back to article Israel taps teens to become 'interceptors' in cyberwarfare

Israel has launched a new nationwide program aimed at training teenagers to carry out cyberwarfare operations. Speaking at the opening ceremony of the program at the Ashkelon Academic College, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu described the students who will receive the training as "future interceptors for the State of …

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  1. Graham Marsden
    Mushroom

    "It was not immediately clear, however...

    "...whether the training dispensed under the new program will be purely defensive in nature."

    What do *you* think?!

    "Sure it's only defensive, suuurrree. Any offensive training is just so they can write attacks to give other people training, no other reason at all, honest..."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

      The sooner the oil runs out the better - so the USA looses interest in supporting this horrible terrorist state.

      Then hopefully Iran will turn it into the worlds biggest glow-in-the-dark glass car park and we can have some peace in that part of the world for a change....

      1. tonysmith

        Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

        Now, I don't agree with the Israeli occupation of Palestine or anything else it does but hoping that 8 million people (not to mention another 4 million from the Palestinian territories) go out in a burst of Persian glory is a bit much.

        1. amehaye
          FAIL

          Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

          the *Palestinian* occupation of *Israel*.

          Fixed that for you.

          Remember that the 'Palestinians' are a bunch of disparate people who invaded the land of Israel over the years. They origin from Egypt, Syria, Jordan etc. You might like to do some reading of the history of the area, quite interesting.

          1. RICHTO Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

            So they have lived in Palestine a lot longer than the vast majority of Jewish families currently in Israel then....

            1. Bumpy Cat
              Unhappy

              Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

              @ RICHTO

              The majority of Jewish families in Israel are those that have been ethnically cleansed from every Arab state. Where should they go, mein fuhrer?

              1. RICHTO Silver badge
                Mushroom

                Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                That's just crap - most were economic migrants from Europe at the end of the last war. Hell now they are even importing 'Ethiopian Jews' (black)!

                The most equitable solution would be a return to within the defined borders of the Israeli part of Palestine as per 1967 of course. Not an ideal solution, and the Israeli state should have to recompense any displaced palestinians for their stolen land / property and / or give them the right of return plus compensation.

                1. RICHTO Silver badge
                  Mushroom

                  Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                  (Jews are of course big fans of compensation in these sort of circumstances so should be very familiar with how that could work: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/germany-to-compensate-jews-who-fled-the-nazis-in-the-soviet-union-1.403562)

                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                    FAIL

                    Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                    Trying to compare the flight of Jews from the Holocaust with the self-imposed exile of the Arab Palestinians, brought about by the invasion of Israel by other Arabs? Too pathetic a fail to even waste time arguing with. Please do everyone a favour, disconnect your Internet access, give your PC to charity, and surrender yourself to the nearest mental institute, as you are obviously too mentally impaired to be out in public alone.

                    1. RICHTO Silver badge
                      Mushroom

                      Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                      It seem you know very little about middle east history - unless you have a very wide ranging definition of 'self-imposed'.

                      The exile of the native Palestinians was mostly due to activities of (now famous) Jewish terrorists like Menachem, together with Jewish terrorist organisations like Irgun and Lehi and later the Israeli army running a campaign of ongoing ethnic cleaning - backed by (well documented) massacres, rapes, imprisonment, harassment, systematic looting and mortar attacks, followed up by racist laws created to prevent the residents of Palestinian villages ever returning!

                      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                        FAIL

                        Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                        "It seem you know very little about middle east history....." Obviously far, far more than you picked up in the madrasah, even if you did have a Facebook account there.

                        ".....The exile of the native Palestinians was mostly due to activities of (now famous) Jewish terrorists ....." For that to be true the majority of the refugees would have to have left AFTER the hostilities started, whereas it is historically provable the majority left BEFORE the Arabs invaded in April/May, so much so that in January 1948 the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal their borders against them. Haifa makes a particularly bad case for your delusion, with the U.S. Consul-General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, writing on April 22, 1948, for example, that “local mufti-dominated Arab leaders” were urging “all Arabs to leave the city, and large numbers did so.”

                        But a bigot like you wouldn't listen to the representative of The Great Satan, so let's look at what the Palestinian Arabs and other Arabs had to say:

                        ".....The Arabs of Palestine left their homes, were scattered, and lost everything. But there remained one solid hope: The Arab armies were on the eve of their entry into Palestine to save the country and return things to their normal course, punish the aggressor, and throw oppressive Zionism with its dreams and dangers into the sea. On May 14, 1948, crowds of Arabs stood by the roads leading to the frontiers of Palestine, enthusiastically welcoming the advancing armies. Days and weeks passed, sufficient to accomplish the sacred mission, but the Arab armies did not save the country. They did nothing but let slip from their hands Acre, Sarafand, Lydda, Ramleh, Nazareth, most of the south and the rest of the north. Then hope fled...." Palestinian nationalist of the time, Musa Alami.

                        "....: “The first of our fifth-column consists of those [Arabs] who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . . At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels...." January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha’ab.

                        ".... They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks.” Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, reporting on ARAB soldiers mistreating residents in Jaffa in April BEFORE the arrival of the Jewish forces. That would be the "volunteer" Arab soldiers that had arrived from Transjordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

                        Looks like it's back to school for you, only a real school this time.

                        1. RICHTO Silver badge
                          Mushroom

                          Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                          You are now contradicting your own previous claim "the self-imposed exile of the Arab Palestinians, brought about by the invasion of Israel by other Arabs"

                          Getting your lies mixed up?

                          And nice cherry picking of meaningless opinion pieces. Wikipedia has a good and reasonably balanced (pro Israeli if anything) history of what actually happened. It doesnt match your imagination very closely....

                          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                            FAIL

                            Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                            "You are now contradicting your own previous claim...." How? Simply because you want it to be so doesn't make it so. Maybe if you could supply some form of reasoning to go with your claim it might help, but I suspect supplying any form of argument that hasn't been spoonfed to you is just asking a bit too much.

                            ".....Getting your lies mixed up?....." Ooh, now I'm a liar just because you said so? Be a lot more convincing if you could back that up. On the other hand, you are supplying copious evidence of your naïveté and general lack of reading.

                            ".....It doesnt match your imagination very closely...." Wow, what a detailed and eloquent riposte, just shuddering under the weight of evidence supplied - NOT! I suggest you get an adult to help you out, less you embarrass yourself even more.

                            1. RICHTO Silver badge
                              Mushroom

                              Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                              You are a very poor appologist for an apatheid and terrorist state; your arguments and references are laughable - I don't need to post any evidence - the general aspects of what happened and continues to happen in Israel are widely known and even more widely documented. There is plenty of balanced commentary for you to go read on the Wikipedia page...

                              1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                FAIL

                                Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                                LOL, another case of "I know I'm right 'cos so many people told me so, so don't pop my bubble by asking me to actually show evidence for my beliefs".

                                "You are a very poor appologist for an apatheid and terrorist state....." I thought you were the one blindly defending the Fakeistinians? As I have already pointed out, Israel has Arab Muslim citizens (and Christian and Druze ones) with equal rights that can vote and own land, and are not threatened with ejection. But in the PNA (and Jordan) it is illegal to sell land to Jews, for Jews to even own land, Jews cannot gain citizenship, and all Jews in the West Bank are threatened with expulsion. Rights for Jews in many Islamic states are very strictly limited and Jews are often victimised even in so-called "moderate" Islamic states such as Malaysia. Want to rethink that little rant?

                                "....I don't need to post any evidence...." Well, actually you do or everyone will assume - quite rightly - that you can't support your statements with any facts, and that they are just dearly-held propaganda masquerading as a reason to hate.

                                ".....the general aspects of what happened and continues to happen in Israel are widely known and even more widely documented....." If they're so widely documented then why can't you demonstrate the truth of what you claim? I have no problems providing evidence, it is you that is floundering around and repeating unsubstantiated bile as fact.

                                Sorry if it blows a big hole in your faith, beliefs or whatever you want to call them, but if you want to repeat such statements then you'd better be ready to defend them. This is not like Malaysia, where you can just outlaw any counter-thought.

                                1. RICHTO Silver badge
                                  Mushroom

                                  Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                                  Im sure you are quite capable of using Wikipedia for all the above. I am not wasting vast amounts of my time documenting what is widely available. I leave filling pages with lame sounding crap to you.

                                  In terms of your new claim that arabs are not discriminated against by Israel - There is overwhelming evidence that this is not the case. See http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2012/10/23/survey-of-israeli-racism-58-of-jews-label-their-state-apartheid/

                                  Also couple of direct quotes

                                  "Israel can claim the title of most racist state in the developed world,” Israeli author Sami Michael said at the opening of an international conference of the Association for Israel Studies at an Israeli university

                                  According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government had done "little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens."

                                  The 2005 US Department of State report on Israel wrote: "there were problems in some areas, including... institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country’s Arab citizens"

                                  In December 2010, dozens of Jewish rabbis issued an edict against renting or selling real estate to non-Jews, particularly Arab citizens.

                                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                    FAIL

                                    Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                                    "Im sure you are quite capable of using Wikipedia....." But you seem unable to, which begs the question have you even bothered to ever read anything about the whole Middle East situation, or just gone on what you have been told is The Truth?

                                    ".....I leave filling pages with lame sounding crap to you....." RICHTO, every post you make in every forum is complete crap, as evidenced by the response you get from other posters.

                                    "....There is overwhelming evidence that this is not the case....." The survey you link to proves nothing of the sort, it's just an opinion piece on a survey of a small group and does not reflect the Israeli governement's views, the laws of Israel, or even the general population's opinions. Simple straight comparison - an Israeli Muslim Arab can, by law, be a citizen and vote in Israel, they can even be elected as members of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, but NO Jew can have the same rights under the laws of the PNA, Hamas, or any number of Arab governments. You are just too blinkered by hate to see those simple facts.

                                    Since you are so concerned with opinion pieces, it's my opinion that you should stop wating bandwidth and go learn something.

                                    1. RICHTO Silver badge
                                      Mushroom

                                      Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                                      You are perfectly able to use Wikipedia - go read it. There is no point in referecing links ot what is a public service.

                                      My posts on this subject are far more rational and factual than yours - i note the various personal attacks you tried - and i ignored - a clear sign of someone who knows that they lost the argument and resorts to name calling. Or maybe just immature?

                                      The survey link is factual evidence of the attitude and treatment of arabs by Israelis - the numbers presented are facts. There might be comments and opinion on them, but that bare facts of the survey are there too.

                                      What other arabs countries might do is not relelevant to the Israeli treatment of it's own citizens.

                                      That arabs can vote doesnt really help when they are are made a minority by racist laws excluding many of them from their own land of birth.

                                      I notice that you dont mention the US government comments Even a country that massively supports Israel even says they discriminate against the arabs!

                                      Israel is a terrorist state building on illegally occupied land. These are unarguable facts. There might be historical reasons for it, but it doesnt make it right.

                                      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                        FAIL

                                        Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                                        "....There is no point in referecing links ot what is a public service....." How about the point is providing some sort of factual argument so that other readers might actually think you know what you're talking about for a change? Or is it just that you checked Wikipedia and found it doesn't back your position at all?

                                        ".....My posts on this subject are far more rational and factual than yours....." Nope, yours are just opinion pieces, I post verifiable links to backup my arguments.

                                        ".....The survey link is factual evidence of the attitude and treatment of arabs by Israelis...." No, it is a limited survey of OPINIONS, it does not recount one single and verifiable example of any bad treatment of Arabs. Here's a simple example of how silly your argument is - I will conduct a survey in my household, is RICHTO a clueless cretin? Seeing as everyone else is out today the survey group is very small (the dogs declined to pratake), so the survey results come back with a 100% agreement that you are a clueless cretin! By your own "argument", you can't disagree, my survey is undeniable, so you've just talked yourself into having to accept you are a clueless cretin, regardless of any empirical facts! Care to reconsider your point?

                                        "....What other arabs countries might do is not relelevant to the Israeli treatment of it's own citizens....." It is a very valid comparison, it's just it makes massive holes in your non-argument that makes it unacceptable to you.

                                        "......That arabs can vote doesnt really help when they are are made a minority by racist laws excluding many of them from their own land of birth....." I think you'll find what made them a minority was them getting up and leaving, after they were encouraged by other Arab leaders to do so, in the hope that those Arab leaders would lead them to a great (and ethnically cleansing) victory over their Jewish neighbours. If they had just accepted the UN Partition Plan instead of invading Israel they'd actually have MORE land than the 1967 ceasfire line allows!

                                        ".....I notice that you dont mention the US government comments...." I notice you don't either, at least not in verifiable links to quotes.

                                        ".....Israel is a terrorist state building on illegally occupied land. These are unarguable facts....." Nope, that is your opinion, you have provided ZERO facts to back up that accusation. Until you do, you're just ranting and failing.

                    2. RICHTO Silver badge
                      Mushroom

                      Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                      The 'Nakba' as the Palestians would call it actually has many correlations with the Holocaust so i think it is a very appropriate and valid comparison Both were based around ethnic cleansing and genocide - by the Nazis on one hand and by the Israelis on the other.

                      And by the way - most of the Palestinian population expulsions happened before 1948 war with the Arabs had even started - or though there were some notable cases of ethnic cleansing and genocide then too. For instance the attrocities perpetrated by David Ben-Gurian and Yitzhak Rabin, the most well known of which is commonly known as the Lydda Death March.

                      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                        FAIL

                        Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                        Are you the unfortunate recipient of a brain injury, or was your "education" so lacking you actually believe the tosh you post?

                        "....The 'Nakba' as the Palestians would call it...." Oh dear, more history you missed. Which "nakba"? The original Palestinian Arab "nakba" was when the British census in 1922 forced the locals to class themselves as Palestinian Arabs rather than Southern Syrian Arabs (an Arab from what was termed the Levant, modern day Lebanon). The Arab nationalists were determined to create a "Greater Syria" stretching from the Turkish border down to Egypt, and thus agitators told the Arabs in the Palestine Mandate to try and register as Syrian Arabs in an attempt to influence the political discussion of the resurrection of the Greater Syria idea already dismissed by the European powers (France and Britain). When this nationalist dream was shattered, the Arabs declared a "nakba". When the Brits scuppered the second attempt to falsify the census in 1931 yet another "nakba" was declared. So, which "nakba" did you have in mind?

                        "..... has many correlations with the Holocaust....." Such stupidity is verging on Holocaust denial, I don't remember millions of Palestinian Arabs being herded into gas chambers or ovens, but please do supply us with your alternative version of history as I'm sure it will be incredibly inventive and childishly amusing.

                        "....by the Israelis....." The Israelis accepted the UN Partition Plan, it was the Arabs that set out to ethnically cleanse Palestine of all Jews. The Israelis even asked the Arabs to stay, and those that did as Israeli Arabs have immeasurably better lives than those that let themselves be herded into refugee camps by their uncaring Arab "brothers".

                        "..... the Lydda Death March." Wow, that wasn't at all predictable, it's not like that massively exaggerated "death march" of a few miles has been thrown out by know-nothing bigots trying to justify their anti-semitism before. Oh, unfortunately for you, it has, and has been thoroughly debunked as well. Apart from the fact the whole event happened due to the Arabs breaking the UN ceasefire in June 1948, forcing the Israelis to clear the area to protect the road to Tel-Aviv, even the worst Arab propagandists haven't been able to claim more than 350 deaths from 70,000 Arabs during that "death march" (the Transjordan authorities only reported "a handful" - maybe you want to contend they had really, really, REALLY big hands?). Maybe you would like to compare to a real death march, such as when the SS evacuated Auschwitz in January 1945, ahead of the Soviets arrival? 15,000 of the 60,000 Jews died on that march of only 35 miles. Seriously, I don't think even an idiot like you would like to pretend the Jordanians really had hands big enough to hold 15,000.

                2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                  "....The most equitable solution would be a return to within the defined borders of the Israeli part of Palestine as per 1967 of course....." Equitable to who? Those trying to destroy the one Jewish state by demographics?

                  "....and the Israeli state should have to recompense any displaced palestinians for their stolen land / property and / or give them the right of return plus compensation." Usual wiful ignorance of the LARGER number of Jewish refugees from just Mid East Arab countries that Israel took in after 1948, the Jewish homes seized in the West Bank (yeah, they built all those Jewish religious sites in the West Bank like the Tomb of Rachel nowhere near any Jews, right?), or all the property and goods stolen from those Jewish refugees that had to flee Arab lands after 1948. To call you a clueless moron without the slightest shred of historical knowledge would be a dire insult to morons everywhere.

                  1. RICHTO Silver badge
                    Mushroom

                    Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                    Whatever claims individual jews might have against other arab countries has nothing whatsoever to do with the Palestinians...

                    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                      FAIL

                      Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                      "Whatever claims individual jews might have against other arab countries has nothing whatsoever to do with the Palestinians..." So, Israel welcomes and integrates 800,000 refugees, despite having massively less land or resources, yet you think it was fine for the Arab countries to deliberately keep 600,000 Palestinian Arab refugees in camps by force? If anyone should be compensating the Fakeistinians it should be the Arab countries that have cruelly used and abused them for so many years.

                      1. RICHTO Silver badge
                        Mushroom

                        Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                        The choice of other arab countries not to accept a problem created by Israel being moved onto their doorstep is nothing to do with the Palestinians. There is also a very good reason not to do this in that it would remove a reason for Israel to have to address a settlement over the stolen land and occupied territories that it still holds.

                        I do note that Israel seems to have no problem recently importing hundreds of thousands of 'Jewish refugees' from Etiopia, Russia, etc, so im sure it could accomodate any Palestinans that wished to return.

                        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                          FAIL

                          Re: Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

                          "The choice of other arab countries not to accept a problem created by Israel....." Firstly, the problem was created by the Arabs, not Israel. All the Arabs had to do was accept the UN Partition Plan, as the Jews did, based on land already occupied by Arabs and Jews, and there would not have been one Palestinian Arab refugee. Secondly, it was in breach of international law and UN resolutions on refugees for the Arab states to refuse to help them. Glad you finally admit that it was the choice of their fellow Arabs to keep the Palestinain Arabs as refugees rather than a matter of circumstance.

                          "....There is also a very good reason not to do this in that it would remove a reason for Israel to have to address a settlement over the stolen land and occupied territories that it still holds....." Rubbish! Keeping the refugees oppressed and hopeless meant they could be used as pawns by the Arabs in their pointless war with Israel. Europe, shattered after WW2, still managed to integrate 12,000,000 refugees despite having a much higher population density and arguably less resources than the Middle Eastern Arab states, yet the Arabs preferred to keep their refugees miserable and hopeless to prove a point? Truly tragic that your biggotry should lead you to find that acceptable.

                          "......I do note that Israel seems to have no problem recently importing hundreds of thousands of 'Jewish refugees' from Etiopia, Russia, etc, so im sure it could accomodate any Palestinans that wished to return." Slight difference - those non-Palestinian immigrants want to integrate into Israel due to the opportunities the successful and technically advanced Israeli economy offers, and the rights available to all in Israel not found in any neighbouring Arab country. The Fakeistininas just want to destroy it. But, if you think Palestinian Arabs should be able to emigrate to Israel, then surely you should be calling on Abbas to honour his Oslo Accord commitments and negotiate a peaceful resolution with Israel, as called for by the UN, and then Palestinians might even be accepted as immigrants some day. After all, plenty of Israeli Arabs live with equal rights already in Israel. Of course, there would still be the racist laws in many Arab states, including Jordan and the PNA, banning Israeli immigration and ownership of land, but you probably think that's just fine.

          2. cosmodrome

            Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

            So? Then get the coitus off Rome's Britannia, northern barbarian!

      2. Smokey Joe

        Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

        "The sooner the oil runs out the better - so the USA looses interest in supporting this horrible terrorist state."

        Nope. The sooner leaders of people the world over are dragged into the street and laughed at the better. Only then will throwaway "nuke 'em" remarks cease to enter the mind of the led.

        1. Ledswinger Silver badge

          Re: "It was not immediately clear, however...

          "Only then will throwaway "nuke 'em" remarks cease to enter the mind of the led."

          Hey! I never thought that at all!

  2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Watching Hollywood movies much?

    Somehow I doubt that what the worlds is needs a bunch of leet, ideologically motivated haxxxor teens.

    Oh well.

    As for the Iron Dome, the only thing that can be said is DERP:

    Even experts who believe Iron Dome performed impressively question whether it could cope with a better-armed adversary capable of firing missiles from military launchers, not holes in the ground and cobbled-together launchers in the backs of trucks as is the case in Gaza.

    Most of the rockets fired from Gaza are crude, relatively slow and cost only a few hundred dollars. “The rockets being launched [by Hamas] are pretty substandard munitions,” said George Stejic, president of Tesla Laboratories, Inc., which has commissioned an investigation into Iron Dome’s effectiveness. “Israel has every reason to overexaggerate the efficiency of Dome, just as we did with Patriots during Desert Storm,” he said.

    Richard Lloyd, the missile-system expert conducting the investigation for Tesla, said his preliminary findings echoed Prof. Postol’s doubts. There are few demonstrable examples of incoming rockets intercepted by Iron Dome and showing the sort of telltale damage that would be obvious if they have been blasted by the spray of rod-like pellets from an Iron Dome’s warhead, he said.

    So what's the cost of this theater?

    Uri Avnery has this to say:

    The sting is that one of the Palestinian rockets costs only a few hundred shekels, while one Iron Dome missile costs 315,000 shekels. During the four days [in March 2012], 17.6 million shekels’ worth of missiles was spent by the Israeli side. This is apart from the very high price tag of the batteries themselves.

    It's good that the US is paying.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Watching Hollywood movies much?

      That's true of pretty much any defence.

      Cost of a knife to stab a teenager at a bus stop is rather less than a whole police force, forensics, courts, judges and several public inquiries - it doesn't mean that we should ignore murders

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Watching Hollywood movies much?

      Destroy All Monsters, EXACTLY the same arguments were used by those hating the new capabilities that drones brought to the IDF - "drones, too expensive, why use a $5m drone and a $50,000 missile to kill some guy toting a $50 AK47?" - right up until the Hermes drones started selling like hotcakes Worldwide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbit_Hermes_450#Operators). Iron Dome will be sold abroad as well, and make even more profitable export revenues for Israel, lowering the per-round cost of stopping Hamas's indiscriminate rocket attacks. People like you just hate seeing Israel develop and use tech as part of a modern economy whilst the Hamas and co deliberately keep their people poor, unemployed and living in slum conditions (well, except for the Hamas commanders, who live quite nicely by all accounts).

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Watching Hollywood movies much?

        > People like you

        You seem to know me quite well, Matty. Gb2 your pretend tech skills.

        > Iron Dome will be sold abroad as well

        Hahaha. To whom? Jordan?

        > Hamas and co deliberately keep their people poor

        Kinda like the guys in charge in the Ghetto deliberately kept their people poor?

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Watching Hollywood movies much?

          "...You seem to know me quite well...." Yeah, I've run into plenty of your kind, not an original thought between them, yet all so puzzled at what they were assured was The Truth turned out to be complete male bovine manure.

          "....Hahaha. To whom? Jordan?...." See, you're just showing up the limits of your knowledge. You could have started here:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome#Possible_foreign_sales_.28not_inclusive.29

          You can also add the UK (reportedly already evaluating Iron Dome and other Israeli products), the US (well, they did fund a large chunk of it), and if the rumors are to be believed, the Turkish military are quite keen but can't get it past their anti-Semitic government. Apparently it's more important to hate Israel than protect Turkish citizens from stray Syrian mortar rounds.

          ".....Kinda like the guys in charge in the Ghetto deliberately kept their people poor?" Before the Second Intifada, AKA the 2nd Infantile Tantrum, a major employer for 12,000 Gazans was the Erez industrial park set up by Israel to foster co-operative businesses on the Strip crossings. This so infuriated the Islamists that they attacked the site with rockets, suicide bombers and snipers until the Israelis closed it down. Hamas then looted and wrecked the rest of the park to prevent it re-opening. During that time the Islamists justified those Gazans killed in the attacks as "collaborators"- they just wanted a job that could put food on their tables and provide a future for their children. Even the UN admits the closing of the sites was the biggest blow to the Gazan economy, bigger even than shutting the cross-border trade to Egypt. It's effect on the Israeli economy was minor as the businesses just moved and employed Israelis instead.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26259-2004Jun8.html

  3. nuked
    Facepalm

    Can't see what could possibly go wrong with training a whole group of religiously motivated youths to conduct aggressive acts against other countries.

    1. Magani
      Mushroom

      One should point out to Netanyahu...

      ... that he shouldn't confuse testosterone and faith with intelligence and restraint.

      Icon represents possible end product.

    2. amehaye

      Actually the Israeli youths are mostly secular. It is the Palestinians who are mostly religious fanatics. Please get your facts straight.

      1. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Israeli religious fanatics = 4 million hits on Google.

        Palestinian religious fanatics = 1.2 million hits on Google.

        QED.

        1. Alfred

          Proof by google hit

          Invisible pink unicorn - About 295,000 results

          Table with wobbly leg wedged up with a bit of cardboard - About 214,000 results

          Therefore there are MORE Invisible Pink Unicorns in the world that tables with wobbly legs wedged up with a bit of cardboard.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. RICHTO Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Proof by google hit

            You are so right; I should have qualified the search in quotes to filter irrelevant results. Here you go:

            "israeli religious fanatics" - 58,000 hits.

            "palestinian religious fanatics" - 4,000 hits

        2. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          You call that research?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Israel is a mostly secular country these days.

      1. nuked

        "Israel is a mostly secular country these days."

        Yeah, shame the rest are in power.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It'll never work

    Israel taps teens to become 'interceptors' in cyberwarfare ..

    No self respecting teen is going to go around with one of those big damn missiles stuck to their nose ..

    Goodbye and God speed Gerry. You introduced a young impressionable lad to boots and miniskirts, making the world a much brighter place

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dunno.

    It can't be bad If Israel, with its 7 million citizens, trains its qualified 16 to 18 year olds to be cyber cadets.

    OTOH, what if China, with its billion three hundred million, trains its qualified 16 to 18 year olds for the same work?

    Hard to say.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dunno.

      Never mind the Chinese who probably couldn't give a hoot about Israel, what about the Arabs? There's around 400m, over half under 25. Some fag packet estimating suggests that Arab 16-18 year olds outnumber the entire state of Israel by two to one.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Re: Dunno.

        ".....There's around 400m, over half under 25....." You forgot the appalling levels of computer illiteracy in Arab countries, even the ones drowning in oil revenues. I have worked in many Arab countries and often noted that the ratio of locals to foreigners actually doing work is rediculous, to the point where a project I ran in Riyadh had one Saudi "executive" (nephew of a Prince, parachuted in, wore fancy Italian suits on his once-a-quarter trips into the office and never touched a PC the whole time I was there), the rest of the staff, even down to the cleaners and security guards, were all foreigners. Islam has become become the economic bedfellow of underdevelopment, especially in the Arab countries. Even with its much smaller population, Israel can probably field a larger "cyberwarfare" force in short time than the Arabs could in ten years.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

          "You forgot the appalling levels of computer illiteracy in Arab countries"

          I didn't forget it at all. I ignored it partly because the point I was making is not about today, it is about tomorrow, partly because you overstate the case. Certainly the freedom to use the internet is questionable in many Arab countries, but as one example, internet penetration and number of facebook accounts (as a proxy) put the UAE alone on a very close par with Israel: Populations of around 8m, internet connection for 5.5m, and around 3.5m Facebook accounts. In Saudi only half the population have internet access, but that still means there are more Saudis with internet access than the entire population of Israel. Iraq, Syria and Yemen are too busy fighting themeslves to count for anything; Iran's internet use numbers look made up, but taking the remaining Arabic Middle East, and ignoring the Maghreb, it looks like there's around 80 million Arabs with internet access, and that number is growing at around 10% a year.

          I'm sure you're right about the Saudis as they are now, But again, if you're as active in the region as you claim, then look at the huge amount of effort going in to industrialising the Arab world - technology parks, factories, transport hubs, new universities, etc. And even the remaining despotic countries are doing this, because the rulers know that if they don't provide jobs, bread and circuses, then it will be their heads on pikes as the underemployed youth find causes to rebel for.

          So today, Israel's cyber-security, like its conventional weapons will outmatch its neighbours. But the demographics and economic growth trends are working against it, and it seems a pity that as a nation it won't see this, and work more progressively towards an accomodation with its neighbours and its current enemies. I've no doubt you'll claim it has tried, but I'd simply comment that it hasn't tried very hard from where I'm looking, and it is Israel that has most to gain from a lasting, generous peace.

          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

            ".....Facebook accounts....." Oh dear. Your equating ownership of Faecesbook accounts with computer literacy simply shows that you belong to the computer illiterate grouping.

            Ignoring the fact that many such accounts in the UAE and Saudi will be ex-pats and other foreigners, it is a big jump from gormless social network luser to hacker, unless you want LOIC fodder. The latter can be easily outperformed (and controlled) by robots and zombies. I suspect that if Saudi Arabia did try and convert their many Faecesbook lusers into cyberjihadis, the first thing that would happen would be the majority of their lusers would find their systems had become zombies due to the technically more adept Israelis.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

              "Your equating ownership of Faecesbook accounts with computer literacy"

              Do grow up, you twerp. I haven't suggested that Fracebook equates to computer literacy, merely that it is a good proxy for validating numbers of active internet users. Iran is a good example of why I used this as a proxy, because technically there may be Iran's claimed 50% internet penetration, but the lack of active Facebook users shows that they don't have any freedom to do anything.

              Moreover, whilst you're being a loudmouthed, judgemental c***, and suggesting that Facebook is a negative indicator of IT skills, the data shows that Israel is on a par with the UAE. So you're declaring that all the Israeli's on Facebook know nothing about technology? Or is it the usual Matt Bryant "one logic for Israel, one logic for anybody else"?

              Even if we foolishly go along with your wild generalisation that Facebook implies no IT skills, you've failed to address the point that there a lot more Arabs than Israelis. In fact there's almost as many Saudi's with internet access and without Facebook accounts as the entire population as Israel.

              1. mhenriday
                Pint

                Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

                Anonymous Coward, you must realise that dear Mr Bryant is our recognised authority on everything - from Julian Assange (whose very name, for some reason, seems to wreck havoc with Mr Bryant's keyboard skills) to the IT abilities of Arab youth (on which his expertise is demonstrated because, he tells us, that he has seen that Saudis use «foreigners» to do the real work - quel surprise ! - without, of course, mentioning the provenance of these «foreigners» ; mayhap some were from other Arab countries ?). So do take care when referring to this expert as a «twerp» ; perhaps a still more appropriate formulation would result from shortening yours by one letter, while retaining the initial two....

                Henri

                1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

                  And still adding nothing of value to the argument, Henri, just bitterness and bile.

                  "......mayhap some were from other Arab countries ?....." Hilariously, the Saudis are MORE paranoid about having contractors from other Mid East countries than Europe or the US! When you work there you often get given a list of nations' whose contractors are not acceptable - Israel is always top, but second is usually Palestine, followed by Iran and Syria, Jordan is also often on the list, as is Egypt. BTW, ever wonder why there are no "Palestinian refugee" camps in Saudi Arabia, despite it having a border with the old Mandate territory? It's because the Saudis refused to let any Palestinians refugees enter in 1948, their soldiers turned them back if they caught them at the border. Saudis simply refuse to admit any Palestinian refugees exist inside Saudi, making it impossible for them to work, gain an education, or just about any other service in Saudi Arabia.

              2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

                ".... Ihaven't suggested that Fracebook equates to computer literacy..." Yes you did, you tried to claim that the Arabs could launch a massive cyber attack and then tried to justify it by using Facesbook accounts - tragic fail!

                "........merely that it is a good proxy for validating numbers of active internet users....." Again, only if you are clueless. Ignoring the vast number of duplicate accounts for a start, you also seem to have this laughable belief that you can take all those disparate lusers and weld them into one coherent force - have you even read anything about Mid East history? Like a proper history book, maybe, rather than some dross of Faecesbook? Even getting the Saudis as one nation to work cohesively is a challenge, as shown by the popularity of AQ. Take a look at the current ferment in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, all bickering and arguing internally as to which clan leader gets to be the next dictator. You really think you can weld them together into a coherent force? Get a clue. The ones with real tech knowledge are actually largely the Arabs OPPOSING the new Arab "governments" as they are sick and tired of exactly the dogmatic dictatorship ideals that led to the slavish hatred of Israel, and because they would rather develop proper economies rather than try rolling back to the seventh century.

                Just as one example of your hopeless cause, Egypt and Libya, two of the more advanced Arab nations, once signed a treaty wherebye they agreed to unify their forces to attack Israel. The Libyan forces promptly rolled eastwards into Egypt, only to be attacked by the Egyptians as they were paranoid that Libya was trying to annex Egypt! The Libyans returned fire, convinced that the Egypts had lured them into a trap so Egypt could invade Libya! The entire farce broke down with both sides blaming the other, having nearly gone to full-blown war, and completely failing to co-operate militarily ever again, much to the Israelis' amusement.

                "....Moreover, whilst you're being a loudmouthed, judgemental c***...." Aw, would you like some cheese with that whine? I'm betting anyone that points out the gaping holes in what you have been told is The Truth would be similarly labelled, even if they did it it sensitively and didn't point out your obvious stupidity. Do you seriously think I put an iota of respect in someone that would seriously suggest the number of Faecesbook lusers somehow indicates a level of IT skill? All you provide is comedy.

                "......you've failed to address the point that there a lot more Arabs than Israelis......" You've failed to realize that just being "Arabs" does not mean they can be made to act or even think alike. Indeed, just in the period of Israel's existence, far more Arabs have been killed fighting each other than have died in wars with Israel. Your touchingly stupid naïveté needs a good dose of education, then you might start living in reality.

          2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Re: Dunno.@Matt Bryant

            Oops! Also forgot to mention that having even millions of Faecesbook luser LOIC fodder isn't much good when your infrastructure is COMPLETELY reliant on foreign workers. Having seen even the latest efforts of the Saudis to control their telecoms infrastructure, I can assure you it would be crippled by just half-a-dozen foreigners packing their bags and leaving. I can just about guarantee the Israelis have plenty of info on their neighbors telecoms set-ups, and contingency plans for disabling them. Remember how upset Hezbollah got when they realized the IDF had pwned the Lebanese mobile networks? http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hs6gJdJc5VXRqrq5IxrzMpXPvCkA?docId=CNG.70ca6ac7dd6df319b0e596db94d300bd.6a1

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Dunno.

        "Chinese who probably couldn't give a hoot about Israel" Dunno. Check ot Der Spiegel.

        06/03/2012

        Secret Cooperation

        Israel Deploys Nuclear Weapons on German-Built Submarines

        The Dolphin class submarines are built for Israel in a shipyard in Kiel (March 2012 photo).

        A German shipyard has already built three submarines for Israel, and three more are planned. Now SPIEGEL has learned that Israel is arming the submarines with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. The German government has known about Israel's nuclear weapons program for decades, despite its official denials.

        Germany is helping Israel to develop its military nuclear capabilities, SPIEGEL has learned. According to extensive research carried out by the magazine, Israel is equipping submarines that were built in the northern German city of Kiel and largely paid for by the German government with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. The missiles can be launched using a previously secret hydraulic ejection system. Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak told SPIEGEL that Germans should be "proud" that they have secured the existence of the state of Israel "for many years."

        http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/israel-deploys-nuclear-weapons-on-german-submarines-a-836671.html

        If you can believe Der Spegel -- and if it supports our argument, you do. if it doesn't, you don't -- Israel has three German submarines (and soon will have six) that can sail into the Gulf of Finland, 50 miles from St. Petersburg or into the northern East China Sea and there unload its nuclear cargo ad lib.

        I'd say the Chinese (and the Russian) do give a hoot about Israel and if they haven't enrolled their 250,000,000 16 to 18 year olds in Hacking 101 yet, it's 'cause they're still working on the syllabus.

        Apparently the Germans enjoy a nice glass of das kool-aid same as you and me.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dunno.@AC 3 Jan 18:13

          "I'd say the Chinese (and the Russian) do give a hoot about Israel "

          Tangentially yes, but in the grand scheme of things I'd still say no. I'd take your comments about German/Israeli weapons trading and Israel's nuke capabilities as correct, but who are China worrying about? People who they compete with for resources or power. They might want to snoop some Israeli technologies, as they do the UK or the Frogs but do they really feel threatened by these tiddly nations with a few modest nukes, whether ballistic or not? I doubt it. China's worry list will start with the US, followed by Russia and India. Then there's unstable nuke threat nations, Pakistan, Iran, North Korea. Next up are natural resource providers critical to China's growth, so Brazil, Australia, Indonesia etc. Who comes after that? Trading partners or technological competitors like Germany, S. Korea, Thailand, Taiwan (though the domestic pantomime elevates Taiwan several notches). After that, major countries whose growth and programs impact China, say Mexico, Bangladesh, Philippines etc.

          In context, I can't see that China or Russia would see Israel as a threat. Regionally it is the 51st state, and that's not to be overlooked, but neither have territorial ambitions or useful allies in the Middle East. The "threat" to China or Russia's security is minimal (some reciprocal spying and political nuisance), and the response to a hypothetical intrusion of an Israeli submarine within striking distance would get a similar response to any other unknown submarine - simply a bit of ongoing cold war theatre along the lines of "oops, my trawler just snagged an underwater obstacle".

  6. Crisp Silver badge
    Flame

    Israel still has conscription

    A lot of those Israeli kids aren't going to get a choice.

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Israel still has conscription

      "Israel still has conscription. A lot of those Israeli kids aren't going to get a choice." Ironically, the only ones exempt are the most religious ones, the Yeshiva students, which would be the "fanatics" that the know-nothing posters are frothing about.

      1. Local G
        Trollface

        Re: Israel still has conscription

        "11 September 2012

        Israel's ultra-Orthodox fight to be exempt from military service

        By Linda Pressly

        BBC Radio 4, Crossing Continents

        A move to end the exemption from compulsory military service for ultra-Orthodox men who are religious students reveals a fault-line among Israeli Jews."

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19492627

        Take a look at the photo of an ultra-Orthodox Israeli soldier. He'd scare the pants off Attila.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Re: Israel still has conscription

          ".....Take a look at the photo of an ultra-Orthodox Israeli soldier. He'd scare the pants off Attila." Going on the history of the IDF's successes against their enemies, I'd suggest he would definitely scare the pants off plenty of Arabs.

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  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Matt Bryant is fucking clown shoes.

      "....I've managed to take offline a number of Jewish websites, using a distributed attack via TOR exit nodes. Never any Muslim ones though. Funny that....." Gee, and I bet you felt really clever, using downloaded scripts and TOR to blast a network range probably chosen for it being an Israeli one. Are you trying to give the authorities a reason to close down TOR nodes? Gosh, what an intellectual you are - not. I'm sure your brave actions in probably temporarily restricting web acces to a number of mom-and-pop Israeli websites really brought immense comfort and succour to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip - oh, wait, no it didn't because they probably didn't hear about your "great victory", in truth it made fudge all difference, they were probably too busy trying to survive the latest suicidal "victories" of their Hamas leaders. Your pretense that you are making a difference is hilarious self-delusion of the highest order of naïveté. But if it keeps you off the streets it's probably a bonus for the rest of us. Here's laughing at you, kid.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Matt Bryant is fucking clown shoes.

      What a waste of TOR bandwidth.

      I'm all for attacking sites that support terrorist states like Israel, but please use a method that doesnt piss off the rest of us...

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