back to article Firefox 13 now available for download

Although its official release date is not scheduled until this Tuesday, Firefox 13 is now available on the Mozilla website. Notable among the upgraded features in Firefox 13 are redesigned Home and New Tab pages. The Home page – accessible rather intuitively by entering about:home in the address field – allows easy access to …

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  1. edge_e
    Stop

    utter madness

    What happened to proper version numbers?

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: utter madness

      What happened? Marketing happened.

      1. asdf Silver badge

        Re: utter madness

        Chrome happened.

        1. FrankAlphaXII
          Thumb Up

          Re: utter madness

          Correction, Chrome and its stupid stealth updates happened. Does any chrome user that hasn't just downloaded it actually know what version they're on without checking?

          I thought not.

          1. JDX Gold badge

            Re: utter madness

            >>Does any chrome user that hasn't just downloaded it actually know what version they're on without checking?

            No and that's the point.

        2. Ian Johnston
          Thumb Down

          Re: utter madness

          I'm using Chrome (on Ubuntu). I have been using it since it came out, just about. I have absolutely no idea what version it is, and I don't care. I doubt I'm unusual in that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: utter madness

      I hope they have addressed the bloat....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sleazebag Trick

      "Mozilla... is now releasing updates and six-week cadence. Expect Firefox 14 on July 17, 15 on August 28, and so on."

      This is actually one of the reason that I am not updating my FF3 - Mozilla's new versioning system just says "sleazebag trick" to me.

      (Another reason, in the same vein, is here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775. Having someone as dishonest as Asa Dotzler involved in a project kind of makes me not want to use the software...)

      1. toadwarrior
        Facepalm

        Re: Sleazebag Trick

        Are you sticking with IE6 too?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @toadwarrior

          "Re: Sleazebag Trick

          Are you sticking with IE6 too?"

          No.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: utter madness

      I have version 12 do I need 13?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Here we go again

      I am sick and tired of these Firefox updates and am seriously considering going back to Internet Explorer.

  2. Peter2 Silver badge

    Question for Firefox users

    1) Did you know about the Firefox Extended Support Release (ESR) that runs on a less frequent release schedule?

    2) Are you using the ESR updated version at home instead of the normal release?

    Just wondering how many other people are running ESR instead of having quit Firefox for an alternate browser.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Question for Firefox users

      Yup, Mozilla makes ESR *extremely* hard to find on their site, but when I stumbled across it some months ago, I immediately adopted it. It was 10.0.0.3ESR, and it's only had one security patch to 10.0.0.4ESR a week or so ago.

      1. Simon2

        Re: Question for Firefox users

        No I didn't know about this! Whats the difference/advantage? How do I find it so I can try it out? Do you have a URL?

        1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

          @Simon2

          "Do you have a URL?"

          Sure, here you go; http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all.html

          Just so you know, here's a quote from the FAQ:

          "Releases will be maintained for approximately one year, with point releases containing security updates coinciding with regular Firefox releases. The ESR will also have a two cycle (12 week) overlap between the time of a new release and the end-of-life of the previous release to permit testing and certification prior to deploying a new version."

          Translation: To us, one year is a long time so the current Expected Stable Release is 10.0.4 and 10.0.x is scheduled to die at 10.0.8 which should overlap the second ESR of the next series which should be 17.0.1.

        2. FrankAlphaXII

          Re: Question for Firefox users

          >>No I didn't know about this! Whats the difference/advantage? How do I find it so I can try it out? Do you have a URL?

          If you're deploying it across a corporate network the advantage is that it doesnt update. The disadvantage is you're running old code with its associated problems. It seems to me that alot of the complaining here comes from the "IE 6 is best because it never updates" mindset.

          Yet these same people bitched and moaned endlessly about IE 6's security and usability problems.

          Grow the fuck up. If you want a browser that never updates, never implements new features, and has security holes the size of the grand canyon, you can always find a way to Kludge IE 6 onto your PC. Chrome updates silently all the time, IE's getting to be the same way, and Opera is, well, Opera. Nothing wrong with it, but it not my cup of tea.

          Really, if you want something that doesn't update often, there's always Seamonkey, but its bloated because its an Internet Application Suite, much like the old school Netscape applications were. Some people like that. I personally dont.

          But hell, Im a Mozilla Firefox beta tester and Ive been on Firefox 13 since about March (IIRC) so don't take my word for it as obviously I have a bias, but don't knock the new version until you've tried it, I think a great many of you will like the improvements.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge
            WTF?

            Re: Question for Firefox users

            Have to agree here. I use Aurora, it updates at least once every two days and somehow life still goes on. I'm afraid I don't get people who say 'I left Firefox for Chrome because Firefox is at version 12 and that's silly' when standard Firefox gets far fewer updates than Chrome and ESB Firefox gets even fewer updates.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Question for Firefox users

            Frank, you really missed the point here.

            Most of us who are on the ESR chose it because we were getting tired of pointless and annoying changes to the UI and we don't like having to install 200 plugins just to keep the useful features that kept being removed.

            Note also that we are most definitely not the same crowd that is hanging on to IE6.

            As for seamonkey being 'bloated' relative to firefox, this has not been the case for quite some time now - even just on the install packages, there's only 3 megs difference. Seamonkey works fine on my ancient laptop, whereas firefox makes it grind to a halt.

            But swearing at us makes you big and clever, so obviously I must be completely wrong.

    2. edge_e

      Re: Question for Firefox users

      Debian are still patching 3.5

      1. Ole Juul

        Re: Question for Firefox users

        Debian are still patching 3.5

        Good on them - because that version works perfectly well. I just hope version 13 will still render HTML.

    3. Bucky 2
      Pint

      Re: Question for Firefox users

      This is actually very good information.

      Most people are just going to Google for "Firefox Download" and get here:

      http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/fx/

      There don't seem to be any links from this page to the ESR download page.

      Even if a casual user did stumble upon it, the ESR pages warn in big letters: "Firefox ESR is intended for groups who deploy and maintain the desktop environment in large organizations," which clearly rule out a single user.

      I'd argue that the frequent updates aren't a problem for their frequency per se, but because the last several updates have been BFD affairs as far as the end user is concerned, reinforcing a "why even bother" attitude.

      1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

        Re: Question for Firefox users

        That might just have me going and having a look to use as a backup browser. The moz team lost me at 12 when on my Win7 laptop a bare install of FF would crash on start, every time, no plug-ins, no add-ons and java disabled. Same across all users, even a new account, so it wasn't a corrupt profile. Oh well, moved Iron to default but I'd rather use something other than IE as second string.

      2. Peter2 Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Question for Firefox users

        As you say, that was seen coming by most of us a year back. Still, the Mozilla Developers know better than their users. And they definitely know better than operations specialists, IT management and professional developers. After all, what do we know? ;)

        An admittedly unscientific poll of my users some while back seemed to indicate that the prevalence of home Firefox users is going down like the Titanic.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @Peter

      For me its already too late; I bailed out a long time ago. Not towards Chrome but SeaMonkey. Still a Mozilla engine (which isn't bad at all IMO) but without the upgrade madness. However, I have been using MSIE9 more frequent as of late.

      But onto ESR... I think its doomed to fail, and I'm not just saying because I'm not a believer. First of all; the ESR project is rather new. From what I can make of it (check the proposal on the Mozilla wiki) the base version is FF10 which was only released approx. 5 months ago. You can also clearly see the reasons behind it:

      "The shift to a new release process has been difficult for organizations that deploy Firefox to their users in a managed environment. We've heard 2 primary concerns"

      That new release process otoh has happened MUCH longer ago. Around FF5. So it took them 5 releases (which, I guess didn't take that long ;-) ) to finally realize that companies and more serious users actually got fed up with the speedy release dates and that this couldn't be maintained.

      Something every regular user (myself included) could have told you up front. Heck, worse: most of us DID on fora such as El Reg. Guess this is the kind of attention we got: /none/.

      Concluding from that I think its safe to say that this whole ESR contraption is nothing more than damage control. Too little too late? That I can't say, but I have very little faith in it. Why?

      You see; it seems that the main thrive was to present a version ASAP which would be "Firefox" but without the "upgrade madness". Now I wonder: how much preparation went into this project ?

      Because there is something Ubuntu LTS (Long Term Support) has clearly shown us... Maintaining such a project is relatively easy. Not saying its a piece of cake, DON'T get me wrong. But its doable.

      But actually maintaining it in such ways where the user can easily upgrade (move) from one LTS version to the next has so far proven to be more than difficult. In fact, in my experience that upgrade has often been plain out impossible. You were better off with backing up your data, wiping your disk clean and re-install.

      Sure; Firefox is a browser and not a whole OS, I see that. But I cannot help, considering the context I've pictured above, if it won't eventually fall right into the same trap as Ubuntu LTS has. What guarantees are there that upgrading ESR won't actually give even MORE headaches and issues than a regular browser ? Especially considering that the project is sort off brand new ?

      Another aspect which would make me very weary on this... Didn't Mozilla state some months ago that they didn't really care for the Enterprise and wouldn't be targeting it ? In fact, I recall them saying this around FF5 when they started their new upgrade policy. Could it be that when they finally realized that it was actually seriously hurting their market share that they changed their course?

      How could you not be skeptical about a long-termed project when the company behind it has already shown to produce very poor results when working out long term strategies ?

      I know I'm a critic, but I don't see this working out.

    5. Kobus Botes
      Happy

      Re: Question for Firefox users

      Interesting: I downloaded Mageia 2 when it was released and upgraded last week-end.

      It seems that Mageia 2 comes with ESR as standard (I never checked previously, so M1 could also have had it as standard).

      As far as Mageia 2 is concerned - extremely happy.

  3. FanMan
    Facepalm

    And still the beach ball whirls...

    I keep hoping all these new releases will come up with a way to just work without all these eternal seizures and failures to respond and spinning beach balls and what not. I already upgraded to 13 (Mac) and it's no improvement.

    1. asdf Silver badge

      Re: And still the beach ball whirls...

      Using Chrome will fix that problem for ya. Even Opera is an improvement over FF on Mac.

  4. Tom Chiverton 1
    Stop

    Sigh.

    The final builds are there so mirrors can pick them up ready for release day.

    It's frown'd upon to point out the live URLs for the obvious reason that it dumps all the traffic on Mozilla.

  5. aidanstevens
    Facepalm

    Smooth scrolling...

    I really do not understand why such a pointless feature feature is included, let alone enabled by default. Can anyone enlighten me as to how my life will improve by using it?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Killraven

      Re: Smooth scrolling...

      I'm rather confused by this myself. Why wouldn't a user want their browser to scroll by whatever default they already have their OS set to?

      Personally, I can't stand smooth scrolling and am eternally searching for mice that don't have a smooth-scroll wheel.

      1. stanimir

        Re: Smooth scrolling...

        i scroll w/ spacebar (down) and shift+spacebar (up).

      2. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: Smooth scrolling...

        I've hated smooth scrolling ever since DEC VT terminals had it.

        I don't see any reason to change my mind now :-)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well isn't that nice

    The worst thing isn't actually all those snooty sites telling you to upgrade and "helpfully" pointing out a link to a download for the wrong platform (certain plugin using sites are guilty of this too), but the simple fact that the only way* to get the required security patches is "upgrades" in the "user experience". As in, that daily tool now requires another round of getting used to, as all the brain-, clicky- and fingermacros are now useless again.

    This calls for a split between between the user interface and all the unspeakable crap that lies behind it, the cause for that incessant need to patch, update, and upgrade. Or you could try one of them alternatives, but some if not all pull the exact same crap.

    * Barring ESM, as pointed out above, but the difficulty finding it and the big letters "not for individuals" hardly change the point.

  7. tempemeaty
    Joke

    Nice...

    ...but I think I'll wait another month or so for Firefox 285.0.1

  8. carter brandon

    If they ever release a version that doesn't break half my addons, I'll update, until then, versions 3.6 portable and 7.0.1 portable remain on my laptop and desktop.

    1. Greg J Preece

      Jetpack and other modifications to the system long since fixed that particular issue. Can't remember the last time I had a plugin issue at upgrade time.

  9. boltar Silver badge
    FAIL

    I'm staying on 3.6 on linux

    It works. End of. I'm not playing their silly version number game whereby no one knows whether its a major or a minor release so until the day I can no longer use the websites I visit then I'm sticking with it. I don't update to a new major version of telnet or ssh every month so I'm not updating my browser. F*ck them.

    Tried chrome - needed 2 libraries I didn't have (it must've required about 30 which is a bad sign of bloat and going way beyond whats required IMO) and I'm not downloading yet more cr@p onto my laptop just for a browser when I've already got one.

  10. Jeebus

    I do so enjoy people complaining about Firefox then demanding "upgrades" to Chrome. How unbelievably pathetic, they're both dire. Says more about the kool-aid drinking worthlessness of the IT crowd than anything else.

  11. Vin King

    What's firefox?

    Oh wait, I think I remember. It's that thing that measures minutes to load pages by version number.

  12. Alan W. Rateliff, II
    Paris Hilton

    Still no 64-bit client?

    I've been using the 64-bit nightly builds for a while... since 11.0a1, I think. The unofficial builds stopped around 3.6 or 7. Anyway, the 64-bit version is quite nice, and I get to see some of the functionality ahead of schedule with the nightly builds. It technically doesn't work (isn't supported) for XP x64, but extracting the original installer and running it from there works perfectly, and the updates work the same.

    Add-on compatibility is a concern, but I'm still running a LOT of add-ons from my 3.6 days. I got tired of modifying them to work with every release so I just turn compatibility checking off. So far only one out of twenty-some add-ons fails to work.

    I'll have to see if the next update takes me from 15.0a1 to 16.0a1, which is usually the way it goes when a major release is done. Anyway, just babbling.

    Paris, babbling, too.

    1. Sim

      Re: Still no 64-bit client?

      there is a 64 bit client and I am using it now.

      http://palemoon.org/

      works for me.

      1. FrankAlphaXII

        Re: Still no 64-bit client?

        I was just about to say, I do a majority of my testing on a 64 bit client on both Windows and Linux.

    2. spatulasnout

      Re: Still no 64-bit client?

      Also: waterfoxproject.org

      Uses the same profile data as the 32-bit version, so no conversion tool is needed.

  13. heyrick Silver badge

    Still using 3.5 (or was it 3.6?)

    Dunno how the hell we got to v13 so quickly, not to mention the plethora of tweaks to the UI that suggest updating means learning new things...sorry, I'll stick with what I know works instead of the "Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online threats" warning, because I'm damned sure I'm running the likes of NoScript *because* the browser was never really "protected" in the first place.

  14. Shannon Jacobs
    Holmes

    What's new? Or did I get bored out too quickly?

    Everything the author described as supposedly new has been in the Firefox I've been using for quite a while. I'm vaguely confused about the apparent cluelessness, but mostly I think it doesn't matter. Actually, the main point of the article to me is the increasing evidence of the desperation at Firefox as they realize that their economic model is failing.

    Here's a clue: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    Here's a suggestion: "Don't change it until someone actually wants to pay for the changes."

    Random change for the sake of nothing is NOT helping. So in closing, here's a suggestion for an alternative funding model (of reverse auction charity shares):

    http://eco-epistemology.blogspot.jp/2009/11/economics-of-small-donors-reverse.html

    It's kind of like Kickstarter, but with more focus on project management and software testing (though that particular description was actually tilted more towards Web publishing).

    As regards Firefox, I'm still using it as my primary browser, but with less and less enthusiasm and mostly because of inertia and the lack of non-evil options. Microsoft (IE) and Apple (Safari) are already established leaders against freedom, and Google (Chrome) is becoming an increasingly strong challenger for the evil crown. Facebook (dying Opera?) will NOT be a solution, at least not in this universe...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    what

    I just got off their web site and they say firefox 12 is the latest addition. I went to their firefox 13 ftp site and they said that it is not yet available. What gives?

    1. FrankAlphaXII

      Re: what

      It is on the Beta channel until the official RTM sometime today, for now you'd have to download the beta and then switch channels to the release channel. Nothing new is in the code as of Build ID: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0 ID:20120531155942, which is Firefox 13 Beta's last release.

      Check again around 1500 PDT. They usually have them up by then.

  16. DF118

    Two reasons I still use FF

    1) NoScript

    2) I'm lazy

    1. DF118

      Re: Two reasons I still use FF

      Oh, I thought of a third reason: it's actually rather good.

  17. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    Unhappy

    HTML Validator

    I've stuck with FF because of HTML Validator. I've tried looking for a similar tool for Chrome, but failed. All other validators just helpfully send your URL to the W3 on-line validator. Not much good when you're testing new pages/apps on localhost, or your pages are behind a login screen.

    HTML Validator appears to be the only tool that has the validation engine built in.

    1. Def Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: HTML Validator

      Opera posts the whole page to the W3 validator.

  18. Evil Twin
    Pint

    Thanks for that (ESR)

    Six week release cycle is pretty ridiculous

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  19. Greg J Preece

    It never ceases to amuse me with every FF release, watching the proud 3.6 luddites write off a browser they haven't used in ten versions for reasons that have been long since fixed.

    Add-ons break in every version, do they? Well, no. No, they don't. Jetpack and other changes fixed that back in what, FF6? But you wouldn't know, because you're on 3.6.

    The browser's slow, is it? Well, no, not really. Firefox these days is a lot snappier for me, and compared to Chrome, I really can't bring myself to chuck out a load of functionality for the 0.01 second per page I'd gain in speed. But then, you wouldn't know if it was quicker, because you're on 3.6.

    Oh, they forced a new UI on you in 4, did they? You know you can right click twice and put it back, right? I did that 30 seconds after installing 4, and I haven't seen the minimal UI since. Oh, the horror. Come on, it's not exactly the Office Ribbon.

    Try the new one out, seriously, if for no other reason than the various Gecko upgrades. (Gecko being one of the main reasons I use FF so much. Excellent engine, and far less buggy than Webkit in my experience.) It's a lot better than you think.

    1. FrankAlphaXII

      If I could upvote this a million times I would. Its amazing to me that the people still sitting on a program 10 versions old hold opinions which are considered relevant. I know of no other program where this would be considered anything but laughable. Imagine a Fedora Core 6 user expressing opinions about Fedora 17 and having them be seriously considered relevant.

      1. stanimir

        you mistake core/kernel updates w/ mostly fluff and patches. normally major updates can bring inconsistency, backward incompatibility, deprecated/unsupported APIs, etc.

        The version numbering of FF is just lame, that's all. I practically I see no real difference between 3.6 and the latest FF, when you disable the ads and useless javascripts (use them both, so yeah)

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Unhappy

          I agree with you that the version numbering scheme is a bit daft

          There were pretty good reasons for the MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH.BUILD version numbering systems used by almost everyone (with various company variations on the BUILD bit).

          Going away from that causes confusion and digs holes for both users and developers to fall into.

          For example, if the devs crank up the PATCH when they make a fairly big change, users become nervous about any upgrade because "the last minor patch changed everything!"

          Pretty soon it ends up in a situation like 1.20.50.xx because now there is nothing big enough to justify crank the MAJOR. That then confuses people and support even further - when somebody says "1.2.5", do they mean 1.2.5, 1.25.xx or 1.20.50?

          Alternatively if you crank the MAJOR every single time, nobody has a clue whether a change is actually significant.

          That means some users don't want to upgrade because they think something big must have changed every time and they don't want to learn it. (yet)

          Once they realise most are not big changes, they get scared because they cannot easily tell whether anything "big" is there and thus put off every upgrade until they have a week of nothing much going on to test the new version.

          So they end up behind, because this major version was really just a patch while that one was major, and the other was minor, and they all happened way before the user got the time (or courage) to try any of them.

          For most of the above, for "user" read "Corporate IT Dept".

          Most home users will just leave the auto-update at defaults, and then get very surprised if anything changes - my mum always phones me when her "internet" changes, and I doubt she's alone.

          1. Dead Lines
            Pint

            Re: I agree with you that the version numbering scheme is a bit daft

            Yes, but...

            In between your "Corporate IT Dept" and your surprised mum, the other 99% of users simply want a browser that will render all web pages, is reasonably secure and stable. And for those slightly more capable, a browser that allows additional/custom behaviour through easy to use addons.

            Just saying.

            1. Richard 12 Silver badge
              FAIL

              Re: I agree with you that the version numbering scheme is a bit daft

              ***Whoosh***

              That's the sound of you missing the point by a few AU.

      2. Ian Johnston
        Thumb Down

        Ubuntu 10.04LTS is on FF12

        and it's still a slow, bloated, pain in the neck. It seems to suffer from a common free software flaw: the developers are more worried about a road map for wizzy new features over the next n years than actually getting the old stuff working.

        Chrome/Chromium are superior in every way.

      3. Turtle

        Re: FrankAlphaXII

        "Its amazing to me that the people still sitting on a program 10 versions old hold opinions which are considered relevant. "

        Now here is an example of someone who has been completely fooled by Mozilla's moronic "new version number every six weeks" marketing ploy!

        Well apparently some people *enjoy* being, uh, "socially engineered".

    2. illiad

      and *how many* addons do you use??

      sure, its lovely to update regularly... problem is, the basics are not for those who do a lot of research, needing records of pages, easy checks of sources, and full recovery of many pages if something crashes!! ( I dont mean FF, but the PC!! )

      tabmixplus does all that...

      allinone sidebar takes the rather 'toybox like' list of addons, etc into something much more compact and manageable..

      various status bars help me get info on how things are going, without having to open anything *just* to find out a downloads progress...

      downloaders get me good music without having to load them every time - saves bandwidth, resources, time and money..

      extra buttons, extra themes, etc adds a bit of color to the awfully restricted basic ones..

      I have tried many of the new FFs, but it is the addon makers who have the problem!!! HOW are they supposed to keep up, when many things are changed, meaning that almost ALL of the above stop working???

      Unless somebody at Mozilla pays attention to this, eg, just looking at the top downloads from its addons website, and talking to the addon developer, to help getting it working!!

      most of us have given up, to support the old FF, that still works with needed addons - these are usually supplied by ONE guy, who does not have time or money to keep up with the latest 'musical chairs' at mozilla!!

      And I bet you wont even bother to try out a few of these addons, just to let us know if it is safe to get the latest FF???

      It is not easy making a full backup of your settings, down to individual button positions.. and due to where it puts all its files, it is simpler to just erase everything, and install again from scratch!!

      Most of us are just simple guys, with a busy life, not able to spend hours just tweaking, unlike SOME people here....

      1. Greg J Preece

        Re: and *how many* addons do you use??

        I use a ton of extensions, given that I'm a professional developer. (In fact, I have actually developed Firefox add-ons!) But with the later mods to Firefox it isn't necessary for developers to update their extensions to have explicit compatibility with new versions, which makes things much, much easier.

        The change in version numbering doesn't alter how rapidly changes in the browser code occur. There's now a smaller number of changes in each major revision, so as a developer I can make a minor change every so often, rather than having a set of major changes all dumped on me at once, which is part of what caused the old problems of "x plugin isn't ready yet".

        "And I bet you wont even bother to try out a few of these addons, just to let us know if it is safe to get the latest FF???"

        Aside from the fact that I've no idea what these add-ons are, how the heck is that my responsibility? Have you tried disabling version checking and seeing if they'd work anyway? Most still will, and it's just the max version number stored in the add-on that stops them from activating.

        "It is not easy making a full backup of your settings, down to individual button positions"

        Uhhhhh, yes it is. Just make a copy of your Firefox profile folder. Is that difficult?

        "Most of us are just simple guys, with a busy life, not able to spend hours just tweaking, unlike SOME people here...."

        Well pardon me, I apologise for having a hobby. You know, going on to a tech website and making sarcastic swipes at all those silly sad bastards who are actually interested in this stuff isn't going to encourage them to help you. Back in't day (ooh aye, old lad) on IRC or Usenet, you'd have lasted about ten seconds with that attitude.

    3. Ian Johnston
      FAIL

      If addons haven't broken in every version since FF6...

      ... why has FF12 (Ubuntu) just told me it's checking them for compatibility?

      1. Greg J Preece

        Re: If addons haven't broken in every version since FF6...

        Did it reject any?

        "Chrome/Chromium are superior in every way."

        Except that they're not. The address bar doesn't work as well, the rendering engine has more bugs, the developer tools are all swiped from superior Firefox extensions, etc, etc. You can call Chrome faster and I'll agree, but that's not why I use FF as my primary browser. Chrome is fast, and Opera is polished, but Firefox works.

  20. Dead Lines

    No Problems

    I've been on the beta update channel for about a year now, so I've been using version 13 for a while now.

    Haven't had any problems. Don't know what addons you guys are using but I've found that I don't have the addon update problems I used to have. Updates have been pretty seamless.

    Why the fuss over a version number? It is just a number!

    So basically it works for me, all my addons work (I stick to established addons), and I agree with Shannon Jacobs. It is the most non-evil option.

    1. illiad

      how about listing your addons, please...

      would sure help instead of the vague 'my addons work'... :/

      - are you the guy that brings your radio into the shop, and just says "dunno, it just dont work..."

      1. Dead Lines
        Happy

        Re: how about listing your addons, please...

        Adblock, NoScript, FlashGot, FireGestures, Flagfox, Globefish, WOT, etc. etc.

        Not going to list every single one as it's is not relevant. Everyone will have their own list.

        The important thing is to use tried and tested addons.

        Anyway, my "radio" works :)

  21. Def Silver badge
    Joke

    1995 called...

    They want their UI back.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    Two browsers for me...

    Chrome for surfing the web - and a small amount of dev work

    Firefox for web dev - the dev tools in firefox are still generally better than Chrome and I really can't do without my shortcut keys with the Web Developer toolbar - a plugin I use a LOT at work.

    The version numbers malarkey really is a pointless exercise, but finally, it seems, mozilla have stopped marketing the version numbers on the download page.

    I have to say, it's also helped me convince the account managers at work that we *don't* have to test websites in every single version of a web browser, but rather concentrate on web standards and trust the browsers to render correctly. These days, unless you don't know your craft, all major browsers do render correctly.

    I've been following Firefox, like many devs, since before it was firefox - firebird 0.6 - I tried phoenix prior to this, but wasn't impressed.

    I used to proudly wear my Mozilla t-shit - that amazing design with the gecko and the star - as Mozilla had bought life back into the browser market - the early noughties were a very dull time for browsers, as netscape killed itself and internet explorer re-invented itself as a half decent browser.

    I stopped using Firefox as a day to day browser and moved the chrome - the sandboxing of the tabs really appealed to me. With firefox, a crash would generally take the entire browser down, but with chrome, you'd usually only lose a tab. That, alone, was worth the switch.

    I still think firefox has far better Add-Ons and to be honest, I'd trust mozilla far sooner than Google, perhaps it's time to have another look at firefox for everyday use?

  23. Infernoz Bronze badge
    Unhappy

    The current versioning fad/trend for web browsers etc. appears to be support poison.

    Incrementing the version number for obvious minor revision releases, rather than the revision number, looks like an abuse of version numbering convention. The revision number will become pointless and redundant at this rate!

    The complaints about the current version numbering trend on extensions/plugins are quite valid; it breaks the whole point of having a maximum version bound on extensions/plugins and makes life annoying for users of otherwise working but no longer updated extensions/plugins.

    I have given up on maximum version bounding for valuable working, unsupported, extensions and plugins, so periodically update the upper bound to a much higher maximum version.

    I wonder if this version numbering fad maybe designed as some form of sabotage, either now or in the future; why not just use build numbers, for yet more chaos!?

  24. Antidisestablishmentarianist

    So will this one stop crashing?

    I've been hoping they'd fix that rather annoying habit, well, forever.

    The one where it crashes, then refuses to start, then you come back later and it's working again is bizarre, and somehow I'm sadly used to it.

  25. billium
    Mushroom

    13 doesn't support Windows 2000

    1. Greg J Preece

      Neither does the latest IE, Chrome (without hackery), or Safari (again, without hackery). However, Opera does, surprisingly, so kudos to them.

      But TBH, if you stay on a 13 year old system, how long are you expecting support to last?

  26. This post has been deleted by its author

  27. toadwarrior

    Some people just want to be angry

    All these angry people who insist they're going to stick with FF 3.5 are not better than old people that are too afraid to change anything on their computer and insist on sticking with IE6.

    The version number shouldn't matter and it basically doesn't now. The internet is better when people keep their browsers up to date meaning they're secure and support the latest standards.

    If you don't like that fine but you're in a minority which is going extinct.

    Firefox runs better than it ever has before. So I'm happy the pressure was put on them by Chrome and they've reacted perfectly. I'd argue that actually Firefox is better than Chrome now.

    It certainly handles broken HTML better than Chrome which chokes on busted html.

    1. Dummy00001
      Meh

      Re: Some people just want to be angry

      Oh, another clueless comment about us "luddites," being senile old fools afraid of upgrade.

      Question about now-useless version numbers is the wrong one.

      The real question is about development model. Change of the versioning model is the tip of the iceberg: FireFox as of version 4 is effectively a developer build channel. It's an alpha-quality software and not once FireFox (and Chrome too) had to suspend the auto-updates to fix problems. But some user did already got updated to the broken version. Do you want to be among them? I doubt it. In the end, all users are playing the Russian roulette: will it work for you tomorrow or not?

      I rely on my browser as on a working tool, which I have customized for my tasks. Honestly I have little desire (and often no time) to play the roulette every 6 weeks. (I actually already have the experience with Chrome breakages. They magically disappeared few days later, still, had I relied on Chrome as a tool, my work would have been impaired.)

      I did test FireFox 10 and it worked pretty well. I could find replacement for all important extensions and no obvious breakage popped up. But that was version 10. Who knows how it is now at version 12 or 13 or whatever.

      And that's the whole point. With development model around major.minor versions I can plan updates and upgrades because I can tell major feature update from minor patch. With the current FireFox's development model I cannot. And I cannot allow some unsigned 3rd party to control how and when I do my work. For that I already have a whole matrix of management...

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Firefox: Another Day Another Number

    And a few cosmetic changes.

    Maybe there'll be a real upgrade one day. I don't mind: browser works fine as it is, and, oh, I seem to be on 7-point-something.

  29. Dick Emery
    Megaphone

    Waterfox for 64bit

    I am now using Waterfox 64bit as it just installs and uses the old Mozilla settings folder. No messing about with anything other than installing Flash and Silverlight 64 plugins. Runs a treat.

  30. Daniel Johnson

    Marge, why won't it work properly?

    Just upgraded Firefox - was on version 10.something. Got the white screen of death on first attempt to run it.

    Most plug-ins have disappeared with the upgrade, except for a couple of PHP debuggers. Any that were temporarily disabled to try and get the browser to run correctly are gone.

    Bookmarks are all gone, along with Live Feeds and the Homer Simpson theme.

    Quick YouTube test: uses around 50% of CPU (including plug-in container), whereas Opera (for example) is about 20% for the same video.

  31. Mips
    Childcatcher

    WHAT ??

    Today I just upgraded to Firefox 12.

    Buggar it is out of date already.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hate the new tab crap

    If you hat ethe newtab crap showing everyone at work the pages you are visiting use this.

    browser.newtab.url = about:blank

    back to old behavior

  33. Reg Varney
    Mushroom

    Enough with all this useless crap and stop the damn thing crashing!

    For the last 3 versions, this has been disastrously unstable, crashing a minimum of twice a day, including when I'm not actually doing anything, just have it open in the background.

    Used to be great, but unreliable POS recently,

  34. illiad
    Facepalm

    @Greg J Preece...

    yup, tried all that, unpredictable results... do note that 'telling the browser it will work' is NOT the same as the addon not working with the browser properly!!!

    as for 'full profile' I think there needs to be something else.. mostly, the new install wont recognize the old profile, and simply creates a new one... or other strange effects..

    and as 'Daniel Johnson' and 'Reg Varney' say, V10 may have almost worked, but killed by the upgrade to 13...

    I would rather have a slow, **reliable** browser, than a fast crashing one!!!

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Official Mozilla MSI packages yet? No? Right, carry on.

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