Another day another dollar
And another try by MS. Let's see what happens. We will have a pretty good idea how this OS will fare once people have been playing with it for a couple months. My expectations are....well......VERY low.
Microsoft has finally launched its new touchy-feely Windows 8 and Windows 8 RT operating systems, along with grandly opening its Windows app store; they'll all be available beginning 12:01am on Friday in a rolling rollout that's likely to mean a minute after your midnight, wherever you are on God's green earth. "Windows 8 is a …
It's just Windows 95 all over again:
Oh noes....it looks totally different I hate it.
Now everybody is crying to keep an interface that hasn't really changed since Win95. I bet that come the next interface change in a few years people will be saying exactly the same thing all over again - I want my Win 8 interface back.
Nothing much changes
Well no. There is a difference.
In the past every new user interface thing Microsoft did to windows was pretty much an improvement. Not sure about ribbons yet, but they are not awful.
The Windows 8 changes on the other hand are awful. It is unusable. Everything has become confusing, difficult to use, and much more effort to do what you are used to doing.
Windows Vista was: Nice interface, shame about the performance issues.
Windows 8 is: Nice performance, shame about the interface issues.
That's a huge problem. I hope Windows 7 stays for sale for a LONG time. I hope Windows 8 last no longer than Vista did when the replacement comes out.
"The Windows 8 changes on the other hand are awful. It is unusable. Everything has become confusing, difficult to use, and much more effort to do what you are used to doing."
My experience - irrespective of any personal likes/dislikes for Win 8 - is that the Metro interface was a doddle to use. But where I was unsure I just swore then poked and dragged all over the place until something unexpected or seemingly random happened. After about 45 minutes I was quite satisfied and using it quite happily. The kids had no such problems. I wouldn't put it on anything up from a tablet though.
The one thing I do like about it is the look of the UI. The 'rounded corners and glossy icon' look (as seen everywhere for an eternity) is old, tired and boring and is about as exciting and aesthetically pleasing as a dose of gonorrhoea, so in this respect it's nice to see something different
I think the new UI is ugly. It reminds me of lotus notes from many years ago (which also had giant solid colour boxes and was an atrocious user interface). And if you don't have a touch device (and really how many of those have you seen around on a desktop), then the interface is just plain clumsy. The simple test the register posted today quite accurately represents exactly what I would expect to see happen. It is a confusing mess of an interface and clearly not well thought out. The primary interface MUST be designed for the primary input devices of the majority of users, which is a mouse and keyboard. Microsoft can add new stuff to make touch interfaces easier to use, but they have to keep the majority of users happy, and windows 8 won't do that. The tabletpc features in vista (and to some extent XP tablet version) worked quite well and in no way interfered with using it without the stylus. That worked.
> Sunspider Java test is over twice as fast on Windows RT on Surface as on the iPad 3!
We need to add reading problems to your list of inadequacies. No review claims _over_ twice as fast.
"""That's nearly twice as fast as the latest iPad and nearly as quick as our record holder, the iPhone 5"""
"Sunspider Java test is over twice as fast on Windows RT on Surface as on the iPad 3!"
Hardware design is irrelevant other than does it work without overheating, can I hold it. Camera's and SD cards are only imnportant if you use them, but every user has to put up with the interface.
IF the surface JUST had the stupid tiles / hubs / icons / metro thing. Then is might be okay, but to have both is the problem for me. The version of win8 I used had 3 installs of internet explorer (metro, 32bit, 64bit), to shutdown was four menus in two different formats. that is the problem, it has no sense of itself and fails to be both 'new and innovating' or 'supporting the old interface' (lack of start button) That is what is crud about win8.
And having windows that change their colour depending on your background is just silly.
I don't buy a desktop or laptop based on whether I can skate board and I don't use web cams, I use it so I can play games and work in 'office' with as little amount of effort as possible.
At least we don't need to socialise with the miserable old gits who take pleasure from putting a negative slant on everything they see. Unfortunately you weren't here quick enough to post before the low esteem/expectations guy and the twat commentator.
Positives. Windows 8 and RT have already stimulated some creativity in new notebook and tablet designs. Apple have countered by bringing forward the x2 performance new new iPad. No idea what Google have lined up for Monday. At last there seems to be some competition returning to the PC business less of of the same old, looking forward to what the fresh thinking brings in 2013.
Since the 1970s, PC = personal computer, whatever the form factor. I was not referring to the desktop market. You are right of course that the focus of competition right now is driven by mobile hardware innovation although I think you are being over-pessimistic in thinking this will not feed back into the desktop side over the next year and beyond.
As for your comment on Apple/Google/Microsoft and innovations, I'll just say everyone is entitled to opinions but you'd probably find the reality is less polarised if you get to spend time with R&D people from all of these large organisations.
Someone please tell me why MS never included an EXPERT / NOVICE toggle button in the windows UI?
I can't be the only one baffled by this????
#1. I'm so bored expending wasteful energy helping out girlfriends, friends and neighbors every time they buy a new PC problem or have a problem. WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO :-
A. Uncheck hide extensions for known file types.
B. Change all default file folder views to DETAILS view!
C. Show hidden files and folders.
D. Hide unused folders in the left-pane of explorer and expand necessary ones etc.
E. Disable bland security notifications and endless tray icon balloon notifications.
F. Change System settings to 'Adjust for Best Performance'.
#2. And why is there no toggle button for a Safe PC Mode where the following are all disabled :-
A. All SCHEDULED TASKS including Facebook Voice, Google, Adobe, Java Updaters.
B. All unnecessary SERVICES especially the most hacked: VNC Server, MS SQL, Remote Access RDP.
C. All Registry Run / Runonce key commands.
D. All browser add-ons & plug-ins in all installed browsers especially the most cracked: Flash & Java!!!
#3. Why don't large MS customers force them to include a switch to revert W8 to W7 mode? After all 3rd parties have already coded shell revisions. It seems strange that something so fundamental is always left to 3rd parties to do! If this flexibility existed then I'm sure windows would sell out. Instead MS keeps shipping its software with the same its-our-way-or-the-highway arrogant attitude. I'd love to see MS staff getting calls late in the night to fix their neighbors PC!
Some of use do play minecraft ;) Whilst I hate java with a passion most people can only aspire to, there are (unfortunately) still some quite decent applications that are written in it. I've worked to eliminate java based programs from my desktop so that now I'm only left with minecraft and I've disabled it in my web browsers but it's still there. Lurking like some kind of hideous ghost of christmas past.
I can't believe the massive number of upvotes for the guy who's first impulse when asked to help someone with a pc is configure the whole machine exactly like his work pc. Your gran doesn't need hidden files to show, or file extents or most of the other stuff you're moaning about. If you just fixed the problem without reconfiguring the machine it'd take a lot less time...
He was suggesting a toggle button to do it all at once. Very good suggestion, don't know why it never occured to me. But in case you don't know, when we - probably most of us - work on various significant others' machines, we want to see file extensions, hidden and system files, all folders etc etc. You appear to have totally missed the meaning of the comment. You toggle expert features on. Fix machine. Toggle expert features back off. Perhaps you thought it was something to do with duffle coats?
Mmmh, thanks for the knee-jerk comment. Sorry but have to question the depth of your troubleshooting skills.. Its not about customization its about the lengths you have to go to sometimes to troubleshoot windows problems. Got asked to fix a PC once that was inaccessible just after windows start-up. The machine was used by kids of the household for Java / Flash games and randomly browsing the web. So a malware / virus hit was probable.
The problem was diagnosing it from the sheer amount of Updaters, Scheduled Tasks and Run-key apps launched simultaneously at startup causing a system hang. In short I needed to temporally disable everything non-essential, but leave networking on. In the and, it turned out to be a Symantec update that had turned rogue and crushed crucial windows DLL's!
Logging in using an Expert Toggle mode would have meant 15 minutes of work with help from Sysinternals Promon and the MS Depends app. But with no Expert mode it meant hours of painfully renaming files in a command window using educated guesswork.... A colleague of mine once designed an Expert Toggle mode for our firm. It worked well and saved countless hours of unnecessary labor! But it would take someone like Mark Russinovich @ MS to write an all encompassing Tool that worked everywhere every-time for everybody!
I have a Microsoft Partner licence that included Windows-8, so I put in on the touch-screen computer in the kitchen. My kids moved the wireless keyboard because “it was in the way”.. but that’s fine ‘cus Windows-8 is touch oriented, and Windows-7 worked really quiet well without mouse or keyboard, but…
This utter, utter, shite software is the first Microsoft OS for 25 years that actually requires a keyboard! Accidentally open a Metro-app on a touch-screen PC without a keyboard and your only option is to hit the power button (or go and hunt-down a keyboard).
I thought the biggest change with Windows-8 was that my kids would play Angry Birds, but no, the biggest change is having to tape spare batteries to the back of the screen to be sure that the ESSENTIAL keyboard will always work.
Oh you just drag the metro app off the bottom of the screen to close it. Obviously. :)
And that is part of why I don't want to deal with any friend or family member moving the Windows 8. it is so completely impossible to know what to do by looking at it.
On the contrary... This is at least the third attempt that MS has made to break into the tablet/smart phone market. It's very clear that they want to leverage their domination of the desktop market (which is static at best and probably declining in the future) and use that position to try to get into tablets and smart phones.
I loaded Win 8 RTM on a virtual machine a few months ago and deleted it shortly after. Using 8 on a desktop machine provides zero advantages over 7. There's already been a number of stories about how business buyers are going to pass on 8. With the give away upgrade pricing you can expect lots of press releases about how successful the launch was, but a few months from now it will be clear that 8 is going nowhere.
Windows 8 boots and shutsdown faster, is more secure, uses less battery, and is much faster than Windows 7 - for instance file transfers, direct-X, etc. I would say thats enough advantages to upgrade, but there are lots more too....
Clearly somebody didn't read the "I put in on the touch-screen computer " before commenting "you're not really the target audience".. because.. err.. actually yes, my touch-screen IS the target audience!
Sure I could do the flick from the right of the screen but my PC's got a border round the touch screen so I have to jam my finger into the border before flicking, except that don't work unless you've got no nails (1cm long & it don't work) and the patience of Sinclair ZX81 owner.. so utter, utter shite.
her's a thing, my PC screen is twenty-five times the size of my (great) WinPhone screen, but the phone's the one that makes space for a home icon on the screen. not since the paper-clip has Microsoft done such a stupid thing with the PC UI.. utter utter shite
To get back to the desktop you just drag the charms bar in from the right, hit start then choose desktop.
drag the window swticher in from the left side of the screen which lets you toggle back to the desktop.
It's not obvious but there's certainly no need for a keyboard.
I think it will be remember as something far worse. I think it will be remember as an Edsel. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel ) That is to say, this will be a product clearly designed by people who look at trends but who have no experience in those trends and who completely ignore the wants of the target audience. Then these same disconnected people will wonder why something so awkward never was accepted despite spending so much money on it.
Personally, I think we will in the future refer to software failures as "eights". Lets have a hypothetical situation: "Apple attempts to revolutionize the calendar app in iOS 7 but it turned out to be another eight." "Amazon introduced a specialized UI for its new Kindle Fire but it really was nothing more than an eight." "Microsoft laid a big fat eight on us with the new Outlook PST file revisions."
I wonder how long before Microsoft deep-six's the Eight? And blames all the problems on everybody but the decision makers.
so excited I wiped my HDD ready for windows 8....... then had 4 hrs to kill and installed Fedora 14 instead
Then I noticed Fedora was a product better suited for my needs
Seriously microsoft.... bring out office 2013 with windows 8 and you'll make a shedload of money from the business sector who never get fired for buying microsoft... the consumer market will go with whatever OS is installed because the majority want something for facebook, something to watch netflix and something to e.mail granny the latest cat picture.
The rest of us dont care because we buy something better than your OS.
PS Come on valve.. steam for linux steam for linux!!!!
>>Sadly you're right because the real world consists mainly of real dupes [sic] who need to be led. For us "fantasists", who think before we buy, there's Linux to do all that Windows brags about (and some more). But thinking is required...
Let me know when Valve have finished porting Steam to linux and the games selection available is as good as that of Windows and then we'll talk. I'm happy to do all the important stuff on Linux, i.e work, coding, servers etc but until the games companies start supporting linux as a priority I'm stuck with windows and win8 is, under the hood, a good improvement on win7 in terms of memory footprint, speed and security. That's why I will be upgrading my windows partitions. It's a little frustrating to see all this crybaby whinging about win8's UI considering that you can just install a 3rd party start button and never see metro again, to me it smacks of bitching and whining purely for the sake of bitching and whining because everyone loves to complain about microsoft.
"when computers are made available with that abomination Win 8 on them then people will buy them and then install Linux on them for a better user experience, more security, more speed, more stability, more freedom and increased productivity."
Better, experience, security, speed, stability, freedom and productivity? Oh, that would have to be a BSD then. Far superior to the little penguin - even the community has a superior attitude*.
IMO, for Windows to have any competition in the desktop market it will take a product that captures the imagination of the masses**. Gnu/Linux has failed to achieve that, and very few Windows users have even heard of BSD. (As applications move into the cloud, who knows, that awful Googley OS may gain some traction).
*Superior, as in inflated self-opinion
**That's not going to be Ubuntu or Mint.
I have no clue. I have the time to watch, since I don't need Windows or any other Microsoft software, for that matter.
But it sure is amusing to watch the cognitive dissonance kicking in amongst the MS shills... I mean, I remember them clearly saying that Linux (for instance) is different, and people won't ever use different (not contented, if a distro imitated Windows as closely as possible in interface, they'd then complain about lack of innovation, but that's a different can of penguins).
Now, MS creates something not just very different, but seemingly makes an interface mess of it, judging by the most common opinion out there. Will the shills now say "NO, MS, don't change the interface that much, people won't ever use different"? You'd wish, if they were consistently rational. But instead they say: "bunch of whiners, just force them to use it and after a few weeks/months [some shills are more optimistic than others] they will have always loved it".
Funny thing is that I think the second reaction is closer to reality in most cases (don't know if it will be in W8's case). Time will tell, fun times ahead, and lots of work for you IT guys, patching up W8 machines to look and behave like W7, support calls, paid for or not, ah the fun.
There's at least 6 on PC world. OK, not 17", biggest is 15.6".
Acer the same, everything you ask but maybe @ 15.6" max
Dell pretty much the same there but not @17". Oh no, I tell a lie, I can see a touchscreen dell of 17".
Actually, the more I look the more I am finding. Go have a look, rather than just guess... I wouldn't have found them if they werent there to find.
I just installed Windows 8 Pro on a VirtualBox running on my wee 13" ultrabook and I have to say that I'm disappointed. Just like everyone says, it feels like I'm using an OS that was designed for a tablet. It's unfortunate that Microsoft couldn't have built on some of the nice features and UI elements that came in with Vista and Windows 7 (instead of removing them) and developed Windows 8 into something other than a confused tablet/desktop hybrid. It really should have been spun off as its own version.
Cheers Microsoft, but I think I'll sit this one out.
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