back to article Unions urge under-fire HP workers to 'resist' job cuts

Unite and the Public Services Commercial (PCS) unions will form a tag team to "use every means possible" to safeguard the jobs of 1,600 HP UK employees under risk of redundancy. The tech monster revealed late last night that it is hitting the eject button for 27,000 workers worldwide – including Autonomy founder Mike Lynch – …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You often wonder what a union would do if it couldn't pay the bills. Go bust presumably and let the bankruptcy administrator break the bad news of job cuts.

  2. John A Blackley

    Translation

    "We will be working with the PCS union to use every means to protect these vital and high-skilled jobs."

    We'll persuade our members to come out on strike so we can get on the telly. They'll lose pay and still lose their jobs but, hey, we'll get on the telly.

  3. FunkyEric
    FAIL

    Back in realitysville

    Do the unions really think the management give a flying feck what they think or do?

  4. Bob Vistakin
    Devil

    Clearly, Unites most senior rep should act

    After all, that's what he's there for.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well Unite did bugger all, IMX, about the redundancies at a well known high street bank with a blue eagle logo thingy. So why should the HP workers think they'll do anything for them!

    Unite Member - meaning to cancel as I have no job now....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Also

      Don't forget about the well known high street bank with the "scottish" blue logo with the white daisywheel, where they also did fuck all. I and many others were seriously considering demanding our union dues back, because they failed so badly.

      Unite hate banks and bankers, which would be ok if it wasn't for the fact that they are supposed to represent them.

  6. kain preacher

    I'm pro union but in this case there is nothing that can be done. Sure HP might be profitable but this company has no vision other than to make share holders and the CEO money. Slashing R&D means a sloth death. Firing every one just speeds up the death process.If your CEO sees the only way to make the company profitable is by cutting jobs your screwed. How about customer service, good products, being able to understand the person at the other end of the line?s None of those are in HPs near future.

    1. a_been
      Boffin

      Well if the union members gave more of a fuck about customer service, good products and being able to understand the person at the other end of the line. Maybe HP would not be in the position off having to fire the fuckers. HP is not some strange alien god that doles out jobs as it sees fit. It's a group of people (employees and investors) working together for mutual benefit by supplying goods and service's that other people value.

      HP and it unions have been taking the piss out of people for years by supplying crappy printers with expensive ink, I won't even go into the shit they call a PC. They deserve to hit the wall as does everyone who works for them. 20 years ago if you saw HP you would pay extra because of the quality, now seeing HP is an easy way of avoiding shit.

      They deserve everything they get and if that means going out of business, well fuck them.

      1. kain preacher
        Happy

        So it was the unions that offed shored call centers. It was the unions that cut jobs, It was the union that told HP to reduce the quality . It was rthe unions that slashed R&D If you truly believe that your insane mate. A union can not force a company to have good customer service or have on shore call centers. How does a union force a company to make good products? Answer me that one. Are you saying that the union has say in the materials used in production ?

        "customer service, good products and being able to understand the person at the other end of the line. " Please explain how a union can control all of those things.

        1. Billl
          WTF?

          @kain preacher

          Though I disagree with the original posters premise that the employees killed the company, I can't help but feel that the Unions may have had a part in its undoing. The Unions force companies to overpay someone to do a job that obviously any third world person can do. Unions are anti-capitalist by nature. Capitalism requires that companies cannot band together and charge unreasonable prices. Unions are allowed to join forces and force companies to pay unreasonable prices for labor. You are not due a high wage simply because you show up to work. You should have to compete for what you get and if you're not worth it, then someone else will get it.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. kain preacher

            Re: @kain preacher

            If the company wants to use third world labor a union can't stop it. Companies do not have to agree to the wages that the union askes for. Lastly why do you say union workers are over paid ? How do you know that what the union is asking for is unreasonable.

      2. adam payne Silver badge

        @a_been

        HP do have some really poor printers / PCs but research can help you avoid the bad ones.

        I'll take HP over Dell any day.

      3. Lloyd
        Thumb Down

        Ever tried using Unite?

        You know, like as a "Union", my missus is a member, she started being pushed into a constructive dismissal case, the union failed to turn up to any preliminary meetings and when it all kicked off properly it took them 6 weeks to phone her back, by which point she'd hired a lawyer and settled out of court with her employers (in the end they split her job into 2 roles, which then ended up being 3, but apparently they maintained she wasn't overworked).

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Start looking at thise support contracts

    Then go tell HP management that they will be in breach of Contract if they cut 'n' from the team.

    You'll probalby lose your job anyway but on the way out send a fax to the customers Lawyers (from an HP number naturally) informing them that HP are in breach of contract.

    You may well lose your job but at least get a little satisfaction in return.

    anon, well I'm on the last ain't I. No sense in giving them PHB's any more ammo now is there?

  8. MurrayH

    Let's cut the real problem

    Hey, HP -- If you want to really save money, lay-off all those executives who have been making the bad decisions that led to the losses, instead of the employees who were following the instructions/strategy of the aforementioned. You may indeed have a few cullable folks in the lower ranks, but by and large, losses are created by management and executive level employees.

    Hey, HP Board -- Stop hiring executive with Golden Parachute clauses, and tie their earnings to the results. They get paid to take risks, but mitigate their mistakes by firing the people they have led as if it is the fault of those employees.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Redundancy...

    ...for me would be a blessed relief. I haven't got the nerve to just walk out but if they forced me out with a redundancy payment I can't say I would be too upset.

  10. Kapt Roger
    FAIL

    Let's watch for....

    Let's watch for the redundancy confirmation letters dated before the consultation period, and the redeployment manager who contacts people an hour or so before they leave to announce that they will now start looking for alternative work within HP.....

  11. Polyphonic
    Holmes

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

    Nothing new here, pass on. EDS culled EDS employees to make the company look good to the vampire squid, then HP started culling yet more employees to boost the share price, so this is nothing new. The unions were rubbish then and no different now. HP won't take any notice.

    The fact is HP no longer innovate so the only way they can make money is by sacking employees and looking through their rather bare IP cupboard for some "patent wars".

  12. Polyphonic
    Megaphone

    And what's more

    And what's more HP have just lost a couple of contracts with the MOD and others that used to pay the bills. HP were in deficit until they bought EDS with it's big services portfolio.

  13. Cynica

    Where the jobs come from - Really.

    Just remember, as a billionaire, Meg Whitman, CEO of HP is what the Republicans call a "Job Creator". Good job Meg.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    @All: Apply Here

    [Reposting this, as I think it is quite important for you folks who will be laid off]

    I am working for a German engineering services company called vacos. We are working mainly for Daimler AG, which is a hugely successful car and truck maker.

    So my boss is urgently looking for competent C++, Java and .Net developers. Just send your CV along with all the relevant school and job certificates to info@vacos.de.

    Also, many other companies are doing excellently (due to China, Russia and India buying German wares en masse). Just query for jobs in the official employment agency website:

    http://jobboerse.arbeitsagentur.de/vamJB/startseite.html?kgr=as&aa=1&m=1&vorschlagsfunktionaktiv=true

    Also, the "Euro crisis" is something that does not exist here in Germany. It's a problem of Greece, Spain, Portugal. High-quality, high-performance products still sell very well all over the world.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: @All: Apply Here

      "...Also, the "Euro crisis" is something that does not exist here in Germany. It's a problem of Greece, Spain, Portugal. High-quality, high-performance products still sell very well all over the world..."

      Really? Where do you think the money is coming from to bankroll Greece? What do you think will happen if Greece stop their austerity commitments? Germany, the rest of the Eurozone and the rest of Europe will be screwed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        Re: @All: Apply Here

        Ms Merkel is not exactly a fscking idiot. Yeah, they all want our money but the realistic course is that all the financially irresponsible parties will get their own currencies back.

        It will be a smaller, healthier Euro currency (€) domain.

        Anyways - German business is doing very, very well and it has not much to do with "€", but the underlying fact that hard work, discipline, reforms and austerity are finally paying off. I would opt going back to "DM", tomorrow, if I were asked.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mike Lynch

    I hope Mike Lynch can make it on the couple of billion he has tucked away. Nevertheless, HP must have considered him unfit for the executive team because he actually knows something about technology.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mike Lynch

      "Mike is always all blah, blah, blah... math, technology, we need to make good products, and other boring stuff. What we need are people who can communicate with 'the market'" - Approximation of something Meg Whitman might well have said.

  16. daveeff
    Black Helicopters

    A blow to UK IT?

    Sad as I am for individuals facing job loss this could be good for UK IT. Get some more start-ups going with that redundancy money.

    The worse thing to happen to UK IT lately was a bunch of US tossers buying Autonomy - HP are shit at IT.

  17. Miss Lincolnshire
    FAIL

    Clueless

    HP failure is nothing to do with the unions hamstringing management. HP have spent and lost about $50bn on EDS, Autonomy, Palm, Vertica etc in the last 5 years. They have invested nothing to build the services, instead they have ripped out cost without thought about what that cost represents (revenue earning staff) and imposed process to stifle.

    $10b spent on Autonomy and they let the entire management team that represents the value of that investment walk away! Outrageous. Palm is quite literally written off in the Touchpad debacle. EDS has had zero investment, they bought it to take the profits but have zero idea of how to use it or build it effectively. Vertica is another one that was bought and the boss left. All were bought as CEO vanity pieces as CEOs, particularly Mark Turd fought to be bigger than IBM. Pointless.

    HP is a hardware company but it's products are nothing special. Where is the R&D, where is the innovation? There is none. The two biggest markets right now are Tablets & Smartphones. HP offer neither. Laptops etc are commodity kit, people buy the cheapest not the badge.

    Bin the hardware division like IBM did, it's a low margin distraction. Maybe keep servers, but build the Autonomy/EDS Services piece. Set some direction. FFS

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