back to article Nokia CEO: No shift from Windows Phone

Nokia's CEO has insisted the Finnish phone giant's future lies with Windows Phone and no other OS. "In today's war [between] Android, Apple and Windows, we are very clear, we are fighting that with the Windows phone," company chief Stephen Elop told reporters in Oslo. "I don't think about rewinding the clock and thinking …

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  1. James 51 Silver badge
    FAIL

    Wow. Looks like Elop is going to settle for being a small fish in a small pond.

    1. Spearchucker Jones
      Go

      Maybe. Shared WinRT kernel, Drive and Pureview might make that small pond the pond I want to be in...

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Happy

        Re:..the pond I want to be in...

        Careful- there are probably Turtles in there...

      2. James 51 Silver badge

        Pureview

        by Pureview do you mean the 808?

        1. hazydave

          Re: Pureview

          PureView is Nokia's name for their 41Mpixel sensor technology. The 808 is the first device to feature this.

      3. Manu T

        No Thanks!

        I've been in their WP7-pool and it sucks. The supposed to be quality Nokia devices are in reality fragile cheap crappy compal phones with crappy pentile screens. And Nokia's after sales service is plain rubbish as I had to discover first hand!

        Proof here (including the phone conversations I had with Nokia Care): http://antinokia.freewebspace.com/

        (you need to learn Dutch though as all this happened in Belgium)

        And then there's the loss of most features that even a bloody feature phone had (including their own). Like no phone-call recording, no proper multitasking, no full bluetooth transfers, horrible tiny feeble speakers, no notification light etc...

        And then they declare Symbian (which has ALL the features that WP hasn't got) "a burning platform" and what happens. 6 months after I had this POS Lumia 800, Microsoft declare WP7 dead. Sure we get one a last insignificant cosmetic upgrade(WP7.8) but that won't solve the crippled BT-transfer, crippled multitasking, the call-recording... all we get is more colours for the fucking tiles! The worst is that this was declared when that bloody POS was in repair for the second time! I didn't even bother to retrieve it!

        Elop You SUCK. You single handedly destroyed the biggest handset maker in the world. With premature (bad) declarations, incompetence and greed. EVERYBODY is TELLING NOT to persue Windows Phone, to diversify into Android and to keep Symbian alive (if you haven't got anything else). In fact the sales figures SHOW that Meego was liked by the industry AND that it WAS a capable weapon against iOS and Android (WITH all the features that the older more advanced Symbian devices have, like proper multitasking, call-recording, full BT transfer) and what do you do! You stubbornly NEGLECT to open your fucking eyes!

        Alone for such an incompetence alone your company DESERVES to go down. And I will PERSONALLY help in doing that!

        Go with Windows Phone and die!

        1. asdf Silver badge
          FAIL

          >Elop You SUCK. You single handedly destroyed the biggest handset maker in the world.

          Yes he does suck but Nokia's fate was sealed by incompetent Finish management long before he showed up (OVI lmao anyone). He just made it official there would be no comeback.

          1. RAMChYLD
            Mushroom

            No, OVI was competent

            At least their store was available in Malaysia, sold music and videos in Malaysia, and N-Gage is open to Malaysians. Microsoft's problems with Malaysia that they won't launch Xbox Live and Games for Windows Live (and and utterly limited app store) are unjustified.

            Someone please just boot Elop out of Nokia. I will never buy another Nokia phone as long as he's CEO.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Nokia's fate was sealed by incompetent Finish management

            Managment can be replaced with more competent people without destroying the lives of 10000 employees!

      4. hazydave

        Pureview is an inherent niche...

        Assuming Microsoft actually allows the PureView camera on a Windows 8 device, it'll drive some sales. But phones made with this are way too thick... you're really talking about a CAMERA-phone. And even if this is the best phone camera on the market (which seems to be the case), it's still a phone camera. Anyone dedicated enough to photography to consider this might (as I do) simply keep a real camera around most of the time.

        The size won't change without some small revolution in optics. Pureview just skirts being diffraction limited on the Nokia 808, and that's with an 8mm, f2.4 lens. The best camera is the one you have with you, and it's great to see Nokia doing _something_ useful and upping the ante on cameras in such a bold way, as they crash and burn on Windows Phone. But this isn't going to save them.

        1. Manu T

          Re: Pureview is an inherent niche...

          "But this isn't going to save them."

          Because they fucked up the 808. They ditched all the good stuff from the N8 to create this plastic blob.

          Gone is the gorgeous Aluminum body, Gone is the battery charging led, gone is the 2mm charging plug, micro-simm (there is NO other Symbian phone with micro-simm). MicroUSB SUCKS for charging as eventually the fragile connector WILL break.

          I would have bought the 808 if it looked more and feels more like the N8. As it is, they compromised too much and it looks butt-ugly. Not to mentioned that Nokia first said that the device would sell retall for 450 euro (ex. taxes) while it is far more expensive in reality. E.g. 450 + 21% VAT = 545 euro NOT 649 euro. I wouldn´t have hesitated for 549 but its a no go for 649.

    2. Bob Vistakin
      FAIL

      And a market share the size of Blamers todger on a cold day.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Bob

        Do please try to grow up a bit, there's a good chap.

        1. Bob Vistakin
          Holmes

          Re: @Bob

          Bill Gates to the rescue! His current endeavours are particularly relevant: "At the Reinvent the Toilet fair, hosted at its Seattle campus this week, designs included a lavatory that used microwave energy to turn poo into electricity." Since that's exactly what Nokia is now turning out under Flop, he's already halfway there:

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19271061

    3. N13L5
      Coffee/keyboard

      really Elop

      I really do dislike Apple and all their ridiculous shenanigans.

      I do not buy their stuff.

      But before I'd ever buy a WindPhone x.xx from Elop and Ballmer, I would stoop down and buy an iPhone.

      Microsoft had its chance and hung its customers out to dry by not fixing things for a decade, cause they thought they had the market sewn up. FUM$

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ye cannae change the laws of physics!

    Don't you guys understand, "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" Once you have passed the event horizon, you cannot turn back.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Kudos to them: they tried

      In a world where almost everyone else jumped on the Google train and launched black slabs with rounded corners that looked like iPhones, Nokia have dared to try something different, exciting, and frequently beautiful. I have to say, the Lumia 900 looks amazing, and the 'information at your fingertips' concept of WP7 defines what a smartphone is all about. Combined with the pile of cash Microsoft promised Nokia, it must have seemed like a stroke of genius.

      The problem is that Microsoft took way too long getting WP7 ready, and it was still only half-finished. Witness how WP8 will run on a completely different kernel, and how WP7 didn't get support for dual-core CPUs. And why are all the tiles on WP7 that horrible shade of blue as a default? Nokia are now at Microsoft's mercy with regard to OS updates, and the fact that they haven't coaxed an update to WP7's copy of Internet Explorer to make it actually reliable shows who's really in charge. I want them to carry on daring to be different, showing up Android's flaws (how bloated it is and the toll that takes on battery life when you need a quad-core processor to get it to run smoothly in particular), but this isn't going to work.

      1. ScissorHands
        Facepalm

        Re: Kudos to them: they tried

        No they didn't. To try would have been to continue with the N9 family and gradually migrate people away from Symbian.

        1. Manu T

          Re: Kudos to them: they tried

          Which was the first plan. It only took a bit long.

          But indeed the N9 showed that the wait was worth it!

          They've put their eggs in the basket of their biggest Nemesis. It used to be Symbain against Windows Mobile. Symbian won! And now in ONE (1) year they literally THREW it away! They are fucking assholes.

          They pushed thousands of employees into poverty. I hope Nokia dies! I hope that Elop gets BANNED from Finland He and HE alone destroyed Finlands biggest employer and Finlands ONLY economic stronghold. I hope that the day Nokia gets into receivership that ALL ex-Nokia employees SUE him for ALL he's got!

          They would get my vote and my support!

          1. JC_
            Thumb Down

            Re: Kudos to them: they tried

            I hope Nokia dies!

            This pretty much sums up the problem so many reg commentators have: they'd hope to see a company like Nokia die than be proven wrong. And it makes no sense, either: Elop is rich, really rich, so if Nokia does "die" then it'll only be his pride that hurts, but not as much as life hurts for Nokia employees.

            7 people voted voted this crap up. Not much rational discussion going on here, sadly.

            1. Manu T

              Re: Kudos to them: they tried

              "but not as much as life hurts for Nokia employees."

              Tell that to the 10000 whom are already on the unemployement lines.

              Nokia should have thought of them BEFORE getting this microsoft mole inside. To me it´s clear. The current (probably non finnish) shareholders want cash PRONTO and they don´t care about the products, what people want or their employees. For all they care Nokia sells their IP to a dummy corp, the factories to some anonymous chinese investor, dumbs all the workforce and get one big retirement bonus. Then THEY are rich while the former largest finnish employer pushes thousands of people into poverty.

              And when some disgrundled ex-employees DDOS-attack microsoft they´re probably labeled as "cyber-criminals" by El Reg.

              We´re doomed.

        2. Katie Saucey

          Re: Kudos to them: they tried

          From my experience (limited I admit) QT was OK, but was geared towards actual coders (god forbid!), as it was mainly for the (my) c/c++ crowd. MS killed the AppForge MSVS plugin (not more VB/.net etc), then Oracle picked up the corpse and shelved it, in my mind that was pretty much the nail in said coffin. I've been told NetBeans can be used if Java is your preference, but without usable IDEs (yes a small shot at NetBeans) and SDKs, what's a scrip kiddie to do?

      2. HamsterNet
        Thumb Down

        Re: Kudos to them: they tried

        Why have you tried an S3? Ze Wives runs for 2 full days between charges and that's without the energy saving mode on. My works iPhone 4s lasts 16 hours between charges.

      3. RAMChYLD
        Mushroom

        Re: Kudos to them: they tried

        No. The real problem with MS is that there's still no Zune, no Games for Windows Live, and no XBox Live in many parts of the world.

      4. hazydave

        Re: Kudos to them: they tried

        To you and me, it's a pile of cash. Microsoft is paying Nokia US$250 million per quarter, currently, to use Windows Phone. And offering Windows Phone isn't the issue... with Microsoft pretty much putting the whole company behind the move to mobile, you could choose a worse place to be in mobile. I would never even consider a Windows Phone, but it may have an audience. Eventually.

        The problem was Elop openly telling the world that Nokia Linux and, particularly, SymbianOS devices were going away ... nearly a year before Windows Phone devices from Nokia even shipped, and long before Windows Phone proved a viable replacement (it hasn't). To put this in context, while Microsoft paid Nokia US$250 million in 2Q2012 to use Windows Phone, Nokia lost US$1700 million, largely due to the SymbianOS business collapsing. Think about it... SymbianOS was over 60% of the smartphone business only a few years ago. Last quarter, it was 9%, and falling fast. And the latest version, "Belle"... actually not that bad. There was no reason for Nokia to kill this off.

        This is a phenomenally stupid way to run a company, and Elop has bested Adam Osborne and most of the other really infamous CEOs in the race for how to kill a company with a few stupid words. Product life in a company should be organic, not forced. Any company that arbitrarily kills a popular product deserves what they get. Your bottom line, and the duty to your shareholders, is to make money. Plenty of companies support multiple smartphone platforms. Look at #1, Samsung. They're the leader in Android, but they also do a great business in Asia on BadaOS, and they're even doing experiments with Windows Phone. This makes total sense if you're a hardware company... it's not as if each Android, Bada, or Windows Phone have to be designed from the ground up... the same core technology can be applied to all OS markets, even if the little details vary based on target cost and other issues (Windows Phone has feature restrictions not found in Android).

  3. Mark C Casey

    Slide..

    And so continues Nokia's slide into irrelevance.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Onward!

      To Oblivion

  4. gaz 7
    Mushroom

    Kudos to Elop for sticking to his plan, regardless of the fact that just about everyone else in the world thinks it is utter stupidity.

    Before anyone accuses me, I USED to be a nokia user, with alll the tablets from 770 to N900 and serveral symbian handsets. Now jumped to android as I hate Windows.

    Elopolypse - obviously

    1. JDX Gold badge

      I got a WP Nokia a few weeks ago - I think it's great. When you say "I hate Windows" do you mean you hate Windows desktop so you refused to even try a totally different OS because it had the same name, or that you tried and hated WP?

      1. Malcolm 1

        I'm quite likely to join the Nokia party later this year - getting remarkably hacked off with Android's general lagginess.

      2. Lee Dowling Silver badge

        Does it matter? Are you saying that it's not allowed for someone to boycott a product range from a company they dislike? It's like suggesting that a SCO Phone should be hunky-dory even though it's from a company that has performed some morally repugnant actions in other industries related to computing.

        MS should learn that their reputation in some areas will follow them into others. Do you not notice how horrified some people are that their *car* might run Windows? Or that Windows might come onto their phones? Eek.

        And are we supposed to discount all history from, say, Windows CE too? Every product release is a whole new ball game and we have to wipe the slate clean? Sorry, it doesn't work that way even if MS want it to. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

        Or maybe the guy just evaluated the currently available products and found Windows inferior. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy against MS, and even if it is (I tell you now, that I wouldn't buy a phone with MS's name on it) then there's nothing wrong with that.

        If MS want to avoid this, they need to clean up their reputation across the board, not pretend that their secondary businesses are somehow running under some improved management that makes them not subject to the mistakes and business decisions they already use in other subsidiaries.

        On the other hand, it also works the same way - if you have a good reputation, I *will* try a product on the basis of that reputation. But what you seem to be saying is that's it not okay for someone to boycott a company that has (with them) a bad reputation? How ridiculous.

        How about we judge everything on its merits, including previous history of that corporation. Yes, it might have been a Sony subsidiary that enforced a rootkit DRM on its users, but that should equally tar all other Sony products too. Especially if, as history shows, they go on to make more mistakes and more problems under that brand.

        Personally, you couldn't get me to touch a Windows phone with rubber gloves and a face mask. Hell, I'd rather try making my own first. Unreasonable? Only if you've never tried any Windows product at all and/or you've never heard bad things about Windows products from others. Otherwise, you're an idiot to think that their reputation shouldn't carry over to new industries and products.

        And, besides all that, Windows Phone is inferior if everything I expect from a product on my Phone. And has a certain price tag associated with it. But even if it wasn't, it doesn't mean I *MUST* use it. A philosophy that saved me from Vista, ME, and all manner of other horrors, despite the fact that my desktop OS *is* a Microsoft one.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Well Lee, I prefer to buy products based on how good they are, not because of emotional ties I have to a faceless corporation.

        2. Anonymous Coward 101

          @Lee Dowling

          'Are you saying that it's not allowed for someone to boycott a product range from a company they dislike?'

          It's fine to boycott products if one does not favour the practices of the manufacturer, as long as you don't pretend that the products are worse than they are.

      3. JDX Gold badge

        Hilarious, literally downvotes from smelly teenagers simply because I bought something they don't like.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Hilarious, literally downvotes from smelly teenagers"

          Maybe your sparkling personality has something to do with it?

        2. Mahou Saru

          Personally..

          I'm down voting you coz I don't need to buy it to try it. There is this magical place called a shop where you can actually try things before deciding if you like it or not....

          1. Manu T

            Re: Personally..

            No you CAN'T try it in a shop. You can only hold it a few moments but you can't really try it.

            Just ask the shopkeeper to put a sim-card in it (even your own) and call someone to hear if the earpiece is loud enough for you! You'll get a NJET! So "trying" a phone in a shop is bullshit. The only decision you can make is whether you like the design, feel and screen.

            But you can't make a call with it (the prime function of a PHONE), you may not install that smartphone app that you bought to see if it'll work on the (new) model), you can't send the picture that you took to test the camera to your phone/home/email or other PC nearby to see if the camera is actually good.

            So telling ppl that they can "try the phone in a shop" is complete nonsense. You can ONLY make a true assessment o/t device if you actaully USE it for a few days or weeks.

            In my own case a problem since my Lumia 800 has been more at the repairshop than actually in my hand.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I downvoted you because...

          1. I disagreed with your views.

          2. You were unnecessarily insulting to people who disagreed with you.

          3. Because you actually cared enough about downvotes to post about them.

          Probably #3 was the biggest reason.

      4. Giles Jones Gold badge

        Indeed, there's nothing remotely Windowsy about Windows Phone. The only clues are some of the brands, IE, Office and so on.

        But the user experience is good, better than iOS and Android. Of course the fandroids will vote any positive post about WP7, but they've not tried it so how can they know?

        1. David Black
          Megaphone

          Tried... bag-o-shite

          I gave it 6 months of use and just couldn't stand it's consistent crappyness (from WP7.0 then 7.1 and then 7.5). There's really no compelling reason to use Windows Phone and a great number of reasons not to. So please don't assume that everyone is ignorant and they just need to "try", some of us have and frankly I'd rather "try" being fisted a la 50 Shades of Grey than pick up a Windows Phone for the rest of my life.

          Worked for Nokia. Still bitter.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Tried... bag-o-shite

            @David: "So please don't assume that everyone is ignorant"

            But you make it so easy...

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. David Black
              Happy

              Re: Tried... bag-o-shite

              Yawn, fecking hilarious... but jokes on you spud, you own a Windows Phone.

              Your mum loves you, special boy.

          2. Manu T

            Re: Tried... bag-o-shite

            Bought a Lumia 800 in Febraury 2012, went into repair a month later, went into repair again end of June 2012 (got a bill for 326,66 euro's which I wouldn't pay), early juli Microsoft declared WP7 a "burning platform"... Mid-august the phone that I bought 6 months earlier for 499 euro's is gone. I have to pay to get it back unrepaired and I have to pay a hefty sum to get it repaired. When the next big thing comes around withing 3 months from now.

            So. indeed. Some of us DID try with disastrous consequences. I'm +500 euro's lighter and have NO phone anymore. THANK YOU FUCKING NOKIA! I'll remember you NEXT TIME!

        2. Tom 38 Silver badge

          What a load of nonsense. Nothing Windowsy? You take pictures, they are uploaded to Windows Live Skydrive. Want to identify music? Use the Bing Music Search - no Shazaam here. Make a note about something? Its now on OneNote. Want to play some music? Fire up the Zune player. Want to use an IM? Fire up Windows Live Messenger.

          Personally, I've not tried a WP. But then I don't need to. I've already made my choices about where I'm going to keep my contacts, my photos, my music, my files, my security certificates and so on. Based upon 24 years of using products built by MS, I'm quite glad that I have the choice.

          1. The Original Steve
            FAIL

            @ Tom38

            Stop talking shit.

            "You take pictures, they are uploaded to Windows Live Skydrive."

            My WP handset calls it 'SkyDrive'.

            "Want to identify music? Use the Bing Music Search - no Shazaam here"

            Yup, I press the magnifying glass icon and then the music note icon. I have never seen any branding called 'Bing Music Search'.

            Oh - but just in case the built-in music search fails I DO have the Shazaam app installed too. You know, because I can.

            "Want to play some music? Fire up the Zune player."

            Not on my WP handset I don't. I touch 'Music & Videos'.

            "Want to use an IM? Fire up Windows Live Messenger."

            Nah, I don't have anyone on WLM. Does anyone even use that anymore? I use Facebook IM - which is integrated into the messaging application natively, along with Twitter, LinkedIn etc. Or you can not use any of them.

            "Personally, I've not tried a WP."

            No shit?

            "But then I don't need to."

            See above

            "I've already made my choices about where I'm going to keep my contacts, my photos, my music, my files,..."

            I'm pleased for you. My previous handset was a HTC Desire running stock ROM as well as a few custom ones such as Modoco. As such a lot of my contacts are on Facebook and GMail. Thankfully Windows Phone will connect to these address books and copy to the local device and continue to sync from the "cloud" service. The same as Android, and I presume iOS do. Microsoft don't have anything that Google and Facebook don't already have in terms of data. My files aren't kept on Skydrive as I don't want them too. Neither to my photo's. My contacts are kept in GMail including new contacts I create on the phone. Calendar is GMail too.*

            *Actually my shit is stored on SkyDrive, although I still have most contacts on Google and Facebook still. But that's because I have made my choice. My choice is that Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple are all fuckers but the convenience of essentially having a backup copy of my data in case I lose or break my phone is worth the trade off. But that's MY choice. Your choice of making statements about a product you clearly know nothing about however is a poor one.

        3. Manu T

          I require a LOT MORE than a "user experience" from my phone.

          For one thing the Lumia 800's audio is so crappy that you barely hear when someone is calling (especially when you pack the phone in a protective case or have it in your coat or purse) and because there isn't a bloody notification light you can't even SEE that you missed that call. How stupid is that!

          As for the "good" user experience. It's so bloody good that it can't connect to my hidden MAC-address-protected WIFI-router. Or that I can't send a picture that I just took to ANY other phone (without spending on a data-account). It sucks. It's NOT because it looks new that it is GOOD. In fact Nokia's Harmattan also looks NEW and that IS a LOT better. Nokia should have sold it Microsoft instead of the other way around.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          So...

          ... if there is nothing remotely Windowsy about Windows Phone then why did Microsoft call it Windows Phone. Was it purely to cash in on the name?

          Given than Windows 8's Metro, er, Modern UI or whatever its called today is supposed to be consistent across platforms then it must be Windowy, mustn't it....

          Or am I losing the plot?

      5. senti
        Facepalm

        Heh, sure

        "I got a WP Nokia a few weeks ago - I think it's great. When you say "I hate Windows" do you mean you hate Windows desktop so you refused to even try a totally different OS because it had the same name, or that you tried and hated WP?"

        This is why some people don't buy Windows Phone: http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44034

        Personally, I don't like iOS and/or Android either, since they are crap as phones.

        That's why I still use E72.

        P.S: I mean, even my old shitty 30$ Samsung phone has 'multi select/delete' feature for SMSs. How Microsoft could release a phone without that basic feature is beyond me. Unless Lumia 900 (only one that I haven't tried) has that feature, in which case I'd laugh even more.

      6. Manu T

        @ JDX

        I have currently 2 Nokia's. One I hate with all my heart and the other which I love.

        The Lumia 800 is AGAIN in repair (the bloody morons charged me OVER 300 euro's to repair it!!!),

        It's pure crap. I'm not even gonna bother to get it when it'll be returned UNREPAIRD (especially after Microsoft last announcement NOT to supply WP8 to current devices). A horrible screen, fragile body, speakers that you barely hear and no notification light (not only do barely HEAR when someone has called, you don't even SEE that you've missed that bloody call!) and whatever more that's crippled. It's even a fucking dog to put a ringtone on it.

        And there's the complete opposite. The Nokia 701. It's fast, easy to use, easier to navigate and has more (usefull) features than the Lumia. There's the automatic call-recording (3rd party app), the full bluetooth transfer (including syncing with Outlook), the fantastic FM-transmitter (invaluable with my olde 2001 Merc C220 wagon with it's ancient becker radio w/o BT nor aux-input). It has an micro-SD slot, fantastic free offline navigation suite which even works with the phones addressbook and agenda.

        In fact when I install an app it nicely asked to get installed on phone-memory, internal storag (8GB) or the SD-card (16GB). Unlike android where such a trivial thing is a complete mess. that 701 is the very best phone I've ever had. The ONLY achilles heel on the h/w is the EDoF camera which is fantastic for video but is unusable for macro-shots and low-light situations (IMHO they should have inserted the N9/Lumia800-camera in that device). And the only achilles heel on the software is webbrowsing for everything else this phone is fantastic.

        Its killing to see a company creating both the worst and best all-round smartphone. And to drive me both to anger (lumia 800) and joy (701). It's such a shame. They had it all!

        1. hazydave

          Re: @ JDX

          The Android weirdness with Card vs. internal memory is all about security.. so don't write it off too quickly. SD Cards have FAT32 file formats -- it's part of the standard, and why you can mount your Android device as an SD Drive, if you have such a card. But they don't support Linux-type protection metadata. So when you load up a new application, the secure bits have to stay on internal, ext3/4 filesystem partitions. Only the non-critical stuff (which is often the bulk of the app, anyway) can go on the SD Card.

      7. gaz 7

        I hate windows

        I hate windows as a desktop OS - I am a linux user at home, and

        it's slicker

        easier these days to install stuff

        easier to diagnose and fix when something does fail

        more immune against viruses and malware

        faster

        faster on old scabby hardware

        plays a wider variety of media easier without complaining about codecs and file formats

        Oh and cheap, very cheap!

        Dont want a windows phone as I would need to sideload music and stuff though a windows app, which thinks it knows better than I do - dont want an iphone for similar reasons.

        There are a lot of other reasons why I would not want a Windows phone, especially a Nokia btw.

        And I support and manage several hundred Windows servers for my day job. Windows, SQL Server, Exchange, Sharepoint & Active Directory and group policy all rock in a corporate environment btw!

    2. Manu T

      Nokia 701

      The worst is that the current BEST all-round Nokia phone the Nokia 701 is comletely neglected!

      This phone is fast, easy to use, looks and feels great and can do MORE than most other phones in its price-range (including Androids, other symbians, WP and iOS devices). It's size is perfect for one handed use, it's screen is perfect for its nHD resolution, it has a microSD-slot, normal sim-slot, full bluetooth, FM-transmitter, etc... Apart from the camera which only needs a simple improvement (use the camera from the N9 instead of that EDoF module) and it would be PERFECT! No need for pureview. Just an 8Mpixel N9 camera inside that C7-00/701 body.

      It's ridiculous to see how stupid Nokia is with regards to product placement and development. Not to mention their (lack of) marketing. As S. Balmer would yell: STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! They ARE STUPID!

      1. Philip Lewis
        Mushroom

        Re: Nokia 701

        "Lack of marketing"

        F*k me, we got carpet bombed about the Lumia here. I have yet to see even 1 device in the hands of a punter though. The few WP phones I have seen were LGs IIRC.

  5. Code Monkey
    Facepalm

    Oh Nokia

    You're in a hole ... stop digging!

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Oh Nokia

      What else would they do instead? Might as well keep going now, things can only get better really when you're starting from 0.

  6. the-it-slayer
    Mushroom

    Smack! Crash! Bang!

    That's the sound of when Nokia hits the wall (in approx. 18 months time?) when WP8 phones haven't shifted like they wanted, the money is running dry and all that's left are a few decent hardware engineers and a tonne of patents for Microsoft to swallow up to continue their own hardware/software phones.

    It's that or they'll be dead meat like Kodak and plenty of other corp's that are just crawling like snails with fingers in their ears.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Smack! Crash! Bang!

      Why would they hit the wall - they can just continue downsizing to meet whatever the demand is.

      If people are getting a bit tired of the Apple brand - simply because it's not so cool - then maybe a MS brand will have some chance since Android is the no-brand alternative, and lots of people are always going to prefer a brand.

      1. the-it-slayer
        Meh

        Re: Smack! Crash! Bang!

        Their brand is slowly deteriorating by the day. Nothing like the old rigid and reliable candy phones that were once king. If Microsoft ever pulled the plug, the rest of their phone business couldn't ever hold them up in any right. Not even if they made a huge u-turn to adopt Android, it would be too late.

        Personally, I'm more than cosy with the Apple brand. My iP4 is working quite swimmingly and having adopted the rest of the family now, it would take a lot for me to come away from that framework. Not because it's cool, but working in IT; I'm fed up with jiving with Windows/Android boxes that need too much of my attention. I've personally always loved Nokia and anything they made on the other hand. However, they just got too slow out of the starting blocks and paid the consequences. Same with RIM. Either of them would have to ditch everything and start from scratch to even get a product anywhere near the hype Apple/Google have at the moment. Rolling out the same thing year after year won't score you points anymore. That's the risk with WP7.5/8. There's no upgrade path and stops any sort of loyality you have when the company/software moves forward.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The phrase

    "..one-legged man in an ass kicking competition" springs to mind here.

    -an anonymous ex-Nokia user, who would be just as happy with an iPhone as this Galaxy S3, both excellent choices.

  8. MikeyD85
    Megaphone

    Put Android on the Lumia 900

    Watch it sell to the mid range market like hot cakes. Well... warm ones... but better than stone cold ones.

    Megaphone: The only way they'll hear the voice of reason.

    1. alain williams Silver badge

      Re: Put Android on the Lumia 900

      No reason why they should not try the same hardware with 2 different operating systems... other than pissing off Steve Ballmer. If the Android one does not sell - then Ballmer was right. Chances are that they will sell some of each, but which sells more would be interesting to find out.

      Give them different names to avoid confusing the public, but that is about it.

      1. mr_jrt
        Flame

        Re: Put Android on the Lumia 900

        ...they wouldn't do it as it would just show up Windows Phone, just as the N9 did, outselling it despite not being sold through the normal channels in western Europe or the US.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What more ?

    I have an iPhone 4S. What on earth "pent up demand" can there be ? Apart from RFID/NFC and phones used as electronic wallets, what on earth else can anyone be anticipating ?

    The bubble is going to burst. Once the base feature set is comprehensive, there will be a drive to low cost products.. Android lagginess will be solved with better hardware... the Chinese manufacturers will compete with the Koreans. I'm not sure what Apple will do to be able to maintain their niche position... or what Windows will able to do to differentiate.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: What more ?

      Before we had smartphones, you could have said the same - they all made calls and did texts. But still we had several companies continuing to get us to upgrade our handsets every year.

    2. Giles Jones Gold badge

      Re: What more ?

      Better hardware will not be unique to Android, so a WP vs an Android phone with similar specs will mean the WP being faster. It already runs amazingly fast on a single core CPU, faster than the iPhone 4 I used before.

      With WP8 allowing native C++ apps it will run even quicker than now. Virtual Machine crap doesn't have any place on a mobile device, code that compiles to ARM machine code will always be faster and use less battery. It's just not as easy to write.

      1. garyc2011
        Thumb Down

        Re: What more ?

        "a WP vs an Android phone with similar specs will mean the WP being faster. It already runs amazingly fast on a single core CPU"

        Its fast if all you do is scroll up and down menus, app loading times are slooooooooooooooooooooooooow

        Plus it is also only fast because it doesn't multitask.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What more ?

        "Better hardware will not be unique to Android, so a WP vs an Android phone with similar specs will mean the WP being faster."

        Of course it will be faster. It can´t do jack shit!

        As a matter of fact. Nokia´s own 701 SMOKES ALL the bloody Lumia´s they ever made (even the 900 which is slower then the 800). Which is why you won´t find them in stores. As for my own case. Tried a Lumia broke down twice, I´m so fucked up that I want to throw it to the front door of the Nokia building.

        This time next year their gone so who cares. And if not then we´ll maken them gone.

    3. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: What more ?

      I think it'll be the "Keeping up with the Jones'" mentality. Gotta have the latest, shinest toy - even if you don't actually need it. This is especially true in the teenage market where peer-pressure is immense.

  10. William Boyle

    Don't fracture your base

    I am a senior Nokia engineer. Personally, I like a lot of things about my Nexus One Android phone better than my Nokia S40 phone, N8 Phone, and new Lumia 900 (Windows) phone. However, I understand perfectly why Elop has settled us on support of the Windows phone OS going forward. Attempting to support multiple operating systems on a suite of mobile devices is divisive (pun intended) to an organization. Can you imagine Apple supporting anything other than iOS, or Google anything other than Android (well - maybe). That sort of effort splits your attention without appreciable benefit, other than to appear to be a follower rather than a leader.

    So, is there room for 3 major phone environments? I think so, and I think Stephen made the correct choice in wanting to be a leader rather than a follower. Did we want to be just another Android vendor? There are a gazillion Android phone manufacturers out there now. iOS is out of the question - Apple would never license it. Microsoft needs a big adopter in order to move its phone OS into the mainstream, and decided Nokia was it. This does not reduce our challenge in getting back into contender/leader status in the mobile phone market place, but I think we can do it.

    FWIW, there is a lot to like about the Lumia phones, and the price is "right" (for the consumer at least). Only time will tell if we have made the right choice, but don't count us out of the race just yet!

    1. The Serpent

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      "I think Stephen made the correct choice in wanting to be a leader rather than a follower"

      "Microsoft needs a big adopter in order to move its phone OS into the mainstream, and decided Nokia was it"

      Sorry, who was the leader again??

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      Attempting to support multiple operating systems on a suite of mobile devices is divisive (pun intended) to an organization. Can you imagine Apple supporting anything other than iOS, or Google anything other than Android

      Apple - iOS & OSX; Google - Android & Chrome.

      Your point?

      Did we want to be just another Android vendor?

      So you'd rather be just another Windows Phone vendor, competing neck and neck with Bada for market share?

      This does not reduce our challenge in getting back into contender/leader status in the mobile phone market place, but I think we can do it.

      When hell freezes over - sorry, but Nokia as a leader in any shape or form, now that it's divested itself of all R&D capability, is about as likely as HTC becoming the dominant global smartphone supplier.

      Nokia is just an OEM for Microsoft now, you'll do what you're told by Redmond and that's it.

      Are you really a Nokia employee, or a shill posing as one? I've been a loyal Nokia customer throughout the last 15 years but given the destruction of Nokia under Elop there is now no Nokia in my future. And I'd hazard a guess that if you really are a Nokia engineer, the same will likely apply to you within the next 12 months.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Don't fracture your base

        Yeah, Nokia is now just an OEM bitch for Microsoft now. If/when Microsoft loses interest and stops throwing money at Nokia, the Finnish company will collapse overnight.

        At least if you're Google's OEM bitch, there's still quite a fair bit of autonomy given to you.

        Mr Elop still does not get it: many Nokia loyalists had already moved on to iPhones and Android phones. They were loyal to Nokia precisely because its phones were NOT loaded with Windows. Even during the Windows Mobile 6.5 era, Nokia held firm and went along with Symbian. It was going rather well until Elop and the 'burning platform' memo arrived.

        1. Manu T

          Re: Don't fracture your base

          "many Nokia loyalists had already moved on to iPhones and Android phones."

          No most Nokia loyalist kept using their symbian devices. Only the ones that are vulnerable to propaganda have moved to iPhone and androids. And found them too light; No 2-way call recording, crippled multitasking, crippled bluetooth transfers, no local USB-BT syncing, worse reception, bad call quality, cheap crappy build quality etc...

          Then there´s the matter of getting your phone rooted/jailbroken to "sideload" stuff or "patch" features. Which is far easier on Symbian then on e.g. iPhones or WP-devices.

          The problem is that some Androids have comparable features. E.G some devices CAN indeed record calls (fyi LG 4x hd) but this is kept under the radar so Symbian users (or other) will never get those devices (or discover this through sheer luck).

          Luck is not a good motivator to buy an expensive smartphone.

    3. Gareth Gouldstone
      Happy

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      ' ... Windows phone OS going forward.'

      Using corporate-speak like that, no wonder it feels like Nokia are going backward

    4. David Black

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      Take out redundancy insurance mate, you're going to need it.

    5. Ocular Sinister
      FAIL

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      > ...wanting to be a leader rather than a follower

      You stopped being a leader when you got rid of the R&D people. You are now, and from hence forth always will be, a follower. Another HTC. Or LG. Or whatever knock of Chinese brand. Just with an OS that's a bit more shitty and a lot less open to Nokia customisations - even if you had the people left to do that.

      Welcome to the low/no margin world of the grey box shifter, following the tune played in Redmond.

    6. ColonelClaw
      WTF?

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      "Microsoft needs a big adopter in order to move its phone OS into the mainstream, and decided Nokia was it."

      This is the big take-away from what you have written. To summarise, you are saying Nokia is a completely gutless company who bent over and took it from MS. I'm bloody glad I'm not a Nokia shareholder

      Shame - once upon a time I used to only recommend Nokia to my friends and family. Nowadays I recommend anything BUT Nokia.

    7. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      You've changed your tune a bit.

    8. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      > and the price is "right" (for the consumer at least).

      WP7 is now a dead-end. Completely different new models for WP8 will be announced in a month or two and there is no overlap between the two products. While Q2 shipments appear to have risen it is likely that vendors will not be reordering any for Q3 and the new models will probably not ramp up until 2013Q1. This will likely leave a gap of two quarters with almost no shipments.

      Meanwhile WP7 phones will be discounted to get rid of stock. Adverts here last week had Lumia 610 at 45% off for PAYG, which may indicate that end-user sales have plummeted since MS announced the end of WP7.

      OTOH recently the Asha range is being advertised much more than Lumia ever was. Odd, though, the photos show an AZERTY keyboard. Perhaps they have been shipped from India ?

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      Two questions :- How long have you worked for Nokia? And what did you think of the Windows phone before you joined?

    10. Philip Lewis
      WTF?

      Re: Don't fracture your base

      I don't think your even in the same city the race is happening, and you should learn to read balance sheets.

      Don't get me wrong, I have owned several Nokia phones, and the N9 I have is a great device. Luckily I travel enough to have been able to get one quite cheaply, since Elop dumped them in strange places to hide them from view, and probably melted down most of them for all I know. I secretly think the 200m+ write down of parts was N9s, but I cannot really prove it.

      I even think that WP is an interesting and new take on the smartphone interface. Not my cup of tea, but I don't hate it or anything.

      However, declaring instantaneously that everything Nokia ever did was shit and that stupid "boy stood on the burning deck" metaphor has essentially drained Nokia of its capital and destroyed its income base. These facts are undeniable and Nokia WILL run out of money. Nokia is junk status and deservedly so, because it is run by a moron who actually thinks he knows something. Elop pissing off the carriers hasn't helped either, and since the carriers are averse to Skype (aka. MS) for obvious reasons, the carriers are going to be reticent about selling WP devices. Surprise surprise. Elop is a moron, sorry to be the one to say it.

      By the way, my Nokia engineering friends are all unemployed these days, and you can expect to be soon as well, because the burn rate at Nokia shows no signs of slowing, the market has fled Symbian since Elop killed it, and the punters (and carriers) have shown no signs of liking WP. I have an N9 as I said and it is great, too bad I had to make such an effort to buy it!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh yeah right

    I bet somewhere in Nokia, someone is running a Lumia 1000 on Android 'just for testing until Windows 8 is ready'.

    Whether Elop knows about it is another question. And whether it's good enough to ship quickly when he gets fired is another too

    WP7 offers some good ideas, and some neat features. And a huge, huge pile of cash from Microsoft which must have been incredibly hard to turn down. But my worry about Nokia is that they haven't stood up to Microsoft and insisted that they hurry out bug fixes, a version that runs on dual-core processors, or some bugfixes for Internet Explorer. That makes me think they've lost it.

  12. ZeroP
    Meh

    My big concern is that with all the models released this past year, none really seemed to have gained any traction. Not to mention they'll all be left in the dust with WinPho8 already on the horizon. It was enough to steer me away from Nokia when I had to replace my S2.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or you can believe the shills

      "The Lumia phones are selling really, super well!"

      "Windows phones have SMOKED the competition!"

      "Windows Phone 8 will be a game changer!" (They said the same for WP7.5 Mango).

      Microsoft PR department = Comical Ali of Saddam's Iraq.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "In today's war [between] Android, Apple and Windows, we are very clear, we are fighting that with the Windows phone,"

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Without a doubt, one of the funniest things I ever read. At least Elop has a future as a comedian when he's finished driving Nokia in to the ground.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Poor little Belgium

      In WW2 [between] Germany, Russia, the United States, and Belgium, we are very clear, we were fighting with Belgium.

      AFAIK WP is still the no 5 smartphone OS, having just pipped Bada but not overtaken Blackberry or Symbian.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Elop can talk all he wants

    He's assuming that he'll still keep his job at Nokia.

    Already, the 'no Microsoft' Plan B is set in motion by influential folks at Nokia. A trigger (e.g. poor sales of Lumia W8 phones) will see that plan come into fruition, and Mr Elop packing his bags.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Elop can talk all he wants

        Nokia is selling its patents to patent-holding companies at an alarming rate, and in each case MS has in interest in the patent-holding companies.

        As there is no trojan horse icon I'm going for the burning platform icon.

    2. Mikel
      Pint

      Re: Elop can talk all he wants

      A filing cabinet full of patents in a Redmond basement does not require a CEO to manage it. That can be done by a couple paralegals and a secretary..

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    nokia

    kthxbye

  16. Def Silver badge

    "...lies with Windows Phone and no other OS."

    So how come Nokia bought SmarterPhone last year?

    1. David Black
      Facepalm

      Re: "...lies with Windows Phone and no other OS."

      Old habits die hard? No surprise they still don't know their arse from their elbow.

      Nokia always had internal OS competition, it was mostly a strength but when it came time to fight, the internal squabbles and divisions prevented them rallying the most powerful force of mobile developers on the planet and seeing off the challenge of iOS and Android.

      The war is over Mr Elop, Nokia lost, now time for you to retreat into your bunker and do the right thing :(

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "...lies with Windows Phone and no other OS."

      So how come Nokia bought SmarterPhone last year?

      Nokia buying SmarterPhone and then shutting it down wouldn't draw much attention but eliminates yet more WP competition from the market place... that seems to be Nokia's current MO, shut down as many operating systems that could possibly compete with Windows Phone. I wonder who is driving this policy? If Microsoft were to acquire another mobile OS company it would raise questions, but it's nothing for Nokia to do the same (then quietly shut it down).

  17. Anonymous Coward 101
    Stop

    Don't like Elop?

    Fine, but he ended up in charge of Nokia because of the total brand destruction that occurred between the years 2008 and 2010. Nokia, with their mismanaged Smartphones division, was dying. Nokia could have gone Android in 2009 and got a head start on HTC and Samsung - but they didn't. Or they could have got MeeGo up to speed by 2010 and started getting great devices out - but they didn't. That left Microsoft, who were desperate to get a manufacturer to actually make an effort with Windows Phone.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't like Elop?

      Sad but true

      Nokia is at the bottom of a very deep pit, but it is a pit it dug itself. The N9 was a very nice if late to market bit of kit (I've actually used one for a prolonged period of time) but the Lumia series? Reasonable mid range handsets with a now orphaned OS but nothing more and certainly no challenge to the iPhone, Galaxy SIII, One X etc etc etc etc.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Don't like Elop?

      They didn't get MeeGo phones out there because Flop killed the platform and phone stone dead soon after his arrival, prompting the resignation of the head of the MeeGo project.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't like Elop?

      a) Learn to read a balance sheet

      b) Read Nokia's, up til about 6mth after Elop arrived

      You will find you statements to be false. Nokia (Symbian) smartphones were fare and away the global leader, and the smartphone division turned the biggest profit EVER for a Nokia division. Nokia made so much money they took a 1.5 billion dollar write down because they had so much income to offset.

      Really, this Nokia was dying crap is not evident in the balance sheet until after Elop "got going"

      Amazing the share price has crawled over 2.6, up from 1.7 a short time ago, but that has nothing to do with Nokia's knock out sales success with WP or the expectation that WP8 will turn Nokia's fortunes around.

      Nokia will run out of money around Q1 next year. Full time hooter.

    4. Manu T

      Re: Don't like Elop?

      "Or they could have got MeeGo up to speed by 2010 and started getting great devices out - but they didn't."

      I´ll correct that for you: " - but they couldn't." They released their flagship Meego device in 2011. By then the majority of the "techno press" declared it too late.

      "That left Microsoft, who were desperate to get a manufacturer to actually make an effort with Windows Phone."

      Actually it was Nokia who where desperate. After their CEO prematurely destroyed sales of Symbian devices (whom where still selling a lot back then) without ANY other device in shops to replace them.

      As for that question. NO! I don´t like Elop.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Who are Nokia and whis is Windows Phone?

    Never heard of either of them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who are Nokia and whis is Windows Phone?

      Off the meds again? Memory a bit hazy? I'll remind you: It's what you bang on about all the time.

  19. Emmett Jenner

    The windows 7 phones are actually good. The previous windows phones were poor. I'm expecting windows 8 phones to be an upgrade over 7. I've used an iPhone as well and the Windows phone is much easier to use and configure. Will be buying another windows phone at the end of my contract next year.

    On another note, if they want to know why phone sales are down they've got to look towards these phone companies and their two year contracts. Of course handset sales are going to fall if people move from 12-months to 18-months to 24-months...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Please. Do not blame the duration of the contracts for the failings of Windows phones.

      That just screams desperation.

      2-year contracts are the norm in this part of the world, and that didn't stop many folks from upgrading to a new handset every year.

      I move about in my daily routine, take the public transport, and I have yet to encounter one person using a Windows phone. None. Those colourful live tiles are easy to spot from far away... if they exist. They don't. Almost everyone has an iPhone or Android (especially Samsung). A few carry a Blackberry or a Symbian Nokia.

      You like Windows phones and want to own one? That's fine, it's your money and your choice and we respect that. But you must acknowledge that Microsoft/Nokia has already lost the 'war of the ecosystems', and the Windows phone market share is abysmal. That is not going to change anytime soon.

  20. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What will happen to the bankrupt Nokia

    The name & patents bundle will be bought be a Chinese manufacturer who will then put Android on it. Make a nice retro s6 skin for the GUI, build it like Nokias used to be, replicate some of the good apps that s6 had (eg the brilliant Podcast client) and it'll draw in a lot of old Nokia aficionados.

  22. Baudwalk

    A pity...

    ...they killed off Maemo^HMeego.

    I was very happy with my N800 (got the navigation suite too) and would have loved a phone like it with capacitive touch.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Elop hanging in there

    Then again there were people hanging on to the rail of the Titanic thinking there is no way it was going to sink just before it took the final plunge.

    The only question left for Elop - how long can you hold your breath?

  24. toadwarrior

    In a way I don't blame him. Android is gonna continue to get a repuation for being budget crap, they can't sell iOS so what else is there these days other than to ride this out and maybe quitely work on their own solution in the background.

    Sure people can say Android has a lot of hand sets out there but that's because a lot of android phones are lon-end. Some are probably even Happy Meal prizes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Android is 'budget crap'? Please.

      Windows Phone: now THAT is crap at any budget. They tried a high end Lumia 900. Crap. They tried a low-end budget Lumia 610. Still crap.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Long shot

    The best thing that Nokia can now do is to fire Elop and switch to the Android platform.

    It would be messy, but it would offer Nokia their best chance of survival as an independent company

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Long shot

      It wouldn't be messy.

      Running him over with a steamroller on live TV would be messy. Firing him wouldn't be messy.

  26. AB
    Mushroom

    What, nothing from RICHTO?

    I'm shocked.

    ...and could everyone please stop suggesting that Nokia should switch to Android. They wouldn't survive, and even if they did, what kind of independence is that?

    Unnecessary nuke icon, just to see if it's like a bat logo for RICHTO's nonsense...

  27. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Might as well....

    I think Nokia is doomed. But, it's far too late for them to realistically ditch their phone lineup and switch to Android. That leaves continuing the ride w/ Winows and seeing what happens. Too bad, I liked the Nokia I had years ago. And I like the newer Nokia hardware I've seen, if it didn't have the software it had on it.

  28. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Android has NDK too...

    "With WP8 allowing native C++ apps it will run even quicker than now. Virtual Machine crap doesn't have any place on a mobile device, code that compiles to ARM machine code will always be faster and use less battery. It's just not as easy to write."

    *shrug*. Android has NDK (Native Development Kit), allowing native apps. Straight ARM code. Of course, then your code will not run on the MIPS tablets (those like $80 tablets run MIPS CPUs.) I have a video player on my phone that uses some heavily optimized ARMv7 code to do the actual video decoding; it'll play a video at like 20% usage that maxes out the CPU using the normal player.

  29. flibbertigibbet
    Pint

    If you want to be remembered as the Captian that went down with your ship

    ... then you absolutely have to make sure the ship goes down.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The funniest thing...

    When Nokia first announced that they were switching to WP7, all the WP7 fans declared that WP7 would be the market leader within a few months since Nokia sells x% of phones. How did that go for you guys?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The funniest thing...

      They also held a 'funeral' for Apple's iPhone in 2010. Talk about premature celebration.

      http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/microsoft-celebrates-windows-phone-7-rtm-with-funeral-parade-for/

      Oh, and don't forget the "Mango is going to be awesome! Wait for WP7.5!" astroturfing in 2011.

      Fool me once, shame on you.

      Fool me twice... fool me can't get fooled again!

      Windows Phone 8 is going to crash and burn, and I do hope and pray that Nokia has a non-Microsoft Plan B.

      Start with the main objective of getting rid of Stephen Elop.

    2. JDX Gold badge

      Re: The funniest thing...

      "When Nokia first announced that they were switching to WP7, all the WP7 fans declared that WP7 would be the market leader within a few months"

      I've never seen even the most ardent WP fan make any claim that WP is going to be a market leader, ever. I think you made that entire claim up simply so you can attempt to look clever by rebuking it.

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: The funniest thing...

        > I've never seen even the most ardent WP fan make any claim ...

        Your not seeing them is not evidence that it did not exist. In April 2011 Gartner and others reported a huge growth for WP and fans extrapolated this:

        """Windows Phone’s climb will be slow, Gartner expects, hitting 5.6 percent during this year and 10.8 percent in 2012. By 2015, Windows Phone will claim 19.5 percent of the market, versus iOS’s 17.2 percent and BlackBerry’s 11.1 percent, Gartner predicts."""

  31. Visitant

    Elop's delusional

    Elop is completely delusional. Tomi Ahonen likes to vent to excess about Elop, but I think he's right about getting rid of him ASAP. He's killing Nokia.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Elop's delusional

      "He has killed nokia"

      There, fixed that for you.

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