Trish should encourage a move to Free/Open software if she is so concerned then.
Reseller NCI Technologies has urged Microsoft to shelve the planned pricing overhaul that could see UK customers paying between 20 to 35 per cent more for volume licences. Redmond will align volume licence pricing in the EU - except for academic programmes - to the euro currency from 1 July in a bid to drive some consistency …
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Yeah, right...
but it's a one-off expense. Nobody said you should migrate all your systems, just start with some of them until you get comfortable. You could also fire some of those who advised you to stay 100% Microsoft last time when licenses were renewed. As usual, if there is a will there is a way.
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Tom Chiverton 1 - I'm afraid it may be impossible
Reselling FOSS does not bring any money. On to the other hand, UK customers could try to fake an increased interest in FOSS. It has worked so nicely in the past so it might work again.
Anyway, as an advice to UK businesses: just before bankruptcy you may give FOSS a try. Heck, you have nothing left to lose!
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:58 GMT Destroy All Monsters
Thursday 16th February 2012 21:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @Tom Chiverton 1 - I'm afraid it may be impossible
RedHat $1BN per year is money missing from Microsoft's and Oracle's coffers. FOSS TCO has be shown to be slightly less than proprietary. http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/FOSS-the-Recession-and-the-Lower-TCO-Promise-67157.html?wlc=1243605820 tells of more growing Opensource companies.
Thursday 16th February 2012 19:20 GMT LarsG
Thursday 16th February 2012 23:01 GMT toadwarrior
Saturday 18th February 2012 01:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
You mean of course 'proper English' then why, pray, does.it keep reverting to American.
I still go and see films, wear trousers, my wife wears the suspenders and will never use that strange word aloooooominum.
I can also use a knife and fork correctly, do not drawl and we grow potatoes to fit out mouths over here. Fortunately Microsoft's has no control over this.
Friday 17th February 2012 04:07 GMT Qu Dawei
Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
I discovered recently that its worse than that: I had to buy a replacement Windows machine recently because my old one broke irretrievably. I had bought it in the UK, and all was fine with it. Since I am now in China, I had to quickly buy a Chinese PC. The only safe ones I could buy only had Windows 7 Basic on them, and I found that to change the language to English (any kind, I'm not fussy becauise it is a priority), I had to pay mega-bucks to first upgrade to the Windows Ultimate editon. Just another excuse to make money.
The interface is subtly different; in the Chines version, the position of some options are not the same compared with the English version (so I can't use memory to recall what meu item to choose). Also, the shortcut keys are not the same. They seem to have made it as difficult as possible to simply change languages so that they can squeeze more money out of you. Before, I was displeased with Microsoft; now I hate them. Furthermore, if I install software (freeware, shareware or licensed), it often uses as an interface language the settings it finds on the computer, so everything is set up using Chinese as well. The option to change to English is sometimes not there at all, and if it is, one needs to understand Chinese to be able to find out how easily. I used to be reasonably proficient using Windows, but because I cannot read many Chinese characters, I've sudenly become a functional 8 year old or worse when using it in Chinese.
On Linux, such language changes are done easily. The problem for me is that I must use Windows because of reasons completely outside my control. If I could, I'd ditch it tomorrow.
Friday 17th February 2012 09:48 GMT Allan George Dyer
Re: Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
I agree with your language frustrations. On the installation problems, it might help you to know that some developers choose the installation language based on the default character set in the Regional Settings, change to Traditional Chinese, and the installer starts in Chinese, change to Western Europe/US and the installer starts in English. There is also a command-line option for msi to force the language, something like:
msiexec /i A:\Example.msi ProductLanguage=1033
for US English, but YMMV.
Friday 17th February 2012 13:37 GMT Wensleydale Cheese
Re: Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
I feel your pain and have a similar experience with German versions of Windows software. A lot of software gets this right and offers a language selection either for the installation or afterwards through the settings menu, but some doesn't and you are stuck with it. I'm pretty fluent in German, but when I'm supporting an English speaker I want to see the same screens and menu options that they do.
Apple gets this one right .- my OS X systems are set up for English yet I can still set my time zone and date, time and currency formats to my local variations without having random apps dive into German. On OS X I can select a different language either by user or at run time if I want to, and this is very handy when I have guests or for support.
Another thing that Microsoft gets wrong here is that even if you buy a multilingual version of their software, the license will tell you that you are only allowed to use the language used on the first installation. Bang go your rights to select one of the other languages in that pack if you decide to pass your computer on to someone who speaks another language.
P.S. I also hate websites that decide which language I want for downloaded software based on my IP address, but that's a story for another day...
Friday 17th February 2012 14:21 GMT Mitch Kent
Re: Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
I don't think you can have several languages at once, but you can reinstall from a disk and choose english. That's what I did when I bought my laptop in Germany. Takes a while to get used to the character keys being in different places but you'll be an expert touch typist in no time!
Friday 17th February 2012 21:08 GMT Wensleydale Cheese
I managed to skip Vista, but under 7 Ultimate once you have got Windows Update working, you are presented with 35 or so optional updates which cover all the languages you will probably need.
Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, you need to log out and in again after selecting another language.
I'm well used to switching keyboard languages. Swiss German keyboards really slow you down for programming though, so I bought a US keyboard for my main Apple system.
But I use a Swiss German keyboard for writing correspondence in German because it has the accented characters.
Friday 17th February 2012 09:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: DEAR MICROSOFT...
Oh for goodness sake, do you really want a lecture on how local economies work? How about:
a) Because you really don't want prices changing every single day
b) Because you want some stability in your pricing so you can forecast what your sales revenue will be without have to second guess currency fluctuations
c) Because your staff you employ (directly or indirectly) in each country to support those sales won't want their salaries fluctuating on daily basis according to exchange rates
d) Because those staff have different cost-of-living expenses in different countries
e) Because taxes are not the same in each country (import, sales, employment, corporation, etc.)
f) Because costs of sales (excluding taxes mentioned above) are different in each country (think translation costs, advertising costs, etc.)
I could go on...
Friday 17th February 2012 12:35 GMT big_D
That is what MS are trying to do... The problem is, the Pound has bombed and is worth a lot less than it was, the pound is worth around 45% less than when I left the UK, so a price hike for harmonisation isn't "excessive".
I'd like it, if they sank the Euro prices to reflect the UK prices, but that isn't going to happen.
Still, at least they aren't as bad as Adobe...
Thursday 16th February 2012 19:45 GMT Nuke
RTFA again, it is >>Andy<< Trish. Yes, I had to look back when he was referred to later as "Trish", which is usually a nickname for "Patricia".
Unless of course you are RMS, who has a peculiar manner of refering to everyone in general as "she", despite looking extremely unshe-like himself.
Thursday 16th February 2012 15:48 GMT moiety
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Friday 17th February 2012 05:01 GMT Goat Jam
Where I work we have 4 server admins who are responsible for about 20 servers and 1 unix guy looking after about 60.
Recently they were working out the "Licensing" budget. It took one of those windows guys about two months to figure out that we needed to pay MS about a million dollars for this year.
I cannot understand why companies continue to do business like that.
Friday 17th February 2012 06:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Re: Especially...
'..Where I work we have 4 server admins who are responsible for about 20 servers and 1 unix guy looking after about 60..'
And I *used* to be like your Unix guy, oh, on top of that, hello bloody mission creep...also ended up doing the damn'd Windows stuff as well (server *and* desktop) as I was more 'available' than the Windows 'team'.
One day though, life's too fscking short.
Now laugh at all these stories (and the ones about the shortage of Linux bods..my mortgage is paid off, I'm not going back)
Friday 17th February 2012 11:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Re: Re: Especially...
Yes, funnily enough I too was that Unix guy, until I got jack of it and asked to be moved.
I can't recall how many times I overheard the Windows guys discussing the latest problem de jour and having to bite my lip and refrain from telling them that the problem could be solved trivially by using a *nix box and a cron job (or whatever). Truth is they get sick of hearing about non windows solutions because they all have MS certificates that they have heavily invested in so they are therefore not prepared to listen to anything that does not reinforce their existing training investments.
Everything seems so much more complicated on Windows (as long as you don't suffer from command line phobia of course) and problems invariably need to be solved by purchasing yet another commercial software product which usually doesn't work as advertised and sometimes makes things worse.
As you say, life's too short.
Thursday 16th February 2012 15:50 GMT TeeCee
I'm not surprised the resellers are hacked off.
They must be doing a roaring trade in exports to the rest of the EU at the moment.
You have to remember that when some spokesdroid stands on his hind legs and moans about how bad XYZ is for everyone, you need to remember that what they actually mean is that it's bad for them.
Friday 17th February 2012 15:08 GMT xyz
Re: I'm not surprised the resellers are hacked off.
>>>You have to remember that when some spokesdroid stands on his hind legs and moans about how bad XYZ is for everyone,
Did I used to go out with you or something? I know most people don't like me, but the above is a bit off. Enough of the name calling already
Thursday 16th February 2012 16:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 16th February 2012 17:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 16th February 2012 20:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Friday 17th February 2012 11:48 GMT Piloti
Re: Re: Re: Charming...
Actually, I am sorry to say, you arewrong.
This is from the OED [Oxford English Dictionary] :
aluminium (United States aluminum )
n noun a strong, light, corrosion-resistant silvery-grey metal, the chemical element of atomic number 13. (Symbol: Al)
aluminize or aluminise verb
C19: from alumina + -ium.
Thursday 16th February 2012 20:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Re: Charming...
Nice try, but it wasn't a fashion, it's due to English evolving along with a French speaking Norman invasion. Many many French words were absorbed into the language. Pretty much anything that ends in "tion" is French.
I think if you want to define true English, a country called England might have more than a head start as the home for it ;-)
Friday 17th February 2012 13:11 GMT expat jan
Re: Re: Re: Re: Charming...
"he result of Old French impacting on Old English"
Well, it seems that the sloppy ex-colony across the Pond has yet again made an impact upon elegant and perfectly adequate grammatical construction and style. Or are you AC because you dare not admit publicly to such wanton destruction of Real English?
Thursday 16th February 2012 17:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
"...secondly it will "promote piracy""
Probably will, a bit, but I doubt that that will be the most significant impact. I would have thought that any company willing to pirate volume licenses would already be doing it and not worry about this change.
I think the real impact will be as suggested by others above - a significant shove in the direction of non-microsoft products, mainly Free/Open. MS licensing is a nightmare to understand as it is, and this insult (ie "fuck you customer, we don't really care about you") piled on top will be, for many, the last straw (at least I hope so).
Friday 17th February 2012 13:38 GMT mhenriday
«I think the real impact will be as suggested by others above -
a significant shove in the direction of non-microsoft products, mainly Free/Open. ...» In a perfectly rational world, JustaKOS, that would certainly be the case, but given the fact that the main qualification held by so many technical personnel is a Microsoft Certificate, there will inevitably be a great deal of internal resistance to such a change. FOSS won't have a sporting chance until IT workers receive a broader education/training in computer science - which, of course, is one of the reasons that Microsoft exerts such efforts to monopolise such education and training....
Friday 17th February 2012 14:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
@mhenriday - MS Certification
Depressing though your words are, I have to agree that FOSS won't have a real chance until the obsession with certification in products ends. It might also give us old farts a sporting chance as well : skill and experience count for naught these days as most job reqs include a list of certifications. Often the certs are there to provide a filter which selects for those who've sat exams, rather than those who have actual experience and ability.
Thursday 16th February 2012 17:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 16th February 2012 18:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
You don't make sense. As I understand you, you seem to think the GBP price in the UK is higher than the Euro price in the rest of Europe so if they are normalizing prices to the euro then the eventual UK price would be less. However, I think you'll find the complaint is that the UK will start paying the same higher price as mainlain Europe, 20-35% according to the article. So your rant about the UK already paying higher prices is unwarranted.
But never mind, I constantly hear that the Euro is dead and worth less than tuppence so when this is implemented UK customers will be able to buy a licence for the entire MS catolog for three and six.
Thursday 16th February 2012 19:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Then there's the VAT
You might buy from MS in GBP but you will pay the IRISH VAT rate of 23%.
Then you have t ospend more time reclaiming it.
Last year it took HMRC 8 months to get their act together as they were'nt clued up on the Irish VAT change.
Dealing with MS is like trying to climb a pole covered in oil, snake oil.
Thursday 16th February 2012 21:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 16th February 2012 22:16 GMT Joe Montana
Plan long term
For now, just stick with the versions you already have...
And plan a slow transition to open source, don't throw everything out over night but ensure any new systems you implement are cross platform (eg web based and work on any browser).
If you plan it well, a slow gradual transition away from ms needn't be too painful or expensive... There's no point ditching what you've already bought and paid for, but similarly no point in getting yourself more locked in...
Most systems get refreshed after a few years anyway, so if you require that any new systems you deploy must be cross platform compatible then it won't be too long before the windows-specific business apps are rotated out anyway.
Thursday 16th February 2012 23:09 GMT toadwarrior
Friday 17th February 2012 12:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Friday 17th February 2012 13:57 GMT dubno
Re: Re: Linux ftw
My time isn't free; and that's why I'd rather spend 2 seconds entering a password to have ALL my Linux OS/applications updated in a single action as opposed to an hour spent dealing with separate Windows OS, applications updates, new versions of Firefox, Adobe, Java etc etc etc ad naseum...
I never understand people who spout the "can't spend time getting Linux to work". Seriously setting it up and keeping it running is far easier than Windows.
Friday 17th February 2012 13:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Linux ftw
We tried paying nothing for Red Hat at work, it's a nightmare. The problem is that we're a small software house, we write software which interacts with commercial software which runs on RHEL, so we have to run RHEL for compatibility testing, not CentOS.
Have you ever tried to run RHEL without support? You have to manually install all packages and sort out the dependencies yourself, it's a complete nightmare.
The point I'm making is - if you want to run Linux commercially and supported it's not free.
Friday 17th February 2012 13:33 GMT Miek
Re: Re: Linux ftw
"Have you ever tried to run RHEL without support?" -- yes
"You have to manually install all packages and sort out the dependencies yourself, it's a complete nightmare." -- No you don't.
"The point I'm making is - if you want to run Linux commercially and supported it's not free." -- true, but at least you're not paying to install and use RHEL, only have it supported by Red Hat. Have you never taken out a support contract with a $MS product or another proprietary application that runs on $MSwarez?
Friday 17th February 2012 17:19 GMT Anonymous Coward
Is that a no to manually installing packages, a no to finding the dependent packages and installing them yourself, or both?
Also, if you're going to post that sort of thing, details of how to do it would be appreciated.
You may not be paying for install of Red Hat, but you pay support per server installed for support, so it's pretty much the same thing. I have found that Red Hat actually tends to cost more than MS, for the OS particularly if you factor in the likes of Technet, which allows a vast amount of MS software to be installed for a trivial annual payment, provided it's for development/non-production work.
Thursday 16th February 2012 23:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
UK / EU pricing differences
shame that we aren't in a free market economy then, anyone would think the euro countries had leaned on MS to rip-off Sterling customers even more than they already are compared with US pricing. Prices going up, no localisation of software (for example there's no such language as "English (United Kingdom)" - it's English), and now they want to charge more just to fit in with euro? Can only be political meddling.
One would have to be paranoid to suggest that, of course.
Friday 17th February 2012 06:10 GMT Christian Berger
It's like slowly driving towards a wall
In about 2000 everybody said that such closed systems, particularly with Windows, wouldn't be sustainable. Today not only some companies are facing bankruptcy because of license cost increases, others are fearing that new hardware might not be able to run Windows XP which is needed to run business critical software from the 1990s which is not compatible with newer versions of Windows.
So dear businesses, if you want to spend your money wisely, invest in open standards. If you want a certain application, try to find it as a "web application" preferably running on your own virtual server inside your company. Or run those applications on central servers where you can log in via RDP, VNC or X11. Most business applications aren't very demanding, one properly maintained powerful server is often enough for several hundred users.
Look at the Unix(oid) world. There are software packages out there which are from the late 1960s and are still used today (Maxima for example). That's simply because they aren't to demanding and have always interfaced to the world with open standards. (in this case, teletypes)
Friday 17th February 2012 09:59 GMT nsld
Why do people do this to themselves
I opened a new office recently and simply put Open Office on the machines, none of my new hires are struggling with it.
The only items we are stuck with are Outlook as the US parent company uses it and insists we do but everything else was down to my budget and I spent nothing.
Friday 17th February 2012 10:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
I like linux, I used it for many years but I use one of the main two now (the fruity one) for the sake of ease and I don't think its good value in terms of the cost.
I do promote FOSS to all my clients, but paying licenses gives people the idea there is someone to blame when things go wrong.
I know V, Redding is more about the telecommes stuff, but shouldn't the issue here be about being able to buy in euros and therefore pay the same price as Europe. If its an EU wide pricing policy then doesn't if follow that there should be an EU wide purchasing option and if not shouldn't it be taken up with the muppets in brussels? Whinging at a company with such grip on its clients for raising prices, futile.
Friday 17th February 2012 10:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Friday 17th February 2012 11:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
Linux is irrelevant in this topic. There are a number of reasons why someone might need to choose MS regardless of price.
Comparing windows server prices in the US 2008 R2 Standard is $500 which should be £385, however we pay £517 before any rises! To be clear no VAT or sales tax is included in either price, there are no import taxes to pay since it is manufactured inside the EU. There is no reasonable justification for this difference let alone any price hike.
Friday 17th February 2012 13:25 GMT Gareth.
Agree - as much as I'm an advocat of Linux, I've also been around long enough to know that there are many cases where using something other than Windows isn't an option. Unfortunately, too often people will just switch off when they see the word Linux being banded about in discussions such as this because they're not in a position to switch OSes..
That's a shame because FOSS doesn't exclusively mean Linux. There are plenty of open source applications that can be run under a Windows OS, such as OpenOffice.org, AbiWord, Gimp, Blender, etc... which those people who have switched off and started doing something else may not even be aware of.
If people start by using open source applications and find that, contrary to what they may have thought previously, just because something is 'free' doesn't mean it's not professionally written and equally as good if not better than their paid-for equivalents, then they're more likely to be open-minded about trying a FOSS operating system. It's much easier for someone to switch OS if they're already au fait with the applications that they'll run on it.
As I said, I am a big fan of Linux but sometimes I think it's better to demonstrate the benefits of it as an OS if you've already got people on-board the open source boat.
Friday 17th February 2012 12:41 GMT Wensleydale Cheese
It's welcome news for me in Switzerland
"My American friends need not worry - no changes for you (that I am aware of) - and my Swiss friends, well you are actually going to see a significant price drop if all goes to plan. Unfortunately I don’t have any Swiss friends so I can’t celebrate with you."
Hurrah for that! Long overdue in my opinion too. Microsoft's Swiss prices make me cringe, simply because they haven't changed since the days when the dollar was worth a lot more than the Swiss franc.
I've just had a look at Swiss price comparison site toppreise.ch for Windows 7 Ultimate. While you'd be a fool to pay the top prices there, the upgrade version of Win7Ult comes in at up to 469.90 Swiss Francs and I know I have seen the full retail version in shops at over 500 Francs.
It's a similar story for Microsoft Office, once you get above the Home & Student version the prices are silly.
To put those prices into perspective, the retail price of a Mac Mini is 649 Francs. Yes that's right, I can currently get a whole computer, OS included, for less than WIndows 7 Ultimate plus Office, and if a Mac Mini isn't your cup of tea, a reasonably swift Intel or AMD box with no OS can be had for a similar price and you can put the *nix of your choice on it.
(For comparison, 1.00 GBP = 1.454 CHF,1.00 USD = 0.918 CHF )
Friday 17th February 2012 13:00 GMT deadlockvictim
Re: It's welcome news for me in Switzerland
You live in Switzerland and you use the handle 'Wensleydale Cheese'?!? Shame upon thee! You probably live in the British outpost of Zug. That's like living in Cupertino, CA and using BSD.
There are so many nice cheeses there - Emmental, Vacherin, Ziger, Tilsiter and Gruyère to name some famous oned. The list in Wikipedia  goes on.
 Or whatever the correct sequence is to express righteous indignation.
Friday 17th February 2012 13:16 GMT Wensleydale Cheese
Re: Re: It's welcome news for me in Switzerland
Nope, not in Zug. I've got a great selection of Swiss, French and Italian cheeses 100 metres away from where I am sitting, and in either direction too, but cheese is one of my vices: I also have a good supplier of carefully selected British Cheeses in Switzerland. I picked the moniker when I was enjoying one of them.
Saturday 18th February 2012 09:24 GMT Wensleydale Cheese
British Cheeses can be good as well
Yes, but neither should you ignore what's on your own doorstep:
"British cheese has made a comeback":
British Cheese in Swittzerland:
Believe me, this guy's customers aren't just expats; he has plenty of Swiss customers too,
Friday 17th February 2012 15:25 GMT David Evans
well I'm definitely going to get downvoted on this one...
Since Sterling devalued, there's been a pretty susbstantial lag in price adjustments for imported goods that's only really started to kick in over the last six-nine months. Relative to the Euro zone, and relative to the dollar (before sales tax/VAT), MS software (and lots of others - take a look at prices on Steam) has been cheap in Sterling. An adjustment is inevitable.
This is the price the UK has to pay for "quantitive easing". Its all very well crowing about the basket cases in the Euro zone, but higher prices is the inevitable outcome of the UK not becoming Ireland or Italy.
Friday 17th February 2012 16:11 GMT TiddlyPom
Why not migrate over an OS developed by a UK company Ubuntu/Canonical
Well technically Canonical have created a distribution as the development is world wide. I have used Ubuntu as my primary desktop in a work environment for just under 5 years now. In terms of substitutions:
* Ubuntu 11.10 instead of Windows 7
* Ubuntu 11.10 (with SAMBA, OpenLDAP + GOSA) instead of Windows Server
* LibreOffice 3.5 instead of Office 2010 (can now read Visio files as well)
* CUPS-PDF to generate PDF outputs
* Mozilla Firefox 10 instead of Internet Explorer 9
* Mozilla Thunderbird/Lightning 10 instead of Outlook 2010
* OpenProj instead of Microsoft Project
* GNUCash instead of Quicken
* Zimbra (or Citadel) instead of Microsoft Exchange
* Alfresco instead of Sharepoint
* MySQL (or PosgreSQL) instead of Microsoft SQL Server 2008
* GIMP instead of Adobe Photoshop
* Empathy instead of MSN
* Eclipse instead of Visual Studio
* Jira and Jenkins instead of MS Team Foundation Server
I can just hear the Microsoft supporters scoffing now. Not any longer. The dream IS possible. You do NOT need Microsoft OR Windows.(at all) - yes really (and yes I do swap documents/emails/messages and interoperate with people running Windows).
Instead of buying Windows licences - why not donate money to open source based companies (like Canonical or the Fedora Foundation - much better value for money.
FUD fail. It is no harder to run a PC with a modern distribution of Linux than Windows - in fact many ways much easier.
Have a look for yourself:
http://www.libreoffice.org/ (an office suite)
Just think how many £millions we could save in schools and government if we migrated from Windows to Linux - and not be tied to one (nearly) monopolistic vendor.
Instead of scoffing - why not (absolutely legally) download a copy of a Linux distribution and TRY IT!.
Friday 17th February 2012 17:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Why not migrate over an OS developed by a UK company Ubuntu/Canonical
I don't see the point of your comment.
There are many free alternatives to MS software on Windows and over half those you mention already have free versions for windows anyway. Given that the purchase of a PC usually includes a version of windows(*) capable of running all that free software then there is no saving to be made.
(*)You can rant on about the unfairness of this if you wish but if it hadn't been for windows then the PC would not have become as common place as it now is and you would only be able to have wet dreams about linux.
Also, the only people who would claim linux is easier to manage than window are those such as yourself. You might consider having a different package manager for each variant of linux (apt, yast, yum and urpmi to name some) to be easier than windows but quite honestly, it isn't. And that's before getting to sometimes needing to install from source. Any operating system that requires a compiler for installing applications is only half finished. Oh, and then there are the different desktops. How can you consider something easier to maintain when there are so many inconsistencies across the numerous variants?
Wednesday 22nd February 2012 14:20 GMT Gabor Laszlo
Re: Re: Why not migrate over an OS developed by a UK company Ubuntu/Canonical
[prices are from Munich, Germany]
1. Office spec PC without Windows :300€
Same box with Windows7 Home Premium: 380€
Time to slap a Linux onto said PC and set it up: about 1h, or an average of 20min if done in bulk, counted at 30€/h: 10-30€
(*) That's like saying that without McD we'd have all starved
2. If you're deploying in an organization you'll settle on one distro/dm and stick with it. And if your IT guy is not braindead he'll pick one that's easy to maintain/patch/support (I'm partial to Mint myself, but that's a matter of taste)
Sunday 19th February 2012 12:47 GMT TiddlyPom
Reply to Chris W
I have heard the FUD about Linux being harder to manage rolled out so many time over the years, Perhaps a decade ago that would certainly be true but not today.
Right. Not a fair comparison is it. Most people buy a laptop with Windows fully installed and configured and then just use it.
My next door neighbour has an Acer laptop . It was running Windows 7 and running slowly with virus scanner, malware scanner, Acer supplied unnecessary software etc. He asked me what I used.
I helped HIM install Ubuntu (he kept a paper log of what he did). About two hours later we have everything working (including multimedia). The laptop was MUCH faster under Ubuntu. He loved it and is still using Ubuntu and has loaded Ubuntu onto two friend's computers.
This is very much a typical experience. Modern Linux distributions (like Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, PCLinuxOS etc) are EASY to use and to administer. Epic FUD fail!
Do you think that Microsoft and Apple are attacking Linux (Android, Red Hat and other distributions) for no reason? Do you honestly think if Linux was that hard to use then they would be bothered?
FUD fail again.
Modern Linux distributions have graphical application managers which are very similar to App Stores in iOS and Android (by the way - Android IS based on Linux so anyone who is using an Android device is already using a Linux distribution!)
Have a look at Ubuntu Software Centre - and decide whether the comment above is FUD
Fail and FUD again :) Much easier than installing software on Windows IMHO!
Not everybody will like Linux - that's certainly true but at least if there were PCs running Windows, OS/X and (say) a couple of Linux distributions then there would be better choice.
BTW anyone who thinks there are no games for Linux have a look here:
Finally - if you want some REAL propaganda - look here
Monday 20th February 2012 08:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Reply to Chris W
Unlike you I am not on a mission. I will use whatever is appropriate for the job and whatever you come up with linux desktop is not ready nor suitable for the masses. You've said it yourself.
>Right. Not a fair comparison is it. Most people buy a laptop with Windows fully installed and configured and then just use it.
Why isn't it a fair comparison? Because it doesn't suit your agenda? People want to use things they buy out of the box, I don't find that unusual. As for windows being slow? Repeat it often enough and you will believe it, many gamers would say otherwise. Personally I have always found linux desktop to be incredibly slow.
>I helped HIM install Ubuntu
Exactly. Do you think people will take the time to read all the how tos? The sheer number of linux how tos compared to those for windows speaks volumes about the suitability of Linux for the masses. Then you have to consider that many how tos to acheieve the same thing are different on different distributions of linux.
Whatever you may think. Linux is not suitable for the rank and file.
Monday 20th February 2012 10:21 GMT TiddlyPom
Re: Chris W
I too use whatever I need to get the job done. I use Linux, Windows and OS/X on a daily basis.
My 'mission' (as you put it is) to show people that Windows is OPTIONAL - and that there is another option which is free, more secure and just as easy to use. If someone is happy with Windows then that is their choice - but if they are AWARE of another option then they can make their own mind up.
Both my children (12 and 9) use Linux (their choice) - they were both offered OS/X and Windows (I had another 2nd hand Mac which I later sold) - both love the fact that they can legally download and use whatever applications they want :)
TOS - I don't think so! Neighbour booted up laptop from live CD - took defaults from install (partition-wise) and asked one question (about doing updates during install). After reboot he needed one piece of help (to be pointed to the Medibuntu page) and needed no help from me (just did the cut/paste as directed on the page). Everything else was done from the Software Centre. Machine prompted him to load NVidia drivers (which he did).
Total time - about 40 minutes (including actual installation from Live CD). After a glass of beer to celebrate (+ showing off using Firefox + LibreOffice to his wife).
When Windows 8 appears and everybody has to relearn a new Windows yet again as with XP-to-Vista or Office 2010 - perhaps you will be shouting out about how much effort is required for people to migrate over and how much they have to read. No - I thought not :)
Linux is NOT harder than Windows and is just as suitable for the "rank and file" (as you put it) as Windows is (or for that matter OS/X).
Methinks you are terrified of people actually discovering that the "hard to use" FUD is just that - FUD. If a 12 and 9 year old child can use it as easily as Windows (and they actually think that Windows 7 is harder and non-intuitive) then so can anyone else.