back to article Microsoft caves to Google, pulls YouTube app from WinPhone Store

Microsoft will remove its revamped YouTube app for Windows Phone 8 from its store and revert to the earlier version until such time as it can meet all of Google's requirements for the app, advertising included. This latest chapter in the ongoing mano a mano between Google and Microsoft over Redmond's YouTube mobile app comes …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can hardly believe

    Google would offer API specs to Apple and refuse them to Microsoft, especially given that both are its sworn enemies and reputed Android foes.

    1. Andrew Jones 2

      Re: I can hardly believe

      ....sigh.... for people reading a tech blog the lack of knowledge surrounding this is quite frankly astounding.

      There are *NO* API's available to ANYONE to enable the advertising. If a platform has an "official" YouTube app available (that complies with the TOS) it is because Google built it - no-one else.

      If the API's existed, Microsoft would of used them - but they simply don't exist.

      There are a lot of people who believe that Google were in the wrong - but that is simply because they don't understand the law. Google have no legal requirement whatsoever to write an app for a competing platform - they may have a requirement to make the service available to all platforms (though that's more of a grey area) - Windows Phone users were always able to open a browser and visit YouTube so no law has been broken and it is not anti competitive.

      1. Cowboy Bob
        FAIL

        Re: I can hardly believe

        So there's no YouTube API eh?

        https://developers.google.com/youtube/

      2. MattEvansC3

        Re: I can hardly believe

        At the same time Microsoft weren't legally in the wrong over IE until the EU fined them for it.

        As you say it is a grey area but being "in the wrong" is for those grey areas. The Google employee who just published the MS exploit instead of going through the proper channels was "in the wrong" while the general consensus of Microsoft publishing their Youtube App without going through the proper channels wasn't "in the wrong". Its all subjective based off your own feelings.

        This grey area will become a much more prominent issue sooner rather than later as its the reverse of Microsoft's antitrust issue. Microsoft abused its market leadership by forcing others out of the market by including its products in market dominating products. Google,it could be argued, area abusing its dominance in the online video and maps market by excluding competitors in the sepearate smartphone market from accessing those products. Lets not kid ourselves, not having official native apps for facilities such as GoogleMaps, YouTube, iTunes and even Angrybirds can be deal breakers and limit sales.

        We may be heading to a future where software is treated like patents with FRAND like terms beingimposed on them when they hit market dominance.

      3. efarb

        Re: I can hardly believe

        There is an API... on Android. Its called the <a href="http://apiblog.youtube.com/2012/12/no-webview-required-with-native-youtube.html">YouTube Player API for Android</a> and is advertised as not requiring WebView.

        The issue is around having API equality. Though it reasonable to say Google does not have to do this. Whether this would be anti-competitive is an open debate. It depends a lot on whether you regard YouTube as a monopoly and whether user experience differences are considered important.

        1. wikkity

          Re: There is an API... on Android

          The API is not limited to android, true for android there is a native API, but the main API is a json one which can be used on any platform capable of opening a socket!

    2. Bob Vistakin
      Pint

      Re: I can hardly believe

      That's shocking.

      Microsoft have some kind of mobile phone out? Why doesn't anyone know about this?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: I can hardly believe

      I can hardly believe that you have believed Microsoft's side of the story.

      The fact is, Windows Phone is on life support, the only people refusing to pull the plug are Microsoft, supporting it by writing their own apps.

      The API nonsense is a smokescreen.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I can hardly believe

        Haha don't make me laugh. Yes that's why Windows phone is the fastest growing mobile platform atm. Get your facts right you idiot - read the IDC report.

        1. Juillen 1
          Headmaster

          Re: I can hardly believe

          It's easy to grow from an install base of nothing. The telling part will be where market equilibrium is (i.e. at which point windows phone gets no more traction against the other competitors).

          When the next iPhone comes out, it'll be "the fastest growing phone segment" on the market, and probably the same when the next release of Android comes out and Samsung et. al. release a swathe of new flagship products based on that.

          1. TheVogon Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: I can hardly believe

            Windows Phone already overtook Blackberry to be #3 global smartphone platform by sales. The install base is in the millions.

            1. Bob Vistakin

              Re: I can hardly believe

              @TheVogon "The install base is in the millions."

              As is Androids. Every day in fact.

        2. Bob Vistakin
          Holmes

          Re: I can hardly believe

          "Haha don't make me laugh."

          Well, I'm reminded of the reply Russell Brand got after him and Woss made their obscene phone call prank and he said "All I ever wanted to do was make people laugh".

          Reply: "Well Russell, any time you're ready to start".

          Same with Microsoft. When they do get round to launching something other than a comedy burning platform, we'll see if its any use.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          Re: I can hardly believe

          Actually the mobile phone I just made is the fastest growing platform, it's called AndroidX, I downloaded the Android sourcecode and did a find and replace and recompiled.

          Last year I sold none. This year I gave away one to my cat... Take that Microsoft and your stupid growth without numbers bullshit statistics that fool anonymous cowards.

        4. Tomato42 Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: I can hardly believe

          a growth from 2 people to 6 people is 300% growth

          doesn't change the fact that in reality nobody is using it

          1. This Side Up
            Headmaster

            Re: I can hardly believe

            "a growth from 2 people to 6 people is 300% growth"

            400% actually.

          2. This Side Up
            Headmaster

            Re: I can hardly believe

            "a growth from 2 people to 6 people is 300% growth"

            Er, 200%

          3. TheVogon Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: I can hardly believe

            Windows Phone has higher market share than the iphone in 7 countries now, with million of phones in use, so that old FUD doesnt wash anymore....

    4. David 164 Bronze badge

      Re: I can hardly believe

      Apple reportedly paid big dollars for access to the APIs. So far no rumour of Microsoft being willing to hand over money to get access to the APis.

      1. MattEvansC3

        Re: I can hardly believe

        Rumour is that Microsoft and YouTube had built an app but it was roadblocked by Google before it was signed off.

        1. wayne 8
          Big Brother

          Re: I can hardly believe

          Google owns YouTube. Think about that and how much they know about your video tastes.

      2. wikkity

        Re: I can hardly believe

        You only need to reach a commercial agreement with Google if you want to do something outside of the terms and conditions google provide the API free of charge under. I really doubt that google would disallow someone as high profile as microsoft if they were following the terms and conditions. If apple really need pay huge sums of cash for access presumably it was to get the content AD free? (I don't know, not used the ios version for a couple of years or so and it was ad free then)

    5. TheVogon Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: I can hardly believe

      What a misleading title. It is Google that caved in to Microsoft and agreed to let them have access to the APIs previously denied.

      The Borg had no choice but to cave as Microsoft had managed to release a functional app without API access - the only difference was that they were not making any money from it!

  2. Herby Silver badge

    Why can't we...

    Watch Google and Microsoft battle it out "gladiator style" where neither of them lives at the end, and the tiger eats everyone.

    Ah, but to dream.

    1. PaulR79

      Re: Why can't we...

      Then we'd be stuck with Yahoo as leading search engine. Do you really want that? DO YOU?!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Google should have done a Microsoft favorite; browser sniff and hinder or block access completely. Poor Microsoft, they get the treatment they have given others over the years. Imagine the fun Google could have had; nice messages that say please upgrade to a real phone. Or, you are trying to access a smartphone service. How about, error, please contact Microsoft to fix; error code 0x573985124607. Karma is a bitch.

  4. Pie
    Happy

    New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

    At the moment the update isn't forced on you so I am still running the better version. Not sure if they will force me to update ever. I just have to remember not to update all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

      You need to get a real phone ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You need to get a life troll.

      2. Pie
        Happy

        Re: New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

        Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get one tomorrow ;)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

      They have also been forced to remote uninstall, so it won't be long before you are using YouTube in a browser again.

      You should have bought a proper phone.

      There are loads for sale here:

      http://www.phones4u.co.uk/android/

      1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

        Re: New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

        "http://www.phones4u.co.uk/android/"

        Android? Meh, can take it or leave it (a taste thing, plus I find Google even less ethical than MS). But my downvote is linking to Phones4u. Dear oh dear....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Hahahaha.....hahahahah +920

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: New Youtube app is optional at the moment.

        "http://www.phones4u.co.uk/android/"

        But those are all the laggy, buggy and insecure ones, with loads of Malware....

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I reckon

    MS should stop YouTube working on Windows machines. Teach Google who is the daddy. Google will rapidly realise that the remaining you tube users, which would be school kids with cheap phones (i.e the android customer base), do not represent a valuable 'advertising target'. This means that the personal details of these users that Google try to sell will not be worth as much.

    GOOGLE EVIL EMPIRE FAIL!

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: I reckon

      omg we found the anti Eadon! Lets hope they never meet ;-)

      Interesting point though. MS spent years denying api access to competitors angnd generally being evil. I don't know to what degree google are trying to hamper ms but theres no doubt its due to the android patent fees ms is collecting. Otherwise g would have released an app and collected the additional ad revenue (albeit small).

      1. tony2heads
        Happy

        re: anti-eadon

        Surely they would both vanish into a huge burst of energy - what's the problem!

        1. Rampant Spaniel

          Re: re: anti-eadon

          I'm not sure we could cope with the release of that much delusional negativity!

      2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: I reckon

        > Otherwise g would have released an app and

        In order for Google to release a Windows Phone app it would have to submit it to MS for approval. How likely is that to happen ?

        1. dogged

          Re: I reckon

          Pretty likely. It's obvious that MS wants WP to have a good YouTube app.

    2. Arctic fox
      Trollface

      2AC 25th May 01.55 Re: "GOOGLE EVIL EMPIRE FAIL!" My congratulations on a truly.......

      .........superb Eadon imitation, it was so lifelike that I can only describe it as frightening.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I reckon

      MS blocking Google. That wouldn't work well for MS; people would just use a different browser. What is MS going to do, add a patch so that youtube wouldn't be allowed to be looked up via DNS? It would take no time at all for the backlash to hit MS.

      "remaining you tube users, which would be school kids with cheap phones"

      What is WP then? They are heavily subsidized and they are CHEAP. Anyone that knows anything knows not to get a WP. AT&T spent several hundred dollars to move each Lumia phone; Nokia was selling them cheap and then you had Microsoft advertising as well. At the end of the day, they spent more on advertising to get the phones to sell than they cost. They lost money on every phone sold. They had to pay developers to make apps and most have left because of the lack of app sales. WP is a failure, just like the apps for Windows 8. MS is so out of touch with the consumer it is not even funny.

      1. The_Regulator

        Yeah and that's why official apps are hitting the store on a weekly basis....

  6. The_Regulator

    Misleading headline. MS didn't cave, they changed their app in good faith then google decided they would finally provide the API access.

    Google fail!!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    yeah

    MS won this stoush fair and square

    1. Arctic fox
      Headmaster

      Re: "MS won this stoush fair and square" It does appear to be the case time at any rate.....

      ........even though certain members here will refuse to acknowledge that. The clue lies in the fact that MS and Google issued a joint statement. Mountain View realised that they had pushed the issue too far. That does not mean, of course, that they have "caved in to" Redmond, just that they realised that they would have to negotiate rather than take the mickey. Whatever comes out in the wash will be, hopefully, something that both sides can live with. That is after all the point with negotiations, hmm?

  8. Salts
    Thumb Down

    Hate YouTube

    Now that google owns YouTube over the last few years whenever I do a quick search of a how to or tutorial the top results are a bunch of idiots that can't write waving a camera around, normally at a prime example of how not to do it.

  9. g e
    Holmes

    Dear Microsoft,

    That's Karma for ya

  10. El Andy

    So Google are now going to provide access to the relevant APIs to allow a Windows Phone YouTube app that shows ads etc, exactly as Microsoft originally wanted. Remind me again which side has caved here?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ..how ironic

    ..just as microsoft block people from accessing all the quirky Exchange APIs so noone can write a nice alternative email or calendar program.

    1. Fuzz

      Re: ..how ironic

      You do know that, after being taken to court over it in Europe, Microsoft published all their specs? If you want to access exchange you just use EWS and that gets you access to everything. Anybody can write an alternative email or calendar program and they've got the choice of joining it up to exchange using EWS or activesync.

      Nobody bothers doing this because Outlook is a pretty decent email client when you're using it with exchange and if you're running a platform that doesn't support it then you can always use OWA which these days gives you a very good web client in all browsers.

      I guess Microsoft are annoyed because they were compelled to document their protocols and interfaces as a result of being the dominant player in the OS market. Google are the dominant player in the online video market but they are free to do as they like.

      Personally I don't understand what a youtube app is for. I have the Microsoft one on my phone but youtube videos played fine on my phone in the browser before I installed it.

      1. Zane
        WTF?

        Re: ..how ironic

        "Outlook is a pretty decent email client".

        Hm. Can you give me a reason for this. I need to use it at work, and I normally need to restart it several times a day. Calendar cannot handle repetitive appointments, when details are changed a lot of colleagues need to delete the old appointment and make a new one.

        My favorite Outlook feature is that it is unsure about the exchange connection. I try to access my emails, and it tells me that I should reconnect, as it is not connected to the exchange server. Nevertheless, it displays "connected to exchange server" in the status bar.

        I think I have used around ten different email clients in the last years, and none of them was that bad.

        /Zane

        1. Cari

          Re: ..how ironic

          We have problems with it needing restarts or crashing with some of the more heavy duty users where I work. From what I've been told it largely seems to be down to lack of space allocated to them and Outlook trying to archive vast amounts of mail to their storage over the network, rather than to the local machine.

          I'm a light user of Outlook, receive little mail, delete the crap fairly regularly and don't experience problems unless there's actually something wrong with our network.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: ..how ironic

          "I normally need to restart it several times a day. Calendar cannot handle repetitive appointments, when details are changed a lot of colleagues need to delete the old appointment and make a new one."

          All of those facilities work just fine here across Office 2003-2013, and Outlook is very stable. Suggest problem exists between chair and keyboard?

  12. The_Regulator

    Speaking of apps though El Reg when are we going to see an updated app for windows phone 8 or am I just crazy to think that's ever going to happen? :)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You can expect one when Microsoft sends their next developer bribery check out.

      1. The_Regulator

        Can't be that hard to implement even a few of the available options. (sigh)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Microcosm

      The Register is a very small website to have it's own app. Doubt they can afford it.

  13. andreas koch
    Paris Hilton

    'xcuse me

    but could someone remind me briefly why anyone needs an app (whether it's a cloaked link or a reformatting of the data) to use a website anyway?

  14. Paul Shirley

    the stunning power of Fairsearch searches

    Took seconds to find the Youtube v3 API, in nice plain text. A little longer to read the licence terms. Another few secs to find the apparently automatic 'click this button, agree to this licence, we give you a client ID' sign up process.

    I'm forced to conclude Microsoft used Bing for the search (or maybe their partner, Foundems woeful effort) and couldn't find it. Yet somehow Bing found enough info to hack together an app capable of violating the terms of service the Youtube API is only available under? MS just don't know when to stop fabricating stories...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ads

    There's no ads on the mobile website, so how much does Google care about its valuable customers' revenue? And while I could be wrong about this, I don't remember seeing ads on the apps for other mobile platforms.

    Google, while preaching cross-platform harmony, are desperate to keep Microsoft out of the game through the very same means that Microsoft used against Symbian. Remember how Microsoft couldn't say the word 'Symbian' in public? Google are the same with Windows Phone.

    I remember how Microsoft was avoided by the mobile makers because of the way it treated partners. That was Bill Gates. Steve Ballmer doesn't have the brains to be a scheming bastard like Bill, he just wants to hug a developer and thump a Googler. Google, on the other has has become the old Microsoft.

    basically, Google's mantra is "It's not finished until it doesn't work on a Microsoft platform" and while I have sympathy for those who say that Microsoft deserves it, a society that doesn't forgive but keeps alive every grudge and demands a pound of flesh for everything ever done is not a good one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ads

      > [...] how much does Google care about its valuable customers' revenue? And while I could be wrong about this, I don't remember seeing ads on the apps for other mobile platforms.

      You're probably right about not remembering but wrong about Google not caring about revenue. My daughter has recently discovered Michael Jackson for herself and is going through all sorts of songs on my Android phone's YouTube app and every 3rd or so video she's got to watch at least 5 seconds of an ad before getting the video to play.

  16. raving angry loony

    karma, baby.

    Microsoft did much worse to Wordperfect, providing only broken APIs while using secret internal (and working) APIs for their competing product. Frankly, to see Microsoft complaining after being treated much better than they've treated others is almost heart-warming.

  17. David Ward 1

    perhaps Microsoft should enable ad-blocking by default for all google products on windows, users would be happier, google would rapidly reposition, everyone wins.

    1. kirovs
      Stop

      Violation of Terms of Service

      At least in USA is a crime. Even MS lawyers realized that they would be in deep poopoo if they don't pull out the app. So no- they cannot block ads.

  18. Scott 67

    You know, I wonder why Google aren't having a fit with firefox users...I mean, Adblock/Noscript does this very job!

    1. kirovs
      Facepalm

      Wrong

      Firefox does not and cannot block the first 30 sec for example with ads from the video. All blocks are done at nothing vs all level.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can see the art of the sensationalist headline has not been lost.

    Comments seem categorised into two positions 1) That Google don't have to do anyone any favours, and 2) LOL you bought a Windows Phone?!!

    On point 1 - absolutely, Google don't /have/ to do anyone any favours, but it's always been more a question of whether they /should/. The 'Do no evil' mantra, coupled with the general philanthropic image Google like to paint of themselves points more toward a company that would want to just give everyone access to it's services regardless of where they're coming from or what they're using. That they have instead gone down the route of /not/ being helpful. and throwing out cease and desist letters speaks volumes, and rather leaves the 'do no evil' image in tatters.

    Point 2 - Grow up, people can use whatever they want, and shouldn't be penalised for doing so.

  20. This Side Up
    Pint

    No ads?

    "Google ... claimed the app violated YouTube's terms of service by allowing users to download videos to their devices and skirt around content restrictions – and by not displaying YouTube ads."

    Sounds like exactly what the customer wants!

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019