back to article Tim Cook: 'So sorry for Apple's crap maps app - try Bing or Nokia'

Apple CEO Tim Cook has, out of the blue, apologised for the crap Apple maps app in iOS 6 - and suggested punters turn to rivals Microsoft, Google and Nokia. The letter published on Friday on Apple.com states that everyone at Apple is "extremely sorry" for "the frustration" that the new satnav-like software caused for loyal …

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  1. Ben Holmes
    Happy

    Ahahahahaha

    That is all.

    Sent from my iPhone

    1. Erwin Hofmann
      Mushroom

      Goodness Gracious Me

      ... "That is all" ... ?! ... well, this is more than can be expected ... "Goodness Gracious Me" ... there is light at the horizon, at least since the brightness himself (Jobs) is dimming away ... Apple admits a failure (rather quickly) ... maybe it's time to consider Apple products ... still though, waging "nuclear war" on other tech companies does not sound anything like as: "Everything we do at Apple is aimed at making our products the best in the world" ... rather than: "Everything we do at Apple is aimed at making our products the only remaining in the world" ...

      1. solidsoup
        Thumb Down

        @ Erwin

        So, let me get this one straight.

        When iPhone 4 had attenuation issues, Jobs did not explicitly apologize, but offered free cases - something that cost Apple money and had value for the consumers.

        Fast forward to Tim Cook.

        When iOS 6 maps are inherently unusable, Cook apologizes, but rather than offering anything of value for the mistake (e.g. iTunes gift card for Sygic or other map app), he suggests people use Apple Maps more as a solution.

        Am I the only one who sees this as a step backward and would prefer Jobs non-apology with associated compensation (no matter how small)?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Be honest, this makes no difference whatsoever, I've never used the facility on any of my phones, if in the car I use a Tom Tom, and sometimes a bit of paper called a road atlas.

      There's so much reliance on electronic devices that will all let you down at one time or another.

      A paper, chart, map or Atlas doesn't run out of batteries, doesn't give false readings.

      1. Mark .

        But if that's your attitude, why spend money on the most expensive phone in the first place? You could say that of all the functions in phones. Stick with your paper, chart, map and atlas.

        Or alternatively, get a phone that doesn't run out of battery so quick like an iphone...

      2. Naughtyhorse

        dunno about your atlas but mine refuses to update itself - as new stuff gets built, and never provides a hint on traffic conditions either.....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Naughtyhorse

          Equally, neither does my sat nav.

          1. Naughtyhorse

            Re: @Naughtyhorse

            mine either, which is why i use my phone :D

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Chet Mannly

        "Be honest, this makes no difference whatsoever, I've never used the facility on any of my phones,"

        No difference to you, its a key feature for a lot of people, and the functionality has been deliberately crippled over a spat.

        For all Apple's mantras about their user experience, they have sacrificed it pretty quickly in this case.

        I maintain that Jobs would never have allowed this to ship, not even released as a bets. Never a fan of Jobs myself, but he always maintained an absolute focus on the user experience, which is the sole reason they can charge a premium on everything they sell.

        1. Derezed
          Meh

          K

          What they SHOULD have done was plastered the word "BETA" all over it (or even better "ALPHA"). That way when you end up in the middle of a forest on farm tracks (like I did with Google mapping), they can say "Ah ha! But you should have realised it was only in beta/alpha...". Releasing unfinished software to the general population for beta testing is now de jure! Get with the fricking programme!

      4. Anonymous John

        "A paper, chart, map or Atlas doesn't run out of batteries, doesn't give false readings."

        They don't make phone calls either.

      5. Archibald Trumpetbeetle
        Alert

        This comment posted via royal mail!

        Because my phone battery ran out.

      6. Wize

        Missing lots of functionality

        "A paper, chart, map or Atlas doesn't run out of batteries, doesn't give false readings."

        So, if you are lost in an unfamiliar town, you have a full map of the UK down to street level for all towns and villages?

        Do you also pack a compass and sextant for locating your position?

        Do you get a new set of maps every year to cover all those new roads?

        I've seen inaccurate UK atlases either missing out new motorways or including new ones that are behind schedule and not yet built.

        1. Bob. Hitchen
          Holmes

          Re: Missing lots of functionality

          Odd I managed with maps for most of my life. You actually use landmarks for positioning - go figure! GPS would have been handy in thick fog on some army exercises but I wouldn't trust any electronic stuff in mountain areas that could definitely lead to a "dead end".

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Dear Tim...

      You suggestion is only a very small part of the problem.

      Any app that uses mapping (and there are LOTS), now uses the shite maps. There is no fix for these apps. If you are too stupid to understand this additional (and more serious) aspect to the problem, ask a grownup for help.

  2. hitmouse
    FAIL

    Hey Tim

    Try offering an update that allows user to change the system default (or to roll back to iOS5) That would be a real admission of the problem.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Hey Tim

      Yeah that won't lead to a massive wave of problems since it's not designed to work this way.

      1. Naughtyhorse
        Trollface

        Re: Hey Tim

        yet it appears to be designed to work _this_ way???

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Hey Tim

          Maps with cruddy data that you can avoid with a different app or using Safari.

          Vs

          Getting hundreds of millions of people to uninstall in some unsupported fashion to an earlier version. Cue hordes of bricked devices and mass hysteria!

          Idiot.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: some unsupported fashion

            It's only unsupported as long as it's ...unsupported.

          2. pdxbrit
            Facepalm

            Re: Hey Tim

            Umm, who said anything about unsupported? Did you read the original post?

            Let me spell it out for you, in case this is a bit difficult.

            There's nothing to prevent you installing an older version of iOS except the hurdles that Apple put in place to prevent that. There are *zero* technical reasons for this. What was being asked for here is perfectly reasonable and perfectly feasible. The poster here wasn't suggesting people jailbreak their devices, he was suggesting Apple allow them to downgrade, and that is something over which they have complete control.

    2. Mark .

      Re: Hey Tim

      Indeed. But then Apple would no longer be able to run stories of "X% of users on latest IOS within days, Android users have to wait!"

      The reality may be that Android users are better off waiting until the OS is tried and tested by the manufacturer for their specific device, rather than being rushed out all at once just to get some marketing spin. Unfortunately the reality doesn't seem to make as good marketing.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No apologies?

    cough-MobileMe-launch-cough

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Steve must be turning in his grave

    Can you imagine Jobs having the humility to apologise over a failing of Apple's like that?

    No me neither.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Steve must be turning in his grave

      Well, when he did the antenna presentation he at least offered a bumper to iPhone 4 owners.

      Tim Cook could have offered a road atlas :)

      1. Chris 171

        Re: Steve must be turning in his grave

        Tim may has well of done, he name checked Nokia.....

        This sure is a different kind of apple showing itself.

        1. Greg J Preece

          Re: Steve must be turning in his grave

          Tim may has well of done, he name checked Nokia.....

          Ouch

    2. Richard Cartledge

      Re: Steve must be turning in his grave

      Jobs' advisor was Tim Cook and he told him not to apologise and Jobs talked about "the problem with smartphones" rather than iPhones. Genius.

  6. Bob Vistakin
    Holmes

    Apple has peaked

    And still no-one is listening. Yes, they make the most money from those who prefer style over substance. Yes, it made them the most valuable co in the world. But all these duds just go to show there's only 1 place to go from there, and the proof is in the cracks starting to appear in the sales figures.

    iPhone4 sales flag: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444025204577547361858270658.html

    iPhone5 sales miss estimates: http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58774:iPhone-5-sales-miss-estimates&catid=69

    1. dougal83
      Thumb Up

      Re: Apple has peaked

      Thanks Bob. I was just about to Google that! :)

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Apple has peaked

      Wow bob, that's an interesting point that i've never heard before. If someone guessed apple would sell 10 million phones in 3 days (and we're talking about professional guessers who are always right, obv) and then apple only sell 5 million, well that must mean apple are doomed. And I thought they'd just grow for ever, expanding out into the universe bringing iProducts to all the space aliens. You've certainly taught me a thing or two about economics.

      Yes, I am being sarcastic.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple has peaked

        "You've certainly taught me a thing or two about economics.

        Yes, I am being sarcastic."

        Sarcasm protip- if you feel the need to tell someone that you're being sarcastic, you should probably go away and practise.

        1. sabroni Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re:sarcasm protip

          Thank you so much anonymous smartarse. I'm new to sarcasm so any pointers like "don't actually tell people you're being sarcastic" are really valuable and gratefully received. hopefully with a little guidance from anonymous fucktards like you i'll soon be able to make sarcastic comments just like a professional! Oh, I can hardly wait.

          Yes, I am being sarcastic.

          BOLLOCKS! It was going so well too...

      2. Mark .

        Re: Apple has peaked

        Whilst the missed estimates don't mean much, it is true they are declining. Apple's sales started small, and gradually rose to a peak around end of 2011 with the iphone 4S. Nokia had been number one for years, but they had now ditched the amazingly successful Symbian to the still small WP, which meant for the ill-defined "smartphone" category, Apple and Samsung were now neck and neck for number one. The media were hysterical over Apple's possible success (never mind that they never praised Nokia for being in that position for years...) And whilst Android was ahead of iphone, at ~50% share, with the demise of Symbian there was a chance that iphone could at least become a platfom with amost 50% share.

        Except, that was just a bump right after the new iphone release - in 2012, their sales have dropped dramatically (a drop 10 million in the last quarter alone). Samsung sales have rocketed, such that their Android phones alone now outsell Apple 2 to 1. Android's share nears 70%, with iphone falling to ~16%, and even WP is now increasing. There was always the possibility that iphone 5 might give them a huge boost again, but it doesn't seem it will change the long term pattern.

        And yes, 5 million in 3 days right after a major new generation isn't anything special. Samsung (and Nokia, previously) do a million or more a day all year round.

        I agree with the OP - it seems that their peak has passed. And that was a peak that was never number one in the phone market.

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: Apple has peaked

          "in 2012, their sales have dropped dramatically (a drop 10 million in the last quarter alone). Samsung sales have rocketed,"

          I think the 4S was a big mistake strategically. Don't wish to enrgage the fanbois, but the 4S wasn't a compelling upgrade if you already had a 4. Especially for the crowd that buys based on looks.

          By not making it a compelling upgrade in that cycle users looked at the alternatives, and it looks like a lot of them now have samsungs.

          Guess time will tell if the 5 is enough to win them back...

          1. jubtastic1

            Re: Apple has peaked

            "I think the 4S was a big mistake strategically. Don't wish to enrgage the fanbois, but the 4S wasn't a compelling upgrade if you already had a 4. Especially for the crowd that buys based on looks."

            Whilst it's true that a niche number of smartphone users upgrade to the newest model every year, the vast majority don't, they sit out their 2 year contracts and then have a look at the offerings, in this context I think Apple plays very well, each iteration is attractive to those coming out of contract whilst not being compelling for those who are on the last iteration, a stratagy somewhat helped by OS upgrades for the previous generations adding some features from the latest phone.

            Regarding the OT though, Apple will peak when they're forced to licence their OS's to third parties, which I'd guess will be about 5 years away if they wait for someone else to decide for them.

            1. Mark .

              Re: Apple has peaked

              Given that people have reasons to buy phones at different times, it seems rather risky to base a model assuming that everyone wants to upgrade at the same point once every two years...

              (It doesn't help that they can't even stick to that - it's been 2.5 years since the iphone 4... Also unfortunately, the iphone 5 is really the 4SS - still an incremental upgrade.)

              Why would they be forced to licence their OS to third parties?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Why would they be forced to licence their OS to third parties?

                He's dreaming that they're going to capture the majority of the smartphone market.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple has peaked

      Analyst get it wrong, yeah because that's never happened before...

      If it did not sell as many as the 4s then your comment may have some *small* justification for existing, as it is even you don't really believe it - not deep down, you know in your heart that it just as irrelevant as the analysts pre-launch predictions.

      I do feel sorry for you that you do not have something more interesting in life to focus on rather than you irrational hatred for a company that is doing well.

      1. g e
        Facepalm

        Re: Apple has peaked

        Because, if the professional guessers, whose job it is to be far more right than wrong day-to-day, were wrong using their normally-pretty-accurate methodologies, well, that would mean your iThing no longer has the cachet that made you buy it.

        Which is a bit like your house losing value after you bought it. Perhaps more like buying Levi jeans cos the advert was shiny and made you feel like you'd be dead cool wearing them only to find out the following week that everyone was now buying Diesel or Soviet. The perpetual peril of style over substance.

        The cachet of your status symbol may decrease as well as increase...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple has peaked

      "Yes, they make the most money from those who prefer style over substance."

      Sigh. Maybe iPhone users prefer style AND substance. The only "substance" my Android-using friends tout is the ability to replace their virtual keyboards with "Swype" and have animated wallpapers. Very impressive, if you don't have a job and work to do.

      1. Mark .

        Re: Apple has peaked

        Swype improves my typing speed significantly.

        And I get style too.

        Now your turn - what "substance" does it have, that no other platform does?

      2. Greg J Preece

        Re: Apple has peaked

        The only "substance" my Android-using friends tout is the ability to replace their virtual keyboards with "Swype" and have animated wallpapers. Very impressive, if you don't have a job and work to do.

        Funny you should say that. I made sure to get Swype onto my S3 at all costs because I have shit to do...

        But then when I'm doing actual worky stuff, the N900 comes out, because for getting said shit done, Maemo still stands tall as king. Let's see you rattle off complex Bash commands on your iPhone.

    5. Anonymous Hero

      Re: Apple has peaked

      Could be right there. Our 12 year old asked for the new Galaxy Note over the "New iPad" for her birthday. She's got pals who already have iPads but she thought they were a bit "meh" compared to Samsungs new offering. This 12 year old is like most others her age where being seen in the right clothes and with the right accessories is important, so what does that tell us about Apple's "coolness". Big corporate brands like to hook their customers young, if they're not catching the eye of the current crop of style concious 11-14 year olds then they're doing something wrong or their competitors are doing it better.

      Apple had their window when mobile phones needed that spark of innovation to kick the industry up the backside, but everyone else has now crawled in through the same window - despite Apple trying to close it with silly patent violation court cases. Also the kids who preferred playing with their lego and playmobile back when Apple were surprising the market with their new shineys probably weren't that concious of the cool factor and the fanboi thing was a bit over their heads.

      These new "customers" have a fantastic choice of non-Apple competitors (Windows Phone 8 as well) that just wasn't there a few years back. Apple's gear and the look of IOS is looking just a bit tired/dated now to these kids and Android 4 is a tasty looking OS, and the new Windows 8 tablet stuff is tempting my own wallet.

      I don't think Apple are going to crash and burn like they did under Sculley but they're going to have to compete and innovate more than they are right now to stay on top of the "cool". I think we'll see their popularity drop a bit then level out, they'll still produce high quality products but they also have to be careful. Steve may have gotten away with antenna-gate and if he was still alive today he'd probably have risen above the criticisms of the maps problem because he was "Steve" and everyone loved Steve. But today Apple has no Steve and they just have Tim, and Tim just isn't the same thing.

      1. TheOtherHobbes

        Re: Apple has peaked

        Night out with a group of I-work-in-theaytre-dahling luvvies last night.

        A couple of years ago it would have been 100% Apple territory, and plenty of 'Look at my new shiny, isn't it clever.'

        Last night it was 50% Samsungs. And no iPhone 5s.

        So yes - coolness gone now.

        I don't see how Cook is the man to get it back. He's an engineer not a marketing guy, and I don't think he understands the monster he's leading or his customers as well as Jobs did.

        I'd be happy to be surprised, because app development still pays well.

        But unless Maps is fixed soon and iOS 7 is made of planet-exploding awesome, I'm not optimistic.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple has peaked

          Jobs didn't understand his customers. He didn't care about them at all, and they don't care about him.

          Why was jobs so successful and had so many customers then?

          Jobs and his customers all suffer from a condition in which they lack any empathy for other people.

          1. Aaron Em
            Thumb Down

            Re: Apple has peaked

            0/10, implying every Apple owner is a sociopath is neither difficult nor effective. Troll harder.

            1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
              Happy

              Re: Apple has peaked

              Agreed. What's more these sociopaths are such a weedy lot. Nothing like the good old psychopaths they apparently replaced.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Apple has peaked

              :D Not denying that Jobs was a sociopath...very revealing!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple has peaked

          >He's an engineer not a marketing guy, and I don't think he understands the monster he's leading or his customers as well as Jobs did.

          He did a lowly engineering degree decades ago, then business all the way. Cook is the de facto reason why Apple no longer makes anything, Jobs wanted plant, Cook swung it the other way.

          For the last few years he's been right, but the tide has turned I think, either way it's a short term corporate mentality, and very far from the way an engineer thinks....

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple has peaked

        @Anonymous Hero

        A lucky 12 year old... most wouldn't get the choice.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple has peaked

        Precocious cow. I hope you got a a4 ruled jotter and a pack of pencils. Much more cost-effective.

      4. HandleOfGod

        Re: Apple has peaked

        I am well aware of the statistics of Android vs iOS but I still find it helpful to have conversations with people outside of The Register reader base. A couple of weeks ago I was visiting family and caught up with some old friends. There were six of us present and the breakdown was 4 x iPhone, 1 x HTC and 1 x strange Samsung sliding thing (don't know exactly what it was but it wasn't Android). The professions of those present were 1 IT bod, 1 office manager, 1 police officer, 1 TV production company owner and 2 teachers. The iOS owners (and these are just ordinary people, not geeks) spent a bit of time discussing how great Apple things were but otherwise the conversation didn't really cover phones - Android only got a passing mention when the production company owner said that a number of media related apps on Android seemed to lack things that were built into the iOS versions natively and what a pain it was for him to have to always bear that in mind with his work. Shortly after that the attempt to order pizzas using an iPad app was abandoned as it wouldn't work properly and a Windows netbook was dug out to ensure we didn't go hungry.

        More recently I went to a Spanish restaurant with a group of friends and the subject came up again. I don't know the breakdown of who owned what, but one person (a radiographer or similar) commented that they had been a huge Apple fan but went for the S3 as something different on their latest upgrade. I quoted the figures of nearly 70% Android vs 16% iOS and they were astounded - all of them. They all thought that Apple had by far the largest share of the market.

        Which just goes to show that whatever the reality of the stats, people's perception is that Apple is knocking the competition into a cocked hat....

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple has peaked

      FFS - It's just another smartphone - like loads of others out there. Yes Apple are arrogant and a pain in the butt, yes they charge slightly more (than other top end smartphones) - but it's just another bloody phone. It gets more scrutiny (iPhone/Apple) than most - which is the double edged sword of publicity/marketing - that's the price of being so cocky. And iOS6 maps are shite. But if you want to buy one - go ahead - if you want to buy something different - go ahead. Stop sweating about nothing.

    7. foo_bar_baz
      Thumb Down

      No-one is listening to obvious MS troll

      First paragraph from your lined article:

      "iPhone 5 sales topped five million over the first weekend, beating the previous record set by the iPhone 4S, but still falling short of estimates."

      So they beat sales records and that's a sign of "cracks starting to show". Many competitors would be happy to miss those kinds of inflated estimates.

    8. uhuznaa

      Re: Apple has peaked

      I don't want to praise Apple or the iPhone, but I'm sick of all this "style over substance" crying. Because style is important. People buy clothing, shoes, cars, furniture, houses, EVERYTHING by style and beauty instead of just by "substance". You're wearing rubber boots all day?

      Smart phones aren't just tools or office machinery or computers. Not for most people. They're much closer to clothing and shoes: They have to do their job, but they also have to look and feel good and make you feel good. Not understanding that doesn't make you clever.

      1. Eradicate all BB entrants

        @uhuznaa Re: Apple has peaked

        Actually you are very wrong. People buy all of the above because they are fashionable, not stylish.

        Fashion is fleeting, style is eternal.

      2. Greg J Preece

        Re: Apple has peaked

        I don't want to praise Apple or the iPhone, but I'm sick of all this "style over substance" crying. Because style is important. People buy clothing, shoes, cars, furniture, houses, EVERYTHING by style and beauty instead of just by "substance". You're wearing rubber boots all day?

        I guess some of us just aren't as interested in the "fashion" opinions of others as you are..

        Smart phones aren't just tools or office machinery or computers. Not for most people. They're much closer to clothing and shoes: They have to do their job, but they also have to look and feel good and make you feel good. Not understanding that doesn't make you clever.

        I long for the days before the definition of "smartphone" got changed to this shit. Clearly some people missed the "smart" part. Can we just start calling fashion accessories smugphones and be done with it, so the term smartphone can be reclaimed for phones with actual capability?

      3. Mark .

        Re: Apple has peaked

        I don't think anyone's saying that style isn't important - but it is a problem if a phone only has style, but no substance. Of course you might disagree that it doesn't have "substance" - but that's the disagreement. No one says that style isn't important.

        Other phones have style too. And in my book, style doesn't come in the form of an obvious tacky logo. Same reason I don't go for Adidas clothes either, though no doubt some people think it makes them look call. I mean really, if technology was like clothes, would you go around with a light up Apple logo on your back? (Though then again, I'm sure that some people would...)

  7. JDX Gold badge

    Pretty astonishing

    Not the apology, but that they didn't know this was coming. Unless the maps for California are great and they never looked anywhere else (would not be that big a surprise). I mean iOS6 has been out on beta...

    Surely they should have at least kept google maps one more revision.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pretty astonishing

      Obviously this was all carefully choreographed. Because of the betas, they knew this was coming. Days after the story broke, they were hiring Google engineers and making public apologies and promising to be better, and now the story is more or less over in the eyes of the public. Once again Apple has demonstrated they are far better than any other company at managing public perception.

    2. mhenriday
      Pint

      «Unless the maps for California are great

      and they never looked anywhere else (would not be that big a surprise).» They probably checked to see if they could find their way from headquarters at 1 Infinity Loop in Cupertino to the US District Court for the Northern District of California at 280 S 1st Street in San Jose. And lo and behold - it worked and they said «Apple Maps is awesome ; now we shan't get lost on that 16 km journey to Lucy Koh's court !»...

      Henri

  8. IT Hack

    Every time someone says the phrase "world class" a cpu dies.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Deal breaker

    Maps are a deal breaker for me. If they aren't working when my phone contract is up for renewal then Apple can get lost. And I can't be the only one.

    I therefore I suspect it might be in Googles interests for them to NOT release a stand alone app.

    1. Bernard

      Re: Deal breaker

      Depends on the background numbers.

      If Android is a core profit making product for Google, then you're absolutely right.

      If, as I suspect, it's really just another means to grab information and feed out ads then taking the high road and releasing a killer app for IOS 6 may have the effect of stopping Apple dead in its tracks, making further development seem absurd because people who've been bitten once won't want to switch from Google maps again and can be spun as Google putting people before self-interest (or some crap like that).

      In the background, their proven dominance in Maps would give them a platform for grabbing all kinds of user data from a rival platform and using it to feed the ads that are their overwhelming source of profit.

      My sense is that Android is never going to trump IOS as the luxury segment's phone of choice because this is Apple's core business and not Google's. If Google play snottily and refuse to release an app then they'll push some people to Android phones, but most Apple users will discover that Nokia/Bing/whatever aren't that bad an alternative and the furore will die off with Google's core business in a weaker position.

      Companies should be precious about their core business that makes them money, not about peripheral businesses that are really just ways to support the core business.

      1. Naughtyhorse

        Re: Deal breaker...luxury segment

        ???

        it's a fucking telephone not trans-Atlantic cruise ship.

        1. Andrew Harvey
          Thumb Up

          Re: Deal breaker...luxury segment

          Oh yes - good f*****g good point. What the hell does it all matter. Buy it or don't. You won't drown because of it.

      2. Mark .

        Re: Deal breaker

        "My sense is that Android is never going to trump IOS as the luxury segment's phone of choice because this is Apple's core business and not Google's."

        Who says IOS leads here now? A large number of Android sales are coming from the high end phones like the S3 an Note. I would be interesting to see what sales are in say, the market of phones over £200. (Although looking at "luxury phones" is a flawed stat anyway - it just rewards Apple for being expensive.)

        Also, if maps were more important, I'm wondering why they seem to have pulled the maps versions for other platforms - years ago I could run the app even on a low end "feature" phone, but the J2ME no longer seems to be available on their site. Similarly I can't find the Symbian version any more. It seems they're making some decisions to keep some things Android only now.

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: Deal breaker

          "years ago I could run the app even on a low end "feature" phone, but the J2ME no longer seems to be available on their site. Similarly I can't find the Symbian version any more. It seems they're making some decisions to keep some things Android only now."

          Or it could simply be that Symbian is dead as an operating system, and why use J2ME when maps runs just fine in pretty much any smartphone with a web browser?

          If they want to reach multiple platforms it makes more sense to put resources into making a mobile site compatible with pre-installed web browsers, and have apps for the 2 biggest platforms (which Google had pre-iOS6, and will have again whenever they get their app done).

          1. Mark .

            Re: Deal breaker

            "Or it could simply be that Symbian is dead as an operating system"

            It's mostly phased out, though there's still a massive userbase. If it was just Symbian maybe, but dropping out all other platforms suggest something more.

            "why use J2ME when maps runs just fine in pretty much any smartphone with a web browser?"

            Right so years ago I could run it on any dirt cheap Java smartphone, now it only runs on more expensive smartphones that run the right kind of OS (not pretty much any). Although fair enough, if the website works better with mobile web browers these days, there's less need for specific "apps".

            "and have apps for the 2 biggest platforms (which Google had pre-iOS6, and will have again whenever they get their app done)."

            They only had it for Apple because they paid for it, and there's no evidence they plan to cater for the minority of Apple users (and sorry, it's misleading put Apple on the same level as Android - Android is way ahead, and if they only want to cater for the biggest, they might as well just support Android and nothing else).

            Plus if it works with the web browser, why does Apple need a special app? Android does because you get more features - the sat nav. But why does Apple need an app for something every other platform can do in the web browser?

            I don't see evidence that these days, Google are so concerned about getting their maps on every phone - and with Android so dominant, they don't really need to, I guess.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. Bernard

          Re: Deal breaker

          I say Apple leads there now, and so do the stats. Android may have an overall bigger market share, but that's spread across lots of phones from lots of vendors each of whom make much less profit per unit than Apple (which is the prime indication of market power, and gives Apple lots of room to manouvre if Samsung continue to make headway as the leading alternative).

          I've never seen the attraction of spending so much on a phone myself, and my 4 year old HTC Hero works just fine, but ignoring the fact that Apple are the elephant in this market will render invalid any further analysis you undertake.

          My point here is simply that Android isn't Google's endgame here. Being the ubiquitous portal for (and gatherer of) information of all kinds and using that to consolidate their absurdly profitable ad machine is.

          An analogy to Google refusing to serve maps to IOS customers would be Oracle refusing to serve its software on anything except Sun gear. In the narrow context of boosting the hardware business it would have a small positive effect, but the wider consequence to its prime revenue generator would be disastrous.

          1. Mark .

            Re: Deal breaker

            "I say Apple leads there now, and so do the stats."

            Reference? You may be right, I'm just curious to see the breakdown in sales.

            "Android may have an overall bigger market share, but that's spread across lots of phones from lots of vendors"

            Being spread over lots of phones is irrelevant. As for manufacturers, Samsung alone sell more Android phones that Apple's entire phone sales. By about a factor of 2, in Q2 2012.

            As for profit:

            "which is the prime indication of market power"

            No it isn't. Yes, Apple do well in profit, but I don't care about that. The only people who should care are Apple shareholders. I'm not an Apple shareholder, so this isn't the prime indication for anything I care about.

            I don't know what an elephant is.

            I do agree there is a difference. Apple are out to make profit selling overpriced phones to a niche. Google want a platform on as many devices as possible. I agree entirely. (Plus I don't think it's just about information - they also get a 30% cut through Google Play, and it seems they do want to build on this to create a general sales portal for every smartphone - even if that wasn't their original intention, it's one that will create money for them.)

            Your Oracle analogy isn't valid, as Sun hardware is a minority. Here, Android is by far the dominant platform. Not catering for the minority of Apple users is no more relevant than not catering for Symbian, Blackberry, J2ME or anyone else (iphone being number 2 is very recent, only as of this year - and that's in quartery sales, not installed userbase - and they're way behind Android, making them a niche like anyone else).

            1. Bernard

              Re: Deal breaker

              As I said above, ignoring Apple's dominance makes any further analysis invalid.

              Statements like 'Android is by far the dominant platform' and 'catering for the minority of Apple users is no more relevant than...' prove my point that you're out of touch with the market.

              Your dislike for Apple will not make it go away. I'm not a big fan of closed systems either, but while the demographic with the most disposable income and the least interest in value (my opinion only) keep buying Apple en mass the advertisors will keep spending money targeting them. If Google really think that forcing Apple users to discover that there are okay alternatives to Google maps is a good idea long term then I think they'll be making a serious mistake.

              Because so many people here seem to confuse what they want to happen with what will happen, there's a good reason not to want Google to get out of IOS development too. It will force a standards war which will either lead to Android or IOS getting more dominant. Whichever one wins will have less reason to innovate thereafter. Dominance is always bad news for us.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Deal breaker

              "I don't know what an elephant is."

              It's a big animal, with four feet and a trunk. Lives in warm places.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Deal breaker

      Deal breaker - this is one of those situations where they are fine for 99.9% of people but 0.1% of people are very vocal and 100% of other phone owners jump on the band wagon.

      I have used the new maps - for ME they are BETTER - not popular perhaps but true. Maps are more up to date everywhere I have bothered to check (my house, my parents, many of my friends, my office and routes I have driven over the last week).

      If I found them lacking I would just go to maps.google.co.uk and make a desktop shortcut and use that - takes 10 seconds.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Deal breaker

      Google would be happy for Apple to keep paying out for them. In the long term they could be better - better Siri and other app integration - opened up to developers etc. They have been out for 1 week FFS.

  10. ZeroP
    FAIL

    Apple Maps are crowd sourced

    Use a competing map service til we fix it.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's nothing like the Antenna issue, the Antenna issue was pretty much unfixable as it was a design fault. The map issue is easy to fix, go to itunes, download a map app, put it where you had the default map app.

    Problem solved. Where as the stupid new size is a problem, so I'll stick with my duff antenna.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    if I were Larry Page

    1. Quickly knock out google maps app with an embedded chrome browser for displaying info about Towns, POI etc. Proper full-fat Chrome now, such that Apple would never allow it. In these chrome activities have a semi-hidden option to expose the URL bar so that a cunning user can use the gMaps to get to a fully working Chrome browser session.

    2. submit app to appstore - wait for rejection

    3. Leak app to the jailbroken community torrent sites

    4. Wait-for/Drum-up outcry from ios users. Put some PR on it with righteous 'woes and curses on that bad anti-competitive Apple ' spin - hopefully get the media hissing - why won't Apple allow gMaps app?

    5. Enjoy.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IE6

    Now you can see why corporations are/were clinging to IE6 like a sloth to a cold tree.

    Whatever Google Maps' shortcomings, it's a tried and tested solution that works reliably within established parameters. You know where you are with it. Can you find your way around town with it? Yes.

    3D mapping and other improvements may be a nice idea, but if it doesn't work reliably then only the nerds are going to stick with it.

    That's why corporations are happy to sit back for a few years and let the product mature before considering it.

    Apple rolling out something from scratch on the scale of international 3D mapping software was never going to go smoothly. I'm sure it'll be fantastic one day. Though by the time it's polished, I'm equally sure Google won't be far behind with its next generation of Google Maps and Street View.

    1. Jim McDonald
      Thumb Up

      Re: if I were Larry Page

      That is a plan as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University!

    2. Naughtyhorse
      Thumb Down

      Re: IE6

      Google won't be far behind???

      assuming that is that Google sit on their collective arses and do nothing in the mean time?

      cos yes i can see that happening!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: if I were Larry Page

      I'd release android for jailbroken iPhones which works well.

    4. Richard 12 Silver badge

      You seem to have forgotten that Google did it first

      Pop open Google Earth and take a look at central London.

      3D buildings in well-known cities were there for at least two years.

      Ok, they didn't put it on a Smartphone yet, but to be fair, I don't really want it there either, I use maps for getting around.

    5. Archibald Trumpetbeetle

      Re: IE6

      Yeah I can't wait for 3d mapping, it will be so useful to find locations when I'm flying in my hovercar.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apology not accepted.

    Go back and do it again.

  15. Steve 114
    WTF?

    Maps must be fun

    As an 'elderly, confused', I got an Android phone. Liked it a lot, rooted it same afternoon. But it seems the only way I can get the sainted 'Google' Maps' integrated is by getting some kind of Google ID, so that they can track me - no thanks! (Meanwhile some other mapping system downloads useful slabs all over Europe). And my various TomToms in several cars almost never mislead. But my son can't upgrade his I-Thing because 'the maps don't work'. Whatever is going wrong?

    1. csumpi
      Facepalm

      Re: Maps must be fun

      Well, since you are "elderly and confused", let me give you a hint here. It doesn't matter what mapping application you use, whoever wants to, can still track you. They don't need a google ID for it. Your internet connected device (phone, computer, tablet) sends enough information that "they" can connect the dots and know exactly who you are, what credit cards you use, what you buy, how much you pay in property taxes, your eating habits, your sexual orientation, voting record etc... All this information is available for sale and purchase.

      So, since "they" already have all this info, you might as well just install google maps. It's much better than anything else anyway. At least you get the benefits.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Maps must be fun

        Well now, being another 'elderly and confused' I reckon you're seriously overstating 'their' magical powers. Besides, with a little forethought you can ensure that they only track who you want them to think you are.

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Maps must be fun

      'elderly, confused', rooted it same afternoon. You're lying abou the "elderly, confused" bit arent' you?

      I can't even switch the fucking GPS on on my android phone without submitting "anonymous info" to google. And yes, that's with the wi-fi location disabled before any smartarses tell me I don't know what I'm doing. If that info was really anonymous it'd be of no value whatsoever to google (it's just a pair of coordinates).

      Google are a bunch of bastards when i comes to respecting peoples privacy. It's my phone, it's my GPS, why the fuck can't I turn it on without telling gooogle where I am?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maps must be fun

        " can't even switch the fucking GPS on on my android phone without submitting "anonymous info" "

        Yes you can, but if you want WIFI assisted GPS, they want a bit of info back... I.E. when your phone finds a hotspot, it tells google where it is, it works both ways...

        Try a non assisted GPS and it'll take ages to track a satellite, with assisted, tis pretty instant when you leave your house...

  16. MattW99

    Well I never.

    Makes a change from the usual "it's fine - you're just not hip enough to use it properly" Apple response.

    I won't be updating my iPad until google release a native app.

    1. Naughtyhorse

      well i doubt even apple would dare say 'if maps don't work you must be going to the wrong places'

      well not now that steve has gone they wont

      1. Ben Tasker Silver badge
        Joke

        Just don't go there.

        Not that big a deal

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Not that...

          big OF a deal. I think... :-)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not that...

            Not in English, no. The clunky vestigial "of", which ruins the flow of the sentence is a peculiarity of merkins.

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      re: I won't be updating my iPad until google release a native app.

      What will that give you that you don't get from installing the web app?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maps are a core function --- of a phone.

    Weird.

    But true. I don't carry a phone any longer, I carry a miniature computer. Oh, if I really need to, it makes phone calls too.

  18. tony

    Flyover

    Got to say I'm impressed with flyover, once they cover the rest of the world it'll be world class...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Flyover

      Meanwhile it's complete shite in comparison to what many people had a week or so ago. Apple can have a walled garden - as long as they play fair. Yeah right!

  19. Dropper
    FAIL

    Apple eh?

    Actually most people would think iPhones were really cool (even the maps app) if there weren't any other smartphones to compare them too.. Don't believe me? Well I remember how shite the original Mac was, didn't even support colour, and yet people thought they were great because they weren't aware that all those "games" computers were also more powerful and more capable systems. In the order of things marketing definitely trumps functionality and reliability - just ask Microsoft.

    1. Ian Johnston Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: Apple eh?

      And we all remember what happened with the Mac, don't we? Apple revolutionised the personal computer business with an astonishingly friendly interface, then sat on their laurels, gave up innovating, tried to sue the opposition into submission instead and finally sank into near-irrelevance.

      Give it five years and we'll be able to s/personal computer/smartphone

      1. Dropper

        Re: Apple eh?

        Not sure revolutionised is quite the right word. Marketed a black and white GUI interface cloned from a 1970s Xerox prototype as revolutionary maybe, but otherwise there were at least 3 other computer systems that were far superior. But your point is taken and yeah, it seems to be Apple's strategy that if it can't produce the best product, then the solution is to sue competitors out of the market so it has nothing to compete against.

    2. Mark .

      Re: Apple eh?

      Oh yes, it did annoy me that the minority of Mac users looked down at more advanced platforms as being merely "games machines".

      The joke is that now, Apple fanatics think their itoys are cool because they can post to Facebook and play games, and write off Windows PCs as being "boring business machines"!

  20. Eddy Ito Silver badge

    Crap map app

    Crap apology (mostly). Tim, a few points. First the second person is missing from your (dis)missive and the whole blame shifting sucks as this isn't on the coders who probably put in months of overtime to rush this out the door. You're the CEO so just take the hit yourself. Second, please leave the salesman at home if you're trying to say you overreached on the first go or you should have released a beta (not like Siri) earlier just say so. Third, I'm sure the number of devices matters but the people who are impacted should be a little more important but thanks for finally recognizing that your customers are people and you are listening. Forth, bitter pill, props for choking that one down, but... Lastly, you're slipping into salesman mode again and talking in wishy-washy superlatives instead of actually saying how you intend to fix it.

    As apologies go I give it 4.5 out of 10, I honestly think Steve Ballmer could have done better.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is Tim Cook sorry enough to...

    ...donate his $700 million annual salary to the Chinese slaves who produce the Iphone? I didn't think so.

    1. Toothpick
      Meh

      Re: Is Tim Cook sorry enough to...

      some of that can go to the 'Chinese slaves" who produce phones for other manufacturers.

  22. Ian Johnston Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    The iPhone 5 is such an enticing prospect, isn't it?

    All you have to do is spent five hundred quid on the phone and whatever it takes to replace all the docking peripherals you have ever bought and for that you get exactly the same software as an iPhone 4GS, a very slightly larger screen and - faint, gasp, shriek, throw knickers on stage - a aluminium back. Wow. That's got to be half a grand well spent in anyone's book.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Someone will be punished

    Apple will want to punish someone for their mistake; most likely it'll be Samsung.

  24. dssf

    I often of late railed against Apple due to the lawsuit, but...

    Lately, my Galaxy Tab 10.1 WiFi has seen google maps acting really dog slow, showing multiple overlay layer like presentation.

    If you are in Busan and looking for the Busan Maritime Museum, you will not find it on google mas, even though it opened in July and is fully operational. I was there at least 3 times. As of 10 minutes ago, the international cruise terminal is still there, nut the Museum is a plot of vacant land. Even the nearby maritime academy has missing buildings.

    One would imagine that all that tracking google does would would help google update genuinely public,operational, heavily-trafficked locations. Their algorithms should crawl official, open, public government web sites to corroborate the existence of and items around new sites.

    Apple is not the only one having mapping problems.

    Just, without searching, open google maps, pan over to South Korea, zoom in on the southeastern part at Busan, then further zoom in on Yeongdo Island and the International Cruise Terminal. Just southeast of that is visible an empty lot -- according to google maps. I do not use bing, and have not tried apple maps.

    1. dssf

      Re: I often of late railed against Apple due to the lawsuit, but...

      It looks like this:

      http://english.busan.go.kr/07community/02_01.jsp?nSelected=&command=view&sn=1702&page=0&nowBlock=0

      And, the nearby Busan Maritime University looks like:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Maritime_University

      And:

      http://english.hhu.ac.kr/english/01/07.jsp

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: the Museum is a plot of vacant land

      I bet the empty lot is in the right place though.

    3. ChrisC

      Re: I often of late railed against Apple due to the lawsuit, but...

      "I do not use bing"

      Just as well, because Busan barely exists at all on their maps...

      It's a measure of how far online mapping has come in the past decade or so, and how much a part of everyday life it's become for a lot of people, that we find ourselves complaining about what, in the grand scheme of things, are minor issues. I still remember the day, back in the late 90's, when someone at work discovered the Terraserver site and the entire office ground to a halt for an hour as we all ooh'ed and aah'ed over the (by todays standards) fairly low-res monochrome satellite imagery of our area. And it wasn't so very long ago that the idea of being able to sit at your desk and pull up high quality mapping or imagery of practically any point on the planet (unless your work ID happened to include the badge of a national intelligence agency) was little more than the wishful thinking of cartography enthusiasts everywhere.

  25. Nordrick Framelhammer
    FAIL

    Apple are starting to make Macro$loth look competent.

    Just sayin'

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple are starting to make Macro$loth look competent.

      Macro$loth - you must be like 12? How about CrApple next?

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Paper maps

    Try them some time.

    Easy.

    1. 20legend

      Re: Paper maps

      Paper maps, so very fucking convenient to use when you're actually driving - their traffic avoiding, speed camera warning, junction assisting, point of interest locating, gps co-ordinate providing capabilities are out of this world.....................

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Paper maps

        Yeah those paper maps do route calculation, spoken directions SO well. Caveman. I know forget electric lights let's go back to candles.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Paper maps

      Surprised you can even show your head with a suggestion like that - for in-car and most normal use ridiculous these days. Up a mountain as a backup yes paper maps.

    3. cantankerousblogger

      Re: Paper maps

      You can't be married. The rows with my spouse, in the UK and particularly in cities abroad, when driving have almost disappeared since the road atlases disappeared and I can no longer blame her for making me drive the wrong way down a one way street in Brussels, taking the wrong autobahn, etc. I can't believe others don't have the similar experiences. GPS Sat Nav has saved marriages, mine included.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Paper maps

        Paper maps - oh really. How about the cost for a start - I'm not comparing a £5-6 UK atlas - but how much do you think it would cost for A-Z quality for the whole of the UK or even Europe or actually most of the world. Oh that's right the digital maps are basically free whereas maps (at the same level of detail) would probably cost more than an iPhone alone.

        I'd actually like to see Apple allow 'offline' mapping - there are apps for it but perhaps Google would not allow it normally.

  27. wobbly1

    It's like Microsoft, post Gates

    It happened to Armstorng-Vicars too. Once the charismatic founder is no longer in sole charge and the committees take over.

    1. Colin Wilson 2

      Re: It's like Microsoft, post Gates

      > It happened to Armstorng-Vicars too.

      What? The Army Surplice people?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I never found Google Maps that good - pretty slow (compared to Apple Maps) - the satellite imagery was 4+ years old (the Apple Maps images seem 1 year or less). I live the 3D views - even the 'faked' 3D is better than not.

    1. Bugs R Us

      Re: Fake 3D

      Fake 3D goes well with mis-positioned places. Heck, why even bother putting place names on Apple Maps or even use GPS. How about randomizing the route calculations altogether? That'd be just as useful.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fake 3D

        I'm not denying there are problems / errors but you act like it's set in stone and apple will not fix them. Chances are they will fix them and why not be optimistic and consider that it has given them a good kick up the ar$e and we will end up with a fixed and improved product.

        Google Maps have been resting on their laurels - it was not bad but not great either - mapping was getting old - bit of competition may help improve both.

        1. Hellcat
          FAIL

          Re: Fake 3D

          "mapping was getting old"

          So Apple decided to shake things up a bit. Move a couple of towns, rename some others, or simply remove some from time and space.

          If we use your argument that it was getting old and needed changing - isn't it time iOS got re-designed? It looks nearly the same as when it first came out.

          Personally, I'd take function over form. An 'old' looking app with correct (or mostly correct) data is useful. A 'shiny' looking app with data that cannot be trusted is worthless as a map. I credit most Apple customers with the inteligence to understand the difference and to demand improvement.

  29. Alan Denman

    No piper at the gates?

    First it was all A T & T 's fault.

    The users then held it all wrong.

    Apple then found an old episode of Lost in space.

    How long is that route map to Sucker Gate?

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    guess I am alone then...

    in liking the new map app. granted I don't use satellite imagery, can't see the point in it, the rest of the map app i.e. giving directions, showing the streets etc works just fine...In the 3 months I've been using it (including betas) I've been using it in the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain (including Balearics) and it was absolutely fine. I preferred it to the Nagivon and Copilot apps I have as well.

  31. Zot
    WTF?

    The map data they were given must be much better than that displayed in Maps

    That's what I don't understand. If Apple got their data from navigation companies, then why is it so wrong?

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