back to article Windows Phone 8 reboot woe causes outpouring of forum misery

Early adopters of Windows Phone 8 hardware are complaining that it reboots at random, up to several times a day, and that they're not being offered any prospect of a quick fix. The complaints relate specifically to the HTC 8X and, to a lesser extent, Nokia's Lumia 920, with Windows Phone 8 locking up or randomly rebooting on …

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  1. Reading Your E-mail
    Joke

    Good to see product testing is alive and rotting nicely in it's grave ;)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What did people expect

      A quick, stable, interesting alternative to iOS and Android???

      Close but no cigar

      1. Thomas 4
        Devil

        Re: What did people expect

        @AC 12:42

        Nice try but does anyone else remember when you could reset someone's Android G1 simply by texting the word "reboot" to them?

        My friend still hasn't forgiven me for shamelessly abusing his shiny new phone.

      2. ItsNotMe
        FAIL

        @ AC @ 12:42 GMT

        Re: "What did people expect"

        "A quick, stable, interesting alternative to iOS and Android???

        Close but no cigar"

        Well Sparky...I have had TWO Motorola Droid (one Android Gingerbread & one ICS) phones DO THIS EXACT SAME THING...and had them replaced by Verizon because of it.

        Now...number THREE is now starting to do this as well. So it's not exclusive to Windows...sorry.

        1. Bob Vistakin
          Headmaster

          Re: @ AC @ 12:42 GMT

          @ItsNoteMe The FACT that you USE that fucking annoying STYLE of capitalizing RANDOM words in your POST says it ALL, buddy.

          1. The_Regulator
            Trollface

            Re: Fanbois!!

            Unbelievable trolling on your part dude, sad to see....

            Running Lumia 920 since Friday, no reboots, no crashes everything smooth and looking ohhh so sweet.

            Dumbass comments on here from you and other android fanbois won't stop a great product!! I can't speak for the 8X but I can for the 920.

            Side Note: As a little research project maybe you should take a look at the best phones on amazon.com wireless. Right now I think there might be 6/7 windows phones in the top 10 with the majority having very high ratings from customers. Yes I know thats USA Only but it's an easy place to look early in the shelf life.

          2. ItsNotMe
            Happy

            Hey Bob...

            WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH USING CAPS? HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT?

            MAYBE I DO IT JUST TO ANNOY ASSHATS LIKE YOU....OLD BUDDY. :-)

          3. Anonymous Coward
            WTF?

            @ Bob

            "The FACT that you USE that fucking annoying STYLE of capitalizing RANDOM words in your POST says it ALL, buddy."

            Ahhh, and that would be what Bob?

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Random capitalisation...

            The one thing worse than a neighbour's noisy dog is the neighbour shouting at it in the middle of the night to try and shut it up...

    2. Bob Vistakin
      FAIL

      Sigh.

      If only microsoft had invested the $5 per handset they extort from the Android manufacturers into some R&D instead of having to fake queues outside stores, photos it takes and "reviews" from their astroturfers infesting blogs and forums.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Bob

        Do you have that as a cut and paste comment?

        Try to come up with something original.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Bob

          "Do you have that as a cut and paste comment?"

          What?

          http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforums.theregister.co.uk+%22Bob+Vistakin%22+%22If+only+microsoft+had+invested%22

          1 result.

      2. MIc
        Mushroom

        no fake queues

        that was a made up story based on assumption and bad info. The dude that wrote that article noticed that MS employees were inline to buy stuff as actual customers with their own money and assumed that they were paid to stand there. That's retarded just like your snarky comment :)

    3. bdam
      Mushroom

      This is what Nokia was destroyed for?

  2. Simbu
    Windows

    My Lumia 920 has been faultless. I suspect this is going to become a largely over-reported problem that a small minority of users will experience.

    On the other hand it doesn't excuse the problem but I don't think MS has that arrogance towards users (especially in mobile) any more - so it might actually get fixed promptly!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Same here. No reboots on WP7 or my WP8 phone.

      1. JDX Gold badge

        I've seen this on my WP7.5 Lumia 610, but probably once a month at most.

        However since iPhones can crash and I assume Android phones do, is this simply a case of modern phone OS being too complicated? I don't remember 'dumb' phones doing this.

        1. Chemist
          FAIL

          "since iPhones can crash"

          Stuff iPhones my mother's gas CH boiler crashes once or twice a year. There's even a little aide-memoire for rebooting it along with a manufacturer's note that dismisses the occasional crash as nothing too important !

    2. Select * From Handle
      Facepalm

      Reg Readers these days...

      Simbu you post an opinion based on your experiences stating you haven't had this problem at all and your phone has been fine and you get down voted. i think the Fanbois are out in force to discredit all opposition to iOS...

      1. Lallabalalla
        Megaphone

        Re: Reg Readers these days...

        Nah, we don't do that childish stuff, it's the fandroids.

        1. Lallabalalla
          Facepalm

          Re: Reg Readers these days...

          Haha! And to prove my point, who do you think downvoted me there? Actual LOL!

          1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

            Re: Reg Readers these days...

            "Haha! And to prove my point, who do you think downvoted me there? Actual LOL!"

            LOL, ok I'll feed ya. I'm surprised you've only got one down vote so far considering the trollishness of the comment. I guess this second post was because you weren't getting enough to eat. Pity you're not like my Nokia E66 as it only needs to be fed once every ten days or so.

        2. Z-Eden
          WTF?

          Re: Reg Readers these days...

          I reckon the Rimboys are doing it to the Microfans...

          1. Amorous Cowherder
            Happy

            Re: Reg Readers these days...

            You have no idea the damage reading the phrase "Rimboys" while eating peanuts washed down with Coke has now done to my keyboard!

          2. Bob Vistakin
            Linux

            Re: Reg Readers these days...

            "Microfans"? I though the name given to them had been established since it's just the obvious descriptive term:

            Nokia + Windows = NoWins aka Losers

      2. Simbu
        Mushroom

        Re: Reg Readers these days...

        This almost religious attitude to OS platforms is pathetic and quite frankly hilarious. People seem to think that choosing one over another is 'making a statement'. I choose whatever I think will best suit my needs. If you're judging me on something so insubstantial as what phone I'm carrying around then you're not worthy of my time or attention.

    3. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge
      Boffin

      @Simbu It depends....

      What do you use your phone for?

      Phone Calls? (Yes that's becoming a smaller percentage of time on the phone... ;-)

      Emails?

      Texts?

      Camera?

      Surfing the web?

      Music App?

      Then there's VOIP....

      Until you have enough occurrences and enough data of failures, it could be anything. A bad port of an iOS or Android App that causes Microsoft to fail could be the culprit and unless you use said app or class of apps, you don't know what it is.

      You can't test for every potential failure. It may just take a 'perfect storm'....

      1. Simbu

        Re: @Simbu It depends....

        Actually in my case all of the above, but I think you're concurring with my point - it's a difficult issue to reproduce and on that basis, not many users will be affected.

        Nonetheless, MS can't afford the negative publicity, so what might be a fringe-case issue will still get serious attention from MS and the WP8 OEMs.

    4. Brian

      Same here.. no reboots and still have 3/4's of my battery left at the end of the day.

    5. MIc

      Down votes for being positve

      seems like negativity is the only currency worth using in this community.

  3. Infidellic_

    "....and (in the case of Nokia) booting the phone without a SIM for ten minutes, then booting with the SIM back in again, which apparently worked for one user"

    I can't help but read these anecdotal "solutions" and wonder if I put "Sacrificing my first born to our Lord and Saviour the almight Satan worked for me" whether people would believe it could be an actual solution as much as the faith they put in these generally baseless techniques.

    1. Velv Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Be careful what you post!

      While I love your sarcasm, sadly there are far too many people on this planet who believe their God is better than all the others and that anecdotal evidence is widely accepted as gospel (and I'm not limiting this to technology solutions).

      Clearly none of them has ever heard of Science, and a logical approach where you change ONE thing at a time in a repeatable manner before you start proclaiming you've found the answer to life the universe and 42.

      1. Robert Grant
        FAIL

        Re: Be careful what you post!

        Yet somehow you're criticising other people for believing their worldview is correct? Who doesn't think like that?

        (Spoiler: not you.)

      2. Silverburn
        Joke

        Re: Be careful what you post!

        Science? That wasn't invented until 6,000 years ago, along with everything else...

        <-- joke icon. Because creationism is a big joke.....surely?

      3. My New Handle

        Re: Be careful what you post!

        "Clearly none of them has ever heard of Science, and a logical approach ..." BURN THE HERETIC

        Seriously, I doff my cap in respect to another voice of sanity in this wilderness inhabited by various *bois

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Be careful what you post!

          "Seriously, I doff my cap in respect to another voice of sanity in this wilderness inhabited by various *bois"

          You respect someone who veers from talking about problems with mobile phones into a moan about religion? Would you want this guy sat next to you in the pub/tube/bus? Especially between you and the exit?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Infidellic

      You must be Catholic then...

      Sorry, I'm thinking back to the segment in Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" where the Protestant can use condom but the poor Catholic sod couldn't because the Pope says no to contraceptive.

      Note: I'm not judging, just saying...

      Anon, because I do know that there are religious zealots who would take my comment the wrong way.

      Just Saying!

  4. iGoto

    Brings back memories I had with my WP7 (HTC - HD7)...

    That time it was a problem with the Zune music player freezing up during playback of DRM'd music. Required a battery remove/refit - power button didn't even work. The support thread ran into literally hundreds of pages and it took about 5 months for us to get a fix from HTC. I swore then that I'd a) Never go back to HTC because they didn't seem to have the motivation to fix it and b) never be an early adopter again.

    For what it's worth, I still have my WP7 and I'm very pleased with it and has been rock solid since we got the fix. No immediate plans to upgrade to WP8 just yet though, want to see how responsive MS/HTC/Nokia are at getting these issues fixed. If this rolls on for longer than a couple of weeks or so then that will justify my hesitation to upgrade. Will be interesting to see how fast they get a fix out.

  5. The BigYin

    MS product is crap. Next up, sky blue and water is wet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and...

      ...you are going to get lots of down and upvotes for that.

      Light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance.

    2. Silverburn
      FAIL

      Next up, sky blue and water is wet.

      The sky can also be wet, and water can also be blue. Analogy fail.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        "water can also be blue"

        AFAIK, only when it's poured into things that are advertised as having wings. Look a few weeks back for an, umm, "refresher" (sorry, that pun was rather unavoidable)..

        1. Stuart Archer
          Headmaster

          Water IS blue

          Liquid water actually absorbs a small part of the red and near IR spectrum, so in fact is actually blue. You only really notice this when there's a large volume of water present however.

          http://th.physik.uni-frankfurt.de/~scherer/Blogging/ColourWater/absorption.png

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Though it's certainly not hitting every Windows Phone 8 device

    Yep, all those sat gathering dust in storerooms, and all the review units shoved into drawers or sat on ebay are just fine....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Though it's certainly not hitting every Windows Phone 8 device

      That's odd given how hard it is to get hold of a Nokia 920, sold out everywhere "SIM free".

  7. NotInventedHere

    Rock solid here

    I've been using my Lumia 820 (admittedly not one of the models fingered in the article) fairly heavily since I got it ~10 days ago and it's been absolutely stable, no issues or problems whatsoever.

  8. dave 100
    FAIL

    "The problem isn't universal, though if reboots are intermittent and rare users may not be reporting them - unless it interrupts something one is doing then a reboot isn't very disruptive."

    Or say, you have a sim passcode, and then you just have no calls until you next look at the phone. Then it is a big deal.

    1. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge

      Funny...

      But I have had my Apple 4S reboot on its own. Of course I wasn't in the middle of anything and I don't usually turn my phone off, so I have to wonder if there's a memory leak or something that just takes time to cause it to kill my phone.

      Again, it could be nothing, or it could be the combination of apps that I run.

      Were it frequent and stopping me from using my phone, you can bet that I'd dump it and go to another phone ASAP. (In all honesty, I'd consider a Nokia, not that I'm a window's guy, but that it's price point with contract, and the solid build makes sense. )

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    duh

    it's windows

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: duh

      If Windows was so bad then industry would grind to a halt. Given the 90% plus marketshare of Windows on the desktop you can't really justify that remark without providing some figures or estimates on improved productivity if everyone used Linux.

      Many organisations have tried to move their office desktops to Linux and have ended up going back to Windows.

      1. Raumkraut

        Re: duh

        > If Windows was so bad then industry would grind to a halt. Given the 90% plus marketshare of Windows on the desktop...

        "Industry" does not run on desktop computers. Those parts that do, are generally not real-time processes. Windows does not have "90% plus" marketshare on servers, where stability really matters.

        > Many organisations have tried to move their office desktops to Linux and have ended up going back to Windows.

        And many organisations have successfully made the transition from Windows, and not looked back. But those organisations don't get paid by Microsoft to make press releases about it.

        1. Giles Jones Gold badge

          Re: duh

          Which is why it says 90% share on the desktop duh!

          Servers are not what people use directly, they are use indirectly.

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: duh

        @AC

        I feel you might have overlooked the power of having a critical mass of users... Facebook users don't like way it treats them, but can't change to something more respectful because their friends are on it. eBay is under no pressure to improve itself, since people selling things will want to use the auction site with the most users. And we have all heard of how businesses locked themselves into using Windows because of applications that require IE 5.

        Many small businesses use Sage products because the Inland Revenue likes it, and so 3rd party software vendors make their sector-specific software integrate with it... and Sage isn't available for Linux.

        Businesses can't jump horses in mid-stream, even if a demonstrably better horse presents itself.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: duh

          Like I said, many have tried to change and have gone back. There are plenty of case studies around on the web.

          http://news.softpedia.com/news/German-Council-Slams-OpenOffice-Wants-Microsoft-Office-Back-307741.shtml

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: duh

            In the above example, I hope they filed requests for the missing functionality, if you don't ask you don't get and unlike a product like Microsoft Office you pay your money and that earns you the right to act like a prima donna when it lacks the required support.

            Apache owned OpenOffice only gets better with a flow of feedback from the people using it and finding problems with it, identifying things that can be improved and contribution from developers who are charitable enough to contribute their time to the code base to provide a realistic alternative to Microsoft Office.

            Some businesses make the mistake of seeing it as a Microsoft Office substitute with very attractive price tag, but fail to see that if they aren't willing to get involved by feeding back to the community then they might as well stick with the one that comes in a box.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: duh

            "have gone back", eh? Why not follow this up with examples for which this is true? The decision on whether Freiburg are going to go back to MS Office or not is in fact to be made tomorrow (in German: http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Freiburg-Widerspruch-gegen-die-Office-Migration-1751357.html).

            As has been pointed out, other towns such as Munich, Jena and Leipzig and others have happily converted to OpenOffice and are overall content with the change with no intentions of moving back. There is also the issue that they sit on old versions OpenOffice instead of regularly updating which according to the OSB Alliance (in German: open letter in response to the suggestion of a move back to MS Office: http://www.osb-alliance.de/themen-aktuelles/detailansicht/artikel/beschlussvorlage-g12-223-anwendung-von-offenen-standards-und-quelloffener-software-open-source/) would alleviate many of their issues. They make a lot of other I find good points and we'll see how it plays out.

          3. Darren Barratt
            Meh

            Re: duh

            True that. The UNIX/Linux evangelical movement don't like it and pretend it doesn't happen, but you get just as much migration back to Windows as away from.

            As in all these things, if you want the truth, follow the money. I've not seen Microsoft filling for bankruptcy lately.

      3. AlbertH
        Flame

        Re: duh

        If Windows was so bad then industry would grind to a halt.

        A recent "Time and Motion" study where I work showed between 30 minutes and 2 hours per employee, per day lost to the inefficiencies, instabilities and inconsistencies of Windows. That's why we've banned it. We also don't allow Mac, due to its basic incompatibility with everything else... There is only one sane option!

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If Windows was so bad then industry would grind to a halt.

        Windows being bad literally is an industry. If it were fixed tens of millions of people would find themselves out of a job.

        The parasite ecosystem is the most salient feature of Windows, and its biggest reason for existance.

        Sad to have to soil the once proud word 'industry' that way.

      5. wayward4now
        Linux

        Re: duh

        Many organizations have tried to move their office servers to Windows and have ended up going back to Linux.

  10. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Alexander Hanff 1

    WP7

    WP7 had the same problem - my Lumia 900 used to do the same thing but then it just stopped doing it - so it was probably fixed in one of the 2 software updates I have received.

    1. Robert Grant
      Thumb Down

      Re: WP7

      WP7 didn't have the same problem - my HTC Trophy never did that and it's about 20 months old. Yours may have - and that sucks - but that doesn't mean the OS somehow was the problem. It wasn't. Probably a hardware issue where accessing an infrequently-used component (say, GPS?) is causing a serious error.

      1. Alexander Hanff 1

        Re: WP7

        First, I have GPS disabled on my phone. Second if it was a hardware thing it would have continued, it didn't - it stopped doing it at some point after I installed an update, which would suggest it was a WP7 thing not a hardware thing.

        Just because your Trophy never had the problem doesn't mean it wasn't an OS issue - just as some of the WP8 devices are not suffering from the issues discussed in this article.

        Thanks anyway.

  12. Lee Dowling Silver badge

    Reboot culture

    Is it just me that detests the "reboot culture" of tech support?

    Sure, it fixes the immediate problem (i.e. my computer is inaccessible) but it doesn't solve the actual problem or its causes in any, shape or form.

    I've heard it for every problem known to man and if a reboot gets you to a working machine then it's "problem solved" according to the support lines and off you're supposed to trundle. ISP's are particularly mad on this and I have just moved to a leased line at work because the line we have CAN be fixed by rebooting the modem - but we have to reboot it 10-20 times a day. And now its creeping into daily life when your phone needs rebooting, or your media player, or you Blu-Ray player, or your games console or even your car (OBD etc.). Fix-by-rebooting is like saying "Well, if you start your car and it doesn't show the same 'I have no brakes' problem that you just experienced at 70mph on the motorway when it restarts, then your problem is solved".

    And not just that, but incessant reboots to do trivial tasks are the bane of my life. I can't count the number of forced reboots I have to endure throughout the working day for NO GOOD REASON.

    When tech support anywhere tell me to reboot, I pause for a minute, say "Yep, done that" and then hope they'll get on with actually solving the damn problem.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Reboot culture

      You are not alone - but when the culture is really 'reinstall the OS every six months' then 'reboot to fix' is trivial in comparison. I fear we are doomed.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Reboot culture

          Yes, because Linux never slows down if you fill it up with cruft.

          If you fill up a Windows OS or a Linux OS with a whole load of old crap, that isn't needed they both slow down. If you've got a standard Windows build and you need to re-install it every few months, you're doing something wrong. Personally I don't need to re-install either every few months, I've got Windows VMs which have been running for seven or eight years on the same build. I would note that when I do upgrade, it's form a full re-install on either Linux or Windows because no-matter what anyone says an upgrade install of an OS rarely works properly. As an aside, many linux releases have a much quicker release cycle than Windows, so pretty much all of my Linux VMs are younger than my Windows VMs.

          1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Reboot culture - windows rot

              With Linux [...] there is no registry (except that a fake one that some idiot tried to foist on gnome and no one uses

              Upvote for your post. Spot on in almost every respect. Except even though I initially thought the registry was a crap idea in Gnome, at least it's restricted to just Gnome, and it's per-user rather than being system-wide. Even though I do still think it is a bit of a mess and is over-used within Gnome, it does have one very useful feature: it means that if I ssh -X into a system and set up a gconf process then any gnome apps that I run there will have a method of permanently storing configuration changes. At least that makes it marginally easier than each app having its own incompatible config file and miles better than the alternative using xrdb (and no need for apps to restart before settings take effect)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Reboot culture

            "Yes, because Linux never slows down if you fill it up with cruft."

            Being a monolithic kernel, this statement is 100% accurate.

        2. Lee Dowling Silver badge

          Re: Reboot culture

          My last XP image went through 4 computers, and nearly 8 years of constant use (so I still had the drivers from the very first computer still present on the disk when I broke the last laptop this year!). Hell, it was on the exact same hard drive for most of that time.

          I suspect that with virtualisation etc. my current OS setup will actually last longer without any kind of reinstall (I already virtualise my copy of Windows 8 Pro because my workplace are looking at moving to it as their primary desktops and I'll need to support it - the machine actually doing the virtualisation DOES NOT run on that heap of junk).

          But saying that, I still have Linux machines with a direct archaeology back to Slackware 3.1 and kernel 2.0.38, if I want to get pedantic (1996, I think).

          People seem to forget that hardware comes and goes but your software SHOULDN'T. Upgrades, yes, clean-ups, yes, even complete hardware replacements - but you shouldn't be formatting your drive unless something incredibly drastic has gone wrong and you have no suitable backups.

          Now, in terms of professional setups, I am a bit the opposite and will happily re-image a PC from a known-working image or use a clean image for a new base on a new model. But that's because I want those machines *pristine* and to eliminate the current disk data as a source of the trouble. That's totally different to a home user.

          And I make a point of correcting anyone who pulls out the "computers get slower the more you use them" line. It's a load of tosh. It's like saying a car gets slower if you don't put any oil in it... of course it does! But if you did a little bit of maintenance every now and again on probably THE most expensive electrical appliance in your house, then it can go at the same speed it always has until the hardware itself dies.

          1. Owain 1
            Meh

            Re: probably THE most expensive electrical appliance in your house

            Why would servicing my SMEG fridge stop my laptop from slowing?

            Hell, I probably paid more for my washing machine and dishwasher than my laptop.

    2. EvilGav 1
      Thumb Down

      Re: Reboot culture

      Having spent more time than I care to mention on 3rd line support, there is a reason for the reboot culture - it tends to "fix" the incident.

      If you are genuinely rebooting on the scale you suggest, then your support *should* have been altering an incident to a problem (ITIL standard), since you have an underlying issue that needs to be resolved.

      As for other comments about continuous reboots/rebuilds. I rebuilt my PC 2 weeks ago, for the first time since November 2007. It had been running Vista 64bit for all that time, mostly on long stints without rebooting - what had been changed over that time period was the motherboard (wanted a PCI-e 2.1 mobo), the CPU cooler (went from air to water cooled), the soundcard (went from onboard to Asus D2X), the memory (went from 4GB to 8GB), the graphics card (X1950 to 8800GT to 8800GTS to HD5770), the PSU (replaced with a modular supply) and the case (needed more drive bays). All of that done with the same OS install and it was running at almost the same speed at the end as the start (boot-up wise).

      To all those who think you need to rebuild every 6 months, learn to build it properly in the first place and that becomes unnecessary.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Reboot culture

          "when I say reinstall every 6 months, I refer to the average user - Mums, teenagers etc, not so much geeks that have learned to avoid mistakes normal people make."

          This is exactly what other commentards have pointed out: the demographic for Linux users is not the same as Windows, so you can hardly expect the same type of problems.

          I'm typing this on an XP Professional system I built in 2002, it's still as sprightly as always; and I can't remember when I last had an unscheduled reboot on it. I've had similar experience (so far) on my Windows 7 Professional laptop.

          Don't get me wrong, I think Linux is a great O/S (I have an old netbook running Ubuntu), especially for servers; but most O/S problems are a result of users doing things that they shouldn't (e.g. installing software from dubious sites), so locking the admin features away is advisable for all O/S, but especially Windows.

          On the WinMo reboot, I've had quite a few unscheduled reboots on my Galaxy Nexus (maybe scheduled by Google perhaps, but not me) resulting in missed calls etc. so I can sympathise.

    3. calumg
      Mushroom

      Re: Reboot culture

      Ha ha, this morning I had to reboot after plugging my mouse into a different USB socket. On Windows 7. I kid you not.

      1. Wensleydale Cheese
        WTF?

        Re: Reboot culture

        Ha ha, this morning I had to reboot after plugging my mouse into a different USB socket. On Windows 7. I kid you not.

        I've seen that on Windows 7 as well.

        It's right up there with the NT4 (or was it Win98?) message:

        Keyboard not found. Hit any key continue

        1. hypernovasoftware

          Re: Reboot culture

          One my favorites was when NT4 would run out of disk space: (paraphrased)

          "No space available. Please delete some files".

          You could at least use the command line to delete the file and free up some space but Good Lord that was a dumb error message.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Reboot culture

            ""No space available. Please delete some files".

            You could at least use the command line to delete the file and free up some space but Good Lord that was a dumb error message."

            Why?

        2. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

          Re: Reboot culture

          Who is this General Failure, and why is he reading my C: drive?

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Reboot culture @ Wensleydale Cheese

          "It's right up there with the NT4 (or was it Win98?) message:

          Keyboard not found. Hit any key continue"

          That's actually a BIOS/POST error, isn't it?

        4. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          Re: Reboot culture

          Yah, That "Keyboard nor found" error floors me every time, but unfortunately, it's a BIOS error, not a Windows one. It goes back to IBM PS/2 systems, I think, but may have been in the original IBM PC as well (I don't have anything that old to test on, I threw my wife's 5150 away when she got a Tosh T1000 laptop for £25 about 10 years ago).

          My youngest son has a different problem. He has a Microsoft Sidewinder mouse plugged into a Windows 7 system, and after about an hour, it stops working. Unplug and replug, and it works again. Plug it into ANY other OS (not tried Windows 8, admittedly), and it works perfectly for ever. And this appears to be a well reported problem. Still, it's a bit off topic.

    4. James Gosling
      Megaphone

      Re: Reboot culture

      Reboot culture lays at Microsoft's door. It's so pervasive now that I regularly come across the attitude that non windows servers need to be regularly rebooted, like linux boxes. That simply isn't the case!

      I must also point out that there are some very dodgy statistics being quoted by some above. 90% of computers do not run Windows. Admittedly Linux hasn't really taken off as a desktop OS but server side it has a massive share of the market and that is continuing to grow. When you introduce IOS and Android you can clearly see why Windows 8 is so make or break for Microsoft, their market share continues to be eroded.

      I don't want to see the end of Microsoft, but learning a little humility would do them a lot of good.

  13. Fihart

    BSOD ?

    see above

  14. skeete
    Meh

    My iPhone reboots all the time when launching apps or switching apps. After 5 years you would think they would be fixed by now.

    1. Lallabalalla
      Unhappy

      your iphone

      is broken, mate. Or (jail)broken.Nobody else's does that. Sorry.

    2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      After 5 years you would think they would be fixed by now

      Most of us know that warranty expires after 2 years - you should have brought it in earlier..

  15. Slik Fandango
    Meh

    Used to have an SE 910i like that

    Would reset itself at bizarre random times.

    Like once in the middle of a call when I was telling them that despite the snow and ice I was ok and hadn't crashed the car (using handsfree of course!) - then having to wait around 10 minutes before I could call them back to complete the conversation!

    Called Sony Ericsson support who went - oh it does that! It's because it's had an update. Really - they updated it a lot then - reset almost twice a day at one stage...

  16. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      Oh No! My phone's rebooting! Now the emergency services will never know that a jumbo jet's just crashed / that train's driven over a cliff / the queen's favourite corgi has eaten some raw chicken, 'cos no-one else will ring them.

      Or maybe, if we're reaaaaaaaaaaally lucky, someone else might have a phone.

      It's a mobile phone rebooting ferchrissakes, aren't you being a wee bit OTT?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      A Google search for "Android crash" returns "About 173,000,000 results". Just saying..

      1. Adam 1 Silver badge

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        Yes but WP8 has reboot on BOTH users!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        Applications crash on all platforms, and it's not a reflection on the platform, more on the developer (Although Apple seems to be the worst, but they never throw an error or submit crash feedback).

        OS rebooting is something entirely different.

        1. Tim99 Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: How much worse can it get?

          @AC 13:22

          On the rare-ish occasions an Apple application has crashed on me, it gives me a crash feedback - As it is a *nix based OS, I can use also the console to look at error logs.

          The thing that can be unstable for me is Safari. For some reason it does not like occupying 2-3 GB of memory - Having 8+ windows with 100+ tabs open for a couple of days sometimes crashes, although when I restart Safari it seems to be fine...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: How much worse can it get?

            "On the rare-ish occasions an Apple application has crashed on me, it gives me a crash feedback - As it is a *nix based OS, I can use also the console to look at error logs."

            It's exactly the same on Windows NT and all it's derivatives since the late 1990s; Administrative Tools > Event Viewer.

      3. darklord
        Devil

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        never had an android unit crsh yet and im on my third. i just dont load rubbish apps on there which as usual are the cause of instability.

      4. NoOnions
        Trollface

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        A Google search for 'iPhone crash' returns 'About 279,000,000 results'.

        What's your point?

      5. kissingthecarpet
        FAIL

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        Strange - I only got 66,400. Of course you didn't search for "Android crash", you searched for Android crash without quotes. A Google search for Troll twat returns 49,100,000 results BTW

    3. Colin Millar
      Alert

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      Meanwhile back in reality world a logical assessment would probably conclude that given this problem appears to be limited to a couple of phone models there is probably a power configuration issue with the hardware which the OS will come to the rescue of.

      One of the reasons for windows OS size is that it does try to be all things to all hardware configs. And guess what - Linux flavours are now following the same path having realised that saying to potential users "you don't want to do it that way" wasn't much of a marketing strategy.

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        Re: How much worse can it get?

        What universe do you live in? Windows does not have support for all devices built in. That's why you need all of those shiny installation CDs whenever you add a new piece of hardware.

        I suggest you try taking a disk from one vendors's system, and sticking it in another from a different vendor (although make sure that you do not switch from a 64 to a 32 bit 32 bit system if a 64 bit kernel is installed). I would be almost completely certain with a Linux system that it would boot(*), and as long as it has a VESA compatible graphics mode, that it would come up with something like a full res screen, with all disk and 99% of network adapters working without problems. I've switched my laptop disk between systems more times than I can count.

        With a Windows system, I would give odds of only 50-50 that it will even boot except in safe mode, and if it did, the screen would probably default to 640x480 16 colour mode, with sound and network adapters not working until you stick the correct drivers on. I've had these problems every time I've changed a mobo in a Windows system, although I will admit that I've not done it since Windows XP.

        The difference is that Linux treats almost all hardware as not being needed in the stock kernel, but has the hooks to allow it to install software modules for devices detected during the boot process. This means that unneeded device drivers do not get loaded into the kernel. This makes the kernel relatively generic. All you need is for the modules to be present in the boot volume, and known to the device configuration method. Of course, some devices need additional software to function correctly, but I would bet on any Linux distro from the last seven or eight years having better support for more devices out-of-the-box than Windows.

        (*) The exception is 32 bit Ubuntu Precise Pangolin (12.04) or later on a system that does not support PAE, unless you've installed the non PAE kernel. Bad Canonical. Very bad.

    4. PyLETS
      Linux

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      For the record I have an Android phone (LG Optimus One) which needs a reboot about twice a week. Mildly annoying but not a very big deal. It does mean I can't rely on it as my main alarm clock. After loading a software update the frequency may have reduced but not massively, so it's likely to be an intermittent hardware fault.

      I've used Linux on the desktop as my main home PC OS for about 16 years, run Windows on my work PC and use virtual machines for the rest.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      @Edon - You just said that you need to re-install Windows every few months, so I think we all know how authoritative you are about the Windows operating system.

      Just like lots of Windows fanboys and Linux fanboys, you make the mistake of presuming that the other is not worth using, based of a bare minimum of information self selected for what fits your worldview. Can you say "Confirmation bias"?

    6. Giles Jones Gold badge

      Re: How much worse can it get?

      LOL. A wonderful insight from a blinkered view of the world. Windows Phone isn't the Windows desktop. It's much smoother and faster.

      I've used all forms of smartphone and Windows is no less reliable than anything around.

      Android isn't superb quality either, Google even missed out December from the calendar in the latest update. Such a schoolboy error.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much worse can it get? @Eadon 12:19

      "So where was I?"

      Frothing "WINDOWS BAD! LINUX PERFECT!" - same as your other posts. It's scary you have to ask when it's all you're saying :)

  17. DAN*tastik
    Thumb Up

    Maybe it's a feature?

    It could be because the phone automatically calls Roy Trenneman from the I.T. Crowd when something goes wrong, and follows his advice?

  18. John Tserkezis

    Why is anyone surprised?

    I mean the crashing and rebooting has been happening with CE and WP from seven versions ago, and everyone expects 8 to be any better?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why is anyone surprised?

      Don't compare Windows Mobile with Windows Phone, the specs are tightly controlled and there is a less wide range of hardware running it. So the drivers are supplied by Microsoft and not OEMs.

      Windows Mobile was more crashy, but that was down to bad coding of apps and drivers by 3rd party developers.

  19. Matt_payne666

    My 920 has been rick solid, no lockups or reboots...

    All hardware will have a bad day at some point, my iPhone certainly had its fair share of moments... Apps closing to desktop, mail wiping its contents and having to re download from scratch, phone needing a reboot and in one case a full restore... Its one of those things!

  20. James Gosling
    Happy

    Windows on a Phone...

    And that phone crashes a lot.... gosh, what a surprise! Still at least you will be able to standardize the same crap OS across all your devices. A Microsoft Phone... whatever were you thinking!

  21. Bob Vistakin
    Holmes

    Anyone flashed one of these with Android?

    The hardware looks decent enough, and it's unlikely to have exactly the same faults in the same places from different manufacturers. Would someone give it a go, just to tell us what we already know please? Well, apart from the bright yellow one which is clearly beyond redemption, no matter if it runs quality software or WP8.

    1. Anon the mouse

      Re: Anyone flashed one of these with Android?

      The bright yellow one, is just a yellow QI cover. WP8 devices seem to have brought back changable covers in a big way.

      No-one has got Android running on a WP8 device yet, or even sideloading of apps.

      1. Matt_payne666

        Re: Anyone flashed one of these with Android?

        Nope, all the 920's are one piece affairs, no changeable backs here!

        and the yellow? Personal preference really, i like it and the finish is great, certainly a change from my old fruity phones!

  22. syncdram

    Should you really be suprised?

    I think not this is microsofts way of life. There should have been extensive testing on the platforms this brick was going to be sold on. I'm a Linux user, have been for more than 15 years and my HTC Amaze runs Android. I can't comment on your woes because desktop and phone both run flawlessly. Always have. I'm sure microsoft will have this all straightened out just before the release of Brick 9 and as usual support for you guys will be suspended.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Should you really be suprised?

      "...I can't comment on your woes because desktop and phone both run flawlessly. Always have..."

      You've been using Linux for 15 years on the desktop and it's always been flawless? I have literally never met someone who has made such a comment and I work with Linux every day and have worked with it pretty much every day for about the same amount of time you claim it's been flawless. What a ridiculous thing to say, sheesh, fanboys.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Should you really be suprised?

        You don't get many problem with Linux since there's no decent applications to run on it.

        Photoshop, Office, Cubase Audio, Final Cut? nope.

        It doesn't take much effort to run VI and Apache, it's old crap that is very slowly developed. While the rest of us on Windows and OSX are using applications from this decade.

        1. oh_cfc

          Re: Should you really be suprised?

          While you run your windows apps from this decade, could you try mounting a usb drive with two partitions?

          1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

            Re: Should you really be suprised?

            could you try mounting a usb drive with two partitions

            OK, I don't use my Win XP VM more than once every 2..3 weeks or so, but that one surprises me - I have never experienced that as a problem. Not even on Win 7 machines.

            I look at the bright side: Microsoft actually delivered. The user experience is now identical across all hardware platforms Win 8 works on..

            /me donning flame proof underwear..

        2. Chemist

          Re: Should you really be suprised?

          "are using applications from this decade"

          Interesting then that one of my Linux workstations managed to edit and render 1080p/50 video, whilst running two desktop users yesterday - I think that's probably of this decade as the camera is only 9 months old

  23. xyz
    Devil

    ouch Handbag!

    man, the haters are out today. Just mentioning that you've had no problems, gets you downvoted all the way to hell. Mind you with the iSieve (sorry iCloud) flapping about like a dying cockroach, I presume les fanbois have jack all else to do at the moment.

    1. Darren Barratt
      Facepalm

      Re: ouch Handbag!

      Well, as long as.they're agreeing with the neckbeard crowd about Microsoft, people might think they know about computers.

  24. Mahou Saru
    FAIL

    Intermittent reboots...

    Are one of the worst things to happen to a new product, and if you love your new gadget it should worry you for a couple of reasons...

    1. The intermittent faults are hard to diagnose and push out a fix, mostly because companies then to be sluggish in dealing with problems that only seems affect a few users.

    2. It could happen to you, especially when you don't need it to. The fault could be caused by installing an app, or using a embedded service in a certain way, and sods law states that it will bite you in the arse just when you need it the most.

    Mostly have a thought for those it does happen to, if your new shiny started rebooting intermittently wouldn't you be pissed?

  25. Stephen Channell
    Facepalm

    removing the beta release of Skype ...

    What dammed fool allowed a BETA of Skype out into the wild; with its integration into the People-tab, phone & messaging.. you’re not Apple (where people will blame themselves); you’re not Google (where people will assume it was the battery); you got to be as solid as a dropped iPhone (but without the cracked screen).

    Having all my {phone, fleecebook, linkedin, twitter, skppe} contacts in the people tile is only a feature if it’s solid, otherwise you’re better off with half-a-dozen apps. Making Skype calls from the phone app is neat for long-distance but has to be rock solid ‘cus the phone app is safety critical

  26. paulf Silver badge
    Alert

    "Support staff from the three companies have reportedly been suggesting rebooting"

    WP8 User: Hello? My Windows Phone 8 handset randomly reboots. It has just rebooted again. Do you have a solution?

    Handset Manf: Yes. The best solution is to please reboot your phone.

    WP8 User: Really?

  27. robert_raw

    My SGS i9000 Android phone reboots every now and again usually while the web browser is crashing but I still love it :)

  28. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    This is a non issue. I am posting this very missive from a Windo

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bah!

      Tee hee! Someone thinks you're witty for basically repeating the subheader (or whatever it's called.)

  29. tsimeone
    Thumb Up

    not bad any issues with my lumia 920, been up and running stable for 7 days..

  30. W. Anderson

    Windows Phone 8 problems

    Why has Microsoft not taken these Windows 8 phone problems to task, by first publicly announcing the existence of issues, then stating quite strongly and clearly that they fully intend to solve problems and "attempt" to provide solution by specified date.

    This will offer the publc some confidence that Microsoft is not the same ole - long denial first, then minimizing the problems, then offering broken remedies, then finally fixing the problems after an extended period of time - usually long after some third party had produced a fix. In other words they are serious about providing good (quality) products and services to the public without crass exploitation motives.

    Even though I have always been extremely skeptical about any substantive changes in Microsoft's draconian and repressive policies and practices towards competitors, particularly those in Free/Open Source Software (FOSS) ecosystem, it was with some hope that the company changed for the positive with introduction of Windows 8 products.

    There is a need for broader competition in the technology field in quality, reasonably priced products and services. So far though, the results from Microsoft are not encouraging. Maybe Steve Balmer (still) at the helm remain a negative factor. With all their money, experience and constantly declared "innovation" capability, excuses and lots of time won't do.

  31. The_Regulator

    Why MS has not said anything...

    The phones only got a public release last week, should huge companies then immediately respond to every individual user without testing the common issues first then responding? Seriously bloggers are stupid sometimes, this is real life not fantasyland.....

  32. AlexP

    same exactt issue with early HTC One S.. its not the IOS.. its HW.. still happens now..

  33. scoob101

    HTC cant write firmware for toffee

    Looks like this issue is primarily affecting HTC handsets - and I have to say I am not surprised.

    My last HTC (WP7) device rebooted in exactly this way until they released a firmware update some 4 months later. HTC support were completey and utterly useless thoughout the entire debacle.

    those posters who are pointing the finger at microsoft might want to remember that MS write and test the OS, but its the manufacturer who writes and tests the firmware for their handset. This is HTC`s failure.

    I`ll never buy another HTC phone again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I`ll never buy another HTC phone again.

      And the Nokias that apparently have a similar problem?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Re: HTC cant write firmware for toffee

      Anecdotal experience is anecdotal. I've owned several HTC handsets and they have all been awesome.

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