Back from the brink?
Great news for Nokia, and good for everyone to have a third player in the market.. I hope their market share continues to rise.
Apple’s three most recent mobiles together took more than a quarter of smartphones sales in Britain during the first three months of 2013, we're told. The iPhone 5 was the period’s most popular handset, but the Cupertino giant's UK market share continues to be eroded by Android - and even Windows Phone 8. Google’s Linux- …
"I've seen about one MS phone in the wild here in England" - guess you're too busy at your keyboard trolling anti-Microsoft to get out much, eh?
They are out there and growing in number. Slowly, I'll admit, but I certainly see more when I'm on the bus/train than I did about a year ago.
Moreover, the games that I write log phone IDs against my website for online high-score tables - I can see how many new activations I get, and how many times a single phone has played a particular game. I normally get a couple of hundred new players per day - and I'm just a bedroom coder with no budget, marketing or smash hit. So while I'm skeptical about the actual stats, I would not be surprised if they were at least near the mark.
@Eadon - you're right, I don't trust stats... except those I can be certain of, such as those my own systems generate.
Like I said, every time someone starts one of my games on their phone, it checks in with my website, sending me the phone's ID (unless, of course, connectivity is not available). Said website then either creates a record of the new ID or updates the "last access" date of an existing ID.
I see a steady rate of both new ID activations and returning IDs every day. Moreover, my games are not huge hits (sadly) that can sustain a listing at the very top of the marketplace (the self-fulfilling prophecy), nor can I afford the marketing to promote them. Except for times when I luck out and get some marketplace featuring, there are very few peaks and troughs in my stats.
If your first argument were true (marketplace dump), I would expect to see a surge in my activation stats. If your second were true (high return rate), I would expect to see high numbers of one-time activations with no reactivations.
I'm not saying that 7% is accurate by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact that I have a consistent stream of activations and reactivations would indicate that there is a slowly but steadily increasing number of people buying and then continuing to use WinPhones.
You should look at Samsungs marketing budget - makes Apple and well pretty much everyone else look poor in comparison. The problem is you can dress it up all you like but it's still a Samsung and when the next new Android phone is a Nokia or Motorola or HTC or ?? people will buy that.
Seems to depend where you are. In central London, maybe you see all sorts. Sitting on the train from York to London, everyone seems to have a Blackberry. They often have a 2nd phone - iPhone normally. Maybe it's different at the weekend when people who don't travel for business are around?
Last week El'Reg ran a story that some marketing zeebs' survey had found that Samsung "loyalty rating" was above Apple's now. Of course it isn't impossible that the zeebs were working for Samsung, or possibly hoping to be, but it tend to suggest they've got some market traction.
Global marketshare for Windows Phone has fallen.
Sorry, if you hoped there might be some worth in your Nokia share, I have bad news for you. Windows Phone is dead. Users are finding out the hard way that it's a obsolete OS, when all their apps aren't available. They look on at their friends with great iOS and Android apps, and then find nothing but tumbleweed on the Microsoft store...
The next phone I buy will be a Nokia Windows phone - not for me (I now have enough Android apps purchased that I'll be staying there for a while) but for someone who trusts me with the shopping.
She's looked at all the commonly available phones around at the moment and genuinely prefers the Windows interface, likes the way the Nokia phones look and work (including the cameras which seem better than the competition for the price), and is not at all bothered about how many applications are available as long as Angry Birds is one of them.
This pretty much reinforces the vague feeling I had that Nokia / Windows isn't inherently useless, it's just a bit too late to the market in the UK - I know way more people who are locked into Apple than I do people who are buying their first smartphones.
I'm really not sure there's enough there for them to pick up enough share to be a real third player - I think they'll have to eat into the Android market if they are to do it and that means competing on feature / price ratio.
I really wish Nokia would stop being Microsodt's lapdog and drive hard Mer + Qt-based phones (e.g. Sailfish etc. though I'm not a fan of gusture-based UIs such as that in Sailfish).
After all, it looks like Mer + Qt is going to be the most open of all mobile platforms, and it would be such a shame to see the company that invested so much to make both happen not profit from them.
With a friends S4 today, nice phone if not a little plasticky and cheap, vibrant screen and lots to adjust and fiddle with. It really appeals to the geek in me.
However, his biggest complaint, the take your eyes off it and the video will stop function has now stopped working and the hover your fingers above the screen does not work.
He has only had to reset it twice from frozen screens.
Will I buy one?
Hmm that is the question.... Nope.
Nokia have still got a lot of ground to make up to become a contender, although it is good to see them - and the Windows Phone - looking more and more like a viable option.
Lack of love in the US pre-dates the Microsoft-Nokia partnership by a long way, so it would be foolhardy to state the the drop in share on the other side of the pond is solely due to the WinPhone OS - thought undoubtedly some will...
There's still a long way to go, and any slip-up now could result in disaster, but at the moment, the long-game-plan appears to be moving in the right direction - this side of the Atlantic at least.
"each time they sell a phone, they simply create a dissatisfied customer, who won't go back. Why? The phones suck, Nokia hardware is not state of the art any more, but a generation behind. The operating system also sucks."
So when does this Eadon report come out?
I have 3 friends on WinPho (all Nokia) and they're all very happy. Do you know why? Because the phones do exactly what they need them to do, and they do it well.
These are not people who want to customise their phones, and they don't need whizz-bang features. Essentially, they would also have been happy with the older BBs (can't say I've looked at BB10/QNX yet).
True, it might not be the demographic that MS were hoping for, but I can see it being a good growth area for them.
Like it or not, WP8 is a functional, simple, and (arguably) elegant OS for a phone.
And what do you mean by "state of the art" hardware? Nokia has the best camera sensor and microphones that I'm aware of (although, the HTC One camera looks to be getting closer).
I agree, I am due an upgrade now and I am swithering between a Nokia device and an Android device.
I wont be buying an iPhone, simply for no other reason that they dont appeal to me.
A colleague of mine gave me a look at his Lumia and I have to say the device looks great physically and it does have an astonishing camera.
I think I will wait to see if there is anything extraordinary in the next version of Android before I make my choice.
I can see where @1Rafayal is coming from. When my iPhone died I was this -><- close to letting MS back into my life with a WinPhone, it was only a marginally better deal on the day that saw me walk out with a Samsung. I wouldn't buy MS lightly, as I have developed an instinctive preference for anything but MS where possible, but the Nokia kit is lovely and on a phone the OS works just dandy.
@Eadon - you seem to have been deafened by the whooshing noise of the point as it went flying past you. As someone who actively avoids MS where possible, I still seriously considered the WinPhone as it's a good piece of kit that actually works.
I use MS when I'm paid to and the only MS software that I haven't found a workable alternative for in the corporate environment is Exchange. If someone so instinctively averse to MS can look at WinPhone and see see it as a worthwhile tool then they're doing something right. Give yourself a break, take the blinkers off and look around you, there's some good things happening in some surprising places.
Beer, as it's the most chilled icon. Stay frosty.
My wife was picking a phone to replace a broken Lumia 800. The choice was between a €129 Luma 520 or a €149 Huawei G5120. Even though the Lumia 520 would have had a more familiar experience, the Huawei was in most regards a better phone for only a little more. She chose the Huawei.
In Nokia's defence I doubt it would have had as much Vodafone crapware as the Huawei did. Nor would I have had to spend a considerable amount of time replacing the godawful Huawei launcher with the ADW launcher to give the phone some semblance of sanity.
"Compare that to the US, where BlackBerry is now down to 0.9 per cent of the smartphone OS market, and Windows Phone declined year on year, from 9.7 per cent to 5.8 per cent"
There seems to be a mistake in the article. The latest Kantar numbers for March says US Windows Phone share is 5.6%, up from 3.7% a year ago.
Windows Phone is growing nearly everywhere, and now has a 6.5% market share in Europe (EU5), which is 1/3 of Apple's share (19% and dropping). It is not inconceivable that Windows share could pass iPhone share by next year in Europe - will Eadon's head assplode?
I don't understand what's happened to HTC.
Sure they've been overtaken by Samsung, who make their own components and have a nice marketing budget. But HTC still seem to put out some nice handsets, and they do metal ones with rubber coating to Sammy's preferred plastic - so should have some shiny factor. I can understand them not making profits, as the competition has certainly hotted-up in the last few years, but I'm surprised by how few sales they seem to make.
well for me personally it was after buying the Desire Z for a premium price only to be told later that they wouldn't be updating the O/S even though it could physically support it.
There were also a couple of really annoying bugs with their sms and mail apps that I never received replies to etc.
It was a decent phone on day 1 but I will never buy from HTC again due to their post sale support.
Exactly the same here. Promised upgrade to a HTC HD2 from WinPho 6.5 to 7 that never materialised. Had to root to install android, which was great, but it was an annoyance everytime it needed a reset.
As a result, neither Microsoft nor HTC are getting a look in for my next "upgrade." Also, the HTC One, whilst shiny, is an awful flagship - no removable battery or uSD card? they're my main gripes with the flippin iPhone, for goodness sake.
It's probably down to the fact they are playing second fiddle in both markets they are in. When you've got limited shelf/stock room space you are going to back the winners, for Android that's Samsung and for WP8 that's Nokia.
Perhaps it would be better for HTC to go all out WP8 like Nokia and get an equal share of the admittedly small pie and Microsoft's money then to try and compete against Samsung on quality because it isn't enough.
What you're seeing is HTC slavishly copying Apple.
HTC have followed the Apple model of restricting manufacture so that they can claim they've 'Sold Out' of handsets to import some sort of 'runaway success' in the minds of potential buyers.
While the effect usually lasts only a few days before people get wise to it, Apple has learned that most of its purchasers will never admit to being duped so they keep the handsets.
Apple have worked very hard over the last decade or two to sell 'the image' rather than 'the machine'. Because of this, there are a devout number of Apple-owning consumers who think it's cool to own last year's technology in today's designs and they proudly go around displaying their i5s like the Emporer displayed his new clothes.
The question that remains to be answered is if HTC can perform the same.
That's me all over; even replaced the stupid case I was given with the work iphone5 that had no hole in the back - why on earth would I want people to see that I'm carrying an iPhone 5? Apart from to get that self satisfying smile as they look at you & think 'unlucky, enjoy your iPhone & its tendency to make you want to smash it & replace with something that has a modern interface'
Nice phone - one or two apps aren't available that I'd like, but the OS is fine, prefer it to my ageing iPhone (which I keep just for two apps and some music I haven't been able to move over - works fine as a media player). One advantage is that it can be much cheaper than the top end Lumias, if you can live without some of the bells and whistles.
..............I would point out that on a thread like this a certain gentleman's postings vary in inverse proportion in intensity and number according to how scared he is that it might, just possibly. be good news for Nokia (or Redmond for that matter). On the basis of his contributions to this thread my statistical analysis says that the Finns are doing gangbusters.
PS. Yes, I am being a trifle satirical.
I've read through all the posts and I've considered the arguments on both sides.
Having done this there's one central thread running through all of the posts and it's this:
Microsoft have failed with Windows Phone.
They've failed spectacularly. If you look in a dictionary (a non-US dictionary), under the word 'Failure' you'll see a picture of a Windows Phone. No words. Just the picture. No words are needed.
As for all you people who'll down-vote this post or claim that it's wrong (which it isn't)... well, you can all go and get fucked. Because you're all wrong. Wrong to the max. You're so wrong there's a picture of you in the dictionary - right under the word 'Wrong'. It's my bat, my ball and I make the rules. And you're wrong.
Android has won. Get over it.
Microsoft have the problem that although Samsung do offer phones with Windows installed they are kind of treated like the red head stepchild and pushed to the back of their offering in favour of Android.
Maybe Samsung have reasons not to want to get too involved with MSFT after years of being a Windows OEM for their computers they fear that if Microsoft get too much of a share on phones they will start to bring in restrictions on what the OEMs can do (such as offering alternative OS's)
The conspiracy theory is that by releasing Android phones with WP8 blonked on them Samsung is still entitled to kickbacks from MS, and is taking those kickbacks to leave less in the pot for HTC and Nokia. This is a move to hold WP8 back so Samsung has weakened opponents, MS and Blackberry, when it releases its Tizen phones and pushes for 3rd spot.
If Samsung get 3rd spot with Tizen they are firing a shot across Google's bow showing they don't need Google but as the number one Android handset seller Google needs Samsung to maintain market share which is vital for an ad based revenue stream. This of course gives Samsung a much stronger negotiating position with Google and would eclipse the money spent on "developing" WP8 handsets.
Not for me, since I'm already fully on Android... but my old man uses it, and he loves it. Everyone I've spoken to, including devout Apple lovers have enjoyed using it. Businesses (including mine, in which I am a senior systems engineer) are loving it with its easy integration and UI.
I've used it myself a few times and personally find it quite nice to use. Smooth, fluid, does the job well, no real hassle getting it setup etc.
I refuse to believe anyone can convince me that WinPho 8 is a bad OS (especially Eadon since he tends to err on the side of batshit stupid), because from a functionality and usability standpoint, it ticks more boxes than Apple's IOS, and is pretty close to being as nice as Android.
My wifes phone was an ageing HTC. When the time came to replace it, our iPhone using children suggested that she try "that nice one that Holly Willoughby advertises".She has had it a week now and it works excellently.
The interface is as pretty as an iPhone except that it is actually functional.
As a non-geek, my wife doesn't give a monkeys about how sparse the store is. It came with Angry Birds and other things.
The phone side works as does the texting and the camera is "really good".
This looks like a mass-market device to me.
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