back to article The world's first Windows Phone 8 hands on – what's it like?

It was harder than usual, but not impossible, to get my hands on Nokia's two new Windows 8 phones today. Word has already gone around Twitter that press and analysts were forbidden from handling the devices. This is not true – and on a scale of difficulty it hardly rated alongside reporting from outside Baghdad's Green Zone. So …

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  1. Shagbag

    I had a Lumia 800

    Great design. Like Nokia is famous for. I loved it. The problem was the OS. If Nokia came out with a Lumia running Android I'd be first in the queue. As it is, with WinPho, you won't even find me in the queue.

  2. CaptainBlue
    Meh

    Phone?

    But would it actually fit on your pocket? How does it compare to a Jesusphone?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    With so much battery capacity it's no wonder it is heavy.

    Weight = quality in many markets (except bicycles, where people lust after super light parts).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      BBC NEWS

      Nokia share price dropped 2% at the release of this phone.

      Hmmmmm.

      1. n4blue

        Re: BBC NEWS

        ...and down 13% at the close. I expect this is because there was no detail of pricing or availability. Not only that, but it looks like neither the phones or the OS are anywhere near as ready as they'd like them to be - I doubt if they'll be in the shops before the end of October.

        Since the iPhone 5 will be announced next week,and will probably be available almost immediately, that's a big problem. It may not have everything that Nokia has added to the Lumia, but doubtless it will have plenty of new 'magic' to get people excited.

        Getting the Lumia announced before the iPhone was probably the right thing to do, but every week that goes by without it being available will just mean more lost opportunity and more sales of the S III and iPhone.

        1. Mark .

          Re: BBC NEWS

          But you could say that of all phones - why should Nokia align their releases with Apple's?

          The Iphone 4S is almost a year old - every week that goes by is lost sales to Samsung, HTC and Nokia (and the disasterously sliding sales over the last few months prove it - a drop of 10 million in the last quarter alone!).

          Meanwhile, there won't be an update to the Galaxy S3 until mid next year.

          All companies tend to do yearly upgrade cycles (though some like Samsung stagger releases of their less mainstream models throughout the year). The original Lumia release was at the end of last year, with other models following early this year, so this release looks set to follow that, one year on. What's your source for the release date anyway? The announcement said Q4 in some markets, which could still meet the WP8 launch.

          As for share price, who cares. The Daily Fail scaremongered with that in its headlines too - bit sad for the BBC to stoop to that kind of reporting, though given their Apple obsession, it doesn't surprise me.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            FAIL

            Re: BBC NEWS

            Well, the thing is, why would anyone buy a Nokia Lumia now? It wasn't bad enough that all current Lumia's wont't get updated to the new version of WinPho, no, now you'd be faced with buying a doubly-obsolete product. For the next two to three months, no one in their right mind is even going to consider buying a Nokia smartphone. Even if they sell ten million of the 920 and 820 in the final quarter (a very tall order), it still won't make up for all the sales lost due to this premature announcement.

            Nokia has made a huge mistake by displaying a phone this fas in advance of the actual purchase date. Also, how many companies would be foolish enough to show off a phone whose OS wasn't even ready? I get that they're trying to get the jump on the onslaught of WinPho 8 devices (ahem) coming next month, but the message they're sending right now is: "Here's our new phone, it's big and heavy and yellow, the OS is just for demonstration purposes, and no you can't have one". That may have worked for Eric Cartman, but I doubt it'll work for Elop.

            1. h4rm0ny

              Re: BBC NEWS

              WP7 isn't being completely dropped. Nokia are even bringing out a new WP7 device in parallel with the WP8 ones. You can code for both WP7 and WP8 at the same time. I agree many will hold off from buying a WP7 device in favour of wating a couple more months, but anyone who buys a WP7 device is still going to get something that works well as a phone with a lot of modern features and software being released for it for a long time to come.

              1. Not That Andrew

                Re: BBC NEWS

                This may be an unpopular opinion but it's true. Most people buy phones, even smart phones on price, not features. These are the people that are still buying phones running Android 2.2.

              2. Jess

                Re: BBC NEWS

                > WP7 isn't being completely dropped. Nokia are even bringing out a new WP7 device in parallel with the WP8 ones.

                But the same appears to be true of Symbian, and there's lots of apps from the past years, and you aren't at the mercy of the app store plug being pulled, you can load what you like.

                > You can code for both WP7 and WP8 at the same time.

                But that's true of many different systems. I have a BlackBerry App that looks identical to the Symbian app.

                The problem I see is that people kept going on about a third significant ecosystem for smartphones, when there were already at least 4.

                So the fix is to try to kill number 3 and replace it with a new ecosystem and then a bit later replace that one with yet another new ecosystem. So instead of one significant ecosystem, you now have two insignificant ones and a 3rd new one on the way from the same manufacturer (Who still have a significant feature phone ecosystem, and a couple more insignificant ecosystems)

                Definitely reminds me of Sega pulling the plug on the Saturn and then wondering why its replacement wasn't a huge success (despite being pretty good).

          2. Anonymous Coward
            FAIL

            @Mark .

            "As for share price, who cares. The Daily Fail scaremongered with that in its headlines too - bit sad for the BBC to stoop to that kind of reporting, though given their Apple obsession, it doesn't surprise me."

            At this point, having read the 199 comments to date, the only people mentioning Apple are those complaining about them. These individuals, like Mark, will rant and rave about how the press have a bias towards the fruity company and Mark has gone as far to accuse the Reg of essentially being Apple shills! So I ask you, who exactly has the Apple obsession, Mark . ?

        2. Giles Jones Gold badge

          Re: BBC NEWS

          I doubt the iPhone 5 will be anything to get excited about.

          What more can they add? better camera, screen, CPU, battery life. Evolution not revolution has been the case for a few years now.

          The software is where the big changes can happen and iOS6 doesn't do anything that remarkable that iOS5 couldn't do. If anything the big changes are more about divorcing Google.

      2. MyronC
        Happy

        Re: BBC NEWS

        I like to think it was in response to Andrew posting this article ;)

      3. Mike Judge
        Stop

        Re: BBC NEWS

        18% actually. Investors realise too little too late

      4. h4rm0ny

        Re: BBC NEWS

        I've given up using the stock market as a good way to determine value of a company. Half the time people are manipulating it, the other half people are deliberately shorting it. Look at the way Facebook share price rises just before another slide begins where you can see that some invisible hand (bad joke) has pumped it up so that smaller fish will buy in and the bigger fish can divest themselves of toxic shares at less of a loss. There are big players in the markets and whenever they're confident that a stock is going to start going one way, it's in their interests to begin that process with a slight shift in the other direction so they can get in at a better price point (whether lower, or higher if short selling). It's a bit like someone counter-turning on a motorbike.

        Basically, be wary of drawing any conclusions from the stock market unless it's your field of expertise. My area of expertise is technology so I look at that to determine value, and these look like solid products. I think they will sell well.

        1. RyokuMas Silver badge
          Flame

          Re: BBC NEWS

          Yeah, let's not forget that it's these speculators and stock dabblers trading in virtual currencies that have helped put us in our current economic climate. Trusting them is almost as bad as trusting a politician - they'll say anything if they think it will make them a quick buck, and sod whoever's toes they might tread on doing it.

      5. Peddler

        Re: BBC NEWS

        Buy on rumour; sell on news.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      "Is it heavy?"

      "Yes"

      "Then it's expensive. Put it down."

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: "Is it heavy?"

        That's the first rule of optics.

        How to test if this is a high quality lens - pick it up!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I had a Lumia 800

      I fail to understand how people can dismiss a product, not only before it has been released, but before all information about it is available.

    4. toadwarrior

      Re: I had a Lumia 800

      They won't put android on it because android is a budget OS for budget phones.

      These phones aren't meant to appeal to the homeless and football fans so even though windows is risky it at least won't appear to consumers as if they put a tesco value OS on the hardware.

    5. h4rm0ny

      Re: I had a Lumia 800

      Complete opposite for me. I bought the Lumia 710 because of the OS which I liked a lot. I really didn't care much about camera quality or memory so the cheaper one was great for me. I found the OS very responsive and it did everything I cared about. So much so I wasn't planning to upgrade to a WP8 device, though the cheaper one of these new phones looks useful.

    6. JDX Gold badge

      Re: I had a Lumia 800

      It's great how you don't let things like not knowing what WP8 is like get in the way of such a confident decision. Who needs facts, pick a decision and stick to it no matter once!

    7. N13L5

      Nokia's lumia phones somehow don't look premium.. just look like cheaply made featureless plastic slabs.

      I don't get Nokia these days..

      As for Microsoft... I'm perfectly happy that they can't hack it to build a new monopoly...

      I love seeing them bleed large amounts of cash on a ~2% market share, when they were unwilling to spend anything for almost a decade to fix widely known issues in Windows Mobile, when they had 36% market share...

      Good for them, a just punishment for hanging customers out to dry over and over...

      Remember buying Microshuft DRM music? A few years later, they turned off their DRM servers, everybody's purchased music was gone...

      Go die in a fire, Microsoft? it'll be fun!

      And take Elop with you, before he finishes off whats left of Nokia.

      1. El Andy
        Trollface

        Remember buying Microshuft DRM music? A few years later, they turned off their DRM servers, everybody's purchased music was gone...

        1) It was rented, never bought.

        2) If you wanted you could (and still can) switch over to Zune Music Store (soon to be Xbox Music) and continue renting music

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Oh and Samsung's flimsy plastic creaky Galaxy phones are super solid?

        Have you even picked up a Lumia? they're not iPhone build but they're better than HTC and Samsung.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Have you even picked up a Galaxy SIII? They're not made of plastic.

          1. Toothpick
            FAIL

            Have you even picked up a Galaxy SIII? They're not made of plastic.

            Yes they are - Polycarbonate. A "nicer' plastic, but plastic just the same

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "Polycarbonate is a ceramic"

                No it isn't, it's a thermoplastic polymer

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              "Yes they are - Polycarbonate. A "nicer' plastic, but plastic just the same"

              They make riot shields out of transparent polycarbonate. Trying to conflate it in people's minds with cheap, commonly used plastics such as PETE and PVC is disingenuous as polycarbonate is several hundred times stronger.

              1. Turtle_Fan

                Well, the first comment still stands. PC and PC-ABS and even glass fibre reinforced plastic can be very hard or scratch-proof or have many other discreet characteristics depending on the application. Hell, there's poly-amid plastics that reside inside IC engines used a timing chain runners withstanding both heat and friction.

                This however, does not change the fundamental, plastic is plastic is plastic. Is it better than glass or ceramics? Could well be; depending on the application.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "Trying to conflate it in people's minds with cheap, commonly used plastics such as PETE and PVC is disingenuous as polycarbonate is several hundred times stronger."

                3.5 to 4.5 times actually, but hey, who counting?

        2. Piro

          Uh...

          My Desire HD is basically an ingot of aluminium.

      3. Dave 15

        turned off DRM servers

        Thats one damned good reason to stick to proper books and proper music....

        All this drm protected online crud is just a rip off and will leave you without money or goods very shortly. I don't even trust the kindles and similar.

    8. The BigYin

      Re: I had a Lumia 800

      I'm going to disagree. Win8 looks like it has a simply awesome UI for a phone/tablet. Better than what Android or iOS currently offer. Obviously Windows comes with baggage that may or may nor float your boat and it's going to be a bit applications light just now, but for ease of use on a touch device I think it's going to be hard to beat.

      I'm not going to buy one (I don't want Windows, thank you) but we should not be afraid to acknowledge good design when we see it. We can now expect a response from the Android vendors and the UIs there will improve. Awesome.

      1. Philip Lewis
        Trollface

        Re: I had a Lumia 800

        So, when Samsung make there own interface to their proprietary BADAss OS which emulates WP8, can we expect to see Microsoft suing them?

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      To steal another's phrase,

      "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it."

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Phone?

      Anyone who used to have to carry around a Nokia Communicator for work purposes could easily fit Ronnie Corbett in their pocket without missing their stride.

      1. Dave 15

        Re: Phone?

        Used to have a communicator (and before that a Psion series 5), both fitted well in a jacket pocket, failed the shirt pocket test... but when not at work I used a Sony Z5.

    11. Dave 15
      FAIL

      I wish people would think

      Just occasionally. Everyone can be an idiot, stick only to what they are told is the best, buy only what they are used to and make stupid comments about things they have no idea about. For Gods sake I am one of the 10,000 that Elop scrapped because of his stupid ignorant blinkered and incorrect view (the one that has turned the profitable, expensive, market leading company into a loss making, low value - look at the shares, irrelevance) but the phone is worth a look, worth a try, and worth considering. The OS is neither here nor there, what can and does the phone do, does it do that better than the others, is it as a package something that is better value than the next? The answer will be determined person to person, but just to say I won't look because someone has told me that windows is bad is just ignorant and stupid.

      I can imagine you in a polling station... oh I must vote for the "bugger the country up and sack everyone" party because I won't even look at what they've done in the past, or what the alternatives might be... just the sort of stupidity that leads to 'safe seats' and crap politics/.

  4. jai
    FAIL

    too big

    a centimetre thick? helloooo this is the 80s calling, we want our brick-phone back!

    1. The lone lurker
      Gimp

      Re: too big

      Thats only 0.7mm thicker than the current iPhone ( or an incredible 700 microns in marketing speak).

      Stick one of those shitty bumpers on your iPhone and its already ~1.2mm thick, more if its a 'protective' bumper.

    2. Fibbles
      Facepalm

      Re: too big

      The iPhone 4S is 9.3mm thick and seems to sell fairly well. The are lots of reasons for and against buying a new Lumia phone but an extra 0.7mm in thickness is not something any sane person would be troubled over.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: too big

      because its 0.7mm thicker than an iPhone?

    4. Charles Manning

      Downvotards amaze me

      Down voting a comment like this really brings into question the value of downvoting at all.

      Downvoting seems to be used for two reasons:

      a) Allow someone to express a negative emotional response that cannot be supported with a coherent set of words.

      b) Astroturfing by shills (of which the MS variety seem to be breeding).

      1. rvt

        Re: Downvotards amaze me

        c) Childish behavior name calling (Fapple, Sample, jesusphone etc...)

        1. auburnman
          Trollface

          Re: Downvotards amaze me

          d) Automatically downvoting someone who complains about downvoting

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "d) Automatically downvoting someone who complains about downvoting"

            I've lost track of this, and forget if I am supposed to down or upvote you.. I am going to flip a coin :)

      2. Goat Jam
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Downvotards amaze me

        There is no value in down voting and no point taking any notice of any down votes a post elicits.

        I don't know what motivates the retards who click the down vote button instead of providing an informative retort to a post that they disagree with but whatever it is, it's not worth the effort of trying to understand.

        The upvote can be useful as a substitute for making "me too! " posts but down votes are just lame.

      3. h4rm0ny

        Re: Downvotards amaze me

        A poster declares that 0.7mm thicker than one of the market leaders means a phone is useless and you can't see people wanting to express how silly they think that is as being other than a "MS shill", then I believe you should reassess your own biases.

      4. hugh wanger
        Unhappy

        Re: Downvotards amaze me

        @Charles Manning

        Anyone who likes a Microsoft product or service is "a shill".

        Will you ever grow up? Do you still type M$?

        I know comments areas are like this, especially Engadget or Games Forums - but shouldn't we be more grown up on The Register?

        I for one was on Google Apps (paid for BTW) before looking into Googles practices for a client, and Google worry me with what they do with data/privacy, and as Hotmail is now pretty good - I switched back to Hotmail.

        I love my 2 Windows phones I've had. (I've had iPhone, Android handsets, and still have a BB)

        I also really like the Windows 8 OS I'm using right now. And have moved off of my MacBook by putting my data on Skydrive and like Skydrives simple photo sharing for my family. So I am more and more an MS product and service user as they are really nice to use nothing more. Please don't call me a shill as I happen to like their stuff.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Downvotards amaze me

          Whatever you feel about Google and Data/Privacy - I would bet the house that Microsoft are doing exactly the same or worse and so are Apple and so are most other Corporations (with the one exception being slurping some unencrypted WiFi traffic as their cars past).

          Any companies that can gather BI in any way they can will use it.

          If they then sell your data on to the highest bidder it is another thing, however only Facebook seem to engage in this - I've not seen any evidence of many of the others doing it to a large degree.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Downvotards amaze me

            Hmm, agreed on there being little difference between Microsoft and Google when it comes to privacy, but I think Apple would prefer to protect its premium appearance, and I doubt selling some generalised data to advertises would fit in with that strategy. They would lose more customers because of it.

      5. Spotswood
        Happy

        Re: Downvotards amaze me

        Cop that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Downvotards amaze me

          Damn you :)

    5. Adam T

      Re: too big

      I'm actually the opposite - all this slender stuff is getting on my nerves, even the iPhone 4 cramps me up trying to hold it with 1 hand and type with the same hand's thumb.. And what do people do with their slender phones? Stick them in a >1cm thick case.

    6. stucs201

      Re: too big

      Its a whole 1.4 mm thicker than an iPhone 4. Is that really that much? Especially when you consider that the original iPhone was 0.9mm thicker than this Nokia, the 3G thicker still at 1.6mm more than the Nokia. Its hardly 80s phone dimensions.

      Now, if you were complaining about width and height, then I'd agree with you - but I'd also say the same about every modern phone - I'm still using an ancient, tiny, flipphone which does everything I want from a phone.

    7. Dave 15

      Re: too big

      When you put your brain in gear perhaps it can let your mouth rather than arse talk?

      The only thing I miss these days is a proper keyboard, and that is only because I like to use a phone one handed while taking notes, walking etc etc

      Best phone I have had recently has had touch screen and keyboard, a perfectly good combination - if had a flip it would not need a keylock and wouldn't have a scratched screen but thats another story.

  5. Bob Vistakin
    Facepalm

    Are you serious?

    So this has the latest Snapdragon S4 quad core CPU in and the most advanced mobile OS microsoft can come up with, and the best it can do is reduce the unusable 7 second delay when switching between tasks to a 3 second one? That's slower than the first gen Android G1.

    "What Intel giveth, microsoft taketh away" needs updating.

    1. Andy Nugent

      Re: Are you serious?

      I recently switched from a Nokia Lumia 800 to a Samsung Galaxy S3.

      Yes the "resuming..." of apps on Windows Phone got annoying, and any improvements in the multitasking would be a huge benefit.

      But I've seen the S3 fail to respond significantly more times than I ever saw on the Lumia 800.

      Bringing up the list of apps and returning to the desktop are prime examples. I don't even have a lot of widgets on the S3 (mostly full screen task / calendar / mail / etc.)

      Admittedly there may just be something wrong with my device, it's just an observation.

      But my impression from using WP devices (I've also used a HTC Pro 7 in the past) was that the processing power (or lack of) wasn't a huge issue. It's almost like it's been designed to run with that (locked down) spec.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Are you serious?

        Just a crap phone that's all.

        1. Dave 15

          Re: Are you serious?

          Nothing like being objective.

      2. Displacement Activity

        Re: Are you serious? @AndyN

        Had a Galaxy Nexus for nearly a year. Much the same as the S3, but the Nexus only has 2 x 1.2GHz cores, and the S3 has 4 x 1.4GHz cores. I've never once even noticed a multitasking delay switch. It just works - I've got 11 windows in the preview at the moment, touch one, and it pops up. Even the pdf doc displays pretty much immediately. I'd find a 3s delay unusable.

        The only problem is Vodafone, who are a pile of sh*te.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's like it's been designed to almost run with that (locked down) spec.

        FTFY

      4. Dave 15

        Re: Are you serious?

        Sad really, we weren't allowed to get away with anything like that much delay on Symbian... and on a much much slower processor.

        Still, obviously Elop is right, he's paid the mega bucks and you can see from the increasing profit (oops), massively increased market share (oops), accurate marketing (oops), and public image (oops again) that he is correct. Certainly the shareholders must think so as they make no attempt to get rid of him... or maybe thats just because the shareholders are our pension funds and the managers in charge are too busy spending their bonuses than looking after our investments.

    2. Carlos TuTu III
      FAIL

      Re: Are you serious?

      Anyone experiencing a 7 second delay must be installing some pretty shitty apps, fart generators perhaps??

      I have an 800, and I never even see a 2 second delay (I actually rarely see a tombstoned app, tbh)...

      Besides, my battery would have drained in full if I had to wait 7 seconds.

      Nokia could ship a blow job attachment with their next Lumia and I wouldn't go near it, it's back to Samsung for me - wish I'd never left.

      It hurts like hell to be an IT pro and have your wife constantly mocking you about the fact that if she forgets to charge the Omnia 7 (that you lovingly donated/cast off) in an evening, she can still use it for at least one more day before the battery saver gives her a six hour warning. She's most certainly never wanted to drive over it with the car/smash it with a sledgehammer/ram it up Elop's arse etc.

      1. Dave 15

        Re: Are you serious?

        Lumia vs Symbian... my Lumia flat in under a day, 2 if not used at all. Symbian C7 gives at least 5 days of normal use and well over that if left

    3. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Are you serious?

      I don't get a 7 second delay even on the cheapest Lumia 610. I wonder if his stopwatch is faulty ;)

    4. Gerhard den Hollander

      Re: Are you serious?

      Im still using a blackberry bol from I guess 2 years ago. Single core, even so, app switching on this never seems to take much time (less then a second as far as I can guesstimate.

      (i.e. start typing email, need to lookup something so switch to webbrowser, continue typing, switch to endomondo to see how long the ride home took, switch back to email all without lags that are big enough to become annoying.

      It's not really clear from the review if the background apps are still being tombstoned in WP8, but I would seriously hope not. (or at least not noticable)

      1. El Andy

        Re: Are you serious?

        It's only noticable on WP7 when running apps written for pre-Mango phones, that didn't support fast resuming. With most stuff on my current phone task switching is near instant (older Xbox Live games that have never recieved an update tend to be what lets the side down)

    5. Mark .

      Re: Are you serious?

      The main issue seems to be that it uses Apple-style multitasking, when applications are put into a suspended state. So yes, it's a reasonable criticism, but no one seems to have this problem with Apple doing it.

      Also note that on Android, applications are suspended after a while, and I've seen it take several seconds to resume some apps on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus. To be honest, the only mobile OS I've seen do multitasking properly was Symbian, which was always instant even on my now ancient Nokia 5800.

    6. larokus
      Stop

      Re: Are you serious?

      its at least infinitely quicker than multi-tasking on all but the latest versions of iOS which failed to exist at all.

  6. stim

    i want

    saving already, will be selling my Lumia 800 for one of these 920 badboys! :)

  7. Fuzz

    SD card

    From what I've seen elsewhere it seems the 920 comes with 32GB of onboard storage but no SD card slot, where as the 820 has 8GB onboard but you can add your own with an SD card.

    I think this is a real mistake, 64GB SD cards are now available for around £50. 96GB is going to come very close to holding my whole music collection finally pensioning off my ipod.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      pensioning off your ipod?

      The problem, as you've no doubt suspected, is that WP8 -- like Android -- sucks down enormous amounts of power while playing music, thus rendering it a poor replacement for a dedicated music player. To my dismay, only the iPhone seems able to manage power consumption during audio playback reasonably.

      1. Mark .

        Re: pensioning off your ipod?

        Have no problems with battery life when playing on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus. (Though I still keep my separate Sansa because more battery life on a separate device is useful, not that it's particularly bad on the Galaxy; because it's tiny and quicker to pull out to change music; because on the Nexus I don't have a microSD slot, unlike my Sansa.)

      2. Law
        Meh

        Re: pensioning off your ipod?

        "The problem, as you've no doubt suspected, is that WP8 -- like Android -- sucks down enormous amounts of power while playing music, thus rendering it a poor replacement for a dedicated music player."

        Hmm... odd, because my Xperia S has been my dedicate work music player for months (and I listen to work for about 6 hours at work, to shut out the distractions while I write software) and it rarely consumes 2% of my entire days usage.

        Granted, it's all 320kbps mp3s, not flac or anything, but that's using the standard sony music player on the phone over Android ICS. I had no issue with my Desire doing the same either before this, but that was using an custom AOSP-based rom (not HTCs sense stuff).

      3. larokus
        Stop

        Re: pensioning off your ipod?

        That is hardware based. I have an S4 krait processor in my NA One X and can play music all day long. Not to mention play 18 holes of golf to find out my battery was at 98% at the 19th hole. My iphone playing partners jaw hit the floor.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: pensioning off your ipod?

        Really? I use my S3 as a music player on the daily commute, 2-3 hours each day, with a little light browsing. It lasts a couple of days on a charge, using nothing more fancy than the onboard power saving.

        I use Poweramp for the gapless playback, but no tossy EQ options- those will increase the power consumption, as keeps the CPU working harder, and clocked up much higher. The same applies if you use EQ on an iPhone, too.

      5. Dave 15

        Re: pensioning off your ipod?

        I wonder... having never bothered with music on a mobile phone (don't really care for music myself - especially not the modern crap that seems to be around) - do the phones keep the screen alive to show you some nasty music video or whirly mess on the screen? If so that probably explains a lot of the power consumption. Equally the habit of illuminating the screen when ever the touch screen is touched in case you want to 'unlock it' is a vast waste of power - especially if you keep the phone in your pocket. Good reasons for some manufacturer to head back towards the old flip phone design.

        1. Law

          @Dave 15 Re: pensioning off your ipod?

          "Equally the habit of illuminating the screen when ever the touch screen is touched in case you want to 'unlock it' is a vast waste of power - especially if you keep the phone in your pocket"

          Every touchscreen phone I've ever seen has a dedicated lock/unlock button at the top or side... THAT enables the screen, THEN you slide/pattern/pin/move to unlock the phone.

          "do the phones keep the screen alive to show you some nasty music video or whirly mess on the screen"

          I think in the past the screen would stay alive on my old iPhone 3G if it was playing music on the dock (but then it'd be powered, so that makes sense). Otherwise the screen is off. On my sony phone you can turn on visualisations (the wavy music thingies) if you want - but by default it'll lock/turn off the screen as normal with music playing in the background. Most phones work that way. If you click the lock/unlock button the screen will turn on again, with shortcut music controls. That was the same on my HTC, iPhone and Sony phones so I think it is a standard thing.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: pensioning off your ipod?

          Dave,

          Nope, at least not on iOS or Android, the screen goes off after a few seconds, in line with the power management policy of the phone. It's not uncommon to have some basic controls on the lock screen too, so when you fish the thing out of your pocket, you can change the track without needing to unlock. This is useful if you are (just as an example, entirely plucked out of the air, totally innocent) cheerfully listening to an Orbital album to hear the whiney, grating tones of David bloody Gray on a track*. GRR.

          Ahem. Sorry about that, peace and love, calm now.

          * Ok, so he is brother in law to one of the Hartnolls, that's still no excuse. Tosser. He sounds like a Rod Steward cover of Coldplay.

          1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

            Re: Re: pensioning off your ipod?

            "an Orbital album to hear the whiney, grating tones of David bloody Gray"

            Oh come on, Illuminate wasn't /that/ bad an album track. Gray's voice was so distorted and edited in the end you could hardly tell it was him ;-)

            C.

    2. h4rm0ny

      Re: SD card

      "96GB is going to come very close to holding my whole music collection finally pensioning off my ipod."

      With a typical song being about 4 minutes in length, encoded in 320Kbps, 96GB is... about 17,000 tracks? Do you have every full length piece of Classical music or something? How can you possibly listen to that much music? Genuine question - not criticising.

      1. davemcwish

        Re: SD card

        Probably less than that. I've filled up a 64Gb Touch with ~4800 'songs', podcasts and apps; not all the 'songs' are 320Kbps either. Personally I'd have preferred more space that that but Apple seem to think that we don't need a lot of storage so cap the amount and don't provide expansion capability

        I don't listen to all that at anyone time but I want to have the choice without thinking "OK what do I want to listen to [x period] in the future"

      2. Philip Lewis
        Pint

        Re: SD card

        We don't.

        We put it on random shuffle and fire away. A great way to hear stuff you still like but have not listened to for a while.

      3. hi_robb
        Alert

        Re: SD card

        I'll answer this one for you to,

        Some of us are in really to music and have an awful lot of it. I've got about 500 12' vinyl dance records. With an average of 3 mixes per record that lot on their own is 1500 tracks.

        Then on top of that I also have about 1500 cd's (of which 98% are albums). Each CD probably has on average 10 tracks ((most have more but I'm being conservative) so there's another 10,000 songs. However, at least a 3rd of those albums are double cd (or more) albums so that's at least another 5000 tracks.

        So I've got at least 18,000 tracks in my collection and I know I am being conservative with my figures.

        Now on the second part of your question. I don't listen to them all at the same time, I chop and change often, some songs / albums go years without being played. But then one day I'll decide I want to listen to one, do so, get back in to it and then decide I want to listen to it when out.

        My phone only has 4S only has 32GB of space so I end up having to clear an album on the phone already to fit the one I want on there on. For me it's no great issue as my entire library of music is already ripped (I spent a long time doing it a long time ago), but it would be convenient to be able to fit everything on in one go.

        PS, the reason I have an Iphone is simply that I like them, I like the music player on them and for a long time they were apart from sony devices the only devices which would play gapless playback. My library was ripped in apple format years ago when I had an original ipod and I'm not about to spend years changing it.

        Dave

      4. Nasty Nick

        Re: SD card

        Equivalent to about an album a week for 30 years - I reckon there are quite a few bods out there who collect like that. I have a brother who has even more, most of it on vinyl he's been picking up since his teens, though the newer stuff is largely CD (he won't touch downloads).

        He listens to each album on the day he buys it.

        Keeps the collection upstairs in a spare bedroom in dirty great metal filing cabinets. He's still adding to it despite warnings about overdoing the floor loadings, so no doubt much of it will soon be making it's way through the floor boards.

    3. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: SD card

      Windows Phones are designed for the cloud - storing everything in Skydrive and for streaming music - from Nokia, Microsoft Zune, and several other choices. 32GB is more than enough to hold the music you really need for a plane flight, tube journey or anything else where data isnt available.

  8. ByeLaw101
    Devil

    Wow.. Nokia have a hit on their hands!

    "bonk-to-pay" YESS!! What a great idea! Does it come with it's own Prophylactic? (Pun actually not intended!)

    1. Dave 15

      Re: Wow.. Nokia have a hit on their hands!

      bonk to pay is really confusing... pay to bonk is understood

  9. Neil Greatorex

    Not you as well, FFS!

    "The 820 has lots going for it. There's the rounded corners"

    Enough already.

    1. AlbertH
      Coat

      Re: Not you as well, FFS!

      "The 820 has lots going for it. There's the rounded corners"

      Here comes the lawsuit from Apple!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not you as well, FFS!

      im going to punch out every apple in my refrigerator. Or maybe nail them to a cross and set them on fire

  10. Clarity
    Stop

    It's not thicker actually as the hands on states.

    The specification shows that it's 10.7 mm versus the Lumia 900's 11.5 mm thickness. So yes, it is larger in area and heavier but it's not thicker.

    Also, how is that you glossed over NFC, dual-core processing, a much better screen resolution with motion mprovements and more choice in customization(covers, colors, accessories?).

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: It's not thicker actually as the hands on states.

      "how is that you glossed over NFC, dual-core processing, a much better screen resolution with motion mprovements and more choice in customization"

      If it means anything, this was mentioned in Andrew's previous piece on the new Lumias, published this evening.

      No doubt a full review will cover such stuff.

      C.

    2. Tom 38 Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: It's not thicker actually as the hands on states.

      Also, how is that you glossed over NFC..

      no doubt Redmond wants to keep some headline-stealers in reserve. We now know the People hub is one of them. Presumably, bonk-to-pay is another – there was not one mention of NFC for mobile payments.

      Comprehension fail.

  11. FordPrefect
    FAIL

    The hardware sounds awesome why do Nokia insist on crippling it with trashy Microsoft phone operating system . How about listening to your customers and providing them with what they want ie this hardware with android. You can still sell the crappy windows version if you have too...

    1. Andy Nugent
      IT Angle

      @FordPrefect

      Have you ever actually used Windows Phone for more than 5 minutes? Serious question, as people seem to have very strong opinions for how awful it is but very few seem to have ever owned / borrowed an actual device.

      1. FordPrefect
        Stop

        Re: @FordPrefect

        I've had a play with one it wasnt as bad as the old version 6 XDA I had but it certainly wasnt upto the standards of the iphone or an android device. Given that microsoft have a habit of burning the platform they just made why would I want to find myself in the situation where the next version comes out and support for my version basically ends and if I am really unlucky at the end of my contract microsoft have pulled store support for my device?

      2. mistergrantham

        Re: @FordPrefect

        Iast wp7 device I bought had to returned after discovering applications couldn't read/write files directly to its internal storage. Connecting it to a PC to read/write files entailed installing zune and editing the registry. Also, there was no way to edit/run python on the device... What else... oh yes: The IM client didn't support Google-chat. All of these are a non-issue with the n9 which itself was under-developed... Many of the arguments against using wp variants are perfectly valid.

      3. Andy ORourke
        Joke

        Re: @FordPrefect

        Hi Andy, since you must be new to the register forums.

        ANYTHING made by Microsoft is total rubbish, no need to research it, see it or use it, it just is OK.

        Stuff made by apple, well they just stole everything from <insert the first mobile phone you ever owned>

        Android & Linux are perfect and anyone who doesn't use these is a retard of the highest order

        You're welcome

        1. Dave 15

          Re: @FordPrefect

          Good summing up.

          Actually you can add that anyone who can't hack the linux kernel to fix its bugs is such a tool they don't deserve to breath far less own a computer. And there is nothing more exhilarating in the world than spending a night cuddled up with your favourite computer hacking away at a command line or bash script to achieve a 'find in files'.... no one really wants to meet a woman, perhaps have sex or drink a pint.... tooo too boring for words

    2. TangD
      Meh

      Listening to who?

      Not sure that a me too Android product is the way to go, there are already a lot of good products in the space you would have to compete with. I mean it is a bit of a hail Mary but if Windows 8 works out for them (and it may) then Nokia might be back in business. The Android hardware business is not as I understand it a great way to make money right now if you are not already a strong participant.

      The real question for me is can they make enough money from it to make the share price improve, given where it is now it could be a bargain, to do that they need to figure out who their customers really are and start selling to them. I suspect that Android customers are primarily just that and not <insert hardware manufactures> customers, though I could be wrong.

    3. Moeluk

      No they can't because if they did that Nokia might not fail, and flop won't get a large bonus from Ballmer for serving a phone manufacture to them for nothing on a plate...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        really?

        I can't believe people are trotting this out. The Nokia board approved Elop as a CEO supported by the shareholders, they were already seriously ailing. Were this some sort of conspiracy would Nokia be making serious efforts to produce stand out hardware, or would they still be using Symbian on crappy plasticy underpowered resistive touch-screened crap? My guess is the latter.

        1. Philip Lewis
          FAIL

          Re: really?

          Learn to read a balance sheet, then read Nokia's at the time of Elop's appointment up until the "Burning platform" announcement.

          "they were already seriously ailing" -- This statement is provably false.

          In need of change of direction? Maybe

          In need of radical change? Maybe but probably not

          In need of a better UI for their phones? Maybe but probably as a marketing point to break into US market

          ...

          Clowns like you repeating crap does not make it true, especially when the numbers are actually available.

          1. Dave 15

            Re: really?

            It is sad that there are lots of clowns like the guy you replied to spouting hot air with no factual back up. The biggest problem is that many of these clowns are journalists working for the likes of the BBC.and even sometimes putting in an appearance at el reg.

            At the time of the burning platform speech it is true to say that Nokia smartphones were seeing a drop in market share in the face of well marketed (but inferior) competition. BUT if you look at the important figures about the NUMBER of phones being shipped they were still increasing.

            The Symbian operating system itself is superior in terms of performance and battery life to the iOS and even Android alternatives (and it is well published that the winpho has nothing like the battery capabilities). The S60 layers on top of Symbian (Symbian is the operating system, S60 is what you see) have long been inefficient but on the later phones a good deal of reengineering has been fixing some of these issues though there is room for a many fold improvement in performance.

            Further, the development environment may not have been as familiar as the windows phone but is infinitely better and more familiar than 'objective C' and the clunky mess of tools that Apple provided.

            To cap it all - as we have seen - the windows phone is just plain not capable of having anything even vaguely like the 808 pureviews camera and camera application - that was created because the Symbian OS was flexible enough to allow the major engineering required to transfer that much data from the camera to storage, and process it to do autofocus, touch autofocus, stabilize the image, find faces, zooming etc.

            Elop is a good example of what is utterly rotten in the 'west' economically. The guy FAILED at Microsoft - being just about the only person ever to achieve the accolade of REDUCING sales and REDUCING profit in the Office division - no wonder he wasn't kept there long. How he was appointed by Microsoft having failed and crashed so many companies before remains a mystery. If you look at his performance in Nokia - taking a massive profit making company, losing thousands of highly experienced engineers, failing to lose the more suspect marketing department (they of the faked photos...), losing it its top position, moving its prized quality manufacturing to a cheap and low quality Chinese base, creating some also ran touch slab phones without any variation for those of us who like a real keyboard etc. or other differentiation from the other clones in the phone shops, and turning it into a company bleeding cash at a rate that leaves it with under a year to run before it is bankrupt. How is that guy still in the job? How is he still drawing a salary (the salary hasn't gone down with thee size of the company and the change from profit to loss)? How is he still to get a bonus? How is it that the share holders haven't kicked him out? It is because the share holders own shares with your money - they are the pension funds and banks, it isn't their money, if they've lost it they don't care because they won't be worse off - you will.

            Elop is a disaster but only one example of the many that pollute the 'top' jobs in Western industry and the very people that are responsible for the decisions and actions that have lost the West its inventive and productive capability to China and India. Next time you are in a shop look at the products on display, try and find something made in your own home country. You won't it will be made in China. Then think back 20 years when almost nothing was made in China.

      2. Dave 15

        large bonus for killing Nokia

        He is getting enough money being there. I doubt Bulmer or anyone else wants to buy Nokia now (judging from the share price this is a widely shared view). If you think about it what would Microsoft do with a brand that is now 100% associated with the failure, closure of plants and sackings of people? It WAS a good brand name and it can still produce wonderful devices but the people at the top have no idea what they have or how to manage it. The brand is now crippled and Microsoft won't want it.

        Don't forget Elop was the ONLY person who ever actually managed to lower the sales of Microsoft Office. Yes he actually caused a downturn in sales and profits in the short time between being put in charge and being kicked out (erm, sorry, employed by Nokia for his amazing talent).

    4. Michael Duke

      While I am not WinPho 7.5 greatest fanboy I like my Lumia 800.

      Only real downside for me is that lack of tethering support.

      1. Mint Sauce
        Happy

        "internet sharing" was introduced in the recent update on my 710.

        Just tested it out and it seems to work fine. Allows up to 5 devices to be connected at once.

      2. piran

        tethering? ...Internet Sharing?

        I was given to understand that the latest update adds 'tethering' support (aka internet sharing?). Cannot confirm this as I have nothing here which needs tethering to my Lumia 800 kit.

        http://www.nokia.com/global/support/software-update/lumia/software-update-for-nokia-lumia/

      3. B4PJS

        Got tethering on my L800. Not sure why you never got that update

    5. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Because WP8 is better than anything else currently on the market. Especially that MeGo and Symbian crap they had before.

      1. Dave 15

        Better than Symbian

        In what way exactly?

        (My meego knowledge is limited)

        I have to ask as I have been involved in the development of both Windows phone and Symbian (and a few other bits and bobs).

        Certainly from a consumer point of view Symbian offered better performance per £ (cheaper processor and less delay), better battery life, better security and many other benefits over Windows. Now the UI might seem dated looking back but then a year 2000 car looks dated looking back.

      2. Dave 15

        Oh and forgot to mention...

        The UI most people associate with Symbian was actually Nokia's - S60. S60 was a UI built on top of an operating system. UIQ was another and the Japanese created a further one. Symbian was actually much better than most people realise even though the UI layer on top was often not ideal.

  12. Davidoff
    FAIL

    Disappointing

    Two supposed to be high end phones with measly 8MP cameras, lowly memory and with the top model even lacking SD card? Really Nokia? That's all you could come up with?

    I was really excited about the new Lumia phones, but I'm certainly not replacing my Nokia N8 with that, sorry.

    I guess Apple most certainly won't lose any sleep over these phones. What a shame.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Disappointing

      "Two supposed to be high end phones with measly 8MP cameras"

      Perhaps somebody at Nokia is aware of the diffraction limit of a 1mm diameter lens?

      1. Dave 15

        Re: Disappointing

        Nokia managed to put a 41mpix camera into a phone. True it requires a bigger lens and a bulge on the back of the phone to accommodate the sensor, lens focusing etc. The fact is that a large amount of lens problem is corrected by the image processor chip and software behind it on ANY of these small cameras. The lowly camera is not dictated by physical problems of a large camera but by the limitations of the operating system and the graphics processing. Limitations that Symbian just didn't have.

    2. Sean Timarco Baggaley
      WTF?

      Re: Disappointing

      "I guess Apple most certainly won't lose any sleep over these phones."

      I don't think Nokia give a damn whether Apple lose any sleep over this. Apple aren't their competition. Apple are only interested in the high-end market and couldn't give a toss about anything else.

      Nokia are aiming at Android licensees. HTC, LG, Samsung, etc.

      Most Android users are still stuck with the v2.x releases which really do look like a blind man's attempt at copying iOS. The Lumias are different enough to stand out from that "me-too" crowd while still offering good features at a decent price. (And they're big and colourful, which seems to go down well the fairer sex, most of whom have handbags and therefore don't care if it's too big for a pocket.)

      Worse still, and despite claims to the contrary, Android doesn't have an ecosystem. The correct term for what Android has is "an unholy mess".

      If Microsoft can get their ecosystem working—this time, they'll have Windows 8 and Windows 8 RT to punt, as well as a proper App Store—Android could very well be in big trouble.

    3. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Disappointing

      Pixel count isn't everything.

      What's the point of a 10 MP camera if half the pixels only show random noise?

      A lower pixel count can be better because the pixel sensors can be physically larger, so less susceptible to noise.

      1. Dave 15
        FAIL

        Re: Disappointing

        the 41mpix doesn't show random noise, a 10mpix doesn't either. The N8 has no problem with having pixels showing random noise either. Please talk from mouth when the brain is in gear :)

    4. Robert Grant

      Re: Disappointing

      Haven't you used a Windows Phone? Buttery smooth on a single core 800Mhz CPU. Finally we can start getting over phone specs.

      1. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Disappointing

        Yes it is only Android that needs quad cores - and still gets laggy. Must be that dated monolithic Linux kernel......Modern OSs have hybrid micro kernels.

        1. enerider
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: Disappointing

          My sarcasm detector exploded and then imploded violently. I am currently holding onto the wall until things stop disappearing into the unknown.

          I think the "laggy" often disappears with a good old-fashioned nuking of the vendor-supplied stuff.

          Similar to how nuking the vendor-supplied Windows install with a completely fresh, unadulterated copy of Windows often yields better results than the factory image. (Often included is a copy of something from Symantec, with the just-as-often removal of which yielding substantial speed boosts).

          I think a Verity Stob article on "cruft" explains the situation quite well.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Disappointing

            Nah, he's not sarcastic, just a prat, have a look at his posting history.

    5. David Barrett Silver badge

      Re: Disappointing

      From my experience a high pixel count is no substitute for a good lens.

      I have a 4.3 mp camera that takes better pics because of its lens than some of the 14mp ones I have played with.

      Its also worth noting that these phones have replaceable covers, so no need for a car to prevent scuffs and scrapes so the fact its a little thicker doesn't really matter, most people go out to get an super thin device and then jam it in 3mm of ugly plastic to protect it anyway!

    6. h4rm0ny

      Re: Disappointing

      8MP is actually plenty for most purposes. At that point, image quality is far more influenced by issues such as lens quality than raw MP. Yes, if everything else is the same then more MP is better, but a 15MP camera is far from necessarily better than a 10MP camera without knowing *a lot* of other information. I have a professional quality SLR. Lenses for it can cost £400. It is 18.5MP, less than half that of the Nokia N8 and takes better pictures than any camera phone ever has and, possibly than they ever will.

      MP in a camera is a lot like RAM in a computer. If you don't have enough, it's a problem. But once you've gone beyond what you need, adding more and more isn't going to make anything run faster or better.

      1. TJ 2

        Re: Disappointing

        @h4rm0ny "I have a professional quality SLR. Lenses for it can cost £400.

        I have a professional SLR... I wish my lenses were £400. Try adding another zero to the end of that, then if you really want to go to town, double, triple and even quadruple that.

        The point you/I are making is simple. Raw MP, Sensor Quality and Optical quality are interwoven.

        A high MP, shite sensor, with a shite lense system will give shit images.

        A high MP, shite sensor, with a good lense system may give OK images.

        An average (say 8mp) MP, quality sensor, with quality optics will give high quality images that are free of chroma and other noise artifacts, will suffer less from difraction, aberration, vignetting and will probably be sharper across the whole CCD/frame. That means you can upscale them and print them on a larger format equivalent to or larger than the poor quality breeds.

        That's why there are consumer, prosumer and pro cameras and lenses.

        This is exaclty why pro photographers use quality equipment (Especially the lenses).

        The troll whining about this has no idea what he/she/it is talking about. And as you rightly point out, a poor quality 18.5mp sensor/optics solution can easily proudce a lesser quality result than an 8mp.

        I had a (very old) 10mp point-n-shoot camera that on it's highest quality settings produced worse images than my partners 5mp point-n-shoot canon. It was so bad in fact that I smashed the shit out of it one day when I returned home having taken some "day out" snaps to find they were so badly wriddled with chromatic noise that the images would not print bigger than 6"x4" (to hide the poor quailty). (Yes, I should have taken the SLR but I didn't want to carry it that day!)

        Quailty over quantity any day.

        1. jason 7 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Disappointing

          Indeed, I've always said I'd be really happy with a really good 3.2MP cam on a phone.

          I'm still waiting.

          The thing is someone like Apple will stick a 14MP cam in the iPhone and the tech world of lazy ass licker journos will go "Oh this is amazing, so great that Apple (or whomever) finally understands what the smartphone public need!"

          They will gleefully take loads of 14MP pics with their new precious....then compress them, run them through Instagram instant pic crappifier filter and post them up on Twitter/Facebook for folks to look at on their 4" screen phones and 14" TN panel Laptops.

          But will they see the irony?

          Answers on a postcard.

        2. h4rm0ny

          Re: Disappointing

          "I have a professional SLR... I wish my lenses were £400. Try adding another zero to the end of that, then if you really want to go to town, double, triple and even quadruple that."

          Oh I'm well aware that there are more expensive ones out there. I'm also well aware that I am not a good enough photographer to need them. ;)

          I agree with your whole post and I've experienced the same myself.

        3. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Disappointing

          lens sensors amd megapixels

          Yes I have taken lots of lowish megapixel pictures of quite decent quality.

          Lens good - well it is for a domestic video camera.

          sensor - pretty good again, but low megapixels.

          My last video camera was about 1.2MP and the quality was OK even at A4.

          Newest does 6MP as it is HD and I have some nice pictures off it.

        4. Dave 15

          Re: Disappointing

          Better as you say to have quality, but better still to have quality AND quantity. Phone cameras rarely have both - the 808 pureview does have both proving it is possible. Many of the problems you highlight are tackled by processing the image.

    7. Gerhard den Hollander

      Re: measly 8MP

      Well, apparently the 8MP camera is giving much better results then anything else in the phonemarket.

      My ``real'' camera is an 8MP panasonic lumix , and quite honestly 8MP is more then enough for me.

      99% of the pictures I take with it, I watch on my screen (2048x1152 or 1200x1600 or 1920x1200, all of which are well below the 8MP threshold). 8MP can be printed at 50x30 cm without noticable pixilating.

      And quite frankly, Im glad some of my friends dont have 25MP on their phones, as some of them have never gotten the hang of downsizing before emailing.

    8. Aoyagi Aichou
      Windows

      Re: Disappointing

      Better stick to tha Symbian then. I think you can even use PC Suite with N8, right? Ovi/Nokia Suite is one of many reasons why I'm not getting a new phone. (not to mention the rest of the connection applications I've seen)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Disappointing

        Shush, I still have nightmares about "PC Suite". It makes even Samsung Kies look good, and that shouldn't be possible.

    9. auburnman
      WTF?

      Re: Disappointing

      You consider 8MP measly? I'd be more than happy with that to capture life's little moments. I still have photos of my friends snapped on 1.3MP or even - horror of horrors - VGA cameras. If I'm going to a Wedding or something I'll take a dedicated camera.

    10. blcollier
      FAIL

      Re: Disappointing

      "Measly" 8MP? Is 3264x2448 too small for your monitor/TV then? My Canon DSLR "only" has a "measly" 8MP sensor and I can get poster-sized prints with that.

      More megapixels count for nothing against a good quality sensor and lens, and even those considerations are secondary to the ability of the person behind the lens. If you can't get good photos with 8MP then I'd suggest that the problem isn't the camera.

      1. Dave 15
        FAIL

        Re: Disappointing

        8mpix is quite a lot BUT if you have more then you can start to do really interesting things - the 41mpix of the 808 uses the excess pixels for one of two things. In 'low' resolution modes (around 8mpix) it is using the extra pixels to allow it to cope better in dark conditions (try using the 808 at an evening pop concert and compare the results to those from an iPhone - the 808 is massively superior - and the sound is better as well). In brighter conditions it allows a zoom so that the 'low' resolution is taken from the very centre of the image and makes it appear you have zoomed in without the losses from normal digital zoom (which gathers 4 or more pixels together and ultimately creates a blocky version of the image). Yes, if you have a real telephoto lens you can zoom in optically but a phone is a phone and while the 808 does have a moving lens (for focus) a telephoto is really out of the question.

        Ultimately 8mpx will give you your poster, but a higher resolution will give you more than just a poster.

    11. Andrew Lobban
      Stop

      Re: Disappointing

      I still use a Nikon D40 SLR with a 'measly 6MP sensor. I have a number of lenses for different situations. I can guarantee you that any images I produce will easily be considerably better than any camera phone currently on the market. MP does not equal quality.

  13. AlbertH
    Coat

    Lawsuit Alert

    "The 820 has lots going for it. There's the rounded corners"

    Here comes the lawsuit from Apple.....

  14. Dave 126 Silver badge

    8 MP not too shabby

    My compact camera only has 10MP, and it is reviewed as a premium model. If the low light capabilities of these new Nokias are as good as people make out (and comparison shots taken by that Pure View Nokia against the Lumix LX-5 and the Olympus PEN E-1 suggest Nokia might have a trick up their sleeve) then they will be nothing to be sniffed at. People are beginning to stop playing the megapixel game.

  15. Nate Amsden

    i'll get it

    only if I can squirt files around.

  16. GrantB
    Boffin

    Premature release?

    Strike me that Nokia/Microsoft engineers must have been on a death march project to hit the timeline ahead of Apple and Google press releases (but just behind Samsung). Any developer will know the pressure you get put under to deliver just enough to make it look complete for the release (but ensuring that minders don't allow proper hands on without lots of management).

    Quite surprising given that in theory the core internal hardware should have been an almost off the shelf bit of kit typical of any Android phone developer is churning out these days.

    Given that the hardware is still not production ready, they can't give a price (got to be up with S3 or iPhone 5), availability (pre Nov?), the SDK still not finished, and I wonder about battery life, then I question why people would hold off on buying S3 or iPhone 5s (the latter of which will probably be available next week) for these to be available?.

    I kinda like the colours though, even if I suspect it is just to make the advertising look good (can't imagine they will sell lots of bright yellow/red in the high end corporate market, other than McDonalds/Coke execs) . Bit sick of monochrome iDevices, but I can't image pulling out a giant bright yellow Tonka toy / phone while sitting in a business meeting with corporates, so I can see the point of having replacement skins from day one.

    1. Dave 15

      Re: Premature release?

      You might not want replacement skins, but plenty will. The stupid thing is that the replacement skin really should come with the ability to provide a replacement base UI colour and so forth... perfectly possible

  17. Silverburn
    Thumb Up

    Hmmm

    Normally I wouldn't give these a second glance, but this time...hmmm.

    - big screen and HD too

    - good camera

    - better mult-tasking

    - better tiles

    This could be in with a shout come xmas, when I'm due for a replacement...and for once all three OS'es are pencilled in:

    - Lumina 920 (win 8)

    - Galax Note 2 (Android)

    - Iphone 5 (ios)

    Not bad eh? good time ahead!

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Hmmm

      Better than HD actually.

      Higher Pixel density than Apple Retina displays with brighter display, less motion blurring and more intelligent control of brightness, colour and contrast. For instance screen is visible in very bright sunlight....

  18. E 2

    Scaredy pants

    Michael Franti reported from outside the green zone.

    I'll stand an M$ Fone that you've not been to Iraq since the invasion!

  19. MacroRodent Silver badge
    FAIL

    WP8 and low-end phones

    "I'm not convinced WP8 can work on smaller cheaper devices"

    Which begs the question, what will Nokia run on them? S40? WP7? These don't cut it when competing low-end phones are running a full-blown Android.

    Nokia will regret killing the "Meltemi" project.

    1. Dave 15

      Re: WP8 and low-end phones

      Killing of Meltemi will not be regretted. I have an idea that the project has merely been somewhat scaled down and relocated to a subsidiary.

      Doesn't really matter anyway - with the rate they are burning cash, the inability of the CEO and the lack of effort by the shareholders to oust him in favour of someone with ability and a brain the company won't exist for long enough to regret the stupid decision.

  20. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Linux

    Variable Tile sizes?

    Whooppeee!

    Seriously though, who decides on the sizes of the tiles when displayed?

    If it is the app dev then everyone will opt for the biggest possible thus destroying this feature

    If it is MS then wht are the rules for deciding what gets the most UI space

    No/hardly two people are the same when it comes to what apps they use most often. If the sizing is based upon use then fine but somhow I doubt it.

    Not that I'm likely to buy one of these. As I current see it, these phones give me nothing that my current Android does apart from a 'Coo Flashy screen'. Will we see the rise of the WP8 Fanbois who slag off everything Android and Apple?

    If there is a really compelling USP for a WP8 device then surely MS would be shouting it from the rooftops.

    Then on the otherhand, could the timing of this be an appempt to spoil Apple's party next week with the iPnoe 5 announcement? It wouldn't be the first time that MS has done this?

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Variable Tile sizes?

      You chose / adjust the tile size yourself.

  21. Flatpackhamster
    Pirate

    Rounded corners?

    Somebody tell Apple's lawyers, there's a patent on that.

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Rounded corners?

      Microsoft have a patent cross licensing agreement with Apple. Just so long Nokia dont directly copy Apple look and feel they are covered....

  22. TheItCat
    WTF?

    Megaidiots

    Looks like people claiming "it has 8MP and my phone has 12MP, therefore my phone is better" is the new way to prove someone is an idiot.

    Come on, people, this is supposed to be a techie forum. You should know by now that the quality of the image depends upon WAY more than how many megafroobles the sensor sticks into the final image. My >5 year old EOS SLR with a mere 5MP still produces massively better images than any android phone (12MP or not) because the sensor is bigger, the distance between the sensor and the glass is larger and the glass is simply better. Suck it up.

    I'd far rather have image stabilised, noise-free, properly colour corrected images at 8MP than noisy, garish and blurry 12MP ones. Each to their own though, eh?

  23. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    3 seconds to app-switch?

    Ye gods...

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No more than 3 seconds delay?!

    Wake me up when they've got it down to 0.3 seconds

    1. larokus
      FAIL

      Re: No more than 3 seconds delay?!

      no crap! give me a windows 7 phone with a corei7 and a 580gtx video card inside already. This is 2012 ffs

  25. Boris Winkle
    Megaphone

    I'm all over it like a cheap suit

    Got no problem with my Lumia 800. Still as fast and fluid as when I first had it. Got a ton of apps on there.

    WindowsPhone 7.5 is a good SOLID OS. No crashes or lockups. I Can't fault it, but, I'm definitely getting the LUMIA 920 as soon as it come out.

    Double processing power

    Better display (more than 720p) then 'retina' (the Nokia 920 has 332ppi, whereas iPhone4/4S has 326ppi.)

    Puremotion HD+ display (use it with gloves on. Ladies can use their nails)

    Superb camera

    32Gb onboard

    NFC

    Wireless Charging

    Yep.. I'm getting one.

  26. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. RyokuMas Silver badge
      Holmes

      Devs have long abandoned the WP7...

      http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Dare+Indie+Fest/feature.asp?c=44183

      Article dated 17th of last month.

      Nuff said.

    2. El Andy

      Re: Win 7 Pho users abandoned WinPhoFAIL

      All my WP7 apps still work fine on my WP7 device. And they will all run on a WP8 phone. In what sense is this a problem? Do you think the iPhone4 is obsolete because the iPhone5 (which OMG!!! runs a newer version of the OS) is due out soon?

      1. GrantB
        Trollface

        Re: Win 7 Pho users abandoned WinPhoFAIL

        "All my WP7 apps still work fine on my WP7 device".

        Sure, just like all the Symbian apps are still running on Symbian phones, but that is a burning platform right?. Reality is that WP7 never had the app support that other platforms have, and its not going to ever get better now that MS have orphaned WP7.

        "And they will all run on a WP8 phone. In what sense is this a problem? "

        In the sense, that developers are unlikely to target WP7 specifically as the total number of WP7 phones in use makes it a minority OS. So you are going to be unlikely to get any new, updated, fixed apps.

        MS are telling developers (like me) to target W8 and get better support across devices, but that is a problem for WP7 owners yes?

        "Do you think the iPhone4 is obsolete because the iPhone5 (which OMG!!! runs a newer version of the OS) is due out soon?"

        No I don't think that iOS6 makes the iPhone 4 obsolescent as again, you will know very well that Apple release it free of charge to owners of iPhone 4, iPhone 4S etc.

        Apple, for all there supposed faults, don't orphan off recently released hardware, so while the current flagship Lumia 900 sitting in shops (not being sold) won't get W8, previous generations of iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch will all get an upgrade to iOS6.

        1. Dave 15

          Re: Win 7 Pho users abandoned WinPhoFAIL

          "Sure, just like all the Symbian apps are still running on Symbian phones, but that is a burning platform right?"

          Actually Symbian was very good at compatibility between OS versions keeping most applications working. There were a couple of well announced compatibility breaks especially when platform security was introduced. There was little excuse for app vendors not to provide the update as it was trivial to do (a few tweaks to the build and no real tweak needed to the code - if any at all). The 'burning platform' still had increasing sales month on month until a misguided CEO did a Ratner on it.

          "Reality is that WP7 never had the app support that other platforms have, and its not going to ever get better now that MS have orphaned WP7."

          The real reality is that if a windows dev tries to develop for windows phone he will find the tools and API's remarkably familiar. The tools provided are far superior to those provided for Apple or even Symbian (and Symbian weren't really that bad). At least you don't need to learn a new language (objectiveC) with a rather bizarre and unique syntax, a pile of new tools (which often don't work for at least several versions). True flooding the app store with millions of 'me too' applications manages to allow a select few at the top of the pile to make some money, but for the majority it is a waste of effort.

          "In the sense, that developers are unlikely to target WP7 specifically as the total number of WP7 phones in use makes it a minority OS. So you are going to be unlikely to get any new, updated, fixed apps."

          This is true of all systems, those with an older Apple phone - if it can be updated to the new OS (I don't remember ever hearing a guarantee about that) will also find a lack of updates for their out of date phones and apps. Very few developers on any platform like to develop for out of date systems - whether that is windows or linux.

          "MS are telling developers (like me) to target W8 and get better support across devices, but that is a problem for WP7 owners yes?"

          Not really, if you get better support on w8 then if I upgrade at the end of my contract I will get a better more efficient application, in the mean time I have your last applications on my phone, and as long as you weren't rude enough to deliver it so totally crippled it just doesn't work then I can stick to it. I have an out of date firefox on my home PC, I guess that there are bugs and problems with it that later versions have cured, but it works for me and there is really no point in upgrading it.

          "No I don't think that iOS6 makes the iPhone 4 obsolescent as again, you will know very well that Apple release it free of charge to owners of iPhone 4, iPhone 4S etc."

          But you have to be tech enough to install it, Apple don't guarantee that, and in the long term we saw what happened to Microsoft and even Symbian when they spent a lot of time and effort maintaining backwards compatibility so the OS would run on older kit. The OS in both cases has become less optimal. The same will ok if Apple never move forward.

          "Apple, for all there supposed faults, don't orphan off recently released hardware, so while the current flagship Lumia 900 sitting in shops (not being sold) won't get W8, previous generations of iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch will all get an upgrade to iOS6."

          Again a prediction based on no fact. It is probable but not guaranteed. It is quite possible that the new iPhone, the new iOS and apps might require a new hardware button, new hardware component or a higher spec processor before it will run at a sensible pace (or at all)... we can wait but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and not basing much of your argument on fact.

  27. Encorespod
    Stop

    Never ever, EVER again

    My phone history:

    Never liked mobile devices, I didn't see the point in having an iPaq or suchlike without a data connection so I stayed out of the way until the iPaq 6340 came along, it was a brick but it finally rolled data a phone and a handheld computer into one. And so I became trapped in windows mobile, or pocket pc as it was known then.

    The user experience was terrible of course, everything had to be done with a stylus as no-one had given much thought to a touch interface beyond replacing a mouse cursor with a pointy stick. Appart from that it was okay, I could telnet from it, even remote desktop if you didn't mind the tiny screen, it was useful.

    When it came time to get a new phone I went for a HTC P3600 and flashed it to turn on the GPS so it is probably my own fault that the thing kept cooking lipo batteries. The camera was terrible and Windows was getting ever more annoying, during the life of the handset iphones and android devices started to evolve.

    I was presented with a choice, I had decided whatever I got was going to be a Samsung, all the Samsung handsets I had played with had good cameras and build quality. They knew how to build a solid phone, cutting edge gadgetry was no longer my primary concern. I found two models that looked worthy, one was android, on was windows mobile. I opted for the windy phone because I had little homebrew apps I wanted to keep using, little did I realise that the android marketplace would explode so rapidly.

    That was my big mistake, from the word go I found the latest windows mobile to have all the annoyances of the old version plus a few more, it was slow, battery hungry and even basic features like text messaging would sometimes completely stop working for no apparent reason. Samsung had tried to polish the turd by adding UI tweaks but every time I wanted to go a little deeper than making a phone call or viewing a webpage, old style pocket pc dialogs would appear forcing me to reach for a stylus.

    Towards the end of its life I actually got so annoyed with it that I partitioned the internal storage up and installed android on it.

    I've just bought a new device and I didn't even have to think about the operating system, I wanted android. It was designed to be used on smaller, touchscreen devices and more importantly it just works for me, seemlessly. Since using android I've not once had to think "I better reboot it just in case someone is trying to txt me and its stopped receiving messages again." as I did under the malformed offspring of Windows CE.

    I don't care how good the camera is, I wouldn't touch this phone because it runs Windows. I don't care if it makes me coffee in the morning and gives me oral sex at night whilst checking my email at the same time, its Windows. It will be slow, unresponsive, badly thought out and given the rise of android and ios there will be absolutely no support from developers.

    Now obviously I haven't even played with the handset so you can flame me for making these assumptions but that is EXACTLY the point. From previous experience, these are the assumptions I and everyone else who has ever used a windows phone will make when they see the word Windows.

    Its too late for Microsoft, they shot themselves in the foot when they could have got a foot in the door. The only people who will buy this handset are those who don't get a choice or aren't technical enough to know better.

    And those poor souls will do exactly the same as I did when they become annoyed by the usual Windows bugs and an inability to play <LATEST HOT GAME> with their friends because the developers didn't do a version for windows.

    Give it up MS, the only way people are going to buy your phones in this cloudy age is if you can come up with something really, REALLY special. Something with the trendiness of an iGadget, the application support of a Droid and the reliability of the can opener on my swiss army knife.

    I think we all know, they just can't.

    1. Schultz

      Re: Never ever, EVER again

      Lucky that only so few MS phones sold in the past. Most potential customers out there merely have nightmares based on computer operating systems.

    2. Robert E A Harvey

      Re: Never ever, EVER again

      I had a 6340 as a replacement for my failed and much missed palm V. I grew to quite like the idea of a phone, PDA, camera, and music player all in one.

      The problem was the damn thing didn't work. I had to reboot it several times a day, cold boot it a couple of times a week, and could not depend on it ringing when someone wanted to talk to me, or knowing where my contact list was when I wanted to talk to someone else. Even the idea of syncing with the supplied copy of outlook was beyond it.

      So yes. Not ever again. Once bitten twice shy.

    3. Dave 15

      Re: Never ever, EVER again

      mmm, thats like saying you won't buy a new TV because the old one had valves and took a long time to warm up.

      Now the current windows phones are battery hungry, but actually so are the iPhones and Androids. If you want decent power performance go for Symbian.

      As for the UI, I'm currently using an Android and I have had an iPhone in the past, both have major annoyances. I HATE ALL these bloody touch screen phones, I want to text, dial, use the phone when I am walking, on a bus, a train etc. I can't, whether driven by my imperial sized finger or a stylus they are all - and I repeat ALL bloody useless unless you are sat motionless at a desk - this is crap for a mobile device. Give me proper buttons ANY day - and a phone with a 'flip' that covers the buttons and protects the screen while it is in my pocket - especially one that will 'answer the call' when I open it and hang up again when I close it - no need for strange red and green buttons or 'lock sequences' or 'slide to unlocks' or any of that crud. A proper phone has buttons. Everything else is just crap.

  28. Shonko Kid
    FAIL

    Multitasking...

    "...while there was an observable lag it was no more than three seconds. Multitasking benefits greatly from this new kernel."

    WTF?!? This is 2012! How can you possibly say it's an improvement, when it's still so obviously far behind the 90s technology they ditched to jump on the good ship Redmond?

    All this says to me is that they still haven't yet managed to develop an OS suitable to run on a mobile device. And the chances of them figuring it out are 0.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Multitasking...

      Yeah, until you got to all the java crap that people were punting to run on S60, starting the JVM up on my Communicator 9000 seemed to take an age, and ate like 45m of the meager memory in the process :(

      (Native apps were a little better, but still sluggish, and the UI was glacial)

      Old versions of EPOC (pre-Symbian, Psion stylee), on the other hand.. Devices that ran that were super-efficient and quick running on damp string and rumours <3

  29. the-it-slayer

    Too late to the party still?

    If Nokia had brought out phones with their own OS like this 3 years ago, they'd have a fighting chancing against the benchmarks of smartphones (iPhone/Android Clone). With any lack of gain technologily wise, it's quite an idle release (but to be fair, the design apart from it's thickness is quite an eye catcher over any Android clone). I might reconsider my position to upgrade to the iPhone 5 in March and give WinMo 8 a chance depending on what other handsets around. I've always had a soft spot for Nokia and it's sad to see they're struggling to be what they were in the late 90s early 00s.

  30. Avatar of They
    Thumb Down

    Eh?

    Your pictures still look to show the god awful 'landscape in portrait' design, where you can see half images because it requires you to slide it sideways.

    Still no background or modifying for the user, still stuck with hubs and tiles or bricks or whatever windows call them nowadays in the "not-metro" world.

    I always said I would steer clear of Nokia after the N900 and how they left people high and dry, but winpho 8 doesn't seem like something I should look at. No SD card? Really?

    1. The Serpent

      Re: Eh?

      The N900 isn't high and dry. Nokia gave up on it, but others haven't. I got an OS update only this morning. But I understand your lack of motivation in moving to what may yet turn out to be abandonware in a relatively short time.

  31. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Nice review

    That suggests that it might be worth looking at these phones when the come out. The imaging stuff sounds nice but not enough to sell a phone: we've been used to crappy pictures in low-light levels for years.

  32. Thomas 4
    IT Angle

    A request

    Is there any chance we could have an in depth comparison of the differences between Windows 7 and Windows 8? Or are there not really any major changes?

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: A request

      1.142857143 is quite a difference!

  33. MJI Silver badge

    Hmm

    Minders, how tempting was it to wallop one?

    One of the phones to me just had loads of red squares not obvious what they were.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft caught red-handed faking the PureView ad

    Now the videos are unlisted on Youtube.

    Nokia has also issued a full apology.

    "Things are about to change"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moJ9T5pgKkA

    "PureView the next innovation"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimDfEIEiu0

    1. h4rm0ny

      Re: Microsoft caught red-handed faking the PureView ad

      Uh, that's Nokia, not Microsoft.

      If you're interested, a proper video of a non-OIS camera and the Nokia one, both mounted on the same rig and carried by someone walking, is here:

      Nokia OIS

      Looks like a nice feature.

    2. Dave 15

      Re: Microsoft caught red-handed faking the PureView ad

      Proper pureview is the 808, no faking needed with that, although the image (and sound) quality is so damned good you will have trouble believing it unless you actually have done it yourself.

  35. Teethgrinder
    IT Angle

    Will it do USB mass storage? If not it fails at the first hurdle for me.

    N9 FTW!!!

  36. spidercrab
    FAIL

    Nokia's big last chance blown

    This will be looked back on as the last chance that Nokia got. Microsoft's last big chance too IMO. They had everything to gain by wooing us with must have features and competition stopping must haves. They have lost the plot - both of them and show no signs of doing what they need to do.

    They introduced wireless charging and then fitted a huge battery! With wireless chargers in place in your home, car, office, etc, you can use a smaller battery and make a smaller lighter phone!

    They have also assumed wrongly that the camera is the killer feature.

    Even if they knocked this out for £100 with Android, it still wouldn't be competitive.

    1. Psyx
      Thumb Down

      Re: Nokia's big last chance blown

      "Microsoft's last big chance too IMO. "

      I think they make more on a release of Office than the have done with every phone release ever. So, I doubt it.

      "They introduced wireless charging and then fitted a huge battery! With wireless chargers in place in your home, car, office, etc, you can use a smaller battery and make a smaller lighter phone!"

      Or you can have a phone that you can use as a camera for a weekend away. Which is a win. I like the idea of actually being able to go somewhere on a trip and actually being able to USE my phone for something other than essentials.

      "They have also assumed wrongly that the camera is the killer feature."

      It is. If you want a good camera. Not everyone has your priorities.

      The compact camera market is dead, thanks to smartphones. Yet their cameras are poor. The only reason compact cameras still sell at all is because of their better quality images. This is an attempt to steal that market-section.

      "Even if they knocked this out for £100 with Android, it still wouldn't be competitive."

      That's just a little ridiculous. I'm a tight-wad, and even I'd *gladly* pay £100 for this toy.

      1. Dave 15

        Re: Nokia's big last chance blown

        "The compact camera market is dead, thanks to smartphones. Yet their cameras are poor. The only reason compact cameras still sell at all is because of their better quality images. This is an attempt to steal that market-section."

        Smartphone cameras are certainly not universally poor - the N8 and the 808 both feature blow your mind cameras - and this is not a megapixel war, the lens, the software corrections, zooming, stabilization (yes no need to fake it with the 808), face recognition, even touch focus on the 808 (you point on the screen to tell the camera what part of the picture should be the focus). In fact the compact cameras rarely have all the feature set you get on the smartphone

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nokia's big last chance blown

      Dunno, for £100, with basic Android and no crapware, I would snap it up like it generated cake from thin air.

    3. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Nokia's big last chance blown

      Camera is the killer feature for me. Plus the display.

  37. spidercrab
    FAIL

    ...and the camera Advert was faked!

    Nokia apologises for 'faked' Lumia smartphone advert - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19499879

  38. Psyx
    Go

    Good article Andrew.

    See: I like you when you stick to tech!

  39. Lallabalalla
    FAIL

    A CENTIMETER THICK? 175 GRAMS????

    thats a friggin laptop, mate

    1. h4rm0ny

      Re: A CENTIMETER THICK? 175 GRAMS????

      You must have a very small lap.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it ran maemo

    I'd consider it

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If it ran maemo

      you've never used the lumia 920 and you've never used a maemo phone, so w t f ?

      1. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: If it ran maemo

        wtf is maemo?

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    lost me at 3 seconds

    A 3 second delay when moving around the UI in a certain way? Sorry, not acceptable in a brand-new phone in 2012.

  42. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Slightly off topic...but

    Can it make phone calls?

    There doesn't seem to be any mention of that.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A Suffusion of Yellow

    Is there an I-ching app?

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "There are two party tricks you can do with the 920....The other is to start taking a video while shaking the camera"

    Did the optical image stabilization work, or is it fake like the ad?

    http://www.slashgear.com/nokias-pureview-ad-may-not-be-entirely-honest-05246171/

    1. B4PJS

      Actual real life video from the launch day kicking about somewhere where you actually see the Nokia rep shaking the camera about with and without stabiliisation. Works really well :-)

  45. John Moppett

    Different ecosystems?

    Seems that Nokia has one big advantage. If you have an iPhone, chances are you will have a PC, rather than a Mac. If you go android there are, currently, no android computers. So, if you want a phone, tablet and lap/desktop, without having to learn multiple OSs, and working out how to integrate them, Windows seems to be a good way to go!

  46. NemoWho
    Black Helicopters

    Unless Mary Jo Foley is a liar..

    She was at a Nokia event on September 5 in New York. She said they agreed to literally place the 920 in her palm, providing she did not attempt to touch, flip, fiddle, or otherwise try to get a realistic view of the phone. She was basically able to ascertain its weight, end of story.

    Twitter isn't completely making this behavior up. It's the physical equivalent of not releasing the Win8 Phone SDK. Because, then, a developer might SEE A FEATURE of the phone. And then, of course, the universe would implode in on itself.

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