back to article Google emails Virgin Media subscribers ... about privacy

Fuming Virgin Media customers have taken to the telco's forum to complain that their email addresses have been used by Google, instead of being kept private. The customers got a surprise email from Google today, who seemed to think they were all users. The Chocolate Factory is in the middle of updating its users about its new …

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  1. BoldMan
    FAIL

    Lesson #1: don't use an ISP email address

    Lesson #2: don't use Google email at all.

    1. LarsG

      WITH SO MANY ...

      People putting their whole live on the internet through social media, buying goods, joining forums, signing up for free email accounts, using broadband, owning a mobile phone etc.

      WHY is it such a surprise when these things happen like a breech of privacy.

      Not only will it happen but it will get worse to the point that the notion of privacy will cease to exist.

      There is an answer, Pay cash, register nowhere, never go online, never fill in a form. Simple, or is it?

      1. Atonnis
        Stop

        Simple answer...

        People use different email accounts for different things. Many have hotmail or gmail or yahoo mail accounts for the purposes of signing up to services, buying stuff on the internet, etc.

        Those same people like to have their own personal address, usually ISP supplied, as their private address to use between them and their select friends/family.

        The email account associated with your ISP account is the one that people see that they are paying for. You pay for that email account and as such it should have protections from being sold off, abused or spammed by sneaky companies like Google.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, wrong lesson

      The lesson is for telcos and MSOs - you no longer have a userbase.

      By screwing all of your "systems" people, by leaving DNS, Email, News, etc rot as "non-essential" until all of your people go somewhere else and by giving the job to Google because you suck bricks sidewise running these you have now given Google all of your userbase. Voluntarily. If you have not given it to Google it is in the hands of MSFT (or yahoo for the very ones who sucked so bad in being an ISP that they had to "outsource" their email more than 5 years ago).

      Now do not complain, bend over and do not wriggle. Resistance is futile. Your users shall be monetised and _NOT_ by you.

      Signed - ex DNS, ex Email and ex-Systems person who has changed his profession and who is giggling madly watching the chickins coming home to roost and having diarrhea.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Give us a clue.

        Signed - a different ex DNS, ex Email and ex-Systems person who has retired from IT.

    3. MagicBoy
      Paris Hilton

      Lesson #1 : No option. I've been using the address since 1999, had no option but to let VM shift it to Google.

      Lesson #2 : I'm not, apart from the Lesson #1 issue.

    4. dephormation.org.uk
      Big Brother

      Lesson #3

      Lesson #3. Do not trust Virgin/NTL (or BT, or TalkTalk... or the UK mobile telcos for that matter...) with the privacy/security/integrity of your personal or commercial communications. Find a trustworthy telco, or learn to encrypt.

  2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

    Outraged?

    Wouldn't say so. The *only* use for the VM (previously NTL) email account I have is when VM themselves send me mails.

    After all, only numptys use ISP specific email addresses when there are so many (better) alternatives. Unfortunately most non-savvy users are foisted on and railroaded into using an ISP's email address and doubtless this is seen as a carrot/stick by the ISP when it comes to retaining the punter - after all changing your email address just because you change ISP (either for cost or provision reasons) can be an extremely annoying process.

    It's even more ridiculous when a company has gone to the trouble of getting their own domain name and website and yet still uses <mycompany>@btinernet.com or something equally amateurish. Keeps "web consultants" in a job though...

  3. Arnold Lieberman
    FAIL

    Teleworst

    I stopped using Blueyonder/Telewest/Virgin-whatever email years ago, when they first went to Exchange server and kept screwing up. Looks like they've jumped form the frying pan into the fire.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Misinformation

    I think these people (Virgin Media customers) have every right to be upset, I would too most likely. Just check out their website (virginmedia.com), you won't find anything saying something about e-mail. The packages basically include "broadband, tv, phone, mobile". This isn't even mentioned in their faq's.

    Only if you check things yourself will you find that....

    [xxx@smtp ~]$ dig virginmedia.com mx

    <cut>

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:

    virginmedia.com. 3352 IN MX 10 aspmx3.googlemail.com.

    virginmedia.com. 3352 IN MX 1 aspmx.l.google.com.

    virginmedia.com. 3352 IN MX 5 alt1.aspmx.l.google.com.

    virginmedia.com. 3352 IN MX 5 alt2.aspmx.l.google.com.

    virginmedia.com. 3352 IN MX 10 aspmx2.googlemail.com.

    'nough said I think. I know I'd be outraged.

    Still; some people make valid points above. Don't rely on the ISP's e-mail services for your main address(es). Because what happens if you should decide to switch providers? Right now I think you're better of using a free provider (Yahoo, Hotmail) or maybe even a commercial one (Godaddy provides free e-mail with a domain registration for example).

    That way you'll be sure that you're entitled to /some/ sense of privacy and should you ever change ISP's then you won't have to manually inform all of your friends & family.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      get your own domain name, and set up forwarding for email. The cost is trivial, and you can still use the ISP for delivery if you feel the need. That way you can give out a different email address to each organisation, trace which ones leak it and redirect it to the bit bucket when compromised.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ^

        Good advise.

        1. Crazy Operations Guy Silver badge

          An Amazon Cloud system is pretty good too

          Cost me like $10/month with 'static' IP and everything/ Small little BSD box running Postfix, dovecot and a free cert from StartSSL, I provide mail services to all my friends and family giving them an unlimited number of addresses (At one of domain names of course) and allows me to give a different address to everyone I deal with.

          However somehow google got a hold of some of my addresses and I got a bunch of copies of their new Privacy Policy. How they got it, I have no clue at all as I actively avoid the chocolate factory and their services.

    2. The Fuzzy Wotnot
      Thumb Up

      Excactly!

      You can buy a ( .me.uk ) domain from FreeParking ( as an example ) for as little as £5, they will give you unlimited number of POP boxes. If you're a bit more savvy, set up your own email server on cheap low-power PC in the spare room and route your own mailboxes.

      1. PyLETS
        Linux

        @The Fuzzy Wotnot

        As another poster has pointed out, you can run a cloud virtual server with a static IP on a rather better connected host than anything in your spare room for not much more than your spare room's electricity bill. I don't recommend the spare room approach for email . I was doing this myself many years ago on a dialup, but even that had a static IP address, and an ISP (Demon) which ran a secondary MX for the domain. Nowadays you'll get more reliable delivery using a virtual server with a cloud provider or reputable hosting firm such as Bytemark. The spare room approach also has the problem of whoever gets your dynamically assigned IP next being able to obtain your messages just by listening for them and accepting them coming in on port 25.

  5. Anonymous Cowerd
    Mushroom

    ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US

    THEY SET US UP THE MAILBOMB!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't get the problem.

    Surely it's only common sense that Google must know your email address if they are running your email service?

    Virgin were upfront with their subscribers that they were moving to Googles mail platform for their email.

    For privacy and evil, I think that Google and Virgin are probably on a par; both want to monetize you to their other services, both don't really care how.

    And finally, this is just going to turn out to be that someone at Google used the "All" list instead of the "All-gmail" to send the notification. Nothing nefarious, beyond the usual level of nefariousness.

    1. Craigness

      Not nefarious, but an intrusion nonetheless. If you don't have a contract with Google they shouldn't be emailing you about the terms of ...erm... their contracts.

      1. Shades
        Facepalm

        Intrusion?

        Its an email.

        1. Graham Marsden
          FAIL

          @Shades

          "Its an email"

          So is spam...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Not quite..

        Virgin, allegedly, told their customers that they were sub contracting the mail service to Google, and therefore , implicitly there is a contract with Google.

        As its a change of contract between customer and company, the client/company can opt out.

        Ready for legal flack (with references of course) from the uninformed and a load of negative points!!!!.

        1. Peter Holgate
          Mushroom

          No they didnt

          Virgin NEVER informed the NTL customers (at least) of their transfer to Google mail. I only discovered this after the Spam influx mulitplied from 1 a month pre transfer to 30 a day post transfer.

          I HATE Google mail - stuck with it at work too!

          1. Tech Hippy

            Yes they did

            I still have the email on record of the changes, with instructions on how to login. The notification was sent to all 4 of the ntlworld email accounts I had at the time of the switch, giving 2 weeks notice.

            And spam for me has dropped to none, with no false positives across 4 separate ntlworld addresses.

            Quite frankly, as a customer back from the CableTel days, having email moved over to Google's back end was a massive, massive improvement.

            No more outages, no reports of lack of space on the mail server.

        2. Atonnis
          Facepalm

          Well you got one bit right...

          'Uninformed' is exactly the situation. When I signed up to Virgin I didn't get any clear notification that the email account I received as part of the paid package was hosted/run by Google.

          Fortunately I don't use it - never signed into it.

          1. John G Imrie Silver badge

            Nither did I

            But I did notice the gmail folder appear in my folder list in Thunderbird when I first connected to their email server.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's even worse...

    Some of my children have received these emails from Google on accounts that were set up for private family communication, and we don't know yet how Google got hold of them. This is really getting out of control...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      ...and in case anyone is wondering

      ...these accounts weren't set up with Virgin or Google either. So where have they scraped them up from?

      1. Robin Bradshaw

        "these accounts weren't set up with Virgin or Google either. So where have they scraped them up from?"

        If i had to guess id say your kids probably created an account on youtube so they could comment and post stuff/ lie about their age and since google are tying stuff together under one login then this may be something that affects them.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          ...not all children

          @Robin: "If i had to guess id say your kids probably created an account on youtube so they could comment and post stuff/ lie about their age and since google are tying stuff together under one login then this may be something that affects them."

          I say 'kids' from my perspective, but one of them is an adult (and has no interest in YouTube et al). I've checked, and these are these are valid "Changes to Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service" messages. I'm seriously thinking of avoiding even Google's search now.

          1. Grease Monkey

            "I'm seriously thinking of avoiding even Google's search now."

            If you had any sense at all you wouldn't have been using "even Google's search" for some time.

      2. Shades

        Have you got...

        ...a YouTube account, Blogger account, Picassa account or an account with some other Google owned service? Google unified the accounts for their various services a while ago. If you have got an account with one of these services try going to Google and signing in, just don't be surprised if your login is successful!

        1. CD001

          @Shades

          You might have a Google account even if you don't use any of those services... some sites are starting to go down the OpenID route with many login options available. So you could have set up a Google account for StackOverflow for instance...

          The point being that it's not even necessarily a Google service that gets you your Google account; could be any service that uses Google login - and once you're logged into one, you're logged into all.

          1. Shades

            That doesn't sound...

            ...quite right to me.

            In my experience - at least - the chances of creating an OpenID account and not knowing with which OpenID provider you are creating it are slim to none. All OpenID enabled sites I've encountered will, for the purposes of OpenID account creation, direct you towards one or more OpenID providers OWN websites, making it completely transparent with whom you are signing up for an OpenID account with.

            Using your example of StackOverflow - which only allows logins with OpenID accounts - if you don't already have an OpenID account you are directed towards the OpenID website itself. There you are given the choice of numerous OpenID providers, all of which are made quite CLEAR with whom you can sign up for an OpenID account with, because you have to go to the providers own website.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        oh dear really??

        if you dislike the openness of the internet an still feel violated for your 'adult' children that have clearly ticked or not unticked a box somewhere just box up your pcs disconnect yourself and use the royal mail instead judging from your previous posts I'm surprised you haven't already;

        better get your tinfoil hat on-. "moan moan moan..."

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/user/38418/

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Craigness

      Are you sure it's google sending the email? It could be spoofed. Getting email addresses is simple - just take a prefix from a real email address you've scanned and add it to every free email domain you can think of. ralph5@live.com, for example. Another way I think they might do it is by scanning the addresses in those chain mails that go round. People tend to forward those and include the addresses of everyone on the To list when they received it. Those addresses form the body of the mail when it hits its next bunch of recipients and 2 sets of To addresses get forwarded to the next link in the chain. Eventually you can get thousands of addresses being forwarded all over the world, and it will arrive at a spammer in due course.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Prepare to be Assimilated into the GoogleBorg collective, resistance is futile.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wrong

      The borg were defeated, quite easily in the end, you have not been watching Star trek closely enough, but I wont down mark you for that.

  9. Shades

    As I posted...

    in another article comment ...The problem, that a lot of people have in common, is that they fail to read the I'm not trying to be a smart-arse about this but if your with Virgin YOU gave them permission to make changes to the services they, or others on their behalf, provide after you signed on the dotted line AND give your information to third parties in the course of providing those services.

    Also, to be fair to Virgin, at the time of the switch they DID give notice on their website, and send out an emails to the same effect, that they were switching to Google as their email provider rather than continue running their own in-house services inherited from Blue Yonder, NTL, etc. Granted, Google should have gone through Virgin first but at least they have notified the users of THEIR services (and as mentioned before, it is their service, not Virgins).

    following is from: http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff.html

    B (1): General

    f. Some parts of the services (for example, television channels that form part of our television services and other content on, or accessible via, our television services) are supplied by other organisations. As a result, due to matters outside our reasonable control or for commercial or contractual reasons, Virgin Media Ltd may change, cancel or postpone all or any component part(s) of the services without notice, but giving you reasonable notice of any withdrawals and changes where it is possible to do so. You will be entitled to end these agreements if the changes are significant, as described in paragraph J5.

    G (2): By having the services provided by us installed in your home and/or by using them you are providing your consent to use your personal information together with other information for the following purposes:

    a. providing you with the services, service information and updates;

    Occasionally third parties may be used to process your personal information in the ways outlined above. These third parties are permitted to use the data only in accordance with Virgin Media Ltd's instructions (as applicable).

    H (2): Virgin Media Ltd and/or Virgin Media Payments may at any time improve, modify, amend or alter the terms of these agreements and/or the services and their content if:

    b. Virgin Media Ltd decide that the services should be altered for reasons of quality of service or otherwise for the benefit of customers or, in Virgin Media Ltd's reasonable opinion, it is necessary to do so;

    c. for security, technical or operational reasons;

    f. if the changes or additions are minor and do not affect you significantly or we wish to have all our customers on the same terms and conditions; or

    g. in all other events, where we reasonably determine that any modification to the relevant system or change in trading, operating or business practices or policies is necessary to maintain or improve the services provided to you.

    W

    1. Shades

      Damn phone!

      The first sentence was supposed to read:

      "The problem, that a lot of people have in common, is that they fail to read the T&Cs."

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Alien

        Re Shades

        The reason for that is all the years of agreeing to Microsoft's EULA which says that they can't be held liable for anything (including the 2nd coming)

        1. DragonTales

          When VM moved to Google I asked VM what information would be shared I was told that Google would hold no account information on VM customers including email address.

          Clearly someone was being economical with the truth!!!!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            ICO

            Check the DP entries for Virgin and I am sure you will find they have covered their derrieres.

          2. heyrick Silver badge

            @ DragonTales

            Wait, Google will be providing your Virgin mail service but would not know your Virgin email address? Didn't that strike you as illogical?

            1. Grease Monkey

              "When VM moved to Google I asked VM what information would be shared I was told that Google would hold no account information on VM customers including email address.

              Clearly someone was being economical with the truth!!!!"

              Yes, but who?

              Did Virgin really tell you they wouldn't be sharing even your email address with Google? If they did they would be lying, but I don't think even VM would be stupid enough to expect users to believe that the company operating their mail servers would not know the users email addresses. And if VM were that stupid how stupid does that make the users who believed them?

              Go on, explain, how do you think Google could operate mail servers without knowing the users email addresses?

              Is suspect they told you that they would not share any information OTHER THAN the email address and password for that account.

  10. Shades

    True (sorta!)

    But I'm sure companies giving themselves the right to change contracts, in the contracts themselves, pre-dates Microsoft by a long way. I'm equally sure people have been failing to read the T&Cs for just as long too.

    1. Shades

      God damn it!

      What the hell am I doing today? The above was supposed to be in reply to Steve Davies 3's reply to my own post above!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It stands to reason...

    ...that Google have the ability to push a message into all inboxes without having to know user's addresses. It wouldn't be very efficient for Google to mail everyone directly.

    As a VM customer I'm not outraged like I was at O2 yesterday.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Darn! Too late...

    Imagine setting up a honey pot where the only time the email address was ever used was when it was embedded within an e-mail or document sent and saved to a google user.

    Then you can test to see if Google picked up your e-mail address from the content.

  13. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Chris 3

      The problem is...

      Google is a Virgin Media subcontractor, which has contacted Virgin Media customers directly warning them that Google is changing its policies and the Virgin Media customer has to accept that or stop using the service. Except that the Virgin Media customer isn't and never has been subject to Google's privacy policy - so what's up with that.

      It's like getting an e-mail from Cisco or Pace.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Indeed, but then Virgin probably accepted that or were to dumb to see what would happen.

        Outsource your service, lose control and respect. And not just from the end customer...

  14. Alan Gauton
    Megaphone

    Virgin Only

    Just checked my Sky e-mail account, also run by Google. They've e-mailed them as well.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sky email users received the same email

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How about...

    ...if people are so outraged that the company running the e-mail service knows their e-mail address, how about they just merge everyone's inbox into one big catch-all account - then they wouldn't know anybody's address. Simple.

    Morons...

  17. muttley
    Facepalm

    Just a database snafu...

    ...for branded email accounts hosted on the Google backend I suspect.

    This morning:

    "Dear Google user,

    We’re getting rid of over 60 different privacy policies across Google and replacing them with one that’s a lot shorter and easier to read. Our new policy covers multiple products and features, reflecting our desire to create one beautifully simple and intuitive experience across Google." etc

    I've only just realised whilst cutting and pasting into this that it was sent to my ntlworld address (and subsequently fetched into my GAFYD-hosted address).

    The horror.

  18. Steve Renouf
    Holmes

    Own none ISP email & domain

    from, for instance, 1and1

    http://order.1and1.co.uk/MailInstantMail;jsessionid=4D6795B5ACD31F4951DECC1EF976B87B.TCpfix140a?__lf=Order&linkOrigin=Instant&linkId=hd.nav.instantmail

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I also had an email to a non-Google address

    which has never been associated with a Google account, and, to the best of my knowledge, isn't hosted on a Google platform...

  20. roger 8

    well i set a new email accound up on my own domain yesterday got a google email on it today. and ive not even given it out to anyone

  21. Neil Alexander
    FAIL

    "Infuriated customers want to know how the Goog got their addresses"

    Virgin Media delegated their email service to Google. Therefore it is VERY STRAIGHT-FORWARD TO UNDERSTAND exactly why Google have their email addresses, because GOOGLE PROVIDE THE EMAIL ADDRESSES.

    Sigh. Are people getting stupider or what?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They're infuriated because they never choose to accept Google's privacy policy and to have their ISP account combined with other Google profiles. They took up Virgin Media's privacy policy, not Google's.

      You're the one not understanding this.

      1. Neil Alexander
        Stop

        Did you fail to read the article?

        This has nothing to do with "customers upset that email outsourced to Google", this is about "Google shouldn't have emailed Virgin Media customers".

        In any case, when you agree to Virgin Media's terms and conditions, you agree to them outsourcing your email. If you choose to use that service, you agree to the service terms and conditions too. If you, as a consumer, did not bother to read them, you do not have the right to be "infuriated".

      2. Not That Andrew
        Facepalm

        Should this have happened? Of course not.

        Was this unforseeable? No, anyone with the vaguest familiarity with how Virgin and Google operate could and did have seen this coming.

      3. Grease Monkey

        "You're the one not understanding this."

        No you are, because you are reading detail that simply isn't there.

        It's over two years since VM outsourced their email to Google and informed their users of this and any attended changes in the T&Cs at the time. If people wanted to complain about that they would have done so then.

        For the most part people are complaining that they received the mail direct from Google rather than it being passed via VM. Perhaps Google and VM did make an error of judgment in allowing this to happen, but the fact is that Google mailed andybody with an account on *their* servers because *their* terms of service are changing. I suspect most users would rather hear about this now so that they can make an informed decision (ie stop using VM mail and use somebody else to avoid Google) rather than wait months for VM to get round to telling them.

  22. James Chaldecott
    WTF?

    Call that outrage?

    What about the outrage TiVo users are expressing due to the fact that Virgin Media is about to disable all "unofficial" TiVo control apps (except the really simple ones), including the workarounds to use the US TiVo app?

    These two threads have > 140 posts, rather than the paltry 21 posts on the thread referenced in the article!

    http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/TiVo/New-FW-update-broken-Tivo-Commander-etc/td-p/979929

    http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/TiVo/New-Update-coming-31st-Jan-9th-Feb/td-p/990593

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    People do realise this is Google telling you they're combining even more of your information, informatin that was once kept split between your various accounts?

    This is good for you how?

    Next they'll just give you a (single, combined) Google+ profile.

    1. Grease Monkey

      If you have the common sense not to use Google for anything then they won't be doing anything to you. And just because you have a VM account that doesn't mean you are tied to using VM's outsourced mail services. There are plenty of other free mail providers out there. Indeed there is no service that Google provide that isn't available free somewhere else.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Virgin missing the point

    "A Virgin Media spokesperson told The Register: "Google provides our email platform and we're aware they’ve emailed some Virgin Media Mail users directly. We’re speaking to Google to understand why.""

    No, the question is not why have Google mailed Virgin's customers. The correct question is why have Virgin allowed their customers to be exposed to Google without advising them of this. It's the kind of critical information that enables people to make informed decisions about how they use such a service. The Virgin spokesperson's response above misses the point entirely. Customers' privacy was apparently mishandled a long time ago; this event was just a marker which exposed the situation.

    1. Grease Monkey

      VM customers were informed that they were "exposed to Google" when VM outsourced their email services to Google two years ago.

  25. Grubby

    The norm

    My email and my ISP are different things, I want the best internet in terms of speed and reliability I go to the best supplier. I want the best email service in terms of storage, access and other add ons i go to the company best at that. The ISPs realised this long ago and so sold off all the parts of the service like email, webspace, cloud storage etc to specialists. Some Vauxhall (Opal US) vans have Renault engines, some Skodas have Audi engines. You'll never hear your ISP brag about who provides their email platform, and you'll never hear Skoda promote their deal with Audi Engines.

    1. Grease Monkey

      Your Skoda/Audi analogy does not hold water. Skoda and Audi are both part of Volkswagen Group and as such they share a lot more than just the engines. Most VW, Skoda, Audi and Seat cars are variously badge engineered versions of VG cars. If VG thought there was anything to be gained in selling a Skoda suopercar that was no more than a thinly disguised Lambo they would do it.

      VM and Google are not part of the same group so this isn't at all similar.

      Oh and BTW Skoda do not pretend that they are not a part of the VG group.

  26. unitron
    Big Brother

    "...We’re speaking to Google to understand why."

    Why? Because they can.

    All your database are belong to us.

  27. Grease Monkey

    #1 Anfy VM customer who didn't know that also makes them a Google customer must have had their head shoved firmly up their arse for the last two years or so.

    #2 What does it matter who sends out the changes. VM customers are GMail customers.

    In short: To be a VM customer is to get shafted.

  28. lotus49
    Meh

    Let's be realistic about this

    I am a VM customer but I also have a Gmail account. I did wonder why I got this message twice and now I know.

    Having said that, come on people. Google already knows who you are, how many times you have sex every week, what your favourite brand of chocolate is and what you do with all that olive oil you buy. Trying to prevent Google assimilating you is like trying to order back the tide.

    Just relax, it will be less painful that way.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    VM service not bad

    I know how we all like to moan about our ISPs (and how we do like to moan) but I'd stick up for VM. I have been a customer of Blueyonder/Telewest/NTL/VM for a long time (>15 years I think) and while the service did take a nose dive when VM took over, it's been OK recently.

    I get one or two 8 hour outages a year but the rest of the time I get good speeds (>30Mb/s down, ~5Mb/s up). I download and upload a lot (no really, A LOT) and I don't get throttled. The service isn't cheap but it's not expensive either and we are all about to be upgraded to double the speed.

    All in all, I'm fairly happy with my service from VM.

    1. Grease Monkey

      You don't get throttled? Really? You must have a very special contract with VM which differs from all the other VM customers. VM openly state that they throttle file sharing for *all* customers at "peak times" (which means of course, any time they choose). And the less you VM pay for your broadband the more you get throttled.

      But if you've been a Virgin customer for 15 years you have nothing to compare it with? Just like my neighbour who has owned nothing but Fords for the last forty-odd years and *knows* they are the best cars in the world even though he has never so much as test driven another brand of car.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Grease Monkey: I don't get throttled either

        But that might be because I prefer not to have the cheapest connection.

        1. Grease Monkey

          I suggest you go and check your TCs with VM. On their website they openly and clearly state that they throttle *all* their users to some extent.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whats the big deal?

    C'mon why you even worrying about Google having your email address, surely they know more about you than just your email address!

    I don't see nothing wrong with Google emailing me, I would rather they informed me about the change than not know at all!

  31. Not That Andrew
    FAIL

    I haven't used my Blueyonder email account since the accountants at Virgin changed over to Google. This does not surprise me, it is the sort of thing I expected.

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