back to article Microsoft's anti-Android Twitter campaign draws ire, irony

Microsoft has launched a repeat of a Twitter-based anti-Android marketing stunt that it first tried last year, but this year's campaign seems to have netted the software giant more than it bargained for. On Wednesday, Redmond's official Windows Phone Twitter feed at @WindowsPhone laid into Google's mobile OS for being …

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  1. LarsG
    Meh

    There are very few malware problems on Win phones, probably due to the fact that the numbers sold are so low hackers and malware writers don't see profit in it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      .. or there may simply not enough resource left to run malware as well. If I see just how hard it is to run pong on the device (according to the events I've seen), it's hard to believe it actually is able to run a self respecting virus of any description..

      Or was that Win 8? I'm getting confused - they are now so alike they're probably just as prone to infection (especially since MSE isn't exactly working either, quelle surprise)..

      I'd say BWAHAHAHAHA, but I'd be repeating myself.

      1. Ignition

        I'm an Android user through-and-through, having just bought my third phone (Nexus 4) and running an Android tablet. However, a friend of mine has a Nokia Lumia 800 and I have to say I was really impressed with it. I think the Windows Phone OS has some promise and seemed to work really well in my (admittedly limited) test of it. It's simple and there's definitely no tinkering available (and obviously the well documented lack of apps), but it seemed to do the job pretty well.

        This sort of badly implemented smear campaign really won't work for MS and I don't think the demographic that's likely to buy Windows Phone devices are going to be following them on Twitter en-masse.

    2. Mike Judge
      FAIL

      Microsoft REALLY desperate now

      Clearly it's all gone do badly wrong they have had to scrape the barrel and resort to this.

      Anyone buying a Windows Phone as a result of this campaign is a fucking moron.

      1. Mark .

        Re: Microsoft REALLY desperate now

        MS: Make a few anti-Android tweets.

        Certain other company: Agenda to destroy Android, by using software and design patents, already achieving court success at taking a billion dollars from leading Android companies, and banning Android products from sale.

        There's certainly desperation here - but it's interesting to compare the levels of desperation at work here. I would hope that no one's persuaded to buy a product by these tweets; and I hope that people are actively put off buying a product by court actions.

        1. Androgynous Crackwhore

          Re: Microsoft REALLY desperate now

          Mark, you seem to have overlooked the other prong to Microsoft's anti-Android racket: "We have loads of patents but ours are so clever we can't show them. Just hand over the Danegeld"

    3. Adam 1 Silver badge

      correction

      Absolute nonsense. There is NO Windows phone malware in the wild. I have checked with both of them.

    4. N13L5
      FAIL

      please Microsoft, go die in a Fire...

      I can't watch it anymore...

      Selfish and incompetent at once is a sad, ironic combination.

      It must be the great mental vacuum at Microcruft preventing its spontaneous combustion so far.

      Proof positive that retardation is not devoid of benefits.

  2. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    Windows

    Hackers would go after Windows phones...

    If only MS could convince the public to buy some!!

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

      A bit like Linux then.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        How?

      2. HollyHopDrive
        Linux

        Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        @JDX - really! Linux not being very popular then on consumer devices?

        I know you are probably trolling but underneath every android handset is linux. And every iphone and ipad essentially runs a version of *nix, not to mention the Mac. Or quite a lot of netbooks.

        Oh, and the raspberry pi, yes there is that. I think they sold a few of those too.

        Oh, and most consumer NAS drives. Oh, and quite a lot of routers.

        But no, nobody would pay for any of those would they?

        I'm assuming you are doing those posts to keep your gold badge. Don't worry about posting informed critique or comment, just put loads of comments in any article so you can keep your gold badge. Bless.

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

          Also most set-top boxes and TVs, and quite a few routers.

          There's a bit of Windows CE out there still, but MS don't recommend it for new designs.

          So these days pretty much every consumer "black box" device with a network connection is running a version of Linux, because it's cheap and lightweight.

          Industrial are mostly Linux or VxWorks - the latter is properly real-time, but modern hardware is so fast that's starting to matter less in real equipment.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Boffin

            Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

            "Industrial are mostly Linux or VxWorks - the latter is properly real-time, but modern hardware is so fast that's starting to matter less in real equipment."

            There is also an effort within the Linux community to gradually improve real time response for Linux. There goal has been to get their changes into the core distribution. Coupled with faster processors what's needed to give acceptable RT performance before you need to break out the specialist RT OS has been changing for years.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

            Also me, on two public DNS VPS servers I've just bought and built (CentOS).

            A die-hard Windows Server jockey.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

            You are showing Linux bias:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD#Commercial_Products

            And don't forget the internet has *always* been predominantly run by some sort of unix based device.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

          just put loads of comments in any article so you can keep your gold badge

          Oh dear. Did El Reg introduce badge envy now? :)

          From the original article:

          "This discretionary badge is awarded by Reg staff, and we are starting off with 10 people who have been very helpful - to us, through news tips and beta testing, for example - and to their fellow readers, through their posts." (emphasis mine)

          Don't worry about posting informed critique or comment, just put loads of comments in any article so you can stay envious of those who can actually read. Bless.

        3. El Andy

          Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

          @HollyHopDrive: So now we're saying that Linux is the #1 target for malware, thanks to Android? Ok, gotcha.

          1. JDX Gold badge

            Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

            @HollyHopDrive

            >>I know you are probably trolling but underneath every android handset is linux.

            Yes, that's why Android IS being targeted by malware. But Android is NOT Linux. Linux is Linux. Android is based on Linux. Linux is the thing you install on your desktop, which is NOT targeted because statistically nobody uses it for that.

            My badge has nothing to do with my rep.

            I guess reading isn't your strong suit since you've clearly messed up on both cases. And the hypocrisy is rather fun when you deliberately posted a "bash someone who attacked Linux" response in the knowledge it would attract all the OSS-sheep votes.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Vic

              Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

              > But Android is NOT Linux.

              Android *contains* Linux[1].

              > Linux is Linux.

              That's not an especially meanuingful statement...

              > Android is based on Linux.

              No, Android is built on top of Linux.

              > Linux is the thing you install on your desktop

              No, that's GNU/Linux. And Android/Linux is what you put on a phone.

              The distinction you're trying to draw is simply wrong.

              Vic.

              [1] Strictly speaking, Android contained a fork of Linux for a while. But the codebases are pretty much in sync again now.

              1. Mark .

                Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

                You are correct, but you're still in agreement that they aren't the same OS, rather it's the same kernel. He was arguing against the people claiming they are both "Linux", therefore both the same thing.

                1. Vic

                  Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

                  > He was arguing against the people claiming they are both "Linux"

                  He wasn't. He was claiming that Android isn't Linux. But it is - just not GNU/Linux.

                  Vic.

            3. bean520

              Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

              "Android is NOT Linux. Linux is Linux"

              Android is no more or less Linux than Ubuntu, RedHat, openSUSE. If you said GNU/Linux, id agree (sounds pedantic until you realise Android doesn't run the GNU software stack unlike destop distros)

              "which is NOT targeted because statistically nobody uses it for that"

              Microsoft's own published statistics put Linux higher than Apple Mac.

              http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple

            4. Law
              Mushroom

              Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

              "My badge has nothing to do with my rep."

              Or technical knowledge either apparently.

              1. JDX Gold badge

                Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

                You guys are so easy.

            5. Rick Giles
              Pirate

              Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

              You are sadly mistaken. There is a lot more Linux out there than the MS fanbois want to admit. I have 2 personal machines at home that run a MS OS and both of those are for the children so they can play the games that they like until the game makers can perform a cranial rectal extraction from MS and write for a better platform. Everthing else in the house, the 2 servers, mine and the wife's laptops, the Tivo's,the Blueray and the TV all run some form of Linux.

              I'm currently working on a POC at work to show that we can use Linux to conduct our business to free ourselves from the MS license shackles and have better control over what our data is doing.

              1. Tom 13

                Re: game makers can perform a cranial rectal extraction from MS

                Actually, on this one it's the Linux advocates who need to extract their heads from their rectums and recognize what MS has done right for game makers. I have a friend who did programming work on the Mass Effect games (I'm not personally into twitch games so I haven't played it, but the rest of my friends who are do seem to like it). For at least one project he was working on they started with the thought that they ought to develop it for Linux, just for the Coolness Factor(TM). What they found was a mess of unusable tools for game development whereas MS has fully developed suites that let them focus on programming the games instead of developing IDEs to program games. After several months of trying they gave up and went back to MS.

            6. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

              @JDX:

              " when you deliberately posted a "bash someone who attacked Linux" response in the knowledge it would attract all the OSS-sheep votes"

              Don't forget that OSS != Linux

              There are many rational OSS folk out there that have nothing to do with Linux or its fanboisms

            7. Tom 13

              Re: Linux is the thing you install on your desktop

              No Linux is installed primarily in two places: internet facing servers and consumer devices where a truly customizable OS is a requirement. And it pretty much dominates those two markets. I'd note that as far as malware is concerned, those internet facing servers are far juicier targets than the average desktop. They'll have hundreds/thousands/millions of users instead of dozens/hundreds you get with the typical Windows desktop.

              So the lack of compromised Linux machines is a testament to all three of it's strengths: better underlying architecture vis a vie built in security; better exploit found to patch release times; and last but not least seriously vigilant admins taking care of the stuff.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

          My Raspberry Pi runs RISC OS. A far more enjoyable desktop experience than that fugly dog-slow LXDE

        5. Mark .

          Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

          I assume he means GNU/Linux[*], and is talking about the debate about malware on desktop operating systems, of the GNU Linux OSs, versus Windows. Yes, chances are there's less malware on an OS that isn't used as much, and more on one that is, but that argument applies to the desktop as well as mobile - you can't have your cake and eat it. It is kind of amusing that this argument is dismissed in debates about desktop OSs, but the moment it crops up on mobile, people jump at the chance to moan about MS. (Disclaimer, I'm an Android user, and love it.)

          * - for all these years we thought that RMS was just being pedantic, but now that the most common OS using the Linux kernel isn't the same as the desktop operating systems we also call "Linux", he may well have had a point.

      3. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: A bit like Linux then.

        Ooh, think you hit a nerve!

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @JDX - Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        Sorry, mate, Linux can't be bought! You deserve each an every down vote for missing this point.

    2. Peter Simpson 1
      FAIL

      Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

      Windows, Linux, Macs, Android -- they *can* all get malware. What differentiates them is:

      - market share -- is writing the malware worth the effort?

      - defenses -- what tools are available to block/combat the malware?

      Microsoft (the market leader) have anti-malware software available but choose not to include it or enable it by default in their OS. If you're committed to fighting malware, why would you not ship your product with anti-malware tools installed and enabled by default?

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        >> If you're committed to fighting malware, why would you not ship your product with anti-malware tools installed and enabled by default? <<

        Maybe because they tried that with their browser and it ended up not being worth it?

      2. Manu T

        Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        "why would you not ship your product with anti-malware tools installed"

        Why should MCSFT hold your hand to do anything?

        Especially when there is a thriving market of 3rd party application development (including security apps).

        I think it's NORMAL for Microsoft (or any OS developer for that matter) to NOT supply certain software but allow third party developers to get (a small) piece o/t cake. Only in the case when third party software development is lacking THEN the OS-creator itself 'could' provide such (end-user) applications.

        I believe that OS creators shouldn't interfere to much with third party application development. Apart from providing help (with the necesary SDK-tools etc...) when asked for.

      3. El Andy

        Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...

        "Microsoft (the market leader) have anti-malware software available but choose not to include it or enable it by default in their OS. If you're committed to fighting malware, why would you not ship your product with anti-malware tools installed and enabled by default?"

        They do. Microsoft Security Essentials is installed and enabled by default in Windows 8.

  3. Lars Silver badge
    Linux

    "Get the facts" again

    I suppose. Perhaps it is cheaper to invest in the "smear" department than in the "development" department.

    Or perhaps it is like with insurance companies where one part of the company tell you how wonderful they, and you are, and when you have a reason to use your insurance, the other department tell you how wonderful they are and what a crook you are.

    1. P Saunders

      Re: "Get the facts" again

      i think they fired the idiot who came up with the win 8 launch party pack idea...

  4. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    FAIL

    What is it with Microsoft?

    I don't know of any other organisation suffering such a severe and persistent case of foot-and-mouth disease.

    1. Tyrion
      Linux

      Re: What is it with Microsoft?

      I think it's more a case of severe and persistent envy of companies like Google, Apple, and Amazon who lead the market instead of following it like Microsoft does with its "Me too" inferior products.

      1. Bing is a poor man's imitation of Google.

      2. Surface is Microsoft trying to emulate Apple's hardware business model, and Google's Nexus line. It's not working of course, because everyone hates metro and that fugly fisher price tile UI.

      3. Windows 8's walled garden approach is Microsoft copying Apple's iOS.

      I know Microsoft's demise has been predicted for years, but I honestly think this time it might be right. It's like they really are trying as hard as they can to self destruct. It certainly makes for entertaining viewing, and I have to say, it couldn't happen to a nicer company :)

      1. Aoyagi Aichou

        @Tyrion

        "[...]because everyone hates metro and that fugly fisher price tile UI."

        Yes, that must be why about 80% of people (people I know) who got a Lumia say "it's actually nice and useful". Metro on PC, well, that's another thing.

        1. Marvin the Martian
          Meh

          Re: @Tyrion

          You know 80% of the people that own a WinPho? Wow.

          You could try to find the fifth person, and have the whole set (royal flush?).

          1. Aoyagi Aichou

            Re: Re: @Tyrion

            @Tyrion

            "You know 80% of the people that own a WinPho? Wow."

            No, I know 100% of people I know. Few of them use a Win phone and 80% of the few is what I was talking about, hence the "(people I know)".

            @AC:

            I think the problem is (even considering what you've written) that Win8 seems very alien, especially on a Nokia device. What I meant is that it is very capable of getting its own slice of the (market) cake, if they market the bloody thing properly. And I'm saying this as a person that dislikes W8 :)

            @skelband:

            5 of them got it from their employer as a company phone, two chose them as a contract, one didn't know what was she going into, two reviewers, one is rich and curious.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Tyrion

          Until you try to do something useful. Then you realize that although the UI 'looks' nice the underlying OS is severely lacking (in features and capabilities).

          This is especially difficult for Nokia whom not only has to win the hearts of New customers but also to convert (die-hard) Symbian customers (whom are accustomed to a fantastic feature-set on Symbian including full bluetooth transfer, FULL 2-way call recording, FULL User-controlled multitasking, etc...).

          Also the "press" keep turning like the wind. yesteryear all sites including El Reg where praising WP7.x and now these same sites claim WP8 is 'bad'.

          This seriously affects the credibility of these sites. For me the only enjoyable thing on El Reg these days is BOFH. All the rest is IMHO all pro-Android propaganda. Which I find completely misplaced. As a UK/European tech site El Reg should devote more support for UK/European IT-tech. Things like RISC OS and indeed Symbian (which originated i/t UK). Android, iOS and WP8 are empty American products designed for mass-production. All bling and no substance.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          WTF?

          Re: @Tyrion

          > Yes, that must be why about 80% of people (people I know) who got a Lumia say "it's actually nice and useful". Metro on PC, well, that's another thing.

          Erm, well if they didn't like it, why would they buy it in the first place?

    2. Rattus Rattus

      Re: What is it with Microsoft?

      "I don't know of any other organisation suffering such a severe and persistent case of foot-and-mouth disease."

      What about the RIAA?

    3. Don Constance
      Happy

      Re: What is it with Microsoft?

      >any other organisation suffering such a severe and persistent case of foot-and-mouth disease.

      Well apart from our major political parties obviously.

    4. Z-Eden
      Boffin

      Re: What is it with Microsoft?

      Technically, in Microsoft's case, it's known as Foot-in-mouth syndrome...

    5. eulampios

      Re: What is it with Microsoft?

      What is it with Microsoft? Seriously, what is with them? Nothing... it's that same good ol' Microsoft!

  5. Bob Vistakin
    Linux

    Microsoft are doing mobile phone software now?

    Well I never. Next you'll be saying they have a search engine of their own, rather than throwing up a script kiddie style wrapper around a real one:

    http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-google-search.html

    1. RyokuMas Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft are doing mobile phone software now?

      Yawn. Same old link gets trotted out again.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft are doing mobile phone software now?

      @Bob - You've trotted this out countless times and get told that it's rubbish each time, so here we go, once again:

      A Google engineer put a couple of fake pages into the Google index. These pages were not indexed anywhere other than Google.

      The engineer then searched for these pages on IE, which had the bing toolbar installed.

      The bing toolbar sees the URLs that are visited and reports them back (anonymised) to MS.

      After a few days the new sites indexed at Google appear in Bing.

      MS did not copy results from Google, the Google engineer who said they did is seriously as he deliberately gamed the system to make it look like Bing copied Google.

      http://searchengineland.com/bing-why-googles-wrong-in-its-accusations-63279

  6. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
    Coat

    After that last post Peter Durfee will forever be known as...

    Durf Vader

    Badum tish. Mine's the floor-length black one with matching helmet

  7. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    #BallmerRage

    > Rudolph offered the tellers of his five favorite sob stories each a free Windows Phone.

    Any relation to Santa's sled?

    1. wowfood

      Re: #BallmerRage

      On that note, after the campaign was over and the 5 windows phones given away, microsofts 'sales' increased by 500%

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: #BallmerRage

        I'm still not sure if being given an obsolete phone as a prize is really a prize or a slap in the face. At the time of last droidrage stunt MS knew the winphone 7 line was dead... but I guess that tells us a lot about Microsoft and their pathetic scroogled campain and the reviving of the droidrage campaign just confirms it

        1. sabroni Silver badge

          Re: obsolete

          Obsolete? you mean like all the Android phones stuck on 2.3 because the manufacturers can't be arsed to upgrade them? But I thought MS pushed OS updates to all win phones? So surely obsolete would be better used to describe Androids update system...

        2. CCCP
          Devil

          Re: #BallmerRage

          @AC 09:54

          Or MS could do like that Daily Mirror Reliant Robin competition and have have first prize one Lumia and second prize two...

          Never having come across a single person with one, I have no idea if Lumias are as bad as Reliants, just that it would be funnier than droid bashing.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: #BallmerRage

        That's not "sales" but "userbase".

        Some marketeers would even go as far as calling this a massive increase of "Marketshare".

        At least it means 5 potential customers for Angry Birds on WP, isn't it?

  8. bdam
    FAIL

    #DroidRage

    Isn't #DroidRage what this guy suffered when he realised he should have used one instead of the fail he was forced to?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg

    1. Silverburn

      Re: #DroidRage

      I interpreted #DroidRage as being the irrational and disproportional ire you suffer for even daring to suggest Android is less than perfect, or there might be flaws.

      Cue QED downvotes here---->

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: #DroidRage

        Android isn't perfect. Neither is iOS, Symbian, Tizen or Windows Phone. BBX might be, given that QNX is amazing, but we'll have to wait and see on that. (Even with a "perfect" OS, if there are no apps and the vendor's name is mud, what hope is there?)

        The difference is: Android is open source, and Apple has a strong core of people who trust it. With Android, you aren't reliant on Google; if they Oracle us, we'll fork them.

        Microsoft's strong core of people who trust them is [insert phone sales here]. Non-zero, but not what it used to be, either. In fact, they've been so busy aiming for the middle of the bell curve with such laser precision, they haven't' realised that at some point, everyone belongs to the edges. By pissing off nearly every niche over the past few years, they've alienated entire generations of people.

        Microsoft doesn't have trust. It doesn't have apps. It doesn't have wow, it doesn't have buy-in.

        So it doesn't matter if Android is flawed. It doesn't matter if Windows Phone is superior, equal or worse. What matters is that at least three generations of individuals in today's markets are looking at the Microsoft brand name associated with Windows Phone and saying "no. Not again."

        When this happens – when your brand name is so strongly associated with things like malware, enthusiast antagonism, anti-competitive practices, lock-in, hostile licensing, anti-consumer scandals (plays for sure, does it?) and so forth – you've got bigger problems than the launch of one phone operating system.

        Microsoft is facing the reality that habitually screwing over their customers has created such broad animosity that they are now a legacy vendor. You heard me: Microsoft are a legacy vendor. They are going to have a miserable time entering new markets. Not because they aren't technically competent, but because of how they have treated customers. They need an image reformation, and they need that soon.

        No new interface – Ribbon, Metrololo or otherwise – can cover up the urgent need for a massive change in corporate culture.

        Microsoft may have the world by the balls, but then, so did mainframe vendors not so long ago. So did Novell. So did RIM. IBM still sells mainframes. HP still sells Itanics. Novell still authenticates users and RIM still pushes email. Yet to call any of these vendors anything but legacy in these markets is insane; they don't have customers, they have hostages. Microsoft is no different today.

        Windows RT, Server 2012 (hyper-V + storage) and Windows Phone are all excellent products. Windows RT is a top notch tablet platform that deserves serious consideration. Server 2012 can go to toe to toe with VMware. Windows Phone has consistently proven to be capable, fast and have great battery life.

        So what is holding back explosive adoption? Nobody wants to play with Microsoft any more. They are just tired of getting treated like a prostitute whose loyalty is assured by their substance dependence. Microsoft expects that they can slap us around and we'll crawl back up the steps the next morning, looking for a hit.

        They have treated us like this for so long that you would have to be out of your right mind to want to marry yourself to them in a new market.

        Microsoft is a fantastic organisation populated by some of the smartest people on the planet. They are capable of amazing innovation and technology leadership, not simply following others. They have demonstrated this over and over again, even in their newest line of products.

        That isn't enough any more; there are others that can do this too.

        If Microsoft wants to succeed, they need a "mea culpa" moment. Where they admit the sins of the past, make the changes required to win back consumer, small business and enterprise loyalty; they need to undertake some dramatic steps to polish their tarnished corporate image.

        They can be replaced. They are being replaced. One Android phone, iPad, VMware licence, and Google Apps subscription at a time.

        1. druck Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: #DroidRage

          Well done Trevor, the most astute comment I've read on a smart phone story in quite a while. Thumbs up.

        2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

          Re: #DroidRage

          they don't have customers, they have hostages.

          You know, I'd upvote your post a gazillion times, just for that single line. Mind if I borrow that?

          Oh, and as for a mea culpa for the past: ain't gonna happen, if for no other reason that it could re-launch investigations..

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: #DroidRage

            It isn't mine to give; I cannot claim credit for a clever turn of phrase which isn't mine. It's an oft used phrase traditionally directed at Oracle. I've adopted it to refer to any vendor that remains relevant only due to lock-in, not customer demand for the quality of the product or its accompanying levels of service.

        3. El Andy

          Re: #DroidRage

          @Trevor_Pott: "If Microsoft wants to succeed, they need a "mea culpa" moment. Where they admit the sins of the past, make the changes required to win back consumer, small business and enterprise loyalty; they need to undertake some dramatic steps to polish their tarnished corporate image."

          Thing is, if you actually pay attention, they already did that about five years ago. Meanwhile Google are heading more and more in the direction of late-eighties, early nineties "evil" Microsoft. In a few years, when Google are being hauled through the courts for anti-competitive practices which make Microsoft look practically saintly, the fanbois are going to be feeling a bit silly.

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: #DroidRage

            @El Andy: You are correct. They had a mea cupla moment, followed by strong commitments to open source, fixing Vista with Windows 7 and other such things. They were starting to look like "the good guy" there for a while; I was one of their loudest champions.

            Then they pissed it all away.

          2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

            Re: #DroidRage

            In a few years, when Google are being hauled through the courts for anti-competitive practices which make Microsoft look practically saintly,

            On the privacy front, that is already starting to happen in Europe..

            1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

              Re: #DroidRage

              @Fred Flintstone: aye; and Google's hubris has caused it trouble in the US, Mexico, and Brazil as well. If rumours are true, Canada may join the party soon, too.

              Microsoft is not alone in making bad choices.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @Fred Flintstone - Re: #DroidRage

              I notice a slight disconnection here. In arguing about Google anti-competitiveness you're pointing to privacy policies issues. While Google can be grilled for sure because of their land grabbing attitude regarding privacy, Microsoft and pals will have to work harder to convince the courts that Google search is anti-competitive. There are some big problems they will have to overcome : Google can't force people to use their search services and also Google can't force websites to allow to be indexed by them exclusively. There's nothing like "this site can be searched in Google only".

              1. El Andy

                Re: @Fred Flintstone - #DroidRage

                @Ac 15:48. Remember when there was a paid-for product called Netscape. Then the big evil Microsoft came along and gave away a free version that was funded by their near monopoly on desktop computing in order to try and force everyone else out of the market and thus extend that monopoly into new markets? Didn't that make you angry? Now imagine if a few years down the line some big advertising giant came along and dumped a free phone OS onto the market in an attempt to push out the paid-for competition and thus extend their advertising revenue from their near monopoly on search into a new market. Do you really think that's different?

                1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

                  Re: @Fred Flintstone - #DroidRage

                  He actually does have a point, though - I went slightly off track there because I was more looking at the pervasive EU law breaking than the anti-competitive activities which I consider a side effect rather than an deliberate aim.

                  In my opinion, Google created Android not as a competitive activity per se, but as a route to grab mobile market share because it wanted that user data. They have already publicly admitted that Android devices replace the Streetview Wifi sniffing (which implies that that wasn't nearly as much of an "accident" as they claimed). Furthermore, you cannot use Android unless you either furnish it with a Google logon (which means you agreed to their T&Cs) or hack it, which immediately raises questions about it being as "Open" as it proclaims itself to be, but I digress.

                  The only way to crack an already saturated market is either do something very new (which is what Apple did with its then groundbreaking UI) or something very cheap (which is what Android originally was, building on more or less the same principles that Apple worked out, but with the locks removed because screening meant accepting responsibility for content). Add some "Open Source" sauce to the "do no evil" meme and presto, it started to suck in developers and customers alike.

                  That that it competed with others was IMHO not a primary goal. Of course, the result was the same, but laws are about intent, and as much as I dislike Schmidt, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

        4. RyokuMas Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: #DroidRage

          This is probably one of the most balanced, objective and rational comments I've ever read.

          Zealots, take note - post the same old vitriol, trot out the same old links and all you'll get is ridicule. Construct a well-formed argument that takes in multiple viewpoints and defend it rationally, and you will be respected.

          Trevor_Pott - I salute you, sir.

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: #DroidRage

            @RyokuMas a momentary lapse, I assure you. I'll try not to make a habit out of it.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ahh bless

    Both sides sound a lot like children.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Both sides"?

      There is no "both sides" -- this is a unilateral smear campaign.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Both sides"?

        So the replies shown in the article are what?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Replies?

          The trash talking is coming from the marketing department of Microsoft, a $74bn software company. The replies are coming from whom? Google? Samsung? HTC? No... the only response to this misinformation campaign is coming from a handful of sad Twitter followers, hardly the other side of a conversation.

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            "Handful of sad Twitter followers, hardly the other side of a conversation."

            Yeah, "consumers," those sad fucks. Like "the people who buy things" should have a voice.

            Pfffft.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Handful of sad Twitter followers, hardly the other side of a conversation."

              And again - you on fire today.

              The Reg should reprint your comments on this article as an article in itself.

              You really touched a button for me on what it is about Microsoft - all those years of buying new hardware just to be able to run the bloody new version of windows, which we had to have because the last version never worked properly...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still at it then

    Goooooood mmmmmmmmmmorning MMMicrosoft... I love the smell of FUD in the morning.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Still at it then

      Goodle do this. Apple do this. People involved in FOSS do this, the only difference is that nobody is listening to them.

  11. Khaptain Silver badge
    Devil

    Bitter and dangerous people.

    The problem with most of the major companies today, MS, Google, Apple is that they all want a "large" slice of all the pies but when they dont manage they become bitter.

    MS : Smear campaigns because WinPho and W8 are not so popular.

    Google : Doesn't want to be outdone with the patents so swallows whole companies up.

    Apple : Small child attitude, if I can't have my toys then you can't have yours either.

    Publically it is a PR nightmare but at the same time, behind the scenes they are all working together.

    The public/consumers are simply being screwed on all sides.

    When you add the wealth of MS, Apple and Google together they easily exceed the budgets of a large percentage of the worlds Countries/Governements. There is something very wrong about so few having so much.....

    1. ChrisInAStrangeLand
      FAIL

      Re: Bitter and dangerous people.

      "The problem with most of the major companies today, MS, Google, Apple is that they all want a "large" slice of all the pies but when they dont manage they become bitter."

      That is a media narrative. It's a problem with hack journalists and the impressionable idiots who read them.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: Bitter and dangerous people.

      News flash: Corporations care more about profit than being nice guys. Film at 11.

  12. h3

    Anything as incomprehensible as those Twitter quotes are should be instantly ignored.

    What I like about WP7 on my Lumia 800 is there are no manufacturing defects that the OEM won't fix and the software works properly and the battery life is ok.

    If I couldn't have got a free dev account it would be less good though. (Quite a few minor trivial utilities that are useful that you cannot get without adware from the official store but you can freely download a xap to do the same thing from xda.)

    (Xperia Play convinced me to never buy another Sony product ever again - compass is a design defect - Nokia would fix it even if it meant changing the part in every phone that is worth a lot).

    LG phone build quality has never been good.

    I won't buy Motorola again after the Xoom. (Trivially easy for them to keep up with US GED wifi worldwide but they didn't).

    Don't like Touchwiz or Sense either so if I am going to get an Android phone it will have to be a Nexus made by someone I trust.

    What Android needs is lots of devices all running 100% stock Android. (With abgn wifi and micro sd slot's).

    The only differentiation needed should be build quality / hardware / speed / price.

    (The way MS stops OEM's from fscking up WP7 is great).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      some good points there

      Absolutely agree that the customer should at least have the option of standard android vs. vendor-"enhanced" - much as for Windows PCs it would be great to have a first-boot "don't bother with the bloatware" switch.

      I really don't understand the complaints about Android battery life, in the case of my Orange Monte Carlo it lasts for 9 days in "phone" mode and 1 day with wi-fi on. And has been reliable, non-crashy etc. (of course orange bloatware has been removed... just as I would do on a PC).

      1. Vic

        Re: some good points there

        > I really don't understand the complaints about Android battery life

        My HTC Desire has pretty crap battery life.

        My missus' Galaxy S2 is very much better...

        Vic.

    2. Ian Yates

      "LG phone build quality has never been good"

      If you're referring to the Nexus 4 here, I think that's a little unfair. Google take some control in the Nexus builds and I've seen nothing but praise for the build quality of the N4.

      Personally, I've always found Samsung to have the cheapest feel (certainly the SGS2 felt cheap and flimsy), but the SGS3 is supposed to be well made.

    3. 404 Silver badge

      <raises hand>

      Side Question: Who still uses wifi 'A" ?

      Slight observation/opinion: Motorola's phones are much better than their tablet efforts. Yes, I have a Droid Razr with ICS and No, I'm not telling that to anyone to brag on it, it works great for what's it is (overpowers my Acer A500 ICS tab in fact). I'd rather have my Blackberry Storm2*, updated of course, but I had to make a decision on viability during a 2 year contract. That AT&T BB Torch looked good, but somehow Verizon got the retarded version and AT&T's network sucks donkey balls in this region ->Bing, Bang, Boom, Android.

      ;)

      *I loved that phone, I take it out of it's original box now and again to fondle it. ->kiss my butt, it was a great phone.

  13. wowfood

    I bought a new PC with windows 8 installed, when I need to access it for work I have to go into it via teamviewer on my droid. Now it looks like I have a windows phone #DroidRage

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "today's biggest target" != "today's most vulnerable OS"

    A combination of the two is a problem, as demonstrated by a certain desktop OS. Every OS is susceptible to malware that infects by what is effectively social engineering. OS's that are infected by exploits are the real problem and the report doesn't say that about Android.

    "Today, the most common business model for Android malware attacks is to install fake apps that secretly send expensive messages to premium rate SMS services. Recent examples have included phony versions of Angry Birds Space, Instagram, and fake Android antivirus products."

    So basically people pirating apps from dodgy places. Nothing to do with Android vulnerabilities and no different to how jailbroken iPhones, Mac's, Windows and even Linux (if most software wasn't free on distro repositories) can get infected. I've not used nor played with Windows Phone, but if it can side-load applications or be rooted, then it too is just as "vulnerable" to this kind of attack.

    I used to like MS as a kid. Crap like this makes me sad.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      at least when something is installed on Android, you get advance warning of the things it is wanting permission to do (is this also true for side-loaded apps?). To install something on Windows one has to give it full administrative access to the machine.

      The system of Android permissions does need work (too many apps seem to want access to contact list etc.) and there is still the problem that many people don't even try to read and understand the permissions that are being requested. Almost all of the genuine whinges on the Twitter thing were people whose phone was messed up by junk they installed - or occasionally vendor-installed junk. Most of the others were complaining of a lack of Android updates.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        at least when something is installed on Android, you get advance warning of the things it is wanting permission to do

        This is actually one of the things I do NOT like about Android - maybe I had an old phone (Xperia) but my experience with denying an app access was that it simply did not install or stopped working, effectively brute forcing you to give permission for what sometimes is flat out questionable access. I personally don't call that permission management, that's blackmail.

        On the iPhone, an app will still install and work, just with limited functionality. If I tell TomTOM to keep its fingers out of contacts database it will still work, but I'll have to feed it addresses manually - my choice. Of course, if you deny an app critical resources it's not going to work (the aforementioned TomTom would be pointless without access to the GPS data), but it leaves ME in charge. Even post installation I can change my mind.

        I have no idea how things are on a Windows phone, anyone?

        1. pepper

          I think you can use LBE guard to have fine control about the acces a app has on a Android phone.

          No idea how well it works, I only used it on NITdroid(android 2.3 version I think).

  15. Mahou Saru

    I haven't had any malware on my Win7 box in ages...

    Well ever since I only play games on it and everything else is done on a separate Debian box :p

  16. RyokuMas Silver badge
    FAIL

    Oh dear, Microsoft.

    This is beyond ridiculous: it's tantamount to suggesting that because there are a number of terrorist attacks are carried out by those of a certain religion, everyone of that religion should be treated with suspicion, which achieves nothing except to alienate people and increase sympathy for the jihaddists.

    I mean, yes, there may be a point - how much iPhone malware is out there? Disregarding sales volumes, the walled garden approach is more secure. And while people are getting more tech-savvy, for the most open (and therefore easily targetted) platform to not only be the most popular, but also actively defended by some with almost religious fervour can only be a malware writer's dream come true.

    But this is not the way to win friends and influence people, Microsoft. Your credibility is already hanging by a thread - stop insisting on trying to cut it! Surely you can do better than this.

    1. SteveK

      Re: Oh dear, Microsoft.

      "But this is not the way to win friends and influence people, Microsoft. Your credibility is already hanging by a thread - stop insisting on trying to cut it! Surely you can do better than this."

      Ooh, that sounds like a new phone app - 'Cut the Credibility'

    2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: Oh dear, Microsoft.

      which achieves nothing except to alienate people and increase sympathy for the jihaddists

      Excuse me? The one most certainly doesn't follow the other. Just because someone pisses you off doesn't immediately push normal people into placing IEDs around town..

      1. RyokuMas Silver badge

        Re: Oh dear, Microsoft.

        which achieves nothing except to alienate people and increase sympathy for the jihaddists

        If someone is up there ranting about the evils of a particular group, then said group starts persecuting you, there's a chance that you might end up persuaded that the ranting person is right. A jihaddist does not have to "place IEDs" - they just have to believe that jihad is the right cause.

        That said, the amount of vitriol I've seen against the WP, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the more hardline Android fanatics actually did try to develop some kind of malware for the WinPhone, just so they could say that it was insecure...

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  17. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Microsoft make insecure systems by design

      Actually, Windows 8 is not all that insecure. Even Internet Explorer 10 is pretty damned secure. Applications coded to take advantage of the newest security features are pretty damned hard to exploit; the issue remains support for legacy applications. By allowing those applications to remain a part of the ecosystem, they remain a vector for infection.

      The operating system itself however? Pretty damned secure. Secure enough to go toe to toe with Linux or OSX. The browser has so far fared well against Chrome and Firefox.

      You can bitch about a lot of things regarding Microsoft and Windows, but they've cleaned up their act with regards to security. Credit where it's due.

      1. eulampios

        @Trevor_Pott about Win8

        So no need for AntiVirus anymore? Every link is okay to click, email can be opened without fear of having a "bad " attachment, usb stick is safe to insert in a PC? Win8 has a "sudo," so that the first user is automatically made an admin? Finally, It doesn't have anything to do with the previous iterations of Windows code-wise?

        At last Microsoft! Or not?...

        1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

          @eulampios

          You're goddamned right.

          Don't run any legacy software that doesn't conform to the latest security specs. 64-bit software only that uses the latest ASLR and so forth. That includes 64-bit Internet Explorer.

          In those circumstances, using only what ships with the OS - and Windows 8 certified 64-bit applications - not running as administrator and with UAC turned on...you're goddamend right I'd click around the internet with imputiny. I'd cheerily run with all sheilds down, and wouldn't run into a problem.

          Just in case however, Windows 8 comes with anti-malware baked into the OS.

          As well, back to prying this mind-wrecking virus out of this RHEL system. I fucking hate people who don't update their CMSes...or Apache...or run with SELinux off....or...wait, which OS am I talking about?

          Aw, fuck it.

    2. El Andy

      Re: Microsoft make insecure systems by design

      @Eadon: "Windows is architected to be insecure. It was designed to provide conveniences to the user, in such ways that it is also convenient to viruses."

      That's quite possibly the most ridiculous statement you've ever posted. Though there are a fair few close competitors.

      "Anonymous Cowards (shills usually) accuse me of not liking Microsoft but it's actions such as this that mean that I draw their dirty business tactics to the attention of others"

      Yes, I'm sure you were at the front of the queue berating Apple for using exactly the same "dirty business tactic" in their 'I'm a Mac, I'm a PC' adverts. Oh, wait, you weren't....

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft make insecure systems by design

          @Edon: A few comments:

          Learn the difference between Windows 1,2,3.x line and Windows NT line.

          Many linux distributions allow you to logon as root by default, if you do you're an idiot, but it doesn't make linux itself any more or less secure, just that particular install. It's the same for Windows and Administrator access.

          Windows has ACLs, so it won't just run any file of .exe extension, unless you let it. By defualt .exe files downloaded from the Internet aren't executeable.

          IE is no longer built into the OS.

          User and system data isn't mixed, except by bad users or bad programs (just like Linux) just because it is sometimes on the same filesystem doesn't mean it's not separated.

          The GUI isn't built into the Kernel, the graphics subsystem is built into the Kernel, it's rather different.

          1. eulampios

            @AC and few comments

            Many linux distributions allow you to logon as root by default

            Many (more user friendly, more desktop oriented) have sudo by default and disallow login via root. MS has no sudo equivalent, runas is more similar to su.

            The GUI isn't built into the Kernel, the graphics subsystem is built into the Kernel, it's rather different.

            What's built into it, what isn't? (What is built into the one win8 RT managing to use more than 10GB from start?) Do you have a link of Win NT git I could try cloning, checking to play with different build config options?

            Windows has ACLs, so it won't just run any file of .exe xtension,...

            Someone asked me why is that jar file can't execute in Ubuntu, while you doublick it, while there is no problem in his Windows?

            Quite a few people around me using different versions of Windows complain about malware infection (sometimes they can't tell if this is malware or driver/OS bug). I, on the other hand, have quite a few friends run Ubuntu (Mint and other distros), haven't heard any similar complaints any of them. Tell you what, not all of them have PhD's.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @AC and few comments

              Once again eulampios demonstrates that he has poor knowledge of Windows, but this doesn't stop him from slagging it off.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft make insecure systems by design

      Wow! You got in a pre-emtive shill accusation, you're on form today.

      For the record - I don't care if you like MS or not, I do care when you trot out complete rubbish about either Windows or Linux to support your worldview. I am a user of both OSes and I just don't get why some people feel the need to this tribalism in support of a bit of software.

  18. mIRCat
    Coat

    Poor Microsoft

    This is not the #droidrage you're looking for.

    I'll get my coat...

  19. Great Bu
    Stop

    Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

    Increasing malware attacks are just a sign of sucess, nothing more. Malware attackers want to hit as many targets as possible with their attack so they naturally aim them at the biggest markets.

    The more users of a particular OS (or app or programming language or whatever) there are, the more malware will exist for it.

    Whatever evengelists for any particular system may think*, there are security flaws in all OS's - any such system is invariably a compromise between security and useability and vulnerabilities are a result of that.

    * If you dont regard yourself as an evangelist, ask yourself why you are about to post a fervent denial to this post pointing out how <insert OS name here> is inherently better than <insert other OS name here> despite the fact that malware exists for all OS's of any consequence.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

      Actually, Google made some shitty decisions that made malware for Android far easier. It's not remotely so easy on Jelly Bean, but Gingerbread still has half the active market. The lack of vendor commitment to upgrades, Google's complete inability to force long-term support and their unwillingness to police the market have all conspired to make Gingerbread Android devices the pre-SP2 Windows XP of the smartphone market.

      I love Android and all (HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy Tab, SII and Note II, ASUS Transformer) but you know what, Google Done Fucked Up.

      Like Microsoft, they learned from this, and made changes. Windows 8 is a very secure operating system whose vulnerabilities are largely tied to backwards compatibility. Android is no different. Microsoft had the excuse of "the internet not being a thing" when they designed their OS.

      Google had Microsoft's failure as a shining example of what not to do. Google really didn't have any excuse, but they took the easy route out anyways. Shame on them.

      That said, Google fixed the flaws and got the security thing underway in a serious way in two years. It took Microsoft the same number of decades.

      Corporations are kind of universally crap. The question is: which company is least likely to screw you now and in the medium term. More importantly, is there a clear exit plan in case they screw you in the long term?

      Customer loyalty is customer idiocy. Every company – Microsoft, Google, or even Apple – should have to earn our purchase. Each and every time.

      That means more than technology. It means a culture of listening to customers. It means not locking customers in. It means that you have to embed the idea of succeeding on your own merits into your corporate culture. "Being the best" is no longer adequate. The bleeding edge just isn't relevant when the middle of the curve is "good enough."

      You need to obey Whaton's law if you want to succeed: don't be a dick.

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

        Wheaton's law, even. Apparently I am immune to Reddit's Law: Herp, don't Derp.

      2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

        Every company – Microsoft, Google, or even Apple – should have to earn our purchase. Each and every time.

        You're in fine form today - who switched on your quotable statements engine? :)

        1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

          Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

          @Fred Flintstone some days I dont' give a rat's ass who is reading what I write. Then I roll my face around on the keyboard and what I really think pops out. It's been a tough week, so my personal (rather than my objectively researched, carefully unbiased) views are showing through the cracks...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

      Increasing malware attacks are just a sign of sucess, nothing more. Malware attackers want to hit as many targets as possible with their attack so they naturally aim them at the biggest markets.

      The more users of a particular OS (or app or programming language or whatever) there are, the more malware will exist for it.

      Actually, no (yes, I'm ignoring your disclaimer :) ). You're ignoring at least one vector: how EASY it is to infect a platform. Malware only exists if it works, and the "successful OS" meme fails badly when you compare exposure. The only malware that works on all platforms alike is the trojan, because that simply asks the user to install it (disguised as something else) and thus has that user's privileges to work with (the Irish virus is the most humorous example of that). This is why strictly permission based mechanisms don't work for the average user who has been trained by stupid installation routines to click "OK" as fast as those boxes appear, which is also how those %&ç* toolbars get everywhere.

      However, when it comes to drive-by infections (the "corr blimey, see Britney Spears naked" type), Microsoft has only recently cleaned up its act a bit. This is also visible in the patching behaviour: Microsoft didn't start Patch Tuesday because it wanted to help administrators, it started that because people started to ask just why they had multiple updates every day. If you look at just how much of MS Windows is updated over a couple of months, you can see that you have effectively downloaded the whole installation several times over. As matter of fact, the lack of frequent patching seems to be the first thing people notice when they move to OSX, the sheer usability of the platform comes *much * later because they have to get used to a few changes first (I personally liked having the menu with the application instead of the "Mac" way, but I digress).

      Last but not least, anti-virus is a (bad) fix for fundamental issues. The OS itself should be secure, not depend on some 3rd party add on. MSE has recently been shown up as not that effective, and even if you consider that survey a tad biased it makes sense: it's not like they have a very good track record..

      (this post got a bit longer as planned, but I get sick and tired of the same old MS spiel. I've used MS products since MS-DOS 3.1, and they never stopped bullshitting since they discovered that it was better to sell "the next version will have that solved or has that driver" hope instead of delivering a decent product. "Good enough" isn't good enough for me.).

      1. El Andy
        Boffin

        Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

        Last but not least, anti-virus is a (bad) fix for fundamental issues. The OS itself should be secure, not depend on some 3rd party add on.

        This is a common misconception, but still fundamentally wrong. Anti-malware software provides a 'last line of defense' against a user deliberately running software which will ultimately cause them harm. It is an essential component of security on any system that doesn't require pre-approval of all running code (in which case you're effectively running the malware scan in advance) because no matter how many barriers you put in place, a user can be tricked into passing all of them if they think what they're running is something they want. Google the 'dancing bunnies' problem.

        1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

          Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

          Anti-malware software provides a 'last line of defense' against a user deliberately running software which will ultimately cause them harm

          That's not what anti-virus on a Windows platform is for. It has taken to Windows 7 before you could take a default Windows install near a raw Internet connection and not have infected in well under an hour. That problem never existed for a default OSX, Linux or *BSD installation. The deficiencies in the platform were so bad that it spawned an entire industry which has yet to gain any serious traction on any other platform (slightly mistaken IMHO - I only consider something secure if I have the means to prove it, which is why my MacBook gets a scan every week).

          However, a small caveat is required: I have been told that later versions of Windows such as Windows 7 are MUCH better by the owner of a well known anti virus company, and he's one of the few I trust in this business. There *may* thus be hope after all..

          1. Great Bu

            Re: Just a sign of (sales) sucess....

            But back to my original point, though, the only reason those older windows systems would get infected in an hour if left unchaperoned in 'club internet'* was because they were so much more popular than OSX, Linux et al, not especially because of some greater secureness inherent in those other OS's.

            Essentially, I don't buy the argument that there was no way to create malware that could infect those other OS's in the same sub-hour timeframe as the windows devices, just that there was not a big enough potential target base to make it worth the while of the malware creators.

            Granted, as software becomes more sophisticated and OS creators are prioritising security higher than before they have become more secure overall.

            I would posit that the sucess of a particular OS is a direct driver for how quickly it's security level has increased as this is the driver for how much that security is tested, not any inherently greater security attached to one OS over any other.

            For example:

            - Windows, the most popular OS for years, has increased massively in security but over the course of those long years.

            - OSX is only a bit more secure than it's previous iterations as it is only a bit more popular than it used to be.

            - Android is suddenly much more secure in very recent builds than it was only a few years ago but it's popularity is suddenly skyrocketing so it has to make big security leaps.

            *Drinks are free....

  20. Miek
    Linux

    He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

    1. JetSetJim Silver badge
      Coat

      throwing stones...

      Doesn't matter for Microsoft, all the panes in their house shattered a long time ago. Bit drafty in there...

  21. Davie Dee

    good to see the demographic of this site hasn't changed at all in the last few years.

    There's an interesting double irony here as well, yes MS doing stupid marketing ploys like this is an irony considering the issues Windows XP has.

    But the second irony is that all the Android folk kicking up a fuss about MSs crap marketing strategy and how below the belt it is, are doing just the same and have been since day one, one rule for one and one for another?! hmmm.

    So yes, Go to any WP forum or thread an its like a magnet for Trolls, it just draws people in for no other reason then to bitch about it, as does any MS news stories on here and many of these folk only talk about how wonderful *insert other OS name in here* is, and how shit all things X are, perhaps the lesson here is that everyone should just shut the f**k up about what the THINK is the best phone in the world ever and realise that everyone has individual tastes and needs and all phones regardless of their background and origins have pros and cons.

    It saddens me that many of the people on here, many self proclaimed IT pros, feel the need to completely rubbish anything other than what they believe is right, perhaps we should just remove all competition for everything would that make you happy?

    These are the facts, brought right down to the basics.

    All OSs regardless of platform have pros and Cons

    All OSs AND platforms have target users in mind

    All OSs AND platforms may or may not suite any one user

    ALL of you have an opinion on what you think is best overall, but people looking for answers don't give a rats arse what you THINK is best they want facts or as close to as possible.

    for example, Android is the most customizable MODERN phone OS - fact

    WP has the most secure app store - fact

    Android has the most Apps - fact

    unmodified WP has minimal malware - fact

    If anyone says anything even remotely for MS or against Android on this site it gets down voted to hell and back - fact

    we can go on for hours, but can we at least try and leave subjective comments out and be respectful of the facts, down voting someone for saying something that's true but doesn't conform to your own opinion or bias is infuriating, we are better than this people!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It started off well, but then you got to *cough* "facts" *cough*.

      Here's lesson one on any site: if they allow you to add HTML, provide references that underpin your "facts" - the search alone would have hopefully made you reconsider to place some of these things up as "fact", especially if you don't consider relevance alongside it.

      Let's take the WP ones:

      WP has the most secure app store

      unmodified WP has minimal malware

      That's the same as VW bringing out a new model and proudly advertising that it has never been involved in a car accident. It's FAR too soon to make statements like that - as a matter of fact, you may be right. If the platform doesn't take off ("does a Zune") no malware author or store hacker is going to bother. That gives you the equivalent of a council house with no drapes and a broken lock: easy to break in, but nobody is going to bother.

      So, *almost* an interesting post.

      1. Davie Dee

        but it is, I see what your saying but both The Apple and Android app stores can be used to download apps for nothing, since MS encrypted the app store not a soul has been able to hack paid apps, there are ways and means of taking try before you buy apps and keep them on trial mode but paid for apps are locked up tight. Its actually a very annoying development for several ethical reasons but the few always ruin it for the many I suppose. In terms of malware I think there was only one thing a while back but that was patched in the mango update

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For a tech site, the opinions of the commentards scares me.

    It's unbelieveable just how one sides and blinkered you techies really are!

    Definately not considered opinions, just bollox.

    EPIC FAIL ladies and gentlemen.

    1. durbans

      Careful...

      Wow, don't be too sensible round here, it doesn't go down well. Makes me wonder how many commentards actually work in IT as if they did you would expect some rational thought to be involved in their tech opinions. My guess is most of them are the type who work in an office and reckon they could manage the whole IT infrastructure because they've set up a NAS drive before and rooted/jailbroken their phone.

      Everything has pros and cons but people on here are too blind to see that and can only look at the world in black and white.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "For a tech site, the opinions of the commentards scares me.

      It's unbelieveable just how one sides and blinkered you techies really are!

      Definately not considered opinions, just bollox.

      EPIC FAIL ladies and gentlemen."

      People who live in borderline-illiterate and apparently inadequately medicated houses shouldn't throw stones. That is all.

    3. Comments are attributed to your handle
      Megaphone

      @Obviously

      What scares me is that you have a silver comment badge. Quantity over quality no doubt played an important role there.

  23. John H Woods Silver badge

    A lot of Malware is a billing problem

    I don't worry about premium SMS or calling because I run my phone as PAYG. Every month I spend 15 on a 300min, 3000sms, ayce data. Any attempt to dial a premium number or send a premium message then fails because they are not covered in that bundle. Surely it's not beyond the bounds of possibility to have contracts that have similar properties?

    How about a core-level setting for android that meant that premium numbers require user confirmation, regardless of whether they are initiated by a user or by an app?

    I realise there are other ways to compromise a phone, but I'm pretty sure we aren't yet even doing the easy things that would make life harder for the malware creators.

  24. Ilgaz

    It can't even run malware

    Malware needs a proper operating system with well defined multitasking characteristics and a stable well known kernel.

    Operating system should also worth taking very severe criminal and sometimes life threatening risk, it must be popular.

    So, you are safe win phone users.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where is Doc Brown hiding, then?

    I'm sorry, the 90s called, they want their FUDding Microsoft back.

    I hoped that they'd outgrown this tawdry crap now they were no longer an unchallenged monopolist, and actually need to be liked, now? Maybe I am a bit thick, but I fail to see how such tactics are anything other than self-defeating. Weak.

    I suspect that the WinPho devs are probably facepalming somewhat, after all their hard work, being made to look like a bunch of twats by marketing. Again.

  26. Wardy01
    WTF?

    I have both

    I have a samsung galaxy s3 and a HTC HD7 windows phone.

    My experience is that each time I get an android update stuff that used to work either stops working or gets worse.

    Signal strength has become a really problem in jellybean and I have gone through 3 galaxy S3's so far thinking it's a hardware fault.

    My network provider is now basically saying stuff like "it's not our problem blame sansung or android".

    With microsoft, fair enough they don't always get stuff right but usually when I get an update stuff only gets better not worse.

    To follow my android experience I've had a few technical hiccups and the result has usually been (from the same network) "oh no worries we will just give you a new working one" or "just download this patch from microsoft".

    As a software developer I have to say i'm used to seeing people bash Microsoft for trying to give the consumer a good deal (internet explorer bundled with windows anyone?) and it's about time Microsoft said "£$^! YOU" to the companies that have been sh*tting on them for years with legal suits just because they were the biggest contender in their field.

    I don't condone this clear cut "we are just gonna b*tch at you for the hell of it" approach but to be fair ... it's about time someone at Micorsoft snapped.

    Again in my developer role, I see people moaning that Microsoft craps on the little guy but I haven't seen that, the MSDN has been a solid source of community and really useful information since the release of .Net some 12 ish years ago and still remains strong, people tend to complain when Microsoft follows the rest of the industry and does something that breaks their old legacy crapware because Microsoft is usually the first to bend to consumer will and "suck it up" leaving stuff in that really needs retiring.

    I'm positive about what Microsoft has to offer overall but Microsoft is now moving in to a field they are not the big guy in so sure there's gonna be tension.

    The thing that cracks me up ... I was watching a youtube video about 10+ years ago which surfaced recently (sorry I don't have a link to hand) where Bill Gates was trying to push tablet devices to the world ... way ahead of everyone else ... and yet the likes of apples are the gods for "being the first to do it"??? really ???

    Apple is company full of designers, google is full of data boffs, Microsoft has long been the core of most business solutions in business, and now is trying to get more involved with consumers.

    Lets face it ... consumers love a rant it give's them something to talk about ... so in a way the campaign worked did it not ... it got people talking about them (again)?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I have both

      "seeing people bash Microsoft for trying to give the consumer a good deal (internet explorer bundled with windows anyone?)"

      That's a GOOD deal !?

  27. Jim 59

    Twitter campaign

    ...not a great idea since Microsoft are the inventors (or enablers) of the computer virus

  28. Lee Dowling Silver badge

    Ghandi anyone?

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    I'd say bashing your competition over something that you've historically failed at myriad times (sometimes due to knowingly making things "easier" rather than "safer") probably puts MS at #3 round about now.

  29. Colin G

    My Dodgy Android App experience

    I have to admit, I have encountered a dodgy Android app.

    I installed the official Microsoft Hotmail Android app earlier in the year, and it worked fine for a while. Suddenly one weekend, it developed a fault and slurped my entire data quota (500Mb) in under 2 days. It was actually using over 300Mb a day in data until I identified the culprit and uninstalled it.

    1. Ilgaz

      Re: My Dodgy Android App experience

      It is not Microsoft hotmail app, it is seven or something. They can never separate "service" from product so they use third party.

      Remember IBM in 90s before they took a very severe lesson? That is what they need. A merciless market punishment.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yeah, I've got an issue with Android...

    Google stopped supporting my phone after less than 2 years. Trouble is Microsoft, you've done worse.

    1. MIc

      @AnotherNetNarcissist Re: Yeah, I've got an issue with Android...

      How so? are you referring to windows phone 7.5? It is still supported. you are getting 7.8. Why does "supported" mean to you?

      1. Tom 38 Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: @AnotherNetNarcissist Yeah, I've got an issue with Android...

        Why[sic] does "supported" mean to you?

        People continue to write and update apps for it, which apparently has already stopped happening for WP8.

        Eg, most of my music comes from Spotify. There is a WP7.5 spotify app; it's buggy as hell. Here is what a user of it says:

        Hey guys! How about a update to this bleepty music software, actually you can't talk about it as music software, but we do not mind to wait forever and ever for updates. In other words this app just not work, actually there is much more bugs than working things. So Spotify and Microsoft how about a update that fix all those bugs and adds all those improvements? source

        Allegedly, the WP7.5 Spotify app was written by "some guy" at MS, not Spotify.

        Fuck it, WP7.5 is dead, I'll get WP8, that must have a decent Spotfiy app. Oh wait…

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AnotherNetNarcissist Yeah, I've got an issue with Android...

        Didn't mention any specifics or platform, but had someone written similar about other platforms I'm sure there'd be howls of 'apologist' or some such. Just sayin'...

  31. MIc
    Thumb Down

    Any the negativity continues

    The El Reg crowd is a rather negative bunch. I can't recall an single article that's been met with positivity or enthusiasm or intellectual honesty.

    1. Tom 38 Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: Any the negativity continues

      We pretty much all agree on space exploration, boobs and a dislike for Oracle.

      Actually, there are a few frothy right wingers on here who think that space exploration is a waste of tax dollars (and that tax is somehow immoral or thievery). So mainly just boobs and Oracle.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Genius Advertising...

    120 comments from people who mainly profess to hate Windows Phone, you've got to hand it to MS' advertising people, they keep people talking and all these people who profess to hate the system are bitching about it left right and centre. It's sort of like a negative halo effect, keep the people who bitch about it bitching and they will get other people to have a look just see what all the fuss is about - that's certainly how I ended up with a WP7, I would never have looked at an MS phone, but when I dumped my last Symbian Nokia, I thought I'd have a look to see what all the fuss was about and I liked it.

    Advertising can be frighteningly subtle - do commentors here really think that MS' advertising people didn't know enough about how Twitter works to predict this sort of occurrence?

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Genius Advertising...

      Having personally met some of Microsoft's marketing people, I can confirm for you that the wiggly blue worms I feed my bearded dragon every Wednesday are more capable of performing the duties of marking Microsoft's goods to a marketplace that - quite clearly - these marketing bodies don't have a fucking clue about.

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