing like with like

        $399... no restrictions on sharing and after market.... no always connected DRM...

        *walks off*

        thats basically what i saw when i watched the coverage. Sony has this one in the bag even tho i still have not forgiven them for the PS3 "other OS" fuster-cluck.

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/06/10/sony-confirms-no-changes-to-used-games-on-ps4-no-internet-connection-required/

        1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

          Re: Comparing like with like

          So I guess that's that for MS then.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Comparing like with like

        Sony just destroyed Microsoft. Better hardware specs lower price no restrictions and PS3 backwards compatibility BOOM

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Comparing like with like

          > PS3 backwards compatibility

          I didn't think that the new Playstation was going to be PS3 compatible (if you mean games).

          The new console is x86-based and nothing like Cell.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Thumb Up

            Re: Comparing like with like

            > I didn't think that the new Playstation was going to be PS3 compatible

            Ah, strike that, just seen the new streaming option.

          2. Rufusstan

            Re: Comparing like with like

            They have not come out and said upfront that it is going to happen, but are talking about some kind of streaming/emulation -- through Gaikai (which they just happen to own now). Wont be until next year at least, or how it works in practice.....The whole do I use games I already own for free or have to rebuy? hasn't been mentioned yet.

    3. Scrumble

      Re: Comparing like with like

      Okay, so before tax in the UK it is £357, at todays currency rates that means the equivalent in the US should be $556, or working the other way $499 in the USA would be £320. "But that's only £37 difference" if the One sells as many as the 360 in the UK, thats 8m units x £37 = £296m extra profit.

      1. JC_

        Re: Comparing like with like

        the One sells as many as the 360 in the UK, that's 8m units x £37 = £296m extra profit.

        Only if all other things are equal, which they aren't.

        For example, you like those consumer protection laws in the UK that ensure a product has to be fit for purpose? I certainly do, but there's a price to pay in preventing manufacturers from saying "tough shit" when something expensive breaks down after 366 days and that will be included in the inflated number.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Comparing like with like

      So, PS4 launches at £349 (UK including tax), $399 (US excluding). PlayStation Camera is £44 ($59). So like for like (sort of) its XBO at £429 v PS4 at £383.

      Not a huge difference but why the hell Microsoft didn't launch at £399? They will spend far more than £30/unit on extra advertising to try to counter the used games messaging fiasco.

  3. Don Jefe

    Extras

    Does it include an updated Red Ring of Death feature? The only reason I won't preorder one is the miserable experience I had getting my 1st gen 360 sorted out. I'll wait a while thank you.

  4. Herby Silver badge
    Joke

    But??

    Does it run Windows Vista??

    1. Rukario
      Devil

      Re: But??

      Nope, it runs Windows 8, Special Eadon Edition.

      1. LinkOfHyrule
        Paris Hilton

        Re: But??

        But its a "Walled Garden" of Eadon!

  5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    including VAT/Sales taxes?

    Just out of curiosity, what taxes are included in those headline prices?

    US prices are usually advertised sans sales tax as that varies from state to states and even city to city.

    Quoting a "European" price without mentioning if it is sans tax is odd too as VAT varies from country to country.

    Are we to assume that the quoted prices are all sans VAT/sales tax and therefore will be significant;y higher?

    It'd be nice if this sort of things was made more clear in Reg articles. It seems to me that this is rarely the case and smells of sloppiness.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: including VAT/Sales taxes?

      It's illegal to advertise consumer products without VAT.

      You have to claim that you are a trade supplier most of your customers are VAT registered to get away with it (cough ebyuer cough)

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: including VAT/Sales taxes?

        "It's illegal to advertise consumer products without VAT."

        True. But I was commenting on a Reg article purporting to compare prices and which had an underlying agenda of "look, Brits are being ripped off again!"

    2. Scrumble

      Re: including VAT/Sales taxes?

      Even allowing for VAT on UK prices, there is a £37 mark up on what they sell for in the US.

  6. Belardi
    FAIL

    So, does everyone else smell the fear and desperation that is Microsoft...?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Microsoft is including a free 14-day trial of Xbox Live Gold for new buyers, and all Gold subscribers will get two free Xbox 360 game downloads per month until the end of the year. That won't be much help for new console buyers, since the 360 titles aren't compatible with the new system."

    Yep, sounds like something Microsoft would do. They listen to the customers and then ignore it as well. So the chance of this getting fixed is slim to none.

    Microsoft really just continues to show that they are out of touch with the consumer. If this fails, does that mean Balmer goes too?

    1. Don Jefe

      Come on man. Be reasonable, 14 days of Xbox Live is a $4.99 value! What else can they do to get you to spend your $500 and replace your game collection? What do you want, backwards compatibility or some pie in the sky shit like that?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Middle of the Atlantic tax

    Ships and planes cost money. Or, they can just be floated across from Calais for free.

  9. W.O.Frobozz

    Heh.

    I have two friends who are Xbox 360 fanboys to the extreme. The XBone has done the unthinkable...alienated and angered them both and the silly thing isn't even out on the streets yet. The one guy, someone who hates Sony up and down, told me that he'd consider looking at the PS4.

    At this point Sony would have to make a real effort to screw up. But given Sony...

    1. Rukario
      Pirate

      Re: XBone

      Is that XB-one, X-Bone, or Crossbone?

      1. Tomato42 Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: XBone

        it's read x-bone, I let you figure out why yourself

        1. Thomas 4

          Re: XBone

          I read it as XBoned, because this console is royally.

    2. Aldous
      FAIL

      Re: Heh.

      In a similar boat. Not a fanboy for console brands but went for a 360 over ps3 due to Sony's historic shafting of Europe with the ps2 (huge delays, huge pricing and a general screw you attitude).

      Microsoft have resorted to type: mandatory connect, once daily internet check (took me 8 weeks to get a connection when moving house) and 10 user limit are all pointless dick moves. Not sure if i will get a PS4 or return to PC only again but will not be buying an xbone

  10. Zola
    Go

    XBox One: Too expensive, too restrictive, heading for a FAIL

    If Sony can significantly undercut Microsoft with the price of the PS4, and avoid blowing their own feet off by repeating Microsoft's mistake with overly restrictive DRM and killing the pre-owned market, then Sony will have a huge advantage when they come to market.

    Sony now has a golden opportunity to outmanoeuvre Microsoft on price and policy, however I have a sneaking suspicion they'll stuff it up on both counts.

    Overpriced consoles, £50 games that you don't really own, and require an always-on connection just to play - if this is what comes to pass with both Sony and Microsoft I think it's most likely the beginning of the end for the high end games consoles. It's going to be much cheaper and just as much fun to own (really own) and play something like an Ouya, or Gamestick (under £100 to buy, with £5 games etc.).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: XBox One: Too expensive, too restrictive, heading for a FAIL

      They just did this. They also thrown in ps3 game streaming too, and ps* gives you free games.

    2. chr0m4t1c

      Re: XBox One: Too expensive, too restrictive, heading for a FAIL

      As already noted, Sony have just done this.

      I expect I'll end up with both consoles over time (I have XBox360 & PS3 already), but I'm now definitely ordering the PS4 first. In fact, I'm going to see how the DRM stuff pans out in practice before I order the new XB, so I may not buy one for several years (if at all).

      I don't play games online, so I don't need to have a subscription to PSN, but I'm thoroughly unimpressed that I'd need XB Gold to be able to use half the functionality of the XB1.

      Seriously, what's up with MS these days? They bring out a half decent mobile OS and then ruin their desktop OS by plastering the unsuitable interface all over it and now they've taken a decent gaming system and then tied it's feet together before asking it to run a sprint race against it's main competitor.

      Has someone told them people often root for the plucky underdog so they're now trying to become the underdog to gain public approval?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    PRISM+M$ why would you buy one to support the NSA/GCHQ maybe ? - dumb fcuk

  12. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  13. Chairo
    Mushroom

    it's UK gamers who will be paying more than anyone else

    <troll>

    Is that due to the huge localizsation effort required to translate the menus to British English? Or do they calculate the price on the sheep/human ratio of the country? Hmm, no, Australia and the Kiwis have a higher ratio...

    Btw. Will the XBox One have some country code system to make sure you cannot use it in another country? Using some IP address locator service, it should be trivial to implement. It would also fit the "general spirit" of this console.

    </troll>

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    2. Richard Gadsden

      Re: it's UK gamers who will be paying more than anyone else

      Hey, Windows 8 has favourites in internet explorer now. Don't knock their localisation; only took them 18 years to get there.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interesting that Sony have decided to charge for multiplayer service on the PS4.

    Genuinely not sure what to go for....might wait for Steam box. But i do find the Kinect/Skype package quite compelling. Depends what is available here in HK first

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Sony have decided to charge for multiplayer service on the PS4"

      Not quite, PS+ is now needed for Multiplayer. That's not bad thing. Have you seen how much you get for free? Loads of AAA rated titles, and also lesser known titles well worth a look...

      I really don't care they are charging for PS+ as PS+ was an essential purchase anyway...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The XB1 is irrelevant now...

    ...PS4 fully supports the used game market. Has no always-on restriction. Just announced.

    Bite me, Microsoft.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who says Microsoft isn't listening.

    and watching.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    hmm...

    Presumably the US price wont include local sakes tax and the UK/EU price will? This is something that always confuses me in America, when you pick something off the shelf for one price and are charged another at the till...

  18. Confuciousmobil
    Pint

    It's terrible

    I know I should wait for the price to come down or for the PS4, but I had my 360 for nearly a year before the PS3.

    All my devices are always connected anyway, if yours aren't you really should try joining the 21st C

    Not sure I'm that keen on the DRM but it probably won't affect me and the price could be cheaper - but how much is a top of the range graphics card for your PC (cue flames).

    Have fun you guys, I will with an xbone.

    1. Colin Ritchie
      Windows

      Re: It's terrible

      The pc GFX card equal to the Xbone's GPU is the AMD Radeon 7790, which retails for $149 in the USA.

      It is a mid range card with mediocre performance compared to the $400 behemoths available from both AMD and Nvidia.

      Looks like M$ just Xboned the console market again....

      1. Colin Ritchie
        Windows

        Re: It's terrible

        Guessing the Xboys don't like the inference that their next gen console is made out of cheap PC hardware, I can refer you to another source:

        http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare

        I ain't making this crap up folks, M$ love a good profit margin as much as Apple do.

      2. Paul Shirley

        @Colin Ritchie:$400 behemoths

        Even those $400 behemoths are sitting on the wrong side of a PCIe bus. Unified memory doesn't just make programming simpler, it significantly improves performance on at least some tasks. The GPU might well be 'mediocre' in a PC architecture, it will work a lot better in the XBone/PS4 architecture - especially with DDR5 in the PS4.

        Only the integrated GPUs in PC builds could compete but they truly are low end crap running with DDR3. It's just a matter of time till someone ships a similar APU in a real PC though. Maybe time left for Steam to rework the Steam Box ;)

        1. Colin Ritchie
          Windows

          Re: @Colin Ritchie:$400 behemoths

          I agree, a dedicated GPU on the same die as the CPU, specifically designed for playing games, will do a better job at playing games. I wasn't claiming that the same hardware in a PC will perform as well in that task specifically. My statement was purely about how much that hardware costs, nothing more. How the Xbone utilizes it is down to the architecture and the programming, not the price.

          The cost price of the components will be far less to M$ than to a retail buyer of the same components for their PC. An 8 core AMD CPU and a 7790 GFX card will rush a punter about $300, I assume M$ will pay less than half that, especially as they come on the same die. I would also expect the profit margin on an Xbone to be above 50% even before M$ shaft their loyal punters with punitive DRM and extortionate new game price. Monkey boy will be creaming himself if he gets away with this cash cow herd model and his position as head milker will be secure till retirement.

          I have one more concern for APU tech with such high performance potential: heat dissipation. I sincerely hope they have got that right, otherwise the red ring of death may be a "feature" of Xbox architecture once again.

    2. Danny 5
      Trollface

      Re: It's terrible

      I'm sure you and the other three people buying it will have a blast.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's terrible

      Yeah you have fun... when your internet goes down for a few days or god forbid you move house... Took over 6 weeks to get broadband on when I moved into my current place. Hope you enjoy staring at your over priced ugly DRM-box when it won't let you play any games!

    4. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: It's terrible

      " if yours aren't you really should try joining the 21st C"

      twunt

  19. kdh0009
    FAIL

    Yikes! $100 more than the PS4, phone-home requirement (unlike PS4) and second-hand game restrictions (unlike PS4)...

    MICROSOFT NOT GIVING THE FANS WHAT THEY WANT FAIL

    1. Greg J Preece

      Eadon, come on. We know that's you. Your template is so obvious, I could write a Twat-o-Tron for it.

      Actually....

      1. kdh0009
        Coat

        Perhaps a little too self-indulgent...

        I'm not actually so anti-Microsoft, but they deserve it this time.

        I kinda wonder what they would have done if Sony had come out with their sales pitch first? Would they have tried to change anything? Or just gone out there and said "Erm yeah, it's more expensive and more restrictive, and you need a subscription - i'll get my coat"

        Promises not to mock ElReg's most capitalised contributor again

  20. Davie Dee

    I usually stick up for MS, whilst I don't always agree with this methods, the logic is usually sound.

    I do however find myself wondering what the deal is with this, the idea of the XB one looks exactly what I want, but I wouldn't even consider it at that price point. the after sales guff is all a bit of FUD, you will buy the games one way or another IF you own the console. The fail as far as I can see is that I don't own a console, and whilst I would have gotten a XB One I wont at that price. I suspect there are many other users out there that feel the same. I did buy the original XB, and modded it as you do, but the shafting we got when the 360 came out despite the significantly improved console, didn't make me want to buy it then... I feel the same way about the One now.

    MS should take a leaf out of printer manufactures. charge £30 for the printer with half empty carts and £40 to replace them with newer ones. They make a mint off the carts and run the printers cheap, probably at a loss!

    Nope, ill stick to my big-ol HTPC for now with its 360 controller does what I want, and the size and noise isn't too bad.

  21. teapot9999
    WTF?

    if you don't like it.....

    then do not buy one - simples!

  22. chiller

    MS - a stumbling drunk

    I have owned every Xbox and Playstation ever released at one time or other but I cannot see myself purchasing the new Xbox. Who is making the decisions at MS? They stumble from one stupid decision to another like a pissed up old fart in the street, Windows, Office and now this - why has nobody been sacked? Why is that fist pumping idiot still in charge?

    Sony can really benefit from all this but history tells us that is unlikely, I hope I am wrong.

    I hope MS 'listen to their customers' and make changes to make the Xbox one an attractive option, will stick with my PC and Steam for now.

  23. Piro

    So, what do we have here?

    PS4 Pros:

    More powerful GPU

    No DRM on used games

    No Region lock

    No camera always on requirement

    $100 less

    Xbone Pros:

    Controller is almost certainly more comfortable

    So overall that's an easy PlayStation 4 win.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No thanks

    I'll be getting the PS4 then. Nearly a ton cheaper and it looks so much nicer than the One. \o/ w1nx0r \o/

  25. Sil
    Unhappy

    Too pricey in Europe

    The xbox should be priced at EUR 299 in Europe, which is USD 399 at today's conversion rate.

    No way the Europeans will accept the 33% price hike on their us counterparts especially as the crisis will in all probability still be there for Christmas 2013.

    1. qwarty

      Re: Too pricey in Europe

      Arithmetic. How many time do we have to say the UK prices quoted include (high) sales tax but the US prices don't. The price is actually about 10% higher in UK. We can blame Microsoft or Sony for many things but hardly the 20% of our cash claimed by our government.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Too pricey in Europe

        "The price is actually about 10% higher in UK."

        So why 10% higher in the UK? It's not like they sell them cheaper in the local market due to shipping costs. The boxes come from the Far East anyway. That's not to mention the general difference in standards/cost of living and disposable income.

  26. goldcd

    Personally

    I don't have an issue with either price - OK the Xbox costs more, but it does have the mandatory Kinect thrown in now. Always online, well all my stuff is anyway. Never bought or sold a game second hand, so that's another one ticked off.

    However, where I think Xbox are going to get royally bitten on their arse is over the 2nd hand games/locking to individual user accounts. All those shops on my high st seem to be surviving solely on their 2nd hand/trade-in market - bringing in a game and cash and walking out with another game is pretty much the only area where Amazon will never come up with a simpler/quicker solution.

    I would have thought these retailers are going to be massively favouring the PS4 and pushing it over the XBO at every opportunity - as every sale they make is going to be supporting their collective future.

    Reality of course is that the PS4 will descend into a mess of 'online passes' that you have to buy individually for each 2nd hand game you buy as is the case already with the Vita, but that's not their problem.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Personally

      Amazing how Microsoft could take the positive feature "buy your game online and have option to transfer rights to a friend or sell those rights to a store" and turn it into a confusing story about physical media sales.

      Agree its likely the reality of PS4 will turn into a mess of passes which may or may not end up worse than the unified Microsoft system.

      Personally speaking, I like whats being done with Kinect and other online orientated features of XBox but can't see buying either console until 2014 by which time pricing and features should have settled down so can make a rational comparison which to buy first.

    2. jason 7

      Re: Personally

      @goldcd

      I'm kind of in the same boat. I don't swap games or buy second hand stuff much so the DRM doesn't affect me at all. In fact in reality it probably wont affect as many folks as everyone is saying. But I am amazed at how complicated a company can make stuff.

      MS seems to want to Apply Adobe's old upgrade/licensing methodology to all its products in basically confusing the hell out of them all.

      MS really needs to look at all this feedback and essentially dump anything that a consumer would have to read at least twice to understand.

    3. RetroTom

      Re: Personally

      Sony could try forcing this by disallowing such systems in their TCRs, that would be a solid statement of win for the customer.

      If Sony can do that, and manage to prize some of the key sports licenses away from EA Games then Microsoft may as well melt down every box it has built so far and cut its losses selling off the parts for scrap.

    4. Greg J Preece

      Re: Personally

      Reality of course is that the PS4 will descend into a mess of 'online passes' that you have to buy individually for each 2nd hand game you buy as is the case already with the Vita, but that's not their problem.

      EA have announced recently that not only are they ditching that crap, but you'll be given free codes retroactively for games that had that crap. Hopefully others will follow suit.

  27. Shrimpling

    There is one reason the Xbox One will sell...

    "exclusive Call of Duty content at launch"

    Doesn't mean I will be buying one though.

    1. NoOnions
      Unhappy

      Forza

      For me I'll miss Forza, but I'm not buying a Xbox One unless MS do some serious back-pedalling.

      Checking EVERY day that you own the game and give you permission to play it? F-off MS.

      1. Piro

        Re: Forza

        This is my exact predicament.

        Forza 4 is clearly a fantastic racing game, easy to argue that it's better than Gran Turismo 5.

        The news that the Gran Turismo 6 is going to launch as a PS3 game is sad.

        That means if they do a conversion for PS4 later, they'll just tinker with the resolution a bit and call it done - a launch day Gran Turismo 6 that looked absolutely incredible would easily be enough for me to buy a PS4.

        That said, I really hate having the left stick in the middle of the controller, especially for racing games.

        Just need an adapter for the Xbone Controller to work with the PS4..

        I'll totally pass on the Xbone, though. Microsoft, you're just making a tit of yourself.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

          Re: Forza

          Assuming XBone tanks like we expect it to, don't expect the publishers will stick to their exclusive licencing - they will make software for whatever will bring them the most money.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BBC has done a basic comparison....

    ... enough that this twice over Xbox 360 owner feels the PS4 looks the better deal right now :-.

    1. PS4 is quite a bit cheaper, even if calculating sales-tax / VAT has yet to be accounted for.

    2. No enforced Kinect. I don't want it, even if MS provides clear instructions for disabling it permanently!

    3. Second hand games are ok. Crucial for me and as its easy to get stuck with a game that's only QTE!

    4. No always-on net. No authentication via the internet so games can continue to be played indefinitely.

    5. Support for Indie Game industry. "Indie Developers Speak Out Against Microsoft, Praise the Competition". Crucial for me as a games developer. Crucial for innovation too as the Triple-A game line-up of the past year was as rewarding as sequel / reboot / marvel comics surprises from Hollywood....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22850409

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: BBC has done a basic comparison....

      Disks are authenticated each time we play, unlike you I've no problem with online although some fallback in case of > 24 hour net outage for games that don't have an online element would be a desirable addition.

      What has the fact you don't want to use kinect have anything to do with anything? (hint: your reasons might)

      Depending on which rumours you believe, the situation for Indie devs may be better on Xbox. We should hear more later in the month at the Build conference.

      That aside, as an Xbox and PS3 user, PS4 looks to have won the first round in the battle to part me from my cash. Microsoft need to come up with something between now and November to stay in the game IMO.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: BBC has done a basic comparison....

        #1. "Depending on which rumours you believe, the situation for Indie devs may be better on Xbox."....... Do you have links to back that up? Not to defend Sony but it is explicitly stating it will support Indie whereas MS is explicitly stating it will support Triple-A developers. The COD or Halo games have gone as far as they can IMHO. We need new ideas, otherwise it just going to feel like sequel / remake / reboot Hollywood hell.

        #2. "unlike you I've no problem with online although some fallback in case of > 24 hour net outage"......... A 24-hour authentication window is ridiculous. Building work in your street can kill a net connecting for 2 to 3 days. A week minimum is best. Plus it would mean you could bring the AdBox1 on holiday if you wanted.

        #3. "What has the fact you don't want to use kinect have anything to do with anything? (hint: your reasons might)"....... I don't understand why Kinect is mandatory. Have you experience with Kinect? If so please share. I'd like to know how it ads to the FPS or Driving game experience, in particular i.e. COD series, Far Cry 3, Hitman series, Dishonored, Bioshock, Forza or the soon to be released Watch Dogs & GTA V...

  29. The Alpha Klutz

    UGLY

    The new Xbox, and the new playstation, really are the ugliest consoles to date. These things never looked "good" but now they really do look bad. They could have put SOME effort into the design and realised that these items go into peoples houses, but no, for your £400 you get the cheapest of cheap plastics. At least Apple would give you some aluminium for that price. Fucking hell.

    1. Piro

      Re: UGLY

      To be fair, re: aluminium - they're putting some costly hardware in the box already, so I'd rather they'd spend the money there.

      But I agree that they're both pretty ugly.

      1. The Alpha Klutz

        Re: UGLY

        The hardware is costly, now.

        But in 2 years it will be commodity and Apple will sell it in a sexy case. I suppose 2 years is an eternity to wait for the gamer demographic so it probably won't affect sales. At least not among their core demographic. But this thing *is* a locked down PC with off the shelf parts: AMD probably will sell you the same chip (or better) through eBuyer in a year or two. Is it that long to wait?

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    No Backwards Compatibility

    does it for me, if I can't use my existing collection of games on it, then there's no reason to stick to an X-box in the future. It's a good way to remove any lingering brand loyalty.

    So now I've actually got the luxury of being able to choose a console on it's merits. I think my take on this one will be to sit back for a year or so after they've both launched & let everyone else find out for me before deciding which (if any) to bother with.....

  31. annodomini2 Bronze badge
    FAIL

    Nelson special

    Ha-Ha!

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft have lost the way

    $499=£320, but Brits must pay £429, a 30% premium. And you can't buy your own games (because you can't give them away). And it cost £80 more than the forthcoming PS4. Following on from Windows 8 and the no start menu gaff, it looks like Microsoft have lost the way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft have lost the way

      VAT. Your government makes you pay a 20% premium. Not Microsoft. Not Sony.

  33. __________
    FAIL

    I wonder when that Steam Console starts up ...

    If it keeps the offline mode, then, with the more open hardware approach, that seems more tempting

    ..

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't bother....

    Just buy a gaming PC.

    I know this is against the grain, but why would you buy a locked down, glorified PC in an overpriced box when you can buy a reasonable gaming PC NOW, not Xmas 2013 for the same money. The real kicker is, this PC can be used for whatever you want, games/streaming/emailing/bacefook and it's upgradable.

    This is the flaw in both companies plans to me. I've worked in IT all my life, I used to PC game, but after so long in this arena, I just wanted a 'turn on and play' solution when it came to fun time, so I bought consoles. Now I am looking at the price, the disadvantages and thinking that it's gone full circle and it's time to move back the PC. Even taking into account the upgrades, the drivers, directx - I still feel it will be worth the hassle. Not only that, but the same game for the PC, (if available) tends to be cheaper than the console variant.

    1. Piro

      Re: Don't bother....

      You're mostly likely preaching to those who have a gaming PC and a Steam account already.

      Doesn't avoid the fact that there are often exclusives on consoles people actually want.

      The unwashed masses do want a simple gaming box, and I'm afraid the Xbone with its rubbish DRM is not that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't bother....

      I take your point but:

      I have an XBox360 that I purchased in 2005 - over 7 years ago. I'm currently playing Forza4 which looks and runs fantastically. I'm looking forward to GTA5 later this year which is shaping up to be a very good game visually (and, I'm sure, in many other ways).

      I also have a gaming PC from 2005 that was considered top of the range at that time. Can I play ANY of the latest crop of games on it? No? In fact, from about 2007 it has been below-par for almost all new releases.

      So your logic is fine, as long as you're willing to either not buy new games after about the first 24 months of owning your PC or if you're willing to significantly upgrade/replace it every few years.

      Or have I missed something?

      1. Piro

        Re: Don't bother....

        Forza 4 is an exclusive, though. Great game. Have an Xbox 360 which I use solely for this, really.

        Sometimes you have to get a console for the exclusives you want.

        I am surprised to hear your launch Xenon still works, though.

        I had a Xenon, it red ringed, repaired, died.

        Then had another Xenon, red ringed, died.

        Now I have an early Jasper with the die shrinks AND the RMA heatsink. (Picked it out for this very reason, I figure it's going to have the best chance of any pre-slim to survive. I don't want a slim, I sit my monitor on the 360, it'd block the fan intake).

        I don't even play 360 often AT ALL. I don't play any FPS games, I don't play online, I just fire up Forza 4 now and then. So I don't know why the pissing things kept dying. It's not like I kept them in an enclosed space, or on their side..

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't bother....

          "I am surprised to hear your launch Xenon still works, though."

          You and me both! :) It RROD'd within the first month and was replaced (by Game in Swindon) but since then, no issues whatsoever apart from the occasional game hang (a friend of mine says this happens to his 6 month old 360 so I'm assuming this is possibly software related) - I'm definitely one of the lucky ones!

          It's a Core rather than a Premium version and has stood on its end on a shelf since 2005, only being moved a couple of times to paint the wall behind it! It gets used a few times a week - probably a total of 1-3 hours each time.

          Anyway - not sure what to do about the Xbox One - I'm reluctant to move back to a PS but don't fancy being so blatantly bent over by MS, regardless of whether I think the DRM and phone-home aspects would affect me. Sometimes it's the principle isn't it?

  35. maltek
    Thumb Down

    Microsoft Vs Sony

    It seems that with some of the decisions Microsoft have made recently that they have a death wish,thankfully Sony is listening to what gamers want rather than the attitude this is what you get ,live with it. Have X360 & Ps3,

    will buy PS4 but not the new Xbox one.Microsoft are now too damm greedy a company screwing every penny out of people,why should I have to have Gold to view Netflix or Lovefilm when I have already paid my subscription,I can on the PS3 with no extra charge.After the cockups with Vista,Win8 I think this is another one to add to the list.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    It could be the end of the Xbox road for me...

    ...and I say so as a long-term and loyal user. I had the first Xbox from the first UK price drop (even getting an early disc-scratcher - remember those?), scraping together the money as a hard-up shop assistant. And I loved it. Really did. Then the 360 came along. I didn't bite at first, but then I saw the first wave of decent games coming along, and I went for it. I've been through the red-ring rite of passage (oo-er), and also just plain knackered one out.

    Now, this. Hmmm.

    Previously, two properties made considering anything other than an Xbox a non-starter : Halo, and Gears Of War. Two universes I love. I was prepared to take a couple of knocks on the consumer chin to keep playing.

    Now, that knock feels more like a Frank Bruno special, delivered right on the kisser. It's more than I can take. More than I *should* take. The Xbox One already feels like it's being sold in contempt of the customer; 'it's not yours, none of this is yours, you're just borrowing it'.

    Really? I've been a loyal customer for years, piling money into hardware and games, and now my console is shackled because I have an ISP issue or something? That doesn't seem to be serving anyone other than Microsoft, and we're paying a premium for the 'pleasure'. Trading a game in shouldn't take any process than: hand over at counter > get something else. I don't do it much, if at all, but the option is nice.

    I can't in good conscience put my money and support behind such a system. I'll miss Halo and GOW, and all the other stuff I discovered and loved - but unless MS make a pretty rapid 360 (pun intended), I can see many thousands of informed consumers coming to the same conclusion.

    1. NoOnions

      Re: It could be the end of the Xbox road for me...

      Upvote - as I agree. However, bad pun! 360° and MS are right back where they started from! ;-)

  37. Nanners
    FAIL

    AAAAANNNNNNDDDD....

    They just killed the xbox. What's next microtool?

  38. MACWINLINO
    FAIL

    Congrats MS

    Congratulations Microsoft, you have managed to drive a loyal Xbox gamer back onto Play Station gaming! Sometimes MS I wonder if you actually realise what is going on, when you alienate your customer base what do you think will eventually happen?

    Xbox One=Entertainment Center

    Play Station 4=Gaming Console

    Nuff said!

  39. Danny 5
    Devil

    Sony wins

    Well i believe that's game, set and match, isn't it?

    The PS4 is cheaper, has (slightly) better specs, has no online requirement and doesn't restrict 2ns hand games. Microsoft may have inadvertently ended the console war.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well done MS - I'll miss Forza tho :(

    The always on (with regards to checking whether to allow you to play your game or not) on daily basis and idiotic handling of lending/gifting/second hand market are likely to hurt sales. A lot.

    Even in the current mostly connected world there are many situations where a console would be used and an internet connection might not be available. You might have a holiday residence/boat/caravan/etc without internet and might still want to play games (or have kids play games) on occasion. Apparently not anymore then. Not even if you have the physical disc.

    Stopping (or limiting it to once only) lending/gifting games isn't going to increase sales. However someone borrowing a game to try it out may well result in them going out and buying their own copy.

    Then there is PS4. After all the shafting during PS3 launch and their later antics of changing functionality mid way, I don't think Sony can be trusted any more than Microsoft.

    Ah well, the money saved can go towards a new graphics card. it's not like I can't still plug it into the big TV in the lounge with HDMI and use Xbox360 controller with the dongle. And as a plus PC games tend to be bit cheaper than the console versions.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder how Microsoft will respond

    Based on the Windows 8 saga, one could suspect that they might stay the course (or be paralysed by indecision) unless/until early sales figures show a significant public preference for the PS4. At that point, if they remain true to form, their response will be a token gesture of some kind. In both cases they have a clear agenda that they wish to pursue, and are possibly reluctant to be sidetracked.

    HOWEVER: Windows 8 does not have significant competition from another company. Compare that to the Xbox One, which has an aggressive competitor with roughly equal market share. They may be forced to act sooner, and more decisively. Are they prepared to abandon their DRM agenda, or will they perhaps attempt to bribe people into accepting it? Interesting times.

    (Disclaimer: I use a PC gaming rig, and do not own a console.)

  42. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Coat

    There just might be a silver lining though

    Apart from just how badly Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot again, there just might be potential for something good to come out of this.

    I'm thinking of a law mandating that any company pushing monthly fees (aka licensing or renting) on games be legally forced to keep the servers running until the very last player has revoked his license, not until the game maker decides that it is not making enough money on it anymore.

    I mean hey, if they can stiff us with monthly fees and online registration, we should at least be the ones with the right to decide if or not it is time to retire the game.

    And yes, I'd like some fries with that.

  43. elmo
    Go

    It's a simple outcome really

    THe PS4 is an easy win.

    Am I bothered about phone home/always on? No

    Am I bothered about kinect? Yes, I don't want the eye of sauron on the top of my TV

    Am i bothered about 2nd hand games? Yep, there are only a few must buy titles, all the others I'll wait a while for.

    Someone in an earlier post hinted to backwards compatibility? I didn't think this was possible on the PS4 due to the move to x86?

    Only slightly negative is the move to online requiring Playstation+ But, if they use the fee to improve the service that's fine with me!

  44. William Hinshaw
    FAIL

    The Spy Box

    It should be just called the Spy Box. I'm not paying for a box designed specifically to put a camera and microphone into my living room that is connected to the Internet 24/7 (requiring it connect every 24 hours is basically 24/7 unless the kid takes it to a friends in the country).

    Microsoft was the first to get on board with the NSA spy program. Yeah so you can damn well bet that the NSA is going to be getting into every Spy Box it can. OH and what about hackers? I bet that in a month or less there will be plenty of videos and pictures posted on the Internet of all kinds of people caught on camera. Really M$ can't make anything secure and given that they have back doors put into their stuff under contract with the NSA probably you can bet that hackers will get in. You know they want this as it is REQUIRED that the Kineckt be hooked up for the thing to even run. Talk about fail fail fail.

    The more I find out about the Spy Box the more I just hate M$ for doing the crap it does.

    I hope that all of management that was part of making this the "in home spy machine" burn in hell.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    My milk just went off...

    ...because my IP fridge couldn't phone home, and switched off according to the manufacturer's policy.

    Do we think Microsoft would tolerate that?

  46. Nanners
    Coat

    It gets worse...

    "Microsoft just has no class". Jobs' infamous words.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57588725/e3-audience-offended-by-rape-joke-at-microsoft-xbox-one-event/

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bleeding money for fanboys

    I'm not so sure it's over yet. Sony obviously waited to see what cards MS played then likely did a massive internal U-turn. It's not just MS and Sony who fancy DRM. They are under massive pressure from developers to do it.

    Regarding 'always-on'. Sony sat back and watched the bad press MS received, bang and another decision was made for them. The current Xbox was hardly an offline games fest, I've lost count how many times I've seen "you must be signed in" (even when I already was)

    Sony have also been forced to undercut MS on price when they are already bleeding money left right and center.

    After Sony announced the PS3, they left off features and eventually cut the price. There's no reason why MS can't do this either. Remember "gamers are ready for real change" ? dual screen gaming via dual 1080P outputs never actually happened. At least Sony aren't as big mouthed as they were with the PS2 and PS3, both machines successful despite not being as good as the competitors let alone being nowhere near what was promised.

    At the end of the day, both consoles will be Call of Duty, Forza/GT and GTA boxes for the hardcore young gamer.

    I never thought I's see the day, but age has caught up with me and this generation of consoles has nothing to tempt me into not growing up.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    40 somethings

    I get the impression many posters here are in their 40s acting like they're in their 20s again.

    I've yet to see a post here that actually realizes that there are new generations of gamer who are born then step up to the powerful consoles all the time. Many won't care or have any loyalty whatsoever. The GTAs, Forzas will all be new experiences for them when they step up from their Wii's, 3Ds and Ipads.

    Selling games on the second hand market will only be something dads and grandads reminisce.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Re: 40 somethings

      You're right about them having no loyalty. Couple of weeks back I chatted with 3 20something, XBox360 owning gamers and it turned into the 2 younger gamers convincing the other to get back into PC gaming!

      Cost was a large part of what had been putting him off the PC based on the cost of building a gaming PC compared to XBox. Well, XBone and the inexorably march of progress on the PC wiped out that difference and the murky resale position just raised the expected cost of content on XBone.

      It's a double hit and you're mistaken to think cost is not a problem. ATM console gamers reduce their costs by resale, where PC gamers don't really need to due to frequently lower content pricing. What my chat established is none of them feel any loyalty to their current console, they'll go where the gaming is good but not at any price. And the PC is back in the game after many years of decline.

      (It also established that they all gamed on mobile as well, which probably is a bigger threat to traditional consoles and the insane XB policies)

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