back to article Nokia straps Qt into ejector seat and hits the shiny red button

Nokia's back-room clear out continues with the Qt platform being sold to Finnish firm Digia Oyj for an undisclosed sum. As part of the deal 125 engineers will swap employers. Digia was a licensee of Qt, distributing commercial and freeware versions of the platform and development tools, but now it owns the whole shebang. Qt …

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  1. KjetilS
    Thumb Up

    Excellent news!

    This should increase QT's life expectancy quite a bit

    1. Ilgaz

      Re: Excellent news!

      I guess qt passed the ultimate hardcore benchmark, being owned by Nokia idiots and not dying.

      I am not being sarcastic or joking, I was a Nokia/ symbian user just until last year.

  2. xperroni
    Flame

    At least it's not Accenture

    So I reckon Qt will fare rather better than Symbian – i.e. it can still hope for a future.

    1. Ilgaz

      Used their stuff on Sony Ericsson p1i

      In weird times, 3 different, state of art browsers shipped for SE P1 symbian uiq right after it was pronounced dead by Sony.

      One of them was Digia @web browser and I have used it. They really know how to code for sure.

    2. James 47

      Re: At least it's not Accenture

      Symbian is still owned by Nokkers, Symbian maintainence is carried out by Accenture

      1. xperroni
        Boffin

        Re: At least it's not Accenture

        Symbian is still owned by Nokkers, Symbian maintainence is carried out by Accenture

        And that makes things better because...?

        1. Ocular Sinister
          Mushroom

          Re: At least it's not Accenture

          > Symbian is still owned by Nokkers, Symbian maintainence is carried out by Accenture

          Yeah, Stevie Wonder is driving and Chales Manson is co-pilot. Yeeeeeahaaaa!

  3. Levente Szileszky
    Thumb Up

    The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

    ...and driving Nokia into the ground, only to provide Microsoft a state-of-the-art hardware division and global distribution channel for next to nothing by 2014 (coincidentally also killing off the last chance for a competitive non-US mobile platform - no, BBX will never succeed, unfortunately.)

    Ironically the 'ejection' of Qt is actually *great* news: they are not tied to this self-immolating, self-destructing giant anymore - anything is better than certain death....

    ...stupid, stupid, Nokia board - they will go down in history as one of the most clueless one (right next to HP's lawyer-board, of course.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

      "...stupid, stupid, Nokia board - they will go down in history as one of the most clueless one (right next to HP's lawyer-board, of course.)"

      The board members are elected by the share holders. The overwhelming majority of them (share holders) are major investors in MS. The board members are in on it too.

    2. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

      Why stupid? They ditched that dead and dying MeGo and Symbian crap and went for the best mobile platform that there is before any one else large got a look in. Great tactical move. And in only a few months WP sales have doubled - largely thanks to Nokia.

      Windows Phone already sells 20% of the volume of the iphone and are growing rapidly - not bad for a new OS when everyone is also waiting for WP and the new Nokia handsets to be annouced on the 5th September.....

      http://betanews.com/2012/08/03/android-leads-ios-follows-windows-phone-shows-surprising-growth/

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

        > They ditched that dead and dying MeGo and Symbian crap

        The only reason those are dying is because they were ditched. In particular the N9 was still outselling Nokia WP7 even when it was not promoted and only available in certain countries.

        > the best mobile platform that there is

        A platform that is now dead, just like WM6.x was previously. No WP7 phone will get WP8. WP8 is yet another new platform running on different hardware and using different development, just like WM6 was killed by WP7.

        > before any one else large got a look in.

        HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. In what way are these not 'large'. They were selling WP7 before Elop went to Nokia.

        > Windows Phone already sells 20% of the volume of the iphone

        I did notice that the announcement it claimed:

        "in the second quarter, the company doubled the sales of Lumia smarpthones, from 2 million in first quarter to 4 million".

        That looks like weasel words to me. is that 4m in q2 or 4m total of q1 + q2 ? It is also likely that these sales came at the expense of the other WP7 makers.

        > not bad for a new OS

        WP7 isn't 'new', it has been around 2 years and is now dead.

        1. Giles Jones Gold badge

          Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

          >A platform that is now dead, just like WM6.x was previously. No WP7 phone will get WP8. WP8 is yet another >new platform running on different hardware and using different development, just like WM6 was killed by WP7.

          Dead? it may have a low market share but that doesn't make it dead. Linux has a tiny desktop marketshare but that doesn't make it dead either.

          Windows Mobile had huge smartphone marketshare at one point. The only reason Android does so well is the business model. Free unless you need Google's apps.

          The original poster is quite right in that it is probably the most original and decent mobile platform. Android is a knock off of iOS (okay, it's been developed a lot more since then) and iOS is a sort of PalmOS for the 2000s.

          Most people are highly critical of what they haven't used. You can't judge WP7 purely on screenshots and videos. You have to use it and I bought a 2nd hand Lumia 800 to give it a go. It beats iOS in speed and the way it integrates social media and all your information into one stream. I prefer it's visual style too, iOS looks a bit tired now.

          It's not all good of course, having an iPhone lets you buy dock alarm clocks and pipe music wirelessly very easily. But I still have an old iPad for that.

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

            >> A platform that is now dead, just like WM6.x was previously. No WP7 phone will get WP8. WP8 is yet another >new platform running on different hardware and using different development, just like WM6 was killed by WP7.

            > Dead? it may have a low market share but that doesn't make it dead.

            It is not its market share that makes it dead, but the disjoint between WP7 and the replacement WP8. WM6.x was killed when it was replaced by WP7 with no ability to update devices from one to the other. In that case it wasn't even possible to transfer apps or development.

            WP7 devices will not be updated to WP8. While most WP7 apps will be able to be ported to WP8 (apparently a conversion or recompile is required) it seems that development for WP8 will not run on WP7.

            THAT is what makes WP7 a dead-end.

            > Windows Mobile had huge smartphone marketshare at one point.

            And WP7 made WM a dead-end. Some sales continued after WP7 was released but that seemed to be corporates who had WM apps that were stuck on a dead-end system.

            > The only reason Android does so well is the business model.

            No. The reason it does so well is that users buy it. Whether it is free to the maker or not is almost irrelevant, a few dollars difference in cost.

            > I bought a 2nd hand Lumia 800

            2nd hand ? already ? Why did the original user want to dump it ? To buy an Android Phone ?

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. RAMChYLD
        Mushroom

        Re: The ex-MS-beancounter Trojan Horse is doing its hitjob...

        I still refuse to get a WinPho device. No XBox Live and Zune in Malaysia, and the store is still extremely restricted, meaning that a WinPho device only has basic phone functions- and at it's price, even one of those cheap no brand Chinaphones is much more desirable.

        Even the fruity toy maker has launched Music and Movie store support last month, and Sony has launched the PSN store over two years ago, and the chocolate factory has Google Play music and movies since their launch. And MS has still not made a move.

        I was told that MS still thinks that Malaysia has lousy broadband connections. 20Mbps not good enough for you then MS? Your funeral.

  4. Majid

    QT has come a long way.

    I remember in its early days it was a bit flacky, but nowadays it is very good. Although I can understand if you are not using the framework yourself anymore, because you went full DotNet that maintaining an open source C++ gui framework with a hunderd developers that will not generate any revenue doesn't make much sense, financially speaking. But strategically it might be a poor choice to sell it off.. Time will tell.

  5. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. AB
    FAIL

    @RICHTO

    "Dead and dying MeGo [sic] and Symbian crap"?

    Your comment implies that Nokia ditched MeeGo because it was dying, whereas the truth is that they buried two innovative and commercially successful/viable platforms, then killed them. If Harmattan had been given the promotion that Nokia's WP mess has been given, there's no telling what could have been achieved. I think you know how disingenuous your comment is.

    Further, your link (http://betanews.com/2012/08/03/android-leads-ios-follows-windows-phone-shows-surprising-growth/) talks about WP shipments, not sales. If I'm willing to waste enough money, I can ship any amount of anything to anyone anywhere; doesn't mean much, though. Shame that consumers aren't really biting, even with the massive discounting on Nokia Lumia.

    Your homework: which sold more in the 3 months on the market: the wildly over-promoted Lumia, or the buried-before-during-and-after-release N9, which wasn't even released in many countries?

    Note: "sold" here takes its traditional meaning, i.e. "a consumer voluntarily handed over their cash in return for taking the device away and using it", not s"some marketing budget got moved around, some incentives were given, some lies were told and someone blogged about the whole process".

    No rush. I think you know the answer, but go ahead and post more fail if you've got nothing better to do.

    1. Chemist

      Re: @RICHTO

      "post more fail if you've got nothing better to do."

      He hasn't - he's been posting cr*p like this all over The Reg recently (and being downvoted like no-one I've ever seen)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @RICHTO

        @Chemist: Yes, he (probably wrongly, but that's besides the point) said something positive about MS/WP/Nokia. You don't get away with that shit here any more, without an avalanche of downvotes. Pathetic really.

        1. Chemist

          Re: @RICHTO

          "You don't get away with that shit here any more, without an avalanche of downvotes"

          You've obviously not read the reams of similar garbage he's put out in the last month or so - troll or fool who knows ?

        2. AB

          @AC

          I downvoted RICHTO for his total mischaracterisation of what really happened with MeeGo & Symbian, no for "saying something positive about MS/WP/Nokia", and I'll wager others have done the same as I have. Nice straw man.

        3. McToo
          FAIL

          Re: @AC 16:28 (prob RICHTO posting Anon) @RICHTO

          The usual M.O. is to make a snide comment about one of MS's competitors, followed by a load of B.S. telling us how good MS products are. Even more pathetic IMHO.

    2. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: @RICHTO

      'Shipments into the channel' means that some vendor agreed to pay for them. Mobile phones are not on Sale or Return... So whilst your pedantry is a nice try, it is also a fail. If this were the first quarter they were on sale it might be a small consideration for vendors to hold stock, but as WP is already in the channel, these are mostly to replace new sales.

      Who cares how much of it is subsidised by marketing budget, Microsoft can afford it. It's still nothing like the iPhone which seems to have an advert on the TV every 5 minutes...And Apple iphone carriers have to subsidise the product so much they often make a loss!

      WP is a better product than the competition and Microsoft will have to spend more money to advertise that fact. imo they are not advertising it anything like enough. Maybe that will change with the launch of WP8 and the technology lead the competition gets even bigger...After all, almost every day i read about another Apple or Android root exploit or another piece of Android or IOS Malware. Unlike on Windows Phone, which has 1 known non critical issue across all platform versions.

      1. James Gibbons
        Mushroom

        Re: @RICHTO

        Yes, and had I purchased a Nokia WP Lumia, how do you think I would feel about Balmer instantly bricking it by not allowing an upgrade to WP 8? What a POS phone! Who would ever want another after this experience?

        1. Not That Andrew
          Thumb Down

          Re: @RICHTO

          Don't be hysterical. If I had the misfortune to own a Nokia Lumia, it would still be perfectly functional. Not allowing updates to WinPho8 is stupid, but I have not heard of any being "bricked" or even remotely disabled as a result.

        2. RICHTO Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: @RICHTO

          You can run WP7.8 which gives you pretty much everything from WP8 that you have the hardware for!

          WP is still better than Android in this respect with many handsets neveer gettign any upgrades - versus Microsoft which ensure that all updates that apply are available for all handsets from all carriers...

          And older IOS devices cant be upgrade to the latest OS either!

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: @RICHTO

            > You can run WP7.8 which gives you pretty much everything from WP8 that you have the hardware for!

            The only thing that is claimed for WP7.8 is some minor update to the home screen, such as different sizes for the tiles and some additional colours.

            This will bring the appearance in line with 'the UI previously known as Metro', but is far short of 'pretty much everything'.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: @RICHTO

        > WP is a better product than the competition

        WP7 is dead. 7.8 may add some more prettiness to the home screen, but it is a dead product. Those vendors that have taken shipments prior to MS's announcements will be stuck with them and will not order more, so Q3 sales are likely to take a dive.

        WP8 has not yet been seen. It is a new, untried, product on new, untried, hardware.

        1. RICHTO Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: @RICHTO

          WP7 is no more dead than Windows 7. Every one knows a new version is coming but it will still sell.

          the same is true of Android 3x or IOS 4.x

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: @RICHTO

            > WP7 is no more dead than Windows 7. Every one knows a new version is coming but it will still sell.

            Your comparison is as flawed as everything else you say.

            Windows 7 PCs will be able to be install Windows 8 if anyone would want to do that. In fact many new W7 PCs will get the new version for free.

            WP7 devices are a dead end , they will never get WP8. In fact it is because the new version is coming, with no chance of getting an update, that few people wouldl buy a dead end WP7 phone (unless it is remaindered at below cost).

  7. dervheid
    Devil

    Can't be long now

    Until Nokia finally die. Thanks Microsoft. Thanks for nothing...

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Can't be long now

      Microsoft won't let Nokia die. Far too big an investment involved. Microsoft want to own the smartphone market again like they used to.

      Windows 8 is going to drive a lot of sales. The same interface will be on 60 million Xboxes, ~300 million Windows PCs, and various tablets and phones and consumers will quickly be familiar with it. Especially in the corporate sector - enteprises have been waiting for something secure to be available as alternative to the dying Blackberry...

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: Can't be long now

        > the dying Blackberry

        In Q2 Blackberry (12.5m), the "dying" Symbian (6.4m) and Bada all outsold WP7 (5.1m). And that is the end of the line for WP7.

        1. RICHTO Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Can't be long now

          WP sales increased ~ 278% - hardly the end of the line.

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: Can't be long now

            > WP sales increased ~ 278% - hardly the end of the line.

            We can add basic maths to the subjects that you are clueless about.

            > hardly the end of the line.

            No WP7 hardware will run WP8 and thus will cease being produced. It is the end of that line.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. RICHTO Silver badge
              Mushroom

              Re: Can't be long now

              The numbers are quoted from the link provided - cant you read?

              Your conclusion does not follow. I will still be able to buy Windows 7 PCs for at least a while after Windows 8 has launched - and the same will be true of WP7. Just like it is for the iphone 4 / 4S, and the many Android phones that dont run the latest OS version....

              1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: Can't be long now

                > I will still be able to buy Windows 7 PCs for at least a while after Windows 8 has launched - and the same will be true of WP7.

                Of course there will still be Win7 PCs. As I said these will be able to move to Windows 8, and probably 9, and will likely come with a free voucher for Windows 8. There is no disincentive for the PC.

                Win a WP7 phone though, it will _NOT_ get updated to WP8. There will be a WP7.8 with minor changes to the appearance. Anyone buying a WP7 phone should be told it is a complete dead end. You should also know that WP7 will not run on hardware designed for WP8, the two sets of specs are entirely incompatible.

                It may well be that WP7 phones will be available to buy for many years to come, increasingly in the bargain bins. While it may be true that Nokia 'sold' so many million into the channel in Q2 you can be sure that they won't be taking any more WP7 phones and will at least await WP8 so Q3 sales will almost none and Q4 may show some as production ramps up.

                > Just like it is for the iphone 4 / 4S,

                Actually Apple are usually good with iOS updates.

                > and the many Android phones that dont run the latest OS version....

                Even old versions of Android run most of the latest apps.

                1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                  Re: Can't be long now

                  > increasingly in the bargain bins

                  Just yesterday I saw an add for PAYG Nokia 610 with 45% off.

      2. foo_bar_baz
        WTF?

        Re: Can't be long now

        You really are delusional. When exactly did MS own the smarketphone market?

        wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Wide_Smartphone_Sales_Share.png

        1. RICHTO Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Can't be long now

          http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/13/apple-and-google-dominate-smartphone-space-while-other-vendors-scramble/

          Microsoft had 42% Marketshare in 2007, and 37% in 2006.

          "Microsoft’s former smartphone operating system, Windows Mobile, peaked at 50 percent of smartphone sales in Q2 2007"

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Can't be long now

            In the US - hardly the smartphone capital of the world back then...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can't be long now

        "Microsoft won't let Nokia die. "

        It's not their call.

      4. IGnatius T Foobar
        Thumb Down

        RICHTO == BARKTO

        I'm wondering whether the Microsoft fanboi "RICHTO" is actually Steve Barkto. You know who that is.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can't be long now

        RICHTO: "Microsoft won't let Nokia die. Far too big an investment involved"

        Au contraire, press reports suggest MS bunged Nokia a billion dollars. Let's assume that there's three times that amount in ongoing and implict support, total four billion. If they had to write the lot off that''s still fifty percent less than the write off when the Clowns of Redmond (tm) "invested" in Aquantive, which they bought for $6.3bn, and four scant years later they wrote off $6.2bn. Good strategic vision, deal making, and execution there, wouldn't you say?

        So abandoning Nokia would be small change for MS. But I don't thnk MS will, simply because they believe there's too much at stake in mobile, and they'll play it until the end. My expectation is that WP8 will continue as a third "ecosystem", but as with hardware, only the top two in the market will make a profit. MS persevered with the Xbox, which in net terms hasn't been very profitable, and I think WP8 will be a repeat of that scenario.

        If it starts to look like (a) phones remain essentially phones with a few extras, rather than (b) phones as the centrepiece of a digital life, then WP will get canned - but MS are currently betting big on the latter. I wouldn't be at all surprised for MS to buy ARM as a defensive stake in the REAL hardware design, although given the dismal incompetence of US companies taking over UK ones, that'd be another failure in the making....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Can't be long now

          I wouldn't be at all surprised for MS to buy ARM as a defensive stake in the REAL hardware design, although given the dismal incompetence of US companies taking over UK ones, that'd be another failure in the making....

          Please <diety of choice>, no, not that, ever, please pray that ARM remain the successful independant company they are now.

  8. Bad Beaver
    Happy

    Good

    Everything that is OUT of Nokia has a better chance of survival. And the people at Jolla are also very positive about this. Did I mention lately how utterly awesome the N9 is? It is scary awesome, despite its "outdated" hardware. I cannot wait what Jolla will pull off with MeeGo on fresh silicone. Probably will be able to levitate the device and cure cancer while idle.

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Good

      Nokia make very good handsets and have unique technology - like the Pure view 40 megapixel camera, and phones that dont break the moment they are dropped - unlike crapple devices..

      imo - that, combined with a unique OS offering in WP will eventually be a big winner...

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: Good

        > the Pure view 40 megapixel camera

        Pure View is Symbian based.

        1. petur
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: Good

          >> the Pure view 40 megapixel camera

          > Pure View is Symbian based.

          New keyboard please

        2. RICHTO Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Good

          Wrong: http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/03/nokia-confirms-pureview-windows-phone/

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: Good

            >> Pure View is Symbian based.

            > Wrong: http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/03/nokia-confirms-pureview-windows-phone/

            Perhaps you are unaware that in English the word 'is' indicates present tense. Pure View _IS_ Symbian based.

            From the article:

            """While the phone is capable of taking nice photographs, it’s running on Symbian Belle (now known as Nokia Bell)"""

            It may well be that at some point in the _future_ Pure View may be WP8 based.

            1. RICHTO Silver badge
              Mushroom

              Re: Good

              Pure View is a camera technology consisting of a 41MP sensor and a Carl Zeiss lens. It IS not tied to Symbian. If you said Pure View is current only available on Symbina handsets you would have been correct. Stating it is 'based' on Symbian is wrong - it is an OS independant hardware technology.

              1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: Pure View

                > Stating it is 'based' on Symbian is wrong - it is an OS independant hardware technology.

                The hardware is just a sensor and a lens, it is indifferent to the brand of lens or size of sensor. 'Pure view' is the _software_ that turns the sensor output into pictures (with some chippery). The software was developed for Symbian over 3 years and thus is 'Symbian based'. It is not entirely "OS independant [sic]" for example WP7 is entirely incapable of supporting it (partly due to limitations imposed by Microsoft).

                For WP8 (or Android) the software has to be completely rewritten.

                1. RICHTO Silver badge
                  Mushroom

                  Re: Pure View

                  Nice invention, but completely and utterly wrong. PureView itself is ENTIRELY hardware:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_808_PureView

                  1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                    one choice when buying in the consumer sector and that's Win8Re: Pure View

                    > PureView itself is ENTIRELY hardware:

                    While the current PureView 808 uses a particular lens and a specific sensor and other chippery, it would not do anything useful without the _software_. It is the firmware/software which drives the focussing and the image processor, sampling and scaling, converts the sensor output into an image and applies all the other factors.

      2. foo_bar_baz
        FAIL

        Re: Good

        RICHTO: 154 posts • joined Friday 6th July 2012 18:04 GMT

        It's almost like you're spewing MS propaganda as a job. ^^ Please go implode with Bob Vistakin and tone down with the nuke thumbnail. Your posts are duds.

        1. P. Lee Silver badge

          Re: Good

          Troll, not propagandist. A propagandist wouldn't include reference to docs which make him look irrelevant.

          He's right for 2006/7 but has glossed over the epic decline since then.

          The joy of selective quoting! :D

      3. Bad Beaver

        Re: Good

        No need to preach to the fanboys, man ;) No wonder people think you're a puppet.

        Nokia has always had the best hardware, nobody doubts it. Your audience here is simply adept enough to feel limited by a consumer-oriented OS like WP. It just doesn't do – yet – for Symbian or MeeGo Power Users.

  9. RICHTO Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Symbian or MeGo Power Users? lol. Now that's what i call an anachronism...

    1. Bad Beaver
      Paris Hilton

      It's guys like him ;)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdClPQpiHA&feature=player_embedded

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In hindsight, Nokia should have gotten into bed with Android when they still had the chance.

  11. Lionel Baden
    Trollface

    Popcorn !!

    Its tasting so much better reading all this :D

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Whatever Richto's on, I want some

    No, no, not the bad stuff that makes him believe that WP is a commercial success, and that MS and Nokia are anything other than mobile no-hopers squared.

    I'm after the stuff he's taking that gives him Olympian levels of self belief, in the face of a tsunami of evidence that contradicts his opinions and undermines his claims.

    1. RICHTO Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Whatever Richto's on, I want some

      New features, new devices, more manufacturers, more carriers are known and are happening with ther release of WP 8. That can only build on a sales profile that is seemingly following an exponential curve...

      Yes it could still fail, but recent indications are that is rapidly becoming a success. And Microsoft still have plenty of leeway to throw money at it if they need to...

      1. AB
        Trollface

        Re: Whatever Richto's on, I want some

        OK, I'll bite.

        > New features

        New features such as... what? Live Tiles (which everyone else has been calling widgets for a number of years)? Or what?

        > That can only build on a sales profile that is seemingly following an exponential curve...

        My local Bell Canada store (a flagship, by the way) has a large WP display in the window. As I have previously posted in these forums, the staff in there know next to nothing about WP. I went in there posing as an interested consumer, and at the time I asked the staff I spoke to weren't even sure if they had actually sold any WP7 devices at that store. They then asked me if I was interested in - you guessed it - iPhone or Android.

        > more carriers are known and are happening with ther release of WP 8

        I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. It's generally accepted that carriers like locked-down operating systems. Other than that, I'm not clear what WP offers. For instance, you stated earlier that all PureView needed was to be combined with a "unique" OS; well, WP is unique for sure, but so is Symbian. So what?

        > recent indications are that [WP] is rapidly becoming a success

        Why yes, I think I read something on El Reg forums recently where someone was saying something along those lines!

        > Microsoft still have plenty of leeway to throw money at it if they need to...

        If? Hah!

        Microsoft's terror of being left out of the mobile space has been in plain sight for many years. Many victims... err, partners have been drained of their lifeblood by Microsoft's helping hand. This latest episode with Nokia is no different, except in terms of sheer scale. Microsoft will spend any amount and play any number of dirty tricks to stay at this table. Of course, as a [wannabe/fake/trollolol?] Microsoft Munchkin, you already know this.

        As for MeeGo power users (2 E's, by the way - no need to thank me), we're still out here. MeeGo Harmattan received a major update last month, the community effort for the N9 is ongoing, and there are plenty of interesting things out there beyond Nokia; e.g. @jollamobile and the article this comments thread is for.

        I know it's unethical to feed the trolls, but sometimes it's just irresistible.

  13. RICHTO Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Im sure you are quite capable of using Google, but known features include:

    IE10 (IE9 was fastest browser when launched and has had fewer vulnerabilities than any major rival - liely IE10 will be similar)

    NFC inc tap and send

    Bluetooth file transfer

    Windows 8 kernel

    Multicore support

    Hardware graphics acceleration (inc in IE10)

    removable memory card support (not really required in a handset designed for cloud, but i guess a few want it)

    In app purchases

    Fully integrated Skype

    Fully integrated RCS-e

    Fully integrated Datasmart

    OTA updates

    Visual Voicemail

    Extended voice commands and search

    Cloud sync of all content

    Native code support.

    Hi res screen support

    Ultra high res camera support

    screenshots

    MS Wallet

    Resizable tiles

    Universal search

  14. TeeCee Gold badge

    Nice hate for WP7 around here.

    One problem. I have an Android ICS device. My son has a Lumia 610.

    The WP7 UI on the Lumia is slicker. A lot slicker and so much more intuitive that it isn't funny. It also handles transitions a sight more smoothly, despite being considerably less gifted in the horsepower department than my beastie.

    I can't help thinking that those who spout kneejerk hatred at WP7 just haven't ever used it in anger. I also reckon that Nokia may well have their money on the right horse, long term.

    I'm still sticking with the 'droid though. I want something I can play around with.

    1. AB
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

      I'm no great supporter of Android; I don't currently use Android on a day-to-day basis. I'm not "hating" on WP7 - just asking what makes it unique & special.

      RICHTO: nice list. I asked what was new. Most of the items you cite may be new to WP8, but arguably that's because WP7 is lacking a number of features which most people have been using for months or even many years on other platforms.

      IE10 (IE9 was fastest browser when launched and has had fewer vulnerabilities than any major rival - liely IE10 will be similar) - fastest how? The JavaScript engine? HTML render test? Or what? Mac OSX has had fewer known vulnerabilities than Windows XP/Vista/7 - does that make it a better OS? I'd suggest that it does not; perhaps you disagree...

      NFC inc tap and send - already in Nokia N9

      Bluetooth file transfer - already in everything ever (except iPhone)

      Windows 8 kernel - well yes, only Windows 8 will have a Windows 8 kernel! We have a winner!

      Multicore support - various mobile OS already in this space for quite some time

      Hardware graphics acceleration (inc in IE10) - various mobile OS already in this space for quite some time (except the IE10 bit)

      removable memory card support (not really required in a handset designed for cloud, but i guess a few want it) - great, but not unique to WP8

      In app purchases - are not unique to WP8

      Fully integrated Skype - is not unique to WP8 (had it on my N900 years ago)

      Fully integrated RCS-e - could be interesting, but is anyone using this yet? Also, didn't Nokia spec this out pre-Microsoft? Is this unique to WP8? If so, it will reduce usefulness; if not, it's not unique to WP8

      Fully integrated Datasmart - is not unique to WP8

      OTA updates - are not unique to WP8; again, welcome to 2008

      Visual Voicemail - is not unique to WP8 (seeing a pattern here?)

      Extended voice commands and search - etc. etc.

      Cloud sync of all content - I think Apple have some initi

      Native code support.

      Hi res screen support

      Ultra high res camera support

      screenshots

      MS Wallet

      Resizable tiles

      Universal search

      None of these are unique, except for one or two MS initiatives.

      I think you missed my point.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

        IE9 was fastest in Javascript and graphics at launch: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/girishp/archive/2011/03/15/internet-explorer-9-the-fastest-browser-in-the-market-released-to-the-world-go-get-it-and-enjoy-your-life.aspx

        I certainly disagree. In fact Mac OS-X has nearly EIGHT TIMES the vulnerabilities of Windows 7:

        http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/

        http://secunia.com/advisories/product/96/

        In fact about the only thing worse than OS-X for security is Linux:

        http://secunia.com/advisories/product/12192/

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

          > In fact about the only thing worse than OS-X for security is Linux:

          You show how clueless and shallow you are:

          The Windows link is for Windows 7 OS _only_.

          The Linux link is for a complete Distro, SUSE 10, which has several thousand packages, most of which have no equivalent in 'Windows 7'. In fact you only need to look at a listing of the advisories to see that they aren't for 'Linux' (which is the OS Kernel).

          If you actual want a valid comparison then go to the Microsoft page and add up the items from each of the software items.

          https://secunia.com/advisories/vendor/1/

          1. RICHTO Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

            Yes - Jeff Jones already did that (Google It). Linux still comes out much worse than Windows....

    2. William 15
      Meh

      Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

      Haters gonna hate, you know that. :)

      I have a WP7 phone, as does my wife, and I can tell you this -- it isn't all that this guy RICHTO tries to make it out to be. I'm not a power user as far as mobile phones go, nor do I ever plan to be, so the WP7 phone is enough for me. However, I don't think that there are anywhere near the quality of apps out there for WP7 as there are for iOS or Android. I have coworkers and friends that have both of the latter two, and from what I have seen with my own two eyes, the Apple and Android apps beat those for WP7 hands down. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place for WP7 apps, maybe they just don't exist.

      MS has a long way to go yet ... maybe WP8 will kick it up a notch and truly compete well; that remains to be seen. All I know is, if they can't figure out how to make an OS that does not require regular reboots, they'll never be as good as the other options out there. And yes, I am talking about the mobile OS -- if I don't reboot my phone regularly, audio for phone calls stops working, the screen doesn't always respond, calls aren't received but show up later as being missed, etc. I thought it was my phone at first, but my wife's does the same thing, and we have two different brands of phones. Seems like their mobile OS is released the same way as their desktop OS: fire, ready, aim.

      1. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

        Apps will come with OS market share.

        What there is at least very stable, generally of high quality and totally Malware free - unlike IOS and Android! Yes there are a very few well known apps missing, but versus the 100K apps available, its not a big deal.

      2. RICHTO Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Nice hate for WP7 around here.

        I have NEVER seen a current version Windows Phone need a reboot. Thats generally an Android 'feature'. Have you connected your phones to a PC and updated them in the last year?

  15. RICHTO Silver badge
    Mushroom

    And if you look at an environment where some brave souls actually use Linux- like Internet facing servers, the security incidents back this up. A Linux server is several time more likely to be hacked than a Windows one:

    http://www.zone-h.org/news/id/4737

  16. AB
    FAIL

    @RICHTO

    Although I'm of the opinion that you are in fact a masochistic troll, here's some free advice just in case you are sincere: you should probably take the time & trouble to actually read these articles you post, because that last one contradicts your claims.

    "A few brave souls actually [using] Linux-like Internet facing servers"? Like, oh, let me pick one at random: Google? I know you know what Google is, because you've been referring us to it so we can check your 'facts'.

    Zone-H is probably not a reliable source of statistics for the purposes you are using them for: http://www.gamelinux.org/?cat=4&paged=3

    Finally: you're clearly a fan of Zone-H. They're serving their webpages from nginx. Have a guess what OS they're probably running behind that?

    Credit where credit is due, Windows is fine for what it's good at. I have personally bought two Windows 7 licenses; it's a fairly decent "let's just get things done" client OS. However, as everyone here except you is already aware, your claims that it is somehow inherently more secure than Linux, especially as a server OS, are laughable and without merit.

    Next.

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