back to article Won't follow Apple Store rules? How 'bout an iTASER TREAT!

Police in New Hampshire have defended the tasering of a 44-year-old woman by one of its officers after she refused to leave a local Apple Store. Xiaojie Li, a Chinese national who doesn't speak English, had bought two iPhones in the Pheasant Lane Mall last Friday, and tried to buy more but was refused due to Apple's two- …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    > "The iPhone 5 is not on the market in China yet," he said.

    > That market is expanding rapidly in China, the world's fastest growing mobile market,...

    Now, for any other company, that would be a big warning sign right there.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "The iPhone 5 is not on the market in China yet,"

      it is now.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yep, they just needed to wait another day.

        The weird part, if all these people are waiting for it and have money to buy one, home come the reception has been lukewarm?

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/14/apple_china_iphone_5/

        "The iPhone 5 has finally launched in China, but reaction has been lukewarm."

        It is cheaper to buy them in the US, but does deflate the that it isn't available and people really want to buy it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Personally I think everyone who buys an iDevice needs tasering as a form of aversion therapy and to put some common sense into their heads.

      1. RAMChYLD
        Boffin

        "Personally I think /any developer/ who /develops specifically for/ an iDevice needs tasering as a form of aversion therapy and to put some common sense into their heads."

        there, fixed that for you. The only reason I'm saddled with an iDevice is because of one developer who refuses to develop apps for anything else other than an iDevice.

  2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    > Apple is taking an increasingly hard line against bulk purchasers in an effort to keep a lid on the grey market for hardware.

    I thought they actually wanted to sell their stuff?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Try it in any phone shop. If you're buying a PAYG or SIM free they won't like you buying up all of the stock, they like to connect people on contracts more since they get some commission or fees for connection.

      1. Rampant Spaniel

        Very true, due to subsidies offered on payg phones part of the store and staffs comission is based on the percentage of phones that register and are used over a period of time and 'boxers' who just come and buy several phones at once over and over again with no intent to use them on network cost the network / store / salesperson money and therefore they try and catch them. Yes selling more iphones is what apple (and their stores and sales ppl) wants but in reality they want them on net and making more money for them especially if supplies are limited. I'm not passing comment on it being good or bad, just why I believe they have that policy.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Thanks, that makes sense.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          That is the case with locked phones - i.e. they are often subsidies so it's not in their interest for you to buy loads. With Apple the phone is SIM free so limiting the number you can buy is to try and help ensure as many people who want them can get them.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            FAIL

            Please try to spot the obvious flaw in your reasoning there.

            Now try suggesting that they go about it by making more.

            Or is Apple the next deBeers? Inflating prices by creating scarcity?

    2. Johan Bastiaansen
      Happy

      I thought they actually wanted to sell their stuff?

      You would be surprised.

    3. Psyx
      Stop

      "I thought they actually wanted to sell their stuff?"

      I'm going to actually stick up for Apple on this one. Shock, horror!

      They want to sell their stuff to local customers, rather than grey-market profiteers. It's a common 'problem' in Apple stores for people to walk in and blatantly try to buy in order to sell onto the grey market (particularly India and China). Apple don't want this happening, and quite rightly so. (I guess they feel that one over-priced mark-up on their goods is quite enough, or something...)

      Let's make a comparison to gig tickets: Venues are often quite happy to flog a dozen tickets at a time within seconds of release to people who will peddle them on Ebay for twice the price. It's bad for the 'intended' punters and creates bad feeling amongst the customer base. Customers would be happier if better measures were in place to prevent it.

  3. Cheshire Cat
    Facepalm

    Xiaojie?

    Her name is 'Xiaojie Li'? This is 'Miss Li' in Chinese ('xiao jie' is 'young female'), not her actual name.

    1. LaeMing Silver badge

      Re: Xiaojie?

      May be an in-family name, though. Informal names like 'Little Sister/Brother' are in very common usage, often used more than the person's formal name in anything but formal settings.

    2. Law

      Re: Xiaojie?

      I know a couple of people who go by the name Xiaojie in our chinese offices.

  4. Esskay
    Devil

    Frankly, my dear...

    Whilst I think the idea of non-lethal weapons is a good one, the problem is training - surely the issue here is that the guy went over the top - using a taser to shut a woman up because she's hysterical and a bit difficult to get handcuffs on sounds like a 1950's solution...

    Then again, maybe he was another Jobs cultist in disguise? Protecting the hive and all that...

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: Frankly, my dear...

      Whilst I think the idea of non-lethal weapons is a good one

      Actually it isn't (IMHO). A taser is the equivalent of a whip. It hurst like hell and your muscles won't work for a while, but because it leaves no marks it encourages abuse. Law enforcement using tasers on anyone but people about to go violent is in my opinion the equivalent of a wife beater who never hits the face because that would be visible.

      If an officer is incapable of restraining a slim and fragile individual without such excessive use of punishment (let's call it by its proper name) than that officer should be retrained or taken off any duties that involve interacting with public.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Re: Frankly, my dear...

        It's always difficult if not impossible to judge such a case with the little information provided. But the question I'd like to be answered is whether officer Murphy would have shot her with a gun in the absence of a taser. That's, in my opinion, the only justified use of a taser: when the siuation is that bad that gun use is justified but can also (and better) be handled with with leathal force.

        I guess, this hysterical iPhone punter didn't qualify to be shot.

        1. JetSetJim Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Frankly, my dear...

          >After five minutes of struggling, Murphy eventually used the taser

          Well, normally Officer Murphy would've led with "Drop it! Dead or alive, you are coming with me."

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Frankly, my dear...

        The problem with this discussion is that tasers are LETHAL often enough that I don't know if they should be considered a non-lethal weapon.

        The cases when people die from being tasered are covered up (or at least obscured) by taser manufacturers, who obviously want to encourage use of their product, and the police, who want to shirk blame and continue using their electronic toys.

        But the fact is that it's hard to predict how any given human body will respond to a taser shock. Somebody might have a minor congenital heart defect or an unusual nervous system and be perfectly healthy but die if they are tasered. A number of people have simply died for no reason that anybody can determine.

        These weapons should really be carefully regulated and used only as last line of defense before using firearms.

        1. Psyx
          FAIL

          Re: Frankly, my dear...

          "The problem with this discussion is that tasers are LETHAL often enough that I don't know if they should be considered a non-lethal weapon."

          Citation?

          Well over 10,000 uses in the UK with no reported deaths.

          Try subduing 10,000 possibly violent, possibly drunk people with a wooden stick and see how dangerous it is, comparatively.

          1. JetSetJim Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Frankly, my dear...

            > Well over 10,000 uses in the UK with no reported deaths.

            Citation?

            How about 3 people in one 8 day period in 2011 (or at least 2 as one of them seems to have died due to a pepper spraying):

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/24/taser-deaths-investigated-police-watchdog

            Amnesty International reckon at least 500 people have died in the US due to tasering (although the US Justice Dept *only* admits to 184):

            http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/usa-stricter-limits-urged-deaths-following-police-taser-use-reach-500-2012-02-15

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13326185/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/justice-department-review-taser-deaths/

            Here's a Brazilian student tasered to death:

            http://uk.news.yahoo.com/taser-death-police-branded-thuggish-131838264.html

            There was a bloke in Vancouver airport who was killed this way, too:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident

            As reported in this fine journalistic establishment, there is approximately a 1 in 870 chance of dying when tasered (although this figure is probably out of date now).

            http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/13/the_odd_body_taser_stungun/

            Personally, I agree that the taser offers a higher survival rate than a bullet to the torso and so is a good thing in that respect, but it should be used appropriately and not willy-nilly.

            1. Psyx
              Stop

              Re: Frankly, my dear...

              "How about 3 people in one 8 day period in 2011"

              Erm... No. One of those STABBED himself to death, one was pepper-spray and one was pepper-sprayed AND tasered, meaning it could be either. So that's...half a case, not three.

              "As reported in this fine journalistic establishment, there is approximately a 1 in 870 chance of dying when tasered"

              Not in this country, by our own police statistics. As the article states: "But Dr Bozeman acknowledges that any such estimate is based on very little data". Luckily, we have better data in this country which makes the claim look highly sensationalist. It holds no real water.

              "I agree that the taser offers a higher survival rate than a bullet to the torso and so is a good thing in that respect, but it should be used appropriately and not willy-nilly."

              Or indeed a baton to the skull. I don't think anyone is claiming that they should be used with much less in the way of willingness to an actual firearm, and only in circumstances where people are in actual *danger*, rather than being inconvenient or non-compliant. That seems to have been what happened in this case: The cop resorted to a taser simply because it made his job easier, rather than because of risk to the public or himself.

              1. JetSetJim Silver badge

                Re: Psyx

                Yeah, fine, so my UK references weren't the best - although in Dale Burn's case where he was on the receiving end of both pepper spray and a taser it seems more likely that the taser is what did him in (pepper spray seems to be less lethal than a taser), but that doesn't mean that the 184/500 in the US are not valid death-by-taserings, or the one in Vancouver airport which was recorded and duly posted to Youtube.

                I was just pointing out that you have called someone out for not having citations for their "fact" and you then state your version of the "fact" with no citations. There are plenty of hits on the web for "taser death" but nothing saying they're "safe" apart from manufacturer gumf. Tasers *can and do* cause death, whether deliberately or accidentally, but they are a tricky thing to use as some folks can die, and some folks (possibly hopped up on drugs) can seemingly shrug them off (there was a vid going round of some knife-wielding, drug-addled chap getting zapped a few times before getting shot in what was probably a good example of it being used properly).

                On the other stuff I agree with you - application of force only if justified for safety and other reasons.

                1. Psyx

                  Re: Psyx

                  "Yeah, fine, so my UK references weren't the best"

                  Dude: They were awful, in retrospect!

                  "but that doesn't mean that the 184/500 in the US are not valid death-by-taserings"

                  It seems to if they are deployed and used differently here, from our policing perspective. We're seeing nothing like the taser death rate in other countries which shows they are being utilised with more care and that their use is closely recorded, which shows that they are *less* lethal in practice here. I don't see the statistics as particularly valid until they start to even come close to corroborating with use here, especially as their use doesn't seem to even be recorded in many countries.

                  "I was just pointing out that you have called someone out for not having citations for their "fact" and you then state your version of the "fact" with no citations."

                  I was *asking* for citation, hence the question mark. If you'd asked for mine I could have told you that I looked up the official 2010 figures, which recorded over 8,000 uses by 'level' in the UK, of which about 2,500 resulted in the device being discharged. So it's pretty darned safe to say that we've 10,000 uses by now given the increased deployment. A quick cross-index check for taser deaths in the UK found none 100% attributed to date: The closest being the *potential* taser-related one you cited as one of the three. Another quick search points out that he was also a steroid user, interestingly.

                  They aren't 100% safe, but what method of restraining someone who poses a threat to himself or others is? I think that I might rather be tasered than rugby-tackled face-first into a brick wall by a sturdy officer! As long as they are used carefully, appropriately, and every use is audited and examined, then I see them as another tool for the police and a welcome alternative to firearms.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Frankly, my dear...

      Take off and nuke the site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure

    3. LateNightLarry
      FAIL

      Re: Frankly, my dear...

      Did anyone else notice that the article said she didn't speak English? So here's a big bad cop who apparently doesn't speak a Chinese dialect trying to make a person who doesn't speak English understand that she can't buy the iPhones she wants, and has been told to leave the store, but she CANNOT understand him. Did ANYONE in that store speak Chinese, at least enough to explain that she has to leave... He can't make her understand, so he resorts to his trusty taser and has her on the ground screaming instead... but his boss says he used reasonable means... more like police over-reaction...

  5. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    grey market/tasers

    Is there really an iphone grey market expanding in China? The other article said how the iphone5 is not really selling in China (probably since there's numerous better phones on the market, and for those who DO want an iphone there's like a dozen iphone clones that are much cheaper and generally have more features than an iphone.)

    "Whilst I think the idea of non-lethal weapons is a good one, the problem is training - surely the issue here is that the guy went over the top - using a taser to shut a woman up because she's hysterical and a bit difficult to get handcuffs on sounds like a 1950's solution..."

    He spent 10 minutes trying to get her to leave, another 5 (with backup!) trying to get cuffs on. That's not "a bit" difficult. Tasers ARE abused in the US but I don't think so in this case.

    1. Don Jefe
      Joke

      Re: grey market/tasers

      I agree, using a taser is a bit over the top. According to Sean Connery the best way to deal with an hysterical woman is to just smack her or hit her with a truncheon.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        Re: grey market/tasers

        A Bit over the top???

        What, like Hermann Goering was "a bit dodgy" to quote Kryten...

        The Taser is a lethal weapon to some people, despite its misnomer as a "non lethal" weapon.

        Plod are being trained to use the Taser in WAY to many situations in which a clip-round-t'-ear or a stern talking to followed by a stern escorting off the premises would be MORE than suffiecient.

        I know there are difficult people out there, hell i encounter at least a couple a week (bloody public) but simply electrocuting them is like us being back in the fucking dark ages.....

        And police the world-over wonder why respect for them is dropping....

        1. Tom 38 Silver badge

          Re: grey market/tasers

          "Chasing someone" could be lethal to some people, should the police not chase people either?

          At some point, the police need to stop thinking about how this will affect the perpetrator, and instead think about how to quickly resolve a situation for the benefit of everyone else.

          He clearly felt his options were:

          a) Shoot her with a tazer

          b) Pepper spray

          c) Shoot her

          Ideally, he should have called for back up and waited, or been a bit more manly and cuffed a 8 stone woman. Perhaps there was no backup available, perhaps he felt that physically restraining her until backup arrived would be more harmful than the tazer.

          1. Aldous
            Meh

            Re: grey market/tasers

            d) find someone on the police force/first responders (even on the phone) to speak to her in mandarin explain the situation and issue the "and if not the officer will tase you" warning before tasing the women. Then they have been forewarned and understand its escalating

            she was causing a nuisance but was not a risk to herself or any other person. Spending 10 minutes on a ring round through the department phone book (or even to your nearest Chinese owned restaurant or supermarket) could of prevented the need for force

            1. JetSetJim Silver badge
              Thumb Up

              Re: grey market/tasers option (d)

              Perchance the store "WOK USA" that is on the same level in the mall might have some staff that could help (although that's possibly stereotyping in assuming that folks of Chinese origin would be more likely to work there - but this guy(Facebook) seems to - perhaps he speaks the language)?

    2. gkroog
      FAIL

      Re: grey market/tasers

      Really? And what about the 61 year old BLIND man who was tasered because the BRITISH police thought his cane was a "samurai sword"? Of course, the Americans are just as bad, tazering a home-owner for trying to put out a fire in his neighbour's house before it spreads to his. They ordered him not to, telling him that's what insurance is for. What was the problem? Did this cop sell insurance too? Or is one of his family/friends in the fire department?

      The police in Britain and America seem tazer-happy. Why didn't he call for help to remove her? Just pick her up and carry her out. That's how they get uncompliant motorists out of their cars.

      1. Psyx
        Facepalm

        Re: grey market/tasers

        "Really? And what about the 61 year old BLIND man who was tasered because the BRITISH police thought his cane was a "samurai sword"?"

        We think that's shit, too. FYI.

        Just because excessive force was used in our country as well, we don't think it's fine.

        "Why didn't he call for help to remove her? Just pick her up and carry her out."

        I imagine people were too busy filming it on their phones to get involved, and the Apple Geniuses were probably of the opinion that their job was to only repair heavily scratched faces, rather than suffering them.

        As to taser-happy: According to UK figures, tasers are only used actively about 25% of the times that they are drawn, which shows that they have a powerful 'calming' or intimidating effect and that the police aren't *completely* stun-happy. If the police were keen to discharge them, they percentage would probably be higher, as if you have the excuse to aim up on someone a gung-ho officer would be of the mind-set that he 'might as well' fire it.

    3. Psyx
      Facepalm

      Re: grey market/tasers

      "Is there really an iphone grey market expanding in China? ....there's like a dozen iphone clones that are much cheaper"

      Yes, there is.

      The point is that people don't WANT a cheap clone, because the product is a prestige one; especially before official release.

      You wouldn't want a fake Ferrari if you could afford a real one, would you?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One question though, if she is crying...where are the tears?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Li refused, and began taking video and pictures of other customers who she felt were also breaking the two-phone rule"

    She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face.

    1. g e
      Trollface

      AC

      To protect the Apple Hive from his/her shameful values

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Ahh yes

      the cry of the closet woman beater/bully/sufferer of LMS...

      You're a twat mate.....

      Cowardly for saying it and cowardly for not having the balls to show yourself....

  8. Arctic fox
    Thumb Down

    "She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face"

    Funny thing you know but upon reading your comment I suddenly experienced a powerful urge to treat you to 50,000 volts for some reason - can't think why.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face"

      You try photographing me Foxy boy and you'll see the shock you get.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face"

        Yes, but that's simply because of your poor hygiene :)

      2. Arctic fox
        Trollface

        @AC 00.35 GMT RE "Foxy boy"

        If it's "!foxy boys" you are after I suggest you visit your local all male bathhouse - something tells me that you are definitely not my type.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Meh

        Basic question for Anonymous Puncher.

        Which of the following is illegal?

        a) punching someone in the face.

        b) photographing someone.

        Suggest you make sure you have the right answer before leaving the house.

        1. Tom 38 Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: Basic question for Anonymous Puncher.

          Punching someone in the face is not necessarily illegal. If you are 'engaging in discourse' with someone, and they use 'fighting words', then it is entirely fine to lay them out. Fighting words are not 'come on then, have a pop', but 'words used specifically to incite hatred from their target'.

          In other words, the defence is 'Yes, I punched him, but he forced me to do it by saying XYZ'. Police are expected to not respond violently to fighting words btw.

          Similarly, it can be illegal to photograph someone.

          So not as clear cut as you put it.

    2. David Glasgow
      Flame

      Re: "She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face"

      Ever thought of a career in uniform? I really sense you have a vocation.

    3. Johan Bastiaansen
      Devil

      Re: "She was lucky to be tasered, I'd have punched her in the face"

      And I would pretend it was totally justified.

    4. Fatman Silver badge

      Re: ...treat you to 50,000 volts...

      May I suggest as for a location to "taze" - his nuts.

      In fact, I feel that is how cops who use excessive force should be disciplined.

      Repeated shocks to the nuts. Multiple times daily for at least a month. You have to make an example of someone.

  9. JaitcH
    FAIL

    Routine US Police Occurrence

    Tasers are used commonly and just as commonly the management idiots, who weren't at the scene, say it's justifiable.

    She should have saved her time; at yesterdays opening of one Apple store shown on Chinese TV there were more Applettes than customers.

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: Routine US Police Occurrence

      As I posted above, we need to change the view people and law enforcement have of tasers. Anyone who uses tasers regularly should be given a whip instead, because that's the non-battery using equivalent, only that one leaves marks. But that would at least make abuse easier to classify. Those things are used FAR too often, and they are not non-harmful, only (usually) non-lethal.

      1. Agarax
        Thumb Up

        Re: Routine US Police Occurrence

        @Fred Flintstone

        Normally I'd say you are being a bit melodramatic, but you actually (accidentally, probably) hit on a valid delineation that's used for police weapons.

        Currently tasers are considered less-than-lethal (in the same category as tear gas, pepper spray, pressure points). Basically if someone is being a twat, an officer is allowed to use these items to subdue a suspect.

        The next step up from that (before just shooting someone) is intermediate weapons. This usually means a baton. A baton in the hands of someone who is calm and knows what to do can subdue someone with nothing to show except painful bruises the next day. In the hands of someone who is panicking/doesn't know what they are doing, it can kill someone.

        Tasers should be moved in to this category. They should ONLY be used if it is the only option besides shooting someone.

        1. ShadowedOne
          Flame

          Re: Routine US Police Occurrence

          If I remember correctly, that's how taser use was initially sold to the public. As an alternative to lethal force, to be used only when lethal force was justified. Now however they are used as a matter of convenience, and too many people, who haven't the faintest idea of what it feels like, cheer it on. Based solely on the twisted notion that someone who is loud and disruptive or simply disobeys an order from a police officer somehow deserves to be tortured with excruciating pain.

          Personally I have no issue with tasers being used to subdue dangerous criminals in situations where lethal force would be justified. I do have an issue with sadistic torturers using tasers as a matter of convenience and/or expediency.

        2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
          Black Helicopters

          Re: Routine US Police Occurrence

          Normally I'd say you are being a bit melodramatic, but you actually (accidentally, probably) hit on a valid delineation that's used for police weapons.

          Nope, not by accident. Thanks for the characterisation - I love it when I've managed to lead someone to the wrong assumptions :).

          To summarise my opinion:

          (1) good idea to add a stage before the use of lethal force

          (2) bad idea to sell it as harmless. "Non-lethal", yes, but FAR too easy to abuse. Hence me deliberately calling it a whip - that carries enough emotional baggage to make people realise the difference between use and abuse. So, the naming is deliberately melodramatic..

        3. Colin Wilson 2

          Separated by a common language...

          A baton??

          Ok - you use your bread stick. I'll use a truncheon!

  10. MondoMan
    FAIL

    Outside their jurisdiction?

    As any (sales tax free shopping) ful kno, Nashua and its wealth of malls and outlet stores are in the state of New Hampshire, not in Taxachusetts. Of course, politicians in Mass. have delusions of grandeur, so maybe they did really think Nashua was a part of their state. My bet is that they were just pulling one over on Iain Thomson.

  11. Kit-Fox

    You know i'm shocked that more people arent concern with the fact that police officers are working security at pirvate companies& that police authorities are getting paid to let their officers do this.

    Does this not reducxe the number of police available on patrol & for attending other crimes?

    Cannot apple afford to employ their own 'mall security guards' for their shops?

    If I was US voter I'd be demanding answers about why publically paid for police officers are getting sold out to the highest private company bidder and been taken away from their purpose of protecting all the public & society, not just those that use apple (or other private company) stores

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I don't actually understand what that bit meant.

      Did it mean that there have been x call outs, and they also pay $50 for security by the hour (to a security company)

      Did it mean that there have been x call outs and the police charge a surcharge of $50 an hour (rounded up) each time they have to turn up to the store/

      Did it mean that Apple have purchased some kind of contract from the police that costs $50 an hour and gives apple preferential treatment over the rest of society?

      Inquiring minds want to know.

      1. MondoMan
        Big Brother

        Private eyes...

        In many jurisdictions, the police department allows its officers to work private security jobs while they are off-duty (hence, no change in "normal" police coverage). The companies hiring these officers have to pay more than they would to non-sworn security guards, but the officers have more legal powers than do ordinary private security guards.

      2. James O'Shea Silver badge

        Apple pays for rent-a-cop security, but those boys have no power of arrest, and depending on local laws may or may not be armed. They (and a lot of other stores which have expensive merchandise, such as the jewelery people) also pay for real cops to show up when they're off duty. Real cops have arrest powers, even when off duty, and have real guns, even when off duty.

        The mall may or may not have their own security as well. In larger malls you can spot the mall rent-a-cops, they're the ones riding segways and carrying tasers.

    2. James O'Shea Silver badge

      The cops at Apple Stores (and vast numbers of other stores, from Walmart on up) are usually off-duty, getting overtime. The Publix supermarket I go to regularly has an arraignment with the State Police; there is usually a Florida Highway Patrol car parked outside, starting at about 18:00 until closing time (midnight), with the statie standing around inside, chatting up the cashiers. (and when I'm in there after 18:00 it's usually the same guy, a really, really, REALLY big black dude with a shaved head and a Marine Corps tattoo on his forearm. When it's not him, it's usually a tiny little Latina... who also stands around chatting up the cashiers.) Walmart has an arraignment with the Sheriff's Office, there are usually one or two Sheriff's cars parked outside Wallyworld all day and all night, as Wallyworld never closes. Many Walmart's have a small Sheriff's substation in the building. Incidents like <http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20121123/NEWS01/121123008/Update-Police-believe-Walmart-shooting-involved-dispute-over-parking-space> are why Wallyworld around here has cops in the building. (Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot over a parking space. You can't make this stuff up. No, I don't go near Wallyworld.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >. (Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot over a parking space. You can't make this stuff up. No, I don't go near Wallyworld.)

        Well, your cowboy wannabies must have their guns, or else they are being controlled by some commie fascist muslim government, or something.....

      2. Arctic fox
        WTF?

        @James O'Shea "Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot..."

        Good grief - there I was thinking that a car sticker I had seen "honk if you're reloading" was simply a somewhat macabre joke!

        1. g e
          Holmes

          Re: @James O'Shea "Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot..."

          What's the betting the horn plays the same tune as the Dukes of Hazzard

        2. 404 Silver badge

          Re: @James O'Shea "Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot..."

          Lies - it's near impossible to reload a weapon's magazine/chambers while driving unless you drive with your knees, so you really couldn't 'honk'. "Honk if your navigator is reloading for you" would probably be more correct.

          I shouldn't know this - I blame society.

          ;)

          1. Trevor Marron

            Re: @James O'Shea "Yes, there really was a shoot-out in a Wallyworld parking lot..."

            As an ex-firearms instructor I can assure you you are wrong. Putting your founds into a magazine is filling the magazine. Putting the magazine onto the weapon is loading the weapon. And that weapon could be something as small as a pistol, which I certainly have loaded and made ready whilst driving a car.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      really, i mean really...

      $50 an hour x 8 hours a day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks a year = 104k a year, your average police officer makes 40ish k a year. We'll just leave you to sort that out as far as how many additional officers can be supported through this type of revenue stream + taxes, rather than taxes alone.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: really, i mean really...

        In America you can pay for a cop to show up? That explains eeeeeeeeeevrything!

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Tank boy
      Trollface

      Fairly common

      "You know i'm shocked that more people aren't concerned with the fact that police officers are working security at private companies & that police authorities are getting paid to let their officers do this."

      The authorities aren't getting paid, the officers are. It's common for off-duty cops to moonlight as security (and get paid handsomely for it), and it's really win-win 99% of the time because the police don't have to respond to as many calls.

      It's that 1% of the time when an off-duty cop tasers someone at the mall and gets caught on camera doing it that gives people the wrong impression.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fairly common

        Obviously the world has moved on from the point when being a policeman was your job and taking on paid work in your time off would be seen as something like a conflict of interest.

        I think my father had to get approval from a Chief Superintendent to work a few of his off hours on a Saturday peeling and slicing potatoes for chips.

      2. Fatman Silver badge

        Re: Fairly common...police officers are working security at private companies

        Years ago, I was involved with a non-profit's annual fund-raisers. The fund-raiser took the form of a concert, with a few thousand attending. In order to ensure public safety, the non-profit did hire off duty sheriff deputies (in uniform) as security. In addition to patrolling the venue, they also provided security for the (cash counting) "back office" functions. Due to the presence of these officers, we had few problems, especially since alcohol was sold. Drunken concert goers can become very rowdy quickly if they think they can get away with acting like assholes.

  12. Trevor Marron

    So you can rent a cop by the hour who will then Taser some one you want out of the shop? America is one seriously fucked up country.

    1. James O'Shea Silver badge

      You can hire a cop by the hour who will _shoot_ someone you want out of the shop. Wallyworld had done exactly that. <http://raniakhalek.com/2012/12/10/black-mother-of-two-shot-dead-by-walmart-security-guard-for-shoplifting/>

      I repeat, I don't go near Wallyworld.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Going to WW can be fun

        http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/

        If you are in Florida, say Hi to Willy the Pimp.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Trevor Marron

      "So you can rent a cop by the hour who will then Taser some one you want out of the shop? America is one seriously fucked up country."

      Did you read the fucking story? You clowns in the UK might take law enforcement as kind of a joke, but in lots of other places "resisting arrest" is a pretty serious matter and will be dealt with by the use of as much force as needed to effect the arrest. Or, you know, she could have just, you know, LEFT THE STORE WHEN ASKED instead of harassing other customers by taking videos of them.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: @Trevor Marron

        AC -sounds like you are scared of little Chinese people, just like the big macho cops?

        Diddums.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Trevor Marron

          sounds like you are scared of little Chinese people

          Well, yes, you never know if they're descendants of Bruce Lee (or Jacky Chan, but then she would have legged it in some beautifully choreographed action)..

          /sarcasm

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Trevor Marron

        @AC

        "clowns in the UK might take law enforcement as kind of a joke"

        In the UK, if someone doesn't want to leave a shop, the first thing is to talk to them. If they have to be arrested to be removed then sobeit, but if they resist arrest usually its the application of more police officers and seldom if ever tasers or guns

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Trevor Marron

          > In the UK, if someone doesn't want to leave a shop, the first thing is to talk to them.

          The staff spoke to her and asked her to leave. The police officer (who is a member of the shop staff) spent ten minutes talking to her trying to get her to leave.

          > but if they resist arrest usually its the application of more police officers and seldom if ever tasers or guns

          He struggled for 5 minutes trying to get the cuffs on before tasering her. You might think she is just a small woman and he is a big cop but it is very difficult to cuff somebody who doesn't want to be cuffed. UK cops will taser you if you resist arrest.

          The woman had multiple opportunities to leave the shop (she had no right to be there since it isn't a public place) and resisted arrest so the tasering was justifiable.

  13. Herby Silver badge

    Of course, this begs the question...

    What happens to an iPhone if it is Tasered?

    Is it covered by the warranty?

    Of course, if a big burly policeman can't handle a diminutive Chinese "Lady", without the use of a Taser, what good is he? Probably scared of the lawsuit for bad (sexual?) behavior. Oh well...

    1. gkroog

      Re: Of course, this begs the question...

      With plenty of witnesses available to say she was being difficult?

  14. Tony Green
    Thumb Down

    Gaaahhd Bless America!

    That's all...

  15. mrd

    The key problem

    When faced with a foreigner who does not speak English, they failed to SPEAK MORE LOUDLY AND SLOWLY for her so she could understand their requests.

    That and... since when were tasers compliance tools? They came in as alternatives to lethal force (bzzt bzzt instead of bang bang).

  16. h3

    You really shouldn't allow police officers to be employed by private companies. (At least retaining the powers of arrest / guns / tazers etc etc).

    1. An0n C0w4rd

      Citizens arrests are legal in most states in the USA. As is carrying of guns, although most jurisdictions require a special license to carry concealed weapons. However, a gun on a holster on a guys hip is not concealed and they are therefore OK to be carried.

      I don't know the laws about Tasers, especially as it applies to the jurisdiction in question.

      And lets be honest here, who would you rather have for security? A mall cop who has only basic training, is probably still armed, and doesn't know the relevant laws, or a real cop?

  17. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Stupid customer, stupid cop

    People are stupid; cops are stupid (and belligerent a**holes) more often than not. Another pointless and unnecessary action that makes me feel that this world is a special education class. Nothing new here, nothing learned, humanity did not advance, and people continued to buy iPhones after a brief pause. (which is hard for me to understand)

    Lather, rinse, repeat. Life goes on.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    C'mon commentards!

    This simply isn't good enough!

    Thirty comments in. El Reg's editor has served it up for you on a plate, with a story featuring:

    * a [round?] cornered woman,

    * China,

    * multiple iPhone purchasing

    * hysteria provoked by denial of same

    * even a direct quote saying "Her brain went totally blank,"

    ...and the best you've managed so far is a debate about the rights and wrongs of private security cops.

    Shocking performance. Truly shocking!

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: C'mon commentards!

      Nice try.. (walks away whistling)

  19. Richard Altmann
    Happy

    Tasering someone who wants to buy an i-whatever?

    ...

    I leave that to you

  20. James 100

    Refusing to leave, resisting arrest?!

    Her actions are completely crazy here. OK, trying to buy a bunch of iPhones to re-sell - nothing wrong with that, though Apple are free to refuse to sell if they want. Refusing to leave the store when kicked out, though, then resisting arrest for 15 minutes confronted with one then two actual cops!? That's just nuts.

    Language barrier or not, "GTFO of this shop" is easy enough to understand, as is having armed men in uniform putting handcuffs on you - WTF did she think that bit was, an over-accurate stripogram? It was obvious she had to leave; refusing to go even after the police get involved is unbelievably stupid however you look at it.

    Cultural differences don't really help her case either: the Chinese government isn't exactly noted for tolerating people standing up to authority.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Refusing to leave, resisting arrest?!

      > Language barrier or not,

      Curiously enough, when a neighbour of mine was arrested he completely lost the ability to speak English and had to have a translator brought in throughout his arrest and trial.

      It makes me me wonder how she managed to communicate to the staff exactly what apple products she wanted.

  21. The BigYin

    Make your bloody minds up!

    So this lady is apparently trying to buy up the entire USA stock of iPhone 5s to meet the staggering demand in China? But according to El Reg, 14th Dec there is Chinese indifference to the iPhone 5.

    So which is it, El Reg?

    As for the lady being tasered, I find it staggering that a fully trained police officer could not restrain her and decided to use potentially lethal force. Are USA officers not taught locks and holds? It is perfectly possible to hold some immobile and compliant with a joint lock (especially given the extra leverage cuffs allow for). Back-up was coming, why not just restrain her? And as there no other mall security closer?

    1. Trevor Marron

      Re: Make your bloody minds up!

      Did you not read the bit about the already over-priced iPhone 5 being over 20% more expensive in China? The Chinese are clearly not as daft as the Western nations who buy the stuff as they clearly know a rip-off when they see it.

      1. Steve Todd
        Stop

        Re: Make your bloody minds up!

        And by the time she's added her costs, shipping etc you think that this will cost less than the official Chinese price? Grey importers work for love don't they?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Make your bloody minds up!

          Because obviously it's impossible that they know people who'd be traveling to China anyway and who'd have enough spare baggage capacity to carry some, er, gifts.

          Last month I visited the UK for a week, with 1 suitcase and a very small carry-on* and was able to carry about 20 pounds of food. How much does a boxed iPhone weigh?

          (Anon so you'll have to fail to imagine the D'Oh! icon yourself.)

          * 7" Tablet << Laptop

          1. Steve Todd
            Stop

            Re: Make your bloody minds up!

            And these people work for love also? My understanding is that grey market iPhone 5's fetch upwards of $1000 when sold in China.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Strictly my opinions

    1) wtf are you doing in a foreign store in a foreign country when you can't 'communicate' (read: have a notion of the used language). She should have brought her daughter with her who speaks enough english to make things clear for her.

    2) The police officer was doing his job. Period!

    3) This is totally Apple's fault. Apple, as a global corporation with stores all over the world, should have released this phone globally AT ONCE. Then this kind of things don't happen. They deliberately fuel the "black/grey markets" with such stupid sales-decisions.

    This is even weirder if you know that the damn things are made in China yet China is (one of the) last countries that actually have them on sale.

    It's just stupid behavior like Nokia did with the N9 (and many other models recently). Nitpicking where, what and when. Adding more frustration in our lives with devices that are supposed to make our lives easier.

    I tell you, this will inevitably create anti-consumerism and apathy for future products. This will kill these 'global' corporation. They have no clue what the fuck they're doing, living in their ivory towers and are too big for their boots.

    1. gkroog

      Re: Strictly my opinions

      "the damn things are made in China yet China is (one of the) last countries that actually have them on sale"

      That, friend, is Apple wielding their power over the companies that do their manufacturing bidding.

      That, I suspect, is at the real reason for the litigation saga between Apple and Samsung. Speaking of which,

      why on earth would the Chinese want iPhone 5s? The Galaxy S3 is beautiful device, and China must make at least a few comparable and suitably acceptable substitutes... And I'm sure Samsung would be happy to sell her more than two...

      I agree with your point about Nokia. Stupid company infighting ruined the development of the OS they planned to replace Symbian with, built from Linux and which would have rivaled Android. No one will learn from that though.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Strictly my opinions

      Re: Strictly my opinions

      Thank God for that..

      1 - so you'll never travel to a country of which you don't speak the language? Or you expect all to speak English (which is just a tad arrogant if you're in a strange country, but I'll let that slide)

      2 - even if he was, his life was not being threatened so tasering her amounts to excessive use of force. Or wanton cruelty, take your pick.

      3 - nothing to do with Apple. They're not exactly the only company with a release strategy, which is mainly there to contain demand within the ability to produce the goods. If you are so desperate to blame someone, blame any idiot who needs a new shiny gadget NOW instead of giving it a few weeks so you can do all of this in peace and quiet. Yesterday, I wandered into an Apple shop to look at the smaller iPad. Because the fanbois have done their queueing a few weeks ago, I could just walk in, have a look at it, decide it wasn't for me and walk out. You must be pretty sad if your self value depends on any gadget, be it Apple, Google, Samsung - whatever. You gain a lot of life experience if you escape the need for instant gratification..

      I tell you, this will inevitably create anti-consumerism and apathy for future products. This will kill these 'global' corporation. They have no clue what the fuck they're doing, living in their ivory towers and are too big for their boots.

      I'm going to coin this as a standard reply as of now: YGTDW. You Got The Dosage Wrong..

  23. Le grinch

    Wonder if Mr Cook will start giving details of the number of taserings at Apple stores at the next keynote. Hang on he is filling out the patent paperwork for iTaser right now

  24. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    WTF?

    why bother?

    You would have to use a Taser to get me *into* an Apple store.

  25. Ilsa Loving
    Joke

    Damn immigrants!

    How dare they come here and take all our hard-fought and desperately needed iPhones!

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Police should at minimum loose their jobs

    Polciemen working 'overtime' as security guards is an incredibly bad idea. There is a massive danger of conflict of interest in any incident involving their employer or their actions as guards. If they work more than trivial hours there is the problem of tiredness and how they function as part of their 'real job'. If they are security guards then there is a high probability of involvement in incidents that will requireinvestigation by colleagues with at the very least an appearnce of bias.

    In this case they police were not acting as police officers but store security guards. Yes the women should have left the store when asked but if she does not then the response of attempting to hand cuff her is assault and the women is entitled to defend herself. The polcieman involved should face serious charges but in their defence they probably got confused and forgot they were just security guards. The whole incident shows how stupid it is to allow police to take on this sort of second job.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Police should at minimum loose their jobs

      a thought struck me.

      Even if its acceptable for police officers to moonlight as security guards for local business, surely the gun and the taser they carry are the property of the local police force and not intended for their personal use.

      Now if the gun and or taser were supplied by the shop......

      1. James O'Shea Silver badge

        Re: Police should at minimum loose their jobs

        The whole point to hiring the off-duty cop is to have him show, in full uniform, with gun, taser, cuffs, and all. If everything goes right, he's a scarecrow and nothing happens. If there's a problem, he has the power of arrest and the ability to back it up, even when off duty.

    2. graeme leggett

      Re: Police should at minimum loose their jobs

      ACPO had this to say on 2nd jobs earlier this year

      "Chief Constables, who consider individual cases, are clear that officers must not engage in activity which would adversely impact on their ability to fulfil their duties or would bring disrepute on the Service."

      And Newman in 1985 said that a police constable exercising police powers should "Be and be seen to be, unfettered by obligation, deciding each issue without fear or favour, malice or ill-will.”

      And in the "Without Fear or Favour" report HM Inspectorate say of police regulations "These regulations require an officer to apply for permission to have a business interest, and the chief officer to determine whether the interest is “compatible” with the officer being a member of the force"

  27. Johan Bastiaansen
    Devil

    I can rent a cop for 50$ an hour?

    And he tasers people for me? Will he taser the cops from the Apple shop?

    Well, that google shit would probably say: "this is capitalism"

    I say: "hookers aren't that cheap". At least not for an hour.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not politically Correct.

    I live in China. You see, here, people who can afford iPhones are rich. Security mall officers never do anything here. They sit around. They have no power. They are treated like dogs, and are called that way by many young childrens and adults alike.

    Rich people are usually pushy, talk loudly, and have no manners when in public. They will quite literally elbow you out in line, talk at the top of their voice on their cell phone, park their car in front of yours and therefore making you stuck there, or park it in front of the only exit. Their lack of civility is extraordinary. These things I see everyday, I just need to look out the window or take a walk. How could a rich little strumpet like that lose face to a security mall officer? Impossible. How could she kowtow? Impossible. Way too proud and arrogant. I see her type every day here. Flouting the law is quite normal in China. These little strumpets always believe they can get away with everything because in China they do through bribery in those extreme cases...

    Welcome to America, where when a police officer tells you to walk away, you better fricking believe that you should shut the hell up and do as told. Welcome to America, where stores employees will often try to follow the rules and the law. I would like to buy that officer a beer. Seeing one of these uncivilized (whatever the nationality) little strumpets, who never follow the rules, is usually rude, has no civility or manners finally get what she or he deserves feels very good.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Welcome to America, the police state.

      1. James O'Shea Silver badge

        Sigh. Time that I gave the (incomplete) list of police agencies operating here in Palm Beach County. (Equivalents will be operating in most areas of the US.)

        The major cities and towns (West Palm, Palm Beach, Boca, Delray, Boynton, Greenacres, Royal Palm, Riviera, a few others) will have there very own cop shops, with from a few dozen to a few hundred sworn officers. West Palm has a helo.

        The Sheriff's Office will be the local cops for the rest of the county; Sheriff's Deputies are available as backup for the city cops, if necessary. Palm Beach County has two helicopters and a number of fixed-wing aircraft (those last are mostly for traffic enforcement along I-95 and the Turnpike and Southern). Sheriff Rick wants to get some drones, also for traffic enforcement.

        The Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement are the primary state cops. Usually only the FHP is visible, and usually doing traffic enforcement.

        The Palm Beach County School Police have jurisdiction in all K-12 schools in the county.

        Florida Fish & Wildlife are the animal and hunting cops, and also do search and rescue when someone does something silly in the swamp. They, and the FHP, have motorboats and do drug and illegal immigrant interdiction as well. FFW cops were the first search-and-rescue into southern Alabama and Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina. Say what you might about Jeb Bush, he had his boys ready to roll. Unlike the idiots in Alabama and Louisiana.

        The air and sea ports have Border Patrol and Immigration & Customs. BP is also at the major train stations. They're Federal.

        More Feds include the FBI (HQ in downtown West Palm) and the Secret Service (hunting counterfeiters, they're Treasury) and DEA and ATF (lots of drugs and guns; also, the local Indian tribes get their revenge on the palefaces by both running casinos and selling tax-free cigs and liquor. If someone resells the cigs and liquor outside the res without paying the tax, that's bootlegging, and is a fine old Southern tradition and keeps the DEA and the Secret Service busy.) There's also the Marshal's Service.

        Finally, there're the military cops. Swarms of Coast Guard, doing drug and illegal immigrant interdiction, and Army, Navy, and Air Force cops keeping an eye on the assorted military (regular, National Guard, or reserves) roaming the county; the National Guard armory is right opposite the Sheriff's Office HQ. (And just down the road from the biggest strip club in the county.) Now that the Coasties are in Homeland Security instead of Transportation, they have powers of arrest, too.

        yes, there are a lot of cops around here. An inland county probably wouldn't have Coasties, and a county which doesn't have an international airport wouldn't have the ICE, and a small county, such as, oh, Kenedy (yes, one 'n') County, Texas, population 4,000, won't have any towns with their own cop shops and the local sheriff's office won't be particularly large (Hampshire County, West Virginia, population 20,000, has a sheriff's office totaling under four dozen for the entire county and no town cop shops...) It should be noted that Palm Beach County has a larger population than several states. (Alaska, Montana, both Dakotas...)

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Suggests she goes to Currys

    Given how empty Curry's was on Thursday in a heaving shopping centre, I imagine Currys wouldn't taser a customer but would have them stuffed for posterity!

  30. toadwarrior

    The fact this happened in an apple store seems kind of irrelevant and just a poor excuse to have yet another apple story on the front page. But forgetting that, I was under the impression that US cops are getting lazy and taze for any reason now do I'm not surprised it happened.

  31. John Deeb

    year income

    $16,000 .... she and her uncle could buy 80 phones with that and sell those at $80,000 in China. No wonder they were persistent, a whole year income for the family at least.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is what I don't understand...

    OK, let's look at the generic scenario that seems to play out over and over, because there is something I just don't understand:

    Stupid person goes somewhere and does stupid, antisocial things.

    Normal person: "Please stop doing that."

    Stupid person: "FU!" [continues doing stupid antisocial thing]

    Normal person: "Stop that or I call the cops!"

    Stupid person: "FU!" [continues doing stupid antisocial thing]

    Cop: "Stop doing that antisocial thing or I will have to arrest you."

    Stupid person: "FU!" [continues doing stupid antisocial thing]

    Cop: "OK, you are under arrest."

    Stupid person: "FU!" [resists arrest]

    Cop: "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST. STOP RESISTING."

    Stupid person: "FU!" [resists arrest]

    Alternate path 1:

    [Cop and many other cops dogpile on stupid person, who continues to resist. Stupid person picks up the inevitable bruises and possible injures.]

    Typical Internet Poster: "WAAAA! Stupid person got hurt! Those meany cops didn't have to dogpile him - they should have done something else."

    Alternate path 2:

    [Cop tases stupid person and completes arrest.]

    Typical Internet Poster: "WAAAA! Stupid person got hurt! That meany cop didn't have to taze him - he should have done something else."

    Alternate path 3:

    [Cop shoots stupid person and completes arrest.]

    Typical Internet Poster: "WAAAA! Stupid person got hurt! That meany cop didn't have to shot him - he should have done something else."

    Alternate path 4:

    [Cop sprays stupid person and completes arrest.]

    Typical Internet Poster: "WAAAA! Stupid person got hurt! That meany cop didn't have to spray him - he should have done something else."

    Alternate path 5:

    [Cop shrugs and says "Sorry, that's all I'm allowed to do" and walks off.]

    [Stupid person continues antisocial behavior.]

    Typical Internet Poster: "WAAAA! The cops aren't doing anything!"

    So, all you armchair quarterbacks who think you can do better - what is Alternative path 6, that prevents stupid people from continuing their antisocial ways while simultaneously meeting with your approval?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is what I don't understand...

      "So, all you armchair quarterbacks who think you can do better - what is Alternative path 6, that prevents stupid people from continuing their antisocial ways while simultaneously meeting with your approval?"

      More police. A taser is the cheap option.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This is what I don't understand...

        Re: AC

        And so we have more police - and so we can create a bigger dogpile, with more chances for the poor stupid person to get hurt, and this is different how?

        The police still need some option to respond to a lawbreaker other than "STOP! or I shall say STOP again."

        So what is that option?

    2. defiler Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: This is what I don't understand...

      I saw scenario 6 on the streets of Edinburgh. Policeman took down ne'er-do-well with a well-placed motorbike after the culprit started to become a danger. It was brilliant. Of course the little old dears who saw it moaned bitterly along the lines of "WAAAA! Stupidd person got hurt!" It was still brilliant.

      Who's got option 7, because I'm looking forward to that!?

  33. no_RS

    OTT..

    Everyone who carries a taser type device should test it on themselves so they know what if feels like, they might be less inclined for use it unless absolutely necessary. Joe Public has been getting upset in shops for as long as shops have existed without being tasered, smacks of a totally over the top reaction relative to the incident.

    Sueing for excessive force might be more profitable than shipping iphones to china...

    1. Gerard Krupa

      Re: OTT..

      It is frequently mandatory for police officers who are required to carry Tasers to experience the effects of the device first hand during their training. Given how many dodgy Taser incidents there have been in New Hampshire (including one "medical homicide" due to an officer firing the device at someone's chest and one mass zapping of a wayward cow) it doesn't seem to be getting the message across.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: OTT..

        It kinda suggests a need for re-training..

        The problem is that these guys NEED a non-lethal option - the police is at the sharp end (let's not forget that they can't call anyone else when it gets dicey, even backup may arrive too late), but in this case I am wondering why the officer did not use lock and restraint techniques - AFAIK that's the first thing taught.

        I would have restrained this person and then taken her outside, so I'm surprised at the taser response. This means we either have a far too trigger happy cop, or we haven't been told the whole story..

  34. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    "Lies - it's near impossible to reload a weapon's magazine/chambers while driving"

    Practice.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does she not realise that there are far superior handsets available?

    iPhone5, please. What a load of old shite!

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