back to article Apple shares take biggest one-day hammering in 4 years

Apple shares took the biggest single-day hit in four years on Wednesday, falling more than 6 percent on NASDAQ to $538.79. The tumble took Apple's market cap down to $506.84bn, well below the dizzy heights of $705.07 billion reached in September this year. Yesterday saw an eye-watering $34.8 billion wiped off the total value …

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  1. Silverburn
    Happy

    Simples

    I can restore that 34bn for you apple, for a mere 1% fee:

    - fit ipad mini with retina

    - Make your consumer devices more user serviceable. Cut out the recent trend for gluing shit, for example.

    - stop taking the piss with your pricing

    - stop suing everyone

    Bingo. Job done. Invoice is in the post.

    1. Tim 11

      Re: Simples

      Broadly agree but I think taking the piss with the pricing is the main reason the share price got so high in the first place. I wouldn't recommend going downmarket

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Simples

        Would BMW really want to compete with Ford on pricing?

        1. Ian Johnston Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Simples

          That would be the BMW which has been doing well since their cut-price 3 series started outselling the Mondeo in Britain, would it?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Simples

            " the BMW which has been doing well since their cut-price 3 series started outselling the Mondeo in Britain, would it?"

            Are we sure it wouldn't be the BMW that bought the Mini factories and now sells Minis, because it needed an even lower-end model in its range than its toy 3 series models?

            And then introduced the 1 series too?

            No, it wouldn't be any of them would it :)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Simples

          Probably not, but then neither Ford nor BMW's are throwaway technology so it's not a valid comparison.

          Perhaps the best comparison would be between Crystal and Cava. Both are essentially the same thing, fizzy alcohol, one is bought by people trying to impress while the other is bought by the average Joe that just wants a fizzy alcohol that they think tastes nice.

          You can blather all you want but at the end of the day there are only two salient points. Does it get you drunk and do you like the taste. The latter of course is completely subjective and any claims otherwise just make an issue of your conditioning.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Simples

            "Perhaps the best comparison would be between Crystal (sic) and Cava. Both are essentially the same thing, fizzy alcohol, one is bought by people trying to impress while the other is bought by the average Joe that just wants a fizzy alcohol that they think tastes nice."

            Cristal is the brand name of a Champagne produced by Louis Roederer.

            Cava is a Spanish sparkling wine mostly from Catalonia (fyi: Spain)

            So, you spelled the name of one of the premier products of one of the most famous Champagne Houses (I spared you the French there) incorrectly, and followed by comparing it with a generic wine classification from a different country or origin. Yep, it is clear to me which of these two drinks you might prefer, and exactly why.

            You are correct in that Champagne (incl. Cristal, but you chose Cristal because it's probably the only premier product you can name but I will include the classification as a whole here) and Cava are consumed by people who want something that "tastes nice". I suspect that this is true of every recreational beverage!

            Your distinction however is arbitrary and in fact wrong. If one labelled "Manuel's Cava" as Cristal it would sell vanishingly close zero bottles because it would taste like Cava and not Champagne. People drink what they like, limited only by what they can afford. Very few people drink anything they don't like because it happens to be expensive. This is an idea that envious poor people have to make them feel better about being poor.

            Millions and millions of perfectly ordinary people like Champagne because it "tastes nice" and they drink it regularly (check out the production volume from Champagne). Cristal is one of many fine examples, and one with a curious history as it happens.

            The best wine is the one you like the best. The rest is training, perception and physiology. Like walking, it takes practice to learn about, understand and appreciate wine. There is no requirement to do so and most people don't make the effort.

            Anyway, keep on drinking your 7-11 Cava in ignorant bliss, and enjoy every drop!

            I'll take a rain-check on it if you don't mind.

    2. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Simples

      If you really think making iDevices more servicable is going to have a big impact, you're really not in the same world as everyone else. It's a very dangerous mistake to assume your experiences transfer to the majority, surely even the most hardened Linux/build-my-own-NAS/compile-my-own-OS person realises the vast majority of people aren't interested in even taking the case off their PC?

      1. Great Bu

        Re: Simples

        I took the case off my PC once, now the world is inflicted with 'Fluffor, the Beast from Beyond the Heat Sink' - if only HP had concreted the case shut when I bought it we wouldn't be where we are today......

    3. What of IT?
      Meh

      Re: Simples

      I'm sure Apple, which is probably turning into more of a law firm than a tech firm, will be thumbing through the list of top 100 tech companies trying to see who else it can sue to recoop this $34.8 billion loss.

      1. Neill Mitchell

        Re: Simples

        Job's done surely.

      2. Oninoshiko

        Re: 34.8 B USD loss

        Apple hasn't lost a damn thing, the shareholders who bought at the high-point have an unrealized loss (unless they sold, then they really have taken a loss).

      3. Bugs R Us
        WTF?

        Re: Simples

        It's not a $34bn "loss". This is funny money reduction in Apple's market cap. Is Apple really worth $700bn?

    4. A n o n y m o u s

      Re: Simples

      They should try looking at the p/e ratio - Apple is remarkably good value for a company actually making huge profits. Take out their cash mountain (and yes it is a mountain) and they look a bargain compared to the stratospheric valuations given to companies like Amazon.

      They have a huge installed base - even if their market share is slipping (if it really is) the market is growing rapidly so the volumes shipped are increasing. AND all this is before you factor in any new products or services - how about a proper Apple TV, how about a subscription media service... etc.?

      Samsung sell you a tablet today and that's it - no onward revenue - Apple sell you a tablet, then they can make money off the media / games etc. you play. I wonder what Apple's profit per iPad is over it's lifetime compared to Samsung - I recon it's 5-10x.

      1. .stu

        Re: Simples

        "... even if their market share is slipping (if it really is) ..."

        I can tell you that it *really* is. I popped into PCWorld yesterday to pick up a cheap 3d bluray player and noticed that the usually bustling apple section was a ghost town, whereas the usually empty android tablet section was a hive of activity.

      2. Oninoshiko

        Re: A n o n y m o u s

        AAPL's P/E is a respectable 12.4, 'tis true.

        Their market share really IS slipping, and not by a little bit. Admittedly, much of this is because GOOG et. al. have been expanding the market so greatly, but then again, you have to ask yourself, why ISN'T AAPL? Marketshare drives developers. AAPL has been massively successful at driving developers to their platform, and using that as a driver for market share, but GOOG has been getting more successful at driving marketshare lately by way of more models and a wider range of prices. Eventually, the larger user base will make Android the preferred app development platform, which will be devastating for APPL. As much as I don't like Steve "flyin' chair" Ballmer, he was right on three things: "Developers, developers, developers."

        In addition, I like yields above 5. It's a personal thing, and YMMV, but AAPL's paltry 1.94 just doesn't do it for me.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: A n o n y m o u s

          ". Eventually, the larger user base will make Android the preferred app development platform, which will be devastating for APPL."

          The problem is that Android is already 70% of smartphones worldwide yet that hasnt changed the development pattern or profits for developers. iOS is still king. It hasnt changed the web usage either with the vast majority of web usage still done on iOs devices.

          Android would need near 100% domination to make it worth a devs world to develop only Android and thats NEVER going to happen with both MS and Apple having billions in the bank to make sure of that.

          1. Mark .

            Re: A n o n y m o u s

            "that hasnt changed the development pattern or profits for developers. iOS is still king."

            Because there's plenty more for free on Android, which I'd say is a better thing. But remember it's not all about profit - many apps are free, because they're given away by companies for their websites, or to advertise a product or service. There the key thing is market share (or it ought to be - unfortunately a lot of ppl think that iphone is the largest platform, but eventually the truth will catch up).

            "It hasnt changed the web usage either with the vast majority of web usage still done on iOs devices."

            Citation needed. There are various tracking sites making various claims, though I've seen plenty that show Android on top, as well as ones showing other platforms like Nokia above iphone. There was only a short period a few years ago where iphone was top, but the other platforms quickly overtook.

      3. Chet Mannly

        Re: Simples

        "Samsung sell you a tablet today and that's it - no onward revenue"

        You mean apart from the Samsung App Store.

        Oh and the Reader Hub, the Magazine Hub, Music Service, Video Service which are all bundled with every device.

        No onward revenue indeed *slaps forehead*

      4. Mark .

        Re: Simples

        The better comparison for that would be Google, who are now making money off of 75% of smartphone users (and rising) from the media and applications/games, without having to do much at all when it comes to making and selling hardware (even the Google branded devices are manufactured by other companies). They've also done very little advertising for Android, compared to the vast amounts for iphones/ipads.

        Google also already have Google TV (which has had a slow start, but now seems to be being picked up by the TV manufacturers, particularly in the US now).

        "Huge installed userbase" - so does just about any multinational company.

        Plus who cares anyway. From a consumer point of view, I care little about which company makes more money - that just means they're the ones pocketing more of my money as profit, rather than functionality for me.

        1. Philip Lewis
          Stop

          Re: Simples

          Serious non-troll question for people who do not live in the US:

          I live part of the time in Denmark. There isn't, and to my knowledge never has been, ANY direct advertising for Apple products here in denmark on TV at all. The advertising evident is always from dealers or carriers (for iPhones) and it is in the printed media and billboards etc.

          Is denmark the only country spared Apple's TV advertising?

  2. Rampant Spaniel

    Whoodathunkdit??

    Apple is a great company on an amazing streak. Their products don't suit me but I respect their approach and success. I don't love their marketing hype and their bullying tactics. Whilst Apple is obviously worth a large pile of money I felt that it was significantly overvalued.

    They seem to have hit the end of a road of products (the procession from ipod to iphone to ipad all seemed very sensible) and are trying to find the next big thing to keep the ecosystem going. The risk is if they don't they lose their edge and can't justify their margins. The market seems to be responding to this lack of a clear future, it's been a while (in apple terms) since the last genuinely distinct product was released. Retina displays were a great idea, the new ipad mini isn't really a new distinct product but rather just a smaller variant.

    It will be interesting to see where they do go next.

    1. Lallabalalla
      Gimp

      Re: Whoodathunkdit??

      Apple are "great" in the sense of "very large" but a lot of people hate them for various reasons. In the UK there's a big awareness of tax-dodging now, though this won't affect their share price and probably won't affect sales either. But the reality is that they are rampant price-gougers and -skimmers who charge top dollar for products that are made as cheaply as possible: in other words, a completely normal multinational. Their marketing - particularly retail - is pretty slick, up there with other high-fashion brands.

      They *were* on an amazing streak and that's been over for a year now. But as you say they've hit the end of the road: Not only has nothing new come out, they have degraded their existing lines in various ways : no optical drive on a so-called all-in-one iMac for example. Maps for another.

      Personally I'd like to see them leverage their current inventory by getting into bed with some proper partner developers who match their style. Let's posit the idea of a super-clean looking CK wristwatch with built-in bluetooth iPod mini touchscreen and iPhone controller - not the clunky Sony idea but something really smart that would give Tag and Breitling a run for their money in the fashion stakes. OK maybe not CK but you get the idea. But Apple are too proud. It'll never happen.

      It's very hard to come up with "what next". The genius of Apple's catalogue is that nobody knew they wanted these things - iPad, iPod touch et al - until they saw one. Then they became overnight must-haves. I don't think I've got the wild imagination required to think of "what next" (apart from my old email hat idea - but that's old tech now).

      How about you lot. Apart from the usual "I'd like to see Apple drop off the face of the earth" trolls, what next for Apple?

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Whoodathunkdit??

        >>a lot of people hate them for various reasons

        "a lot" is not true*. The Register and other nerdy sites are wildly unrepresentative of the world/market as a whole - the world likes iPad and Windows, for whatever reasons. You might say "a lot of open source supporters hate Apple" but I doubt you could even say "a lot of IT people hate Apple" because iPad is a super-hit even among developers.

        *speaking in % terms. If every single Reg reader hates Apple that's essentially 0% of the world.

        1. Lallabalalla

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          Well, there's also the guy that threw the other guy out of an interview because he had an iPhone. Don't forget him.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          @JDX

          'A lot' IS true. The comment didn't say 'the majority', or 'a large percentage', just 'a lot'. I'm not defending the comment that accompanied it but the statement is true - a lot of people hate them for various reasons. In the same way that I know a lot of people who like war gaming (global percentage probably 0%), my house is built from a lot of bricks (percentage compared to all the bricks in the world...0%), and a lot of people were murdered in the 9/11 terror attacks (global percentage 0%).

          For what it's worth, I have a different experience of apple love within IT (and yes, I work in IT) - practically nobody I know in IT (especially developers) use iPads (for work anyway). Some do use the proper apple products though, just not the toy end of the apple range.

        3. Bugs R Us

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          Sorry, but the "world" does not like Apple. Some parts of the world do. In Spain Apple's market share is less than 5%. In India it's less than 1%.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Stop

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          @JDX

          The Computer Nerd/Tech/Geek can be thought off as market multipliers when it comes to electronics/software. Their opinions shape the market.

          When my non-geek family and friends look to buy a phone they come to me and ask for advice, when I was in HMV recently people cottoned on to the fact I knew about tablets people started pestering me for advice.

          If you go back through places like the register/slashdot/etc... you will see in 2004 - 2007 a lot of people were talking about how good Apple Macbooks were, Apple were very well thought of within the community and promoted by us to the general public.

          Around 2009 we started seeing anti-Apple feeling and now the majority of forums seem to be filled with Apple hate. You can start seeing that attitude amongst the general public, I suspect by the middle of the decade most people won't like Apple or buy Apple.

          I don't think this effect is specific to the technology industries either (see fashion, cars, films, books, etc..)

        5. Mark .

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          "the world likes iPad and Windows, for whatever reasons"

          The former isn't anywhere near the same scale as the latter. True, most people don't hate them, but most people don't care either, and are using Android and Windows.

      2. Rampant Spaniel

        Re: Whoodathunkdit??

        Great in the sense of managing to acquire a mountain of gold, enough to make a dragon weep. Their products aren't perfect (and you are entirely right on the nobody knew they wanted them part) but they sell plenty of them, they outplayed many other phone companies. How many phone models does Apple sell. One (in 3? different sizes) and they also sell 'last years' model. Now go look at how many models HTC or Samsung sell?

        I wouldn't buy an iphone but I can respect that Apple have made a LOT of money. Yes their margins are huge but if people didn't want to pay it they wouldn't be able to charge it.

        They are absolute twats over their lawsuits and tax stratergy but I'd have expected nothing else from them. The whole our phone are made with fairy jizz markting is sickening but it seems to work.

        As for whats next, if they could get content maybe they could make a big dent in the emerging 4k tv market?

        1. Lallabalalla

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          "they outplayed many other phone companies" - I think they outplayed them all, actually! " One (in 3? different sizes) "... That's a good thing, right? Fragmentation, etc.

          Agreed about the twats thing though it gives us something to rant about. And there may after all be method in that madness. - *may*.

          I'd like a TV done by them - but I doubt I could afford it (read - I'm not spending that on a telly! I'm the kind of cheapskate that won't pay a SKY sub while there's freeview). B&O customers only need apply methinks.

          And yes, when I say "a lot of people hate Apple" - that is - a lot of people on this forum. And some tree-huggers of course. And a few people in China. Hardly anyone in fact. But my point is that their reputation is not quite as shiny as their products, and tarnishing more as time goes by. I'd sure hate to work for them!

        2. Mark .

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          I'm not sure why having fewer choice of models is relevant in anyway. It's a different way of working.

          I wouldn't favour or praise a company for having higher profit margins either - that's higher prices, without the higher quality.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Whoodathunkdit??

        Apple have a big advantage, customer service. They have shops, you can get things replaced and repaired.

        They're usually fair about problems too, they do get a lot of false claims, people who have dropped phones, washed them etc.

        For some people paying a premium for a nice looking product and decent customer service is worthwhile. It's a huge gamble buying anything from Google based device makers. Generally the customer service is average to poor. Google themselves are pretty terrible, their email responses are canned and the quality of the messages on-par with an email phisher at times.

        That said, I'm not really sure their good times will last for much longer the product is already suffering under Cookie. The premium isn't justified any more, sloppy behind the times product with a premium which doesn't seem to translate into durability or build quality. Much happier with my Nokia 920.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Whoodathunkdit??

        "They *were* on an amazing streak and that's been over for a year now."

        Meanwhile back in reality Apple's financial 2012 had record revenues and profits for each quarter and made $41.66b profit compared to $25.92b in 2011.

        How much would they have made if the amazing streak had continued?

        (numbers from http://investor.apple.com/results.cfm)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Meanwhile back in reality

          Current figures don't count for much, what happens when it's time for the next great Apple product and they fumble it because the company without Steve just isn't selling the dream any more?

        2. Philip Lewis
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          WTF!!! Do you really, honestlly think any of the moron Apple haters here at The Register even care what the reality of Apple is? No, I didn't think so. Your post is an elegant troll.

          For those of us that have worked on the street, the stupidity tech nerds display on forums such as these is heartwarming. You see, the last idiot hasn't been born, and on the street, that can be converted in the readies.

          I don't see Apple disappearing any time soon, and neither does anyone with a brain. Any company showing those numbers is more or less impervious to trivial market movements. They are not impervious to all sorts of other events though. Cook might do an Elop and destroy the company (I doubt it though), or Windows Phone might be a massive hit (I don't think so, though I am not anti WinPhone 8 in any way).

          Reality check. Apples profit's are not determined by the financial markets.

          Paris: Like Jonus Cord before her and Apple now ...

      5. Mark .

        Re: Whoodathunkdit??

        I agree, though just to note:

        "The genius of Apple's catalogue is that nobody knew they wanted these things - iPad, iPod touch et al - until they saw one. Then they became overnight must-haves."

        The "genius" is indeed marketing - and note this was not overnight, but there was vast amounts of free media hype for months before the products were even announced, let alone released.

        Nor are their products overnight must haves, but grow just like any other product line. Just look at the iphone platform compared to other smartphone sales since 2007 - it wasn't until iphone 4 that sales were really anywhere near mainstream. In the early years they were behind even Windows Mobile. Or the original ipod only worked with Macs, and was a flop, only growing with later generations.

        But I do agree that they are in a corner, now that the "computer" market is saturated with a continual range from small handheld to large full desktop, with everything in between, and no more gaps. Their mp3 player products will face increasing competition from smartphones and tablets (especially now that they changed connector messes up all the free unfair advantage they get from those making speakers and stereo systems in cars, by only working with ipods/iphones).

        Of course there are other markets to enter - TVs, consoles, washing machines, and no doubt they'll get loads of media hype for any new product there, even though other companies have been doing the same thing just as well for years.

        High quality fashion brands don't need to stick their logos everywhere (let alone make them light up) - people know what they are from the design itself, and if you don't know, you're not considered the target market (or so the argument goes - personally I find the whole "designer" thing a bit nonsense). But what they do is more like Adidas, with logos everywhere. No doubt the buyers think it makes them look cool, but that doesn't mean anyone else cares. If someone has, e.g., an Armani suit, you know (or don't know) because of the suit - not because there's "Armani" written in light up letters across the back. Similarly with watches - indeed, it's the cheap ones that put a logo there.

        1. Philip Lewis
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Whoodathunkdit??

          Marketing 101:

          No amount of advertising and promotion will enable a product to achieve more than momentary success. Long term success requires a good product.

          I disagree with your implication that Apple is somehow being squeezed in any of their markets. Indications are that they are very, very good at retaining customers (high customer satisfaction levels and repeat purchase levels) so the while it is true that device convergence is stressing the iPod range, Apple is perfectly situated to fill this gap. The MacAir is fabulously successful (I have had one since the week they were released) because it is a solution that the market simply could not offer. Everyone and their dog is now trying to emulate that success with me2 products of varying quality. The Samsung Series 9 is a great little machine for example, but it is clearly an attempt to compete with the MacAir and is rather late to the game.

          Everyone else is playing catchup, and while that is the case, Apple are in good shape.

          As for the continual "there is nothing left for Apple they are doomed" and the rest of the inevitable swill that follows, well, that is an indication of lack of imagination of the writer - in this case you Mark.

          Paris: Because she is provably imaginative!

    2. James Micallef Silver badge

      Re: Whoodathunkdit??

      Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Their valuation went from "outrageously over-valued based on a good layer of hype over teh top of the fundamentals" to "humungously valuable based on extremely strong sales of a number of extremely high-quality devices".

      Apple are a victim of their own success in generating ever-increasing profits, and of the general capitalist-market flaw that something is wrong if profits aren't continually increasing. If Apple's profits were stable and never increased at all for the next 20 years it would still be a fabulously successful company, but it's share price would take a beating.

      Fickle, Wall Street??

  3. localzuk

    Sheen off the Apple?

    There is really only one direction for their share price at the moment and that is down. They aren't releasing 'new' products - just minor tweaks to things they already make. In order to carry on growing, they'd need to release something groundbreaking again.

    I've been waiting for this to happen to be honest, as I knew it was coming.

    1. Manny Bianco
      Meh

      Re: Sheen off the Apple?

      But they are selling a lot of those products. Who *is* innovating? Samsung throw out a bunch of phones with whatever tech is available at the time, disregarding any idea of standards (wireless charging, NFC, for example).

    2. Bakunin
      Joke

      Re: Sheen off the Apple?

      It's nothing new. Sheen's been off his apple for a while now.

      1. James O'Brien
        Joke

        Re: Sheen off the Apple?

        Hey don't diss Sheen. Anyone with the ability to smoke as much rock as he has and not die is WINNING

    3. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Sheen off the Apple?

      Hmm. People have been saying Apple are about to gown downhill since before the iPad. You're going to claim credit because eventually your assertion a share price couldn't continue to rise at a crazy level forever came true? That'd be like claiming you were right about Windows being about to disappear when it stops being made in 2060.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sheen off the Apple?

      You should be an ANALyst with such insight.

  4. Steve Todd
    Stop

    The venomous Leach at it again

    Start with some news and then throw in a couple of unrelated "facts" (one of them is unprovable and almost certainly untrue - the iPad mini is still hard to get hold of, so it's unlikely to be selling badly, plus no quarter end results have yet included it).

    Why Apple's stock fell is likewise hard to determine. It's quite possible that its being engineered by some trading firm or other in an attempt to pick it up cheap before the quarter ends financials, but then the Leach couldn't possibly accept that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The venomous Leach at it again

      "the iPad mini is still hard to get hold of, so it's unlikely to be selling badly"

      only true so long as the "hard to get hold of" is due to high demand and not lack of stock in the local market

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The venomous Leach at it again

        Lack of stock - because they've all gone.

        I posted earlier about a friend whose store shifted almost 1700 in 2 days.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The venomous Leach at it again

      VHS recorders are hard to get hold of too - obviously because they are selling so well.

      :-)

      1. Ian 5
        Coat

        Re: The venomous Leach at it again

        There were a few hanging off DVD recorders in Comet at the weekend - £275 (and that was with the clearance discount).

        Wait... Comet... Oh yeah.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The venomous Leach at it again

      Exactly - something they are selling every single one they can make is not selling well - really. Try going into actual stores - in John Lewis people were 2 deep trying to have a go with the iPads - the Samsungs were marked as 'reduced to clear' - clear enough for me. Try the Apple online store - they can no longer guarantee to supply one pre-Xmas (as of a few days ago). If they could make more they would sell more.

      Practically every family I know either wants an iPad, has ordered an iPad or already has one - many have 2+ or will have on 25th December when Santa does his rounds. Schools from primary up are starting to use iPads - the pre-school my son is at said the kids are more used to touch / pinch than using a mouse and that's 3-4 year olds. Few years on and primary schools are rolling them out.

      Sales poor - me thinks not.

      1. .stu

        Re: The venomous Leach at it again

        John Lewis is at the posher end of the retail spectrum, and despite their "never knowingly undersold" slogan, I've never found their prices to be the cheapest and can always find anything they sell cheaper elsewhere.

        However, my experience in PCWorld just yesterday was that there is huge interest in low to mid-priced android tablets, and no interest in iPads. The budget-conscious general public, who have been getting into smartphones via cheap android offerings and now getting into tablets the same way. By this time next year, I expect the wind will have gone from Apple's sails and they will have only a small share of the tablet market, as they now do in smartphones.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The venomous Leach at it again

          Android, like Linux and Unix before it has one redeeming feature - it's free. Pretty much sums it up really

        2. Ivan Headache

          Re: The venomous Leach at it again @.stu

          I think your observation is true because few prospective Apple buyers would go to PCWorld anyway.

          My expereince of the Branch in Watford on Wednesday showed a lack of interest in any tablets - in fact the saff outnumbered the customers something like 4:1

          (PS I was there because they have some of the best deals on Powerline units at the moment)

    4. stanimir

      Re: The venomous Leach at it again

      It's quite possible that its being engineered by some trading firm

      I will spare the jokes about offering solutions one knows little about yet the traded volumes were way too low to engineered fall.

  5. 404 Silver badge

    Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

    "See? I told you so!" - Jobs was Apple, Apple was Jobs.

    There can only be One and The Steve ate any competition within the company long ago, leaving corporate drones and lawyers.

    IMO

    1. Manny Bianco
      Meh

      Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

      Steve Jobs left Jony Ive with more power than anyone else at Apple, for the reason that he has been instrumental in Apple's comeback.

      I just got an iPad mini from Apple. The queue for them was massive, and they are constantly running out of stock of all models.

      1. Philip Lewis
        Thumb Up

        Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

        Yes, they are pretty slick for the form factor. I was pleasantly surprised how good they were in use, as was TheReg reviewer, but I have the big brother so I don't need one and I prefer larger (older eyes).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        www.misco.co.uk have stock of the 32gb wifi + 3g models.

        but price.... Price is very very high

    2. 404 Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

      I'm killing myself here...

      You imagine the epic sword fights at Apple Headquarters? Lightning from different floors, viewing portals (windows) blowing out, and The Steve emerging triumphant? LMFAO!

      And I'm not even an Apple fan..

      ;)

      .....The coat with every Microsoft Service Pack ever released on thumbdrive (and that LOST.DIR folder Android insists on) in pocket

      1. 404 Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

        .....the turtleneck came to be after a close one..... ahhhhhhhhhh!

        SOMEBODY HELP ME! lmao!

        ;)

  6. eSeM

    Fashion?

    Apple kit has been fashionable over the past few years.

    But the problem with stuff that is fashionable is that it will always go out of fashion.

    1. Lallabalalla

      Re: Fashion?

      That's the beauty of being a fashion item - you keep selling the new ones to people who already have the old ones despite the fact there's nothing wrong with one they have.

      But I don't really subscribe to the view that Apple products are fashion statements for most people - since the people I know value longevity, ease of use and maybe TCO over always having the latest model. But I have no metrics for the rest of the world, this is only anecdotal.

  7. CCCP
    Black Helicopters

    Share price is not really sentiment

    I'm not defending Apple, however...

    I was sitting at a table with big cheese investor, think big Private Equity, at a dinner in San Francisco a while back and he talked about dark pools and their interaction with stock exchanges. Slightly over my head, but what stuck with me was the average holding period of a stock - which he said is driven by algorithms and measured in seconds...

    Anyway, the point being these sudden changes in share price are more to do with cascading software responses than human opinion.

    Still, I agree Apple has past their peak and valuation is likely to go from ridiculous to slightly less ridiculous.

    1. Philip Lewis
      Headmaster

      Re: Share price is not really sentiment

      You perhaps should read up on this. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading

    2. johnnymotel
      Holmes

      Re: Share price is not really sentiment

      really past their peak valuation?

      I thought APPL had a remarkably low P/E, the most common way to value a company.

      You could also argue that the share price is building a base from which to go higher.

      No, I personally believe it has more to do with the perception on the global economy. The West is still struggling to lift itself out of the doldrums, consumer spending is not 'bouncing back', living costs going up all the time etc etc. The East has yet to take the spending reins. So the big investors look around for shares that can take a hit, APPL being their favourite.

      Then again, maybe APPL is heading for the pits and my 2012 MacMini is the last computer I'll buy.

  8. Ryan Clark
    WTF?

    The threat from windows/nokia was cited as a threat? Really?

    1. Bugs R Us

      "The threat from windows/nokia was cited as a threat? Really?"

      Yes really. Market analysts and pundits try to take a long term view. While Windows 8 is not a threat today, it could well be a big threat in 2 or 3 years time. Anyone with a large position in AAPL might be thinking AAPL won't be worth as much in 2 or 3 years time and are cashing in now. Didn't Jony Ive sell most of his shares recently?

  9. NoneSuch
    Linux

    There is a solid difference between fanboi and investors. You are seeing who is more influential of the two.

  10. Andy Johnson

    Many reasons

    I think people are starting to finally see through what Apple is doing. Dropping the "All New iPad" so soon after launch and using software as a model differentiator. "You can only have Siri on an iPhone 4S, you can't have it on your iPhone 4" is a very poor way of selling products. The problem is they are releasing too many products now, so between each new hardware version that are no significant innovations. That is why they dumped the "All New iPad" to make the New All New iPad look better than the iPad2.

    Add to that they are still being draconian with their software approvals and yet they are still letting useless expensive and in some cases trojan apps out of the door.

    I love my iPhone, but i also love my Galaxy S3 and the freedom I have to install what I want on it.

  11. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

    Bugger, make that double bugger

    Didn't buy Apple shares on the way up

    Didn't short them from the peak.

  12. Rob
    Go

    More likely...

    ... the drop is reflecting that the market/investors probably don't have confidence in the current management structure and the current CE.

    Apple products still get made and still get sold, Android market share has been higher than Apple's in the phone biz for awhile now so I doubt it has anything to do with that. Windows Phone 8 still hasn't proved to be a threat (yet?) so I doubt competition is that much of a driving factor for the ever so minor drop.

    1. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: More likely...

      Problem is there's no insanely great cool new consumer item to 'one last thing' over.

      Apple could have make another pile of cash by opening up the iTunes store to small-scale video makers and making this a feature.

      The big media corps would have lost some of their power, fanbois would have loved the chance to get all fame-y and make some cash, and new software and new hardware could have appeared on the back of the plan.

      Instead we got a thinner iMac and a small iPad. Which are nice and all, but, er...

    2. Philip Lewis
      FAIL

      Re: More likely...

      You've never worked on "the street", have you?

  13. GotThumbs
    Boffin

    Another possible reason.....

    could be the impending increase in US capital gains taxes. Obama wants to screw anyone who has more than He thinks is "Fair". Anyone with money invested/saved should be worried since this US president has clearly stated he believes in "Redistribution of wealth". Since Apple has traditionally horded its cash and failed to provide dividends to its shares holders, this is the best time to sell most/all and take the current capital gains rate? People who have money, have it because they are active thinkers and look beyond one week, one month.

    US new motto will be changed from "Land of the free and home of the brave" to "Land of the not so free and do as Obama says"

    Sorry for the political rant, but its been frustrating not having a leader in the WH.

    Best wishes for the coming year for all nations,

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Re: Another possible reason.....

      Why not bring back George W Bush, or Bill Clinton but would you really call them "leaders".

      I can't remember the last time that the Good Ol Usa really had a leader...... Kennedy maybe but then again they shot him as soon as he bacame to much of a handfull.....

      This little song comes into my head - "like a puppet on a string" .tra la la tra la la.......

    2. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: Another possible reason.....

      A moment of silence please for all those poor CEOs and their cash hoards.

      What a tragedy that an entire generation of Randian heroes - like Apotheker, Fiorina, Ryan, Ballmer, Blankfein and co - will see their hard work and towering genius destroyed by some guy who realises they're really just dangerously self-important morons with entitlement issues whose contribution to the real economy is somewhere between zip, fuck all, and exterminate.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another possible reason.....

        Theyre not Randian at all. tbh not sure of all of them, but Ballmer certainly isnt. Rand was a big fan of Producers. People who create or enable the creation of stuff, and a big fan of the Free Market sorting the wheat from the chaff.

        Ballmer isnt producing anything and is taking a beating in the market for it. Microsoft is surviving simply on momentum. They could still be saved, but not while he's in charge.

        Jobs era Apple were more Randians than Ballmer-era Microsoft.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another possible reason.....

      Sorry to bust your bubble but ' People who have money, have it because they are active thinkers and look beyond one week' is absolute bollocks. There are very few self-made millionaires, it isn't easy to do. I would estimate that >90% of the 1%ers got their wealth from Daddy, who got it from his Daddy and they are the kind of person who will be most affected by capital gains tax. It is very easy to stay rich if you start rich.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dont panic

    He'll be back soon. I admit, its taking a longer than the 3 days it took the last one, but I'm confident he'll return. For it has been written.

  15. Alan Denman

    Mini is 'just for Xmas'

    Quite obviously an upgraded Mini comes out in March.

    Apple did not want to compete with the Retina iPad so they shrunk the better iPad 2.

    Problem is they never upgraded anything with that screen needing real improvement for the price point.

    I still think the sell off is hasty even if the iPHone 5 happens to be 18 months behind the trend.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

      So what if a new one comes out - do you whine at Samsung or other Android makers for improving their product / releasing more products. Apple are damned if they do or they don't - don't and Samsung release a 10.2" screen to beat Apple's 10.1" and people claim Apple are being left behind - do and you get accused of upgrading too often. The fact is Apple users do not upgrade at every new model - I suspect most on a 2-3 year cycle for phones and 2-4 years for iPads. The second fact is Apple stuff lasts longer - still have a 3GS that is 4+ years old and still supported / running iOS 6 - can Android say that of any / all it's phones?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

        Re the 3GS, released mid 2009, Thats still marketing. They were sold on contracts until late this year as the budget iPhone,. To make sure customers didn't get pissed, Apple had to keep updating them. Its still a crippled IOS6 due to the devices age.

        Android doesn't require old models to become budget, manufacturers release new models in all price ranges. Depending on your contract, you'll already have been offered a much newer Android handset for free as an upgrade.by now. If not, you need to be contacting your network..

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

          Re 3GS. No it's not. That is incorrect. You don't own one (I do). If you did you would know that despite a couple of useless functions (amongst others Siri which is largely useless outside USA) the device is better for iOS6 being installed. Safari is way faster and nothing else is slower. Take your bullshit somewhere else and enjoy your shite Galaxy Ace on Android 2.3. I am sure you can get a great contract on it. dork

      2. Philip Lewis
        FAIL

        Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

        "Android say that of any / all it's phones?"

        No

    2. Jonathan 29

      Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

      The retina won't happen for a while. The manufacturers are not making much profit on the complicated new mini screens and i doubt will commit to a new line until they have some margin.

  16. Solly
    Joke

    It's ok

    I sold all my apple shares to buy ones in facebook...

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    easy way to recoup $34Bn

    Re-label the iDevice version x as iDevice version x+1.

    You don't have to add any features (you can even make it worse if you want to) - or better still just the change the label on the box.

    All the fanbois will go out any buy it again.

    Repeat as necessary until the stock market is happy.

  18. Jason Hindle

    It's not like they're the first company to be over valued

    There are plenty of under valued businesses that don't have Apple's fame and profile. Still, I doubt anyone on Apple's Bored are going to be loosing any sleep over this. They're a sound business sitting on a pile of cash and making lots more. The poor schmucks who bought their shares at the top might be loosing sleep though. Especially if we're looking at a long term correction.......

  19. ThomH Silver badge

    Fairly valued per the profit-earnings ratio

    The price-earnings ratio is what the name says — the price of a share divided by the earnings for the share. Most companies hang out in the range 10—17, indicating slow trends in profitability or general stability. Higher values mean a company is overvalued or a significant jump in profits is expected, lower values mean the opposite.

    Microsoft's P/E ratio is 14.5. Google's is 21.7. Samsung's is 10.8. Apple's is 12.4. Facebook's is 27.5.

    So probably all that's happening is that the expectation of no further big iPad-style new products is being priced in. There's no reason to expect an ongoing dramatic fall at present.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    IT Angle

    Well..

    Reggie Middleton of BoomBustBlog has been calling Apple for at least a year (while Steve Jobs was still alive).

    And does a good job of explaining why Apple's share price is falling and will continue to fall..

    I find that reading investors & analysts blogs more helpful in understanding why a share price is falling that on a technology site... just saying!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well..

      So he was wrong 90% of the time then as the Apple share price was going up and up and yes up.

  21. TwoWolves
    FAIL

    Very poor analysis.

    Apple shares peaked in late September and have been on the way down since, baring some volatility on the way.

    If that had anything to do with the company's performance then why does the plot for Google shares have pretty much the same shape??

    Indeed, even the gold spot price has been on the wane since then.

    There is a reason…

    All these asset classes are "safe haven" instruments and with the financials in doubt since 2008 thanks to the crisis and now sovereigns in crisis thanks to the financials these "blue chip asset parks" have been more important than ever.

    So why the big sell-off now you may ask?

    Something wicked this way comes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Mushroom

      Re: Very poor analysis.

      "Apple shares peaked in late September and have been on the way down since, baring some volatility on the way.

      If that had anything to do with the company's performance.."

      In this case its to do with business model.

      "then why does the plot for Google shares have pretty much the same shape??"

      Its a Bear Market, lots of things are going to 'look' the same, however a bit of a differece between a 2% drop & a 7%

      "Indeed, even the gold spot price has been on the wane since then."

      Yeah you may want to speak to the lads over at GATA about that one.

      "There is a reason…"

      Quantitative Easing or QE? - the massive amount of tax payer backed money lent to gamblers er.. sorry banks at 0% interest so they could go out and buy buy buy with no risk to themselfs to help pump up the stock markets of the world while at the same time cause inflation.

      "All these asset classes are "safe haven" instruments and with the financials in doubt since 2008 thanks to the crisis and now sovereigns in crisis thanks to the financials these "blue chip asset parks" have been more important than ever."

      When has any stock ever been refered to as a Safe Haven?

      Safe Haven are normally Gold & other precious metals, and the Guilts & Bonds of nations who generally have sound money management (Switzerland, US etc [you at the back stop laughing]), And the system being what it is these Bond markets are now at historic highs, shouldnt be long till we start to see some of these babies pop.

      "So why the big sell-off now you may ask?"

      Well turn downs after QE is frankly common, it wont be long till one or more governments decide they need to do something to 'help the markets'

      "Something wicked this way comes."

      More QE, more Inflation.. rejoice peasants the end is nigh!

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Only a matter of time

    Guess investors have found out about laughable 'upgrades' planned for the 5s. The 5 is already a generation behind it's Android and Windows competitors and the Q1 2013 batch of Android phones will hit Apple's dwindling market share hard.

  23. graeme leggett

    How much to do with return on investment

    If Apple never pay out much in dividends, unless you sell your stock when its up you will not make quite the huge amount of boodle (apologies - been reading Raffles) as if you had put the money elsewhere.

    So if you want to get your money out to put it elsewhere you sell it but the buyer thinks its not worth that much to them for the same reason so they give you a lower price.

    Isn't that how market works?

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you want a company poised for massive growth

    look no further than Stardock, makers of Start8.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Holmes

      Re: If you want a company poised for massive growth

      They should make the most hay they can until Win8 SP1.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: If you want a company poised for massive growth

        >They should make the most hay they can until Win8 SP1.

        Don't you mean SP2 - remember XP was pretty much a waste of space until SP2.

  25. Roland6 Silver badge

    Apple losing its innovative edge?

    "The absence of any other big hitter devices on the horizon - a new Apple TV still seems far off - reinforces the view that Apple may be losing its innovative edge in the Tim Cook era."

    But when has Apple ever pre-announced a major new product launch? So there will be nothing on the horizon, you will just have to wait until Apple decide the time is right for them to release their next market defining gadget to the market. Unfortunately many investors (and fans) are impatient and have unrealistic expectations about what can be achieved. It will only be in 5+ years that we will be able to make any judgement on whether Tim Cook managed to retain and foster Apple's creativity or allowed it to wither.

  26. mrfill
    Happy

    Fashionable..... but

    In the words of Oscar...

    "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months."

    Looks like not much has changed in over 100 years.

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