What Tenenbaum needs to do.
Tenenbaum needs to sue Nesson for malpractice.
Joel Tenenbaum has lost his request for a mistrial in his long-running case against the music industry over sharing music and now faces financial ruin. The Massachusetts court declined his request for a mistrial and confirmed he will have to pay $675,000 in fines after being found guilty of sharing 30 songs on the Kazaa …
There is a good chance that after November 6, 2012, the US will fade into economic and political obscurity and the rest of the world will finally start to ignore the stupid tripe the US courts and lawmakers are puking out.
Actually, that's going to happen regardless of who wins because we have stopped preferring to hear the truth instead of pleasant platitudes. Politicians who try to tell us the truth simply don't get elected, it is far too bleak...
No. It doesn't fit. I think if oreo raided my chocolate biscuit cupboard and demanded 22,500 each (top and bottom layer plus cream layer) for those biscuits that i made and gave away to my friends then we are closer to an analogy.
In said case i would do a big turd and force feed it to their lawyers, stuffed inside an oreo (as the cream layer).
The statutory damages date from when the only way to copy a large quantity of music involved large amounts of machinery. So you'd only be copying large amounts of music illicitly if you were intending charging for it, to pay for said machinery.
In which case, the level of the fines seems right - it's aimed at deterring the professional copyright infringer.
Now, fast forward a few years, and all of a sudden, you can distribute thousands of copies of a song just by leaving Napster running overnight.
The technology moved on. The statutes, haven't.
This is mostly nonsense. The big fines are a new thing, from the "Copyright Damages Improvement Act" (who is it improving it for? GUESS). This bill was bought by the music industry specifically to go after individuals, it's got nothing to do with large bootleggers. Every once in a while the music industry manages to fleece the government to treat one of those guys like a terrorist though. Seriously - sometimes homeland security goes and busts down the doors of some dickhead making bootleg CDs.
More detail on this stupid law here: http://www.techlawjournal.com/cong106/copyright/Default.htm
For an outstandingly entertaining treatment of the same material, where you wish the legal stuff was the science fiction, pick up Rob Reid's book "Year Zero".
As far as I can see, the Copyright Damages Improvement Act was introduced in May 1999; that means that it actually pre-dates Napster (June 1999.) What file sharing services were large enough to be on the music industry's radar then?
And while that Act did increase the fines, they were already quite hefty - fines went from $500 to $20,000 per infringement to $750 to $30,000, and the maximum fine from $100,000 to $300,000.
So there were already large fines before that Act, though admittedly they were increased drastically. Can you provide any citations that this was aimed at individuals?
Hang on, I'm confused, according to Pet Peeve's link about the Copyright Damages Improvement Act
HR 1761 RH also addresses the dereliction of the U.S. Sentencing Commission by setting a deadline for acting. However, it also addresses the content of the guidelines. They must be based upon the "retail price" and "quantity" of the infringed items. This is designed to prevent someone who pirates products that sell for $10,000, and then resells them for $50, from being sentenced as a petty thief.
Why dose't this also apply to the copyright mafiaa???? one rule for the mafiaa and one rule for the downloader, this seems to break every concept of natural justice, surely there is basis for an appeal there, I thought that every one was equal before the law????
If I were to share a track that I bought for 99 cents the mafiaa can say, "no it's worth $22,500", presumably the copyright mafiaa will also apply this to the 77% of music on itunes (2008 figures, 10M tracks out of 13M) that have never been sold thereby confirming that the economic value of such muzak is in fact zero. <rant> Presumably a significant number of then are simon cowell's failed ex-x-factor karaoke signers. </rant>
The biggest treat to the music industry is not piracy, it's the music industry itself.
That's the point! The artists won't get a penny! Even in the unlikely event the money somehow gets paid.
Recording Ass. of America and the other Soprano's (Lawyers, etc,) are laughing all the way to the bank!
"Even in the unlikely event the money somehow gets paid. Recording Ass. of America and the other Soprano's (Lawyers, etc,) are laughing all the way to the bank!"
Do you see a little bit of a contradiction there, between the "unlikely event the money gets paid" and "laughing all the way to the bank"?
Well, even if you don't it\'s there all the same.
I haven't bought any music new since the mid 90s when Sony decided it was illegal for me to copy a CD I owned to a minidisc player I owned, for my own use.
I never buy downloads and I only buy CDs in charity stores, garage sales or swap with friends - so not a penny goes to the record industry. Of course it also means not a penny ever goes to the artist either - but that's also the RIAA's policy !
Where did you get the crazy idea that the music industry earns nothing from live performances? It's the single most profitable thing they do, and the artists still get screwed just like always.
Now, if you're talking about some random band going to a bar to play, that's fine, but a promoted concert? Total money factory for the recording industry. It's their only major area of revenue growth right now, which is why concerts are so stupidly expensive.
The recording industry adds little if any value to live performances. Musicians simply don't have to sign stupid contracts which oblige them to promote sales of recorded music that way, and have little reason to share proceeds of live performances with the recording industry. They will have enough genuine contributors to share the proceeds with including live concert promoters, official ticket vendors, PA hire, road crews, venue operators etc.
He's just lucky that there wasn't anything in the statute about boiling in oil.
Clearly this judge is asleep at the switch and is just rubber stamping any crazy penalty that they come up with.
"It could be worse" is not a suitable response to the question of "is it just" or "is it even legal"?
The only winners in case are again.....the lawyers.
The amount is just stupid. There is no way this man can earn enough to pay this and still hope to have enough to live on.
The only viable solution for him is to declare bankruptcy and start from square one.
Sometimes the "Justice" system is backasswards. If this man commits a crime and goes to jail....He will get free housing, meals, medical, and access to a college education. In today economy...
As other have stated...he has to pay this.
However, he can submit accounts against this, which will fall in his favour, and would favour him more if he was bankrupt, unemployed and with children.
Negotiated repayment at $2-3 per week for rest of his life? Entirely - and absurdly - possible.
"The only winners in case are again.....the lawyers."
That's debatable. What is not debatable is that there is a very obvious *loser* in this case, and that is Joel Tenenbaum. And that's altogether appropriate.
Here's a short synopsis of Tenenbaum's behavior, entitled "Joel Tenenbaum willfully infringed plaintiffs’ copyrights, lied, destroyed evidence and tried to shift the blame to a foster child living in his family’s home, his sisters, a family house guest, and burglars" (I'll paste the link at the end of this post.) Additionally, as pointed out in the article, even after receiving warnings from Sony, he continued downloading until the lawsuits were actually filed. From the Huffington Post: "During the trial, Tenenbaum admitted he downloaded and shared hundreds of songs". He'd been doing this for years.
But look at that again: "Joel Tenenbaum tried to shift the blame to a foster child living in his family’s home". Some kid who needs a foster home gets the blame for Tenenbaum's downloading. In fact, that should be made part of his name: Joel "Blame The Foster Child" Tenenbaum.
It is only fitting that Joel Tenenbaum be the loser - in this lawsuit and in life too..
Here's the quote from the judge's decision: "When he was confronted at trial with his attempts to shift blame for his actions to others – including a foster child living in his family’s home, his sisters, a family house guest, and burglars – Tenenbaum finally admitted responsibility'" available here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/103737792/Sony-BMG-v-Tenenbaum-Order-August-23-2012
Here's the link: http://vrritti.com/2012/08/25/joel-tenenbaum-willfully-infringed-plaintiffs-copyrights-lied-destroyed-evidence-and-tried-to-shift-the-blame-to-a-foster-child-living-in-his-familys-home-his-sisters-a-family-ho/
Seems always to judge the opposite way to logic and rational thinking. Maybe Alzeimers, Dementia or a spell in a "Home for the Bewildered' is a requirement for the post....Or, being appointed by G.W.Bush, which has all the necessary qualities previously mentioned nicely parcelled together.
Judge Rya Weickert Zobel:
" On January 25, 1979, Zobel was nominated by President Jimmy Carter to a new seat on the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts created by 92 Stat. 1629. She was confirmed by the United States Senate on March 21, 1979, and received her commission on March 23, 1979. Among her judicial duties, she was director of the Federal Judicial Center from 1995 to 1999." (from Wikipedia)
What this has to do with G. W. Bush is a mystery, the solution to which is known only to, well, to no one, I guess..
Yeah, this is total crap. Ruin a guys life over a few songs? He wasn't selling them. WTF is the problem with the judge and more importantly the jury? The large ammounts are there for when there is a major case of stealing and selling, not something like this. What a load. Screw the music industry. Hope they fall off the face of the planet.
i am not well up on US law being from the UK, is this a state or federal ruling? As from watching 'cops' sytle US shows i know that some ruling in one state don't apply in others. And if this is one of those cases i would just cut my losses and get the hell out of Massachusetts. If its a federal ruling so would apply in every state then i suggest he head to Mexico.
Cases like this hardly give up the RIAA in a good light though, he may have been distributing the song illegally but where do they come up with such stupid amounts. Surely the 500 hundred dollar fine he offered would be enough of a deterant not to do it again.
One of the more idiosyncratic hold overs in south carolina law from the days of indian raids and red coats demanding money, there is no legal mechinism for collecting debts in South Carolina. This makes it a haven for men who don't want to pay child support. I would assume this would work to keep the record companies at bay.
It would seem to me that if you really think this guy got a raw deal and you have done something similar, you could easily look him up,and send him $10 to show your support for his cause. The record companies might get the money or maybe he might be able to buy a house in south carolina. Either way you would feel better about your own odds.
My guess is that individuals who find it easy to justify stealing music probably aren't real likely to help you out if you are the unlucky bastard who got caught. There are way too may free ways to get music legally (spotify, pandora, internet radio...) to make this a "good" idea.
What do you say internet citizens?
"In Friday's ruling, US District Court Judge Rya W. Zobel told Tenenbaum that the award against him was not excessive and he should be thankful the RIAA didn’t get more."
In what world do these judges live in that $675000 isnt deemed excessive?
And he should be thankful?, wtf is wrong with these people?
He probably wouldnt have bought the tracks anyway, and neither would anyone sharing with him so the record companies have lost squit from his filesharing, but he has probably lost a huge quality of life by this ridiculous fine.
And yes, 1 pirated copy does not represent 1 lost sale or indeed 1 lost anything as noones being deprived of anything physical.
Nick a cd from a highstreet shop (actually depriving someone of an object) gets you a reasonable fine and caution, so how can this massive fine in any way be fair?
"When $675000 is about 1 months "Donation" from the RIAA for your re-election fund?"
Federal judges are appointed to their positions for life. Removing a federal judge is a "very big deal".
Read about it here, on the off-chance that you want to be just a little bit less ignorant than you are now:
.... that an easy way for defence lawyers to win these cases for file sharers is to get the RIAA/MPAA/BPI to provide a full paper trail to show monies recovered have actually made it to an artist.
There are many many ways to show up the restrictions listed on music and movies as being totally daft. Hell, i'm bored so lets think of some crap ones based on the notes on one of my fully paid for cd's.
Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance or broadcasting of this recording prohibited.
Copying - How many people directly link their pc optical drive to their soundcard anymore? Not many so they all infringe on copying on a pedantic level if you consider what applications like iTunes, Windows Media player and so on do.
Hiring - Hang on, it's my fault if the local Blockbuster hires me a copy of something not intended for hire?
Lending - 'Hi mate, any chance of borrowing that cd so I can check it out before buying it?' - 'No, i'm not allowed to'
Public performance - Means that the Saxo VTR owners that parade up and down Cleethorpes seafront every weekend are totally screwed.
Broadcasting - Better turn off all of your wireless streaming devices.
Yes I know they are all fairly weak and quite stupid but unless you have spent your life listening to your purchases in your own home through headphones with no one else present, then you have violated one of the above conditions. The industry model is what is at fault, not the user.
This was a line in a Heinlein novel, referring to part of the history of an alternate Earth. Doesn't sound like a bad idea though. I wish there was a way to get everyone to realize what fecal matter the RIAA truly is, and never give big business that exploits artists and fans alike another penny.
"The difference is, in Heinlein's novel, it was an actual event that wasn't in the history books and that no one talked about. It vastly improved society though..."
That's the beauty of fiction: you can write any kind of world you want and make it look good.
Denial isn't the answer. 99.8% of the world doesn't pirate. Those who can't live by the laws of society deserve heavy fines and prison time. Those who own copyrights are not the criminals. Hating copyright holders isn't going to change reality. Those who violate copyright laws are the criminals regardless if they steal music, software or other protected art.
There is no proof of any kind. the RIAA is a CRIMINAL organisation no one can trust anything they say, a log, a list of RANDOM IP address, the easiest thing in to world to manipulate or create from thin air.
The RIAA just destroyed the life of another innocent person. that is why the RIAA must be destroyed AT ALL COST.
Denial will set you free from your freedom for many years.
This grad student has had his day in court TWICE and lost BOTH times. If you're feeling lucky you two can have your day in court. Then you too can pay $20+K per copy or go to prison for ten years.
One way or the other you're going to learn that piracy will not be tolerated. You can hate the RIAA, the judicial system or yourself but you're still going to be punished for your crimes. If you're dumb enough to pirate then you are dumb enough to pay dearly.
This is reality 101.
Piracy (which includes threats, weapons, hijack, murder, rape, theft) <> copyright infrigement (which includes none of these). 100 times.
Now of course, the justice system is keener to protect corporate assets than citizens' assets or life, hence the comparatively stiffer sentences.
As we live in a theoretical democracy and not a monarchy run by the recording industry, it is quite possible the entire music / film copyright aparatus could be dismantled or severely nerfed if it becomes too inconvenient for most people. It is on the way to becoming too inconvenient
Play your little legal corruption ball too hard and eventually enough people will get irritated enough and turn up to the fight with a demolition crane and 10 ton concrete ball
Don't blame the judge, the jury or the supreme court. Congress passed this law, and only congress can fix it.
When you stop to consider how much the music and recording industries contribute to campaigns, and how little your typical file sharer contributes ... I wouldn't hold my breath.
The only thing that needs to be fixed is that mandatory jail time be included for piracy of (10) or more copyright protected items/songs/software, etc. The $650K fine is good and appropriate and should be the basis for all future fines for piracy. I suppose they could give the pirates a second option of being hung by their thumbs for 2-3 months.
1. He broke the law. Stupid law? Maybe. Still the law, and he knew it.
2. After he got nicked, he showed stupidity (refusing to settle), cowardice (it wasn't me!), and arrogance (c.f. Nesson).
3. Bankruptcies happen. It's not terminal. Properly handled, this could be a great career starter.
4. The court did precisely what it was supposed to do: it considered whether the law had been correctly applied, and made a ruling.
Don't like the law? Change it. Go out and do something useful rather than sitting there like a whining child caught with your hands in the cookie jar. Campaign for legal reform. Write letters (yeah, those) to your congressman. Buy (as some here honorably do) music through other channels. Make some music of your own -- invest some major effort into creating yourself.
This wholesale "sharing" puts no money into the hands of artists. The deal with the RIAA sucks, but it's where the law got us. As a creative, I'm thrilled that this has happened, because it just might galvanise one or two people into thinking and acting.
Here's something that would have gone miles toward establishing Tenenbaum's moral credentials: if Nesson had produced one -- just ONE -- street busker to come forward and say, "Yeah -- I know that kid. He always puts a couple of bucks into my hat."
You want to get worked up about something real? Look at the number of bankruptcies caused by medical expenses.
The problem isn't that he broke the law. Yeah, he surely did. The problem is the outrageous damages and the way he was made an example of. You want to punish him? Sony was willing to settle for a few thousand at one point. That was the original and yet still likely inflated value of what damages they thought they were entitled to. Charge him that. Sony's lawyers are on retainer and don't need to be paid by him. His own lawyer failed and doesn't deserve to be paid, in my opinion. Maybe charge him court costs for wasting the public's time.
Re:"Just stop buying recorded music". Done and done. But, the assholes at the record companies claim sales are dropping ONLY because of piracy, not because they release loads of drivel, and people don't want to buy CDs from these dinosaurs. And the talking heads on the mainstream media parrot that line, ignoring numerous studies showing this is simply not true.
Anyway, simple solution -- so $675,000 is supposedly not excessive. Well, following this logic, surely a 22,500 year term to pay off those fines is entirely reasonable.
AC, you keep banging the drum for Prison time in addition to ungodly fines for what amounts to a civil offense. If we were to imprison the people who commit various civil infringements the US would have, hands-down, the highest per-capita imprisonment rate in the world. We're not too far off as is.
At that point the US population would be in two parts: Prisoners and prison guards. There would not be enough population to do anything else.
In summation, you are either a paid shill (and a bad one at that), or a jackass. Please get off of these forums, you are lowering the IQ level here.
Every citizen of the United States of America is guaranteed, constitutionally, all the justice one can afford. Sadly, the average citizen can afford very little. Hence, studies show that 95% of all felony convictions in the U.S. are the result of plea bargains. 'Tis a pity the RIAA wasn't willing to bargain in this case.
MUST be destroyed at all cost and those behind this extremly dangerous international criminal organisation must be executed PUBLUCLY in the most painfull way possible......
The RIAA is the enemy of every single human on this planet and this verdict proves that the USA justice system is broken beoynd repair and the 2 judge involved need to have hits put on them..... they are low level scumbag.
"The RIAA MUST be destroyed at all cost and those behind this extremly dangerous international criminal organisation must be executed PUBLUCLY in the most painfull way possible...... The RIAA is the enemy of every single human on this planet and this verdict proves that the USA justice system is broken beoynd repair and the 2 judge involved need to have hits put on them..... they are low level scumbag."
It's Mectron... again. Now there's someone with a *real* sense of entitlement.
Anyone who blames the copyright holders or laws for piracy is in deep denial and on incredible meds... It's time for a reality check as courts will continue to hand out stiff fines for piracy. In addition the U.S. and other countries are considering making piracy a felony with mandatory prison time. The pirates have been warned so they have no excuse when they are prosecuted for their crimes. Whining because you got caught don't change reality.
Then it is time for a reality check ON your reality check. Why is the deprivation of virtual profits (which can't reliably be proven to have come in any event) warrant the same level of severity as, say, Grand Theft Auto (which does involve the loss of actual property)? It's like throwing away a guy for ten years for a pouch of marijuana (which is controversial in its own right). If record companies really wanted to stop piracy, they'd liquidate all their assets and indenture them as lifelong slaves. Guaranteed restitution, then. Instead of tackling the symptoms, why don't the record companies look to the cause of the problem and try to do something about it? Or is it truly against their nature? Their approach is a lot like prohibition. All it does is raise the Forbidden Fruit effect; meanwhile piracy habits go back to fundamental human nature (maximum result for minimum effort). Just as haters gonna hate, pirates gonna pirate.
"meanwhile piracy habits go back to fundamental human nature (maximum result for minimum effort). Just as haters gonna hate, pirates gonna pirate."
Just as haters gonna hate, pirates gonna pirate, muggers gonna mug, serial killers gonna serial kill, rapists gonna rape, burglars gonna burgle, robbers gonna rob, child molesters gonna child molest, spouse-abusers gonna spouse abuse, shoplifters gonna shoplift, tax cheats gonna cheat on their taxes, drunken drivers gonna drive drunk.... There are no laws and never will be any laws that will succeed in eradicating all of these things. So which ones should therefore be legalized?
Joel "Blame The Foster Child" Tenenbaum got caught, he was warned, he continued, he was told there would be a lawsuit, he continued, he lied, and lied some more, and lied some more, he destroyed evidence, and he got a lawyer whose main interest was in publicizing an ideological agenda as opposed to acting in his (Tenenbaum's) best interest.......
That he got caught in the first place was bad luck. Everything after that is his own fault. He should have settled for $3500 and been done with it. And instead of getting a real lawyer, he gets Nesson - and by attempting to wiggle out of it entirely, he only worsened his situation - by orders of magnitude.
Everyone once in a while you have to just say, Well, I got caught and I give up. And the longer it takes to get to that point, the worse the final outcome is going to be.
I know it's fashionable to stir up freetards hate against Sony, but they are small players in this. Warner are the biggest claimants, so why no mention of them? (we all know the reason... Warner are an American company, best defect the damage to foreign companies so as not to affect American jobs).
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