back to article E-Cat pitching cold fusion to Australians

A company established in January 2012 is offering the Rossi E-Cat (“energy catalyzer”) to Australians. E-Cat Australia is offering pre-orders for a 1MW unit with “an estimated delivery time of 3 months”, and allowing people to pre-register for a domestic unit promising shipping in 2013. Attempts had been made to promote E-Cat …

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  1. LaeMing Bronze badge
    Go

    So if it doesn't work...

    ...will it be blamed on the arrangement of furniature in the associated house?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So if it doesn't work...

      "...will it be blamed on the arrangement of furniature in the associated house?"

      No, it will be blamed on your inability to spell.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Mushroom

        Re: So if it doesn't work...

        See the user's Handle?

        Maybe English is not their primary language, or maybe it is their primary language, but are multilingual so flip between languages faster that you can go from being a nice person to being an obnoxious tool.

        So stop being such a dick, not everyone on The Reg. may be a native English speaker, it's a fact of life, if you can't cope with that, go bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away,

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So if it doesn't work...

          I think the only Dicks here are the sneerers and scoffers. Boy, are you lot in for one hell of a shock, when you realise that your uninformed knee-jerk reactions are wrong.

          Stupid, stupid, stupid, sheep.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So if it doesn't work...

            G'day, Bruce! ;)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So if it doesn't work...

            Where's the 1m of lead shielding then, for the gamma radiation? ;)

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So if it doesn't work...

            Bit of a Freudian slip was it? thinking of Dick Smith and his $1000,000 challenge perhaps? ;)

          4. Robert Brockway
            Linux

            Re: So if it doesn't work...

            It's very easy to say such things anonymously isn't it? I wonder if you speak to people like this face to face.

  2. Callam McMillan
    Paris Hilton

    Snake oil and flying pigs?

    The funny thing is that even a fully fledged conman would probably not even try this for it being too outlandish!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Snake oil and flying pigs?

      Similar to the 419 spammers - pick something so outlandish, so trivially disprovable, that anybody with more than a quantum of common-sense and skepticism would flee, and the only people left investing are so blindingly stupid that you needed worry about them filing charges against you, as they are barely able to draw breath and metabolize at the same time.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Snake oil and flying pigs?

      According to a poll on e-catworld.com 18% of respondents are ready to buy a domestic heating unit even before it's been shown to be economically viable. Shills, nutters, victims or forward thinkers? Yeah, I know.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Snake oil and flying pigs?

      Funny you should mention that....

  3. Ginger

    honestly

    Stop giving these guys airtime.

    1. Yesnomaybe

      Re: honestly

      I was thinking the same:"Why is the Reg continuing to cover this story?"

      And I guess the answer is: Because we all wish it wasn't a hoax.

  4. Oninoshiko
    Go

    elReg

    I for one want you to keep following this.

    I'm fairly sure it's a scam (put cold fusion only slightly more credible then perptual motion). Even if it is, it should be good fun to watch, and if it's not (not that I'm expecting anything here) it would be nice to know. I'm a winner either way!

    Proceed with this nonsense at flank speed!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: elReg

      Put the kettle on, get some popcorn and put your feet up, is my advice.

  5. Just a geek
    Trollface

    I agree with keep following it. Always good when a scam is exposed.

    "However, the E-Cat has been a hit among green energy enthusiasts as a "save the world" technology."

    Proof that the green energy lot really are as stupid as they look.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Greens don't know about neutron bursts in their kitchen.

      Or that, if this actually worked, the removal of the last impediment to full-scale industrialization would transform the whole of Earth overnight into a glittering BALL OF MEGATECH WITH DEAD PANDAS EVERYWHERE!

      1. Robert Brockway
        Linux

        It's ok. If we had that much energy we could build them a new habitat in orbit.

    2. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge
      Devil

      Oh Puleez don't be so insulting...

      I've got a group of Greenies who are interested. I've got this bridge where I'm selling them the rights to charge a toll for crossing. Their upside is that once they get enough money to buy one of these E-Cat devices, they can raise the toll so high that only a fool would want to drive across it, thus reducing the congestion in the city on the other side of the bridge.

      So they are very sharp indeed, so please stop insulting them. At least until they close my deal.

    3. AdamWill
      Facepalm

      Proof?

      "Proof that the green energy lot really are as stupid as they look."

      Yes, an unattributed assertion certainly is proof!

      Back in the real world, would Mr. Chirgwin care to provide some evidential support for this reflex greeny-bashing? (Especially since one reasonable criticism you _can_ level at the mainstream environmental lobby is its unfortunate tendency towards knee-jerk opposition to anything with 'nuclear' in the name?)

    4. gmciver

      Some evidence about green energy enthusiasts being this gullible? As opposed to some green energy enthusiasts being as gullible as the population at large.

      As it stands this is just an allegation about some people the author doesn't like.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "As it stands this is just an allegation about some people the author doesn't like."

        I see you got down-voted for expressing a fact, there.

        Kudos.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "However, the E-Cat has been a hit among green energy enthusiasts as a "save the world" technology."

      Citation? I'm all up for green energy (ie: Investment in ACTUAL fusion), but this is clearly toss. I don't think the majority of people interested in green energy would disagree, either. Where are you pulling the idea that any coherent group considers this viable?

      "Proof that the green energy lot really are as stupid as they look."

      Proof that you seized upon a rather fictitious comment about a very large group of people and felt the need to use that to strengthen your own perceptions by making a public and idiotic statement.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        How about the people that thought fuel cells were a primary source of energy, and many still do. Lots of investment money was skimmed off in that way. Of course, it is conveniently not mentioned that you will need sh*tloads of actual fuel to run them on, like, say ethanol made from fossil fuel sources, or from *food* sources, or hydrogen made by using energy from, well, the usual suspects ..... like nuclear or coal.

        1. AdamWill

          "How about the people that thought fuel cells were a primary source of energy, and many still do"

          I don't think anybody would complain about the general idea that lots of people are gullible idiots when it comes to energy. Or Science in general. We were more ticked off at the gratuitous suggestion, unencumbered with evidence of any kind, that such stupidity was specific to 'the green energy lot'.

      2. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge
        FAIL

        @AC

        Why the anonymous post?

        I doubt anyone is against real fusion work, even if it's still just 50 years off...

        We all want cheap, plentiful, energy from a source that doesn't pollute and can't be turned into a WMD.

        But the 'Greenies' take this to an extreme point of view without thinking about the consequences.

        It's typical of all political groups these days... But that's a different story..

        Anyone who buys into this bunk deserves to be taken in by this con.

        Had it been real, it would have been patented world wide ASAP. He would have opened the device for the entire world to see and he and his lawyers would be extremely wealthy.

        While we both agree that this device is Bollox, you associate w a party of loons.

  6. Tony W

    Believing what you want to believe

    "Proof that the green energy lot really are as stupid as they look." So, Just a geek, you believe without any evidence that "it has been a hit among green energy enthusiasts".

    So! That's proof that - oh hang on, it's no proof of anything, it's just the internet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Believing what you want to believe

      @tony w - there's evidence, but you probably need to be an aussie to recognise that mullimbimby is greenie central. It's no more controversial than stating that marble, glass and columns will go down well in cheshire.

  7. Chad H.

    Hmmm

    Strangely reminds me of a pitch on I think it was Canadian Dragons Den (or perhaps Shark Tank US...) where some guy proposed to build a giant energy machine that used the coriolis effect to create a vortex that somehow through fusion ended up with gold as a waste product... A fool and his money.

  8. Goat Jam
    Holmes

    This is going to be a world changer

    Just like "Adams Platform" was.

  9. Katie Saucey
    WTF?

    Ok...

    ...so July 16 in Canada translates to April 1st in Australia, learn something new everyday I guess.

  10. David Hicks
    Go

    However, the E-Cat has been a hit among...

    ...green energy enthusiasts morons as a "save the world" technology.

    Keep up the good work, these conmen need the light of day shined on them, and I for one enjoy it when they get shot down.

    Although some of them seem to keep ticking over for years as true believers continue to try and make their revolutionary technology work through sheer bloody mindedness, even though it's now established it can't and never has. (Orbo, I'm looking at you)

  11. Winkypop Silver badge
    Flame

    I'm sure it provides a great source of usable energy

    ...when the unit is set afire.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm sure it provides a great source of usable energy

      It might need no help to set itself on fire, if it has, as some suspect, deliberately non-standard wiring in its power supply cord, something along the lines of an extra wire parallel inside next to one of the 2 standard wires, then kind of- cross-wired in the supply plug, and cunningly wired at the "on-switch" with a 2-pole-2-throw switch which, surprise surprise, may well supply power in both positions. (6 contacts, 2 positions) They might wanna check at the power meter of the building to see what is being drawn ... ;)

      Let's see it work with a standard power cable fitted by a neutral observer ;) Doesn't have a standard "kettle" IEC socket on it? - gosh, no, whadda surprise. Can still wire in a cable, why not? Is it not safe or something? ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm sure it provides a great source of usable energy

        X-ray its power cable, can be done at any airport... portable versions also. Maybe an ultrasound gadget would also show up the wires.... in the cable at least, big density difference..

  12. Dave Bell

    Back in the day, it was worth a company putting some corporate small-change into checking the Cold Fusion claims. It was the Pascal's Wager of its time: the cost was low and the potential pay-off was huge.

    This time around, it has all the features of a scam.

  13. BorkedAgain
    Thumb Up

    Cold Fusion is good for one thing at least...

    It makes for an excellent plot point in a movie.

    I have Keanu on hold, just in case...

  14. saundby

    Dick Smith

    Does the eCat use any Z-80s?

    Thought not.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dick Smith

      No, just a kettle lead. ;)

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  15. Richard Jukes

    Erm?

    Have you guys read the website? Watched the video's? Or researched this at all? I have, I think it could be plausible that this may work. Watch the video available on the E-Cat site, it is quite informative.

    Granted, I'll admit that Andre Rossi is a convicted criminal and has done fraud before... ;-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Erm?

      "Have you guys read the website? Watched the video's?"

      This would be proof - how ?

    2. David Hicks
      FAIL

      Re: Erm?

      Yes I have looked into this. The story seems to be this -

      Brave Maverick Scientists(TM) discovers totally implausible new scientific process which will revolutionise the world! But only if he can have your money, now! No, there will be no scientific or regulatory oversight!

      It's got scam painted all over it in huge letters, regardless of his history. The fact that he's got fraud convictions from previous scams is just icing on the cake. And no, none of it is 'quite informative' in the face of the fact he won't let anyone verify his apparent 'results', his video is nothing but propaganda and part of the scam.

    3. Mr Temporary Handle
      WTF?

      Re: Erm?

      This is obviously some new use of the word "plausible" which I've not previously encountered.

      I would ask you to explain in more detail but I'm rather concerned that you might actually do so.

    4. Yesnomaybe

      Re: Erm?

      ....."Granted, I'll admit that Andre Rossi is a convicted criminal and has done fraud before... ;-)"

      Don't worry Richard, I think it was funny. Bit too subtle for others.

      1. David Hicks
        Meh

        Re: Erm?

        "Don't worry Richard, I think it was funny. Bit too subtle for others."

        In my defence I'd like to offer up Poe's law....

        1. Yesnomaybe

          Re: Erm?

          Sustained.

  16. Purlieu

    re: Does the eCat use any Z-80s?

    No the banks clearing system cornered the market of them some years ago

  17. Gary Wright

    Are there any laws against false advertizing in Australia?

    They are advertizing a 1MW plant, requiring a $500,000 deposit, with delivery in 3 months, and these plants do not even exist in the real world. Not one has been built that operates as claimed.

    Maybe someone should complain to the part of government there in Australia that deals in false advertizing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Plus, the customer WILL need heavy water.If it does what it says. Ordinary water doesn't have the required neutrons.. ;) No mention of this, so far? Or does Mr Neutron do doorstep deliveries, like the milkman? ;)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Gary Wright

      Done - I've lodged a formal complaint with the ACCC.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Gary Wright

        And it doesn't look even remotely like a cat, but maybe there's one hidden inside pounding along inside a treadmill, hope they don't forget to feed it ;)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      1MW? There's no way I can get that out of any of my wall sockets, do they have special ones? ;)

  18. beep54
    Happy

    I am sorry, but Cold Fusion is only be allowed as the name for a rock n roll band. It IS a wicked cool name :)

    1. Craig Chambers

      Or perhaps a web app development platform?

      I'm afraid Macromedia (now Adobe) beat you to it. Naming your band Cold Fusion to me sounds the same as naming your band Photoshop. Alright, it's a slightly less well known product, but the same outcome.

  19. SeeSider
    FAIL

    What's the matter with you guys?

    You're going to look like some of the biggest cretins on the planet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But endearingly, you don't seem too worried about yourself, bit new here, are you?

  20. Nev Silver badge
    FAIL

    Next Up...

    Company on eBay claims magnets increase your car's fuel efficiency....

  21. Flegma
    Flame

    Ignorance

    Before commenting people, please inform yourself about the subject, most people here don't have a clue. The e-cat is real and will change the energylandscape forever.

  22. hplasm Silver badge
    Meh

    Buy one-

    and prove it to us, then.

  23. Pete the not so great
    Go

    Ive got an Antimatter powered egg boiler

    No you can't see it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ive got an Antimatter powered egg boiler

      I've got two, and use them as nipple-rings.

      A/C, because I don't want co-workers to get jealous.

  24. sugar_tits

    I'm as skeptical as anyone on Rossi but there is definitely something to be excited about in the recent breakthroughs of various parties regarding LENR/nickel hydrogen reactions.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Doesn't happen with Ni and H, anywhere in the known universe, despite the rather obvious equipment advantages of stars. Coulomb barrier. Would produce rather a lot of Gamma radiation anyway, as would using neutrons instead, clearly Rossi's tinfoil would not stop that radiation. How about we plug it into a portable petrol or diesel generator with a metered 240VAC output and see how much juice it is drawing? No need to rewire anything, my guess is we will need a genny with more than 4.5kW output ;)

      1. MacDroid

        I wouldn't use that kind of logic for this...

        OK, where in the universe does elemental nickle come into contact with pressurized pure hydrogen gas? The only place I'm aware of that happening is here on earth when humans do it. The only place this might happen is in a star, and even then the percentage of heat produced by the Ni process would probably be abysmally small. So can you really use the logic that it doesn't happen anywhere else in the universe? Using that logic iPhones shouldn't exist because they do not exist anyplace else in the universe.

        Cheers, Frank

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I wouldn't use that kind of logic for this...

          I think your answers are respectively-

          -the sun contains a significant abundance of nickel, and is primarily composed of hydrogen

          -the sun does not fuse hydrogen with nickel, it still has mostly nickel not copper despite the high temperatures and pressure for billions of years.

          -copper IS produced, but in older cooler stars like Red Giants, they produce magnesium plus a neutron, and the neutrons are used in nickel-neutron reactions to make copper, hydrogen is not used.

          -the natural isotope ratio of copper on Earth and elsewhere show that this has happened

          http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/12/05/the-nuclear-physics-of-why-we/

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. MacDroid

            Re: I wouldn't use that kind of logic for this...

            Re: I wouldn't use that kind of logic for this...

            "copper IS produced, but in older cooler stars like Red Giants, they produce magnesium plus a neutron, and the neutrons are used in nickel-neutron reactions to make copper, hydrogen is not used."

            So, even without a lattice structure to load hydrogen as a potential neutron donor (can't see a crystal lattice existing in a red giant) there are nickel neutron reactions.

            Still, pure hydrogen loading a metallic latice does not exist in the universe except here, so any reasoning that involves probabilities any where else in the universe is flawed.

            It is flawed physics not take mans ability to alter probabilities into account when explaining a process. Think about it, how many fissile explosions would occur on the surface of the earth if man were not present? The probability of a such explosions without man's influence is much lower than with. The same applies to fusion as well.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Mr Tits, trust me, you'ŗe not even close. As you know very well.

  25. Horridbloke
    Gimp

    It's a convoluted promotion

    Remember Steorn, the company that tried it on with their magnets 'n' motors based perpetual motion machine several years ago? A few people suspected it was a weird promotional thing for Halo 3. I suspect this latest one is to raise interest in Halo 4.

    (I see Steorn still has a web site. The page about the Orbo is an amusing goobledegook comedown from the previous grand claims.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's a convoluted promotion

      I think "Orbo" is a great Irish name for a gadget, "oi Deano, pass me the Orbo, be a good lad now!"

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Up in smoke

    Isn't Mullumbimby the dope capital of Australia?

  27. Bucky 2
    Pint

    Segue

    Oh, you nasty skeptics, you.

    It wasn't so long ago that we were all pooh-poohing the Segway.

    But look at us now--in our re-thought cities--zooming around in our two-wheeled wonder-crafts, with our legs de-evolving beneath us before our very eyes.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, if it makes copper, then surely we can test it in controlled circumstances where it extrudes a nice coppery ingot or a lurrveley green or blue coppery solution, which absolutely haven't been placed it it beforehand? Of course it would produce one of the few nice showy (and cheap) *coloured* metals or compounds wouldn't it, not one of the boring ordinary grey ones ....... ;)

    Incidentally, by my reckoning, each individual Nickel atom is, in addition to gaining 1 proton i.e. bog-standard hydrogen nucleus with no neutron, is going to need to gain about 4 neutrons per atom to make it into one Copper atom. So who's donating all the extra neutrons, the Salvation Army? Some other atoms going on a neutron-reduction diet? Ov. not the hydrogen, unless it is almost pure deuterium or tritium ;)

    And if so, then they must show that their company has a BIG appetite for honest-to-goodness high-grade heavy water. :) Oh and it needs to turn into neutron-depleted heavy water afterwards otherwise no dice.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And, what's to stop it making radioactive copper, if it did anything, and where actually is the energy coming from, which atomic component is losing mass exactlly? Seems like none of them, so far.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Of course you might wanna check that the "neutron depleted" heavy water isn't remarkably similar to local tapwater, distilled or not, or Evian, or Halfords finest vintage Eau for topping up batteries.

      Plus, if they are using heavy water as they need to be, then they prob need an official license and supplier, who should normally be willing to say so, otherwise it's all a bit naughty?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    *cough*

    http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/12/05/the-nuclear-physics-of-why-we/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: *cough*

      There sure are a lot of 'turfers in here downvoting all the sceptics ;)

  30. Libertynewspost

    "Cold Fusion" LENR Primer

    What a bunch of ignorant hicks here. If you can read you should educate yourself on what "Cold Fusion" or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) really is. Also, to sell any type of power source you need to get the the proper regulatory certifications which are currently in the process. If the E-cat shows up you can be sure that it works.

    The list of organizations who have verified that it is real and viable continues to grow:

    NASA, DARPA, National Laboratories, M.I.T...

    There are at least four companies that are racing to the market:

    Here is M.I.T's site:

    http://jet.xvm.mit.edu/

    Check out this power point:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/99464146/Final-Lenr-Market-Development-Ilents12-Ppt03-By-Jim-Dunn

    This Video:

    http://youtu.be/wu18QvNLl_Y

    Short History:

    http://nucat-energy.com/low-energy-nuclear-reactions/short-history/

    Background Info:

    http://lenr-canr.org/

    Companies that plan to release a "Cold Fusion Product:

    http://ecat.com/

    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/

    http://www.brillouinenergy.com/

    http://jet.xvm.mit.edu/

    Current Industry News:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/

    Don't be ignorant.

    1. Esskay
      Stop

      Re: "Cold Fusion" LENR Primer

      Your link to "M.I.T's Site" is actually a link to "Jet Energy", a company that appears to play up the "discovery" of cold fusion by Pons & Fleischmann in 1989, and *all* citaions for information on the site are from a single author (M. Schwartz), and his Journal articles only appear in the "Journal of Cold Fusion" (which has previously accepted articles that were rejected by the journal "Nature"), or "The Journal of New Energy".

      I believe Defkallion were originally linked to e-cat (and haven't had a working, verifiable demonstration of their machine), nor have Brillouin, nor have AmpEnergo.

      And if the proper "regulatory certifications" haven't been obtained, why then is ecat.com accepting preorders?!

      The entire history of cold fusion is frought with experiments whose results can't be replicated, and experiments that have demonstrated no excess energy being created. The scepticism of the wider scientific community is not ignorance - in fact it is due to an acute awareness of the number of attempts that have been made to replicate the Pons & Fleischmann experiment, and the number of times the results have demonstrated no excess energy being created.

      Since you're obviously not ignorant, I suppose you're also aware of the number of experiments that have demonstrated differing results from those obtained in the original experiment? Science doesn't progress by holding onto hunches and wishful thinking - Rossi can make all the scepticism go away - just produce something that works, and can be verified independently. Until that happens, why should anyone believe him?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2012/Report-4-Rossis-NASA-Test-Fails-to-Launch.shtml

  32. Libertynewspost

    Cure

    Ignorance can be corrected. Stupidity, well, that may be a choice.

  33. Libertynewspost

    Cold Fusion Energy - For the Ignorant: Yes, it Really is True!

    For those who may have just stumbled upon the reality of "Cold Fusion" it can be a somewhat Buck Roger like experience, like waking up in the future and wondering "How did that happen?".

    http://libertynewspost.blogspot.com/2012/07/cold-fusion-energy-for-ignorant-yes-it.html

    1. Esskay
      FAIL

      Re: Cold Fusion Energy - For the Ignorant: Yes, it Really is True!

      I was wondering why someone had signed up just two days ago in order to post comments solely on this story. Now I realise - it's to push their own website.

      I'm still yet to see independently verified results that demonstrate how "true" cold fusion is - but you'll be presenting those to us shortly, no?

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