back to article Microsoft finally ships Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 7

Following a protracted development process, Microsoft has at last shipped the release version of Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 7, with the new browser due to begin rolling out to customers via Windows Update within the next few weeks. In the meantime, customers who can't wait for the automatic update to arrive can download …

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  1. MJI Silver badge

    I have XP here so no use

    Well there are millions of PCs out there running it.

    MS are not interest luckily other browsers are available

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I have XP here so no use

      Do upgrade to Windows 7, you will wonder why on earth you stuck with XP for so long when you do. It's much nicer.

      There are more computers running 7 than XP now.

      1. N2 Silver badge

        Re: I have XP here so no use

        @ Do upgrade to Windows 7

        Shouldnt it really be the applications driving an upgrade to Windows 7 as opposed to a web browser of which there are plenty of others to select?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I have XP here so no use @N2

          "Shouldnt it really be the applications driving an upgrade to Windows 7 as opposed to a web browser of which there are plenty of others to select?"

          I presumed his comment was an OS comparison, not because of IE10. Is open to being read both ways, though.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: I have XP here so no use @N2

            Actually it is more the point that MS is writing software which will not run on one of its own operating systems, yet a lot of other people do.

            There is no law which says you have to change software which works

        2. Irongut

          Re: I have XP here so no use (N2)

          So what exactly do you think a web browser is if it is not an application?

          And where did he say upgrade to Win7 for IE?

      2. petur
        FAIL

        Re: I have XP here so no use

        I had to at work... boy, does it suck!

        First thing I installed was ClassicShell to restore a load of functionality they stripped in Win 7. Progress, eh?

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

          Re: I have XP here so no use

          @functionality they stripped in Win 7.

          Serious question...Just what was stripped in Win7 from XP?

          From the point of view of the shell, I cant think of anything...

          1. Jordan Davenport

            Re: I have XP here so no use

            Though not all are applicable regarding Windows Vista, try reading these:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_Vista

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7

            Two quick examples in Windows Explorer itself are the lack of the ability to customize the navigation toolbar in Explorer and the classic one-column start menu. I personally am fine with those two changes, but others aren't. Classic Shell sort of remedies the navigation toolbar and completely remedies the start menu.

            All that said, Windows XP only has 14 more Patch Tuesdays in its life. After April 8, 2014, when that zero-day that affects all versions of Windows is discovered, it will never be patched in XP, just like what happened to Windows 2000 in July of 2010.

            1. TeeCee Gold badge

              Re: I have XP here so no use

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_Vista

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7

              Thanks for that. Can't say I'd missed (or even noticed the lack of) any of it.

          2. Jordan Davenport

            Re: I have XP here so no use

            And for the record, I wasn't the one that gave you a down-vote. I see no reason to vote someone down for a sincere question asking for clarification.

            1. MJI Silver badge
              Thumb Up

              Re: Jordan Davenport

              I can tell by the way you write you didn't

          3. petur
            Meh

            Re: I have XP here so no use

            Top feature I missed was the favorites/bookmarks menu in explorer. For a load of projects I have a ton of locations on servers that I need to go to from time to time, these bookmarks were a real timesaver. Yes, you can make a folder somewhere and put shortcuts in it, but it's not the same.

            Another one was the dotted lines in tree views and the reduced indenting. I have to deal with some complex folder structures, with identically named folders in them (at different levels of course), and those lines and indentation help to know where I was without having to look at the path all the time.

            If you want to use the feature 'commandline here', you have to do shift + right-click on the folder (where a simple right-click worked in XP)

            And so on.... maybe all small annoyances but hey...

            For the record, only linux machines at home so I'm already half a windows hater anyway ;)

          4. Wibble

            Re: I have XP here so no use

            They added 10Gb to WinSXS. Makes VMs massive

            1. Philip Lewis
              Devil

              Re: I have XP here so no use

              Hyperbole, surely?

              Mine is only 6GB (and growing)

          5. PhilBuk

            Re: I have XP here so no use

            @Geoffrey W

            How about search within files for text - yes, 3rd party apps can replace this functionality - but it shouldn't work like that.

            Phil.

      3. MJI Silver badge

        Re: upgrade to Windows 7

        Is it free?

        XP does the job, all the software I want works. Steam works, my video editor works, my BluRay burner works

        Why pay just to change the OS?

        And I use Win 7 at work

        1. 404 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          #1 Reason to Upgrade From XP

          @Everyone Here:

          Windows XP only recognizes/uses 3GB RAM

          Right there. That's the reason to upgrade to Windows 7 Pro.

          ;)

          1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

            Re: #1 Reason to Upgrade From XP

            @404

            Alternatively we could run software that wasn't so mind-numbingly bloated and inefficient that it doesn't need 3GB of RAM.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: #1 Reason to Upgrade From XP

              Some of us want to run the latest games though. Oh you run Linux? Never mind.

      4. Michael Habel Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: I have XP here so no use

        Well you are correct about One thing...

        There is One less XP install in the Wild, given that I switched over to Mint 14 (Linux).

        Installed WINE and then my copy of O2k3 SP3 (w/Proofing Tools (also SP3)), and I ain't gonna bother looking back.

        I just need to find a way to convert all these stinking Word Template (.dot), Files into something more usefull like .ott. So as to ditch Office as well...

        Good riddence to bad rubish!

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: I have XP here so no use

          W7 does bring a lot of nicer GPOs to the party (many can be had by installing the client pack on XP but not all). V2 profiles die a lot less than older profiles on XP. You can make W7 look almost like XP if you so wish (again GPO'd so it will follow you around systems). After getting used to the newer sysprep it is easier to make a universal image especially with SAD driverpacks).

          W7 is a worthy upgrade from XP. Device drivers will be your main reason to update, lots of devices are now coming with W7+ drivers (a newish milling machine didnt even support vista which was odd as they DID have server2008x64 drivers)

    2. mmeier

      Re: I have XP here so no use

      MS simply looks at the next 5 years and sees XP dying in April/2014 with the end of support. No sane person uses an unpatched OS (No matter what breed) on the Internet. So over the next 12 month the vast majority of XP boxes will disappear from the Internet and get replaced by Win7 or Win8. Makes little sense to backport IE10 to a dying OS. The fact that it is in "extended maintenance" (Patches/Security only) makes this MS policy as officially stated.

      1. Lord Voldemortgage

        Re: I have XP here so no use

        "over the next 12 month the vast majority of XP boxes will disappear from the Internet and get replaced by Win7 or Win8"

        If the various interests could get their acts together this might be a good time to push Linux in the home - businesses will mostly move from XP to Win 7 (or maybe even Win 8) but home users who feel the impact of the initial capital expenditure more keenly might welcome an alternative.

        Steam to be the deciding factor?

        1. mmeier

          Re: I have XP here so no use

          If I can buy my hardware under Linux like I do under Windows(1) AND all my games run by "drop in DVD, click start" and it works on a penable with FULL support of the Wacom(2) - I might consider Linux for my privat boxes.

          It's about as likely as the Penguins winning the DEL championship so I guess pre-ordering Win9 is a prudent way to go :)

          (1) Go into shop, grab gear, take home, piug in, use. Buying gear by "does it fullfil my needs and has a good TOC" rather than "does it work under Linux Distro x Kernel a.b.c" is nice

          (2) One system for all my non-servers

          1. petur
            WTF?

            Re: I have XP here so no use (@mmeier)

            Not sure about the downvotes you got, your (1) is quite valid. Linux support is even becoming worse for some hardware. For example, Canon stopped producing linux drivers, good thing project Gutenberg has them covered - but this will mean support for brand new models will be non-existing.

            Recently I was in the market for a small/portable full-duplex scanner. Number of models still sold that are supported: NONE. Went with a model that some bloke claimed he got working (guess what: not working here - scanning in a windows VM until I get it working)

            1. mmeier

              Re: I have XP here so no use (@mmeier)

              My guess is fans of the Krefeld Penguins do not like me rubbing in that they had their last big shot in the DEL in 2003 and currently being number 4 will likely not make champion in 2013 either (Go Sharks!)

        2. Michael Habel Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: I have XP here so no use

          Really though you are correct. I hope that Sites like the reg with

          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/18/picking_a_linux_distro/ (Picking a Disrtro)

          Will continue to press this issue forward. Ive dealt with a lot of 'nux Systems in the past.

          And none of 'em we're as nice an experience as Mint w/Cinnamon has been so far.

          Installing the latest WINE, is a snap. after which installing Office2k3 is as much as it has always been.

          Like I said I need to start to actually learn how to play with both MSOffice, and or LibreOffice / Oracle Open Office So I can re-script all my non-working (.dot) Files. Which either do not work outright or do not render 100% correctly when they do,

          As for Games, and by proxy Gamers. I hear that Mr. Newell is currently covering that with Steam for Linux, something I also have currently installed on my Mint Desktop. AFAIK I think its still in Beta (and it feels like it when the Steam Web Front-end is always crashing my System), but these are still early days.

          Sadly I suspect that enough People will ignore Linux on the Desktop though. But, it its a choice of having this or Windows 8, or having a System that can use DVB-C (TV-Cable). and DVB-S2 with SD & HD decoding via an nVidia VDPAU Graphic Card - (Video Disk Recorder & XBMC). Something THAT Microsoft is (or has been), unwilling to do up till now has already pushed me to Linux ages ago. It's just that now that I'm felling "confident" about it (i.e. Linux), plus the imminent death of XP, plus the fact that my current "Rig" dates back to AMDs' 754 Socket AMD64 w/DDR. Not the best system w/which to run handbrake with! One shudders to think how it would get on with Vista / 7 or that fecking cluster*'&@ of an OS Windows 8.

          Besides all that having a Linux install also means that I can actually compile more useful up-to-date applications for my NAS Box as well. Wow actual programing on a Computer. I mean what is the 80's LOL

          Microsoft isn't quite dead yet. Hopefully Someone over their will catch the hint and chuck Ballmer into the Street before its too late. Then again, it may already be ~too late~...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I have XP here so no use

      IE does have the advantage of having far fewer security vulnerabilites than say Chrome or Firefox though.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I have XP here so no use

      I have XP here so no use...

      .

      Oh boo hoo, no support for a 10 year old OS.

      Guess what same goes for all other browsers and OS' out there.

      Try getting the latest version of Safari to work on a 10 yr old version of MacOS

      Try getting latest version of FF to work on a 10yr old version of Linux.

      You cant expect companies to support (obsolete) software for free, forever.

      And yes I also have XP machines.

    5. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: I have XP here so no use

      That's OK. I've just played their minesweeper demo using Opera on XP.

  2. Neil Greatorex

    Minesweeper - Perennial timewaster?

    Not since Windows 3.1, that was the last time I can recall trying it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Do not track?

    I have "Do not track" enabled on Firefox 18.0.2 but Ghostery tells me it has blocked two trackers on this page.

    (Google Adsense and Google analytics)

    Do they just ignore my preferences? Maybe someone can educate me.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Do not track?

      When you hear "Do Not Track" just think of Neville Chamberlain waving the signed armistice and proclaimed "peace in our time" at Munich in 1938.

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  4. Mark Simon
    WTF?

    What’s the point?

    Windows XP users have always had the choice to upgrade to a better browser for free. Ditto all the other versions of Windows. And this was a long time ago.

    All IE10 will do will be to make it safe for web developers to implement HTML5 & CSS3 features already available on all the other browsers.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: What’s the point?

      The point is two-fold:

      * it will allow companies that for whatever reason, are tied into the IE system to upgrade to a more usable browser

      * upgrades mean less support for older versions of IE which Microsoft is obliged to supply.

      Of course, it's basically too little, too late. I think any website statistic will show a continuing downturn in IE's market share and those users are not coming back, not for Minesweeper and not for Angry Birds. IE 10 should have been released for Windows 7 last summer before Windows 8 puked all over everyone's breakfast. This will be the last major version of Internet Explorer. A collector's item if you will.

      1. TheVogon Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: What’s the point?

        "This will be the last major version of Internet Explorer".

        It won't. IE11 and IE 12 are already in development.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: What’s the point?

      Hence I use Firefox on 2 XP and 1 7 PC

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: What’s the point?

        GPO browser lockdown is the only reason I use IE. I agree that firefox is much better. Chrome is certainly getting there with regards to enterprise options though.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What’s the point?

      "Windows XP users have always had the choice to upgrade to a better browser for free. Ditto all the other versions of Windows."

      IE 7+ isnt available on the really old versions of Windows.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Trollface

    Can't wait, I'll download it now!

    It's the latest MSHTML DLL with all the latest security patches.

    Oh, and there's a browser skin thrown in too but I can't remember the last time I used that.

    1. JMB

      Re: Can't wait, I'll download it now!

      I was going to download but I was put off by this "I would also like Bing and MSN defaults Get Internet Explorer 10 ".

  6. JDX Gold badge

    A bit dubious

    I'm all for grabbing the new version and taking it for a spin... getting a bit disenchanted with Chrome and went off FF ages ago. IE9 is pretty good but still not as good as Chrome so I'd hope IE10 would be good.

    BUT that "protracted development" makes me nervous it might not quite be there yet. Not that I use IE as my main browser just yet anyway so maybe I'll take the plunge as and when it wants to install.

  7. Mark C Casey

    Only Microsoft...

    Only Microsoft could make it hard to port a web browser.

    Mozilla, Google, Opera and Apple can all not only manage multiple versions of windows but also multiple operating systems. You really have to wonder what Microsoft's thinking is of tying some of the capabilities so tightly to the OS are.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Only Microsoft...

      You mean like how IE9/10 run on Windows desktop, phone and tablet which are essentially 3 separate OS?

      What they're thinking (I suspect) is they want their new software to use the new OS features, rather than simply target everything at WinXP APIs.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Only Microsoft...

        You mean like how IE9/10 run on Windows desktop, phone and tablet which are essentially 3 separate OS?

        Yes, how separate are they actually? Didn't Microsoft make a lot of noise about them all now having the same kernel? For a userland application the API, which for Windows >= Vista is defined in .NET should be all that matters. And other browser manufacturers have managed it on those three operating systems and more.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Only Microsoft...

          And on Server don't forget! 4 OSs....

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    3. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Re: Only Microsoft...

      "You really have to wonder what Microsoft's thinking is of tying some of the capabilities so tightly to the OS are."

      Umm, I'll go out on a limb and say planned and enforced obsolescence. The thinking is if you want the new browser? You have to pay for the new Windows. The new MS Office (2013) isn't any different, they want Windows 7 or better. I don't know that it won't run on the older Windows and hopefully I won't have to find out if it runs on the current Windows but there it is.

      1. JDX Gold badge
        Holmes

        Re: Only Microsoft...

        >>Umm, I'll go out on a limb and say planned and enforced obsolescence.

        WinXP is about to lose any support or patches. Why would they waste time supporting it, or implicitly supporting it? Considering IE9 doesn't run on XP this is not even an argument, they clearly aren't going to re-support XP.

        The argument is only if they should be supporting Vista. I note not one single person has complained about lack of IE10 in Vista which is probably why they aren't doing it... not even Windows users want Vista. No diehard XP users are going to upgrade to Vista when patches stop being released - they'll go to W7 if they can get a copy.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: Only Microsoft...

          vanilla windows 95 didnt even have IE - you needed service pack 1 to add I.E. so it wasnt that integrated at launch.

          1. Michael Habel Silver badge
            Meh

            Re: Only Microsoft...

            I wasn't even aware that Windows 95 even had a "Service Pack", it's the first time I ever heard of it.

            Did ya mean to say "B OSR2"

    4. TeeCee Gold badge

      Re: Only Microsoft...

      The problem here is that XP and earlier do have bits of IE squirreled away fairly low down. The fact that the update system for earlier releases relies on IE is a good clue here. In Vista and up "Explorer" and "Internet Explorer" are different beasties, while on earlier versions they share a fair number of common DLLs and such, going back to them actually being the same thing on 95.

      So the fact that 9 and up are very much different and seperate to the OS makes them nigh-on impossible to replace the IE version on legacy Windows versions with. The others have an advantage here in that they happily coexist with the IE rat's nest on earlier versions, not replace it. The only practical approach for MS would be to bite the bullet, rename IE as something else and change all its calls to be that something else so it could be the default browser while coexisting with, er, IE like everyone else does. Having punted a stonking great wodge into the IE brand, I can't see them even considering that.

      It looked like a good idea in terms of being lightweight and in using one bit of code to do several jobs (you have to remember that with most people on dialup connections, patch sizes were critical at the time, so using two big DLLs where one could be made to do the job was a nono). Then it went through being a millstone around their necks to being a full-blown fuckup. Now it's all fixed, but not in the obsolete OS versions.

    5. mmeier

      Re: Only Microsoft...

      With IE10 it most likely is the dual nature (Metro/Desktop) that needs to be stripped out. From the looks those are not two programs but one, similar to the old Explorer/IE combo(1)

      Older Versions, IIRC up to IE8, where coupled with stuff like the Windows Explorer sharing components/DLLs both ways so they where really "build into" the OS. This changed with either IE8 or IE9

      (1) Makes sense, why maintain the same code twice

      1. Atonnis
        Devil

        Re: Only Microsoft...

        That would seem a bit odd. Even Chrome works in the full-screen Metro-ified form if you set it as the default browser in Windows 8.

        I just reckon Microsoft were holding out to see what the Windows 8 uptake would be, and behind all the ranting and BIG CAPITAL LETTER COMMENTERS, Microsoft have thorough and reliable feedback through their hosts of forums and developers that are showing them that the corporate world isn't interested, let alone eager, to move into Windows 8 territory. Everybody just spent a couple of years getting Windows 7 out to everyone and ironing out all of the problems that came with their legacy software.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Only Microsoft...

          MS would be well aware that businesses wouldn't suddenly jump to W8 because half of them haven't jumped to W7 yet. It's a pattern they know very well because it happens every time and forces them to support software 10 years after the consumer market has stopped using it.

          If IE10 was W8 only, that would be another story.

  8. Bob Vistakin
    IT Angle

    Does it download Chrome any faster?

    Surely that's the one and only time users get to see IE these days, after buying a system with Windows pre-installed or installing it themselves.

    1. jonathanb Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Does it download Chrome any faster?

      It is not the only thing people use IE for. Some people use it to download firefox. In Ukraine, they use it to download Opera.

      1. Gavin King

        Re: Does it download Chrome any faster?

        This is not so!

        It's Belarus for Opera, isn't it?

  9. GBL Initialiser

    I switched from Chrome to IE10. Chrome was being sluggish and crashing on occasion. IE10 seems consistently faster & I haven't had a crash yet after months of use.

    Chrome also randomly failed some http://www.acidtests.org/ where IE10 worked every time.

  10. Herby Silver badge
    Coat

    So, will this get rid of...

    ...IE6??

    The next question is: Will the Microsoft "samples" run under any other browser?

    "Gone is 60 seconds..."

    1. Jordan Davenport

      Re: So, will this get rid of...

      IE6 will be officially damned after July 14, 2015, when the last operating system that runs it (Windows Server 2003) will reach end of life. IE7 will unfortunately probably linger until January 14, 2020 though...

      Regarding those demos, yes, most I've tried actually do run under Firefox and Chrome, even in Linux. I haven't tried Opera, Safari 6, or anything else on Mac. HTML5 is an incomplete specification though, so until the W3C signs off on HTML 5.0 next year, nothing that implements HTML5 is actually standards-compliant.

      1. Jordan Davenport

        Re: So, will this get rid of...

        Damn, I forgot about Windows XP Embedded. Its EOL is January 12, 2016, so IE6 will live on until at least then, assuming I've not forgotten yet another esoteric build of Windows that runs IE6 and will be still supported.

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: So, will this get rid of...

          When will Windows for Warships EOL ?

          1. mmeier

            Re: So, will this get rid of...

            Depends on the warship, the aliens, Rianna and wether it does navigation or weapons targeting

            Now excuse me, busy dusting of the Z-plan so we can build a PROPER battleship in case the aliens come.

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: So, will this get rid of...

          I'm not holding out much hope for Windows XP Embedded. It is almost exactly the same product and so if MS kept the patches rolling then all XP users would be OK until 2016. However, I think it is far more likely that MS will take the view that embedded systems are not internet-facing and therefore don't need patches.

  11. Belardi
    Trollface

    So, does this mean that IE10 running on Windows7 is as ugly as IE10 on Windows 8 to match the rest of that ugly UI?

    1. GBL Initialiser

      Which? There are two versions of IE10 on Windows 8. One Metro styled and one desktop. You can choose which you use and they share data.

    2. JDX Gold badge

      No. I just upgraded from IE9 to IE10 on W7 and the basic interface is basically identical... I wasn't even sure it had installed until the "welcome to IE10 tab opened".

  12. Ian Emery Silver badge
    Windows

    Time wasting

    I am sure that somewhere, someone with too much time on their hands has already got IE10 running on Win3.1.

    I have XP and Win7 boxes, I also prefer XP, it lets me do things Win7 refuses to allow, or makes very difficult, like use the full capabilities of my HP printer, which only has XP or Vista drivers (and NO WAY am I installing Vista!!); or my ancient, but excellent Epson GT7000 SCSI scanner - how ancient?? It shipped with a Win95 install disk.

    No I am not a tightwad, I have had THREE newer scanners, but none of them is as good as the old GT, either too noisy, too fussy or just too damned LOUD.

    The icon depicts me with my first pint mug of "morning" coffee - the extra strong stuff to get me moving. (I wish I really had that much hair left).

    1. mmeier

      Re: Time wasting

      If it is a "real" Vista driver and not a re-labeled XP driver (They changed the driver model) than the Vista driver should run under Win7 and better as well.

      As for the Epson: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/5873-63-epson-twain-windows

  13. magnetik
    WTF?

    standards

    "E10 brings the same leading standards support"

    WTF!? When has IE ever lead in terms of standards support? What a joke!

    1. Wibble

      Re: standards

      How many IE developers does it take to change a lightbulb?

      None, they just (attempt) to redefi e darkness as the standard.

      1. captain veg

        Re: standards

        > How many IE developers does it take to change a lightbulb?

        Just the one, but there's still a problem with it flickering that should be sorted out in the next release.

        -A.

        1. captain veg

          Re: standards

          > How many IE developers does it take to change a lightbulb?

          It doesn't matter. With the new user interface, you'll never work out how to switch it on.

          -A.

  14. bigfoot780
    Meh

    XP Holdouts

    Why? Its ancient, poor 64 bit version. Can't inject drivers on deployment. Win7 is better. Can't see many ents going for ie 10. Seeing as many will be stuck on ie8 for quite a while.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: XP Holdouts

      Why? Maybe:

      Good enough for some, not everyone needs >= 4GB memory.

      You have old apps that only work on XP and/or you can't re-licence for a new OS.

      You are not a geek so see spending money for OS changes, most of which you suspect your won't like, is not worth it compared to other choices.

      <= other choice.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: XP Holdouts

      Why replace a perfectly good operating system?

      If it does the job why spend money on another OS when you can spend it on food, or drink, or mortgage ect

      1. mmeier

        Re: XP Holdouts

        Because 14 month from now it is no longer a good OS unless you run it in total isolation from the Internet. And a well planned switch takes time

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @mmeier

          We already do that in some cases, having VMs for old w2k and XP stuff. Easy to backup/snapshot, safe from a lot of internet issues, no hardware driver problems when machines die, or re-licensing problems. Can run on other OS (e.g. Linux in our case, or MacOS or Win7 if you please).

          What not to like?

        2. MJI Silver badge

          Re: XP Holdouts

          Err they do have anti virus?

          So is my car no longer fit to use as they haven't updated the firmware for a few years?

          My car is older than my home computers OS. It still works, why replace it?

          1. mmeier

            Re: XP Holdouts

            Security is more than an AV scanner. That is only one part of it. And AV software will likely not get any more updates for XP post April 2014. Same for other software. Basically the same status as a Linux distribution 2-5 years after that version of Linux came out. And unpatched holes can allow takeovers that an AV scanner does not detect.

            XP soon will like a car with rust holes in important parts and run down breaks etc. (1). The TÜV (german safty board) would deny the operations permit to such a car on the next 2 years check because it is dangerous to others.

            (1) that will get no more spare parts

        3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          @mmeier (Re: XP Holdouts)

          "And a well planned switch takes time"

          My switch from XP-in-a-VM to Win7-in-a-VM took no longer than the time to install the OS and apps, and then to swap over the virtual discs containing my data. I wouldn't call it well-planned -- how else could I have done it.

          It was, of course, just one system and one that I was intimately familiar with. But then, that probably describes rather a lot of systems. If I were migrating my company from XP to Win7 then, yes, I would expect to do quite a lot of planning, but the people who currently face that problem have probably already started work and if they haven't then it is probably because they do intend to "run it in total isolation from the Internet".

  15. Crisp Silver badge

    Compatibility Support Calls in 3... 2... 1...

    I'm so glad I don't work on a helldesk any more.

    I really feel for those of you that do though.

  16. James Pickett

    "You have old apps that only work on XP and/or you can't re-licence for a new OS."

    Like some older (but perfectly usable) versions of Sage, for which the only upgrade path is to buy the whole thing again, at full price. Or use virtual XP (e.g. VMware).

    If IE10 is the "final release", what will MS supply in future - Chrome?

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Old Apps

      We have a few customers who do not want to update their software, happy with our DOS version, had it for years ect ect.

      It was the best DOS software of its type and caused us major issues when creating our windows version, making sure we did not lose features.

      Now that cannot run on anything newer than XP due to MS removing features. Vista lost full screen support (our application was VGA mode 30 lines), 7 lost IP stack for the IP engine. Something gets removed every version.

      Server access was via a small Windows app which talks to the server in IP, IPX was native and was great in the Netware days

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Old Apps

        You might find it runs OK under Linux/dosemu. Not all do, but some work really well for that. Plus you can have 'DOS' keep NTP-sync'ed time if that matters at all.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Old Apps

          For more info. it uses a 30 line VGA full screen mode, with a decent (at the time) graphics card I was able to run in a window on my Win98 work PC. But 2000 & XP were stuck with full screen.

          Prior to 2005 or so we used IPX as the IP thunking engine was slow, when that caught up we were able to use IP for the lesser servered customers. others kept with IPX.

          We used the same database engine for our Windows software, we took 3 or more goes to get a working system some languages dropped due to various issues. Until we ended up with a Windows language written by the same company as the DOS compiler.

          As to newer to IT people. Yes there have been client server engines for DOS applications, in fact the one we used started as one, over time things such as Windows server, Linux server, IP, Windows clients got added.

          The server was also once demonstrated to be four times quicker on a dual boot server between whatever were the current flavours of Netware and Windows, when on Netware.

          1. mmeier

            Re: Old Apps

            IPX and Netware. That is oold stuff. What versions of Windows could not run your server? NT family or the DOS-Externders?

            Netware was nice in it's days, ran ORACLE 6 and IIRC 7 on Netware 3.x in the 1990s. But over time it has lost the App-Server race to other systems, both NT and various Unix boxes. Administration was nicer than NT for a while but even there Win2K and better won the race

            Not to mention that Netware programming was typically done in C and that language has fine support on Unix, OS/x and Windows.

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: Old Apps

              Well back when we started with Netware, Windows Server was an Oxymoron. NT4 was pants compared to the nearest equivalent from Novell.

              A couple of customers switched from NT4 to NW5.1

              Our DOS app works on

              Real/32

              The last version of MSDOS

              Windows for Workgroups

              Win95

              Win98

              Win Myalgic encephalomyelitis

              Win2000

              Win XP

              Apart from 2000 or XP IP was a nono

              Our Windows app works

              Win XP

              Win 7

              No idea about Vista or 8

              Database server I have used on NW3.12, 4.0, 4.11, 4.2, 5, 5.1, 6, Win NT4, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2012

              Still need to try the Linux version

          2. John G Imrie

            Re: Old Apps

            IIRC Doom was a client server engine running on IPX when it first came out.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        Headmaster

        tsk, tsk

        ect ect.

        Can't stand that. "et cetera" -> "etc". "ect" is short for some kind of brain scan and they're wasted here! ;-)

  17. Wibble

    From my web logs, IE10/w8 is running at 0.8% compared with Chrome's 34%. All the IE's bundled together only reach 24%.

    This will have no effect on IE's decline as the only effect will be IE9 being replaced with IE10

    Anyone with a choice doesn't choose IE

    And in any case IE10 is still the *worst* modern browser, scoring a lowly 320 on the HTML5Test. As ever, IE is born to stagnate when compared with all other browsers.

    1. mmeier

      Q: What typ of website / what theme are you running?

      Q: What are the percentages of the other browsers / what rank do the combined IEs get?

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        He actually provides the stats. IE 10 on Windows 8 is a minnow at the moment so 0.8 % sounds absolutely right. The stats I have access to (international corporate site) have a similar breakdown - Chrome edging ahead of Firefox and Firefox now ahead of IE (combined) for the first time ever. MS really dropped the ball with the IE 10 release strategy. This coupled with the serious vulnerabilities that went for weeks unpatched (September and January) forced corporate IT departments to look for alternatives. FF 10 had been under evaluation from the start of last year, it was pushed out worldwide as standard before the end of December. The decision was taken to skip IE 9 so IE 8 is still on the install disk. My guess is that over the next quarter we'll switch to IE 10 but only if the intranet apps work in it. Other companies I know of that are just starting Windows 7 migrations will be sticking with whatever they have until the migration has been completed but I would expect IE 10 to replace and IE 9 and IE 8 by the end of the year but it'll be the biggest fish in a shrinking pond. Safari mobile is already about 15 % because of the all the managers with I-Pads.

        1. mmeier

          Yes and no. The OP gave us some data:

          >From my web logs, IE10/w8 is running at 0.8% compared with Chrome's 34%. All the IE's bundled together >only reach 24%.

          So the IEs and Chrome get 58 percent of the market. The question I had is: What do Firefox etc. get. If the stat is something like

          All Chromes: 34

          All IEs: 24

          All FFs: 20

          Safari: 15

          ...

          then the IE versions actually come in high since IE10 currently is Win8 only and more than one likely runs compatibility mode. And the numbers for the browsers also depend on the website you run, a Linux site likely will see less IE hits

  18. mark l 2 Silver badge
    FAIL

    From how this article reads the MS coders are so inept that they don't know squat about how IE 10 was written on Windows 8 so its taken 2 years for them to port it to Windows 7.

    No doubt within a few months it will be eclipsed by the latest Chrome or Firefox build again and it will take another 2 years before they finally release another update for Windows 7 or maybe then they will only be releasing browser updates for Windows 8 as Vista and XP are still in support but aren't getting IE10

    1. mmeier

      Actually the "two years" sound a bit boqus. Win8 is final since last September. Does one have solid data on when IE10 was finalized?

  19. Chairo
    Linux

    MS Penguin

    Cute - there is a "Penguin Mark" test on the Internet Explorer Test Drive page.

    I wonder if this has any deeper meaning - like free the penguin in your PC or something?

  20. adnim Silver badge
    Meh

    Sigh

    is this yet another MS browser that I will need to write a separate CSS style sheet for?

  21. Avatar of They
    Meh

    I have tried IE 10 on win7

    My initial review. "It does the job averagely."

    "Everything is now Square. Might suit Windows 8, don't suit windows 7. Other than that I really can't in all honesty say it is an improvement as most stuff is background stuff. The portal is pants as normal because it is something to do with 'frequent' things, not actually needed things. AND it doesn't represent this comments entry box correctly, the lines for email, password and title are missing, looks 'odd'."

    Though I still find it funny that IE 10 is still not 100% with leading standards. 30% more isn't great.

    1. Crisp Silver badge

      Re: Everything is now Square.

      Of course everything is now square. It's the only geometric shape that's still in the public domain.

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Everything is now Square.

        I installed IE10 on Win7. It looks exactly like IE9 to me.

  22. Spoonsinger

    So.....

    Is there actually a technical reason why IE10 can't run on XP? or is it just a case of some 'GetVersionEx/GetSystemMetrics" code being added to something which is otherwise a Win32 user level application?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So.....

      Direct2D and DirectWrite are the main reasons why IIRC.

      1. Spoonsinger
        Unhappy

        Re: Direct2D and DirectWrite are the main reasons why IIRC.

        Cheers, but, but, but.... Oh I really can't be bothered anymore. Enjoy.

  23. captain veg

    IE10 also adds support for 30 new web standards that were not supported in IE9

    So, now it supports 30 standards.

    Allegedly.

    -A.

    1. Wibble

      Re: IE10 also adds support for 30 new web standards that were not supported in IE9

      IE9,IE8, IE7, IE6, IE5 (which they call quirks mode)...

  24. DEAD4EVER

    ie10 nice

    While I don't use ie10 it is nice to have it as a backup I suppose but I am on windows 7 much better than xp but 8 is not worth going to unless you like touch screens. ill be waiting for the notification to pop up.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Sandtitz Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: ie10 nice

        Eadon, please stop promoting Safari as an alternative.

        Apple has dropped all support for it - the last Windows version is 5.1.7 and that version has a total of 81 unpatched vulnerabilities!

        http://www.cvedetails.com/version/130707/Apple-Safari-5.1.7.html

  25. JDX Gold badge
    Joke

    Hey El Reg you got a namecheck

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/download-ie:

    "Vastly improved”

    —The Register

    Final proof no doubt that El Reg are paid MS writers

  26. Cyrus Lesser
    FAIL

    Sadly, most websites need to be viewed in compatibility mode, so apart from faster speeds (yes, it IS noticeable) there are more hangs and freezes and crashes than ever before if you don't just set compatibility mode for ALL websites!

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