back to article Fans' loyalty questioned as iPhone popularity plummets

iPopularity is in a state of decline, with "Apple loyalty" said to have fallen for the first time since the iPhone's 2007 release. Only 75 per cent of iPhone owners in Western Europe say they'd choose an Apple device for their next smartphone, new data from market watcher Strategy Analytics show. That still seems a relatively …

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  1. FartingHippo
    Meh

    Empires Rise...

    ...Empires Fall

    Standard Oil, the East India Company, Microsoft: all ruled the world and then fell (or are falling).

    The loyalty and willingness of Apple fans to spend money has been phenomenal. Couldn't last forever, and the original yawning quality gap between Apple and non-Apple phones and tablets has vanished (and in the case of phones at least, arguably reversed). A more balanced market will emerge.

    Next on the chopping block: A certain search and advertising corporation.

    1. NoneSuch Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Empires Rise...

      Funny that my Android phone was bought more than three iPhone releases ago and still has more functionality than the latest Apple device.

      ...and at half the cost of one of them.

      Apple is degrading because of the lack of choice available on their hardware, draconian treatment of those who do not kiss their butts (Press - like The Reg, developers, etc.) and customers realizing that they are paying WAY too much for faulty technology that needs to be upgraded with every release just to be six months behind. Not to mention litigation instead of competition and faking evidence in court.

      Quality gap? My phone has not needed a bumper, does not need software updates to stop using cell data when wifi is on or have a purple haze on my pics. My map software works and I have a choice of a half dozen app stores or the option of going straight to a developers web site to install software.

      Should I choose to change phones I can pick from a half dozen manufacturers and several hundred models; not two. When Apple stops treating their customers like mindless muppets, maybe that will change. Until then, they are reaping what they have sowed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

        An Android 2.3 phone? Worst crap I ever used. 2.4 second worst. 3.0 in a moment of singularity 3rd worst. Winphone 6.5 a tie and so on down the list.

        1. Big_Ted
          Facepalm

          Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

          Well you post shows how stupid you are.

          Android 3 was not a phone OS but Honeycomb which was a tablet OS and 2.4 never existed.

          the jump was from 2.37 to 4 ICS then 4.1 Jelly Bean.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

            They all look and function equally badly and I don't distinguish between the versions that much. Since I wouldn't dream of actually buying anything running Android crap, I have limited myself to crashing other peoples devices (tablets/phones). YMMV

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              "They all look and function equally badly and I don't distinguish between the versions that much. Since I wouldn't dream of actually buying anything running Android crap, I have limited myself to crashing other peoples devices (tablets/phones). YMMV"....with an undeserved smug look on your face not realising just how blinkered your though processes really are. You don't work in academia by any chance?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

            1: You should buy a dictionary and learn to read it. It will improve the quality of your rants.

            2: I don't care care about version numbers or a plethora of other aspects of gadgets I own or use (nor do 99% of smartphone/tablet users). Android is Android and it has been and IMHO still is, a pile of steaming crap that has only just reached the minimum levels of usability and quality.

            You can choose to have an alternate opinion and you can choose to believe that screen size is relevant factor in this.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              Fuckwits out in force again today I see

              1. Toothpick
                Holmes

                Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

                "Fuckwits out in force again today I see"

                That's a bit harsh on Obviously!

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

                  ""Fuckwits out in force again today I see"

                  That's a bit harsh on Obviously!"

                  True- he's hardly out in force, he hasn't been TREATING everyone TO his NOVEL capitalisation and excessive PUNCTUATION!!!!!one

                  (Yet)

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

                Indeed.

                FFS people, it is a bloody phone. It's as bad as the whole C64 vs Speccy playground arguments again.

                Every phone makes calls and sends texts, that's all they really need to do, everything else is bonus.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

                  "FFS people, it is a bloody phone. It's as bad as the whole C64 vs Speccy playground arguments again."

                  Oh god, you're right. Now, as then, I have both, too- Android and iOS, speccy and '64. Neither is perfect, both are interesting. Foam-flecked adherents of either tend to be angry, incoherent, ill-informed and a little insecure.

                  FML.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              Too bad you can't back up your statement with facts. You must be an Iphone user or a conservative

            3. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              You can choose to have an alternate opinion and you can choose to believe that screen size is relevant factor in this.

              You mean like "big screen size is so important that we're not going to make small ones" to "we made a small screen size (with crappy resolution/dpi) and it's brilliant" to "big screen size is everything, man", to ... (you get the picture).

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

          "An Android 2.3 phone? Worst crap I ever used. 2.4 second worst. 3.0 in a moment of singularity 3rd worst. Winphone 6.5 a tie and so on down the list."

          Funny, my 2.3 offers the same features and functionality of the iPhone 5.

          Could you not learn how to use it? Is that why you chose FisherPrice OS?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

            Android 2.3 offers the same as iOS6, except I suppose for the ability to run anything useful as an App, stability, functionality, battery life, and the usability.

            I both use and support a range of mobiles, and one thing we've decided is that if anyone wants to use an Android phone it's BYOD time, we refuse to supply or attempt to support such a load of rubbish. Our rough averages are that an Android phone lasts less than half the time of an Apple, the batteries, well dead lucky that they're replaceable as we've replaced a lot of them, often after as little as six months. Connectivity, especially to corporate email, iPhone, 20 seconds to setup (excluding spelling mistakes), Android, average 2-3 hours, shortest was 20 minutes, longest 3 days; we think it was the position of the moon, or something like that. Briefly, Android, great idea and it probably will be good once it matures, but still waiting.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              Not to mention malware, it's a massively growing problem on Android.

              The most popular platform always gets the malware.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

                "The most popular platform always gets the malware."

                Yeah there is loads of it on S40.....has been for years when it was the most popular platform by absolute miles, same with S60...you are really talking shite there.

            2. Chet Mannly

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              "Android, average 2-3 hours, shortest was 20 minutes, longest 3 days; we think it was the position of the moon, or something like that. "

              Took the IT guy 30 seconds to set up corporate email on my android. Took me 10 seconds to setup gmail.

              You could probably compile Android from scratch AND setup email in 3 days, no idea WTF you could possibly be doing for 3 days.

              Staring lovingly at your iphone perhaps?

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

              "Connectivity, especially to corporate email, iPhone, 20 seconds to setup (excluding spelling mistakes), Android, average 2-3 hours, shortest was 20 minutes, longest 3 days;"

              Obviously you need someone with half a brain cell to do the setting up or someone not wearing boxing gloves.

              My corporate connection took me a minute or so (to dig out the server name in Outlook 365) and was away and running.

              And a friend of mine has just replaced all company handsets with Samsung (from iPhone) as the iPhones simply didn't last the course....number of "failed" handsets, breakages, dead batteries.... And he was paying a stupid premium for what isn't really a premium handset any more.

        3. FordPrefect
          FAIL

          Re: Empires Rise...@nonesuch

          What you mean you had a phone based on android 3.0? The OS that was only for android tablets and had no built in phone functions? Its no wonder you had a bad experience!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "Funny that my Android phone was bought more than three iPhone releases ago and still has more functionality than the latest Apple device.

        ...and at half the cost of one of them."

        Funny my Android device lasted 6 months before they ditched it yet my 3GS is still going strong. There is LESS need to upgrade with iPhone than Android - that is not to say some people so not CHOOSE to upgrade but I see plenty of 3GS handsets still in use and that's now a 4 year old phone.

        1. Neil Alexander

          Re: Empires Rise...

          You, like most other people who buy Android phones, made the fatal mistake of purchasing a non-Nexus device. The Nexus line showcase vanilla Android's power and simplicity. Every other manufacturer/operator-modified Android phone is just an extremely poorly butchered relation.

        2. Chet Mannly

          Re: Empires Rise...

          "Funny my Android device lasted 6 months before they ditched it"

          Who is "they"? Every phone I've owned continued to work after the manufacturer stopped making them...

          "There is LESS need to upgrade with iPhone than Android "

          No, there's less REASON to upgrade with iOS. Let's face it, given all the problems and cutbacks iOS6 isn't really an "upgrade". I had a 3GS too, Apple started losing me when they went to iOS4 whose biggest new feature was a new advertising platform for Apple!

      3. Chet Mannly

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "Should I choose to change phones I can pick from a half dozen manufacturers and several hundred models; not two"

        That, and the ability to customise and install my own software on my own phone (radical idea I know!) are the reason I switched to Android.

        There's still plenty of Apple fans out there, but I think losing Steve (Tim Cook just doesn't generate the same media fawning), a locked-down one size fits all approach in the face of more open competition plus suing first and asking questions later have robbed Apple of some of their "cool".

        Mind you, customer retention in the 80% range is still nothing to be sneezed at...

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "my Android phone" niec of you to say which one, so we can deal with lets say oh facts.

        My Nokia phone bought 12 years ago, still has more functionality than your "my Android phone" how's that.

        Going to buy a Nokia now?

      5. Ian Watkinson

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "and still has more functionality than the latest Apple device."

        Remind me, how do you back up an android device again? You know so should you lose it and replace it with an identical one, you'd not lose an sms, emails, settings that kind of thing. Lets keep it even, no rooting, faffin, jail breaking, or any other faff just out of the box.....how does that work?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Empires Rise...

      Given that Google make the only other mobile operating system that has mass market appeal I'm not sure I follow you...

      1. Marty
        Trollface

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "Given that Google make the only other mobile operating system that has mass market appeal I'm not sure I follow you..."

        I think the point he was trying to make was that makers of android handsets, have competition to drive ahead innovation. Two years ago it was HTC that was top of the market for Android phones, now its samsung.

        even though they are running the same OS and can run the asme apps, the interface usually gets tweaked to suit and at least you have the impression that you have a new phone. Upgrade from an Iphone 3gs to iphone 5,then with the exception of cosmetic changes you are still looking at the same GUI...

        and with an android handset, when you switch to a new brand, at least you get to keep all your apps you have paid for....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Empires Rise...

          Android never works properly as manufacturers tinker - different screen res and other problems. A mate with a (then) brand new Note had to wait months to get the update and even then it was buggy. People whinge about the maps on iOS 6 but for many they are actually as good or even (dare I say it) better than Google Maps. Plus it's not as if you can't put the Google Maps icon on your home page in what 5 seconds. Of course the press likes to make their mountains out of mole hills.

          My 3GS is now 4+ years old - how many Android phones are still going strong after that time - perhaps the original Nexus but not even sure if that gets the latest OS now...? What about the others.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Empires Rise...

          "and with an android handset, when you switch to a new brand, at least you get to keep all your apps you have paid for...."

          Unless you're using fucking Navigon. They lock the license to the handset (even if you buy it via the Google store) and refuse to let you use it on your new phone, without "proof that the old one is broken", which apparently would require sending it to be repaired- exactly what you do when you've just bought a new device. Failing that, you're expected to buy again.

          So they're twats, avoid. If you feel the urge to buy offline nav software for Android, both Sygic and Copilot transfer OK, and have free demo versions that you can try out.

          </rant>

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Empires Rise...

            1: Jailbreak

            2: Hakulous

            3: Download

            4: Enjoy

            IMHO, companies with Navigon's business model deserve to be pirated.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "Given that Google make the only other mobile operating system that has mass market appeal I'm not sure I follow you..."

        1,000,000's of windows phone customers may disagree.

        I suppose you own iPhone by the ridiculous comment.

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: Empires Rise...

          "1,000,000's of windows phone customers may disagree"

          Don't you mean BOTH customers? </joke>

          Seriously though, Windows Phone isn't popular. Maybe in 5-10 years time things may change, but right now sales are pretty piss weak, even with one of the most recognisable brands (Nokia) slapped on the tin.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        Mass market appeal being it's cheap shit. There's loads of people driving Ford Fiestas who would much sooner be driving a Ferrari or something flash but they can't afford to.

        The fact that Google doesn't charge anything for it is a sign that the Android business model only works because they give it away.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: people driving Ford Fiestas

          A Fiesta is more practical than a Ferrari for doing what cars are intended to do - everyday transportation. A Ferrari is nothing more than a toy or status symbol. If you want a toy/status symbol smartphone/tablet it's Apple FTW.

          1. Philip Lewis
            FAIL

            Re: people driving Ford Fiestas

            Speaking as a Ferrari owner, I would like to suggest that your notion of "what cars are intended to do" is exceedingly limited, and in fact disproven by the very existence of my Ferrari (and all other cars that seek different design goals).

            There is no doubt that the Fiesta is more practical around town as an effective, economical vehicle for personal transport than a Ferrari. However that is not the design goal for a Ferrari.

            One of my acquaintances has a 3 car garage containing a Fiat 500, a Mercedes 600 V12 and an F50. These 3 cars are designed for entirely different purposes and this real life example demonstrates how limited your vision is. They are all used extensively, depending on the varying factors in play when a vehicle is needed.

            I guess you're too poor to either own an iPhone or a Ferrari. Bad luck for you and good luck for me. However your petty jealousy and envy pours from your post, not unlike so many who frequent this forum.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Speaking as a Ferrari owner

              You misunderstand me, I'm sure Ferraris are very nice toys (I'm more of a bike person myself). For fun I'm more likely to be fixing an old banger than driving something sporty - horses for courses etc.

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: Empires Rise...

      Unlike the East India Company, I can pretty much guarantee Apple won't still be around 400 years after they were founded.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        Standard Oil was dismantled by decree IIRC

      2. dssf

        Re: Empires Rise... NFO,

        Nuke from orbit -- the only way to be sure.

        But, if any of Jobs is in cryo, he'll be back. His body probablymismjust in deepmsleep, waiting for a cure. If i had 20 billion, and great hope for medical science, i would have my ass frozen, ane woke. I would just hope like hell that it would not be like Mad Max, Omega Man, or Judge Dredd, or Planet of the Apes. Or, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, bee dee dee dee deetdeet.... That sounds guuud, Buck.

        But, he will be back. One way or another. Just a matter of time. And a multidimensional Time Machine.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Empires Rise...

      I agree. Having had a 3G, 3GS and now a 4 my next will be a Samsung Android device. Since Jobs have left the detail that set Apple apart has gone. Case in point: I can't back up my iPhone to iCloud because iCloud storage is less than the storage on my iPhone. It's broken. I don't think Steve would have allowed this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        @AC 14:10

        You *can* back up your phone. It just won't be free. On iCloud you can always buy more space if you want.

        :-)

        1. robin48gx

          Re: Empires Rise...

          or back it up to forgot your phone . com

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Empires Rise...

        Yes you can - I have a 64Gb iPhone with about 40Gb 'data' on it - iCloud backs up the data - the apps get reinstalled via iTunes or from Apple. Extra storage is not exactly expensive either.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Interesting euphemism

        Or does "left" mean he could return??

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Empires Rise...

      I moved away from the iphone due to the lack of the 4" form factor and with the promise of ICS on Android.

      I only returned to Apple as the iphone 5 finally has the 4" form factor and that their customer service is second to non (ten months in and my Android smartphone had a problem for which I had to send away to get repaired - several days without a smartphone is hard going).

      The only downside is that ios6 has aged, pleased to hear that a certain Jony Ives is heading up the UI changes for ios7 - if true then Apple will continue to lead rather than follow....... interesting times ahead!

      1. Chet Mannly

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "their customer service is second to non (ten months in and my Android smartphone had a problem for which I had to send away to get repaired - several days without a smartphone is hard going)."

        Not sure where you are posting from, but in Australia Apple will also swap your phone over straight away, BUT only after you make an appointment in advance, to attend an Apple store in a far flung suburb, not in the capital city where I bought the phone.

        Appointments were all a week away so it made no difference - I was still without a working phone for several days in the end, and had to travel 20+kms to get it fixed.

        Not saying it wont take a week to send an android away and get a working phone (never had to so I dunno), but in the end the difference is pretty small

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Empires Rise...

          Australia is really fucking big (for the non aussies here) and sparesely populated - 20km is regarded as "just down the street". Fuck, I have been known to drive 150km to go to the pub!

      2. Mark .

        Re: Empires Rise...

        "their customer service is second to non"

        Yeah right, you only have to sue them to get service: http://forums.reghardware.com/post/1566157

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Most religions are in decline nowadays.

    1. John Latham

      Behold....

      ...AAPL closed at 666 the day before Steve popped his round-cornered clogs and it's been going to hell ever since.

      1. SiempreTuna

        Re: Behold....

        Funny.

        Wrong, but funny.

        AAPL didn't break 600 until March 2012. I forget when Jobs died, but APPL was trading somewhere under 400 for most of 2011.

        1. Trevor Marron

          Re: Behold....

          Who? AAPL or APPL? Make your mind up!

    2. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      RE: Most religions are in decline nowadays.

      The Church of Jobs: just like any other religion, though with a whole bunch more virgins.

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    fads ...

    come and go

  4. Da Weezil

    Purely cost for me.. its just too much money to be toting around.

    Its nice.. but over priced.. and I am adult enough to be able to know what I am prepared to pay for something - and not go beyond that - no matter how much eye candy is involved.

  5. Paul Shirley

    maybe tired seeing others getting real innovation quicker

    At some point even the frothiest of fanbois have to notice that this years new innovations are increasingly things Apple previously swore they would not do. Things they took the time to publicly claim were mistakes when their competition did them, hard to not notice that the competition did them 1st since Apple pointed that out to all that would listen.

    Cool is a poor substitute for functionality. When iPhone started it was ahead on both. Now its not and even the deliberately blind can't continue lying to themselves about that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: maybe tired seeing others getting real innovation quicker

      Not accurate.

      The 7" market was non-existent when the iPad was launched and the 10" was what punters wanted (proof by iPad sales v. all 7" tablets combined). The market has matured a bit since then and now there is in fact a market for a medium sized device (not sure how big though). No fail by Apple here, then or now.

      The bigger screen iPhone is bigger without materially compromising the objectives of the single size doctrine - single hand operation and identical interface experience for apps. No fail there either.

      Dweeb

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: maybe tired seeing others getting real innovation quicker

        "Not accurate.

        The 7" market was non-existent when the iPad was launched and the 10" was what punters wanted (proof by iPad sales v. all 7" tablets combined). The market has matured a bit since then and now there is in fact a market for a medium sized device (not sure how big though). No fail by Apple here, then or now.

        The bigger screen iPhone is bigger without materially compromising the objectives of the single size doctrine - single hand operation and identical interface experience for apps. No fail there either.

        Dweeb"

        Who supplies your information, Al jazeera?

        What an absolute wacking pile of shite!

        Stop your poor attempts at justifying your folly.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: maybe tired seeing others getting real innovation quicker

          "Who supplies your information, Al jazeera?"

          Hmm who supplies your information Fox news?

    2. Paul 135
      WTF?

      The reality distortion field seems to affect even the non iCultists

      "Cool is a poor substitute for functionality. When iPhone started it was ahead on both."

      NO IT WAS NOT! It had a capacitive touch-screen - that is all. The original iPhone was a terrible device -- 2G only, no application support, no GPS, terrible non-autofocus 2MP camera, poor bluetooth, no front camera, no memory expansion, no FM radio, stupid micro-SIM tray, non-user removable battery, inferior touch-only keyboard, alarms not working when device is off, poor standby, a rip-off price.

      Some of the terrible design decisions in the original iPhone still persist to this day, with many other manufacturers copying this form-over-function design for the sake of fashion.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The reality distortion field seems to affect even the non iCultists

        You obviously never owned one!

        The SIM point is wrong - a dead giveaway.

        ignoring rest of post based on zero knowledge

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The reality distortion field seems to affect even the non iCultists

        Yet mine is still in daily use, battery lasts longer than an S2 or a S3 (more functionality than those devices then :-) )

        No micro sim tray, standard sim.

        No application support...hmm looks at all the apps on my phone..if you say so..

        poor bluetooth..works for a headset..

        no memory expansion...hmm which android devices can you expand the memory on, note not the onboard storage, but the memory you're complaining about...

        Touch only keyboard...aha You're a bitter blackberry user...that explains all.. So how's RIM decisions on hard keyboards and removeable batteries working for them huh?

        1. Paul 135
          Facepalm

          Re: The reality distortion field seems to affect even the non iCultists

          Find your battery comment dubious though can't comment on the Samdung batteries myself, but as for the rest:

          SIM/Micro-SIM -- whatever, was speaking off the top of my head, and SIM trays are still turd (and so are micro-SIMs for that matter)

          I don't recall application support when the WhyPhone "started" and receiving all the hype. Far from "ahead".

          It may work for a headset, but that's hardly what I would call "ahead".

          Flash storage is a form of memory -- stop trying to twist my words.

          Nope, not a Blackberry user -- BlackberryOS just as proprietary as WhyOS -- Android QWERTY slider all the way.

  6. bolccg
    Meh

    Not a big fan of Apple

    Quite the contrary in fact, but that still sounds like a very good number, considering many people will not actually switch out and some will switch in from other suppliers?

    What sort of percentage say the same from other manufacturers?

  7. CloudDog23

    The lightning connector, the lack of innovation in iOS and the iPad 4 have made me eye the Nexus 4 as my next phone.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    People seem mostly to be buying Galaxy S IIIs and smaller HTCs

    If walking through trains on the Metropolitan line is any judge. The GSIIIs really do have been a huge hit.

    I'd love to know why people are starting to choose Android-I suspect big screens was part of it, and maybe the widget desktop letting you see what the weather's going to be? Who knows.

    1. BillG
      FAIL

      Re: People seem mostly to be buying Galaxy S IIIs and smaller HTCs

      Agree here. Those GS3 commercials are a HUGE hit and it strikes directly at Apple's core. High school kids are bragging about updating, rooting, and expanding their Android phones while their Apple classmates sit in silence. Meanwhile, Apple keeps showing itself a brand hypocrite with Foxconn abuses and patent lawsuits.

      So, Apple is not compassionate, not leading-edge, and not cool. Destroying their own brand..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: People seem mostly to be buying Galaxy S IIIs and smaller HTCs

      Big screens and better sound - a ringer you can actually hear.

  9. RobE
    FAIL

    Not a fan

    Is it just me or does the iPhone5 already feel like old technology? The problem is they have (for a breif period) proven they can be innovative, however now, they are proving the opposite with their iPhone 5 - its the same as the 4S as far as most owners are concerned and they're locked in for another year or two with the same tech they had previous ( minus the maps of course ) ... no wonder ppl are beginning to lose interest.

    1. Battsman
      Pint

      Re: Not a fan

      At the last launch, I tried to point out that the last couple of iPhones had seemed iterative at best and was resoundingly shouted down by Crapple fanbois. What is the point of the standard Crapple push for yearly handset churn when:

      1) Most users are locked into a 2 year contract.

      2) The "brand new" phone is only an interation of capability from the previous version and/or very similar to the capability of other phones on the market.

      3) It includes major issues like iOS maps.

      I mean what is the point for the consumer? - From the perspective of Crapple, they definitely want their users churning over to a new iDevice every year.

      Is there any thing worse than a rabid, unquestioning fan?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not a fan

        1) No. That is a situation peculiar to markets that allow it.

        2) Yes indeed, and I may choose an iPhone5 to replace my 3GS. I detest the Android model, so reject it as an option.

        3) Apple dropped the ball and have admitted it. Next.

        There is no point in buying a new car before the wheels fall off according to you.

        Ownership of an iPhone does not make one a fanbois.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Stop

          Re: Not a fan

          > I detest the Android model

          Which one? There are a lot to choose from.

          1. Mikey
            Trollface

            Re: Not a fan

            > I detest the Android model

            Maybe he has an irrational fear of choice? Would certainly explain it.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not a fan

          " I detest the Android model"

          Which android model? They don't all look the same! Something that can't be said for iclone.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not a fan

            iclone? You mean the one Samsung made? ;-)

        3. tony
          Happy

          Re: Not a fan

          "2) Yes indeed, and I may choose an iPhone5 to replace my 3GS. I detest the Android model, so reject it as an option."

          Then

          "Which one? There are a lot to choose from."

          & "Which android model? They don't all look the same! Something that can't be said for iclone."

          & "Maybe he has an irrational fear of choice? Would certainly explain it."

          Did IQs drop sharply around here? Obviously the OP is not talking about the various models of the phone, but the model of OS distinct from hardware.

          And I'm not commenting on whether the OP is right on that or not, but one thing I feel about people who vehemently defend their choice of purchase, whether thats Apple or Android (or any other product for that matter), they've obviously got doubts they made the correct choice.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not a fan

            "the Android model" was clearly unclear to at least on poster here. The phrase was intended to refer to the process from design, code, deployment to manufactures, carrier intervention, Google intervention etc. etc etc. of the Android the OS. Android is not a phone, it is an OS.

            I don't actually WANT a phone where the OS is designed by a committee and manged by boy scouts and deployed by the author, manufacturers and carriers with interests widely divergent from the consumer (me). The upgrade history for Android devices is also appalling, and I would prefer my phones to remain current for more than 5 minutes. Samsung is still selling Android phones running v2.3 ffs.

            (thanks tony for noting what I thought was blindingly obvious)

            1. daiakuma

              Re: Not a fan

              Android is not designed by committee. One person has been in charge of the project ever since it was founded (by him and a few of his mates) in 2003. The person is Andy Rubin. Since 3.0, one man has been in charge of the GUI aspects. That's Mattias Duarte (and he answers directly to Andy Rubin, of course). If you see them interviewed, you will see that these guys very much take personal ownership - and pride - in the work they are doing. And they really do have the end-user in mind. Their ambition is to make the OS as elegant, powerful, smooth and flexible as possible. And, to my mind, they're doing a very good job of that.

              Complaining about Samsung selling Android 2.3 phones is really missing the point. Those phones are low-end devices being sold mostly to people who would not be able to afford a proper smartphone if Android didn't exist. If you want the latest software, either buy the latest premium device from an OEM, or buy a Nexus.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not a fan

        "At the last launch, I tried to point out that the last couple of iPhones had seemed iterative at best and was resoundingly shouted down by Crapple fanbois. What is the point of the standard Crapple push for yearly handset churn when:

        1) Most users are locked into a 2 year contract."... for which they paid peanuts for the phone, yet iPhone users site "desirability and premium product" as a major selling point. (the iPhone is cool and expensive therefore I am cool factor)

        Really, all the chavs have an iPhone. Every pikey and their chavvy lass have one.

        If you see iPhone users, you know to s p e a k s l o w l y so they can undertsand what is going on around them.

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: Not a fan

          . 1) Most users are locked into a 2 year contract."... for which they paid peanuts for the phone,

          They may have paid a 'peanuts' deposit but they paid large for the phone. It was just paid for monthly instead of upfront.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not a fan

        "Is there any thing worse than a rabid, unquestioning fan?"

        Yes, there is some thing(sic) worse, twelve year-olds who write "Crapple" or Micro$soft, no matter which bit of consumer electronics they fap over.

    2. Eric Olson

      Re: Not a fan

      I wonder how much has to do with changes by the wireless companies, though. Here in the States, Verizon (and others, since they aren't an industry leader so much as an industry optimizer) has done away with the ability to purchase a phone with new two-year contract regardless of how much was left on the old contract. Instead, if you aren't "upgrade eligible", you pay full retail with the option to "trade-in" and sell back your old phone. However, it's rarely enough to cover the difference between full retail and subsidized prices (my old-tech HTC Incredible will fetch a whole $16).

      So you are locked into that two year upgrade cycle unless you have lots of cash in your pockets. A Galaxy S3 with 32GB will set you back $100 less at retail price than a 32GB iPhone 5. Is that $100 really worth it since the two devices are comparable in many ways if you strip out the stupid brand loyalty wars? And even if you like your iPhone 4, but want a larger screen or better battery, can you really stomach that retail price? If you were going to upgrade regardless, maybe you figure that while the iPhone 5 is nice, it might be worth it to give the Galaxy S3 or RAZR HD phones a chance (I kind of like my wife's new RAZR HD) since they cost less. I just don't see the cost-benefit to upgrade, unless the refresh of the iPhone 5 ends up being more than just an Intel tick (die shrink, same architecture).

      With the way I use my phone (less phone, more media, internet, calendar device), though, the Galaxy Note 2 might be a better option for me, and that's something Apple, in terms of size and features, can't compete on right now.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmph

    Well, I have no strong pro/anti opinions, I use whatever works for me at the time.. but I have to say that right now, Apple are a bit.. dull.

    Making a thinner IMac or a longer phone isn't all that interesting. If I am going to drop a chunk of change on their latest and greatest, I expect something a little audacious or unusual- especially if I am to put up with various bits of lockdown.

    Maybe it's too early to call it, but this recent barrage of "product" does feel a little like some shark jumping. It seems to be just a revenue drive for the quarterly financials, rather than delivering product which shake up or define some market segment or other.

    The iPhone 5? It looks OK, I suppose. I am not that excited by it, nor am I driven mad with hatred. If someone were to give me one, I'd tinker with it, but it doesn't feel like it offers anything unmissable over and above my current perfectly good smartphone (an unlocked Galaxy S3). Maybe that's the problem- "good enough" isn't always good enough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ...recent barrage of "product"

      Classic: The iRack to hold all your iStuff

    2. P. Lee Silver badge

      Re: Hmph

      Indeed. The new features don't warrant a major version jump.

      For me, the phone killer app (apart from being a phone and sms system) is cloud email and unified address books. I don't know if icloud does this, but I know my linux systems will talk nicely to google services. I'm unhappy with apple taking stuff off their kit (macs) and not actually replacing it with with anything better and its that attitude which somewhat scares me even if they did talk nicely with my suse desktop. I dislike being an advertising commodity but I dislike a lack of interoperability and function more. I also suspect apple wants to head down the advertising path and iOS will end up as bad as android games. My wife's free iOS card games certainly contain irritating adverts.

      I'm not sure what phones could add which would be new and innovative. Apple could put a PSTN link back in the mac and allow your iphone to make landline calls. Decent VOIP? How about making time-machine hardware into a decent firewall/router or voip gateway or tv recorder (with icloud subscription covering the EPG tweaking) with your iphone as the UI?

      How about making the iphone dual-sim so its usable for work and home?

  11. Sander van der Wal

    More and more kinds of customers

    The first bunch of people to buy an iPhone were much more eager to want one. Now you see the nice-to-have-one, added to the must-have-one-at-all-cost, and the must-have-one-as-my-next-device crowds. And don't forget the must-have-something-different-from-everybody-else crowd.

    BTW, it is a good thing we hadn't an internet during the days Microsoft got really big. At least people are forced to copy somebody else's take on Apple iOS news. Next time they can just reuse their own content, and do some global search-and-replaces on the pro- and antagonists. That is going to be a wonderful deja-vu experience. Can't wait for it to happen.

  12. plrndl
    Linux

    Yawn

    The iPhone is long overdue for a new look. iPhone 5 is sufficiently different for the fanbois to notice, but is same-old to normal people. Big bad Steve would have seen this. The current management are obsessed with keeping ahead of the competition in the features race, something that never bothered Jobs. He knew, as does any salesman, that punters buy benefits, not features. Only the geeks care about the specs.

  13. 0laf Silver badge
    Meh

    Innovation

    What's really 'new' and not just the same but a little bit faster, flashier, bigger/smaller?

  14. Ben Holmes
    Meh

    As the owner of a relatively new iPhone 4S, I like my phone. Granted, I don't really want to anything more complicated than send a few text messages, make a few phone calls, and occasionally read a few emails, but what it does, it does well. The hardware is pretty good. Extortionately expensive for what it is, but pretty good.

    But what really pains me about the whole Apple / iOS 'experience', is iOS itself. The bloody thing looks basically the same as it did 6 iterations ago. OK, the corners of the icons are probably slightly more round, but fundamentally nothing much has changed. In my eyes, it's like firing up a brand-spranking new laptop with the most powerful internals around, and finding its running Windows 3.1. Compare it with 6 iterations of Mac OS X and it's obvious where the development efforts have been.

    Please Apple, go away and have a play with iOS. Make it look and feel a little less 2007, and then come back to us.

  15. thesykes
    FAIL

    And next week another survey will show that iPhone owner satisfaction has increased and even more of them than last year will be getting an iPhone next time....

  16. Pheo

    Where is the source listed for these numbers? What was the sample size. Unfortunately as it stands this article doesn't allow us to evaluate if the supposed survey is statistically signifcant / well run etc. Until that point you can't really draw any firm conclusions.

    1. Toby 10

      And how does it compare to other brands?

      It may be that Samsung have a higher rating or they may have a lower rating - this rating for Apple doesn't really say much other than giving the anti-apple hordes something to froth about (and the blackberry/Windows minority something to be jealous of).

      1. Mark .

        Re: And how does it compare to other brands?

        Given the overwhelming and increasing success of Android, I'd say Android would win on any loyalty survey.

        And scoff at Blackberry all you like, but they outsold Apple for years, and it's still unclear if Apple have caught up to their numbers. Blackberry were selling smartphones years before Apple's iphone was still a dumb phone that couldn't even do apps.

  17. Andrew James

    But...

    I had a HTC for my previous two handsets and if asked 6 months ago I would say I would have another. Upgrade time arrived and I bought a Note II. Thats not to say my satisfaction with HTC declined 8n those 6 months... I just found something else I liked that wasn't from them.

    My wife isn't happy with her 4S since seeing the epic screen on my phone. But wouldnt want anything bigger. So would she go apple again? The new one is bigger.... but she likes apple. I'm rambling.

    1. TheTick
      Thumb Up

      Re: But...

      My missus was all set to get her first iphone on her next upgrade too until she saw my Note 2, and now wants a Galaxy S3 instead. That and the fact I had to sue Apple (successfully) to get a replacement for a broken 18-month old iPad took the shine out of the reality distortion field.

      1. Richard Taylor 2 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: But...

        Any details? Interested punters would love to know?

        1. TheTick

          Re: But...

          Yep, I made a short comment about it a few weeks ago about the Sale of Goods Act (which I used as the basis of my argument), here it is:

          http://forums.reghardware.com/post/1566157

          Never got to court I hasten to add.

          1. John Bailey
            Happy

            Re: But...

            Yep.. Pretty much SOP.

            Funny how the county court paperwork showing up makes people very reasonable all of a sudden.

        2. LOL123

          Re: But...

          Yes I did as well. I think the first gen were not built well and there were bad batches. The official lines of support do not address this, if you indicate you will go to small claims and give a reason they know they cannot refute, they will handle it.

  18. Big_Ted
    FAIL

    Its simply no longer cool

    My 15 year old goddaughter (who loves her iPod touch) is due for a new phone in a couple of months and I asked her if whe was going for an iPhone or an Android next time, "Neither" was her reply,"I want a Blackberry, there so mush better for messaging an stuff". She has also decided to wait till BB10 arrives so she can play with that and the older BB OS to decide which she will get.

    I have also asked around at work etc and most people want Android with those that hav an iPhone either sticking to it as they are true fanbois or sticking "cause i have too much stuff in itunes to move". No-one thinks they are cool any more and even the fanbois would like to see an update to the iOS UI to allow for widgets etc "As that would be awesum"......

  19. Philip Lewis
    Headmaster

    More likely that "the rest" now have offerings which are worth "considering". Definitely not the case for any version of Android prior to 4.1. It is very difficult to stay so far ahead of the bunch that the customer base doesn't have anywhere comparable to shop.

    No news here.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

    I see a situation where developers are going to stop developing for iOS products. Right now, Apple seem to be denying Apps based on really flimsy reasons (and in one case for me, incorrect- when I called them on it, they backed down). Add to that, some serious bugs in XCode 4.5 which also creates code that runs on iOS6 but crashes on iOS5; and an increasing number of screen resolutions to support; one of the things iOS developers have always bragged about over Android developers is that they only have to program for one screen size; not any more.

    I find myself in a position now where I am having to request payment upfront from any client looking for an iOS App and also pointing out to them that I cannot guarantee that Apple will allow their App to be made available on the App Store.

    1. Steve Todd

      Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

      Two resolutions (standard and high DPI for both), plus the new iPhone 5 which will happily run with the older phone resolutions (and the change has been mitigated by the new auto reflow APIs) and you're complaining? You've not tried developing for Android I'd guess.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

        > You've not tried developing for Android I'd guess.

        I think that his point is that the small number of display sizes is no longer an advantage to developing for iOS, which Apple previously could claim.

        1. Steve Todd
          Stop

          Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

          You have iPhone sized (low and high dpi), iPad (low and high dpi), plus now the iPhone 5 with some extra height. The only thing you need do to support it in addition to the 4S and prior is use the new Auto Reflow API, which will sort your forms out for you. You can test both iPhone resolutions on a 5 if you need to. This is a problem compared to the huge range of Android screen sized and DPIs?

          1. M Gale

            Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

            screenWidth = whateverHandler.screenWidth

            screenHeight = whateverHandler.screenHeight

            unitWidth = arbitrary_number

            unitHeight = arbitrary_number

            scaleWidth = screenWidth / unitWidth

            scaleHeight = screenHeight / unitHeight

            function coordScale(xPos, yPos){

            return [xPos * scaleWidth, yPos * scaleHeight]

            }

            No I'm not a phone developer, but is the above pseudocode really that hard?

            1. Chet Mannly

              Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

              "is the above pseudocode really that hard?"

              No, but how does all the changes in screen size affect your UI? Layouts/proportions all change, especially with the longer iphone 5 screen - its not just a case of specifying different pixel dimensions...

            2. AndrewInIreland

              Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

              >No I'm not a phone developer, but is the above pseudocode really that hard?

              No not hard at all, but it barely scratches the surface of the requirements for different screen sizes. You also have to consider image scaling and font sizing. Also your pseudo code is going to add a lot of 'interesting' aspect issues...

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. M Gale

                Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

                It was just a quick 30 second back-of-a-<textarea> sketch. I know it's a little more complex than that, but for particularly games that run full-screen and don't use the built-in UI widgets, it's not much more complex. The idea is that you never use px values. Use an arbitrary unit of your own definition (let's say millimetres, em-spaces, linguines or dragonlengths) and then define how many pixels that means later, when you can get the current device's screen height and width.

                As for stuff that uses the UI widgets, well I think someone already mentioned Apple having a smart re-flow tool. As for Android, the page at http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html shows this is a done deal and something that's quite comprehensively explained. Basically the answer to how you support many screen sizes is "you don't have to, it scales itself, but here's some methods to make it look even nicer."

                Also hm, this thing has stopped understanding hypertext. <i>Well foo.</i>

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Plus, Apple are very busy alienating developers...

        Wrong, I develop for both iOS and Android.

  21. rurwin
    FAIL

    fanbois get burned

    So you're an Apple fanboi. You want the latest and the best. So back in June 2007 you bought an iPhone on a 30 month contract (otherwise you couldn't have afforded it.) A year later you had an obsolete device. That wasn't cool, but you were an early adopter. "yes", you said, "this is an old phone; it was one of the first batch in the country."

    Then along comes December 2009, Finally you could ditch the old tech and buy the new 3GS that everyone had been waving in your face for the last six months. Another 30 month contract, and six months later the new iPhone 4 comes out, and you have to start explaining that it isn't an ancient iPhone 3, it's a 3GS, which is nearly as cool as a 4. At least the 4S was late and a disappointment, but you're still two generations behind.

    Finally it's June 2012, and you rush out an get a 4S on another long contract. But a mere three months later Apple release the 5, and it is obviously a new phone. No mere slimming down and bezel detailing on this one, the thing is much longer and instantly recognisable. Your old 4S immediately looks like a fossil, even to you.

    And then some survey git stops you in the street and asks you if your next phone will be an iPhone.

    1. Andy 115

      Obviously not much of a "fanboi"…

      If you don't know (based on past cycles and rumours) when the new ones are out…

      There is nothing FORCING people to upgrade the moment their contract ends; if you were coming out of multi-year contract in June 2012, more-fool-you if you didn't have the patience to wait for the updated phone that (on past cycles) would be released in 3 months.

      In the EU there is a maximum of a 24 month contract on phones.

      Why is the device obsolete when a new one is released, does it suddenly stop working? Does is stop getting updates?

      1. Chet Mannly

        Re: Obviously not much of a "fanboi"…

        "Why is the device obsolete when a new one is released, does it suddenly stop working?"

        No, but if you had read his post properly you'd understand he was saying its less cool (and therefore of less value) when it isn't the latest and greatest, especially when you're talking Apple.

    2. Paw Bokenfohr
      Stop

      Re: fanbois get burned

      30 month contract?!?

      I have a hard limit at 18 months and prefer 12. If I can't afford the phone I want on an 18 month contract at a monthly price I want to pay, I don't get the phone. 30 months is an insane amount of time to sign up to a phone contract for. Surely you must be in the US?

  22. Peter Storm

    I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

    they can come up with something new and different. A "must have" new product. As with the original iPhone or the iPad.

    I'm no Apple fanboi and I only got my 3GS a few years ago purely because the Ordinance Survey map app I wanted was only available on iOS at the time. I must say that it has been a really good piece of kit (apart from the battery life).

    I only decided to replace it because my daughter's phone was on its last legs and her MP3 player had died.

    When I looked at the iPhone 5, I just wasn't that impressed. I mean it looks nice and I'm sure it performs well, but would have cost me a fair bit extra on my contract for doing more or less exactly what my old phone did, just a bit quicker.

    In the end I got a 4GS. Hardly any difference in spec from the 5, and less money a month on my contract.

    Apple need to be careful and not rest on their laurels. I'm thinking of another fruit based company who had a "must have" mobile product a little while back.

    1. the-it-slayer
      Megaphone

      Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

      Nail on the head opinion for me. The 3GS > 4 jump was serious business and got me buying as I didn't understand Apple's hesistancy in hardware tech with previous generations. However, the 4/4S > 5 doesn't really mean much. Yes, the screen is taller, the software is par now as Maps has been destroyed and didn't really add anything new technology wise (NFC etc).

      Maybe we're all too demanding on the smartphone stakes. There's only so much technology out there ready for consumer consumption.

      iOS is still light years ahead in UI experience, so much decision to go to the iP5 will be based on that purely. I may give the Nokia 920 a go. Android is dead for me (won't touch it with a barge pole) and RIM is the only other option if they can pull out a miracle magic trick with BB10.

      Maybe the future is no smartphone and we allow a small device to connect to the mobile network and then refeed the audio through 7" tablets/bluetooth?

      1. Mark .

        Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

        "iOS is still light years ahead in UI experience"

        Did you finally get copy/paste?

        "Maybe the future is no smartphone and we allow a small device to connect to the mobile network and then refeed the audio through 7" tablets/bluetooth?"

        I fit that 7" device in my pocket how?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

      I don't really think they are resting on their laurels - they managed a larger phone that was lighter and thinner and to upgrade the OS at the same time. You have to look at any phone and the next one will always be a fairly minor upgrade - twice the CPU (so), higher res screen (so) etc. But the whole user experience (unless you are in the re-flasher club) is far superior on iOS.

      The only Android devices I would use would be standard distributions without all the manufacturer cr@p - you just end up with a disjointed experience and the security issues with Android are enough to scare normal users if they really understood it.

      1. Chet Mannly

        Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

        "I don't really think they are resting on their laurels - they managed a larger phone that was lighter and thinner and to upgrade the OS at the same time. "

        You mean like Samsung, LG, HTC et al are doing every *6 months* or so?

        Sure the iPhone 5 has a taller screen and is thinner, but compared to the competition they are barely treading water development-wise.

        To be fair though, that is fairly standard for Apple - look at OSX - there's been nothing beyond incremental development for probably a decade now...

    3. Ivan Headache

      " for doing more or less exactly what my old phone did, just a bit quicker."

      Isn't that the case with any new phone?

      An extra bell or whistle but basically doing more or less exactly what my old phone did, just a bit quicker.

    4. Mark .

      Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

      The original iphone was not a must have product - sales were poor, the entire platform sold less than one single symbian model from Nokia. It was only since iphone 4 that sales have risen to be reasonable (though still way behind Android, and 3rd place behind Samsung and Nokia).

      The ipad was never a must have product. Most people don't have one. It's just that it got vast amounts of free advertising from the media, even before it was announced.

      The glory days have more been in the way that the vocal minority and the media have given them so much hype - and I agree, it is looking increasingly laughable as other platforms move so far in front of them, in both performance and sales.

      1. Chet Mannly

        Re: I think Apple's glory days may be over unless...

        "The ipad was never a must have product. Most people don't have one. It's just that it got vast amounts of free advertising from the media, even before it was announced."

        And when it was announced all those said media companies released paid apps for the ipad - funny that!

        Media companies saw it as a way to charge for internet content, that's why they were promoting it for all they are worth (and still are...)

  23. Steve Todd

    Silly question

    But what are the retention numbers for the rest of the marketplace? What percentage of Samsung or HTC owners for example intend sticking with the brand next time? Without that context you can't say a lot about these numbers (and be honest, your average member of the public couldn't give two hoots over who is suing whom when it comes to choosing their kit).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Silly question

      Nokia used to have a legendary loyalty rating. More or less zero now. I haven't researched it lately, but it is one of the numbers that predated Nokia's fall from the heights. Just saying ...

      1. Steve Todd
        Stop

        Re: Silly question

        But Nokia's reduced retention rate could be compared to the rest of the market (their's went down, others went up), this lacks any context still.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Silly question

        The current situation with the Nokia 920 exclusive will send it into negative figures.

      3. Mark .

        Re: Silly question

        That fall that still leaves them as number two, second only to Samsung, and way outselling Apple...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Silly question

      Retention / loyalty for the rest of the market will be far lower. Who would buy a Samsung if Asus / HTC / anyone came out with a better Android - oh or for that matter Motorola.

      If I were an Android handset maker I would be very worried about Motorola - Google will want to get their moneys worth out of it and when people like Amazon strip Android bare it's not helping Google!

      1. Steve Todd

        Re: Silly question

        There's also the question of what proportion of Android users are considering moving to a different OS (shocking though the thought may be to many of the comentards around here, but not everyone likes it).

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: Silly question

          "There's also the question of what proportion of Android users are considering moving to a different OS"

          I think that would be fairly low *right now* because the real alternative is iOS, and that doesn't have any new features that would tempt people to change.

          Different story if Apple come up with something new and ground breaking, but right now if you chose Android over iOS in the past, there's not really any new iOS features to make you reconsider.

          Of course if you hate Android you wouldn't have one in the first place...

          1. Steve Todd
            Stop

            Re: Silly question

            I hate to break this to you, but most people are more interested in available software and ease of use than new features. Having spent a couple of years on contract with a slow, laggy, hard to set up Android phones, with an app store full of dubious software then there are many people who are prepared to look at Apple devices as a possible replacement.

    3. Mark .

      Re: Silly question

      You'd want to compare by platform, not manufacturer. Consider, I have the Galaxy Nexus, and with the amazing Nexus 4 announcement, I may stick with a Nexus phone when I upgrade. But hang on, the Nexus phones are now made by LG - so you're saying I'm disloyal, even though I've stuck with the Google Nexus phones?

      More generally, the problem with comparing loyalty is that it simply punishes companies that are similar. Consider if 90% of people like companies A and B, but switch evenly between A and B. Meanwhile, company C has 10% share, who are loyal to them.

      So companies A and B have loyalty 50%, whilst C has 100%. But it is ludicrous to imply that C is more popular! It isn't, by far. Nor does it mean that C will become more popular - in my example, all three companies are stable.

      Consider a modification: C now has 90% loyalty, with 10% moving evenly to A or B. So now, A and B will rise in popularity, whilst C is falling, despite it having higher loyalty!

      So that's why even a seemingly high figure of 75% is devastating for the iphone platform. Looking at the loyalty of other companies doesn't tell us the full picture, as changes there may just be people shifting between different Android manufacturers.

  24. xyz
    FAIL

    It's the current adverts (and the phone)

    I'm a flat out Apple hater, and as the people above have noted the new phone is just the same old pants given an ironing from a presentation perspective. However the one thing that is stand out a sales killer is the new adverts from Apple. Their target customer appears to be some loser middle aged daddy in brown slacks with a "cool" lobotomy. Maybe they're going for a new market segment the way webuyanycar did or tracking an aging customer base like porsche did, but the upshot in any event is that those ads are so uncool, if I had an iPhone, I'd bury it at midnight.....say "cheeeeeeeeeeese"...ghastly. If they took a panorama shot of a beach party and then showed the photo applied to a surfboard they'd make a packet. A pack of rugrats in costume in a picture frame on a wall just reeks of Mr. Average and his boring missus.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's the current adverts (and the phone)

      Having read a "BMW Magazine" at lunchtime while I waited for my car MOT to be done I saw plenty of premium products listed in there. This is the market they target, higher income bracket as they know all too well that people who have a lot of money and care about their image want premium brands.

      Personally I've tended to buy what does the job and what is a cut above. That used to be the iPhone for me but no longer.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's the current adverts (and the phone)

        "This is the market they target, higher income bracket as they know all too well that people who have a lot of money and care about their image want premium brands."

        The very same people who do not realise that their image is tarnished by being seen with an underwhelming limited feature phone such as iPhone.

        Its dead, get over it! Move on, nothing worth seeing.

  25. Code Monkey
    Thumb Up

    Loyalty

    The idea of loyalty to a nobile phone (of any brand) is laughable to me.

    1. Code Monkey
      Mushroom

      Re: Loyalty

      *mobile - damnable sausage fingers!

    2. Philip Lewis
      Joke

      Re: Loyalty

      .. or a nubile one for that matter

  26. TheOtherHobbes

    A generous interpretation of Forstall's departure

    is that Cook realises iOS badly needs some new shiny, and new shiny wasn't going to happen while Forstall was in charge.

    A less generous interpretation is that there was too much board-level ego wank from everyone and Forstall got pushed through the window because of personality clashes.

    iOS 7 will make or break the iPhone. If it doesn't give the fanbois some good reasons to start feeling special again, there's going to a stampede towards Samsung.

    Right now I'm not seeing evidence of likely change, because Cook isn't an innovator - or at least, he thinks smaller+thinner+retina equals innovation, when obviously it doesn't.

    Ive might be. But getting from iOS to iOS+ is a tough call, and I'm not convinced he's going to do it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A generous interpretation of Forstall's departure

      One suggestion is that the Apple board are all as rich as rich bankers and, like the bankers, now see themselves as masters of the universe who can do no wrong. Jobs was clearly driven by many insecurities. It wouldn't be the first time a successful one man business or empire was wrecked because the successors thought that they had all this power through their own merits. See Gibbon, for one, for details.

      However, Google have just made a 4.7 inch 1280 by 720 screen practically the entry level - just over £200 sim free - and this must surely create market ripples; higher performance than an iPhone for the 90+ percent that won't be getting LTE for a long while, at half the price. And there are interesting new market entrants - Huawei, Lenovo, and Asus - doing things differently. Competition in the Android world will be really hotting up. Galaxy Note 2? Padfone 2? Nexus 4 plus Nexus 7? These are all machines with USPs that should outlast and outperform the current iPhones, and all Google and its partners have to do is to focus on software because the hardware is already ahead.

      1. the-it-slayer

        Re: A generous interpretation of Forstall's departure

        > One suggestion is that the Apple board are all as rich as rich bankers and, like the bankers, now see themselves as masters of the universe who can do no wrong. Jobs was clearly driven by many insecurities. It wouldn't be the first time a successful one man business or empire was wrecked because the successors thought that they had all this power through their own merits. See Gibbon, for one, for details.

        Well, it would be Apple without Jobs like before in the late 80s/early 90s. No direction and thinking their success would be enough to steer them though. Luckily, they have people like Ive who has the same passion/drive as Jobs. If he ever left, you'd know Apple would be up crap street. He'd be perfect to lead Apple but maybe there's too much power mongering going on at Apple now we're outside the year since Jobs left window. Whether these products were the last of Jobs' imagination (we knew that that he had signed off certain devices / projects just before he died), we'll see next time around.

        > However, Google have just made a 4.7 inch 1280 by 720 screen practically the entry level - just over £200 sim free - and this must surely create market ripples; higher performance than an iPhone for the 90+ percent that won't be getting LTE for a long while, at half the price. And there are interesting new market entrants - Huawei, Lenovo, and Asus - doing things differently. Competition in the Android world will be really hotting up. Galaxy Note 2? Padfone 2? Nexus 4 plus Nexus 7? These are all machines with USPs that should outlast and outperform the current iPhones, and all Google and its partners have to do is to focus on software because the hardware is already ahead.

        You can continue to utter out gibberish. There's reasons why Apple products are above everyone else. That's because they're valued as a premium product and produced as premium products. Android products can offer all budget alternatives as they want, but none of them ever last in the hands of their owner and never keep their value. I'll say this again, it's not all about who has the biggest spec numbers. I know that means much more to fandroids than anything else, but means diddly squat on how the phone works when you're all secretly complaining about things that you'll gladly put up with because it isn't anything else but Android.

        1. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
          Gimp

          Re: A generous interpretation of Forstall's departure

          You are totally misguided. If I saw an ipad/iphone on ebay for only £5 I still would not buy it. Apple have always sold underpowered/overpriced equipment that does not use standard connectors.

          FFS the ipad does not even have USB port or card reader, you can't get itunes in my local pub you know. So sharing a few photos is not possible. That is a f*ing big FAIL

          Also the resale value of all mobile devices is likely to be very low because there will be millions of them.

          If you want to be in a cult and never have to think for yourself then join the moonies. Good luck with that!

        2. Chet Mannly

          Re: A generous interpretation of Forstall's departure

          "when you're all secretly complaining about things that you'll gladly put up with because it isn't anything else but Android."

          You mean like putting up with a maps app that can't find places, and listed a place called Berlin in Antarctica?

          Oh, wait...

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pricer is higher, it delivers less and the quality is worse. It's far from being the fresh innovative product it was in 2007.

    1. Philip Lewis
      Paris Hilton

      AC @31st October 2012 14:57 GMT Anonymous Coward

      Delivers less?

      Talk about blinded by hate/ignorance/stupidity

  28. RyokuMas Silver badge
    Joke

    Could it be...

    ... because Siri recommended that the Lumia 800 was better?

  29. Andy Kay
    Boffin

    RE: sticking with the brand next time

    surely it depends what the manufacturer has available at the time. I thought I'd get another HTC after 3 years of ownership. I saw the Samsung Galaxy Note II and what it could do so I bought that last week. One thing is clear: it won't be an Apple device

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "iPopularity is in a state of decline, with "Apple loyalty" said to have fallen for the first time since the iPhone's 2007 release. "

    iPhone is dead. Simple as that.

    What may have been innovative in 2007 is not 5 YEARS later.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Samsung could fall quicker than Apple. People are loyal to Apple / iOS - partly as they go hand in hand. Samsung are just another Android maker - Google could upset them with their purchase of Motorola or HTC / someone else could come out with the new 'best' Android phone = bye bye Samsung.

    If I were Samsung I would be feeling more vulnerable than Apple.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Samsung could fall quicker than Apple. People are loyal to Apple / iOS - partly as they go hand in hand. Samsung are just another Android maker - Google could upset them with their purchase of Motorola or HTC / someone else could come out with the new 'best' Android phone = bye bye Samsung.

      If I were Samsung I would be feeling more vulnerable than Apple."

      Or in the real world, Samsung are not tied to one product/ecosystem and are partners for various OS suppliers. More eggs in more baskets.

      Apple have only a small user base and they have to work harder to make them believe that their purchase was not folly in the first place.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Saumsung just lost of one it's major customers - Apple. They basically make all their profit on selling the phones - until Asus / HTC / someone comes out with a better one.

        1. Chet Mannly

          "They basically make all their profit on selling the phones"

          Except the profits they make on TV's of course. And computers. And Blu-ray players, home theatre systems, oh and whitegoods. And of course all their electronic components and manufacturing plants. And OLED patents and production. And...

          Apple are the ones limited to just phones and computers - if Samsuing stopped selling twice as many smartphones as Apple tomorrow Samsung would survive. Doubt Apple would be doing so well if their iphone/ipad business stopped...

    2. tybalt

      Arguably this just happened, in the form of the Nexus 4. Costs £279 unlocked for a 16gb version, processor is on a par with that of iPhone 5 (quad-core snapdragon s4). Screen is a proper IPS LCD and is around 720 in the small direction (and is 4.7 inches diag.). Plus it will get OS updates from google.

      Probably wont play nicely with outlook/exchange activesync out of the box though, so if that's a factor it might be out. Unless you are OK with Touchdown or similar.

      1. Chet Mannly

        "Probably wont play nicely with outlook/exchange activesync out of the box though,"

        Why? My SGS2 picks up my corporate email through exchange no problem, took nearly 30 whole seconds for the IT guy to set it up.

  32. HelenaHandcart

    All about connections

    If you have to uglify your super-cool speaker dock with an adaptor then you can choose whether to go for an iPhone 5 lightning cable/adaptor or an audio cable for your an Android phone. The Lightning connector means that people's accessories no longer tie them to the iHardware.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All about connections

      Many devices support Airplay or are Bluetooth devices - I don't really get why people would want to 'dock' these days - yes I guess it charges the device but so... and what if you are using an iPad / other devices. Wireless streaming is the way forward. As for the connector - simply it's far better than the old dock connector and better than micro USB - it's what micro USB should have been.

      Plug it in either way - so much better than fiddling with getting it the 'right' way.

      1. HelenaHandcart

        Re: All about connections

        Docks might not be the best way of connecting devices to speakers but if you already have docks then there is a strong incentive to buy a device that connects to them - even if you actually prefer an alternative product. The accessories provide an 'ecosystem' that ties you to the original device brand. Once the original brand ceases to connect to the accessories then you are free to look around and may well choose something different. Whether the lighting connector is better is not the point; it's that the lightning connector breaks the accessories 'ecosystem' that has helped to keep people buying ipods/iphones.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All about connections

        Docks double as chargers for the most part.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All about connections

      At least you can get docks for Apple devices manufacturers dont really bother for other handsets.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perhaps people should be happy with their own choice of phone / tablet rather than slagging off anyone else. Imagine we did this with cars and started honking, shouting abuse.

    I pick a phone that I consider works best for me - it may or may not be the phone for you.

    Phone rage?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @AC

      Stop bringing your logical thinking here. Where do you think you are?

      Obviously not thereg.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AC

        Sorry. Let's get back to hating <lol>.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    iPhone/pad:

    Why no wireless charging?

    Ah, Nokia beat them too it.

    Why no NFC?

    An, Samsung beat them to it.

    See a pattern?

    And people wonder why Apple are not seen as innovators any more (not that anyone with 1 brain cell thought otherwise).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wireless charging is a nice idea but it's not practical. So I need a charging pad in my car, one for the office, one in the house and perhaps another for my laptop bag - how much are extra pads (probably more than a simple cable).

      Is the same pad definitely going to work with other manufacturers? Can it charge a tablet at 2 amps wirelessly?

      Does it make the device bigger - you have to ask yourself is plugging the thing in once or twice or dropping it onto a dock all that much hard work? Also it only charges - connectors can also do data and even have control signals for other devices.

      1. Chet Mannly

        "So I need a charging pad in my car, one for the office, one in the house"

        How crap is your battery life? I charge my phone overnight, that's all I need, and I use it pretty heavily

        "Is the same pad definitely going to work with other manufacturers?"

        There are common standards set, so the intent is for all devices to work. Unless a manufacturer specifically chooses to make theirs incompatible.

        "Does it make the device bigger"

        The only one I've seen in real life is the Samsung one, and it was exactly the same size as a regular SGS3 (just a different battery cover), so no, it isn't any bigger (or doesn't have to be...)

        "it only charges - connectors can also do data"

        You mean like bluetooth and wifi do data?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nokia didn't beat the to it unless you claim they invented the technology. Apple and the other manufacturers have just chosen not to include it - perhaps it's bulky, expensive etc. I have seen slip on 'skins' for phones with that technology added - they basically double the thickness of the phone = non starter.

      1. Mark .

        It's the textbook Apple response to a lacking feature: "It's better not to have it!"

        Yet when they do finally add the feature, you'll be first in line saying how revolutionary Apple are to have such a feature, that they'll be pushing as their flagship feature...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      NFC is another disjointed tech that is not quite there. People get tap to pay etc. with a credit card or some bank tried to send me a chip you can stick in your wallet or on the back of any phone.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      A wonderful list

      of next to useless tech. Obviously!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A wonderful list

        "A wonderful list

        of next to useless tech. Obviously!"

        Maybe, but at the top of that list is iPhone 5!

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      NFC??

      The Nokia N9 has NFC beat Samsung too I think.

      Why are nerds so crazy about NFC? I have never seen even 1 shop taking NFC payments (ok, maybe a function of where I live and what I buy, but here is generally regarded as one of the world's advanced countries).

      NFC offers very few advantages over a credit cards as a payment medium - if any. It's just one more infrastructure cost for retailers and a way for telcos to get some action in the financial transaction processing business. It has nothing to do with extra utility for consumers or cheaper services. It's a wank basically.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Only 75 per cent of iPhone owners in Western Europe say they'd choose an Apple device for their next smartphone, new data from market watcher Strategy Analytics show."

    ONLY 75% - it's a figure other manufacturers would LOVE. I really can't imagine someone saying "Yes I'm definitely buying a HTC next time". You buy whichever handset suits you best at the time and consider how many are there 75% is a huge number and probably double that of anyone else.

  36. Lars Silver badge
    Happy

    Just let the competition flourish without litigation silly patents and such.

    Apple has been too litigating and too expensive and those days when Apple users showed the iThingi so superbly pround and happy is gone.

    It should be like this, we will not gain anything if there i some company with a very high percentage of what ever industry.

  37. Alan Denman

    Media loyalty is still extra strong

    With even the inquirer's "Ipad Mini vs Nexus 7 vs Kindle Fire HD" review failing to mention GPS I'm finding it hard to find 'fair minded press'.

    Forget loyalty, how about proper real user useful reporting?

    More real reporting can improve things for everyone including Apple users.

    We don't need successful dumbed down gadgets winning via very limited reporting.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

      I don't see the real issue with GPS on a wifi only device. Sure it would be nice to 'have' but if you use it out and about you are likely to get the 3G/4G version which does have GPS.

      1. fero

        Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

        I don't need 3G because I can use my mobile as a wireless hub but I do need GPS for location info!

        1. Steve Todd

          Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

          And if you were using an iPhone then it would pass GPS location data to the iPad.

          Apple have to build their kit to support all of the markets that they sell in. In some they need GLONAS compatibility, in others they are not permitted to include sat nav at all. How many markets does the Nexus 7 sell in again?

          1. Chet Mannly

            Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

            "And if you were using an iPhone then it would pass GPS location data to the iPad"

            So I have to buy a $600 iphone to give a $600 ipad functionality that costs about 30c to add to a device?

            Or I can buy a $200 Android tablet with GPS already built in and save $1000(+).

            Gee which is the best buy LOL!

            1. Steve Todd
              Stop

              Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

              Oh come on, almost no-one in the US pays the full amount for their phone, getting them subsidised by their cell carrier, and it's not much different for the up-front cost of an iPhone or an Android phone. If you've already bought the iPhone then you can access its GPS data for nothing from your $330 iPad mini.

              You can buy the 3G version of the iPad mini and get GPS/GLONAS if you don't have an iPhone, which gives you more flexibility and costs you $130 extra. Under no circumstances can you save the kind of money you're claiming.

      2. Ian Watkinson

        Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

        So all those TOMTOM devices...don't need GPS, wifi would do for them?

        Nexus 7 makes a GREAT satnav.

        Google now, works much better with gps (hint better location - more accurate)

        There is really only one use-case for 3g/4g in a tablet and that's where someone else is paying for the data, so corporate email on the tablett. Other than that until network operators give family's pots of data that they can all use and free sims to acess that pot of data you are better off buying one set of data and using that for all devices when you are out of wifi range.

        Battery life - get an external battery pac or a mifi if you like.

        Saying that I might get a 3g nexus as for £30 it's not bad for emergencies..

        1. Steve Todd
          Stop

          Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

          Kind of shot your own argument down there didn't you?

          You don't need a contract for the 3/4G iPads, you can pay for data on a PAYG basis (with some carriers letting you pay for a day or a week's access). The rest of the time you can tether to your phone if you want.

          Alternatively you can shop about and get a couple of gig a month on a 1 month rolling contract for about £5. This saves 1) hassle enabling/disabling tethering on the phone and 2) lets you tether a laptop etc without bothering about battery life (or a bulky battery pack).

      3. Mark .

        Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

        I could "make do" if I'm buying something much cheaper (e.g., one of the excellent Ainol tablets, which are great aside from lacking GPS). But what's the argument for being £100 more expensive than the competition?

        1. Steve Todd

          Re: Media loyalty is still extra strong

          The argument is two fold

          1) better build quality (something that the Fandroids seem to hate and put no value in, but it's brought up in every review)

          2) there is hugely more tablet optimised software available for it. Before you start on about fart apps, there is just as much, if not more, dross in the Play store. The lack of propper tablet apps is more than just an irritation for Android tablets at the moment.

  38. R0CKY

    What other phone can boast am 88% loyalty figure?

    Oh yeh, none.

    This is no surprise though, as the iPhone topped J.D. Power's satisfaction list for the 7th time this year.

  39. Big_Boomer Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Who cares,....

    ...if you choose to rub your Gentleman Vegetables with a Droid or an iThing or whatever?

    Whichever you choose you are still a sad moron who rubs his bits with a piece of plastic/aluminium.

    Get a life and get laid, or go climb a mountain or go for a walk.

    It really is not that important. It's just a bloody phone with a web browser that can run a few silly programs that you CAN live without.

  40. toadwarrior
    Trollface

    Android is doing well because the economy is poor so more people are likely to buy budget shit even if it spies on you and is full of malware.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You are obviously hurting, which is causing you to lash out.

      This pleases me.

  41. A 31
    Flame

    iphone 5 ... too many problems

    I recently moved from an iphone 4 to iphone 5

    despite the lack of improvements, which am not too fussed about ... a good phone

    yeh it works like an iphone

    what does not work is everything around it, all the sound equipment that apple consumers have bought in the past ... useless ... new connector

    hey ... buy an adaptor ... Apple you tight gits ! after people have been buying your products you don't even have the courtesy to provide the adaptor for free, instead ... you sell it for 25 quid , whilst non-branded adaptors are not even out.

    then here goes Command in the merc ... not charging, and of course, merc hasn't got cables for the new iPhone.

    this really give me the hump

    The map integration .... oh well, not as good as the gmap integration

    so where does that leave the consumer ? somewhere in the middle of ladyboy pageant with trousers round the ankles

    worse of that with my iphone 4

    <rant over>

    PS: please no cretinous reply " you should have bought this blah blah blah "

    1. kyza

      Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

      OR...

      ...just use a good ole phono lead out of the headphone socket and cope with having to walk to your stereo to skip a track?

      Apple have done what lots of bands do - they've got their formula, and are now afraid to change it (RHCP, Coldplay for example).

      Still, 75% of users happy and will buy again? As mentioned above, you'd have to go a long, long way to find that level of brand loyalty anywhere else.

      1. A 31
        WTF?

        Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

        yes, the phono lead ... thanks ... really works browsing the playlist having to look at a phone screen instead of the screen I have behind the wheel

        may I suggest you spare money by not living in a house and paying a mortgage and living in a tent ?

        no don't thank me, like you I like to dish out useful advice

        IN-TE-GRA-TION is the problem, not the lack of music

        1. Steve Todd

          Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

          How many Android phones will work with your car without an adaptor? You've committed to spending a minimum of about £800 over 2 years and you're winging about the price of an active adaptor that costs less than most HDMI leads?

          1. Trevor Marron

            Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

            "How many Android phones will work with your car without an adaptor?"

            Most of them will work just fine over Bluetooth, and that is music, track lists etc. to a Bluetooth car stereo which has full control over the phone.

            Can an iPhone not do that?

            1. Steve Todd

              Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

              "Can an iPhone not do that"

              Of course it can, but the OP seems to be winging that the only acceptable way to control it is via the 30 pin adaptor.

      2. Shane 4

        Re: iphone 5 ... too many problems

        ohh i don't know about that, It's pretty cut throat on the graphics cards forums. lol

        There are some true diehard users out there from both AMD and Nvidia that would outdo any Apple loyalist just from the swearing alone. o.O

  42. FreeTard

    Not a fanboy

    In fact, I don't even own a mobile telephone. But I have replaced an absolute shed load of them for my wife and kids. An awful lot of these smartphones seem to be quite flimsy, drop them and the screen cracks, battery life is shite etc etc.

    i base this entirely on observations and having to fork out the cash for poxy new phones all the time.

    My daughter has a crack across the screen of her brand new galaxy S advanced. Luckily I have it insured, but she wants to wait until she "really" breaks it before putting the claim in.

    When the wife broke her 5th telephone, I sellotaped up her old broken nokia e71 and that's that.

    She is "very" "happy" now, embarrassed to bejaesus mind, but meh.

    The one thing that the jesus phone has going for it is that it seems to be more knock resistant.

    I'm still not buying her a new one mind.

  43. RonWheeler
    Angel

    Harry Potter hardbacks

    People who buy these things are like people who bought Harry Potter hardbacks because they want to be part of the gang. As the book types discovered, you can only milk that cow so many times before the novelty wears off and too many wannabes join the self-appointed taste elite.

    That and less cheap credit in the last few years prevents quite so many buying overpriced tat on their flexible friend.

    1. A 31

      Re: Harry Potter hardbacks

      "people who buy these things"

      "part of the gang"

      thanks for that in depth analysis, which truly adds to the discussion

      there's me thinking that when you have nothing constructive to say, you should save your keyboard from use

      clearly not ... arrrg should have saved my keyboard

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Harry Potter hardbacks

        Get back to us when you learn how to use the English language.

  44. Silverburn

    Dilema

    Ok, I had 3 generations of iPhone before I moved to a galaxy note, because I need a mapping program, and and the bigger screen was needed.

    So I stroll into a store and play with the iphone5...and I realise apple have dropped the ball. The screen is not enough - micron levels of finish? Irrelevant. Apple have misread the market. Samsung have not.

    However... The polish as general attention to detail in ios still makes android look like a work in progress. IMO. Will I go back to iOS? Hmmm.. Sorry apple... Nice operating environment, but the hardware specs are not what agnostic consumers want.

    1. Joerg
      Thumb Down

      Re: Dilema

      Enjoy your Android hardware crap.

      iPhone5 A6 SoC is more powerful anyway. And iOS is a real optimized OS.

      Apps are not Java apps on iOS like Android is all about instead.

      1. Shonko Kid
        FAIL

        Errr

        I struggle to see how having really high end CPU specs and having an optimized OS can both be WIN at the same time. If it was that optimized, it wouldn't need a really powerful CPU.

  45. Dave Gee
    Linux

    Don't trust Google

    Those fandroids make me laugh...

    Bought the flagship Android Motorola Atrix 4G phone last summer, and despite Google buying Motorola's Phone Division, and Motorola posting a public statement saying it would upgrade it to ICS, they changed their minds, stuffing the owners.

    Welcome to the world of Android - a dog's dinner of software upgradability, maker's skins on top of wildly different versions, and the product lifespan of an X-Factor winner...

    I haven't bought an Apple product in years, but at least they retain their value more, have a more consistent user interface, support older models for longer, and have an excellent high street presence and choice of accessories.

    I bought a Google Nexus 7 weeks ago, and it's already in danger of being superseded with a plethora of newer models and versions.

    1. tybalt

      Re: Don't trust Google

      Weeks ago it was pretty well known what was coming next with the Nexus 7.

      Has the price cut broken your device?

      I think it's great they've cut the price. Makes for an even better deal.

  46. Joerg
    FAIL

    More scam fake stats paid by Google and Microsoft...

    They are beyond pathetic.

    Spreading lies in a hope to make a fool of people to then really sell more Android and WindowsPhone Metro crap.

    The iPhone +58% sales for this quarter tells everything.

    If people were really jumping ship then Apple wouldn't be getting a +58% and +26% iPad sales. That is for sure.

    Google and Microsoft surely would love to get such a huge positive percentage.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More scam fake stats paid by Google and Microsoft...

      "They are beyond pathetic.

      Spreading lies in a hope to make a fool of people to then really sell more Android and WindowsPhone Metro crap."

      Oh wow, Joerg and Obviously! in the same article's comments, this is like the idiocy Olympiad. Let's see if we can persuade them to have hate babies, someone cross the streams..

    2. ElReg!comments!Pierre
      FAIL

      Re: More scam fake stats paid by Google and Microsoft...

      "Google and Microsoft surely would love to get such a huge positive percentage."

      Equip flail. Google and Microsoft don't rely on shipping handset. Samsung , Nokia etc... do. In their respective core markets Google and Microsoft have a near-100% fidelity rate. I mean come on, "google" is even a verb these days, and "PC" is synonymous to "MSWindows".

      When it comes to selling phones, there is a big difference between Apple in one hand, and Samsung, Moto, and even Nokia as of late: Apple's business model relies almost entirely on branding and brand fidelity, whil Samsung and Moto ship utility handsets. Nokia used to rely on brand fidelity a lot (not as much as Apple does though) but they let that slip, big time, and that's the origin of their woes. For Nokia the fall began with a percepted lack of innovation and a percepted lack of listening to the users, that eroded brand fidelity. And now it seems that Apple's brand fidelity gets eroded because of a percepted lack of innovation and lack of listening o the users.

      The writing is on the wall, now a quite energetic change of direction at Apple may save them frrom what happened to Nokia (once more dominant than Apple has ever been to date, now an average-to-minor player).

      The recent changes in management may be just that.

  47. 0laf Silver badge
    Alien

    Control

    Free brain slug with every iPhone

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stark difference

    The iPhone is assembled for Apple by low paid workers at a factory in China.

    The Nexus 4, on the other hand, is assembled for LG by low paid workers at a factory in China.

    It's the build quality, I tell you.

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Boring

    Comment #124 which nobody will read...

    There's nothing 'new' about the iPhone 5 except for rather boring hardware upgrades.

    The innovation is now coming from Android devices - the galaxy s3 for instance, has turned a *lot* of heads.

    In my small circle, I've seen three former iPhone users switch to it and they are *really* happy with the choice.

    The OS is nowhere near as tightly controlled. Whilst that does have it's downsides, the flexibility and choice you have simply runs rings around Apple. Want to slap a widget on any screen? Go for it. Heck, chuck three or four on there. Change the theme? Yep, no problem.

    iOS is pretty solid, but it's starting to get dated. I had an iPhone 4S for about a week and found it ... dull. It wasn't that different to my ageing iPod touch 2g. Yes, there's something to be said for continuity and yes, later versions of iOS have multi-tasking - I get that.

    What I really don't like is how truly locked down the devices are. Apple may think they know what you want and maybe 8 times out of 10, they probably do. It's the other 2 times which piss me off.

    There's three things which have *hurt* iPhone sales:

    1. Maps

    2. Perceived lack of innovation from the 4S to the 5

    3. Android devices have got *damn* sexy

    The iPhone - yep, it's great - but really, I like my devices with a serving of freedom - and I reckon a lot more people feel the same way, despite what Apple may think is best for you.

    1. Ian Watkinson
      FAIL

      Re: Boring

      There's three things which have *hurt* iPhone sales:

      1. Maps (really have you tried it? Didn't think so it's ok, so was goole maps) Try Economy down the drain.

      2. Perceived lack of innovation from the 4S to the 5/ And that would be about the same as the S2/S3 so doesn't really count - Lets try lightning connector, need to replace lotsof still useable kit, and £25 for a connector/adaptor that should have had a couple in the box.

      3. Android devices have got *damn* sexy (really name one? Hint the S3 is not sexy, it's white/black plastic) Here's a proper 3 for you, Android devices have gone from cheap shite (anyone remember the Walmart $70 Android coaster that every tech site pulled apart as it was so bad that touches took over 30 seconds to register?) to ok shite. http://android.dcemu.co.uk/50-dollar-android-tablet-at-walmart-492655.html

      Same with cheaper android phones. HTC Wilfire - utter shite. T-mobile vivacity..ok. needs modding and all sorts to make it useable, but it's not utter shite.

      Who knows may be next year we'll see really really good devices. But so far the nexus 7 (great device great price) nexus 10...oops that's going to show up the sd apps ever more now...nexus 4...if it's really £239 sim free, well that's tempting.

      Google needs to sort out it's app store.

      However it's promblem is this big..

      http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4fb3df97ecad04ef32000003-610-/android-fragmentation-chart.png

      and getting bigger.

  50. Toothpick
    Pint

    @ Joerg 17:34

    Careful old boy. Comments like that will make your downvote counter go down quicker than a Thai hooker. Are you trying to beat your personal best - currently 196 downvotes on the iPad Mini on Amazon story?

  51. Jeff 11
    Thumb Down

    It seems to me that these stats don't answer any question about iPhone 'popularity' other than a decline in repeat iPhone customers as a percentage of the user base. Sales over time (and therefore the current user base) are still increasing according to more recent figures, so all this indicates to me is that some customers are jumping ship to look at alternatives, not that its popularity is in decline - quite the opposite, in fact.

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    However...

    Often people enjoy trying new things.

    One of the major issues with my iPhone4 (with a case on!) is that I just don't see the point in buying anything new yet. It all works well on IOS5.1.1 for what I use it for.

    Often the way in which something is used could be contained within what you call 'functionality' - it's not all about the core function itself. I've used Android phones and they certainly don't have the slick, polished interface. That's not to say that Apple haven't made mistakes with certain implementations, but I don't plan on upgrading to the iPhone5, IOS6, or any of that nonsense, including LTE. I don't wish to be a beta tester for any company or technology.

    On any platform I do think users can often be moronic...I'm sure we all know of a friend who can't seem to do the most basic of tasks or resolve the most basic of non-issues, it's just par for the course.

  53. mrd
    Meh

    iPhone 3G, 4, then S3... back to 4

    I had an iPhone 3G, then got the 4 which I've had for 2 years. Love it but thought "I really should try out Android again". I used it on and off years ago and did not like it. Felt kludgy and thrown together with a UI that did not know what it wanted to be. Also the opposite of slick or smooth. But lots of people swear by it so, I had to find out what I'm missing.

    Well the S3 came out - way too big but with enough grunt that I assumed Android would be smoother by now and I got one about 5 weeks ago.

    Biggest mistake ever. Android is still a kludgy mess of mismatched UI paradigms and sluggish even on that top spec hardware compared to my 3 generation old iPhone 4. Watching rubber banding on the S3 just by scrolling a simple webpage up and down quickly compared to the 4 being relatively smooth... it hurt.

    Having totally disconnected thinking where the experience of using the device is a set of discrete process steps as hurdles rather than one smooth 'work'flow... it hurt.

    And having a device that was too big to use one handed (I would have bought a 4" screen device with the same faster hardware much more readily) which is slippery as a fish... it hurt.

    So yes, I'm one of the increasing number that looked elsewhere and jumped to the theoretical "flagship" Android phone device (at the time) but I don't think I'm the only one who is now looking to flog his S3 on eBay and going back to my old iPhone 4 until I can afford the 5 outright or wait for the 5S/6.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just stand back...

    Just for a second, stand back and think.

    Most people on here are probably somewhere between 25 and 40. Now think back to 1995 and think what the mobile phones were like back then, just a mere 15 years ago.

    Now just fucking grow up and realise that we have this absolutely amzing technology in the palm of your hands. Tech that means I can be standing in the sodding Cairngorns and phone someone in the middle of Tokyo to ask if they got such and such a report. I can get the weather at any moment, anywhere on the planet. I can be stuck in a basement in Prague and find out the Circle Line sailings around Manhatten if I so wished!

    Yet all we hear on forums is lots of silly little middle-aged children, most of them blokes who still think they are in the playground, "Yeah but mine's better than yours 'cos you're a moron with no taste!", "Yeah well my Dad's bigger than yours, so ner ner!".

  55. Alistair MacRae

    Go an iDevice and don't need one anymore.

    I bought an 4S and there's no compelling reason to upgrade to the next one and a few things holding me back. I dont want to use an adaptor for my docs, and with updates coming along and being able to wipe apps of MY iPhone I'll stay where i am. There's less reason to stick with apple when I'd have to change my docks anyway.

    I also have an iPad2 but cant see a reason to upgrade. The 3 is too heavy and the mini is too small and adaptor is wrong. Again not feeling a need to upgrade.

  56. Chris 228

    The sheeple are slow to learn

    Maybe at one time there was some merit to buying Apple products but not in the last five years.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I may be wrong but

    isn't Apple's market share falling because there is more competition in the market?

    They had nigh on 100% of the iphone-type market when they started because there wasn't really any competition.

    Now there's dozens of competitors and Apple's share has fallen 10-15%?

    Nabad

  58. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ~Obligatory..which android?

    http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4fb3df97ecad04ef32000003-610-/android-fragmentation-chart.png

    Even said, times are hard and an S3 does most of what an iphone does for less money. So people are switching to save money.

  59. heyrick Silver badge

    "negative press prompted by a perceived lack of recent innovation"

    How about the fact that it just isn't "cool" to be associated with patent trolls? If Apple makes the greatest hardware, then surely that should stand alone head and shoulders above clones and wannabes (think: there are many own-brand chocolate bars that look and feel like a Mars bar, but in general they taste poor because they are not the genuine article).

    Personally, I feel that Apple is on dangerous ground here for we are talking about something based upon "image" and "perception", and the behaviour of the company will be a large factor in this...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "negative press prompted by a perceived lack of recent innovation"

      Nerds are the only people who use the term "patent troll".

      Mom and Pop average don't even know what a patent is and couldn't give a rat's arse about patents. They just want a phone that works like it says on the tin. Nerds won't understand this and are continually spouting their failure to comprehend in forums such as this one. They will die, failing to comprehend and be discovered in their mom's basement several weeks later.

      Nerds ARE NOT APPLE'S MARKET.

      Apple don't care what nerds think

      Apple are not in a specification race with other HW manufacturers.

      Apple users by and large are no more cool/not cool than the users of any other gadget, nor do they perceive themselves as such (replace Apple with almost any other HW manufacturer and the statement holds). There are people on each end of the distribution curve, but they are by definition a vanishingly small minority and largely irrelevant to all but themselves.

      The iPhone5 has arrived in the office. Surprisingly light and they seem to just work - much faster. A lot of HW engineering has been put into this device and it shows. HW perfection? No. State of the art? Yes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "negative press prompted by a perceived lack of recent innovation"

        "Apple are not in a specification race with other HW manufacturers"

        Really? Go take another look at the iPad mini launch, specifically the bit where Apple compare the iPad specifications directly with those of the Kindle Fire HD.

        If they are not in a race, why are they trying to convince the world they're winning it?

        1. Steve Todd

          Re: "negative press prompted by a perceived lack of recent innovation"

          Did you actually watch Apple's launch presentation for the Mini yourself? What they were pushing was usability not specs. They were saying things like "this is why we think a 7.9" 4:3 screen is better than our 7" competition", not talking about how many DPI it had.

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