Another spin off from the activities of Anon? Enough said.
Sony Corp's compact discs and DVDs warehouse in Enfield, north London, was on fire throughout the night. The Japanese electronics giant may have been caught up in the riots that sporadically swept across London on a third consecutive night of trouble in the capital. However, the firm is yet to determine the cause of the blaze …
I also doubt the chav scum that torched the building even considered whether the rebuild will occur somewhere else and, as such, yet another opportunity for their worthless arses to be employed will have been removed from their community. Having said that, after seeing one of these street monkeys talking on TV I doubt anyone would employ them - shoveling shit would be beyond their intellect.
...are you willing to pay for it?
Warehousing, transport and so on is very expensive.
Do find it odd that a major warehouse is in London though, shift it a few miles away and save a fortune in costs.
Chances are this is stuff waiting to be shipped onwards so the likes of Amazon, HMV will still have large stock piles and the CD pressing plants will go into overdrive.
They should have embraced the medium of downloads sooner, and in a bigger way.
I find it hard to muster any sympathy for the music biz. Sorry.
And being uninsured due to rioting? So basically they're in the same boat as every other Londoner who's had their car/home/business torched?
There's quite a few things which an insurance company doesn't cover, nuclear bombs for one. It doesn't mean there's no compensation, since the compensation may be paid by the Government.
In the case of Riot, the Insurance company, if they pay out, can claim compensation from the Police. There was talk of replacing the Riot (Damages) Act, a few years ago, but that Act still seems to be in force. And, if you're not insured, you can make a claim yourself.
One obvious example: a lot of vehicles are insured third-party only, and so if they were damaged or destroyed there would be no insurance cover. But the owner could put in a claim to the Police Authority. If they had insurance cover that did apply, they would get a payment from the Insurance Company, who could then claim from the Police Authority.
It surprised me. But all those IRA bombs: the Government paid compensation.
one caller to LBC had gone down to his premises opposite the sony warehouse to take a quick backup of their essential business continuity data in genuine fear that both of his warehouses might be torched. the data engineer phoned LBC to say what was happening at sony, he called it a 10 acre dvd distribution building, he saw a small gang enter 'run away with armfuls of wii type stuff' then it was torched.
i suppose at night, in a riot, with the police watching from a distance contemplating cuts, a boxed PSP Vita might resemble a Wii 3, as thugs run past at high speed. The same caller mentioned that if the similarly massive sainsbury's warehouse in the same complex near the M25 was torched (as he had heard) then London would go hungry this week... I still haven't heard if this happened?
LBC devoted around 12 hours of detailed on-the-spot eyewitness reports overnight, fascinating and dreadful to hear. COBRA switch off the CRACKBERRY encryption for the next few nights maybe?
There is a large Sainsburys depot there too and a big estate of 3/4 bed houses, quite a few people live around that stretch next to Epping forest. Lots of innocent people could have their houses torched by accident. I don't like SONY much but that's just bang out of order. Busting into a depot, clocking the security staff and torching the place. I hope they have the CCTV footage and catch bastards.
When they catch the buggers involved all these riots, get 'em on chain gangs and have them digging ditches or digging over OAP's gardens and allotments. Come Springtime when the cases finally get to court, the drains will need clearing of the Winter debris too!!
Just seen some photos and its still pouring out thick black smoke.
@AC 09.29 "Do find it odd that a major warehouse is in London though, shift it a few miles away and save a fortune in costs."
Enfield is a few miles away from London proper as you can see the warehouse in question from the M25.
@AC 09.30 - Sainsbury's depot hasn't been hit probably as its on a different site with several fields and a river between them. The depot is much bigger than the Sony warehouse too as the building itself is just over half a mile long.
...but seriously, I'd like to think nobody within this forum would actually walk into a building and set fire to it for no real reason whatsoever. This is hardly a breakdown of society as we know it or if it is it'd have to crumble significantly more than this for me to even contemplate breaching such social norms, but then again maybe I wouldn't last very long in the 'new world' and I'll quickly die regretting not grabbing some Sony stock whilst I had the chance...
And what's with the violence spreading to other cities? Come on! People should get a grip of their senses and sensibilities (God I hate that film) maybe I'm giving the criminals too much credit but surely it shouldn't be that easy to slip into such base behaviour, in fact, base? No, base would be looting/gathering food and water in an appropriate situation. I guess this is simple crime and criminality.
....this is all down to some enterprising sods spotting the money-spinning potential of the cunning criminal technique pioneered in Oslo recently.
Cause mayhem at point A and nefariously fill your boots at point B while the cops are off mob-handed elsewhere. In this case, a bit of rabble-rousing in TwitFaceBerry land substitutes for a couple of tonnes of Polish fertiliser in a VW Golf and the aim of the whole exercise is discount shopping rather than mass murder.
Now if I've thought of that I suspect the Police will, so those seen looting away from the main event could be answering some very difficult questions in the not too distant future.....
...at what point does a bunch of thugs breaking into a warehouse, stealing stuff and torching it become a riot, or civil unrest?
When there's two of them? Five? Ten? When there's something else on fire nearby? When Someone else is doing the same somewhere else in the city/country? When the police turn up to try and stop them?
So many of the young today are looking at a future where they can get no proper education, no jobs, no real prospects. They are also told they will be paying for the baby-boomers pensions.
House prices are going so far past their means that is not worth even trying, council housing is practically non-existant and renting from a housing co-operative is the only way that they can move out of the family home.
The easy route, indeed maybe the only route easily open to them can always be to deal in drugs and other criminal activities since, aside from becoming a top professional footballer, they know they will not be able to afford the lifestyle they aspire to (or rather that the advertising machine wants them to aspire to) so what have they got to lose?
The looting is, I'm sure, a side-effect of the rioting which is born of frustration and anger.
The rioting is not a failure of the police, it's a failure of society and is composed of many different facets.
I believe that education is the key - give everyone a proper and decent education, so that people are aware of where they came from and the mistakes of the past, so that they can see the real world around them and not the 'perfect world' imaginings of the marketing 'bots, so that they feel that they can understand the world around them and you will have people who are capable of controlling their own futures.
Maybe politicians are scared of this and their policies are now coming to bear the fruit of the lat couple of decades of mis-management and short-term policies.
There is no single answer to this, but if I were to start anywhere it would be with education. I would then change the human rights act to reflect back to people their responsibilities to others, and not focus on an individuals rights alone.
I suspect it will take sometime to work it's way out, people will no doubt be losing their lives, home and businesses - all totally needlessly.
They all had access to a pretty reasonable education.
If they chose to be 'too cool 4 skool' and eschew the opportunity provided and paid for by us taxpayers, more fool them.
There is simply a culture in some communities of doing as little worjk as possible and expecting everybody else to pay for their lazy lives.
This rioting is no principled stand, it's simply about getting something for nothing - a microcosm of how they live their entire lives.
But you can't make it drink.. Or for that matter, learn..
There's a vast swathe now that know they don't have to work, because all their mates are on the dole, and doing ok.. There's no incentive to better themselves, because they'll always be supported, and nobody is allowed to tell them what to do because "It's a free country" and they have their "Uman Rightz".
They have an education that many countries would envy, and yet they choose not to take advantage of it because it's uncool and difficult.
My mum used to work in a local school.. And there was a creep in there of kids choosing more and more not to work, and be disruptive.. Career choices became more "Well, there's the dole, innit?", drug dealer (a lot of them knew the game quite well by that stage, and made a hellish amount of money; turning up in the latest bling), the gals were convinced there was always prostitution, and they'd be happy selling themselves because they thought it'd be fun to be laid and paid for it "And there's always 'Pretty Woman'..".
Life got increasingly hard for the ones that wanted to work in that environment due to bullying.. And the bullies were the ones that got all the attention (because you couldn't tell them off, you had to bribe them). Tell them off, and they try and get you for abusive behaviour and lodge complaints. It became a badge of cool to cause the most disruption and have no comeback.
And people are surprised that this just spirals into later life?
We've sown the seeds of this (as a society) with good intentions. We're now paying the price..
I agree with much of your sentiment here, but there is a flaw; giving them an education does not automagically create them a suitable job at the end of it.
There *are* jobs available - but they're just not worth doing, especially when it's financially borderline compared to benefits. And with higher education comes higher expectations, so naturally street cleaning (and cleaning jobs in general) are 'beneath' them.
And further - as the current crop of grads are finding out - industry is playing it safe and lean; only experienced hands are wanted who can make a direct contribution to the business from day 1; grad or apprentice schemes are rarer than hens teeth.
I like your idea on changing the Human rights act though. Good spot.
There also needs to be some sort of disincentive to crime; sentences are too lenient and don't convey a sense of justice to the wrong parties. And often a 1st offence is a let off with a warning or a paultry, and un-enforced community service.
>I like your idea on changing the Human rights act though. Good spot.
No-one can cover it all - and since everything is connected there is no single answer, so where to start?
People are right when they comment about generations of people whose highest expectation is the dole - how do you get out from that? I don't know, maybe to give some extra benefits (not the dole!) to people who can prove they have certain skills? exams are not a test at the moment since the whole education system has been dumbed down,
In Starship Troopers Robert Heinlein had the notion of earning citizenship through various means, which then granted you certain rights (having babies was one) though are we as a society prepared for that sort of regime?
Maybe in an over populated world we can't afford not to? How long before we have life-crystals in our hands?
You are right about expectations - if you have a degree are you wanting to wipe old peoples bottoms for a career? of course not. I would argue that a good education is not just about qualifications and expectations, but about your outlook on life - would we be willing to go looting give the 'right' circumstances? and if not then why not? what makes one person sit at home and another take to the streets?
I would say education - others may say other things, who knows who is (more) right :-)
Qualifications are valuable when they are scarce, specific skills can command a premium but guessing which skillset will be in demand in three years is hard, let alone 10 or 12. Education is basically a 'positional good'
Something needs to happen longer term after the Outrage and Firm Action bit is done with and the tabloids have found something else. A society with less inequality is the answer by the look of it but how to get there?
Just some thoughts as I followed the trail of JD Sports hangars out from Birmingham city centre a few hours ago. All the size tags were M and S.
@Paul - Basically, as you say, driving young people into criminality is a myopic direction for society, that our Thatcherite/Blairite overlords encouraged for years, including such demagogic moves as right-to-own then limiting new housing stock => driving house prices up so property owners could consume more german cars; ignoring the relative poverty that they were driving the non-elect into;
However the rôle of the police is less than an innocent one, as they've consistently lobbied for an accretion of the kind of unjust procedural laws that bolster unjust substantive laws; while in some areas actual attitude – the kind of stuff that Joe Public notices, is Old Bill an arrogant bully? Is Plod going to try to lift a finger to catch the criminals? etc – has improved, there's definitely room for further improvement
In a sense riots are a kind of poetic justice, noticeably given their spontaneity, they are a sign of widespread resentment, even though the 'gottagetateevee' attitude looks kind of contemptible at an individual level, it's the collective level that teaches us some lessons.
Another is the constant exporting of jobs to other countries, thus depriving our citizens the ability to get a job,
Another is the wasteful purchases by government, MoD etc. thus depriving other parts of society with needed capital.
Another is the short-term approach taken by the like of the banks and investment houses, who are all too keen on taking over a company and raping it's reputation, stock and assets for a quick profit.
Another is the approach that successive governments have taken to increase our 'security' by adopting ever more intrusive measures, assuming that people are guilty unless they are proven innocent.
Another is the overwhelming amount of American TV shows on our screens that are degrading our national identity and somehow giving people the impression that we should be just like the yanks.
(and don't get me started on 'reality TV')
Anyone else wanting to add anything?
This is fun - nice sunny, peaceful day at home and a multi-threaded debate.
As you say, there are many factors leading to the very real grievances that are somewhat banally evidenced in the looting of consumer goods;
As I see it the trouble is that it's easier to say 'change the Human Rights Act' than to provide a working alternative; even though as all laws are, it's a lottery who gets sometimes laughably kid-glove treatment, the principle is to delimit rigour from oppression, we definitely need some kind of definition of oppression in our law;
bringing us neatly back to the question of education, possibly we should emphasize civics classes so people – from all sides – understand the importance of some classical values such as honesty, integrity, responsibility, firmness, mercy, etc
I guess that's another part of history - looking at the alternatives and why we have the benefits we do.
The NHS, benefits system and public education didn't come about by accident after all, even if current generations assume they have been around for ever, it wasn't that long ago that we in the UK had a totally different social order, and being unemployable meant a slow and hungry death unless people decided that you were a charitable case and took pity on you.
A return to Dickensian Britain? I don't think so - but people being aware of what came before can't hurt can it?
But that would involve REAL education! Not 'training people for jobs that aren't there'. Might even mean more would grow up with values that would make 'acquiring new consumer goods' seem less urgent. It would also mean they could turn their hand to whatever we HADN'T realised we would need in the future.
(Assuming HR departments became less addicted to thinking in stereotypes!)
"We cannot determine the cause of the fire or the extent of the damage yet because it's not possible to enter the building"
I've done it for them, without needing to enter the building, a quick nip to Sky/BBC makes it rather plainly clear that the place is pile of rubble, nothing survived...
So in addition to Sony the following labels who are less able to soak the damage also held stock there:
1234, 2020 Vision, Accidental, Ad Altiora, Adventures Close to home , Alberts , All City , Alt Delete, Ambush Reality, Angular, Ark, ATC, Atic, Atlantic Jaxx, Azuli, B Unique, Backyard, Bad Sneakers, Bandstock, Banquet, Beggars, Big Chill, Big Dada, Big Life / Nul / Sindy Stroker, Boombox, Border Community, Boysnoize, Brille, Bronzerat, Brownswood, Buzzin Fly, Can You Feel It, Catskills, ChannelFly, Chemikal Underground, City Rockers, Counter, D Cypher, Dance To The Radio, Deceptive, Def Jux, Dirtee Stank, Divine Comedy, Domino, Drag City, Drive Thru, Drowned in Sound, Duophonic, Eat Sleep / Sorepoint, Electric Toaster, Emfire, F. Comm, Fabric, Faith And Hope, Fantastic Plastic, Fargo, FatCat, Feraltone, Finders Keepers / Twisted Nerve, Fingerlickin', Flock, Free Range, From The Basement, Full Time Hobby, Goldsoul, Gronland, Groove Attack, Halftime, Hassle ,Heron. Hum&Haw, Independiente, Info UK, Join Us, Kartel, Kensaltown, Kitsune, Kompakt, Laughing Stock, Leftroom, Lex, Lo Max, Loose, Love Box, Lowlife, Lucky Number, Marquis Cha Cha, Memphis Industry, Merok, Metroline, Mute, Naïve, Nation, Navigator. New World, Ninja Tune, Nuclear Blast ,One Little Indian, Output / People in the Sky / Process, Pale Blue, Palm, Peacefrog, PIAS Recordings, PIP 555 Productions, Play To Work, Powerhouse (T2), Propaganda / Ho Hum, Raw Canvas, Red Grape, Red Telephone Box, Rekids, Renaissance, Respect Productions (PES digital), Reveal Records, SMG, Rock Action, Roots, Rough Trade, Rough Trade Comps, Rubyworks, Ruffa Lane, Search And Destroy, Secret Sundaze, Secretly Canadian / Jagjaguwar / Dead Oceans, Sell Yourself, Setanta, Shatterproof, Sideone Dummy, Slam Dunk, Smalltown, Soma, Something In Construction, Sonar Kollectiv, Soul Jazz, Southern Fried, Stranded Soldier, Subliminal, Sunday Best, TARGO, Taste, Ten Worlds, Thrill Jockey, Total Fitness, Touch And Go, Track And Field, TriTone, Trouble, Try Harder, Turk, Turnstile, Twenty 20, Underworld, Union Square, Urban Torque, Vagrant, Vice, Victory, Wagram , Wall Of Sound, Warp, Wi45 , Wonky Atlas, Word And Sound, Xtra Mile, You Are Here.
( from here: http://thefourohfive.com/news/article/pias-warehouse-destroyed-in-london-riots-pias-fundraiser-event-details )
I really wouldn't want to be downwind of that lot. Lots of cyanide compounds for starters.
It will be interesting to see how many people are at the core of organising things.
The cops have arrested 450+ people - along with everything in their pockets. I'm sure they have plenty of evidence that BBMs and other formats were being used to organise/direct the crowds.
Since SONY has a reputation for taking "Music" and Intellectual Properties without prior written consent from it's original owner(s), Mr. Michael Dean Hajas has on all accounts warned Howard Stringer and Gary Wade Leak of the potential financial outcome that could arise. Britney Spears released "Slave For You" through Zomba / Robert John "Mutt" Lange, with Matt Haywood of HHO Publishing in 2001 without signing a publishing contract. After 89 million sales of Mr. Michael Dean Hajas creation, renumeration has not taken place from any of the continents that sold this illegally obtained "ART". Many attempts have been made to communicate with these "corporate thieves" to no avail, and it is with the great regret to see the facade of the "American Affiliated Business" community, along with the Library of Congress and it's people following a path of financial destruction that will take generations to overcome. During interview with Radio One of Detroit in May of 2008, I publicly proclaimed that United States of America was under financial attack(s) by China, to which the reply was one of rebuke. Now the financial Global Status Quo is in "dire" position, with the entire European Community at risk, with it's Western cohorts, leading the way. This synopsis will continue Globally until there is a 100 % written public apology by all those affiliated with the assumption of Mr. Michael Dean Hajas Intellectual Properties, accompanied by renumeration of 100 million dollars in GOLD bullion.
My greatest apology is for those who had nothing to do with this Intellectual Property theft, and the financial burden that has been place over you. If you are tired of the financial status and your current situation, it is recommended to demand accountability by SONY BMG/ ZOMBA / ROBERT JOHN "MUTT" LANGE / Britney Spears, Eric Lavine, Gary Wade Leak, Howard Stringer, Matt Haywood.
This Global Financial Crisis will continue to escalate until the United States of America offers up it's corporate accountability by full investigation to be made public by Congress and it's authorities.
Peace be with you all.......this winter of 2012, will be the crippler, Mark My Word!
Mr. Michael Dean Hajas
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