back to article Freeview kit to require retune tomorrow

Freeview viewers, prepare to retune your equipment. The terrestrial digital TV platform will require yet another channel check tomorrow to implement changes made to its electronic programme guide. TVs with digital tuners and set-top boxes not set to automatically spot the change and to retune accordingly, will require manual …

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  1. MrWibble

    Still a mess. Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

    1. VinceH Silver badge
      Facepalm

      'Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?'

      Tell me this isn't entertaining?

  2. geekclick

    RE: Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

    You have met the fairer sex right?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: RE: Why is shopping classed as "general entertainment"?

      Fairer sex was also in the 95ish range (Babestation) - I'm guessing that's being moved out of the general entertainment area

      (not that I've ever watched it. I got home drunk and went channel surfing. Wouldn't pay for it. Why would you when you've got the Internet. That's my story and I'm sticking to it)

      1. Tel Starr
        Paris Hilton

        'Fairer sex was also in the 95ish range'

        I prefer them quite a bit younger

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Babestation

        Babestation is a total misnomer.

        I watched it once and didn't see a single babe. Didn't see any trains, either.

  3. djack
    Thumb Down

    Again and again and again

    Being in the north-east, I had to retune last week for the start of the analogue shut-down, this week for the EPG reshuffle and next week for the completion of the analogue shut-down! We should make it a weekly Wednesday we-tune! (sorry)

    There's hundreds of adverts and notices around saying to retune on the 12th and 26th, it wouldn't have been hard to add the 19th to the posters would it?

    Fun fun fun!

    1. Annihilator
      Meh

      Re: Again and again and again

      I did see the article and think "oh, it's Wednesday, must be re-tune time..."

      1. Ragarath Silver badge

        Re: Again and again and again

        If you have to retune again on the 26th then why did they not leave the EPG change until then? It is only 8 days away surely this would have made more sense and been better for tjhe users?

        Is there some technical reason why it could not have been done?

        1. Ragarath Silver badge

          Re: Again and again and again

          Okay 8 days from now, 7 from the retune. Must concentrate more.

        2. djack

          Re: Again and again and again @Ragarath

          Is there some technical reason why it could not have been done?

          I can only hope so but I can't think what it could be - unless lack of common sense is a technical reason?

          1. djack

            Re: Again and again and again @Ragarath

            Well, it's now the 20th here. No retune notices either. Also, Dave is still on 19.

            Looks like they've not done the EPG change here this week, probably next week. I wonder if they could have made the process any more confusing or inconsistent.

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

  5. Andy 97
    FAIL

    Now I'll need to spend ages *again* deleting all the shite off the EPG.

    Sometimes I really miss the simplicity of four channels.

    *Offers Spangles around*

    1. Vulch
      Coat

      Four?

      When I were a lad we only had to cope with two which was confusing enough. Mind, we had to point the aerial in different directions for each of them which encouraged picking one of them and staying with it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Four?

        We used to Drrreeeeaaammm of having 2 channels.

        We used to sit in a darkened room with a big cardboard box in't corner wi' an 'ole in it. And when our dad got home he would put on a mangy old glove wi' faces drawn on't fingers, stick it through 'ole and jiggle his fingers to re-anct forsyt' saga - AND he used to have to do adverts about InjuryClaims and QuickLoans himself too.

        If we asked him to change channel he would say 'what f***ing channel would that be then - smartarse?" and give us some 'forsyt justice' by punching us in the face wearing the puppet glove.

        But you tell that to the kids of today ......

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Four?

          Big cardboard box?

          Luxury!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Four?

        "When I were a lad we only had to cope with two which was confusing enough"

        yes, but one was the BBC and we didn't watch the other as it contained stuff for common people!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thanks for the Sweetie

      can I have a ride in your motor?

      1. andy gibson

        Re: Can I have a ride in your motor

        Charlie says that you shouldn't go off with someone you don't know. <Cue image of cat balancing a fish reward on his nose>

    3. bluest.one

      There are definitely some advantages in living in a Freeview lite area!

      Plus, get yourself freesat and the EPG is already pretty sensible.

  6. Why Not?
    Boffin

    'There was strong support for this aspect of DMOL‟s proposals, with almost all respondents,

    including all the providers of shopping channels, agreeing that DMOL should not create a

    dedicated shopping genre as a result of this review. A variety of reasons were cited for this

    view.

    The providers of shopping channels considered that the DMOL research suggests that there

    is no consumer demand for the genre. They also cited the economic damage to their

    businesses, from reduced viewing levels and reduced revenue, which would result from the

    creation of a shopping genre. One shopping channel provider pointed out the importance of

    scrolling behaviour and suggested that viewers tend not to scroll beyond LCNs 40 to 50, so

    any move to a higher LCN would be very damaging to their business. QVC estimated that a

    35% to 40% turnover loss would result from creation of a dedicated genre and said that they

    would also incur marketing costs to publicise the new LCN numbers. A shopping channel

    provider provided evidence of the revenue loss to one of their channels when it changed

    LCN numbers and suggested that this revenue loss was not temporary but permanent. '

    Well I thought the same but it appears they would see 40% loss of sales if we didn't trip over the shopping channels (their value is so transitory with their clients ) , though I suspect the QVC's of this world contribute a fair sum towards freeview costs.

    Lets hope so...., kryters..... must ..... talk ..in.. sync!

    gotta use the techie icon!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re: Why Not

      "The providers of shopping channels considered that the DMOL research suggests that there

      is no consumer demand for the genre."

      So, even the shopping channels conclude there is no need for self existence?

      I think therefore I cease.....

      1. Lee Dowling Silver badge

        Re: re: Why Not

        Really? Has *anyone* ever watched the shopping channels (for anything other than entertainment, at least) since we first got them on Sky Analogue all those years ago when I was still a kid?

        Overpriced tat. Complicated buying structures. Expensive postage and phone lines. Over-eager American salesmen demonstrating how wonderful a ceramic frying pan "holds heat for longer" without any mention that it takes longer to warm up (ya cannae beat the laws of physics, Jim) with THE most false product appraisals and "smiles" ever in the history of the planet.

        I watch them to play the "contradiction" game - where you and a friend sit and watch them (presumably when NOTHING else is on) and point out the scientific flaws and what they actually mean when they say "It's 50% better" or whatever and point out the holes in their sales pitches.

        Apart from that, who on Earth would watch them? It's like a Betterware catalogue on the TV, but not quite so classy.

        1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: re: Why Not

          > who on Earth would watch them?

          Sadly it's like email spam for Viagra. Believe it or not, they do get enough responses to make a profit and keep going, and in the case of Freeview that contributes towards the funding of the system.

          1. Tom 7 Silver badge

            Re: re: Why Not

            I thought freeview was funded by sky adverts "Watch this fantastic new programme on..."

            Mine you even the beeb is advertising some Sky programs.

          2. Vic

            Re: re: Why Not

            > they do get enough responses to make a profit and keep going

            Keep going?

            Channels like QVC are the big earners...

            Vic.

        2. bluest.one

          Re: re: Why Not

          You get them on freesat - in their own genre - but along with the god-bothering channels - they get deleted if ever there's a need to retune.

          I suppose someone must use them - they're clearly viable as commercial enterprises.

        3. Vic

          Re: re: Why Not

          > who on Earth would watch them?

          STB development engineers.

          The shopping channels are transmitted in the clear, with plenty of power, plenty of bandwidth, ES transmitted such that A/V sync is barely needed, ...

          In short, the shopping channels are the first thing you watch when bringing up a new decoder. And you'll tend to keep watching them for a few weeks as you get the rest of the stuff working. And before you know it, various members of the team are getting their credit cards out :-(

          Vic.

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Perhaps...

      ...they should put ALL the adverts onto the shopping channel, then put them onto channel 9999, which is only available in the cellar with no lighting, in a locked filing cabinet inside a disused lavatory behind a sign saying 'Beware of the leopard'.

      I mean, who would have suspected that people don't actually want to watch channels composed entirely of advertising? If I wanted to be lied to, I'd write to my MP.

  7. David Biggins
    WTF?

    HD Channels moving or not moving?

    Confusingly contradicting "The Register" this site says the HD channels won't be moving as originally planned. If shit is the case then I'm not inclined to retune and have the hassle of deleting all the crud off my EPG and reprogramming all the series links.

    http://www.a516digital.com/2012/09/freeview-epg-reshuffle-q.html

    1. David Biggins
      Facepalm

      Re: HD Channels moving or not moving?

      I meant of course "if this is the case" - oops!

      1. Elmer Phud
        Unhappy

        Re: HD Channels moving or not moving?

        You were right first time - plenty more shit to go through and remove from EPG - AGAIN!

  8. Test Man

    What annoys me with all these retune stuff is that it means that I have to make note of all my series linked stuff and reenter them in again. It's a long list. Why can't it be like Sky?

    1. Bakunin

      Sounds like that mist be an issue with your hardware more than with Freeview.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I don't have to do this with MythTV, it retunes and everything that was set to record carries on as before. Sounds like your hardware remembers stuff against the channel number instead of its callsign, which is silly since the channels can change.

      1. Test Man

        It's a DigitalStream box.

        Someone on the AVForums reckoned it should only require an Update Scan (so retaining the schedule) as the "LCN" (or some acronym like that) is the only thing that has changed, not the muxes or frequencies, etc.

        God knows. I just know that on one of the previous major changes, it wiped the schedule.

  9. Richard Jones 1
    Unhappy

    Shopping Channels The Only Comedy These Days?

    The great digital disaster has been a royal pain in the fingers if not the behind, perhaps that is why I now have trigger finger and am waiting for the next injection?

    With all the other crap on at the moment does now one else find the only comedy these days is to turn off the sound and watch the prats on the shopping channels miming how much crap they are trying to shift?

    Whether I shall bother to re-tune is as yet an open issue.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If I get rid of my digital Freeview box, leaving me with a plasma screen that has no tuner (either digital or analogue), can I cancel my TV license? It's got to the point where the only time I turn on the telly is to use it as a screen for the home brewed juke box or to play games on my PS3, leaving me to wonder what I pay the TV license fee for.

    1. AdamW

      Yes you can, you only need a TV licence to watch LIVE content (no matter which device this comes from)

    2. Andy 115

      No need to lose the tuner....

      You are free to get rid of the license at ANY time so long as you do not watch or record TV broadcasts (using any device) whilst they are being broadcast....

      You are free to keep the freeview to listen to the radio if you were so inclined.

      Unfortunately, TVL will not spell this information out clearly an unambiguously and will try and convince you that you must somehow PROVE to them that you no longer need a license (even resorting to faux legal threats of court summons and "investigations being opened"...

      Reality is a bitch (for them) -The onus is on THEM to prove you ARE breaking the law, NOT for YOU to prove that your AREN'T breaking the law!

      1. AdamW

        Re: No need to lose the tuner....

        I just wrote a letter to TVL telling them why I don't need a licence, not heard from them since. Haven't had a licence for over 3 years now

  11. JeeBee
    FAIL

    Get rid of the +1 channels please

    For a broadcast medium with a limited bandwidth, why are there still multiple +1 channels, including Channel 4 +1, Channel 5 +1, E4 +1, ITV1 +1, and ITV2 +1. I've give Dave Ja Vu a break because it's only 2am to 4am.

    I guess they're lower bitrates than the non +1 channels, but even so we could have a couple more music channels (the Freeview selection being extremely limited and pop-oriented (not that much music is shown these days, so let's call them "teen channels" I guess)).

    Maybe a single "ITV Highlights / Catch-up" channel, with the best stuff from all the ITV channels. Same for the BBC actually, and maybe C4 could have one for all of its channels. But not +1...

    1. teebie

      Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

      Because often two programmes you want to watch are on at the same time on different channels?

      Why am I explaining this?

      1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

        It's so we can now update Springsteen's song and have 114 channels and nothing on.

        Not that it's a cheap and easy way to fill up the bandwidth rather than actually make/buy some actual new programmes of course.

      2. JeeBee

        Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

        Yeah, so I watch a 90 minute film, and still miss the show that started on the other channel.

        +1 channels are a ridiculous waste of valuable bandwidth. Get a dual-tuner Freeview recorder, or use a catchup service like iPlayer, 4od, ITV Player, etc.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

          A waste of valuable bandwidth? Not as much as iplayer etc are to us that live in t'cuntry.

          If your worried about bandwidth see earlier comments on shopping channels..

    2. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

      I had to buy a new freeview box as my old one was fritzed. This new one has a brilliant HD/SD setting which automagically tracks programs onto an HD alternative channel. Brilliant! I was watching a program on BBC Four, and the box flipped over to BBC HD, then back again when it had finished. At least having 101 for BBC1HD and 103 for ITV1HD etc will make life easier on the non-magic box in the other room.

      Mind you, I saw something I've never seen before last night on a +1 channel. It said "This program cannot be shown on a +1 channel for legal reasons." Hmm...

      1. Severen

        Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

        I think this is to do with broadcasting rights.

        Channels buy the right to broadcast a movie, for example, once. To show it on the +1 channel counts as second broadcast instance and, therefore, they would be required to pay a second fee to show it on that channel.

        I reckon this will settle once the contracts etc. have been updated to include the +1 channels. The contracts are agreed months/years in advance (as is the way with big businesses and their legal depts.) and these were likely drawn up before the +1 channels became properly established and, therefore, the legality of showing the program twice is a grey area, leading to broadcasters not wanting to take the chance on being charged twice by the owners of the rights to the movie.

        I'm guessing here so, if anyone knows for sure, I'd be keen to hear what the acutal facts are.

        1. bluest.one

          Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

          Never seen a movie denied +1 broadcasting rights, its always the gambling shows with live results.

          1. Vic

            Re: Get rid of the +1 channels please

            > Never seen a movie denied +1 broadcasting rights

            Interestingly, the adverts betwwen movie segments often cannot be rebroadcast on the +1 channels "for legal reasons".

            Vic.

  12. alain williams Silver badge

    I still haven't retuned after the last time

    that they changed things. But the Dr Who season had finished, I have been watching the new series on iplayer, so still have no motivation to switch the TV back on.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    shopping and god

    I care that people are not inclinded to count above 40ish cos they have become so lazy. Put all the valuable shopping channels on 1-10. I can exclude them easier that way. all the hopeless shut ins that want to see whats worth buying this week can indulge without having to do complex calculations/formulas etc.

    Note a few god bothering channels creeping in there as well. flipping eck

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    CV says flexible individual

    Brilliant how people claim to embrace and thrive on change in their busy important tech jobs but go all luddite when someone asks them to retune the telly .LOL

    1. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Re: CV says flexible individual

      Nobody asks you to shift all your IP addresses around just because the new numbering scheme is nicer.

      If they did, they'd get the same reaction, even though it's just a "retune" of the DHCP leases and a reprogramming of your lists, favourites, shortcuts, intra-PC links, etc.

      Renumbering is a STUPID idea. Who cares what number it is? I need to be able to assign MY numbers to a channel that NEVER change and always follow whatever real channel it ends up on. When channels move, I shouldn't even NOTICE, let alone have to mentally change all the numbers I've remembered (because typing in a three-digit number is INFINITELY faster than messing about with Favourites, Channel Up / Down, or the EPG.

      Let me define my OWN number set, where I can throw all the shopping, music, movie and adult junk at the end and just have all my favourite channels on 1-100 and sod the rest. And then when you "retune", my box should pick up what's happened and NEVER CHANGE A SINGLE NUMBER that I've assigned and still let me end up on the same channel.

      I have the same bug-bear with phone numbers, having lived through 01 -> 071 / 081 -> 0171 / 0181 -> 020 7 / 020 8 -> god knows what. The whole POINT of the numbers if quick reference to me and so that I don't have to type in the frequency, multiplex, etc. of a channel. If they shuffle every six months, they are completely pointless.

      Of course, from FreeView's point of view it's like Tesco's shuffling their layout every year or so. Maybe you'll stumble across a new product you like while you're whinging about how difficult it is to find everything again.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "These will be carried at 8 (England and Northern Ireland) and 45 (Wales and Scotland)"

    Why not unify them across the whole UK.

    I understand that Scotland and Wales have something else on at 8, so why not put them all down to 45?

    1. Test Man
      Stop

      Re: "These will be carried at 8 (England and Northern Ireland) and 45 (Wales and Scotland)"

      Because less people will watch it at that number. In Wales and Scotland, they have other, more important-to-them channels at 8.

  16. The last doughnut

    STNG

    On PickTV at the moment. Social life has been banished to the neutral zone.

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