back to article Microsoft reveals Xbox One, the console that can read your heartbeat

Microsoft has shown off its next-generation gaming console, the Xbox One, with an upgraded Kinect and voice-recognition system, Skype integration, seamless switching between viewing modes, and a massive ramp-up in server support for the Live online community. Xbox One One console to rule them all "We've designed an all-in- …

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  1. The_Regulator

    Cable tv overlays, multitasking, snap, voice commands. I'm a ps3 user currently but potentially this could make me a convert especially considering I already use Windows 8 on my pc and windows phone 8.

    Hate the idea of having to pay to play online though and not a fan of the Xbox controller.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You shouldn't make a decision based on what you have listed, because most of it can be implemented by the competition or via software. The only thing that has any weight at all to me and also apparently to you, is the HDMI input. However, anyone paying attention to this particular detail already knows it can be implemented via PC very cheaply.

      The xbox controller does suck, but honestly, I only know one other person that doesn't like it, so apparently it is good enough for most people. I still prefer the very first PS1 controller with analogue sticks, or even the one before that without the sticks.

      I think what you should consider is that these consoles look like they are going to run x86 code. Considering that, these things are grumpy, locked down PC's. Maybe we should stop considering either console, and get off our asses and setup a proper gaming/HTPC rig with controllers. All the benefits, almost none of the lock down!

      BTW, if you have ps3 "navi" remotes (the ones without the mocap ball), do know you can sync those to a bluetooth adapter and use them on your PC (Windows or Linux, maybe Mac too). They make wonderful HTPC remotes for simple interfaces like the one for XBMC. Also, I've been reading that they also make great keyboard replacements for F.P.S. type of games.

    2. DougS Silver badge
      FAIL

      Cable TV overlays?

      Really? That would make you considering switching?? I think this is a total fail of a feature. It is just HDMI pass through, there is no cablecard slot in it, so it can't record anything, and probably can't even pause live TV.

      If you switch channels you'll still see the cable TV box's banner on top, with whatever banner Microsoft has partially on top of that. If you want to record something on your cable DVR (since the Xbox can't) you'll still need to use the cable box's guide to find the program to select for recording, the Xbox's overlay guide won't be able to do it. IR commands are pretty simple, and aside from the odd discrete command like on, off a handful of others, are always modal. This greatly what the Xbox can do with the cable box without having it activate all the cable box's menus to get there. Having those on the same screen partially overlapped with the Xbox's menus will be UGLY! But then Microsoft never did care about aesthetics.

      I'll bet the only cable "box" this Xbox gives a good experience to is Windows Media Center. I have a feeling that Microsoft read all the rumors of Apple's TV (most of which are probably way off the mark, just like they were for the iPhone before it came out) and read about the future plans for Google TV, and they figured they had to get out there with something to avoid looking as behind as they really are. If Apple ever does introduce a TV, and/or Google makes Google TV not totally suck, Microsoft will disown this functionality in the Xbox faster than they forgot about Kin. They'll release something else and anyone using this functionality in their Xbox will never see another update ever again.

      Don't believe me? Let's watch how quickly Windows RT is orphaned now that Intel has some Atom CPUs that comparable to ARM CPUs...

      1. Paul 135

        Re: Cable TV overlays?

        Indeed, I don't see that as particularly beneficial. WHAT WOULD absolutely destroy the XBOX One would be if Sony were to include full "Nasne" functionalty in the PS4 as standard. DVB-T and DVB-S tuners, full DVR functionality, and the ability to stream live or recorded content to any other DLNA device in your household!

        If Sony had any sense they could do this and own near enough the complete STB market in one swoop.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: Cable TV overlays?

          nothing here that will make me buy one either. I only bought a (refurb) first gen XBOX to install the first incarnation of XBMC, I dont think the "bundled" games ever got opened.

          to the poster a few blocks back, I didnt know you could sync PS NAVI remotes to a pc. I'll look into that (and if it works in linux for my more modern XBMC)

      2. Jonathan 29
        Unhappy

        Re: Cable TV overlays?

        Based on the specs it sounds like I could record an HD output from my Sky box - currently almost impossible without some expensive kit. Based on what I know of Microsoft, there is no way in the world they will let me do this right?

      3. Mark .

        Re: Cable TV overlays?

        "I'll bet the only cable "box" this Xbox gives a good experience to is Windows Media Center. I have a feeling that Microsoft read all the rumors of Apple's TV ... and read about the future plans for Google TV,"

        Or more likely, they looked at what is already possible with a range of TV streamer/Internet boxes, as standard with a range of "smart TVs" - and yes, already being done with consoles, including the X Box, and decided to build on that.

        "Let's watch how quickly Windows RT is orphaned now that Intel has some Atom CPUs that comparable to ARM CPUs..."

        I'd be glad if they do - it's a shame that the lower cost Window starter version got replaced with Windows RT (that lacks x86 and "desktop" compatibility), which is mainly why we saw the end of the low cost x86 "netbooks", and why the current Atom Windows 8 laptops are more expensive than both Windows 7 "netbooks", and the Windows RT devices.

        Out of interest, do you have any references for Atom vs ARM speeds? It's easy to find benchmarks comparing different ARM processors, but I've yet to find ARM vs x86... Also I wasn't aware that the newer Atoms were that much faster, but would gladly be proved wrong :)

        1. TheVogon Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Cable TV overlays?

          New 64 bit Arm CPUs are coming too, so Atom might not be the best low power option....

        2. JEDIDIAH
          Linux

          Re: Cable TV overlays?

          > Out of interest, do you have any references for Atom vs ARM speeds? It's easy to find benchmarks comparing different ARM processors, but I've yet to find ARM vs x86...

          Video manipulation and decoding make nice quick artificial benchmarks.

    3. g e
      FAIL

      Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

      Have you played an XBOX360 to compare it with your PS3?

      I have. My XBOX essentially is never used. The PS3 does everything better imho (though the 360 is very good for just games, though if available on PS3 that's the game version bought leaving only HALO and GOW to the XBOX).

      I see they still say 'LIVE subscription' so presumably the insanity that is playing twice for your SKY, Lovefilm and Netflix is still there.

      I'd say, pending the PS4 release with an official spec list and features (including that streaming backwards compatibility thing), that MS just handed a large chunk of the gaming market to SONY with this.

      It even looks like a 70's alarm clock radio without the clock or radio.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

        The PS3 suffers from various weaknesses over the Xbox 360.

        Firstly Sony's crap security, which took their online services down for ages. Secondly the PS3 is a nightmare to program, hence why games like GTA4 ran in a lower resolution on the PS3 and they couldn't be bothered to optimise the code for the PS3.

        Going forward the PS4 and XBox one will both be more easy to code for. I imagine Sony didn't show the PS4 case as it was going to be a huge doorstop too, X86 running full pelt creates a lot of heat compared to other CPUs.

        I'm not an owner of any games console, so I'm not a fan boy.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

          The PS3 suffers from various weaknesses over the Xbox 360.

          Firstly Sony's crap security, which took their online services down for ages.

          That was caused by a bunch of juvenile skids, not Sony.

        2. Daniel B.
          Boffin

          Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision FAIL

          "The PS3 suffers from various weaknesses over the Xbox 360.

          Firstly Sony's crap security, which took their online services down for ages. Secondly the PS3 is a nightmare to program, hence why games like GTA4 ran in a lower resolution on the PS3 and they couldn't be bothered to optimise the code for the PS3."

          Umm... GTA4 runs on 1080p on the PS3 w/o trouble. The actual FAIL there is to Rockstar, which seems to have b0rked something in their code which makes it prefer 720p over 1080p. If you change Video settings on the PS3 so that only 1080p and 480p are enabled, GTA4 will run on 1080p. There are two other games I think that have the same bug, can't remember which ones.

          I do think the x86 switch is a huge step backwards, we should be getting rid of x86 crap instead of propping up consoles with it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

        "though if available on PS3 that's the game version bought leaving only HALO and GOW to the XBOX"

        Why? - the Xbox is usually the best version (higher refresh rates, higher resolutions, etc.) of both consoles - due to it's more powerful GPU and hardware scaler. If you have both, usually the Xbox version is the one to get....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

          Myth. Microsoft fooled idiots. They put 1080 on the box without clarifying if that was native or upscaled. They then went off and talked about the Xbox scaler and gave it a cute name. Xbox fanbois and Microsoft shills the globe over then went passed the message....

          The reality: The NATIVE resolution of Xbox games is lower than the PS3. The resolution on the PS3 box represents the true resolution of the game, not some artificial upscaled fudge number.

          That said, the PS3 has a hardware scaler too, it's part hardware, part software, but the mighty grunt of the cell makes it pretty awesome. Watch a DVD and it's up-scaling performance is clear, wiping the floor with expensive DVD players....

          Almost all the PS3 FUD this gen is false and spread by the Microsoft marketing machine When your audience is 14yr old spotty teenagers, they are too naive to understand they are being played for fools.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Seriously? Gadget envy isn't a purchasing decision

            Actually most X360 and PS3 games are the same resolution (1280x720p), but SOME PS3 games (Wipeout HD for example) are 1920x1080p

            PS3 just has a very high speed bus between Cell and RSX and is able to pass graphics tasks to the Cell.

            PS3 is about 10% more powerful than X360.

            Upscaling DVD, no better than my TV via the RGB Scart. And yes I compared, so I use my DVD player for DVDs and PS3 for BluRays.

            I run the PS3 in non upscaling mode as this is recommended.

            I still find the quality good on it. The water in Uncharted 3, the snow in Uncharted 2, the multiplayer map detail in Killzone 3.

    4. qwarty

      A resizable HDMI input stream sounds like a neat feature, especially if there is a protocol so Tivo, Sky etc. can be updated to make for better integration. I like the idea that I can mix/match games, apps and TV services from my Nexus 7 or voice (iff the speech support is improved over 360).

      Wonder if we will be able to input a feed from 360, PS3 or PS4 consoles "Xbox play TS4" ?

      Why the negativity? Will be cool if implemented well.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Just boring and mindless hype.

        There is nothing terribly interesting about taking a TV signal and overlaying stuff on it. That's just picture-in-picture. You still have to control the other device(s) suitably well. You still have to deal with content from other sources.

        HDMI passthru is really just a big fat surrender. You're advertising that you've given up on being a central media hub. At that point, you might as well use better discrete devices because that's what you are doing anyways.

        Games are what game consoles do better than a $60 Roku or $100 BluRay player. If the games aren't compelling then you have no point as a game console. Being a more expensive and more complicated version of what everyone else is already doing is not compelling.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This will change your mind...

      Xbox One DRM:

      You buy the disk, you put it in the console, it copies the content to the HDD and then connects to the internet to obtain a license (using the unique serial number of the disk).

      Give the disk to someone else, or trade it in, and that person has to go through the same route. However as the unique disk serial number has been used, they have to pay full price for the disk...

      What's unclear is:

      How often it connects to check the game you have on the HDD is still licensed to your Xbox Live Account.

      If you remove the game does it free up the license for resale. (knowing Microsoft, unlikely). However even if it does, there is no way for a potential future buyer to know if the previous owner removed the content or not and if they have to pay or not.

      Microsoft are being cagy about all of this, giving mixed messages and intetionally clouding the issues. But the above is what they HAVE said...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This will change your mind...

        This was a feature they had to add to keep the games developers happy. They most likely threatened to pull the plug on future XBox games if MS didn't do it, saying they would only develop for the PS4.

        Now that games devs have twisted Microsoft's arm, they will now make the same threat to Sony, "implement this feature or we'll pull the plug on PS4 development, Microsoft has this feature".

        1. CmdrX3

          Re: This will change your mind...

          "However even if it does, there is no way for a potential future buyer to know if the previous owner removed the content or not and if they have to pay or not."

          From what I read, when you install the game to a new XBOX, the game is disabled on the previous one.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: This will change your mind...

            Nice, you have to keep your game disks locked away then, as anyone borrowing them can deactivate YOUR copy.. That's just as bad.

            DRM is going to be the death of the Xbox One. Microsoft can only ride the media hype for so long.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: This will change your mind...

          PS3 has a proven track record of platform security and virtually no piracy.

          Xbox the exact opposite. If anything Microsoft were forced down the DRM route because of the rampant platform piracy problem.

          Sony have no problems, they have 30 or so game studios. Microsoft have 3.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This will change your mind...

        "and then connects to the internet to obtain a license (using the unique serial number of the disk)." - Microsoft have specifically stated that inability to access the Internet won't prevent you playing games...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: This will change your mind...

          They have said you don't need a permanent internet connection.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        You are also a retard if you want to play Xbox 360 games on your Xbox One

        .... according to Microsoft...

        http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/22/don-mattrick-if-youre-backwards-compatible-youre-really-bac/

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This will change your mind... (CONFIRMED!!!)

        http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/xbox-one-gamers-unhappy-about-proposed-fee-for-preowned-games-8629720.html

        "Microsoft has said it will control the re-sale of games for the Xbox One, drawing angry reactions from the online community.

        Once customers have bought a game they will receive a unique code to activate their purchase. Once the code has been used the game will be linked to that individual’s Xbox Live account. If a friend borrows the game CD then they will have to buy a new activation code before they can play.

        The new code will cost as much as the original game and consoles will have to be connected to the internet to authorize their purchase."

      5. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: This will change your mind...

        "Give the disk to someone else, or trade it in, and that person has to go through the same route. However as the unique disk serial number has been used, they have to pay full price for the disk..."

        I don't know about America, but that is illegal under EU law - EULA or no EULA

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Great

      A games console that can compete with a 2009 computer....

  2. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

    Sir

    ......woot. I must be getting old - once upon a time it was all about the launch games :)

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Sir

      >once upon a time it was all about the launch games :)

      Yep. since before the Mario and Sonic days...

      It used to be so, but at the launch of the PS3 Sony didn't seem to bother- I can't recall any big PS franchises making much of a splash. Now that this new Xbox and the PS4 have similar hardware (so more likely to share AAA 3rd party games), it might be less about the 'title exclusives' and more about the details... clearly MS have done well to recognise that Online Multiplayer could be better, which is but the first step to fixing it. d

      Oh, and screw MS's Halo franchise - Bungie's 'Destiny' (available on both next gen platforms) is where its going to be at.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sir

        " Now that this new Xbox and the PS4 have similar hardware"

        ..and completely different operating systems and APIs. Want to write that game for Xbox and PS3? Best write all of your shader code up twice.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sir

          "Best write all of your shader code up twice." Oh come on, the similar hardware thing is really handy.

          Wild guess you are not a software developer.

    2. JetSetJim Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Sir

      I, for one, am excited about this gesture control of which they speak. I assume that the "spread" move requires one to take the Goatse stance?

  3. Piro

    What a terrible name

    Christ, now you'll have fun looking up anything to do with it.. while getting results for the original Xbox. Xbox Infinity was a much better name. "One" is way too overused these days it seems, it doesn't even have a good ring to it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a terrible name

      You haven't heard of a little movie called THE MATRIX? It's all the kids are talking about, last time MS checked anyway.

    2. Hoagiebot
      Facepalm

      Re: What a terrible name

      Sadly, this is the best that you can expect from Microsoft's branding people. I mean really, could you think of a group of people that do any less work? As best as I can figure, the conversations around their office must go something like this:

      "Oh gee, what should we call the follow-up to Windows 7?"

      "How about Windows 8?"

      "Brilliant! Lets go collect out unjustly over-sized paychecks!"

      "What should we call our new tablet PC?"

      "I don't know. I don't feel like doing any work today. Lets just steal the name from one of our other products and then call it that."

      "Well, our large Microsoft Surface tables that we sell to hotels are pretty cool. Let's name our tablet after that!"

      "Brilliant! Now we can go drink some lattes, smoke some expensive cigars, and play a round of golf to congratulate ourselves!"

      And when these people finally did find themselves faced with some real work after they had to rename the "Metro" user-interface at breakneck speed due to some international trademark concerns, the best that these geniuses could come up with was calling it "The Windows Store User-Interface." Yeah, that really rolls off of the tongue, doesn't it? So it doesn't shock me in the least that they would call the new XBox console the "Xbox One," despite the fact that it is the third-generation of Xbox console and that it would be potentially confusing. In fact, we should be happy that they didn't rename the new Xbox the "Microsoft Game Console 2014," because that is how they get out of doing so much work (or even having to suffer the nuisance thinking) by naming so many Microsoft products that way.

      1. Rukario
        FAIL

        Re: What a terrible name

        This is reminiscent of the Sony Ericsson P-series, going from 800 to 900, 910, 990. Then, the P1.

        Even Xbox Infinity would have been a better name (still leaving Continuum for one final stab at the console hardware business).

        MICROSOFT STUPID NAME FAIL. (They deserve this Eadonism, they really do.)

      2. Mark .

        Re: What a terrible name

        Okay, but which company does have a wonderful naming scheme? And what exactly is wrong about naming things by numbers (re Windows 8 after Windows 7) anyway? Seems perfectly sensible to me - later on you criticise them for not following the correct number, which is it?

        Let's see - Samsung: S, S2, S3, S4.

        Apple: counted their operating systems by number too since the first one, except now when they've oddly switched to 0.1 counting because they want to stick with number "X" forever.

        Intel: Pentium, Pentium 2, Pentium 3, ...

        As for names, I don't see how Surface is any worse than any other names in use. It's still a damn sight more original than taking the generic term for the product like "phone", "app", "store", "TV", and then at best adding an "i", or perhaps not even that.

        It is annoying when the numbers don't follow the correct order, but then the 5th iphone is actually the 6th, and HTC did the same thing with "HTC One".

        (Maybe they should have called it "X Box Aleph One", if people liked X Box Infinity so much...)

        "the best that these geniuses could come up with was calling it "The Windows Store User-Interface"

        Citation needed? What I read said it was "Modern UI" or "Windows 8 UI".

        1. Andy Fletcher

          Re: What a terrible name

          Apple? "Introducing the iPhone5 - the 6th iPhone". I'm amazed any of these big tech firms pay their marketing people anything at all.

        2. Hoagiebot

          Re: What a terrible name

          "the best that these geniuses could come up with was calling it "The Windows Store User-Interface"

          Citation needed? What I read said it was "Modern UI" or "Windows 8 UI".

          Microsoft calling the user-interface formally known as Metro "Modern UI" was extremely short-lived, and abandoned extremely quickly in favor of calling it the "Windows Store" UI because it runs "Windows Store" apps. As far as a citation to back my assertion up goes, The Register covered the name change for starters back in September. Check out this article here:

          One more try: Metro apps are now 'Windows Store' apps

          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/13/metro_apps_are_windows_store_apps/

          If that's not good enough of a resource for you check out Microsoft's "Windows Store Apps Dev Center Page" here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/jj679957 All throughout the page the apps are referred to as "Windows Store Apps."

          1. Mark .

            Re: What a terrible name

            Okay, though that seems a good name then - describes exactly what it is. I mean which is it, is it bad that they go for "marketing" names rather than accuracy (like X Box One), or they go for accurate names that don't sound great?

      3. Steven Batchelor
        FAIL

        Re: What a terrible name

        I agree we have always referred to our original xbox (which we have and still use) as xbox 1

        1. Mike 29

          Re: What a terrible name

          They should have called it the "New iBox"

    3. BrownishMonstr

      Re: What a terrible name

      I wonder if the XBOX is now more of a media hub than a games console, so perhaps ONE suggests the first media hub.

    4. Anonymous Coward 15

      Re: What a terrible name

      It's like when everything was called "2000" so it sounded cool and futurey.

    5. Rob

      Re: What a terrible name

      The name is clearly about market repositioning hence the rather lame ONE is about re-educating the consumers to think it's not just a games console as suggested by a previous poster. Microsoft's wider strategy of claiming the hub in the living room is off to an earlier start than the competition, Sony are the only ones to be close to competing if they release more features along these lines with their new console.

    6. MissingSecurity
      Devil

      Re: What a terrible name

      I am kinda of expecting a lawsuit, than a marking PR stunt saying that One was just a Development Name and that TXFKAO will be call modern xbox.

  4. Mike Brown

    So its a next gen sky+? Quite a departure from the games console i was expecting to be shown.

  5. Lord Zedd
    Thumb Down

    Thats all we need

    "You will have a dedicated game DVR capable of capturing those magic moments and saving them to the cloud,"

    More losers "pwning" people. FYI, nobody cares about you playing your game.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Thats all we need

      >More losers "pwning" people. FYI, nobody cares about you playing your game.

      So you missed the news story this week about Nintendo trying to reclaim users' 'walk through' videos as a revenue stream? Do try and pay attention!

    2. W.O.Frobozz

      Re: Thats all we need

      A-freakin-men. Hey remember when gaming was about, I dunno, playing games? Seems like every half-wit with a console thinks they should post endless streams of stupid videos of them "gaming" on YouTube. Or worse, trying to hamfistedly make a "gaming show" (just take a look at Justin.TV or ustream and see how many of these cretins exist).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        Re: Thats all we need

        What, you people don't like "gamer" videos :-). My clan video might change your mind, any of you l33t peeps ready for a 1v1 in solitaire! Bring it BITCHES !!!

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iYJzlE7rNM

        1. Bumpy Cat

          Re: Thats all we need

          First time I've ever said this, but this better be a Rickroll ...

          1. Rukario

            Re: Thats all we need

            Rickroll? Not a chance.

            They've given us up and let us down. They've run around and deserted us. They've made us cry, they've said goodbye. They've told lies and hurt us.

  6. Nate Amsden Silver badge

    I guess only Microsoft

    could add more servers to increase response times. Their systems must run really really fast to need higher response times.

  7. wowfood

    Bah

    I honestly couldn't give a flying rat about kinect or any of the kinect related features. I don't live in a large house, I don't have 6ft of space free to use kinect so why would I want it? (I don't even have 2ft of space to use kinect but shh)

    As for the consoles look, it looks like an htpc with an xbox logo on it, which is basically what it is.

    Hardware wise, still no in detail specs, but going from what devs have said elsewhere, not as powerful as PS4 although probably not by much.

    Really I'm not overly impressed, but what it all comes down to is first party where, again, I prefer the Playstation. Xbox has some nice first party titles too, but there are only so many scifi fps I can play.

    And in place of EADON

    This console brings nothing new to the table, and if anything tries to hide the fact that it lacks anything new by drowning out the terrible console with added microsoft bloat. MS FAIL

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Bah

      >This console brings nothing new to the table, and if anything tries to hide the fact that it lacks anything new by drowning out the terrible console with added microsoft bloat.

      One man's bloat is another man's features. Certainly the PS3 was always a more useful general purpose machine than the Xbox 360 (the Sony gave you Blu-Ray, fairly quiet operation, WiFi for media playback, iPlayer etc) so MS would be daft not to move in that direction.

      For me, the striking thing is how similar Sony and MS's next gen offerings are- so I suspect it will be the details of implementation and polish that clinch it. Either that, or people are beyond caring which platform they adopt, and the 3rd party studios will benefit.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bah

      There once was a wowfood who lived in a shoe....

      More than 6ft between sofa and screen in the living room hardly qualifies as a large house. Most bedrooms too, if you have some reason to play games in private or your mum won't let you into the living room.

      TEENAGE FANBOY FAIL.

      1. wowfood

        Re: Bah

        Actually mid 20s.

        And try living in an apartment in a holiday town. If you can aford anything bigger than a bedroom and a kitchen on a decent salary for this area then you're lucky. London rates at westcountry wages.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Bah

          Kinect 2 has wide angle sensor, by the look of it should be fine for most players at 4ft away. Wide angle also means there no tilt motor fun any more. Kinect for Windows 1 actually tracks as close to 18" for hand gestures in desktop type applications so software will be fairly mature. Don't think exact specs are available yet for Kinect 2 but looks good so far.

          In other words should work in all but the tiniest dwellings.

  8. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Don Jefe
      Happy

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      They already know all that stuff. If you're streaming video, playing with an online subscription service or game, buying packaged videos or games online and paying with plastic or PayPal you're a known quantity already. I'm not sure what MS would hope to gain by 'watching everything I do in my living room' wherever I'm watching TV, playing a game or surfing the web I don't do anything 'watchable'. Occasionally I may lean over to fart or pause everything to answer my phone but in reality nothing marketable happens in the average persons living room.

      Keep your tinfoil hat handy but I really don't see a cause for concern in this case.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Don Jefe
          Black Helicopters

          Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

          Like your CC company? They know more about you than any single organization out there. Are you scared of the too?

          1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            1. Dave 126 Silver badge

              Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              >However Credit cards don't (yet) come weaponised with surveillance sensors such as cameras, microphones et cetera

              Okay, Dougal, how do you 'weaponise' something with a sensor exactly?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

            "Like your CC company? They know more about you than any single organization out there."

            That's another reason I don't have a CC anymore and haven't for the last 12 years. Anything they have on me, other than my credit history at the time, is all out of date!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

          It's not on wheels driving around snooping your email like Google though.

          Who can you trust? Google? nope, Apple? nope, Microsoft? nope.

          Linux is one way to get out of this, but where's the mass market Linux games console of a similar power to the XBox and Playstation? there isn't one. There are lower power cheaper units, but they don't play all the big titles.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Linux

            Does BSD count? If so there are BSD consoles around.

            One variant is Cell OS

          2. Charles 9 Silver badge

            Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

            Isn't Valve working on a Linux-powered Steam box?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              I would really like the ability to have any thread created by Eadon automatically collapsed and hidden with no indication it ever existed. People are far too easily trolled.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      >Unlike Google, MS have given user's data to the FBI/government without a warrant

      From the FBI's persepctive, people who are sat at home playing video games with their mates are not of interest. People out on the street bombing, murdering and a smuggling... that's a different matter.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      2. Esskay

        Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

        "From the FBI's persepctive, people who are sat at home playing video games with their mates are not of interest."

        Unless the game or movie they're watching is pirated.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

          >You give a fascinating variant on the nothing to hide, nothing to fear argument.

          When I do get together with my friends to discuss the overthrow of Western civilisation, I prefer to meet in either a tent in the Sahara, or in a hollowed-out volcano - not in Ed's front room halfway through a Halo session.

          1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            1. Dave 126 Silver badge

              Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              I would worry that someone has installed video cameras and microphones in the beer garden shrubbery to catch people discussing all manner of naughtiness - legal, finacial, sexual- but I don't.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              Maybe like Richard Stallman you have something to hide Eadon?

              1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            3. Jamie Jones Silver badge
              FAIL

              @eadon: Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              "@Dave 126 "I also unplug the ethernet cable from the back of my xbox when I'm not playing it."

              Huh? When did "Dave 126" write that?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Eadon

                Have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

                You annoyed so many people to such a massive degree with your bigoted caps rants, that now no-one will take any notice of what you have to say - even if it truly has some merit.

                How do you feel about that?

                Maybe you should consider creating a new Reg persona for actual serious comments that people might find insightful or useful.

                As long as you're not derailing every bloody story with off-topicness I would actually be sad to see the Eadon character disappear altogether, though...

                What am I saying? I... [cuts off abruptly]

                [muffled sounds of other commentards punching, kicking, trampling, etc]

      3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

        You are aware the the 9/11 bombers did lots of practice on /MS flight simulator aren't you?

        Maybe seeing if a "terrorist" is sitting at home playing games involving blowing things up in "real" locations is actually the sort of thing the FBI actually want to know.

        1. wowfood

          Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

          I can imagine army recruitment ads going out to all the kids playing COD. Y'know since playing videogames makes you so good at handling guns IRL.

          I wouldn't have the kinect (and it's sensors) plugged in though if I ever buy the console (if that's an option... that better be an option) I simply do not have the space to use a kinect controller, nor do I have the will to use one after my last few attempts, even with 10x the accuracy, 10x nothing is nothing. Also I imagine this heart-beat sensor is about as accurate as the mobile phone ones where you cover the lense with your thumb.

          Honestly this all comes down to first party titles for me, and sony have more first party titles I prefer.

          1. Sorry, "Sorry that handle is already taken" is already taken.
            Facepalm

            Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

            Will someone please explain to Eadon that Enemy Of The State wasn't a documentary?

            1. Albert Lederer

              Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

              Not a docmentary, but maybe a howto...

              1. Wize

                Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

                Just wait till someone starts jailbreaking them.There will be some perv sticking his program on the net which looks like a patch to make a game run for free, but instead gives him access to the camera.

    3. GitMeMyShootinIrons
      FAIL

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      Everyone's favourite Google fanboy comes out to play. Dear oh dear.

      Now I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next man, but this is stretching it. Let's look with slightly more impartial eyes.

      Well, Eadon is forever calling MS idiots, releasing stuff no-one wants, and now he insists that they're clever enough to pull a James Bond style conspiracy piece together. Really, he can't have it both ways. For a successful conspiracy, you need a small group of folk with a smattering of intelligence. Microsoft are not exactly small and the bigger the bureaucracy, the more unlikely a conspiracy is to succeed. Assuming that you're right that MS are releasing stuff that's rubbish/no-one wants, then how can they be smart enough to even think of such a clever ploy?

      Google on the other hand fit the bill far better:

      - Gather information and sell to the highest bidder = Check

      - Proclaim 'do no evil' while sniffing data from a vast array of sources and using it for their own gain = Check

      - Release devices (or at least an OS for the purpose - even smarter - let others build the devices!) that are designed to be always on and disseminate information = check

      - Do all this while having a massively successful PR/Marketing approach that makes them look happy-clappy and fashionable (only Apple are better at this) = check

      Google are a smart company that can get away with an awful lot. A better conspiracy candidate than tired old Balmer's boys.

      And as for Trojan horse in your home - well, Google Glass goes far better than that. A spy device that goes everywhere and sees everything. Eadon, you're looking THE WRONG WAY!

      But do I believe Google are really like that? No, not in a 'do evil' kind of way, and I don't believe Microsoft are either. Only a paranoid mind with a fanatical dislike of anything (whether good or bad) with a particular label on it would have such delusions.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      2. wowfood

        @GitMeMyShootinIrons

        How about this then, it isn't actually Microsoft who have devised this spy gear but a small crack team of CIA agents who have infiltrated the Microsoft infostructure with the intention of implementing spy gear (kinect) and back doors (microsoft firewall) into all microsoft products so that they can have eyes and ears everywhere.

        No longer is is microsoft, but a small cell inside of them, Conspiracy theory saved.

    4. bailey86

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      Why does Eadon get down-voted for this.

      I think it's actually a very good point. I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist - I go for cock-up before conspiracy. But say the feds want to investigate someone then being able to access a camera and microphone in their front room is going to be very tempting. And let's face it - from Geoge W's time when he stopped the breakup of MS they owe the US govt big time.

      I'm not too bothered in the UK where plod tends to be fairly reasonable - but in the US - where they can lock people up for twenty five years for stealing a pair of socks, have Guantanamo, frame people and lock them in solitary for forty years - it might be worth bearing in mind.

      1. bailey86

        Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

        Why are they reading emails? As the article explains, it's not to check for spam.

        http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

        > I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist - I go for cock-up before conspiracy. But say the feds want to investigate someone then being able to access a camera and microphone in their front room is going to be very tempting.

        This isn't even a particularly new idea. This sort of thing was a staple of a show from the 80s.

        We are now living 10 minutes into the future.

        Someone WILL hack into your urinal cam.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      Aw bless, a few more months and Eadon will be rocking in his chair, occasionaly getting up to lick a window. His paranoia and MS hatred is gone form the quirky and a little humorous to the stage where I think may be asking MS (as they apparently know more about him than Google) for his home address, so we can send the nice men in white coats around; that way he can have a lovely room with padded walls to prevent MS and the FBI hurting him any more.

    6. TheVogon Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus

      "Do you want this Trojan Horse equipment in your house, spying on you and yours?"

      I guess you would prefer the Ubuntu version that tells you they are selling your data?

      Microsoft has a pretty comprehensive privacy policy - and unlike Sony they don't run their systems on Linux, your your data is less likely to be hacked and pasted across the Internet...

  9. TrevorH

    It's £399

    Within 3 hours of the announcement I had SPAM in my inbox trying to sell me one for £399.

    1. Adam 1 Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: It's £399

      Why are kids these days such cynics?

      Just the other day I received a lovely email from a Nigerian banker. I can't share too much right now, but lets just say I think I can find the £399 launch price.

      1. Esskay
        Joke

        Re: It's £399

        Banker? Pah! I'm helping out the *Prince* of Nigeria! Already paid the admin fee, just waiting for those millions to come through...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's £399

      Bankers? Princes? I might help this little old lady from East Africa who's husband died with exactly $1,500,000 in the bank and she can't release it unless I lend her $2000, she's promised a 10% cut after it's released!

      1. Brenda McViking
        Headmaster

        Re: It's £399

        You're all screwed. I was contacted directly by the FBI to see if my account had been hijacked by these people promising people money turning out to be Nigerian scammers. They promised that if I donate $300 to the UN World Health Organisation's refugee orphans compensation scheme fund, they'll send Interpol out to recover the $6,500,000 money I lost. All I need to do is give them the account details - easy!

        Brilliant thing is, that I never got scammed in the first place - they must have accidently thought I was one of you lot, so I donated the money this morning via Western Union and will be laughing all the way to the bank with your money when it comes through from the FBI Director General of MI5!

  10. __________
    Thumb Down

    No second-hand games

    It's reported that the XBox One will associate each game purchase with one user, so no selling old games or even lending them. That might harm its market a bit

    1. Greg J Preece

      Re: No second-hand games

      Details are still hazy on this. Microsoft say it doesn't need an always-on connection, but it does need a connection, which I presume is for activating products against your account. Also, all games apparently have to be installed when you buy them, which could really piss people off.

      1. An0n C0w4rd

        Re: No second-hand games

        I prefer to install games on my old Xbox 360. Means the noisy DVD drive spins less and the games load faster. Don't see why installing games on the Xbox One would be any different.

        Difficult to see that they could make each DVD/BluRay different, so there would have to be a unique code in each box to put in. If so, that's a PITA. Maybe they use the Kinect and put a QR code in?

        In any event, the game companies trying to either ban or get a cut of the 2nd hand games market is going to happen somehow. It's surprised me it's taken this long to be honest.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No second-hand games

          There are two problems with this. One is that the Xbox One is going to ship with an utterly inadequate 500GB HDD. Once you lose the chunks of that for system software, caching and other assorted bits and bobs we're more realistically down into the 400GB range. Xbox One games will be shipping on Blu-rays. A dual layer Blu-ray disk stores 50GB, and you can bet your life on developers using the whole lot of that. That means in the best case you are talking 10 games installed on your console at any one time. I don't know about you but I've got far, far more than that sat next to my consoles.

          The other problem is everyone reporting seemed adamant that the games would be installed per-account (making each disk unique is a doddle, btw). This has implications ranging from the irritating (can't play it on friends' xboxes, can't play it on other accounts on your own xbox(?), can't resell etc.) to the outright illegal (in the EU, in particular, the first sale doctrine has been very strongly applied). MS do seem to be backtracking heavily on this however.

          1. jason 7

            Re: No second-hand games

            Erm I think I still have 45GB free on my five year old 60GB drive.

            Why do I need much when I have a NAS for my media that I can stream to the Xbox?

            I not usually in a hurry to play games so waiting a bit for them to load isn't an issue.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No second-hand games

          AC from above here. It seems that MS have not just "backtracked hard" on the reports that a fee would be payable for 2nd use of games, they have outright denied it.

          https://twitter.com/XboxSupport3/status/336924786410278912

          Still, makes you wonder where the story came from. Wouldn't be the first time that MS have made a pseudo-announcement via a leak to test the response and then denied they ever dreamed of doing it.

        3. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: No second-hand games

          Since the XBox One will use BluRays, odds are the serialization will occur at the ROM Mark. This still allows for rapid pressing of the BD discs. You can't burn a ROM Mark (you can't be certified as a BD-R device unless you explicitly DON'T have the capability), and only the pressing plants have the ROM Mark machines (which are carefully monitored by the consortium). Quite simply, no piracy unless the console is hacked (and I would think Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have been doing their homework regarding hardening against hacks).

          1. M Gale

            Re: No second-hand games

            "(and I would think Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have been doing their homework regarding hardening against hacks)."

            They've been doing so for decades. As you can see, they've completely eradicated unauthorised copying of software.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: No second-hand games

              Not sure anyone's mentioned this yet but I'd be surprised if MS could/would prevent a disc being used on different consoles. If they did, presumably they don't want me buying a console for home and one for the boat? Unless we assume that they'd try to claim that it would be reasonable to expect me to buy 2 copies for that purpose?

              Also - given the -ahem- questionable reliability of the XBOX360 in the early days, are they going to effectively brick my games if my console fails?

              Tying discs to an Xbox account is another matter but, as has been said, there are other laws that make that illegal in the EU.

              1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                Re: No second-hand games

                "Tying discs to an Xbox account is another matter but, as has been said, there are other laws that make that illegal in the EU."

                What if Microsoft classes all software transactions as LEASES instead, exempting them from exhaustion and making the EULAs binding lease agreements?

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: No second-hand games

                  "What if Microsoft classes all software transactions as LEASES..."

                  This was exactly what the EU ruling concerned. The defining characteristic of a lease is a continuing payment schedule and a reasonable pre-agreed contract guiding the terms of the lease.

                  When there's a one-off payment for perpetual effective ownership, as far as the EU is concerned that is an outright *purchase*, regardless of what the EULA says - the EULA's terms would at that point be deemed unreasonable at the least (or more likely outright illegal) and therefore unenforceable.

                  That's even assuming the EULA is enforceable in the first place. Consumer protection laws ensure that contracts are only enforceable if they're signed *prior* to you purchasing the product, giving you time to read, understand and consider (requirements for the contract to be valid in any case). You only see an EULA when you've bought the game and pop it in the disc tray, what is called a "shrink-wrap contract", and they're widely considered unenforceable in Europe.

                  Also, I'm not massively familiar with US law on the subject, but Vernor vs. Autodesk seems to indicate that the US courts take a very similar stance, so I'm fairly confident that the idea that US companies can shovel any old shit onto their consumers in their EULAs is a misconception too.

                  1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                    Re: No second-hand games

                    "Also, I'm not massively familiar with US law on the subject, but Vernor vs. Autodesk seems to indicate that the US courts take a very similar stance, so I'm fairly confident that the idea that US companies can shovel any old shit onto their consumers in their EULAs is a misconception too."

                    Vervor v. Autodesk was thrown out on a technicality. Turns out Vernor never properly got the copies from their original location. Autodesk proved (with a LEASE contract, no less) that the copies were part of a service agreement—they were meant to be destroyed or returned to Autodesk as they were sending the original company the next version of the software.

                    As for the EULA, it wouldn't be shrink-wrapped because it would occur the moment you turn the console on, meaning it's prior to activating your Live account and starting your first game. Maybe not a lease but a SUBSCRIPTION or a SERVICE AGREEMENT (which IS enforceable--that's what threw out Vernor v. Autodesk) Something or other that requires a continual good faith and terms and conditions to remain in the service. IOW, the disc is no longer the product itself: just a one-time-use key (and Sony is working on a similar idea only without the online requirement—using RFID tags instead). And like I said before, no one's managed to force Valve to make their games resellable, so there must be some kind of legal standing that keeps Steam running in Europe, and Microsoft's new model is much like Valve's.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: No second-hand games

                      "And like I said before, no one's managed to force Valve to make their games resellable..."

                      http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/01/valve-sued-by-german-consumer-group-because-steam-users-cant-resell-games/

                      Not yet, anyway.

                2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

                  Re: No second-hand games

                  ""Tying discs to an Xbox account is another matter but, as has been said, there are other laws that make that illegal in the EU."

                  What if Microsoft classes all software transactions as LEASES instead, exempting them from exhaustion and making the EULAs binding lease agreements?"

                  Simple. Laws have priority over EULAs. It's still illegal to shoot your neighbour, even if a EULA specifies it

                  1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                    Re: No second-hand games

                    "Simple. Laws have priority over EULAs. It's still illegal to shoot your neighbour, even if a EULA specifies it"

                    Is it STILL illegal if you shoot your neighbor with a water pistol? Or a confetti shooter? Or a blank round? This is the kind of grey area we're walking into. Can Valve and Microsoft say their software is a service and the game discs merely keys (since the games are also downloadable and subscription-based a-la OnLive)? IOW, is it a sale or it is a service?

                    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
                      Happy

                      Re: No second-hand games

                      Ahhh, if a EULA specified shooting the neighbour with a water-pistol, that should be allowed. Life would be more fun then!

                      As for your other point, here was a case in the EU that established that Basically it doesn't matter whether the company calls it a license/service or whatever:

                      http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57465746-92/eu-court-sale-of-used-software-licenses-is-just-fine/

                      I'd expect/hope that your 'first sale doctrine' laws would be treated the same way.. The EU case does certainly help your cause, but those damn media companies have powerful lobbyists...

            2. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: No second-hand games

              Actually, Microsoft and Sony seem to have put serious dents in piracy (at least where their chief markets are concerned). Tamper resistant packaging, constant updating, and so on have stymied all but the most determined efforts to pirate (compare the level of piracy on the 360 and PS3 to that of the original Wii). Put it this way; if you have to open the box to hack it, you've already accomplished a fair bit. Not much you can do about the determined hackers or the outer markets where there's little control, but if you can keep casual hacking to a minimum, that's progress.

              I'm willing to bet both the XBox One and the PS4 will carry something similar to a Trusted Platform Module (available for x86 platforms), and the CPU will probably have a hardware encryption unit. That'll make things more difficult.

      2. M Gale

        Re: No second-hand games

        " Also, all games apparently have to be installed when you buy them, which could really piss people off."

        Why? Virtually every console game released now has a "this game requires 4 fuckloads of hard drive storage" message on the back or similiar, and then you get the inevitable stream of patches that take the beta-level shit you've bought and plug some showstopping bugs.

        Not being able to sell the game on the other hand? Well eh, we've had a few years of Steam and other such bullshit getting people used to the idea of that. People in general will bend over, take it up the arse, and deride the people that refuse to as being freetards or luddites.

        Welcome to the Computer Games industry.

        1. Greg J Preece

          Re: No second-hand games

          Why? Virtually every console game released now has a "this game requires 4 fuckloads of hard drive storage" message on the back or similiar, and then you get the inevitable stream of patches that take the beta-level shit you've bought and plug some showstopping bugs.

          Errr, which console are you playing on? In my entire time with a PS3 I think I've installed what, 2 games?

          1. M Gale

            Re: No second-hand games

            You must have only played about two games as well. Seriously, go look at the game requirements on the boxes.

            Vast majority of console games out now use that hard drive, and for more than just saving your progress.

            Trying to remember what game it is that wants you to download the entire set of textures all over again as a patch when you shove it in the drive.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No second-hand games

      "That might harm its market a bit"

      Ha ha ! Very funny! Sorry but there's enough suckers who have no problem with buying a game and being lumbered with it ( "Ooh look at the shiny HD graphics and the HD whoosh bangs!" ) , to keep MS afloat for years!

    3. billynomates

      Re: No second-hand games

      The 14yo and tend to swap games backwards and forwards. If this works to block that then we'll be sharing a gamertag and only having one box instead of the five we currently have dotted around the house or moving to Sony. The decision willreally be driven by what consoles his mates have got but IF the worst case happens I'll be steering him away from XBox.

      Well, it's down to Sony now. Decision time will come when both Sony and Microsotf clarify matters. I can't help feeling that this reveal has left more question unanswered than answered and, to be honest, something that looks like an Amstrad VCR from the early 90's doesn't float my boat.

      Dissapointed.

  11. Jeff 11

    It's not much of a surprise to me but this could be a fairly important moment in gaming, for it means all the heavyweight consoles now have something in common - x86 CPUs. The new Xbox also runs DirectX, which should make it technically trivial to have dual releases on the Xbox and Windows PCs. The PS4 will also handle x86 code, although it'll no doubt have lots of proprietary APIs and GPU intricacies to handle, but they'll probably be much less of a complexity gap for doing multi-platform ports.

    1. M Gale

      Proprietary APIs and GPU intricacies to handle,

      PS3 uses MS Visual Studio as its IDE, and OpenGL ES and CG for talking to the GPU. Not sure about much else since I didn't sign the NDAs for that.

      I would guess that the forthcoming Xbox will also be similarly stuffed full of interesting stuff that you'll only get to know about if you jump through the right hoops and promise not to tell anybody.

    2. JDX Gold badge

      XBox has used DirectX since the original XBox...

      What ahppens is every game dev company writes their own abstraction libraries (game engine) around the underlying APIs so they don't have to write separate code for each platform for each game.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: XBox has used DirectX since the original XBox..

        Hence the name

        Direct X Box

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There's a lot more detail in the BBC article than here at the Reg which is surprising...

    The BBC included details about changes to the hardware which is important to know because :-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22613948

    "...the move means neither machine will be backwards compatible with the former generation's catalogue of games."... "...studios have said it will be easier to make games on next-gen platforms because they're going to be closer to the development environments that are common on the PC side."

    I wonder how "Watch Dogs" and the new GTA will look....? I hope MS allows for simpler copying of profiles and saved games between profiles. Its a pain at the moment and you have to use third party tools to fix it.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: There's a lot more detail in the BBC article than here at the Reg which is surprising...

        Eadon you cretin- the OP AC was expressing surprise that the BBC coverage had highlighted a (possibly significant) point when the Register had missed it. This point was not made on priviledged information as you suggest, but on already common knowledge.

        Try putting your energy into different avenues for a month... if you see no improvement after that time, you should seek help.

    2. Amorous Cowherder
      Happy

      Re: There's a lot more detail in the BBC article than here at the Reg which is surprising...

      Love Fallout and Skyrim too much to part with my 360. Still at least getting spares or replacement 360's should be a darn sight easier, I bet the prices have dropped through the floor on Fleabay already!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There's a lot more detail in the BBC article than here at the Reg which is surprising...

      See Anandtech http://anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4/5 for info on XBO and PS4 that doesn't sound like its written by a tabloid/bbc journalist.

  13. Greg J Preece

    I watched the livestream, and the presentation was awful. A bunch of suits spouting corporate bullshit and desperately trying to engage with "da yoof" by constantly name-dropping things they'd heard of.

    "You can see here I've been listening to some Deadmau5."

    "I like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones."

    Etc, etc. Patronising arses.

    First they talked about TV, and all the ways to watch TV, etc, etc. They seemed to have some kind of obsession with sports and Then they rabbited on about the hardware. Finally, after half an hour they decided to talk games, and what was the first thing they did? They announced a partnership with EA! Of all the people you bring to a product launch, you bring the most hated company in America??

    EA announced more EA sports titles, and we were all supposed to care. Microsoft talked Forza, Halo, Call of Duty, and I nearly fell asleep. CoD looked excellent on a technical level, but then CoD is always excellent in some respect. The storyline looked like bollocks though.

    Here's a thing to ask yourself: Was there a single second of actual gameplay footage anywhere in that 90 minute presentation? Anywhere? Call of Duty came bloody close, and I thought for a second I actually saw some, then I realised there was no HUD. Every single thing relating to games was pre-rendered, and I'm certain that the stuff on the big screen was simulated, even the Skype call (seriously, you didn't notice the perfect timing and scripted lines?). We haven't seen this thing in action, at all.

    It was a bloody disgrace. The machine looks OK as a set top box, but as a console I saw no reason to buy it when the PS4 presentation did a far better job of positioning the machine as a games machine, which it is. The PS4 presentation basically went through a list of every single one of the PS3's flaws and said how they would be fixed, which is how you bloody do it! The Microsoft guys were almost embarrassed to admit it was a games machine.

    1. goldcd

      Oh don't be hard on them

      God knows I work for a company positively saturated with retarded-suits forever scrambling over the exhausted corpses of the able, to claim the glory.

      Doesn't mean there isn't some lovely stuff - hate the suit, love the tech.

      1. Don Jefe
        Happy

        Re: Oh don't be hard on them

        Hate the person in the suit, not the suit. A suit is just an inanimate uniform for work. The person in the suit is a thinking, calculating, sentient being who has determined his asinine actions constitute a positive value proposition. Alternatively he could be a really nice guy with who works very hard and has respect for his fellow man. Hard to tell by appearance alone.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Oh don't be hard on them

          >A suit is just an inanimate uniform for work

          Unless you've read too much Iain M Banks...

    2. Glyn Thomas

      A quick run-down

      Top 2-minute summary of the launch event I've seen so far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

      I suppose in the quest to be the one must-have device sitting under the telly, no games machine is going to market itself as 'just' a games machine. But for an increasing demographic with with 40-inch-plus TVs (which you can pick up at the supermarket for pennies these days), there's actually rather a lot of space under the telly.

      The "me too!" drive to make sure any device *could* be used as the primary device in a living room simply means unnecessary duplication. So you get a BBC iPlayer app on the TV itself (or the digibox if you have an ageing telly) and the blu-ray player and the Sky box and xbox and wii and PS. You get a Facebox widget on most of them too, and they all want an internet connection so you can get network radio and video-on-demand and skype. Your xbox now has an hdmi input so you can mash the source together with overlays or watch a footy match while gaming in half the screen (although many TVs support picture-in-picture anyway). You can use DLNA to stream music from somewhere else in your house to one of your consoles, or the bluray player, or the TV itself...

      Having an AV receiver for my surround sound with 5+ HDMI inputs makes it really easy to switch sources for the TV - I'd not be averse to having dedicated devices that were really good at doing just one thing exceptionally well. But I suppose we all got used to having our phones do a billion things, and managing 6 different remotes (or teaching the Significant Other to use a multi-function remote) is more trouble than it's worth...

    3. jason 7
      Meh

      The day of the Games console is over.

      Basically what the 'suits' were getting at is that we are now in the age of the 'Entertainment Console'.

    4. The_Regulator

      I kinda disagree on the playstation presentation. They did not show the hardware except the controller, they talked about what it would have but somewhat hazy on the details still.

      Feels like MSFT had a few more innovative ideas (how well they execute them remains to be seen) but having used ps3 from the start and having tried the 360 at friends houses many times I have always preferred game play on ps3.

      I guess in reality we need to wait a few more months for full specs and capabilities to be divulged.

  14. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

      >MS abandons backwards compatibility once again. Must feel great to be an MS dev / partner / customer!

      You really have gone full retard today...

      Why would a dev care if people didn't keep playing DeathKill IV on their old machine and bought DeathKill V for their new console instead? They wouldn't care - they would welcome it.

      The PS3 caught up XBOX 360's sales, despite most PS3 units not playing PS2 games... Guess what? Those people with PS2 games tended to own a PS2 console. Shocking, I know, but that's just that way it is.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. jaywin
          Facepalm

          Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

          Try stepping back from the mic, it's probably feedback.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          As OP I'd like to know... Why does Eadon keep picking fights?

          If he gets a record amount of down-votes is he hoping the number will reset back through zero?

          Or is there a competition for down-votes, a wooden-spoon trophy, that awards you a free gift at the end of the year. If so I recommend the Reg give him Microsoft Office or something like that!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: As OP I'd like to know... Why does Eadon keep picking fights?

            "is there a competition for down-votes, a wooden-spoon trophy"

            Why would it be a wooden spoon trophy? Are you suggesting that a large number of down votes is bad? So every one in history who would be "downvoted" by our "nonced youth", is bad?

            W O W Stupidity lives!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: As OP I'd like to know... Why does Eadon keep picking fights?

            I'm hoping The Register will implement an Eadon filter. That way when venturing down to the forums you'll have the option to read some intelligent discourse on the content of the article, not have to scroll through pages of self indulgent Microsoft bashing that have nothing to do with what was written, or anything to do with rational thought at all.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Black Helicopters

            Re: As OP I'd like to know... Why does Eadon keep picking fights?

            The more I read from Eadon the more I've become convinced his posts are just one of the Reg hacks winding us up.

            Despite becoming more cynical as I get older, I find it hard to believe that a real person would openly post the blatant drivel we get from Eadon.

            So, Reg hacks own up and, to paraphrase a line from Brighton Rock, "You are Eadon and I claim my Register prize."

            1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)

              Re: Re: As OP I'd like to know... Why does Eadon keep picking fights?

              Nope, Eadon's not one of us, he's just another commentard. Albeit a Marmite character.

              1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

                1. M Gale

                  Re: Marmite is disgusting

                  Only if you don't like it.

                  In fact Marmite have run a successful UK advertising campaign based on the whole "you either love it or hate it" thing. Probably the first time I've seen a product get more sales after adverts showing people pulling all kinds of stupid faces eating it, and even starving tramps chucking it back at their would-be benefactor.

        3. Rob
          Go

          Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

          "Hmmmm there seems to be a high pitched whining sound on the forum. I can't quite put my finger on where it is coming from."

          That would be the noise coming from your arse as you seem to be on fire today for talking so much shit. (Sorry for the feeding but I couldn't resist).

      2. jason 7
        Facepalm

        Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

        Why do I need backwards compatibility when I already have a 360 or a PS3 which gives 100% performance on those titles?

        Is it too much hardship to run two boxes for a while or relegate one to the spare room?

        I mean if its that important you find a way surely? Maybe take the VCR to the Heart Foundation instead?

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        2. JEDIDIAH
          Linux

          Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

          > Is it too much hardship to run two boxes for a while or relegate one to the spare room?

          That's a kind of "you use our stuff only" kind of assumption. It ignores anything else you're doing and the ability of your equipment to handle all of it. Not to mention the space.

          Yes. Needing to deal with a bunch of legacy equipment is a bother.

          1. jason 7

            Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!

            @JEDIDIAH

            "That's a kind of "you use our stuff only" kind of assumption. It ignores anything else you're doing and the ability of your equipment to handle all of it. Not to mention the space."

            ???

            Sorry, can you run that past me again?

            If you really really need to play old games then keeping the original console is not a hardship. Plus it will be far better than any kludged software "PowerPC to x86 conversion process for selected titles only" solution anyway.

  15. GBL Initialiser

    Lots of comments floating around the internet at the moment along the lines of "Omg it caused Sony's stock to jump 10%" well http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/sony-stock-rise-board-consider-entertainment-spinoff/ is also worth a look

    A suspicious mind may be inclined to think that Sony held off until the XBox reveal.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A behind the scenes look...

    A somewhat funky behind the scenes view... Can't help but feel MS is putting too much emphasis on Xbox Live and not on Gaming itself. Its reminiscent of MS putting too much emphasis on Metro and not enough on making a decent OS UI...

    http://www.bloomberg.com/video/the-new-xbox-an-exclusive-look-at-how-it-was-made-wjoUDgSXTKq1tWQrqsFOew.html

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MS are really pushing Kinect this time, but who uses it for every day gaming?

    Has anyone ever used the Xbox Kinect for conventional multiplayer FPS i.e.

    Far Cry series or Call of Duty...

    If so, can you describe the experience and add if its a gimmick or explain how it adds to the fun?

    Thx!

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'MS promised during an Xbox1 ad that 'you and your TV are going to have a relationship.

    ...That's sure as hell not what I want. I want a next-gen gaming beast that pushes open-world open-ended action gaming beyond all expectation... A true immersive virtual reality... But what MS seems to be offering is something creepier, something more annoying and quite possibly all-out invasive... Thanks M$, I'm getting enough of that everyday from google and facebook!!!

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-21/microsofts-bid-to-push-the-xbox-further-beyond-gaming#r=rss

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: A behind the scenes look...

      > Can't help but feel MS is putting too much emphasis on Xbox Live and not on Gaming itself.

      For many gamers, it is all about the online multiplayer gaming. And those gamers pay, in the form of an Xbox Live Gold subscription. On those points, I would say that sorting out issues with XBOX Live (lag cheaters etc) is absolutely central to what MS are offering.

      The games? Those are for the 3rd party developers to work out, not MS.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    XBox One vs PS4

    If we make the radical assumption that the purpose of a games console is to play games, then the two systems seem remarkably similar. A bit of investigation, however, reveals a few significant differences:

    - the clock speed on the PS4 is 25% faster

    - the PS4 uses faster GDDR5 RAM, compared to the DDR3 RAM used in the XBox One

    - the PS4 manages 1.84 tflops, compared to 1.2 for the XBox One

    Leaving aside such issues as second hand games, online requirements, subscription services, etc., on purely technical grounds the PS4 hardware seems to be better suited to playing games.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      @mutatedwombat

      Thanks for a clear, concise post. I think you're right to infer that the details of the whole offering ("online requirements, subscription services, etc") are likely to have a difference in peoples choice. As for the hardware differences, (and lets just hope that the Lowest Common Denominator doesn't bring down the quality of games) though my geeky side awaits Tomshardware analysing those hardware differences (since they are in the habit of examing the performance bottlenecks of gaming PCs).

    2. austerusz

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      "Seems" is the right word.

      iPhones have had traditionally lesser hardware than Android phones but still manage to be snappy simply because the software running on them has less overhead and requires less resources.

      There's plenty of room for the OS on Xbox One to be snappier than the OS on PS4.

      Also, for real tflops values, we should wait for the actual units. So far only Microsoft seems to actually have one and it's a prototype.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: There's plenty of room for the OS on Xbox One to be snappier than the OS on PS4

        Bear in mind that one of them is a Microsoft OS.

      2. mark l 2 Silver badge

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        Yes but the problem with the Xbox is that its running Windows which isn't well know as being resource friendly

      3. Mark .

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        I don't think that software magically makes things faster. Android also runs on lower end phones; and the original iphone had a GPU which was rare at the time, so your statement isn't true there. And whatever is the case with the OS - an application won't magically be faster or use less memory just because it's on ios rather than Android, same for games on PS4 vs X Box.

        I think the main point though is that whilst the PS4 may have better specs, the X Box may still be good enough for the games available, and people my buy for other features. Isn't this usually the case - that the PS leads on specs, but doesn't necessarily sell more than the other consoles?

    3. Jeroen Braamhaar
      Holmes

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      The argument that better specs mean a better experience has been beaten to death and then some.

      It depends on the internal architecture as much as the individual component specs.

      You can have the fastest processor, memory and GPU - but if you have a bottleneck bus to connect them all, it's like hitting the gas and brake on your car - it makes a lot of smoke and noise, but you're not going anywhere.

      Let's wait and see when both consoles are side by side and then make an honest comparison.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        I think Sony has worked around a lot of potential bottle necks.

        Anyway games are the main thing, how many games have you seen playing on a PS4? and a XB1?

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: XBox One vs PS4

          IIRC, NONE for either one...YET. Live demo units don't seem to be available for either one as of yet.

    4. Chris Beach

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      cept, that technically the PS3 was better than the 360...and yet almost every head-to-head showed the 360 having better visuals (obviously the gameplay was nigh on identical, apart from the 360's superior multiplayer)

      It all depends on the developer support Sony and MS give, and MS have been historically better at this. Obviously having a department for development tools, and already strong relations with the graphics hardware guys via DirectX helps.

      It also sounds like the Xbox One is closer to production (and more importantly dev kits) than the PS4.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        "that technically the PS3 was better than the 360...and yet almost every head-to-head showed the 360 having better visuals"

        That chrome exhaust has a hole in it!

        Ladies are you really going to arugue over this? If you do, you may as well have a fking DUNCE tattoo'd onto your forehead.

      2. Should b Working
        Thumb Up

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        The potential was there, it just wasn't executed properly.

        The overall experience of PS3 lags behind the 360, and not just the visuals. I really thought the PS3 controller just felt limp because it was so light.

        Game load times on the BlueRay were poor - something Microsoft will have to combat with the next Xbox too. I foresee a lot of that hard drive being taken up with caching game content.

        1. Pie

          Re: XBox One vs PS4

          One the Xbox One the whole game is loaded to the hard disk from the physical disk, you can then put the disk away never to get it out again.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: XBox One vs PS4

          @should b working.

          Those are all Microsoft myths. Blu-Ray load times are quicker than the Xbox DVD for 90% of the disk surface. Microsoft loved to spread the myth by using the 10% of the DVD that was quicker than Blu-Ray. Almost all Xbox gamers were too thick to bother to check.

          Ditto for game visuals... How many gamers have never seen a PS3 exclusive in all it's glory.. Standing ontop of the train in Uncharted 2 with a dropped jaw.....

      3. MJI Silver badge

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        Some developers could handle the PS3 OK, Dishono(u)red looks and plays great on PS3, Ubisoft have pulled their fingers out, the original Assassins Creed must have made new records in frame tear, yet the 2s were OK.

        Usually now the differences are just that, one has better textures, one has better lighting ect.

        We have the best 4 PS3 games for graphics here and the new generation will have to beat that and run at full HD.

        My question is what will Naughty Dog do with the PS4?

    5. BigE67

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      It's all about the total experience, not he hardware. Microsoft got it right with Xbox Live - it's an online community that works really well.

      If all your pals are on Xbox Live, you won't be upgrading to a PS4.

    6. plrndl
      FAIL

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      "If we make the radical assumption that the purpose of a games console is to play games", you're really not paying attention. The purpose of these machines is to get a net-connected computer hooked up to your TV so that they can sell advertising, and run your life for you. The rest is mere detail.

      1. plrndl

        Re: XBox One vs PS4

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/Xbox/10087148/Xbox-One-will-track-viewers-TV-habits-and-reward-them-for-watching-ads.html

        "Microsoft’s new Xbox will track what users watch on TV, but also reward them for watching adverts, a new patent application suggests. "

    7. Techs UK

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      DDR3 is better at general purpose processing than GDDR5, which they need for the whole flexible experience. PS3 showed that too much emphasis on pixels was a stumbling block for developers.

      The software in the XBOX ONE is phenomenal. this is going to make it. they have the azure cloud behind the whole thing, so as sure as anything in a couple of years your GFX will be processed in the cloud anyway. this box will grow into the cloud for more performance. sure you'd need excellent broadband for that, but broadband is only getting faster too.

      1. M Gale

        DDR3 is better at general purpose processing than GDDR5

        Really? How?

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      Got any sources for that info?

    9. jason 7

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      And what will happen is the developers will all code to the slowest machine for the cross-platform titles.

      Its only on the dwindling exclusives that the extra power might help.

      So having a vastly more powerful machine is a waste of time.

      The thing is if Sony's is more powerful, then can they sell it cheaper than MS? Probably not with their financials right now.

    10. Maharg

      Lessons from history

      I realise this is a ‘tech’ site, but its hardly ever about the spec, gaming machines (regardless of Microsoft trying their best to ignore it) are about the games and the marketing, almost 10 years ago there was a machine called the Nintendo Gamecube, which spec wise was better then the PS2 and equal to the Xbox but nobody brought it, they carried on with the PS2 and to a brought Xbox’s by the 'box' load, why? Games, Same thing happened before that with the Saga Dreamcast, which at the time was amazing, this thing had screen on the controller and an in built internet connection… in 1998! What happened? The PlayStation and N64 still sold more units, and most stuck with them until the PS2 came out.

      Its about the games and the Marketing, not the spec, just look at how well iPhones sell

    11. Anonymous Coward
      Alien

      Re: XBox One vs PS4

      It's not that straight forward, developer knowledge and deployment on the platform is significantly more important for the first half of a console cycle, and who wants Sony with their even more arcane repeated violations of customer rights in the name of IP and copyright protection.

      I don't understand attacking Microsoft on the XBox, it's where they have really excelled, supporting smaller and larger developers on the platform, unlike Sony initially, and it's clear the games are going to be made, so why does launch titles really matter for the long term success of the console? I guess you need some momentum, but it's not a make or break issue any-more as long as some big titles come within the next 4 months, and others are planned for release shortly after.

  20. Herby Silver badge

    Why don't they call it a PC and be done with it

    Then load Windows 8. All one needs to do is add a keyboard and a mouse (or take in some hand gestures) and you got a reasonable piece of kit.

    Sure there is $$$ to be made doing games (more that the Movie industry I'm told) but I really don't want to be holed up in some dark living room watching stuff wander on my screen.

    If I wanted a game, I'd get my old "Pong" game that I built on a circuit board (only a couple of chips) and entertain myself. It was OK then, and it is OK now. For more advanced stuff, a nice spacewar (on a pdp-11) like I saw at the Stanford coffee house in the early 70's. Otherwise, why bother. Sure there are lots of nice graphics, but Cinema is much more entertaining to me.

    As for the name. Why is it called "One"? didn't they already have the first "Xbox" a long time ago. Seems that going from "360" to "One" is backwards to me. Maybe they should call it "Xbox Vista" or some such.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not looking too good

    Even the hardcore Xbox fanboys are upset.

    The XBox One is DRM'd to the hilt. and DOES need a mandatory internet connection to activate and deactivate disks (which are uniquely numbered). If you want to lend the disk to someone else, they have to pay full price, if you want to install it on another user account, they too have to pay full price.

    These facts have been confirmed by Microsoft.

    There is no backwards compatability, and the box is as ugly as sin. No games of note were shown, and it's quite clear the XBox has lost it's gaming focus...

    Details here:

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. tempemeaty

      Re: Not looking too good

      I just read that article, all I can say is I'm appalled at Microsoft.

    3. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Not looking too good

      Any word from Sony itself about how it will handle things. Because, lest we recall, there is one other company that adopts a similar model to what Microsoft is proposing.

      Valve.

      Funny how we don't get too many complaints from Steam users about the lack of resale (and I would imagine Microsoft's legal team has their files all set up for Europe as well--bet you every software transaction is a LEASE and therefore not subject to exhaustion).

      1. Jediben
        WTF?

        Re: Not looking too good

        That's because Valve and Steam have sales with incredible regularity - games of a certain age are guaranteed to be sold at a price that reflects their actual value in these events, rather than the hugely inflated prices of the console games. Impulse purchases at £45 a pop don't happen, but at sub £10 Steam makes huge sales. That is why you don't hear Steam user complaints - if you wait long enough, it gets sold at a huge discount. This doesn't happen with 'new' (but ancient) console games.

        When you pay less than £7 for a game in this event, you don't have to consider any lost 'resale' value due to the account-only feature inherent in Steam. I can count on my litle fingers the number of games I've been able to buy through Xbox Live for a similar price (and that was by exploiting a US site sale to get MGS 2+3 rather than Xbox uk).

        If Live will emulate Steam with these sales is yet to be seen, but I'm going to guess that they won't.

        That is why you don't hear Steam user complaints - if you wait long enough it gets sold at a huge discount.

        1. M Gale

          Re: Not looking too good

          "That is why you don't hear Steam user complaints"

          I've heard plenty, just that most of them are out and in the flesh, not on some online forum where Valve employees and useful idiots can troll them to death.

  22. Zot

    Halo?

    The new kinect looks interesting, if they allow the same access as the old one.

    The shared graphic memory is exactly what people like Carmack have been waiting for.

    Is that an ssd drive?

    License fees for indies?

    Nothing else to comment on really, at the moment.

    1. Bill the Sys Admin
      Thumb Up

      Re: Halo?

      Nope its the old spinning rust platter ;)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Halo?

      #1. "The shared graphic memory is exactly what people like Carmack have been waiting for."

      Can you expand on that please...?

      #2. "The new kinect looks interesting, if they allow the same access as the old one."

      How did the old one work for FPS like Halo & COD?

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Halo?

        >>#1. "The shared graphic memory is exactly what people like Carmack have been waiting for."

        >Can you expand on that please...?

        I can't speak for Zot, but he may have been thinking of this interview with John Carmack (iD software - lead programmer of Commander Keen, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake) discussing graphics architecture, memory, PCs vs Consoles and of course, his then-upcoming game Rage:

        http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/John-Carmack-Interview-GPU-Race-Intel-Graphics-Ray-Tracing-Voxels-and-more

  23. IHateWearingATie

    Games games games in the UK

    I have a PS3 but the lack of backwards compatibility means I'm free to choose between the two as nothing I have at the moment ties me in. I thing they have both missed a trick there, as at least the first versions of the PS3 ran PS2 games.

    The TV stuff is mostly irrelevant for the UK as I doubt it will work with Sky (who have 10 million subscribers here don't forget) or Virgin (another few million subscribers), and I can't imagine a very compelling offer for free view channels.

    Kinect? Did seem to make an impact on the 360 and it does look better than the ps4 version, but I wonder how many unique purchases it will drive.

    I also wonder about how much the streaming video functionality is a differentiator. My suspicion is most people may use it if it is there on the console, but it doesn't drive the sale. Netflix and Lovefilm have kind of sewn that market up (with a few others like blink box) and they're both available pretty widely on consoles, TVs, DVD players etc.

    Games is where it's at for me. Hopefully there will be more detail soon about the exclusives - it looked to me like MS always did better on those (gears of war particularly), and given I can't sell my PS3 if I want to keep playing my PS3 games, Sony had better show me something special to keep me.

    PS Eadon - go and crawl back under whatever dusty Linux server you emerged from. You're not a gamer, and no one cares you hate Microsoft.

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Games games games in the UK

      I have already seen gameplay of two next gen games I want, Watch Dogs looks good, and I must have Killzone Shadowfall.

      The Sony presentation included five minutes of real play with no backup, then uploaded to the internet.

      Why didn't MS do similar?

      We are getting PS4

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Games games games in the UK

      Downvoted because the fact that YOU doubt it will work with Sky or Virgin doesn't imply it will be irrelevant. Like most people, I'll wait and see, not propagate speculative FUD. Agree with you on the games comment.

      1. IHateWearingATie
        Stop

        Re: Games games games in the UK

        While I love a good down vote, you seem to have missed the point of the comments threads?

        The whole POINT of them is speculative FUD. Proper information is in the article - uninformed analysis, idiocy (and the ever present numpty called Eadon) is for the comments thread.

  24. Bill the Sys Admin
    Thumb Down

    x86 Arch

    Now these are on x86 what is even the point of having a console. These are just PC's, with a custom OS. Then bolted on with premium services that charge you lots of money for nothing of value. Even a medium spec PC will be around 500 - 600. And you will be able to do alot more on it.

    I wonder how loud this is going to be the last one was like a 747 taking off...

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: x86 Arch

      The games.

      1. Bill the Sys Admin
        Thumb Up

        Re: x86 Arch

        I don’t really feel there are many that warrant buying a console to play. Plus with the move to x86 more games will be easier to port, less hassle for the devs. Might not be as many games that never make it over.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: x86 Arch games again

          OK here goes.

          Ever played the Uncharted series?

          Fantastic games, not available on PC.

          I also love the Killzone series, especially 3 MP.

          XBox owners will mention their love of Halo and Gears of War.

          See 4 good series not on PC except for a Halo.

          Then there is GT and Forza.

          And for platform games, Ratchet & Clank are excellent games and characters,

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: x86 Arch

      Worth noting at its x86-64. Interesting to see what side effects, e.g. whether new PC games trend to 64 bit, giving new PC sales something of a boost as the "good-enough" installed base of 32 bit Windows PCs become highlighted as obsolete.

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: x86 Arch

        When you are only targeting one specific hardware combo, you can tune for it.

        Also... even the original XBox was x86 and based on Windows/DirectX.

  25. Eradicate all BB entrants

    Wow so much whining about games.....

    ..... which they are saving for E3, like they said. They are announcing 15 games, 8 being new franchises. Getting all of the dull stuff out of the way means more time for on screen shiny.

    The fact that the spankingly gorgeous Forza 5 will be a launch title seals the deal for me as it is all I was after. If Sony are launching this year as well we might see GT6 by .... ummmmm ....... 2016.

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Wow so much whining about games.....

      Didn't you see Drive Club, that looks like a good game for the car game gamer.

      Oh and rumours are GT6 will be on PS4 as well.

      1. Eradicate all BB entrants

        Re: Wow so much whining about games.....

        I would buy Drive Club if I was a photocopier salesman and I blanked the trailer after ten seconds of BMW/Mercs ...... can't compare to P1/F1.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow so much whining about games.....

      "spankingly gorgeous Forza 5..."

      I have 3 and 4 and find them boring compared to Driver San Francisco and legacy PGR3/4....

      Why do people love Forza so much?

  26. Vortigern
    Big Brother

    One

    I see what they are trying to do with the name but it's going to be just as confusing as calling a train operator "First" ... there already is an xbox one in common parlance.

    It also suggests (along with one controller in the pic) that it's meant for loners - but then would you want to invite people to your house if you had that breeze block on show?!

    Perhaps the gov't asked them to do it to stop people meeting in houses now the pubs are shut so they can monitor all comms! :p

  27. Danny 5
    WTF?

    always on doesn't matter anymore

    I understand that it's going to be impossible to play second hand games, without having to pay a fee for it. I think this is utterly ridiculous, even more so then the always on requirement.

    This alone is enough for me (and i'm a fanboy) to not buy the new Xbox, but will probably go for Sony in stead (they don't have this bullshit requirement, right?)

    There's a massive market for second hand games and Microsoft wants to kill that, or at least take a slice of the pie? Fuck that!

  28. JDX Gold badge

    Kinect steals the show (again)

    Other than Kinect it seems a simple evolutionary update - better hardware, more integration, etc. Which is not a complaint really. But it seems like Kinect may again overshadow the platform itself... like nVidia accidentally entering the super-computer market this could be one of MS' big wins this decade.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kinect steals the show (again)

      According to polygon.com, Windows support for Kinect 2 is planned 'eventually'. I tried out a Kinect 1 prototype on Windows 8 and its actually rather neat.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kinect steals the show (again)

      Kinect and controller demo at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kENCgBu2o4. Like the Kinect improvements, quality, active player space, and the low light features.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Kinect steals the show (again)

        The YouTube clip doesn't demo any games! I want to know how kinect works with FPS such as COD or Driving Games etc...?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "They called it Xbox One cause they just took 359 steps backwards."

    ...More of an in-depth review and other memorable quotes here :-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22620039

    I think MS is making a big mistake thinking this box has to be all encompassing. They are failing to see smart TV's, HDMI connected laptops, $25 Linux TV Computers etc. Instead believing that more and more people want Xbox Live for TV etc. I for one don't. What I do want is a Asus / Samsung gaming laptop substitute that costs as much as a 10th of the cost.

    What I also want are cracking titles not over-hyped over-baked sequels. Looking at other BBC gaming articles, it seems the console market is locking out more creative indie developers. That's bad news for consumers as they'll be strong-armed into buying big-titles that aren't up to the hype-- similar to the direction of film sequels!

    Right now I am playing Far Cry 3, Hitman Absolution, Dishonored, and Bioshock Infinity. I really hope Watch Dogs and GTA V live up to expectations more, because the titles I mentioned are simply not exceptional enough IMHO!

  30. Pat 11
    Pirate

    hax

    The only interesting thing here is the gauntlet thrown down to the pir^d^d^d homebrew community. How long before it's hacked, who by and how?

    1. Radium

      Re: hax

      For disconnected use, not long - but then, what's the point....

      When you're connected back to the net, XBL will compare your save games against those held on the cloud and remotely brick the console if any shenanegans have been detected.

      I'd hate to think how much money that hackers have wasted buying consoles only to have them trashed by Microsoft. For some, it's a way of life.

      1. M Gale

        Re: hax

        Yeah, I've seen a few people stung by buying second hand Xboxes that turned out to be banned.

        Let me guess, was that their stupid fault for assuming that a device with no faults would work?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "taunt about enjoying the success that your friends aren't"

    My "friends" don't taunt me, my acquaintances may and my enemies definitely.

    If you feel the need to taunt your "friends", then you need to get a dictionary out and define the word friend. How fking weak are you to believe that taunting or showing off to someone gives you any stance? You’re a complete and utter fkwit if you do (says a lot for iPhone wankers think their showing off with their not even half decent phones).

  32. johnck

    Rest of the world?

    I know that Microsoft is an American company, and this event was in America, but how do the TV parts of this apply outside America where there is no HBO, ESPN and NFL. In the UK, I don’t know about the rest of the world, how will it interact with Sky, Virgin, Freeview, or Freesat?

    It does seem that this falls into the stereo typical arrogant American company forgetting about the rest of the world announcement.

    1. M Gale

      Re: Rest of the world?

      The Xbox 360 functions (sort of) as a Sky box. Friend of mine uses it as such.

      The real sky box does it better, but hey, some people might like controlling their tellies with a game pad.

      1. Radium

        Re: Rest of the world?

        I'm sure you're being ironic here, but for the norks who actually believe that you'd need to control the new Xbox via the gamepad, there's bound to be a "proper" remote produced for the new console.

      2. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Rest of the world?

        Well you can already get apps for LoveFilm and Sky Now and iPlayer on XBox360 so why would it be any different?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rest of the world?

      You imagine Microsoft have not been talking with Sky and Virgin then? Not what I heard.

      It does seem that this comment falls into the stereotypical arrogant twat with nothing to say but saying it anyway announcement.

      1. johnck

        Re: Rest of the world?

        I was just responding to what is reported in the article, but if you know how it will interact with Sky, Virgin, and the others please tell us as i am actually intrested in knowing about it. Do you also know about providers in other countries?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Rest of the world?

          Speculation of course but I'd be very surprised if there are no announcements by Sky or Virgin or both in the UK before or at Xbox One UK launch in Q3. Possibly not comparable with the USA offerings until Spring 2014. I know little about elsewhere in Europe or ROW but suspect some distance behind USA, Canada and UK.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Rest of the world?

            "but how do the TV parts of this apply outside America where there is no HBO, ESPN and NFL"

            Here here! I've been moving between Europe, USA and S America lately. The Xbox is a big seller in S America but TV boxes are largely out of date, the default having poor SD quality. Some HBO shows are syndicated GOT etc. Overall, its seems unlikely that the Xbox TV options have a large roll to play outside the USA...

  33. This post has been deleted by its author

  34. Frankee Llonnygog

    The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor using five billion transistors

    Or, in non-regurgitated-press-release speak, a CPU. Isn't this just a PC with a few extra bobbins? The software for many of the new functions could be realised as XMBC plugins.

    I suppose the heart rate monitor could be useful for auto-dialling 911 when middle-aged blokes get over-excited by hentai characters

    1. cheeryAllyjspurs
      FAIL

      Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system

      There was a patent filed early this year about Sony filing for secure RFI DRM for used games...

      http://www.techspot.com/news/51227-sony-applies-for-rfid-drm-patent-that-would-block-used-games.html

      So to accuse MS here who it seems are backtracking over this already today, Sony and PS4 is the one everyone has to be concerned about for this not MS.

      1. Danny 5
        Mushroom

        Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system

        well that's that then, i'll see which one i'll buy and hack it asap. If both companies are out to fuck me, i'll reply in kind. I've spent thousands and thousands of euros on new games over the past years, but i refuse to comply with this bullshit. If they're so hell bent on ruining the second hand market, i feel perfectly fine with stealing the games, rather then continue spending money on them, there's several good PC games i'll spend it on in stead.

        Pretty sure neither company is very worried about losing my business, but this is a matter of principle for me. Perhaps im being stubborn, or perhaps i'm exaggerating, but i don't really care.

        I'm fuming, can you tell?

    2. JDX Gold badge

      Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

      Is it actually a fancy 8-core CPU or just a standard i5 with hyperthreading?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

        Sony and Microsoft are both using 8 cores, not hyperthreading (both are AMD parts). As far as I know, no details have been revealed by Microsoft on frequency, cache, RAM type etc. so comments on relative performance are currently speculation or FUD though likely not much in it between what PS4 or One actually deliver.

        Like to imagine one side effect will be reasonably priced 8-core offerings from Intel for the mass PC market next year or at least in 2015 (economics should work out better on 14nm).

        1. OrientalHero
          Go

          Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

          Ooooh! Score for AMD then!

          Does anyone know if AMD's stock rose at all on that news?

          1. JDX Gold badge

            Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

            I wonder why they went for an 8-core CPU then, games are hard to multi-thread efficiently so I'd have thought a fast dual/quad core CPU would be better. But perhaps the price-point necessitates AMD.

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

              Multicore

              Since the PS3 uses 7 and the X360 uses 3, multi core processor usage is now common.

              There is an interesting PDF on Guerillas web site about multicore usage and the memory usage

              http://www.guerrilla-games.com/presentations/Valient_Killzone_Shadow_Fall_Demo_Postmortem.pdf

              1. MJI Silver badge

                Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

                Can't edit

                Here

                1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                  Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

                  Plus PCs have had multiple cores for nearly a decade (and gaming PCs for longer). Every gaming developer worth its salt realizes multicore (as well as using the GPU for more than graphics) is the way to go and has been working hard to tune their games and engines to use them more efficiently.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

                    The Xbox 360 Xenon has 3 cores, 2 threads per core so nothing especially new here.

                    There is a persistent myth among laymen and some casual programmers that multithreading is somehow difficult for developers and multiple cores aren't very useful but many of us write for multi-core as a matter of course without hassle in modern coding environments. Certainly some algorithms aren't susceptible to parallelism and various pitfalls to avoid of course when trying to efficiently utilise available resources. Mostly though, its simply that while large majority of PC systems are dual core or lower so why bother. A vicious circle, one cause of the 'good enough' driven decline in PC sales.

                    Roll on 8 core PC CPUs.

            2. M Gale

              Re: The sleek, black 64-bit system carries an eight-core x86 processor...

              "games are hard to multi-thread efficiently"

              One for AI, one for physics, two for handling the server, one for the client - that's 5 already and I'm not even trying.

              Of course it depends on the game. I mean you could massively parallelise a game of Minesweeper (one process or thread for every square?) - but why in hell would you want to?

  35. Radium

    Old Git Says "Yes"

    I'm in my mid forties, and old and cursty enough not to get bent out of shape over details that don't mean that much to me.

    It's probably against Reg forum regulations to be positive about something, but what the hell.

    My Nexus 7 has an app where I can control my Sky HD box on the fly and can view channel list/planner etc (most of the time, the app won't connect to the box, but that's another issue). So if there's an API set that allows this kind of functionality, there's no reason at all why the Xbox One can't be the front-man for my Sky box.

    Honestly, I'd love that. Being able to swap between TV/Games/Streaming/Smart TV stuff without having to swap HDMI inputs and pick up whatever remote control really appeals to me.

    If Xbox One can deliver all that, I'd be bloody chuffed to bits.

    If it can't, I'll still buy one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or just use voice control via Kinect and forget the remote :)

  36. GregC

    my 2p

    I couldn't give a rat's ass about Kinect (or Move on the PS, for that matter). I'm not interested in streaming to a console. I hardly ever play online. I realise I'm in a minority on that last one.

    Both the Xbox One and PS4 have, on the face of it, broadly similar hardware specs - PS4 maybe looks slightly higher specced but in the real world it will almost certainly be marginal. What's pretty clear is they will both chuck a metric shitload of polygons around at 1080p/60fps, with lots of pretty lighting effects, which is pretty much all that's required when you're outputting to a TV.

    So really, for me, it comes down to exclusives, and which company I dislike least. Sony have the franchises I like (GT, LBP, Uncharted) and I dislike them less than MS, so on the face of it I should be buying a PS4 come the end of the year.

    But.

    GT6 and GTA5 are both scheduled for the end of the year too, on current gen hardware. Assuming they arrive on schedule (and let's face it, Rockstar and Polyphony both have form when it comes to being late...) then those two between them will keep me playing for at least 6 months. So I'll probably end up just keeping the PS3 and watching the fanboi bunfight...

  37. chiller

    Bit of an ugly mother, looks like a VCR from the 80's.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      I thought that too - just a black box. Hardly sleek based on that photo, not that it really matters IMO.

  38. Wize

    Mattrick demonstrated starting up the console by saying "Xbox on,"...

    Does "Xbox off" turn it off?

    Lots of fun until you are watching a film or TV show via Netflicks or LoveFilm and one of the characters shouts at their kid "Turn that xbox off and go do your homework"

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Mattrick demonstrated starting up the console by saying "Xbox on,"...

      Hehe! Alas, I believe the new Kinnect features fairly bog-standard noise cancellation techniques to discriminate between sound from the television, and sound coming from humans in the room... It wasn't implemented to avoid the situation you outline, but so that voice commands can be heard over the virtual explosions.

  39. marksmith85
    Thumb Up

    Looks Good to Me

    Had a few consoles in the past and owned a Wii, PS3, Xbox 360 and do a bit of PC Gaming to boot.

    Watched last nights launch and have to say I hope the talk and gesture feature work other wise the Kinetc 2 will just sit atop of my TV gathering dust.

    Will be interesting to see if they show any games running on the XboxOne hardware at E3 as to me the demos from last night (apart form COD Ghosts) just looked like tech demos.

    The launch itself was okay but would have been happier if they had shown of all the new game aspects first and then said 'oh btw it also does the snap mode, voice recognition etc'.

    Overall I shall going into this with an open mind and see what happens at E3, if I don't see any real gaming content then may pass for now.

  40. CommanderGalaxian
    Stop

    What about the games?

    Does anybody know if the new XBox is still useable as a proper games platform?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What about the games?

      They only really showed some rubbish Kinect stuff, reminiscent of Kinect Star Wars,

  41. kyza

    So we got to see a box...

    ...and heard lots and lots about nebulous social stuff & groovy feature (much of which Sony had already announced as part of the PS4 spec - snap-on, for example), a new Kinect sensor that you *must* use for the console to function and broadly similar specs to the PS4.

    Still leaning toward Sony atm - I think price-point is going to count for a lot.

  42. Silverburn
    Happy

    Aaaah, that's better...

    ...an MS article, and EADON is out in force.

    His posts are like popcorn for the soul.

  43. Levente Szileszky
    Thumb Down

    Rather unimpressed by this ugly black box...

    ...so I'm not sure what is it that made ElReg to write "the sleek, black 64-bit system" - yeah, it's 64-bit and black... sleek?

    It's an ugly black, boring, nondescript box, eerily reminiscent of those desktop PC cases from the late 90's, the one people put their 14" monitors on top of...

    ...seriously, I expected something much more impressive, even from a Ballmer-led MSFT; while I wasn't a huge fan of the 360 at least it wasn't this bland, absolutely non-characteristic, mee-too box...

    ...though as I think about it it's a perfect testament of everything Ballmer made MSFT to respresent during his 10+ years long reign at the helm.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's it I'm out

    http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/xbox-one-kinect-isn-t-an-owellian-spy-tool-1153505

    You NEED Kinect for the consoe to work, I'm out,

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's it I'm out

      Just block the camera with that handy box of tissues and you'll be fine, my son...

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No exchanging / renting games

    From what I can gather, you can't swap games with your friend, or rent game from Blockbuster, without an additional charge. Where's the fun in that?

  46. Levente Szileszky
    FAIL

    The day after the announcement, 4PM Eastern and...

    ...MSFT's big announcement clearly turned into a PR DISASTER: http://kotaku.com/xbox-exec-if-you-re-backwards-compatible-you-re-real-509340172

    When I was watching the show I thought it's just probably me and my anti-office-rat/anti-bureaucrat mindset, I'm the only one who finds that laughably lame, utterly fake, staged discussion between the NFL Commissioner and Xbox head honcho Don Mattrick completely ridiculous or rather downright embarrassingly pathetic (best were the cutaway/wide shots, showing them in their utterly stock corporate socks, ugly shoes and khaki pants - it was like a parody!)...

    ...but it seems no, most of the web indeed responded somewhere along the range of 'meh' to 'hate it'...

    ...oh well, chalk up another screwup for the super-dull, uber-incompetent Ballmerian team (how far we are, 15, 20 of these royal fuckups during the past 10+ years?)

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BBC: Xbox One pre-owned games may require fee payment

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22623010

    So how will this work.. You pop in a 'new' game. But it wont play unless you allow the Xbox one to dial home to see if the game was previously owned? I can see people sharing profiles... Plus growth in tools that crack Xbox live profiles looming...

  48. andy_spoo

    WTF?

    Seriously, it's ugly as hell and it's massive!! Who the hell wants that in there room. I just want to play games. My phone and TV does all this other junk. And making a feature of Skype...my TV does that already (come to that, so does my phone).

    No real game play shown. Sony got that right. And as mentioned by others, it's lower on the specs than Sonys. And I hate sport, so most of what was shown was pretty boring.

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Moving into a gaming renaissance era or command & control...?

    My hope for true virtual reality gaming may never transpire, with MS too busy trying to control ones living room than produce classic titles. After reading the posts on here I fear we're not moving into a gamer renaissance but rather a new era of control.

    With Xbox-1 and other consoles closing the door to Indie developers new original game quality will suffer. For example look at driving games in recent years. There may never be another open-world Driver-SF. Take Forza Horizon for example, hardly a classic, it looks more like a Unity demo!! The talented PGR racing series guys went under this year too. This has to be a warning sign. It might not be worth buying that many new games folks. COD with its dog companion is already looking over-hyped. No doubt it will be shoved in our faces like a Tom Cruise over-hyped movie.

    If game quality is going to be a factor of back-end image rendering with Xbox increasing its farm-size to 300k, then quality is going to massively vary from region to region and class of broadband. That's not an attractive quality! I'd rather we were all stuck on the same locally rendered game versions only!

    1. M Gale

      Re: Moving into a gaming renaissance era or command & control...?

      To be honest, if they were going the way of rendering stuff remotely, then why spend hundreds on a games console when you can download the Onlive app for nowt or buy the Onlive box for significantly less than a brand new "next gen" machine?

      You'll be about as likely to be able to sell or give your old games away in any case.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Moving into a gaming renaissance era or command & control...?

        @M Gale

        "Imagine a typical game: there are characters in the foreground that interact with the player, and a background landscape with trees, hills or an ocean. Mattrick said Microsoft’s new servers, which the company increased to 300,000 from 15,000 currently used by the Xbox 360, will be able to do some of the work creating images for that background landscape and then stream them back to the console and TV, while the Xbox One focuses on making the characters look as impressive as possible."

        "The basic concept in the quote above makes sense, as it’s essentially a distributed computing set-up. But what’s disturbing about the scenario is how it hints at a possible divide in the end experience. It seems to indicate that your game will look and/or play the way it’s supposed to if your Xbox One is online, because it’ll be able to take advantage of that cloud-computing back-end. It's a nice advantage to provide to developers, sure. But, if your console won't be online, then you probably won't want to buy games that use that back-end."

        "Furthermore, what about consoles that are online but won't have always the best bandwidth? Will the Xbox One have to work differently or harder if the connection falters? Will there be missing detail or inconsistent visuals? There’s probably going to be some sort of sliding scale protocol for the cloud processing but, if there’s any kind of noticeable difference in performance, Microsoft will have a big problem on their hands. "

        http://kotaku.com/xbox-exec-if-you-re-backwards-compatible-you-re-real-509340172

        http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/05/22/microsoft-and-sony-diverge-on-gaming-cloud/

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Gold without value

    A hobbled bit of hardware that won't let you do anything online without a subscription?

    Stuff that.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eadon

    I think he's just curious as to what kind of integer is being used by el Reg to store the downvote count.

    At his current rate though I wouldn't imagine it would take long to max out a BigInt.

    I suppose they could have deployed a float or double at the risk of Eadon losing some accuracy on the number of downvotes he has attained?

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