my experience with Disability Living Allowance!
iDevice-maker Foxconn has confirmed to the media that it has been pushing for a Chinese worker with brain damage caused by a factory accident to leave the hospital. Zhang Tingzhen's family said the manufacturer, which makes kit for Apple and other tech firms, has been sending text messages to them since July, demanding that he …
Or a bunch of people with jobs.
We have no problem with the disabled when they work or have contributed to society at some point in their lives, but those that never have deserve no support from the rest of us.
Having IBS and one arm doesn't disqualify you from working, there are pleanty of people working with far worse disabilities.
@AC 18:08 -
Are you religious? If you are, how do you cope with the complete disregard for the teachings of every single religion out there? They all tell us to take care of and help the less fortunate, and refusing care to those in need for personal gain is saying that not only do you not care about the teachings of your particular faith, but that you are a horrible human being as well.
Good luck with life as a sociopath, and if hell exists, your own private furnace to burn in :)
I'm not religious, but I actually do care for my fellow man, and frankly if I was religious, I'd be a saint compared to those that supposedly follow the teachings.
I have been in full time employment since I left University over 16 years ago and you certainly don't speak for me. Someone unlucky enough to be born with cerbral palsey or severe Down's syndome may never be in a position where they are able to hold down a job or even care for themselves. If my taxes can help pay to support these people and ensure they have a decent quality of life then I am happy. After all it means that I am paying for the privilage of living in a society that is at least partly based on comapssion, emapthy a dignity rather than being shaped by by callous, cold hearted fuckers like you.
I imagine that many of the people in this position would give anything to be able to work and contribute to society However being born different or a chance accident that changed their lives means that they are not lucky enough to be able to. That's all that separates us from them, Luck. Try remebering that.
U.S. illegal workers get full Social Security benefits as soon as they cross the border... Free food ,free housing,free medical, bonus for having hordes of children .& all @ the expense of the chinese...(thats where the monies come from to cover the free-loaders in the U.S.A....)... If the chinese workers only knew that they were paying the freight for the Mexicans in the U.S. they would nuke Mexico... lol :P
I work four fucking jobs, mate. 16+ hours a day, 7 days a week. That includes running my own business where I am responsible for the incomes of two other people. I own my own home, so I pay corporate taxes, municipal property taxes, provincial taxes and federal taxes. All of which I do without trickery or tomfoolery to try to declare myself some sort of "in need" charity case to the government to get a negative tax rate, despite being capable of paying my fair share.
You do not, and fuck you very much to boot. There are people in this world who don't give a fig and mooch off the system, it's true. They are however a pretty goddamned small percentage of the populace, all told. There are people who genuinely need help; from the unfortunates born with disabilities, to folks who just ran into a bad patch and need a leg up. I am proud to live in a society morally and ethically advanced enough to provide an organised – and mandatory – system for providing assistance to these people.
Only sociopathic assholes and the very young truly believe that we all get what we deserve according to how hard we work. That's complete bullshit. We get what we get by pure fluke as much as anything else. I could have been born with any interesting combination of genetic disorders worse than those I have today. I wasn't. I could have been born to a poorer family, or one where one of the breadwinners got killed/disabled to the point of being a burden when I was young. I didn't.
I grew up in a household of relative privilege; provided a decent middle class life and opportunities to both succeed and fail in an environment that had numerous safety nets. I was provided an education, a chance to schmooze and meet the right people. I was gifted with early access to computers, and educators who taught me to express myself through writing.
I worked hard some times, slacked off at others, but to say that I earned my place in the world – as though all my successes were mine alone, having occurred in a vacuum without the support and care of others – is bullshit of the highest calibre. Yes, I worked my ass of. Yes, I still do. But there are others out there working just as hard and earning incomes below the poverty line.
Some aren't gifted with my intelligence; an unfortunate happenstance of genetics. Some merely lack my education, or the contacts I earned growing up. Some were injured, born addicted to substances, brutalised during their lives or psychologically traumatised by war, disease or other things I cannot contemplate.
What kind of human being would I be – what kind of human being are you - to trumpet a sense of personal entitlement celebrating an ownership of privilege while simultainiously disclaiming responsibility to those less fortunate? There are people in this world who need our help, goddamn it; people willing to work hard for a better life. We can't yet help all of them, but we damned sure have the responsibility to help those in our own nation.
So…noblesse oblige, motherfucker. Now get down off your high horse before the proles rightfully shoot you off. You don't speak for "those with jobs" at all.
Ironic that Foxconn hails from Taiwan – you know, that place where the Chinese nationalists entrenched themselves after they lost the civil war to the communists and were drove off the mainland? Yet their companies deploy factories across the Popular Republic and harass its workers like they own the country. Meanwhile the communist government seems blissfully oblivious to such abuses, using its time and resources to bicker with Japan about a couple rocks half-lost in the middle of the sea.
Really, some worker's paradise you got over there...
According to the firm, Zhang needs to have a disability assessment...
Employees in China who are disabled ... can get compensation payouts ...once their disability is assessed and graded by a panel of medical experts.
... but that means that he needs to leave hospital in Shenzhen and travel 70km to Huizhou...
Ah, now here is the part I don't understand.
Why does the assessment have to happen in Huizhou? Are there no medical experts in or around the Shenzhen hospital that are capable of performing this assessment? Failing that, are the panel in Huizhou incapable of travel?
I guess it is just like in this country where you have to climb up two flights of stairs in a building with no wheelchair access to attend an assessment centre to prove that you are unable to walk.
If you attend the assessment, then you are clearly able to walk, otherwise you wouldn't have got there. If you don't attend. then you lose your benefits because they were unable to assess you.
"I guess it is just like in this country where you have to climb up two flights of stairs in a building with no wheelchair access to attend an assessment centre to prove that you are unable to walk.
If you attend the assessment, then you are clearly able to walk, otherwise you wouldn't have got there. If you don't attend. then you lose your benefits because they were unable to assess you."
Not entirely the case.... you get an appointment to attend a assessment centre that during an emergency situation you would have to negotiate stairs as the lift would be out of order. The centres are usually located a fair distance from public parking or public transport. ... you can opt for a "accessible" centre, but for these you have to wait..... wait a long time.... all the time you are not getting money you are entitled to.
I was in a similar situation where I appealed a decision for DLA, I had waited 6 months for a hearing date, and if I wanted one where the building was more accessible, i would have had to wait a further 6 months and travel 45 miles. I took the decision to take the first appointment thinking what’s the chances of fire alarm going off? My other half dropped me off right outside and went to park up. my appointment was on the top floor. along a long corridor. During the appeal it was brought up how long I stood up in the lift while it went to the top floor and video of me walking down the corridor to the appeals room. The waiting room also had video and had timings of how long it too you to walk across the room. as well as timings of how long I was stood up for. there was also limited seating. others waiting had no option but to stand. Half way through the appeal, the fire alarm went off and the building had to be cleared. at the end of the hearing, I was basically told that If I continued my appeal then I could loose the mobility component that had been given and was hinted that this would be the case. I felt it was better to keep what I had and was not worth the risk to loose, but didn’t thing it was right to be treated the way I was.. I took the gamble and told them I wanted to continue... they denied the appeal of the care component and they upheld the mobility component.. The whole experience was traumatic and I would NEVER got through it again !!
@AC 18:10 GMT
Your story proves that you were capable of much standing and walking, and you were therefore mobile. They were right to suggest that you would lose a mobility allowance which you clearly were not entitled to. Please stop defrauding the system of taxpayer's hard-earned money.
Excuse me. What a person is capable of doing on a one off basis, when circumstances leave no other option, has absolutely no frigging bearing on what that person is able to do day in and day out. Nor does it address how much recovery time, their exertions might necessitate after the fact.
For myself I have tendonitis in both wrists and elbows. Day to day I am perfectly fine, but after about two hours of any repetetive activity which requires gripping and controlled motion (eg painting with a brush or roller) I start feeling the pain, and by about halfway through a working week I'm on anti-inflamatory drugs and planning ahead of time how I will lift that bottle or glass of water.
@Martin Budden - The ability to stand for a short period of time, or the ability to walk for a short period of time does NOT prove that they are capable of much of anything. It shows that if necessary, due to law, the person can do it. It doesn't show how much pain they were in, it doesn't show how long it took to recover, or the consequences of doing it.
Its idiocy like yours which is hurting our most vulnerable members of society, and I for one am ashamed of attitudes like yours.
An example - my mother can walk for about 20 minutes at most. After that time, the pain in her body will have made her exhausted and she basically needs several hours to recover from it. Using your view, she would be able to work in a mobile job just fine. Which is absolute nonsense.
Idiot. I can if absolutely necessary walk at a medium-ish pace for 15 - 20 minutes. Got to really push myself, but can do it. What follows, though, is a lot of painkillers and a few days (minimum) of being stuck on the sofa or in bed unable to move. Perhaps if you'd ever been in the position where you have to try and plan when you're going to need to toilet to minimise trips up and down the stairs you might be a little more sympathetic. I'm under 30 yet my 70 year old grandad had better mobility than I do.
For what it's worth, I don't claim DLA or the mobility allowance, though I'm likely to be entitled to the former. As I've got full time employment, I figured I'd rather the money went to someone who needed it more than me. I doubt it actually does but there you go.
@ Ben Tasker
"For what it's worth, I don't claim DLA or the mobility allowance, though I'm likely to be entitled to the former"
I do understand your mindset that as you work you feel the money would sooner go to someone that needs it, but that’s not how it works. the result ia a DWP bill that approx 200 quid a month lower for the government. But if you are entitled to it, CLAIM IT, if you don’t need it, donate the money to a disability charity, that way people that really need the help will get it, (so long as you select your charity carefully)...
Every genuine claim that is made in the long term helps out every genuine claimant as it reduces the % of fraudulent claims that the government like to tell everyone about as they try to reduce the bills. They need to get their own house in order before they victimise vulnerable people...
But if you are entitled to it, CLAIM IT, if you don’t need it, donate the money to a disability charity, that way people that really need the help will get it, (so long as you select your charity carefully)..
I have to admit, I never thought of doing that. It had occurred to me (as I posted) that I'm under no illusion that it does go elsewhere. You're right though, it's worth claiming if only to correct the Government's stats a little.
"Your story proves that you were capable of much standing and walking"
my story proves nothing of the sort.
My story and many others like mine proves the DWP uses underhanded tactics to "prove" peoples abilities are not what they claim.
My particular story had been shortened a little to keep it a reasonable length for people to read. but to make it clear for you the additional bits are as follows...
MY disability is a severe case of Ankylosing spondylitis, look it up.... within the space of 3 years I went from a physically fit person to someone that can hardly get out of a char without help. I cannot stand for more than about 5 minutes without severe pain, I cant sit in the same place for more than 15 min in the same place !! I have worked all my life and never took anything out of the state only putting in via my taxes and NI contributions.
The assessment, as I said, My other half dropped me off and then she met me outside where I had waited. sitting on the steps to the entrance... The lift has a bar to lean against, the long corridor had seats to sit on along the length which I used. At no time did I stand unaided or walk further than I had indicated in my form.
My whole point was the system in place is set to catchpeople out. And yes, there does need to be facilities to catch fraudulent claims but the system they use also traps people that try not to let their disability get the better of them. You have a choice, never walk more than 100 meters again without resting, or push yourself through the pain to do more. the latter puts you at risk of loosing money you are entitled to.
Also, When the fire alarm went off, I had to leave the building. I did so with the aid of two people either side of me, helping me down the stairs. having to rest for a minute or two on each floor. by the time I got out of the building, the all clear had been given to re-enter the building. I needed a rest and have a glass of water with time to stop me shaking and the pain from the over exertion to subside before I went back in. Within fivemin of gettin back in the building, back up to the appeal room, the fire alarm again went off and an evacuation was again ordered. This time, I was very angry and told them to fuck off and I wasn’t going anywhere unless I could see/smell smoke....
After the appeal hearing, I was advised that the mobility component was never in doubt, but they had to inform me that to go ahead with an appeal i was in danger of the appeals panel removing my claim for mobility, but in reality, for the particular condition I have it was an automatic grant of the mobility component, and they would have not withdrew it, even though they indicated it was a distinct possibility. They also told me that at the time of my initial application that from the details given I would not have been eligible for the care component, but after the appeal, it was most likely that I would currently be eligible, but the appeal deals with how I was at the time of my original claim. My claim was not due for renewal for another 6 months, and when I filled in my form again, I again was denied the care component. Although I know by their rules I do qualify and am entitled to the care component at the higher rate which is over £300 per month, I could again appeal, but after the traumatic experience of last time there is no way I am going to go through it again !
So FUCK YOU Martin Budden, you don’t have a clue on the real world and what people have to go through to get what they are entitled to. Yes, the benefits system is filled with people making claims and getting money they are not entitled to which makes it harder for people like me. The fact the last government had a policy of "pay now ask later" made it easier for fraudulent claims, but it only makes it worse when cunts like you make generalisations and make accusations on things you don’t know the full facts to. WANKER !
Someone I know tripped (no-one's fault) and ruptured a disk (badly), causing inability to drive for more than a few minutes (essential for the job) and serious back pain. It'll probably never get any better. End of career, and definitely nothing to envy.
The company's insurance has taken over paying his salary and pension contributions until he reaches retirement age (many years away). This even includes a new "company" car every three years and free fuel, because the car perk allowed unlimited use of the car by his wife when he wasn't using it for work.
I don't suppose all UK employers are this decent, but the story from China rather puts things in perspective. Hope people get to read this behind the great firewall.
...that Foxconn is scum. I mean they caused his injuries and they want him to leave the hospital to go for an interview. How about Foxconn sending someone to the hospital to interview him since he's not physically able to leave the hospital without a great risk to dying?
This is just outrageous, IMO.
The disability laws (sic), do allow them to stop paying - but would any respectable company after they distroyed the person's life? You'd think they would have enough decency to at least pay all his medial bills and give him some subsidy to live on. Do you have any idea how much money Foxconn generates in revenue a year using a million slaves?
In the 19th and early 20th century physical and political battles were fought in W Europe to win some basic rights for manual workers. Some of those battles having been won, manufacturers move the work to China, where those battles haven't been fought yet, with the added bonus that the abuse is outsourced, so they can pretend they don't know about it. Then they lobby our governments to reduce "regulation", so it can all start again here.
If the hospital; removed half this poor guys brain, what sort of "medical expert" does it take to figure this guy's quality of life is down the toilet.
THIS is the price that Chinese workers pay so the CrApple owners can masturbate their scratched up phones. Hell of a price to pay. Wouldn't happen at Foxconn plant in TaiWan.
Foxconn and Apple - totally amoral.
Yes, and Apple...
and Acer, Amazon, Cisco , Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft , Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba, and Vizio to name a few more of Foxconn's customers...
and who amongst us have bought from none of these brands? mote, beam, first stone, etc.
So let's make that Western consumerism and outsourced labour.
Why "F" & "A"? "F" because they are the ones attracting headlines, due to their assosciation with "A" for doing the shit. And "A" because they are the ones who constantly crow about how bloody wonderful they are and charge a premium price into the bargain, when their labour sourcing practices are not one single whit different to most of the rest of the industry.
The rest simply say here's a product at the prices you demanded, your culpability in slave and child labour practices is assumed. Just as it is when you buy 99 cent underpants and ten dollar jeans.
Given a choice between overpriced crap, and functionally identical crap from the exact same source sold with a fair margin, I will go with cheap every time. It might not make any difference to the poor bastard putting my crap together, but i'll be damned to the reverse ingestion of pineapples before I'll pay a fooking premium for nothing but the logo on the outside of the product.
>"You cannot imagine the suffering they put me through, how I had to fight every inch of the way just to get money so we can take care of our son."
Was this a literal translation? Are inches used in China?
(*) And laziness 'cause I can't be buggered to look it up myself.
"Foxconn, mainly due to its role as manufacturer of Apple hardware, has been the figurehead firm for Chinese labour rights over the last few years, after suicides at its plants, riots, strikes and allegations of underage, underpaid, overworked employees"
Sounds like the US prior to the 1930's.
although they could be a little more sensitive. The Chinese system is completely mental as far as benefits / healthcare goes. Often a person will need to travel *back to their hometown* in order to receive benefits or medial attention for free. Having to travel 100's of miles for an assessment is not unusual, but it does seem Foxconn need to find a way to work the system here to help a little.
with half your brain removed - do you need to keep your head tilted at all times? If you shake your head, does the brain flop around inside? Or do they put in some dummy place-filler? (could be the new rage: look at my silicon implants! no, not there, higher!)
Maybe Paris can share here experience...
The electrocution cost him half his brain? Do that two more times, he'll be a politician!
Either he was really, really unlucky with it, or that must have been some serious power - 11kV or something? I suppose something lower with bad protection might inflict nasty injuries before being shut off, if his head hit a live wire with no RCD it could be very nasty by the time someone hit the breaker.
Apart from the electrocution itself, which obviously shouldn't have happened, it sounds more like "injured guy gets screwed by dumb disability/welfare law" rather than Foxconn themselves being in the wrong: if the law says he's got to go and be assessed in some other city, that's not Foxconn's fault.
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