back to article Salesforce CEO Benioff: Win 8 is 'the end of Windows'

The official launch of Windows 8 is only a week away, but Salesforce.com CEO Marc Benioff won't be making the upgrade, and he doesn't think most enterprise CIOs will, either. "Windows is irrelevant," Benioff said, speaking at a press Q&A session at Salesforce's Cloudforce event in New York on Friday. Benioff explained that …

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  1. cyke1
    FAIL

    most havn't even gone to win 7 yet

    why would they do to win8 when they havn't even used windows 7 yet.

    1. LarsG
      Meh

      For someone who lives in a big city

      Oh the privilege he has, HIS LTE is so good that he doesn't bother with wireless.

      He fails to see one thing, not all of us have decent Internet coverage, not all of us have LTE and not all of us live somewhere with good mobile coverage, let alone wireless coverage that can be readily accessed.

      Maybe he is not as clever as he thinks he is.

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: For someone who lives in a big city

        "Maybe he is not as clever as he thinks he is."

        Nor as informed. He makes the argument that Win8 is "irrelevant" because people are more focused on BYOD. And then ignores that Win8 has significantly more features and support for BYOD than Win7 did. BYOD in the enterprise is one of the design goals of Win8.

        1. jason 7
          Facepalm

          Re: For someone who lives in a big city

          I bet all these very influential folks have never actually had to try to support BYOD at the sharp end either.

          I see a lot of folks 'own devices' and I wouldn't touch a lot of them without antibac first let alone let them hook to any network/service of mine.

          All bloody talk these people.

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: For someone who lives in a big city

            Because byod works so well in environments that are locked down, and or environments that don't have extensive edge wireless or cutting edge fibre. Sure cutting edge city boys might go 100pc cloud but the majority of real world companies have little choice.

      2. Arctic fox
        Headmaster

        @LarsG Re: "Oh the privilege he has" His privilege also consists of being able to afford.......

        .......using his phone in that way. For millions upon millions of ordinary punters the costs of total dependency on the "per meg" model of payment for their broadband connection would be prohibitive regardless of how good their plan might be since none are truly "unlimited". Wifi in the US or in the UK for that matter (at home, in the office or at their local Starbucks) is a must for many and is likely to remain so for a long time to come. Apart from anything else the infrastructure costs of building out the coverage such that it was technically feasible to go totally "mobile broadband" are huge and the poor bloody punter would be the one meeting the end-point bills. He gives every impression of being the US analogue of a "toff" - the fact that he finds his phone bill painless must of course mean that everyone else does as well.

      3. Voland's right hand Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: For someone who lives in a big city

        That is not everything he fails to see.

        If Microsoft did not ship regular upgrades to its OS, the PC OEMs would have arranged contractually (for a pot of gold) for it to do so. So he _WILL_ be buy a new windows 8 machine at some point for the simple reason that he will have no choice on the matter. The hardware OEMs will make sure to that.

        The only way his future may come true will be if Google stops f***ing around with ChromBooks and ships "Android for PC".

        The other possible alternatives (Apple and Linux) are not likely to kill Windows to a point where the future will be bright and Cloudy. Apple continues to market itself as a premium product and will always be out of reach for a large segment of the userbase. Linux will probably continue to be ~ <5% of the userbase - mostly the technically literate and technically inclined. This leaves a nice gaping market void where Windows will continue to reside unless something like Android for PC kicks it out.

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: For someone who lives in a big city

          > Linux will probably continue to be ~ <5% of the userbase ... Windows ... unless something like Android for PC kicks it out.

          Android _IS_ Linux. Linux is the kernel of the OS for both Android and the distros of GNU/Linux (and of lots of embedded devices and TVs).

          > The hardware OEMs will make sure to that.

          I am sure that the hardware OEMs would like to sell many different things, particularly ones that make a profit. Unfortunately they have contracts with Microsoft that prevent them doing that while still retaining their 'loyalty discounts'. Retailers are also driven by profitability. When they sell a PC with Windows they can also sell many profitable add ons with software such as Office, anti-virus, games and such. In the past they could also rely on repeat business as the Windows machines choked up and became slower until the user decided it needed replacement with a new one (after only 2 or 3 years - though reinstalling would probably make it usable again).

          Now machines with XP or 7 are powerful enough and Windows is reliable enough that replacement is no longer required. SmartTVs, smartphones and iPads are resulting in less usage of the desktop, plus spending money on those reduces the budget available to buy a replacement, or additional, PC.

          With Microsoft taking the business away from OEMs and retailers with the app store, Surface and MS stores, there may be less incentive for the OEMs and retailers to stick with a Windows only policy. They may turn to Android, ChromeOS, FirefoxOS, or WebOS to make up for revenue lost to MS, or just lost due to reduction in PC sales.

          1. Christian Berger Silver badge

            Re: For someone who lives in a big city

            Well Linux is versatile. Android has very little to do with the Linux you would want to have on your desktop. It's dumbed and locked down, and only uses Linux as a kernel for it's own Java-based system.

            1. h4rm0ny

              Re: For someone who lives in a big city

              "Well Linux is versatile. Android has very little to do with the Linux you would want to have on your desktop. It's dumbed and locked down, and only uses Linux as a kernel for it's own Java-based system."

              However, it's influence is so great now that Android extensions are now being back-ported into the kernel.

        2. hugh wanger
          Childcatcher

          Re: For someone who lives in a big city

          A reasonable post. The Salesforce twerp summarily dismisses legacy applications, the OEM arrangement of which you speak. Price (As you say Apple is at a premium, ie twice the price for the same thing).

          Google have faffed with Chromebook, but then that just could be symptomatic of the fact that it isn't as easy to do (build an OS) as even the bearded+sandled Linux lobby would have you think.

          To suggest Windows is dead is stupid at best. Although I have had dinner with another CEO of one of the largest IT security companies in the world who said the same thing. I explained to some CIOs at the same dinner that a Windows 8 tablet is like their iPad, except you could do work on one - and they all said that's what they wanted. Its a mixed up crazy world :)

          1. ChaosFreak
            Thumb Up

            Re: For someone who lives in a big city

            You've hit the nail on the head. Even with an external keyboard I can't get any real "work" done on my iPad. I use it as an entertainment device, to play games, read books, watch TV & movies, listen to music & audiobooks... and it's great for that. But when I have to create a financial model in Excel or a presentation in PowerPoint I need a real PC.

            Perhaps when CPU performance and memory on tablets are on par with laptops you could conceivably use them as a laptop replacement by connecting a keyboard, mouse and external monitor but today that's not realistic.

      4. dajames Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: For someone who lives in a big city

        He also fails to understand that for many the cost of LTE -- or any cellular communications technology -- is significant. For most of us, WiFi is the affordable connection option we turn on when browsing or downloading, LTE is acceptable only for low-bandwidth applications or occasionally when WiFi is not available.

        It's OK for the CEO of Salesforce to use LTE for everything, but most of us live in the real world.

        Beer, because I have better things to spend my money on!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Salesmen

      Full of hot air, no wonder there are so many clouds.

      1. Havin_it
        Alert

        Re: Salesmen

        Dangerous clouds too. He's adding so much to the San Francisco Smug cloud that it must not be allowed to merge with the cloud from George Clooney's Oscar acceptance speech, at all costs!

        /southpark

      2. W.Hower

        Re: Salesmen

        No doubt.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lemme Guess. We'll all be using Chromebooks

  3. That Awful Puppy
    WTF?

    How?

    How does one disintermediate the need for something? What does disintermediate even mean?

    mybrainisfulloff+ck.jpg

    1. Mikel

      Re: How?

      Disintermediate means to cut out the middleman; to remove something from between two other things.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How?

      One of those made up catchy jargonistic words that actually mean nothing. It just bigs up the ego.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: How?

        I does mean something if disintermediation means you gotta start looking for a new job.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: means you gotta start looking for a new job.

          In that case, I'm definitely antidisintermediatarian

          1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

            Re: means you gotta start looking for a new job.

            This is all surely just a misunderestimation.

    3. dajames Silver badge
      Windows

      What does disintermediate even mean?

      My dictionary says that "disinter" means to "exhume" or to dig up something that has been buried.

      It also says that "mediate" means "dependent on or involving an intermediate person, thing, or action".

      So, we may conclude that "disintermediate" means getting someone else to dig things up for you... maybe just market gardening, but maybe bodies for the dissection table ... and maybe Windows 7 install disks, as I can see a demand for them!

  4. Jan Hargreaves
    Facepalm

    Obviously has no idea how windows upgrades work. You miss out every other release. Is there one person in the world who thought Vista was a "mandatory" upgrade?

    This guy is a bit clueless. Then again... he is a salesman. He creates nothing. He just makes money off other people's products. He can do his "work" with a tablet. Well... whoopdeedoo. CIOs have many choices today which is a good thing. And they can select the appropriate hardware and software to best do the job required.

    Is he seriously suggesting that people will go to work, then do all their work for the whole day, sat at their desk... on a smartphone?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      1) Benioff is definitely selling his cloudy vision, but he is much more than just a salesman. He was one of the original assembly programmers at Apple way back in the day. Founded a software company in high school. He knows what he is talking about.

      2) He isn't saying that LTE in its current form or that tablets in their current form will be the computing device for everyone. He is saying that the general direction is toward devices and non-Windows products and that there is no functional or technical need for any Windows user to upgrade to 8... as nearly everything is done online. Difficult to argue with that....

      1. CheesyTheClown
        Flame

        I'll argue the difficult

        Ok, I've been an assembler programmer almost as long as he has, so while my street cred doesn't include Apple, in includes others like Opera.

        His company has no real benefit to developing Windows software any more since it's basically a business management system. It's pretty lame stuff. It's just a big, lame, database app. It belongs online as a web page.

        I personally agree with Microsoft that applications like Office belong online. I however insist that the files are able to be stored exclusively locally. Office should not be software as a service, but instead should run as an app on my company's local servers. Microsoft has no business storing my files on their servers.

        Software as a service is a disgusting model. It means you trust some third party company to store your data on their servers and trust they won't simply hand data over to government agencies. Trusting that they can keep your data safe when it gets hacked. Trusting you will have some way to use your data when they go out of business. Trusting you'll have some way to move your data to another service if you become unhappy with that company.

        Let's be honest, software as a service is like a dream for a company like his. Get a bunch of customers, treat them fair, then lock them in and make it impossible for them to move to another service provider and then when contract renewal comes around, jack the rates.

        Windows, iOS and Android are all interesting platforms. While Google is genuinely trying to make Android a replacement for a desktop OS, with the exception of sales people, I've never heard of anyone that can actually use iPad only. They all have a PC too. Apple simply doesn't care about business users. I have looked a lit and haven't once seen an app for iPad that says "professional grade".

        Autodesk makes a bunch of iPhone apps. They're all just viewers. In fact, most professional apps for iPad and Android are just viewers for their desktop apps. Without a separate tablet or at least mouse or even track pad, engineering is a waste on iPad or Android.

        Enter Windows 8 (not RT) and here comes apps for programming, engineering, games, etc... Windows 8 allows you to dump your iPad and your laptop and have a single device. The fact is, I have even using it for a year and love being able to either use a tablet or use it as a PC. I have Visual Studio, Matlab, Hyper-V with Linux, full Adobe apps like Premier and it all runs on a CPU/GPU capable of handling heavy loads. I have full Office and Visio as well.

        Sorry buddy, lame ass databases do belong online. If I had to depend on software as a service, my family would starve.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: I'll argue the difficult

          "I however insist that the files are able to be stored exclusively locally. Office should not be software as a service, but instead should run as an app on my company's local servers. Microsoft has no business storing my files on their servers."

          Agree with this, but Skyrive that comes with your personally bought device that you or I might buy in a shop is intended for us, not enterprise or business. A proper enterprise operation (imo) will be hosting their own cloud. I.e. they run a Server 2012 install (or more). The thing some people miss is that Skydrive is a default. It doesn't mean you can't replace it with your own cloud. But agree with your post - it's just I've seen people here talking as if Skydrive were some integral and necessary part of Win8.

          My main problem with MS's Azure service, is that last time I checked (would love to find out they've changed it but not aware they have), they couldn't guarantee that they would run a server purely in the EU. Which means American data protection laws. Which means no data protection as far as I'm concerned. Could be wrong.

          1. Vic

            Re: I'll argue the difficult

            > they couldn't guarantee that they would run a server purely in the EU. Which means American data protection laws.

            Where the server is run is essentially an irrelevance; the Patriot Act means that the US Govt can demand the data anyway[1]. I can't imagine any US-based company refusing to comply with that...

            Now you could argue that Data Protection is more than just protection from the government. And I would remind you which com=ountry we're talking about :-(

            Vic.

            [1] http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/microsoft-admits-patriot-act-can-access-eu-based-cloud-data/

            1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

              Re: I'll argue the difficult

              Where the server is run is essentially an irrelevance; the Patriot Act means that the US Govt can demand the data anyway. I can't imagine any US-based company refusing to comply with that...

              Correct - as a client of such an organisation you effectively have double exposure: either the Americans abuse the PATRIOT Act to get at the company if they are in the US, or they grab the underlying IT service company. You only need as much as an *association* with the US to have a problem. It's a bit like the Mafia, but marginally legalised and not yet planning to get at your family if you don't comply. No doubt they're working on that.

              It pays to go back to the original of all this Data Protection stuff to see just how insidious it all has become. Dp has its origin in the privacy component of Human Rights (Article 12) which has been adopted by most countries in one way or the other. The "get out" clauses inserted in EU law were there to assist law enforcement, but it is time people realise that such exceptions are EXCEPTIONS, privileges the voter grants for the exclusive purpose of assisting with crime fighting. They are in principle rights infringements, warranted, but infringements they remain and they should be treated as such. Anyone wanting to use those privileges has to justify why.

          2. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

            Re: I'll argue the difficult

            @h4rm0ny

            "My main problem with MS's Azure service, is that last time I checked (would love to find out they've changed it but not aware they have), they couldn't guarantee that they would run a server purely in the EU. Which means American data protection laws. Which means no data protection as far as I'm concerned. Could be wrong."

            The Reg had a webcast on this subject either earlier this year or in 2011. I think it was a project for the Royal Mail and Microsoft did offer a guarantee that it would be hosted inside the EU (Ireland and Holland I think).

            Unfortunately shortly after that there were a couple of reports about the US claiming they had the right to drop a couple of sites they objected to, one because it was a .com, the other because the domain registrar was in the US. See US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll argue the difficult

          I would argue that you're not just comparing apples and pears, you're going through the whole fruit bowl :)

          First off, SaaS ideas are critically dependent on a network, there is no local cache so if your virtual wire breaks you have a problem (less so with the Citrix approach where you just reconnect to the session in progress once you're back online). This is reason 1 why I will not touch a Chromebook - I cannot be certain that I can actually work as I travel a lot. This is also one of the issues with Salesforce. Nice DB, well spun out and well sold, but here too I have an issue with connectivity.

          Secondly, there is the dependency on a 3rd party. You depend on them to do things right, not just in keeping the service up (which you correctly pointed out as an issue), but also keeping your data yours, and yours only (you did point at that too). This is where users of Google services astonish me - I bet a number of them are unwittingly breaking confidentiality agreements with their customers, and possible Data Protection laws (as a matter of fact, in one case I am actually certain of it). Do I trust a US company like Salesforce to protect my interests when a US competitor decides I'm now really hurting their business? Not a chance in hell, sorry. Argument 2 to stay well away from Chromebooks - and the fact that the supplier is actually in the data "acquisition" business and normal risk management thus dictates I should be careful here as non-US business - this is also why Android based systems are banned in most of our setup (I know this will create lots of negative comments, but that was *our* evaluation - yours may differ).

          Thirdly there is the demand on resources - I like to process the hard work where I can see it. Amazon clouds et al are interesting, but I don't need that horsepower so I have that locally too - on the LAN where I can protect the information. I have large applications which would take a while to download - doesn't exactly compare with the powerful app that appears almost instantly out of an SSD.

          Last but not least, the devices you speak about (tablets et al) are really made for CONSUMPTION (no, not the disease). I know massive amounts of people who use tablets to pick up their email when travelling, also because they know they will not create or write complex articles until they are back in their office. It's computing light, and what you do is read and maybe answer a few (one guy I know gets about 250+ emails a day from clients - thanks to an iPad he can deal with that when sitting in a hotel lobby). But every single one of my friends also use either a full desktop or a laptop with a decent keyboard and mouse to do the hard work - they would not *dream* to try that on an iPad. Not that many haven't tried, but that doesn't really work. They read news, books, email - asymmetric. Lots of display output, trivial amount of input. That works.

          And here too, practically none use online software. Email is stored locally (typically they use IMAP syncs - I see more and more people switch to groupware instead of Exchange), and writing can also take place without connectivity (an iPad is the only thing that fits on the tray in front of an economy class plane seat anyway :).

          So, I agree, but I think you left a few things out :).

        3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: I'll argue the difficult

          > lame ass databases

          Newbie starting to make his way in the "industry" detected.

        4. dajames Silver badge

          Re: I'll argue the difficult

          I personally agree with Microsoft that applications like Office belong online. I however insist that the files are able to be stored exclusively locally. Office should not be software as a service, but instead should run as an app on my company's local servers. Microsoft has no business storing my files on their servers.

          Agreed and upvoted, but ...

          If the applications live online and yet can operate on locally stored data, the remote applications have to have permission to read and write your local filestore (to some extent). Without a much better security model than we have today that would mean that the applications can access anything (anything you have created with those applications, at least) on your hard drive, and could potentially copy the lot the cloud. There is no more privacy in what you suggest than in the normal "cloud" model.

          You also have the situation in which, if the cloud-based applications go away (or change their data formats), the stored data on your hard drive might become unusable. You might have the data files on your own media, but you wouldn't be able to use them. OK, you mitigate this problem by suggesting that an enterprise would store the applications on its own servers, rather than public ones run by a third party, but it is still a problem that has to be managed.

          Further, if the apps are on a server, rather than in local storage, you can only use them when you have a (fast!) data connection -- and then only at some cost. This model may be fine within an enterprise where all workers work only at their desks, but it just doesn't work for out-of-office work in remote locations.

          I still want all my applications and all my data under my control on my media. Not because I think the cloud providers (Google and the like) are going to spy on me, but because they're my data and I want to be able to work on them in any way I want, in any place I want.

        5. hugh wanger
          Black Helicopters

          Re: I'll argue the difficult

          Way-to-go Cheesey, someone who gets it:

          "Enter Windows 8 (not RT) and here comes apps for programming, engineering, games, etc... Windows 8 allows you to dump your iPad and your laptop and have a single device. The fact is, I have even using it for a year and love being able to either use a tablet or use it as a PC."

          That's exactly what I hope to be doing. Handing back my iPad and Dell plastic fantastic and using a Surface.

          1. ChaosFreak
            Thumb Down

            Re: I'll argue the difficult

            Unfortunately the fanbois will be voting all these comments down, but it remains the truth. The iPad is a great media device but you can't do real "work" on it. If Microsoft is able to hit the sweetspot and create an OS that lets you use your tablet the way you use a laptop today then that would be a game changer. I know a lot of people love to hate Microsoft but it's not as if they're idiots. Windows is still the leading desktop OS by far, and the XBOX is the most popular gaming console in the world... they must be doing something right.

            If they can pull this off it will make life much easier for a lot of people so I'm not ashamed to be hoping they'll succeed. If they can produce great tech, then hating it just because they're Microsoft is a bit short-sighted.

            OK fanbois, downvote me!!

    2. ChaosFreak
      FAIL

      No need to be bigoted

      Yes, he is clearly clueless and drinking his own coolaid, but that's what CEOs do. If they don't truly believe in the "vision" of the company and its products, then who would buy them?

      I'm not sure what you mean when you say salesmen create nothing and just make money off other people's products. You could say that about every employee who isn't directly involved in production. Look at those support techs... they don't create anything, they just make money fixing other people's products! Look at that janitor. He doesn't create anything, he just makes money emptying the trash of the real workers who create the products! Look at that supermarket, they don't create anything, they just make money selling other people's products!

      Every company has a multitude of functions which are essential to the product being created, marketed, distributed and sold. If you think salesmen are so useless, I challenge you to build a successful company made up entirely of developers.

  5. Bernard

    I wish the world would disintermediate the need for dickheads

    In the meantime expect to see these kinds of predictions from Benioff with increasing frequency as his own company fails to justify its valuation and he tries to keep the analysts from noticing.

    1. Zombie Womble

      Re: I wish the world would disintermediate the need for dickheads

      Time to build ourselves a 'B' Ark.

      1. John Savard Silver badge

        Re: I wish the world would disintermediate the need for dickheads

        Just remember not to send away the telephone sanitizers.

  6. AlexS
    Facepalm

    I predict the end of paper by the end of the year.

    1. Richard Jones 1
      Happy

      Your Late

      Now I read that the paperless office would be here in about 1987.

      What do you mean it is now 2012 and we still use paper? That cannot be right can it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You're Late

        Promised in tomorrow's world in 1980.

        Pedantically correcting grammar and spelling in your title.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You're Late

        I mean of not in

      3. Rukario
        Flame

        Re: You're Late

        And in 1987 I said that the paperless office would lead to greater paper consumption and waste.

        (Flame because that's what happens to all the paper.)

    2. unitron

      Well, in the case of Newsweek magazine...

      ...you're actually right.

  7. Franco Silver badge

    Wow, the CEO of a cloud computing company thinks his product is right and everyone else's is wrong. Shocker.

    My company is a Watchguard partner and their website is fecking useless since Salesforce took it over!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    Uhm, mixing things up?

    I tend to agree with this guy but then again; that's only fuelled by my own dislike of Win8. However, I wonder if he isn't contradicting himself here:

    "Instead, he said, customers are increasingly using smartphones and tablets as their primary computing devices, and that trend will only continue as the wireless networking technology improves."

    But doesn't that talk right into Win8's "alley", considering how it is fully targeting mobile and touch platforms while even somewhat limiting the desktop experience?

    I think Mr. Benioff has a good point that people have a choice these days, but how many people will use those alternatives? In popular believe moving to an alternative environment is "difficult", "time consuming", "error prone" and so on.

    I don't think its all that likely that people will look into alternatives. Instead I think they'll just sit it out and wait for Win9 to appear. And when that also turns out to be a disappointment then I think we're on the highway to "doom" indeed....

    1. Mikel

      That is the Windows 8 plan

      The problem is execution.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Uhm, mixing things up?

      "But doesn't that talk right into Win8's "alley", considering how it is fully targeting mobile and touch platforms while even somewhat limiting the desktop experience?"

      I suppose, but Windows still = PC. They are trying to break into mobile and tablet, but with few takers thusfar.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    clouds

    I don't think pc will disappear. Something has to handle the large enterprise scale of processing. If enterprises depend upon clouds, security issues will have to be faced. Clouds will become shooting galleries for hackers.

    Also, eventhough smart phones and tablets are nice, a real key board is needed for data entry. I would hate to use my android tablet for data entry. Also, large screens are needed. The little screens of smart phones and even tablets are counter productive. Servers and high power desktops will be here for a while.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: clouds

      "Something has to handle the large enterprise scale of processing."

      Yes, but none of that is done, nor has it ever been done, on the PC side. Servers handle large scale enterprise computing, not clients. It may be an internal server on a secure network going to a tablet, smartphone, etc. Today the PC is just there to show users what the servers in the datacenter are doing, but they don't really process anything other than Excel spreadsheets.

      "Also, eventhough smart phones and tablets are nice, a real key board is needed for data entry."

      Yes, they will need to come up with some slick docking station where you plug your smartphone in and the OS appears on a large screen with a keyboard.... Servers will definitely be here. Cloud computing = server computing.

  10. Trib

    "he said, customers are increasingly using smartphones and tablets as their primary computing devices"

    Well, since Windows 8 is designed to run on tablets and mobile devices, I think Windows 8 isn't dead. I do think the world will become more heterogeneous with devices people will use (Windows, iOS, Android, Windows Phone). But Windows is far from dead.

  11. Dave 150

    Headline should have been...

    Salesforce CEO Benioff Talks Shit

    Shocks no one with bullshit future prediction

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Headline should have been...

      He does have a little of his mentor's, Larry Ellison, style.... I don't think the prediction is entirely incorrect though, just overstated.

  12. Spotswood

    haha

    @Dave If I could have upvoted you 100 times, sir, I would have. This guy is the only guy Spruiking Salesforce. He'd even have you believe he invented the cloud. He blew it straight out of his amazing, revolutionary lungs. Now all I need is a dual 27" tablet with a keyboard and I can be part of his fucked up dream too. Where do I sign. He's just the next moron to ride the wave of free publicity bestowed on those who bag Windows 8 and the journos publish it for the same reason. (No offence intended Reg). I run a gardening business but wait I fucking hate Windows 8 too because, well because, they took my start button!!! Can I get a free write up? No I can't and no one should. Why? Because Windows 8 rocks. There I said it.

    1. Arctic fox
      Happy

      @Spotswood Re: "those who bag Windows 8" I realise that this question is a touch off-topic....

      ......but in British English "to bag" something would mean (usually, AFAIK) "to obtain", "to win" or in the context of hunting "to hit your target". Is it being used here to mean "to attack or denigrate"? Genuinely curious here, I am not indulging in any grammer nazi/nationalist shtick.

      1. Spotswood
        Happy

        Re: @Spotswood "those who bag Windows 8" I realise that this question is a touch off-topic....

        @Arctic Fox, Mate the word has a bit of a double meaning down here. Some people use it in the way you do and that's totally fine, but we also say to 'bag' something is to 'put it down/insult it'. :)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Stop

          Re: @Spotswood "those who bag Windows 8" I realise that this question is a touch off-topic....

          "we also say to 'bag' something is to 'put it down/insult it'"

          Why?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'd really love to do all my database and Java development on a smartphone or tablet NOT!

    1. Wardy01
      Thumb Up

      or my tablet !!

      wtf !! lol

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I honestly don't see this obsession with "cloud" stuff lately. It's just a reversion back to the old ways of dumb terminals and big servers, but worse, because the apps and/or data is being hosted outside the company. I'm not saying it's all bad; Google Docs is great when you've got people all over the world coming together to edit a single file and even chat about whatever it is you're updating.

    But there are so many, many things that modern computers do, both in the business and personal worlds, that it's simply inefficent or insecure to do remotely. One only has to look at the failure of cloud services like OnLive to see that people simply do not want this in nearly as many applications as the guys pushing to sell it seem to think we do.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I honestly don't see this obsession with "cloud" stuff lately

      Easy: it allows people without a clue to talk as if they have one because nobody can prove otherwise. It's still the same kit, but now you can avoid the kind of specifics that would immediate give you away.

      Consider it a sort of McKinseys for everyone.

    2. Vic

      > It's just a reversion back to the old ways of dumb terminals and big servers

      IBM's Thomas J. Watson is credited with having predicted a "world market for maybe five computers". Given the way this whole Cloud thing is going, he might have been extremely prescient...

      Vic.

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        > IBM's Thomas J. Watson is credited with having predicted a "world market for maybe five computers".

        That was, of course, based on their current, at that time, price point, installation costs and running costs.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "IBM's Thomas J. Watson is credited with having predicted a "world market for maybe five computers". Given the way this whole Cloud thing is going, he might have been extremely prescient..."

        Good point bringing up IBM.... This whole cloud hysteria is essentially saying IBM's centralized mainframe model was right and Sun/Microsoft's client/server model was wrong. The cloud computing environment is an attempt to rebuild the IBM mainframe functionality (automated provisioning, highly secure and reliable VMs, elastic scale, etc) with x86 and Linux. If better networks/internet was around back in the 80s, everyone would have probably just continued on with their mainframes.

    3. Kevin Johnston

      Re: I honestly don't see this obsession with "cloud" stuff lately

      It's because we have allowed salesmen to hijack definitions. Don't think of it a Cloudy or non-Cloudy, just think.....

      Cloud = Unknown Data Centre or non-cloud = Known Data Centre

      This magical 'cloud' is just a web2.0 name for someone else's data centre in an unknown location and an unknown condition with unknown security.

    4. tom dial Silver badge

      And one more thing ..

      I am retired now, but my former employer kept the organization's data on its own servers - many of them mainframes - behind carefully maintained and highly restrictive firewalls. By now they probably will have established some degree of internal cloudiness within their enclave. They allow access from the outside using equipment owned by the company and maintained by employees. They have had very few "problems," none, as far as I know, of much significance. I doubt they will deviate from this largely successful approach. I have followed the same approach for my own data.

      The last I heard, a few months back, they were moving gradually toward deployment of Windows 7 (upgrading from XP Pro) and are most unlikely to be thinking about Windows 8 for quite some time,. Given their apparent good results, and my satisfaction with a combination of Windows 7, Debian Linux, and FreeBSD, I will emulate them in that also.

  15. marc 9

    Some might say..

    He has his head in the clouds.

    1. Ramazan
      Coat

      Re: He has his head in the clouds

      and his shit all over the customers.

      // Mine with a bullshit detector

  16. CmdrX3

    Doesn't take a large reply for this one

    What a lot of bollocks should pretty much cover it.

  17. david 12 Bronze badge

    Microsoft agrees.

    Based on the view from my little corner of the world (small business), Microsoft has already decided that Windows is a declining market. We have already been cut off. From here, it looks like the end of Windows.

    I don't know what the demographics are for Salesforce.com, but I'm going to guess it's biased towards the 'small' end of the business environement.

    1. h4rm0ny

      Re: Microsoft agrees.

      "We have already been cut off"

      What does this mean? Are you meaning that MS products aren't available to you?

      1. david 12 Bronze badge

        Re: Microsoft agrees.

        "What does this mean? Are you meaning that MS products aren't available to you?"

        Yes. That would be products like Microsoft Small Business Server. It isn't available to me. It has been cut.

        They are pushing cloudy products like Office 365. It appears (from my small corner, which is small business), to be the end of Windows.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: Microsoft agrees.

          "Yes. That would be products like Microsoft Small Business Server. It isn't available to me. It has been cut. They are pushing cloudy products like Office 365. It appears (from my small corner, which is small business), to be the end of Windows."

          Yes, they're pushing the new products, but you could just get Server 2012 for your business, yes? That does everything that Small Business Server did (and more) doesn't it? And you can still buy non-365 Office. That's not going to go away any time in the forseeable future. MS will still sell you products that meet all the functionality of previous products.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft agrees.

      "I don't know what the demographics are for Salesforce.com, but I'm going to guess it's biased towards the 'small' end of the business environement."

      Just from my personal experience of performing migrations away from Salesforce (and business is good!), most Salesforce users are small-medium shops who didn't really spend any time looking at what they needed in terms of functionality, and the decision makers fell into the 'the advert looks nice, I'll buy that' category.

      As mentioned by a previous poster, Salesforce is there to trap your data - small shops will use it, and when they realise it is too limited for what they need, they have to start again which costs more in the long run.

  18. Brangdon

    Hence Windows RT

    That kind of reasoning is why Microsoft have started targeting tablets, and why they won't let Windows RT fail. It may take them a few iterations to get it right, but they won't give up until they do. Otherwise Android will grow until it takes over the desktop as well as tablets - Google will add multi-tasking and multiple windows, and work on notebooks and laptops and desktops. Tablets (and to a lesser extent phones) are where Microsoft have chosen to make their stand.

    Since Microsoft have chosen to do that, and shown themselves willing to compromise the desktop experience if it helps win on tablets, the articles predictions become moot. In the medium term, it could even be the death of Android, at least on higher-end devices.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hence Windows RT

      I agree with what you say about the threat to Android on higher-end devices. Personally I think Microsoft have made an interesting move to provide apps and applications with Windows 8 (if they had just left the start menu icon to launch the Modern UI and access settings, that would have prevented a large percentage of initial usability complaints - Start8 is a nice way to ease the transition)

      I can't really see why Google would bother with creating a full blown desktop OS - they are fairly committed to the SAAS model themselves (search, docs, maps) and Android was just a nice way of making sure they captured more of your data for the mobile advertising space; it doesn't even register when you look at Google' s financials, its all about adverts based on data mining.

      They probably want the desktop to mostly die out, so you cannot work and keep your data locally (i.e. privately)... for their business model, your information needs to be transmitted and captured somehow, either through Google Search, Chrome or an Android app.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OMG

    A CEO that doesn't know what he's talking about?

    We need to catch Mr.Benioff and breed him before it's too late!

  20. Gerard Krupa

    Shocking

    CEO of company that reported a loss 2 months ago willing to say anything to get headlines and increase said company's profile? That never happens.

  21. Compact101

    There may be less imputes to move from 7 to 8, but people still need computers with OS's.

    And in the same way sites like this get all excited over the latest IOS, people still like to upgrade.

    In the future though they probably won't pay do much to upgrade their own machine, as like he says OS's aren't as important as they used to be.

    Of course hardware manufactures want the upgrade as it drives sales it the same way brown is the next black is the next blue.

    Salesforce doesn't offer that upgrade cycle to hardware manufacturers, who advertise A LOT....

  22. jon 68
    Mushroom

    o/s ? who cares?

    Here's the question, who cares what o/s you're running? I certainly don't. Or at least I wouldn't if all my apps ran cross o/s. While some of my company's apps, the web based ones at least, can run fine in the cloud or cross o/s, most are designed to run on windows.

    Windows 7, an excellent release by Microsoft standards, isn't going to be replaced anytime soon by Windows 8. The IFKAM ( interface formerly known as metro ) will work fine for some folks, and won't for others. Quite literally, there's no impetus for corporate CTO/CIOs to shift to Windows 8, so it'll be as successful as Vista was or wasn't ( depending on your criteria, of course).

    At some point we won't need the latest and greatest Nvidia card to run Crysis 23, and tablets with docking bays may be running all your email and office applications, but it won't be soon. Hopefully by the time the tablets/smartphones/byo piece of crap device fanboys will be shouted down by the 'it's all handled via your cranial cyber link interface' fanboys.

    Who knows. who cares.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too late

    Windows 7 (aka 'all ur computer belong to MS') was the end of Windows for me at least.

  24. mike acker

    Fragments: Entertainment | Industry

    IMHO ( which is free ) the industry is fragmenting,-- with the entertainment and business sectors going separate ways.

    Win8 is going into the entertainment & Gaming business.

    Canonical/Linux will pick up business computing.

    why?

    Windows is a hacker's paradise that is beyond repair.

  25. Sil
    Thumb Down

    Pure B.S.

    This is such B.S.

    How many people can work productively while working exclusively on a phone or a tablet?

    For some jobs with very little input sure, but for the rest of us phones and or tablets come in addition of at least one windows PC.

  26. pctechxp

    The only tablet I'll consider

    Will be the Surface Pro.

    Why:

    1. It'll have a proper CPU so will run a full fat version of Windows meaning I can run the applications I need/want to when I'm away from my desktop.

    2. I'll no doubt be able to link the peripherals I need from time to time to it such as an external DVD or hard drive.

    3. It's lighter than a laptop/Ultrabook so transportation is easier.

    4. It'll have a mouse and keyboard so I can actually do meaningful work on it unlike the iPad posers that can only post short messages to facebook and twitter because its too annoying but hey they feel good because they shelled out 500+ quid on it so it must be good.

    Initially at least LTE will be for the moneybags like the Salesforce CEO and as others have said, smart business owners won't want the vendor lock in.

    We already have the tools we need, that is VPN for offsite access to customer records stored on server cluster or if you really must use the marketing term 'the private cloud'

  27. John Savard Silver badge

    Prediction

    If lots and lots of people don't bother to upgrade from Windows 7 or even XP...

    expect more lawsuits aimed at killing Linux.

  28. Cyfaill
    Linux

    End of Windows ? At long last, just not all at once.

    The intelligent readers of this forum are not likely to go all at once... away from Microsoft products, but it is inevitable. People know I have been an ardent user of Linux for 15 years. I have never had a need for anything Windows, a GUI yes, just not Microsoft’s concepts of the world. It is safe to saythe Linux Kernel won in the end.

    Apple is struggling with the end game of suing everyone now. Because it lost mainly due to the inability to cover the entirety of the market and being closed source with heavy licensing. One can not rule the world. The Linux kernel won because it is adaptable to many needs and is available with but few obvious restrictions of its use.

    For those who are just lost with what Linux is:

    Android, Google, Chrome and Chromium, 95%-Plus all Supercomputers, Most devices used in the world requiring an operating system... like engine management systems... all the way down to your pocket widgets. And least we forget to mention it... Apple is running a variant of Unix on its "devices". that leaves only a very small world running Microsoft products now. They are still the majority of PC's it true but given time as the world moves on... Microsoft will not be there in reality of need... just in the reality of the leaching the pay offs due to threats and unjust legal maneuvers, as usual these days. In point of fact the presence of Microsoft will most likely be noticed in the cost of Android devices to its users but not their function. Windows 8 will be as expected a fail... Let me put it to you like this. If Microsoft was responsible for the function of Android ( justification of the lawsuits over patents ), it would be reflected in the function of Microsoft’s devices in Mobile but it of course it is not there, is it.

    1. Wardy01

      Re: End of Windows ? At long last, just not all at once.

      So little knowledge, or just narrow minded?

      Microsoft consists of 94,000 employees, none of these people will want windows to die, and the top 10% of these people have the resources to ensure that this is the case no matter what you might think.

      No company simply commits suicide for the sake of it.

      Microsoft just like to test their products out there rather than in a dev team which is crazy, but it keeps us amused, they are clearly doing that with windows 8 ... look out for the complete change in direction on window 9 lol.

  29. InnerCynic
    Mushroom

    Head in the clouds

    Spoken like your typical "I have it, too bad for you if you don't" pencil neck knucklehead.

  30. Glostermeteor

    I totally agree that the PC is becoming obsolete, I have just replaced my old creaking laptop with an Android transformer tablet. Where I disagree however is that we are all going to move to cloud computing where local storage is not a factor. I personally use the cloud for backups but I simply do not trust any of the cloud vendors to keep my data safe. It would only take one 'whoops sorry' moment for your entire life to be wiped out. I also happen to still visit parts of UK where there is no wifi or 3g coverage rendering cloud computing totally useless. So in summary, yes to tablets instead of PCs, but also a big yes to local storage.

  31. jason 7
    FAIL

    I am seeing a definate plan/shift in the tech sales/tech reporting world

    It seems to me that a lot of folks in tech sales and tech journalism are scared stiff that folks might realise that tech for the business world has flat-lined for some years now.

    Most business users were sorted for day to day business work with a Windows XP machine with a dual core CPU and 2GB of ram.

    That was it, game over, we can all move on. Nothing to see here. If those machines could be kept running they would do all the work necessary for another 10 years.

    But if course if all the customers realised that, where would that leave all the tech evangelists, journos and sales people? Screwed basically. Out of a job as folks just ignored their cries of "look at this! You need this!!"

    So what's the spin they have put on it?

    Windows and the desktop is dead!

    Really?

    What you really mean is that Windows is pretty reliable, does pretty much all you need, its familiar, folks have it at home and the PC's are still more than powerful enough so why would you rush in to buy new kit?

    It's not fun and shiny, its not new and exciting. No it isn't but it gets the job done and makes money. Has done for the past 20 years and in spite of all the BS they keep spouting, the next 20 as well.

    So they are working as hard as they can to make folks think they need to turn their existing systems on their head to revitalise their careers and bottom lines. Essentially buying expensive mobile kit and infrastructure that really works for maybe 5% of any corporations workforce.

    It's very easy to say all that Cloud/BYOD/Mobile crap when you job requires no further IT requirement than email and Twitter.

  32. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

    Kill Windows?

    As long as there are office jobs there will still be a need for a PC. As long as there are PCs they will need an operating system. As far as OSs for PCs are concerned, MSFT has a strong position (just because they are still the dominant OS, for better of worse).

    MSFT's failure to get into cloudiness may not be tremendously good for them but it, by itself, does not threaten their core business, which is a PC OS + stuff that they bundle with the PC OS (like MS Office).

    What can and does threaten their core business IMHO, is when they are trying to take their PC OS and make it look like it's a mobile phone menu. Windows was never a great OS but it was good enough for most. If it will stop being good enough (and treating PC as a phone wannabe is a good way of achieving it) - that will kill Windows. Some stupid "cloud" will not.

    1. jason 7

      Re: Kill Windows?

      Well I think the reason for Windows 8 is that MS have finally realised that not all of their OS need to be corporate driven. They know that corporations always skip one of two.

      Windows 8 is a domestic release! There, I've said it.

      MS knows that the corps were never going to go for 8 in any numbers. Thats why 8 is the way it is. Its there to cater for the fun home market and mobile space.

      It isn't for Doris in Accounts.

      Windows 9 or 10 will be back to a more conservative business orientated feel I bet.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BYOD will die a death!

    It costs more to secure someone elses device and/or to secure multiple devices on multiple platforms.

    All it will take is a security failing or ICO breach. Time will tell.

  34. Wardy01
    FAIL

    Salesforce CEO ? ROFL ... What would he know about good software?

    I've never seen a clean Salesforce implementation, have you?

    Always cluttered, distusting layouts, promotes poor coding standards, the API is crazy unreliable, and he's preaching about something not looking the way it used to?

    WTF ...

    When he shows us to make a a good CRM I might start to believe what he has to say a little bit, but CRM is nowhere near OS in product terms.

    If windows 8 don't take off like Microsoft wants then its obvious what will happen, windows 9 will be more like windows 7, either way windows aint dead, some 94,000 people over at Microsoft will make sure of that !!!

  35. shaunhw
    FAIL

    Slow - and possibly unreliable.

    It'll take just a few major nework outages, and loads of people sat there doing very little, and some angry bosses to bring the "cloud" into disrepute.

    Even MS themselves had serious problems when they decided to implement MSDN in the cloud under Azure in the UK and retreated backwards. Meanwhile we couldn't download anything for days.

    Bring your own device isn't so good either. Doing things in a web browser (if that's the plan) can be tortous at times, for example typing this message under MS IE 9 is awfully slow, and a game of "guess where the cursor is now", often has to be played.

    Only the most rudimentary tasks can be done on a tablet anyway. Regarding the benefits of touch only devices - I think we have a case of mass delusion here along with hardware and OS vendors desperate for something new to sell.

    Touch typing on a glass screen ? Much easier to connect a keyboard... Are you trying to click on that text web-link with your finger and keep hitting the one above it ? Connect a mouse and you can be much more precise about where you click. Oh er - What have we got now, but a bog standard computer! Touch screen web browising is a horrible experience, even on dedicated touch screen OS. I have to blow up the screen to press links, and eveb then no tactile feedback is present. Awful really,

    We shall see of course.

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