back to article Lumia sales fail to set world alight

Nokia's Lumia handset is barely shifting at all, according to figures from consumer price-comparison site Mobiles Please, though it still manages to be the best selling Windows Phone. Mobiles Please bases the stats on more than 5,000 sales across its family of sites during November, and finds that the Nokia Lumia 800 made up …

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  1. Robert E A Harvey

    And not all sales are to people who want them. I recently worked with people from a huge Swedish multi-national who have all been given Lumia, [1] and who are all trying to give them back. One chap has had 3 fail in a month.

    Now while there will be equally unwilling users of other brands, I doubt whether most Galaxy users are not volunteers.

    [1] I assume the plural of Lumia is Lumia?

    1. Rhyd

      Fail indeed

      I know someone who had 3 fail in a week - first with poor call quality and volume buttons not working, then the replacement wouldn't charge and the third one wouldn't even turn on.

      As for selling well into the enterprise market, I doubt it as there's still no VPN (not that Android fares much better on the VPN front).

      1. ElNumbre
        Thumb Up

        Android VPNs

        Not really a mass-market solution, but a rooted Android will allow for an OpenVPN client which works rather nicely.

      2. Martin Lyne

        Is that Rhyd from CS by the way? If so, alright mate! If not.. I er, hope you're having a lovely day.

      3. Matthew 3

        Android and VPN

        Maybe VPN is a factor in its popularity - the Galaxy S2 works beautifully with my work VPN. I gather that most Android clients don't support Xauth.

        Cisco's AnyConnect VPN client works '...for Samsung or rooted devices'.

      4. big_D Silver badge
        Stop

        Same goes for the iPhone 4...

        We had one user get through 4 iPhone 4s (plural, not 4S) in May and June. Crap call quality, dead batteries, poor WiFi (under 2M) and BlueTooth reception (under 10cm).

        I'm no fan of the Lumina, but Nokia aren't the only ones with quality control problems.

        I think, from the 5 iPhone users we had last year, we have had 8 replacement 3GS phones and now the 4 iPhone 4 phones.

        Okay, that is only anecdotal, not representative of the whole production run, but it is "funny", that such a large number of dud phones turn up over the period of a year in one organisation.

        I think one of our "big" problems with the iPhone was one user who actually uses it as a phone, with up to 4 hours talk time a day. The iPhones don't seem to like that sort of "abuse", they much rather sit in the pocket and do the odd bit of surfing or Angry Birds, but they seem to really hate being used to make calls!

        1. A 31

          had iphone, 3g, and 4, never replaced a single one ... nor have had heard anyone with any issues

          I am no fanboy, but flamin heck, you don't half stick the boot in fo a produc, I and all the others I know must have been dead lucky.

          Feeling sorry for Nokia at the moment I must say,their products aren't that bad at all, but I think they can't be disruptive enough or add something new to the market to differenciate themselves properly.

    2. Ru
      Headmaster

      Plural of Lumia?

      Lumiae would work; it has an appropriate faux-latin feel.

      1. Thomas 4

        Meh,

        For something called a Lumia, based on these sales I wouldn't be using one to keep grues at bay.

      2. Levente Szileszky
        Thumb Up

        Hehe...

        ...but unless we switch to Latin we should stick to Lumias, I think. :)

      3. Charles Manning

        I thought Lumia was already a plural

        of lemon.

        1. maldido gringo
          Happy

          That's exactly what it means in sicilian dialect

    3. Tom 7 Silver badge

      The pural of Lumia

      is 'accidental over-order' or typo.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        A Swedish multinational buying Finish phones?

        1. Robert E A Harvey

          @AC 12:44

          to be fair, of the 3 lads I was working with two have now got their old blackberries back, and the third is using his privately owned iPhone with the company sim in it.

        2. cordwainer 1
          Headmaster

          Not so

          You mean a Swedish multinational buying un-Fine phones - even Finish is too complimentary.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "[1] I assume the plural of Lumia is Lumia?"

      Perhaps in this case the plural of Lumia is 'shit'.

  2. JDX Gold badge

    I though MS were going to be pushing these phones super-hard in the shops... but walking down the highstreet past Orange, Phones4You and another big chain, none were prominently displaying "come try the new Lumia" posters - if they were I'd have gone in to take a look.

    I also haven't seen a single TV ad for Windows Phone 7[.5] - where is the massive marketing campaign MS need to get the ball rolling?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Living under a rock?

      I've seen several variations of WP adverts on the telly, many many times, even to the point I can't get the music out of my head now - where the hell have you been?

      1. GeorgeTuk

        Optional?!

        I haven't noticed them. Maybe we have seen them but not clocked it which is a bit of a shame but then MS never been the best at adverts other than Win 95.

        1. Robert E A Harvey

          @AC

          I've seen 2 WP7 adverts this year on UK telly, and several instances of the annoying one about dad & son both using W7 laptops.

          I've seen loads of adverts at airports for iThings & Galaxy things. Not one for W7 or WP7 (Or playbook for that matter)

      2. Levente Szileszky
        Stop

        Not over here...

        ...in the US; the only one I recall noticing during the past year or two the one in I recognized the streets of my native city Budapest (at least some scenes were shot there.)

      3. The First Dave
        Happy

        I guess that like me, he prefers BBC to ITV these days?

    2. Mentalfloss

      Here in the states...

      Here in the States MS has adverts all over. Radio, the tele, posters in the shops. But still, nobody wants these junk phones. Even the non-techies not aware of the MS issues with Win7 phones just don't like them.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I have noticed a couple of Win Phone TV ads on US TV, but they are VERY easy to miss.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder why?

    Because It's a nice phone but killed, by a lame, OS. The only way they could sell some is if someone unlocked the bootloader to run android

    1. lumpaywk

      The OS rocks Android is slow and cluncky and ios is boreing. WP7.5 isnt selling to great but hay that means when people see my phone they are still wowed and i like that. Its the bad sales people that ruin it and this whole if its not android its rubbish. I love android but its not a great OS hardly anyone that uses it has any clue about what it can do they just hear from brain dead idiots that if its not android its rubbish. WP7.5 will have its day and even if not i am happy to have something unique that beats the crap out of other phones. Reminds me of my Zune that nobody here in the uk knows cos its not sold here but it smashed ipods out the water.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        WTF?

        So both the Zune

        and the Lumia are good as hammers?

        ps- there may be an exotic gas leak in your room. I'd have it checked out...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        How did Zune smash iPods out the water? You must have missed the part about Zune being discontinued because few people bought them.

    2. Stuart 22
      Unhappy

      Farewell my lovely ...

      I too lament the Windows decision. It was an admission of defeat. Sure, going with Android would level the playing field against their competitors. But Samsung rose to the top by out engineering and outhinking HTC and is now head to head with Apple - a remarkable achievement and still charging premium prices.

      Clearly the CEO had no confidence that Nokia could outengineer Samsung. Which is deny Nokias historical mobile success when they just produced something much better than Motorola and the other kings of that time (OS didn't figure - it was almost non existent). That's the towel being thrown in. Hiding behind Microsoft's skirts won't offer any long term protection.

      To take Android, refine it in great kit and, having built success, to fork it into something they (not Google or Microsoft) control was a risky way to a great future. Instead they chose a slow journey to inevitable death.

      Farewell ...

      1. Levente Szileszky

        RE: Farewell...

        I always said Nokia should have bought WebOS - a match made in heaven, provided they fired those sorry@ss incompetent managers who let 4000-5000 devs sitting on their project 2-3 longer than planned.

        But then again, WQebOS went to HP where a glorified software sales guy , after being kicked out of his previous job, has failed to recognize the point in the mobile market and with one master announcement almost sank the ship. And this is where we are done with our full circle: it was quite similarl to Nokia's ex-MS Trojan horse beancounter-in-chief Elop who wiped out over one-third of Nokia in few days, writing down its entire IP in Symbian and linux.

        2011 was the unbelievably clueless, uber-incompetent bungler CEO year...

  4. bdam
    FAIL

    This is sooo sweet

    Hey Microsoft - hows it feel to have done to you in mobile what you did to the rest of the desktop industry? Actually that's not an accurate comparison, because they have less market share in mobile than Linux had on the desktop even when they were at their peak. And, oh dear, its only gonna get worse. At last everyone is realising people only went with Microsoft when they had no (realistic) choice. The instant they do, figures like their 0.17% market share arise.

    Still, the Android $5 extortion is doing well - it may even carry them through the coming car wreck of Windows 8.

    1. Luther Blissett

      +1 what goes around, comes around

      M$ could learn something from history. Besides Linux. think OS/.2. think BEOS. Think VirtualBox. If you want to establish an OS, you have to give it away.

      But is there a thought in Seattle (when a tree falls etc)?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        Odd....

        ...didn't think iOS was a free give away and that seems to be doing ok.

        Come to think of it, neither were most mainfram OS that ruled the roost in the 60's/70's/80's,

        Oh last time I checked the worls largest operating system (Windows) wasn't free either.

      2. Shannon Jacobs
        Holmes

        Microsoft does NOT give away the OS

        Microsoft simply removes the customer from the point of sale. Apple is now succeeding by doing a variation of the same thing, but the part that pisses me off more about Microsoft is that you often find yourself unable to buy a computer that doesn't have Microsoft Office on it. I think the last time I actually had a choice to do so and bought a piece of Microsoft software was about 10 years ago... I've used a lot of Microsoft since then, but not because I had a choice.

        Then again, Linux doesn't have any viable economic model. I had high hopes for Ubuntu and still use it a bit, but it peaked a couple of years ago and is just drifting down now. Windows Vista was an opportunity that will not come again, sadly.

        For what little it is worth, here is an alternative economic model that could be used for OSS:

        http://eco-epistemology.blogspot.com/2009/11/economics-of-small-donors-reverse.html

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    what?

    Who's Mobiles Please. Never heard of them, looks like some dodgy establisment from birmingham.

    Lumia is at the top sellers for vodafone & 3 where they actually publish their top selling phones. orange doesn't. How much difference there is between the top seller and the 4th best I don't know, but Lumia has 4.6/5 from more than 30 reviews when I last checked. That's a few happy customers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Microsoft viral marketing to the rescue

      put a positive spin on bad news from an AC account...

      For sure this post originated from Reading/Redmond or Finland?

      The only people saying good things about Lumia are those that are paid to do so.

      1. GeorgeTuk

        Man, what a cynical view of the world you have.

        Maybe some people do actually like them, have you thought about that?

        1. ratfox Silver badge
          WTF?

          Lumia top-selling phone?

          [citation needed]

        2. fishman

          Astroturfing

          It's possible, but Microsoft is well known for their astroturfing.

        3. hplasm Silver badge
          Meh

          Maybe some people do actually like them.

          Just not very many people.

    2. Avatar of They Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Marketing 101

      If a phone isn't shifting, say it is the hottest phone on your own webstie and Voila, people buy it.

      You can't believe everything that comes as advertising or marketing.

      Personally I turned away from Nokia after their constant changing of minds over the N900, linux, symbian etc. No wonder a lot of techy and knowledgeable people buy elsewhere, until Nokia know what they are doing, how will anyone trust them.

      And WP is pants on all fronts, most people and reviews are all Apple versus Android, WP doesn't really get a look in. So only natural people steer clear.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    It sounds right

    Here they (Nokia) set up a huge display/booth in the middle of the entrance of the Media World shop. Always empty. The Samsung booth, almost hidden at the far right, is always full. Seems like even the typical adolescents that fill the shop won't touch windows phone...

    1. P Saunders

      windows is their father's OS

      To the youf, windows is something their parents use. It's all about bling and status with mobiles and WP has neither.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Finlandian Blue

    For some reason this doesn't surprise me the tiniest bit. It means that the once giant and that other seen-as-a-giant together now have, er, next to no impact combined. Apparently you *can* leverage... whatever it is their respective management structures are made of. Resulting in the industry's finest failure to sway the market. Not entirely surprising since the espoonians used to define themselves as the anti-redmond. The resulting implosion sure is impressive.

    On an unrelated note, I've always disliked the blue for boys and pink for girls distinction. Turns out that back in the fifties it was pink for boys and blue for girls. Ah, how things change. Though not always for the better. Why should things be colour-coded by gender that have no inherent relation to gender?

    1. Mike Street

      Not so..

      I was alive in the 50s and I can tell you that blue & pink were the same way round then. I think it was much earlier that they swapped.

      You're right about the the two management structures though...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Apparently I misremembered that.

        "The current pink for girls and blue for boys wasn't uniform until the 1950's [in the US]."* plus a few references to advice to the contrary around WWI as pink, a paler red, being stronger than (a paler) blue. In that respect quite interesting to get, post WWII, Rosie the Riveter back to being Suzie Homemaker using admonishments to wear... pink.

        The colour coding itself appears to've been actively encouraged to foster more sales. Predictable.

        * http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=238733

  8. Paul Shirley

    last weeks pr

    Only a week since nokia tried to push it fir the people bored with iphone and android. Exactly the market sector covered by this survey!

  9. Giles Jones Gold badge

    Not long to go

    Not long to go before Microsoft buys Nokia at a bargain basement price and gets all their IP and patents.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pirate

      Of course

      We all know that's the end-game plan.

      Stick a handful of "ex" Microsoft bods in key places, make disastrous decisions to destroy the already lame Nokia, and then buy them up when the price is rock bottom..

      Like Pirates boarding a stricken ship.

      1. Levente Szileszky
        Thumb Up

        I said the same thing on day one, it's only about...

        ...one final target: to simply pick up Nokia's very effective hardware mfr'ing and distribution operations for Ballmer's ashtray change (yeah, I know, the angry bald fat beancounter fart does not smoke.)

        If in the meantime they manage to buy market share, so be it... but at the end it's all about Microkia, nothing else.

    2. Tim Walker

      Mirror-image of Google and Motorola...

      "When I am King...", no. 218: ...I will ban all software patents, anywhere, ever, with anyone continuing to try and create them, being lobbed headfirst into a den of angry hippopotami.

      I look at my N8, and think I'm going to run it until it either dies, its camera fails, or it will no longer connect to any networks or services I need (whichever is sooner). Then, I am REALLY not looking forward to finding its successor...

    3. bdam
      Boffin

      Or until Elop gets the boot, Ballmer too and everyone prays to God Nokia secretly kept ensuring Android will run on the hardware currently being wasted on WP7 so it's launch isn't too painful. Because lets face it, if The Beast did own Nokia the phones can only get worse - they've just had all this time with what's left of Nokia doing what they do best, how on earth can a software only company with 100% meddling now improve things?

      They clearly only wants the IP, and its looking more and more like this was the plan from the start.

      1. Andus McCoatover
        Windows

        Microsoft's doing a 'Sendo'.

        I've said it before.

  10. Scott 62

    yeah, just what people want, a phone that BSODs

    1. Phoenix50
      WTF?

      As a pose to the Android platform that's bloated, sluggish, fragmented to hell and of such piss-poor quality that they practically give them away?

      1. Andrew_b65
        Trollface

        Eggcorn

        I love that one - 'as a pose to' instead of 'as opposed to'.

        Classic. Cheered up my miserable day.

        1. Robert E A Harvey
          Thumb Up

          And thank you for my new fact for the day. 'Eggcorn'. Brilliant.

      2. Chris Parsons

        Even if you can't do facts, try spelling...it's 'opposed to'!!!

      3. Mark McNeill
        Trollface

        As a pose to

        So how's the voice recognition on your phone working out for you?

  11. FunkyEric
    FAIL

    Lame GUI

    Been looking to buy a new phone recently and those huge square "icons" on the Lumia really just don't do it for me. Have MS learned nothing from what their successful opposition are doing? It looks so last century it's untrue. With screens of such resolution and colour depth to have such 1 dimensional icons is just plain barmy. I never looked past that, maybe the underlying experience is good, but first impressions count big-time.

    1. Phoenix50
      Go

      @FunkyEric

      And yet on using Wp7 for the first time I found it refreshing and a good alternative to what's out there now.

      I recently borrowed a friends iPhone and was shocked at how antiquainted it looked - all those icons, all those colours, with different shapes and notifications scattered all over the place. It was all so "2007" to be honest.

      People see the tiles on adverts or in shop windows and turn away becasue they think it looks "toy-like" - but they could not be further from the truth. Live tiles are far more dynamic, can display far more information to the user at-a-glance than *anything* Apple ro Google has on their phones (not without thrid-part plugins). Add to that a very sophisticated (yet easy-to-setup) integration system for Facebook, Twitter etc and you've got a phone that made me love USING my phone again - just like the original iPhone did.

      I do genuinely believe most of the doubters would hold their hands up and credit Microsoft for what they've done, if they took the time to use it - proplery USE it.

      Such a shame.

      1. Joe Montana

        Time to properly use it...

        Consider that Karma, most windows users have never used anything else either and would probably prefer something else if they took the time to properly use it.

        I've seen plenty of people who, after using linux or mac for long enough to get accustomed to it, never want to touch windows again.

      2. Geoff Campbell
        Boffin

        @Phoenix50

        You don't actually know anything about Android, do you? It is just as capable of placing at-a-glance widgets on the home screen as WP7.

        And as regards your previous comment, I don't find it at all bloated or sluggish, and neither is fragmentation an Android problem, it has been created by HTC et al adding their own shite and locking it down.

        GJC

  12. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Who are Mobile Please?

    Well at least I've heard of them now.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bye Bye Nokia

    The MS partnership is an all-or-nothing deal for Nokkers. Seems like it isn't working but let's wait for the Q4 results in Jan. Still though, Jo Harlow is loving WP7. If it doesn't work out then that's the end of Nokia really, I doubt anyone who previously worked for them would go back to the bad management, poor practices and uncompetitive wages (unless you're in Finland and stuck for choice). Their senior management have burned many bridges.

    1. hazydave
      Alien

      Microsoft have no plan here... and they're missing this one, entirely.

      As the beneficiary of the "special relationship" with Microsoft, you'd think these things would be far better coordinated. Microsoft's done this kind of thing before... they nearly pulled it off, when it was Microsoft and Toshiba pushing HD-DVD, and that was against everyone else in CE.

      So the best Nokia could produce is a recycled N9 with candy colors and a slightly faster CPU? What the heck has Elop been doing the last year-and-a-half? Oh, yeah, firing people. So this phone is not even slightly competitive with even mid-tier phones like the iPhone 4 and all those Androids. Who is this for? No wonder that, well past a year since Windows 7 Phone shipped, the base of all Windows Phone varities is still shrinking.

      And they've really missed the boat on this. Ok, sure, Microsoft's original idea (which they played in the states, not sure about elsewhere) was essentially marketing W7P to people who didn't already use smartphones. Their assumption was typical Microsoft... people don't use smartphones because they're complicated. Nope. My 80 year old Mom mastered the iPhone 3GS in a about a day, once my sister offered to pay for it. People don't use smartphones because they don't want to spend an extra $20-$30 a month for data charges. They didn't understand this with the Microsoft Kin either... an amazingly epic failure, shut down in a couple weeks with nearly zero sales.

      What about gaming? Windows has a few fans, just as you'll find rabid W7P advocates here and there (I think they all owned Ataris in the early 90s), but most people endure Windows at best. But they L-O-V-E the X-Box. This was an obvious opportunity. It's apps that keep iPhone fans loyal, and guess what... iOS is the top mobile gaming platform... blew right past Sony and Nintendo. MS already has the Zune store, and with a bit of surgery (no more Microsoft points, actual money maybe) it could be appealing. But here's a dud of a phone as the apex of W7P.. the Lumia 800 has a much slower GPU than the iPhone 3GS. The old, dusty, free-with-contract iPhone 3GS. It's even candy colored, both phone and UI.. what kid could resist.

      Oh, wait, every one of them. Kids get iPods Touch before they even get dumb phones. They're pre-treated to want the iPhone. Some may find Android along the way, but Windows Phone? Isn't that for old people?

  14. Zippy the Pinhead
    Trollface

    What I found interesting

    What I found most interesting is that the Apple iPhone can no longer lay claim to the most widely sold smartphone model as they have attempted to claim in the past!

    1. hazydave

      Inevitable

      Apple used to sell just one model. And they sold the most smartphones of any single vendor. Now Apple sells three models, actively, and Samsung sells more units.

      Though technically, there are a bunch of slight variations all called Galaxy II. Even within one model Samsung's got more variety than Apple's own full line.

  15. MarkL

    Given that in some stores online the Lumia 800 is the best selling handset, and that some retailers are expressing very positive sales experience, I have to question this one.

    1. cloudgazer
      Holmes

      Given it matches up with the FT report indicating the Lumia failed to make the top-10 I'd question your anonymous online stores instead.

      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/822aec78-27ed-11e1-a4c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1hI8H0lR9

    2. hplasm Silver badge
      Devil

      Some stores?

      Second hand shops or Poundland?

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Jason Sweby
    FAIL

    Can't buy them if you can't find them

    I'm hardly surprised when they're just not available. The Reg ran a story yesterday about O2's website saying they don't sell them, when they've said they will. Even today, the O2 shop site still says this phone does not exist.

    Sad thing is I'm really interested in the Windows 7 Phone - but trying to buy one is not exactly easy.

    1. dansus

      How not easy?

      How is buying not easy, go online, couple of clicks and your done.

      I presume youve heard of Amazon, Expansys, Clove ect.

  17. Philip Nowlan

    Be fair the Lumnia was lauched in mid November, so when in that month did the do the survey. It has OS that is loudly pilloried by the critics and fanbois may of whom have not given it a chance. I have one and a Samsung Omnia 7. I have had the Omnia for a year. Windows Phone 7.5 is a good phone OS and worth a second look. The Lumia is a good Phone and is worth considering.

  18. NotInventedHere
    WTF?

    Huge pinch of salt...

    Or alternatively, perhaps "Mobiles Please" (whoever they are) just don't have any decent offers for Windows Phones. They're certainly not a site that I'd be buying from.

    This figure sounds like absolute tripe to me, and here a more detailed breakdown of why:

    http://wmpoweruser.com/phone-comparison-site-claims-nokia-sold-only-180-lumia-800s-in-uk-so-far-needs-to-check-their-maths/

    Nokia sold only 180 phones in the UK? Garbage. The Lumia is still listed in the top selling phones on a variety of sites, including Vodafone and Three. I think "Mobiles Please" have a hugely inflated view of their significance in the mobile space.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You might be right. Of the 700,000 Android devices activated each day 0.17% would be 1190. 180 is actually 0.0257%. A market share known in Redmond as BD - that's "Ballmers Dick": tiny and shrinking daily.

    2. Richard Plinston Silver badge
      FAIL

      > The Lumia is still listed in the top selling phones

      You are confused. Those sites are not putting the phones in the 'best' page because of the numbers sold, they are putting them there because they will make the best profit if anyone buys those.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      talking with real figures

      I am using an app which also counts the number of windows phone in the wild. The app is around number 60 most popular in the marketplace and has 180,000 users worldwide. The Nokia Lumia has gone to 7% within the last 5 weeks, has sold the same as the htc trophy sold in the last 13 months. The htc mozart is at 19% in the UK. That gives me 1010 Lumias in the UK that have installed the number 60 application. Difficult to say what's the difference between No 60 and No 1, but I don't think 60,000 Lumias sold in the uk is unrealistic. So compare this to the other article.

      1. bdam
        Pint

        60,000 in total = 8.57% of Androids daily 700k. As a percentage of a day this is 2.05 hours. So, every day at 2:03am Android has activated more handsets than WP7 has shifted all together.

  19. Ye Gads
    Thumb Down

    Yeah, Right...

    Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this.

    Currently the Lumia is:

    8th and 9th best selling phone for Vodafone

    6th best selling phone for Orange

    3rd best selling phone for 3

    That will generate more than 0.17% market share.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And i'm

      calling bullshit on your claims, and I have never seen anyone with one, nor do I know anyone buying one or even wanting one.

      Most are still too busy laughing at them...

      1. hazydave

        Nokia and the pundits actually seem to agree...

        While Nokia claimed the Lumia 800's first week was their best ever, even they lowered their estimated sales. Some pundits had estimated 2M sales before launch.. last week Forbes and one other dropped their estimates to about 500K. That can still mean a bunch of phones go out the door from specific vendors, but it's pretty weak sales. And it's not even clear if they're talking sell-though or just sales to vendors.

        Keep in mind... Android's doing 700K per day these days. My new Samsung Galaxy Nexus was one of those, last week. This is the kind of smartphone you need for a top-of-the-line phone in the USA: 1280x720 SAMOLED screen (ok, most have qHD like the iPhone 4/4S, a few are even still successful at 800x600, like the SII), dual core CPU, fast GPU, 4G radio (unless you're Apple). Even mid-tier phones support 4G, probably still dual core, maybe a more moderate screen.

        And sure, not everyone's a techie. But those who are not often ask the techies. Or just buy Apple. They can't really be counting on low-information buyers who have good feelings for Microsoft. Or.. hmmm... maybe that's precisely the market, and the problem.

        They may not be entirely ignoring the issue. I can't imagine the Lumia 800 going anywhere in the USA for more than many $100 on-contract. Nokia is rumored to be readying the Lumia 900 for February introduction here. Apparently very much the same: 1.4GHz single-core CPU, weak GPU, only 512MB DRAM, but possibly with LTE/4G and a 4.3" OLED screen (same low resolution, though). Specs could change, and you can find five or six better options at any Verizon store today, unless you find you must have Windows 7 Phone at all costs. But definitely more competitive... the iPhone 4S is the only leading smartphone with less than 4" or so screen.

      2. Ye Gads
        FAIL

        Go to the websites and have a look yourself. I took those positions off of Vodafone, Orange and 3 yesterday.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          Ermm you don't REALLY believe those charts do you?

          It's a stupid way of selling the phones they want to sell.

          They want to sell Lumia to dump stock, so raise it in the charts....

          Come on wake up...

          Ever walked into Game/Gamestation/HMV, all their charts are the same, they games up the list are those they have lots of stock of, either because it's genuinely popular (like the Galaxy S2), or because it's crap and they have craploads of stock to shift (like the Lumia).

      3. Asher Pat
        Thumb Down

        Let's protect the domination of our preciOS!

        If you have not seen anyone with Nokia Lumia, then you must be right!

        Or perhaps the buyers of Nokia are not iiiiiiiiiP tossers/poseurs? Perhaps they dont have the messianic zeal of Applistas?

        And finally, how can "most" be "too busy laughing at them" if they have "never seen anyone with one"

  20. Mark Jan

    N9

    Why not sell the N9 in markets other than Timbuktu and the far side of the moon and let's see how a "proper" Nokia smartphone sells!

    (I have the white N9 on order)

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Love my N9 as well, Elop's decision not to sell it in major markets just looks crazier every day

    2. Ramiro
      Pint

      N9 being sold in Brazil too.

      and Nokia is heavily promoting it, would you believe that. I went for a Sony Xperia Pro, because of the real keyboard and because the N9 was about 50% more expensive than it!

      It seems to be their top of the range phone here.

      It doesn't seem like they are selling WP7 devices.

      It would be really, really funny, but it will never happen of course, if the N9 outsold the Lumia in a developed market.

  21. bdam
    Go

    Serious question

    Can these be reflashed with Android? Look what happened to the similarly unloved HP touchpad once news it had been ported over broke...

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Ditto, I think they look nice.

  22. Adam Trickett
    Linux

    Seen an ad but not a phone

    In Boringstoke there were huge banners in "Festival Place" with Nokia Lumina on them. If it wasn't for the names Nokia and Microsoft on the advert I wouldn't have known it was for a phone - it just looked like a large poster with coloured blocks on them with logos in the middle of the blocks.

    Of the people at work with smart phones they are mostly Android and the rich people have Apples. I don't know anyone with a Windows phone of any kind or a Blackberry (except the ones given by corporate).

    I've only ever seen one Windows phone which was given to Uni students to develop on (they hate it) and compared with the near identical Android HTC I can say that the new Windows phone platform was terrible. It is possible that the Nokia is better but I've never seen one to comment - there aren't any in the four mobile phone shops I walk past every day.

  23. Wang N Staines

    3GS + 4 + 4S > GSII ... hahahaaa.

  24. Mike Richards Silver badge

    US?

    Has the Lumia even launched in the US yet?

    It's a shame if it fails, the phone is a nice piece of kit and the OS is excellent. Sadly Microsoft's bad smell has probably done for it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Microsoft need the support now of the very people its just spent the past 20 years shafting. There literally are too many who *actively* want it to fail, not just passively sit by and lets things roll out naturally. Such individuals will not touch their kit even if it is half decent, hell, they won't even take the time to look at it. Is this a shame? No. This is Microsoft - it's only if it happened to some other company you'd feel sorry for them. My prediction: disasterous sales Q4/11 + Q1/12 = Ballmer out before next summer. Get working on plan B, Nokia.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        "Is this a shame? No. THIS IS MICROSOFT!" (kicks down well)

        Ok, I'm out now looking for a girlfriend.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have one via work

    for app development, and WP7 seems quite pleasant. Much more slick than Androids I've used (although admittedly not used an Android later than 2.3). Not a fan of the square corners of the Lumia, but it seems a reasonable phone if you can get one at a good price.

    1. OrsonX
      Headmaster

      more slick

      that'll be slicker

  26. calumg

    Windows is a tarnished brand

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - nobody wants to buy a "Windows" phone. Call it anything else and they'll sell like hot-cakes. Microsoft is clearly confused about the value of its brand.

    1. ShelLuser
      Windows

      @Calumg

      +1 from me.

      IMO its even worse than that though; what if you /do/ want a "Windows phone" in order to extend your "Windows experience"? For example; I'm quite happy with Windows 7 & Office 2010 so I wouldn't oppose the idea of a "Windows phone" immediately up front.

      Well, for those kind of people its going to s*ck even worse. For example; doing something as simple as accessing a Windows share and copying some files to the phone. Either using bluetooth, wifi or the old fashioned USB cable. Cannot be done with this critter, my 2 year old Samsung Jet though has no problems with it.

      Say you have an address book in Outlook and you want to copy / export this to your phone. Not going to happen unless you first put all your contacts online (Hotmail) after which you can download them to your phone again. Most people know better to put privacy sensitive data online, but with a "Windows Phone" you simply have no choice if you want to exchange information from your Windows PC.

      As such; if only it /were/ a Windows phone, IMO it doesn't even meet that simple expectation.

    2. Charles Manning

      re: Windows is a tarnished brand

      Absolutely correct that Windows is a broken brand.

      How well would Xbox sell if it was called WinGame?

      But it isn't clear that WinPho is any use as a product. Call it Xphone and they won't come running.

      Braning isn't enough It didn't work for Kin or Zune.

  27. Daniel Bower

    If only people would take it seriously...

    I actually have a Nokia 800 and honestly, its the best phone I've ever had. I've had an N8, various android devices although by my own admission have a huge and probably somewhat baseless hatred of Apple (although my mum has every Apple device going so I have used an iPhone quite extensively).

    WinPho 7.5 is a joy to use - slick, fast, intuitive and the People hub is genius. I've shown it to all my friends who have either some flavour of HTC or Samsung android device or an iPhone and they're all really impressed.

    OK, if you like customising screen layouts etc you're out of luck but I don't. I just want a phone that works and works well and the 800 does just that.

    Trouble is, I don't think anyone is going to take it seriously unless there's a very slick and prolonged advertising campaign to raise awareness...

    1. bdam
      FAIL

      From what I've seen,

      microsofts big innovation

      was to cut off words half

      way across the screen

      rather than resize or lay

      them out properly like

      other phones do.

      Here's that paragraph again especially for WP7 fans:

      From wha

      microsoft

      was to cu

      way acros

      rather tha

      them out

      other pho

      1. zerocred

        That is jus

        brillia

        I also hat

        the stupi

        black stri

        up the righ

        side. Make

        the whole

        screen lob

        sided.

        Please Nokia skunkworks - have an Android or something else for a plan B. And have /slightly/ rounded corners so not to infring apples patent/design/copyright/trademark on curves that are non straight..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      LOL

      More Microsoft astroturfing, pretending there is a real userbase of satisified owners...

      Incredibly, there is even a fake website called wmpoweruser or something, that's entirely fictional viral marketing from Microsoft pretending there is a grassroots userbase of happy WP7 owners...

      Of course Microsoft pulled this same stunt with the Xbox, and got away with it, lets hope the internet citizens are slightly more clued up this time....

      1. david bates

        I had to

        read that 3 times until I got it into my head it was Windows Phone and not Word Perfect...

  28. Arctic fox
    Headmaster

    The information currently available does seem rather conflicting.

    On the one hand we have major carriers claiming that the Lumia 800 is doing well (not just in the UK but in Holland, France and Germany) and on the other we have this survey which says the opposite. I took a look just now at Amazon in their sim free mobile phone category and chose to sort under bestsellers. Ignoring all the feature phones and all the smartphones *significantly* under £400 we arrive at the following top ten. I do not get the impression that the Lumia is doing quite as badly as this survey would suggest although it is clearly not "setting the world alight". Other than that this little list does appear to confirm that Sammy has a great deal to smile about!

    1. Samsung I9100 Galaxy S II 16 GB (Black)

    2. Galaxy Nexus 16GB

    3. Samsung I9100 Galaxy S II 16 GB (White)

    4. BlackBerry Bold 9900

    5. Apple iPhone 4S 16GB Black

    6. HTC Sensation XE

    7. APPLE iPhone 4 16 GB

    8. Nokia Lumia 800 (Black)

    9. Motorola RAZR

    10.Apple iPhone 4 16GB Black Factory Unlocked

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestsellers-Electronics-Mobile-Phones-Smartphones/zgbs/electronics/356496011/ref=zg_bs_nav_ce_3_1340509031#3

    1. Robert E A Harvey

      crikey. Razr coming up fast there.

      1. Arctic fox
        Thumb Up

        RE: "crikey. Razr coming up fast there"

        It is isn't it? Mind you I am not exactly surprised it does appear to be very fine kit and has attracted some very favourable reviews on a number of serious web-sites including, natch, Reghardware. The one that does surprise me a bit given the problems that RIM has had lately is their highest end offering at number 4. I'm not dissing the phone you understand it is just that they have been in some fairly heavy weather in recent times and that does not exactly help when trying to sell a device in that price segment! As far as the Lumia goes this list would seem to suggest that it is doing all right albeit not near well enough yet to give Nokia any reason to feel that they are yet out of the woods.

  29. Mikel
    Thumb Up

    No Santa Rally for WP7

    Nor Nokia either. I guess that's that.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will WP7 sell more than Kin?

    It's not looking like it so far.

  31. twilkins

    @Arctic Fox, in the white hot world of amazon mobile phone sales, things change so rapidly if you blink you might miss them. Now, at 08:43 on 23rd Dec the top sellers are:

    1. Samsung Galaxy S2 (Black)

    2. HTC Wildfire S (Black)

    3. Big button easy phone

    4. Big button easy phone (new design)

    5. Samsung B2100

    6. Nokia 1616 Black

    7. Samsung Galaxy Ace

    8. Samsung Galaxy S2 (White)

    9. Samsung Galaxy Nexus

    10. Blackberry Curve

    Still, I'll bet Nokia are pleased with those highly profitable 1616 sales (selling for £22 each). I know I'm glad I offloaded my Nokia shares after first using an N97!

    1. Arctic fox

      @Twilkins: I really think old chap that you should have read my post more carefully.

      I said:

      "Ignoring all the feature phones and all the smartphones *significantly* under £400 we arrive at the following top ten."

      I made it quite clear that I had done that in order to get a comparison between phones in the *upper price segment* which is where the Lumia 800 is - albeit at the lower end of that segment. Comparing like with like in the financial sense you understand. That was the point of my list with regard to those phones for which punters are willing to plonk roughly £400 or more on the table for their newest shiny.

      1. twilkins
        FAIL

        "Ignoring all the feature phones and all the smartphones *significantly* under £400 we arrive at the following top ten."

        Still no Lumia... in the highly contrived, top 10 smartphones *not "significantly* under £400 (I've eliminated anything not over £300, for your viewing pleasure):

        1. Samsung Galaxy S2 (Black)

        2. Samsung Galaxy S2 (White)

        3. Samsung Galaxy Nexus

        4. Blackberry Bold

        5. HTC Sensation

        6. Apple iPhone 4S 16Gb

        7. Apple iPhone 4 16Gb

        8. Sony Ericsson Experia Arc S

        9. HTC Sensation XE

        10. Samsung Galaxy Note

        Interesting to note that many of those handsets are priced higher than the Lumia, so people are not choosing based on price alone. There are also many Android phones (and some iPhones) that fall under the £300 mark.

        1. Paul Shirley

          Selecting just by tprice is blatant fiddling the figures. At a stroke it rules out devices with comparable hardware just because they're better value. The lumia is far from

          High end hardware with premium street pricing.

          Filter by comparable hardware and it will fall much further down the popularity list. Even this fiddled filtering shows it only limping into the premium niche, while every other producier targets the whole budget to premium range getting sales at all levels.

  32. Andy 70

    I have one. and i like it.

    but hey, haters gonna hate.

  33. Phoenix50
    Devil

    So many Microsoft haters in this discussion.

    I'm sure you're all sitting there loving every minute of it - every Microsoft "fail" get you just that little bit more excited.

    They deserve a *lot* of criticism for their business practices over the years. But I don't think the criticism of WP7 is deserving. People say they've received derision from critics and pundits alike - but they haven't. Most critics agree that it's a good effort on their part - you only have to scour the internet to realise that.

    And yes, before someone finds a scathing review, I'm aware that you can't please everyone.

    But I find it fascinating watching the tech world step away from the shadow of Microsoft and into the now ubiquitous shadows of Apple and Google.

    How are they different? How are their busines practices *any* different from the Microsoft of old? Sure they dress differently, but it's the same beast underneath those clothes - they are company's who are out to profit from you, just like all the others.

    It's all swings and roundabouts - twenty years from now (maybe longer?) somone else will have come along, and Google and Apple will begin to fade with the setting sun. They'll be delcared "over", "finished", "yesterday's tech companies" - it's not a possiblity, it's inevitable. That's just life, that's technology.

    So my friends, in this season of goodwill to all, be you a "Fandroid" or an "iTard" enjoy your moment in the sun - for it won't last forever.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why, you make them sound almost reasonable. it's just like the little detail of poor little picked-on Microsoft extorting $5 per handset from Android, which is largely causing this utter revulsion, has all been forgotten.

      1. Ilgaz

        Blame google

        And which genius came up with the idea of using Microsoft fat file system on a Linux os?

    2. Arctic fox
      Thumb Up

      @Phoenix50: Too much like common sense..........

      ...............those it applies to will not listen to a word - unfortunately.

    3. ShelLuser
      Happy

      @Phoenix

      I don't think its MS bashing / hating here perse, simply people who share their dislike of this phone. And lets be honest; right from the launch date the WM7 OS showed /many/ aspects in which it simply lacked heavily.

      Even the simple things; what is more common than to put an mp3 onto your phone and use that as a ringtone? WM7 wasn't capable of doing that, only after an OS upgrade. Or what about being able to transfer files to and from your Windows PC? WM6 has an explorer which was capable to access remote Window shares; ideal on a device which supported wifi. But WM7? No more. Say I want to exchange Outlook contact information with my phone; I can't unless I put said information online first. Only then can I download it to my phone.

      The latter example is an epic failure IMO. Heck; its what made Java ME so inaccessible on phones; even if you had a midlet worked out you still needed to download it through the phone's browser because in many cases you could not install midlets while connecting the phone using an USB cable. Thus making "phone development" a lot harder than it should have been. Sun learned this lesson; why didn't MS pick up on this? No; if you develop for your Windows Phone you'll face the exact same limitations.

      So IMO its not only about 'hating' or ''disliking Microsoft'. Most people simply recognize a lot of limitations and comment on those.

      1. admiraljkb
        Meh

        @ShelLuser @Phoenix....

        I have to agree. I'm not an MS hater either. I used Winmobe for quite a while prior to switching to Android. Truthfully the only reason I switched was due to it getting stagnant, and the everytime the Carriers got ahold of it, the kept tweaking on it til it didn't work. Soooo, go over to XDA, get decent Winmobe firmware that has been stripped down and actually works, and voila. WM6 wasn't *actually* that sucky. Android is the successor of it though, and is even more easily tweaked on than WM6 for the "hobbyist" set.

        WM7 looks like MS tossed out both the good and the bad parts of WM6, and are left with a phone that is no longer agreeable to the power user. There is already a non-power user/simplistic phone on the market, and it is called iPhone. WM7 can't compete with the Android phones on the high end because it isn't flexible enough, and it can't compete with the "simple" market because they've already got iPhones... Is it a *bad* phone? The reviews say it is *ok*, and I'll believe them. Looking over one of them briefly myself, it seems ok, not great. Nothing to really stand out enough though, other than a bunch of tiles on the UI which I really didn't like.

        As a former WM6 power user, I'd like to see a new version of WM6 which has been modernized under the hood with some light UI tweaks to bring it inline with capacitance touch, and I miss the handwriting recognition. It was so nice to be able to take quick notes by just writing them down. No stupid tiny keyboards (virtual or physical), no swyping, just write them down. THAT is the killer feature that I want from Winmobe which would get me back into the WM camp. Nowadays, I've got a 4.5" Galaxy SII which rocks in almost every way(especially a big legible screen), except I have to break out the laptop, or pen and paper when I want to take notes...

    4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Cry for Microsoft!

      Because the evil that is them hides inside everyone - EVERYONE I SAY!!

      Monopol Capitalists will always try to profit from you, by RUTHLESSLY SELLING YOU PHONES YOU LIKE! Are you prepared to recant your harsh statements against the Beast Of Redmond and its nether products as you look upon the new trap into which you have fallen unawares?

      "I don't think the criticism of WP7 is deserving."

      Indeed, Word Perfect 7 was a pretty good program.

      1. admiraljkb
        Coat

        @Monsters

        Strolling through memory lane. Wordperfect7.. ahhhhh That *was* a good program, with all the crashes fixed (I'd had) from previous WP efforts on Windows. I've got that and a CD for WP Suite 8 as well. It was far too late of course. Crappy Windows versions of WP 5.1 and 6.0 had long since sealed WP's fate.

        I keep typing WM7 instead of WP7 for the same reason. WP == WordPerfect. MS Marketing should really research this stuff before giving their product the initials of a failed competitor, even if it was 20 years ago. In this case it was a failed competitor that also missed a market transition and whose product got nearly wiped off the planet as a result. Personally I think it was a freudian slip on MS's part. :) "WP" missed the DOS to Windows market transition in 1990-1992, and now the new "WP" missed the easy to use/big screen smartphone transition that started in 2007-2008.

    5. Jim in Hayward
      FAIL

      An earlier poster got it right

      I don't buy Microsoft products. Ever. Period. They deserve a *lot* of criticism for their business practices over the years and also deserve to not make a single dime anymore. I even didn't buy a Ford vehicle this year because Microsoft warez was used for the audio/bluetooth stuff.

      Microsoft made their bed. No they can lay in it and sleep the sleep of death.

    6. Levente Szileszky
      WTF?

      What a thinly veiled load of MS PR BS

      Seriously...

      "How are they different? How are their busines practices *any* different from the Microsoft of old? Sure they dress differently, but it's the same beast underneath those clothes - they are company's who are out to profit from you, just like all the others."

      PLEAHHHSE. Your rather pathetic attempt to paint it as if we are against companies making profit is literally insulting - do you think anyone buys your stupid PR BS?

      And in case you are indeed mentally challenged here's a hint: no, Google is absolutely NOT like Microsoft, old or new. And the difference is exactly what everybody says here: the shady, illegal business practices, the utter lack of innovation (forget inventing) and the stupid, dumb, Ballmer-like bureaucratic approach.

      Google is nothing like that; not perfect but far from this shady, lousy behemoth, run buy disgusting office fatties like MS.

  34. KnucklesTheDog
    WTF?

    Figures

    A small point, but everyone always asserts that there is only one iPhone and then lumps together the 4S, 4 and 3GS sales figures.

    Not that it appears on that list, but people never lump together the Galaxy S and S II which is exactly the same in principle.

    With HTC it's even more complicated as they don't simply increment the number on any product for each successive phone (always), but you could if you wanted consider the Sensation as the same product line as the Desire for example, both at being the HTC flagship Android device at the time of release.

    1. admiraljkb

      iPhone "stealth" fragmentation, was Figures

      Yeah, the iPhone sales need broken out for an easy/accurate picture of the true competitive landscape. Lets take the top Samsung phone as an example. Galaxy SII's have the white and black case variants with 4 carriers in the US. That is basically 8 versions of the same phone being counted separately. The iPhones 4S has 3 variants with US carriers, but they are all lumped together, and then lumped together again with the 4 which has 2 variants, and the 3GS which only has one(?) variant. The way Apple reports its sales makes it look *MUCH* better than it would otherwise.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    It's not a bad looking phone...

    ...and Windows 7 Phone has some interesting and different approaches, but Nokia's problem is that right now, people looking to buy this sort of phone have already made their Q4/Holiday decision: wait for next year's wave of new models, buy one of the many fine Android phones, or buy an iPhone.

    That decision carries at least six months of purchasing inertia, maybe more in this economic climate, so Nokia has to really come up with something compelling to have any hope of returning to relevancy, and the Lumia, nice though it is, doesn't cut it.

    Maybe their next phone will.

  36. Ted Treen
    Trollface

    I still believe...

    ...that 98.79% of statistics are made up on the spot...

    1. BorkedAgain

      Believe what you like.

      It's 78%.

      1. Ted Treen
        Megaphone

        84.85%

        believe my figure's right...

  37. Nya
    WTF?

    Phone Shops

    Personally think MS, and through them Nokia's big problem is the telco shops. When the Lumia came out (and even this week) decided I wanted a play with it, if only to get an opinion on the thing. But no high street phone shops have it, or any WinMo (I won't call it anything else, it's still WinMo) devices at all. They just don't stock them. So is it any wonder that you go into a shop and get a barrage of Android, RIM and even Apple stuff, but even in the dark dusty corner there isn't any sign of a Lumia.

    Think MS and Nokia in this case, has more a staff perception and store willingness to stock, to over come as well as normal marketing if it is to get any market share.

  38. JDX Gold badge

    Found one!

    My Phones 4U had a couple, but they were simply placed in the lineup alongside the various Android phones... no splashy "look at Windows Phone" posters for brand awareness.

    I got the impression MS would practically be paying people to stand outside the shops pushing the Lumia in peoples' faces to get awreness up!

    1. foo_bar_baz

      Strange

      All the other stores are pushing them because they want to dump their poorly selling stock...

      ...if you are to believe the posts above.

      Which is it? Oh, it's just a nerdy forum hate frenzy. I get it now.

  39. divx
    Alert

    Try them all

    Personal experience and views:

    The iPhone is too expensive and i don't have any other apple products. Everyone and their dog has one now, so its also a little boring.

    The Android OS (I've tried S2 and HTC HD) is nice, i just find that there's too many ways of doing one thing. To me, the whole "feel" just seems a little fragmented.

    Playing around with Lumia WP7.5 was a breath of fresh air. Simplistic, integrated and well priced. I have a Windows running on my laptop so it feels like the right choice.

    Now that Nokia are selling WP people will buy them. More people will see the WP OS and think "that looks nice" (just as they did with iOS and Android) and it will become popular - watch this space.

    (So many haters here who haven't had a good look at the available options)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Signed up just to say that, hey?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Its getting just like Slashdot round here

        There's a well-known pattern on Slashdot where any article critical of Microsoft is immediately, and I mean first-post-get-in-there-you-F5-keyboard-warrier, responded to with a generic few paragraphs of cut-n-pasted pro-Microsoft blurb. Its obvious because it always gets in early and doesn't really address the story. Why, its almost as if Microsoft have put aside some of their immense marketing budget for an army of paid shills to constantly monitor all the key influential sites this way.

      2. divx
        WTF?

        Yeah, i did.

        Been a long reader of the reg. I felt like i should say something about the story.

        Nice to see you have a hidden identity and in no way contributed to the story.

        Don't understand why so many people are hating?

        1. Hardcastle the ancient
          Stop

          @Divx

          No, I have a name. I have no idea why that posted as an AC. Technology, I expect.

          I have a deep distrust of Microsoft because they have had so much of my money under false pretences already. Three earlier windows phones (HP) among them. Broken promises about being able to upgrade the OS, regular hang ups and lost data, and a synchronising battle with Microsoft's own Outlook, that never quite worked.

          I am sick and tired of being told on the desktop 'the next version won't do that', and being charged ever more for the next version. Which of course, still does that. I despair of an organisation where you can't even report a bug without paying for a maintainence contract, a contract that gets you no maintainence at all.

          In GPL software I can report bugs, see other people's reports, and follow the progress (or lack of it). In MS land all I can do is wait, give them more money, and hope that bugs are now fixed. I can't even find out what the new version does without buying it.

          I loathe the way they blackmail hardware vendors so I cannot buy a machine without their nasty infecting OS. I despise the way they are taking licence fees on android phones for unspecified and secret patent infringement. I really, really, don't like the way they have bought up and corrupted or shut down a steady stream of innovative small companies. And I really really dislike the arrogance of things like WGA or having to re-validate XP because I have replaced a faulty CD drive.

          And I deeply resent the time and money I have invested, over and over agin, in new API, languages, and tools only to have the legs kicked out from beneath me over and over again.

          Hatred is earned, like respect. By their works shall ye know them.

      3. foo_bar_baz
        Mushroom

        LOL

        Just look at "Bob Vistakin" who's signed up to reply *5 times* - so far - in this thread. Astroturfers only in Microsoft payroll?

        1. Robert E A Harvey

          Astroturfers

          I wonder if the astroturfers ever report back to M$ what the rest of us are saying?

  40. PaulR79
    FAIL

    Counting iPhone 3GS too?

    If you're going to throw in silly things like a two year old Apple handset then we can safely throw in all varieties of the original Samsung Galaxy S (Captivate etc in he USA) and the newer Galaxy Nexus. Even ignoring this I've never heard of this company and a sample size of 5,000 is tiny. This is almost as bad as some survey on TechRadar that was run on a few thousand people and ended up claiming 24% of the world now uses NFC. Pointless findings from an insignificant company that has far too much time on its hands.

  41. Paul Shirley

    epic astroturfing

    ...but doing it on the Reg site is a complete waste of the Microsoft PR slushfund ;)

  42. tommy060289
    Happy

    Ive played and really like the lumia and WP7

    Unfortunately, I'm likely to continue only 'liking' it as I walk into an Apple store late next year to purchase an iPhone 5.

    I doesn't really give me much reason to switch and the iPhones ability to simply plug in and my new phone will be updated with all the details from my 3GS means it really isn't worth the hassle of switching to a different eco-system

  43. OrsonX
    Flame

    Nokia used to be good...

    Aaah the N95, beloved of so many....

    If you listed every feature & then wrote FAIL next to each feature then that would be 100% accurate.

    Nokia were already failing then, they continued to fail with a glacially slow response to the original iPhone (3 years was it?). And now with the Lumia their superb build quality is again apparent, with the SIM card door bending for everyone who cares to open the door...., i.e., everyone.

    And, in their final act of FAILness, in the week MS buy Skype they release a phone w/o a front facing camera.

    I am pleased they are failing for the POS they sold me that was the N95 (and yes I did get it replaced..., and replaced....).

  44. jim 45

    what Phoenix50 said

    A year ago I walked into a Microsoft store expecting to fiddle with a Windows 7 phone for 2 minutes and walk out laughing at it. Instead I tried it for 5 minutes and walked out the door owning it. WP7 is a clean, unified, intuitive, uncluttered and very modern looking platform. My wife likes it too, and when her contract is up she's ditching Android and getting WP7.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Me too...

      I never thought I'd own an MS phone until I actually tried one. I wanted to replace my old Nokia xpress music 5800 having been a long time Nokia user and thought I'd give everything on the market a fair go. For me the HTC Trophy stood out, I realise it's not for everyone, but some of the rabid anti-anything-MS posts here are pretty tedious and clearly from people who have never used anything except their favoured smartphone os.

  45. Nick L
    Thumb Up

    I'm posting from mine

    I've had my Lumia (a word not in the phone's dictionary!) for 3 weeks now. It has replaced my original iPhone.

    Good points? The os is great. Really. The hub approach is really very smart, and the level of integration of social stuff throughout the phone is great. So far everyone who has seen and played with my phone has been impressed, particularly with people hub, pictures, grouping etc

    But not enough to want one instead of an iPhone 4s...

    The phone never feels less than responsive. It zips

    The soft keyboard is good: better than iPhone. This post was typed on the Lumia...

    The hardware is good too. Mostly.

    Bad points

    no vpn. Inexcusable for the demographic aimed at.

    Battery... Charge every day.

    That flap covering the micro usb port is not long for this world

    camera white balance is, bluntly, exceptionally poor

    Quality of pictures is only just acceptable

    It's a great bit of kit that I am evangelising, but it needs some polishing.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Pint

      I've had my L

      original iPh

      Good point

      integration

      with my ph

      etc etc

      Sometimes, its just too easy to take this piss when your'e dealing with m$

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bestseller in XYZ country?

    All those stats come from wmpoweruser.com (or whatever) and are based on going to a carrier's web site and sorting phones by "bestselling"--problem is that I assume the *web sites* are only counting *web sales*. Probably not a representative sample, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of stores chose to not stock the Lumia which means people who want to buy it will disproportionately order it from the web, thus artificially increasing its "bestselling" rank.

    Agreed that MSFT seems to be doing a lot of astroturfing here. This is the 3rd story about the Lumia I've seen this week on different web sites yet the comments sections are always full of links back to these bogus wmpoweruser statistics.

    Well, good luck with that. It's going to look pretty silly in a few months when real (bad) sales figures come out. But I suppose this misinformation campaign is the only option they have left to try to drum up support for the OS before it becomes common knowledge that hardly anybody is adopting it.

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mobiles Who?

    I've never heard of Mobiles Please before, and 5,300 sold handsets doesn't seem to be a significant number in the grand scale of things either. I tend to doubt that the 0.17% share recorded by that source (or 9 units in other words) tells much about the actual market share and potential the Lumia may or may not have.

    Admittedly it doesn't look good, but I'd question the source here. They sold a rather small number of handsets across the board, only target consumers, and probably only those who order online.

    This shouldn't really be used as an indication as to whether or not Lumia may sell well. Certainly the source isn't strong enough to make it a news item here.

  48. Mikel
    FAIL

    Microsoft hate has a purpose

    As humans we crave progress.

    As a monopolist Microsoft is well proven to prevent progress. They're not at all ashamed of it - they're quite proud. With their patent suits, their killing of competing software vendors, their brutal business deals like Sendo and Nokia, their total dominance of PC vendors they prove it anew every week. They're quite fine with it. It's not enough for them to win: everybody else has to lose also.

    We're not OK with that. And we're not ever going to be.

    And the astroturfing thing has to stop too. That's not OK either. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/19/nokia-microsoft-lumia-comments

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Pint

      +1 No-one will touch this phone unless they are forced to

      They have had their moment. There will be no return to the bloated desktop OS they dominated now - its either web-based via browsers, tablets or smartphones from now on, and they are absolutely nowhere in those markets. Just need a way to stop them leeching $5 per handset from the good guys somehow and then they're toast - reduced to merely skinning Google's search engine and calling it their own, for example,but for everything they put out:: http://tinyurl.com/46hlnq7

  49. This post has been deleted by its author

  50. Bob Vistakin
    FAIL

    Merry Christmas Microsoft!

    And lets hope 2012 brings you all you richly deserve.

  51. Antoine Dubuc
    Trollface

    Medieval Peasants

    To the stake! To the stake!

    I just love to see people who are so enamored with their critical thinking skills at work go medieval and act like wild peasants from the Dark Ages. What a thin veneer civilization really is!

    1. Bob Vistakin
      FAIL

      Appropriate, since this app-less, user-less primitive fail of a phone can't even multitask properly which in mobile terms puts it firmly in the dark ages indeed.

  52. Dana W
    FAIL

    Nice we can agree on something.

    Nice we can agree on something. iPhone Fanboi, or FanDroid, who would actually WANT this Windows thing?

  53. admiraljkb
    FAIL

    Nokia? Didn't they disappear?

    Well, in the US market, Nokia completely disappeared and is no longer a recognizable brand name. Widespread Attention Deficit Disorder has a tendency to do that.... The people that do remember them, only remember they rapidly exited their previous market, and could leave me in a lurch if I buy one of their devices and they suddenly change direction again. It will be a long slow slog in order to recover from that. It is hard to establish a new brand in an already crowded US market.

    Not that it matters now as it is two years too late, but Nokia's only way to have survived would have been to have continued it's (then new) Android program (replacing Symbian) to stay on the shelves and in the public consciousness, and then do the Windows Mobile program as well (starting with Mango) in order to have multiple suppliers. You typically don't want to be tied to just one supplier on anything in business. I agree with Barry. It looks like Elop intentionally tanked Nokia. Not sure if MS wanted to buy it, but somebody will, and soon. At this point sadly, Nokia is valuable for patents only. Whoever buys it will scrap the company and keep the patents... *sigh*

    1. Robert E A Harvey

      Only one buyer

      Elop will balance the dismal performance and share price so that no-one else can splurge on the corpse of Nokia. Only M$ and Apple are likely to have the cash, and I don't think apple shareholders will be keen on buying an M$ house, and even if they think of it, Elop will be there to recommend acceptance to the Nokia board and shareholders.

      1. admiraljkb

        Maybe more than one if the price is right...

        I guess I can't figure out the reasoning to tank it other than grabbing patents. It is pretty obvious Elop did just that, but other than picking up patents on the cheap, why kill Nokia? Prior to 2010 it was a well respected premium phone brand that was worth something.

  54. Daniel Bower

    Downvoting

    Interesting how anyone who has actually used WinPho 7.5 and then goes on to say its actually very good (eg. myself and divx) get downvoted yet those who M$ bash, many of whom seem never seem to have used it but still say its M$ band therefore must be crap get a ton of upvotes...

    1. Dana W
      Meh

      Sauce for the goose, ect......

      Well, now you know how it feels to be treated like a Mac user. Deal with it.

    2. divx
      Unhappy

      Wake up

      Yeah tell me about it.

      There are so many opinions on this about the companies, not the Nokia Lumia 800 as a product. Sure the iPhone is better, but its too expensive (for me). So looking at the next choice is Android (which people are defending to the death) and again, its very nice. Just a little too fragmented for me. To me, the Nokia is well priced, Good contracts, different, rugged and does everything i need quickly.

      As a side note, people are talking about Microsoft being this evil company (which they are!) but so are the other major players out there - wake up.

      Apple - They wont let you develop apps without buying an Apple mac, they also take a good chunk out of the profits from the dictatorship like App store - Very peace and loving.

      Android (Google) - Completely ripped of somebody else's OS (iOS) and added nothing revolutionary at all. Just copied, made it cheap and sold.

      All three are evil, but they sure do good business.

    3. foo_bar_baz

      Astroturfing sockpuppets + nerdy hate frenzy

      Check the posting records of accounts posting actively in this thread:

      admiraljkb

      Bob Vistakin

      For the record I have an Android phone, would have got an N9 if it weren't so expensive. Could have been an Apple or WinPho just as well. It's just a phone.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @downvoting

      because the point is, no one wants it enough to find out what it's like. You're going to be an elite minority for a while

    5. Bob Vistakin
      WTF?

      How about its from an extortionist who long ago gave up trying to compete fairly so steals $5 from each handset of those that do?

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tedious ill informed nonsense

    I had an Android phone and was tired lack of updates and the fragmentation.

    I wanted a new phone, walked into a phone shop and said 'I want an Iphone or a Nokia, show me both please'.

    I waked out with a Nokia 800 and it is the best phone I've had. Super slick and simple to use, great call quality, looks fantastic and the more I use it the more I appreciate the UI. Lots of really nice touches to the animations etc

    The kicker for me was the huge price difference on contract - iPhone would have cost me 360 quid more over the 24 month contract.

    No, I'm not an M$ hack, no I don't have an agenda, but I do have a very nice phone that is a constant joy to use and it's frankly tedious that so many people want to slate it without using it.

    Happy Christmas!

    1. the-it-slayer
      FAIL

      Only one?

      You must be the only one who's happy out a very small bunch of users. Maybe people are expecting too much and Nokia does best of making simple/usable phones. My mums XpressMusic 5800 (what makes it so xpress without dying every 6 months!?) is just the most nonsensical and logic-less phone in the world.Have to go through a maze of menus just to change the ring-tone.

      Again though, I did have a play with one of these in the middle of Stratford City Westfields. Why are Nokia sticking a demo desk in a crammed walkway and not hire a shop premises temporarily in a clean environment to sell it? Anyway; to me, I saw nothing exciting with the Lumia 800. It's sturdy and looks great. The OS just doesn't look right like the old Symbian/Nokia combos. I don't get the M$ "off-screen" mumbo-jumbo.

      Even the mobile phone shops aren't even promoting this flying pig in Nokia's armour. Nokia will be sold off to M$ cheaply for the patents knowing Google/Apple are at war currently.

      Shame really that a telecoms mobile super power has failed to wake-up to the technology coffee of touchscreen phones and smooth UI.

      1. Bob Vistakin
        Mushroom

        Given Microsofts track record will they get an easy ride when they do their familiar Sendo routine to Nokia? I mean, the monopolies people will as usual see right through their evil plot, but will they as usual wave it through or will there for once be any real opposition? In Europe, they are currently whining about Google and Motorola - clearly a much better deal all round than anything m$ pervert. I dunno, it seems like there must be a tipping point soon when so much anti-m$ sentiment flares up that even the most toothless asslicking authorities have to do something, and no amount of m$ sending them and their families to the Bahamas, like when they are selling their shit to corporations or local governments, will help them any more.

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hah hah hah.

    Anyone read the Microsoft annual report last year? It detailed the fact that they made more money last year than they ever have in any previous financial year. Kerching!! And whilst I am not one to speculate, I am betting that the 2012 annual report starts with the wording ‘Microsoft announces record earnings……..’ Microsoft is going from strength to strength at the moment; it is making money hand over fist.

    So keep on believing the ‘Microsoft is a dying company’ tripe that you ceaselessly spout. I guess if you really, really want to believe something you can kid yourself it is true eh? And keep on buying the Androids – those $5 all add up :-)

    Finally, let me guess, the next post will accuse me working for Microsoft’s PR department……..

    1. Silverburn

      Wait...

      ..don't you work for Microsoft PR?

      I kid...

      Your point is fair; Microsoft does at least know business, and relying on 3 products is not a safe strategy these days. It pays to diversify, and it's transparently working for them...for now. Did they realise they were losing market share before diversifying, or was it the other way round?

      Problem is, it's the accountants and the suits doing the innovating, not the techs, and it shows in the quality and Innovation of their products. Time to give the power back to the people who actually design and make the products, maybe?

  57. Bullseyed

    If this is all consumer sales and there are 6 blackberries in the top 9 then perhaps RIM isn't as bad off as they look. Blackberries still have the highest security clearance for government and the best enterprise connectivity.

  58. Sarah Gurtner
    Paris Hilton

    What a disappointing, useless and well-designed device...

    after 3 generations of iPhones spread somewhat thin over 5 devices, and the last two still demanding more attention and care than a Fabergé egg, and the things having become ludicrously locked down like some pocket Fort Knox, I am all but willing and ready for something different. You know something's different already when a Microsoft brainfart already feels like a breezy. fresh wind of change.

    I'd love to give Nokia a go, and be it just that my first couple of mobes were Nokias. Nokiae. Nokiums. But Lumia it most certainly won't be, because I've had my share of fun with batteries that are soldered, screwed and/or glued well far away from being user-replacable. If one decides to take on the number one peddler of form-over-function devices and pocketable marketplaces, why not approach it from an angle that actually makes sense and improves on things? Why focus on the bits that just plain don't work and annoy people? In my books, you either attack with a proper, well though-out device or you try to copy and fail, even if the fruitheads don't decide to sue you silly.

    Windows Phone or Android for the OS.

    User-replaceable battery (with no pentalob-unscrewing or desoldering required) and some mini or micro storage card for storing data - is that really so hard or undesirable as they make it look? Or is that just the 'trend' we're all supposed to like now?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Lumia is the series

      The 800 is the first one locked up with screws. The followup 710 uses a more traditional form factor.

  59. divx
    Pint

    What a phone!

    We'll, i received my Lumia 800 and its really quite brilliant. (no i'm not a Microsoft PR).

    My brother had a go at it and he said "i want one" after 5 mins of using it. He said that it makes his iPhone 4S look like Windows 95. He loved the hardware as well, commenting on how solid it felt, although like me, didn't understand why the hell they put the flappy USB cover there.

    Also take a look at the apps market, good apps are coming in steady and fast, so impressed with the phone. Even more of a shock was the Zune software (PC end) it's actually quite good! the major change is that they really need to get rid of the "Microsoft credits" and put real currency.

    Everything is integrated so well, i chose my calendar to be linked with Facebook and Gmail, so now when somebody invites me to an event it will show up on my calendar (If i choose to not attend it gets rid of the calendar entry). I can take a picture, tag the people and share it all natively. I would go on and on but i don't think my comment would get posted if i did.

    All you haters who haven't even tried it, just have a go.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nice to see your 4 posts

      And you say you aren't a MSFT PR? You didn't even miss the "android is fragmented" line, the "Everything is integrated so well" or even better, finishing with "All you haters who haven't even tried it, just have a go."

      Come on, some of us have already given it a go, and still hate the fugly child toy interface, which wastes half of the visible screen, forcing you to scroll to read anything. The much touted (by MS PR) tiles are just android widgets, non-configurable. And you can't even change the background? You can transfer files to phone only with zune or through the MSFT cloud, and even then only approved file types?

      I'll give you one thing, the integration is nice, but I'd rather trust google with the knowledge of all my accounts (which the probably already have) than MSFT..

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sure there are many WP haters out here..

    I switched to Android as soon as it was available on a desirable handset, from a brief interlude of iphone (started of with Treo650, then on to WM6 and 6.5 smartphonewise). iphone (3gs at the time) was fluid and nice and all, but was too limiting for me - I'm used to being able to easily transfer and carry arbitrary files, access filesytems (both in the handset and through wireless, bt or wifi). Not bashing the iphone, it just wasn't for me. I'm a geek what can I say.

    But I'm finding this reflexive MS bashing somewhat juvenile. I've tried the WP7 out of curiousity - and while it's as "walled around" like the iphone and has its share of faults, I really liked the UI, and it being "action oriented" instead of being "app oriented".

    Anybody who has something mildly positive to say about WP7 is not automatically a M$ stooge.

  61. Peterkinxl5

    Two wrongs don't make a right

    I've been involved with Mobile Phones for 18 years and I've seen an awful lot come and go. Sadly I've owned a Samsung Omnia 7, used an HTC Mozart at work and faffed about with a Nokia Lumina 800.

    TOTALLY UNDERWHELMED!

    As far a premium handsets go, the last time Nokia made a truly outstanding handset, it was the Nokia N95 8GB, I had one in 2008 and I gave it away to my partners son in law. Whilst it is cosmetically mangled, it is still working fine.

    The Lumina 800 is a very average handset, doesn't go too far wrong but it isn't an iPhone killer-which it needs to be. Can you believe they replicated the two IMHO design faults of the iPhone-fixed battery and memory?

    And Windows 7 is so lame-Android Gingerbread on my HTC Sensation XE pulverises it for everything.

    So Nokia had better do something special soon or they are going to be out to graze.

    Microsoft are big enough to bounce out of a flop, Nokia are going to find it much more difficult.

    And bribing reseller staff with freebies and dishing out free handsets will NOT make up for the shortcomings.

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reading through these posts, there is mostly anger directed at anyone who likes a Windows Phone. This coming from people that are really proud of their own Android and Apple phones which are very similar compared to WP's. It's normal to get angry when you've been short changed!

  63. JDX Gold badge

    Question about WP's wasted space

    We (my wife and I) recently tried the new Lumias in the flesh for the first time. She immediately pointed out that on the homescreen, you lose an entire column of valuable screen space beneath the "->" button. I've not seen anyone else complain about this but it does seem a waste of maybe 10% of the screen... what does anyone else thing about this?

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