back to article Higgs Boson hiding place narrows

The particle physicist’s game of “hot, warm, cold” in search of the Higgs Boson seems to be getting a little warmer with preliminary results announced by physicists at the Large Hadron Collider late last week. Actually, what’s getting closer is an either-or: the Higgs Boson will be identified or it will be ruled out (which …

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  1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Go

    Tommaso Dorigo has the graphs

    Here:

    http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/combined_higgs_search_limits_circa_2011-81139

    He also hints at the advances in computing power and flexibility:

    "I think the most important thing to draw home from the above results is their very existence. You might have overlooked this fact, but please consider that some of the data used to produce the graphs (and the hundreds of ancillary figures that belong to the individual searches summarized in those graphs) have been produced just one month ago! This is unheard-of in hadron collider physics experiments, and you should compare it with the Tevatron, where the most up-to-date results use data which are six months old or more -a time where the LHC still had to start the 2011 running ... Such a display of power and focus on results is real news, and quite remarkable in my humble opinion. Not only were the data processed and calibrated in no time; they were also validated and analyzed basically overnight. Plus the internal groups and review committees have really worked around the clock to make the deadline of EPS."

  2. anadish

    No Higgs - but gravitation deciphered already

    No collision 'on earth' can bring out Higgs. I literally mean 'on earth', because these are not the condition which can take us back to the so-called big bang. Further, Higgs is theory. In practice gravity is due to particles whose spin is of course 0, but the rest is not so definitive as being thought in the SM. anadish.com has some details of the developments.

    1. TimeMaster T
      WTF?

      WTF??

      I read your comment and checked out your web site.

      What the $%#@ are you talking about?

      I'm not trying to belittle your work or your research. What I am saying is that both your comment and your website are not clear about the concept your trying to present.

      Maybe its just me, this wouldn't be the first time I didn't get something that was apparently crystal clear to everyone else.

      1. Robert E A Harvey
        WTF?

        @TimeMaster T

        Oh good.

        It's not just me, then

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Miss Gravitation shacked up with Mr Higgs

      It's a marriage of convenience, otherwise the universe may come to an end.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Stop..

      whittering on about this at every opportunity . Your 'explanations' are rubbish, and what has it got to do with gravity ?

      The Higgs mechanism is about MASS, inertial mass not gravity.

    4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Meh

      "In practice gravity is due to particles whose spin is of course 0"

      What kind of "practice" is that?

      Likelihood of graviton detection by a Kardashev Type II civilization: just about 0

    5. Dave N
      Thumb Down

      do one

      @anadish: look mate, you really need to be posting your comments somewhere else. No one here gives a flying f**k.

    6. Velv Silver badge
      Joke

      Compensate

      All we really need to do is direct the particles through a Heisenberg Compensator and we'll be fine

    7. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

      @anadish

      When are you going to demonstrate the effect you say you've discovered publicly?

      Can you give a succinct summary of what the effect actually is?

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thanks, but I take my science from the peer-reviewed journals

      rather than the comments pages of websites

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Boffin

        So Pereleman is out then?

        http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Sept06/library_arXiv.html

    9. Ru
      Boffin

      Of Spin and Theory

      Huh, and there was me thinking that the graviton must necessarily have spin 2. The search for the Higgs Boson is quite a separate bit of research to quantum gravity mediated by particles. The graviton is also just a theory, and a rather more tenuous one from the Higgs field, I'd say.

      You are suggesting mass and gravity come form the same source, I assume? It is hard to tell, because your website says *nothing* and your pictures are content and context free.

    10. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      You know gravity is a myth..

      .. the Earth just sucks.

      Someone had to say it before the conversation descended into real science.. What? Oh, too late..

      1. Britt Johnston
        IT Angle

        cryptic clue

        gravity without IT is just brown sauce.

    11. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Just a clue

      It is normal for the speed of light to vary in air (atm. pressure, relative humidity, temperature etc will cause rather dramatic fluctuations). It has nothing to do with a "gravitational lock" of sorts. I hope you have other arguments.

  3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Joke

    Wow. Their next project could be for a *smaller* collider

    Now that is impressive.

    Of course it'll still likely be more expensive than the LHC.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Smaller!

      Or at least thinner! Possibly with rounded corners!!

      1. Captain Thyratron

        Well...

        These things don't do too well with corners.

  4. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Holmes

    The real Inspector Hound

    BIRDBOOT Where's Higgs?

    MOON I replace him tonight.

    MOON AND BIRDBOOT Where's Higgs?

    MOON Every time.

    BIRDBOOT What?

    MOON It is as if we only existed one at a time, never appearing together but combining to achieve continuity. I keep space warm for Higgs. My presence defines his absence, his absence explains my presence, his presence excludes mine....When Higgs and I walk down this aisle together to claim our common seat, the oceans will fall into the sky and the trees will hang with fishes.

  5. Disco-Legend-Zeke
    Facepalm

    If They Can Prove...

    ...that there is no Higgs Bosom, then perhaps you will take another look at my Yin-Yang model of the photon..

  6. Morteus
    WTF?

    Please not again...

    ... everytime this bobs to the surface I make another stab at trying to understand it. Yet again, my coffee gets cold, I smoke too many fags, and the world remains more or less the same as it was when I started. Theoretical phiysics is as meaningless as it is intangible - ah wait - is that why it's called the God particle!?

    More coffee Igor and emply the ash tray!!

  7. Nigel Brown
    Boffin

    This is all jolly good and well...

    ...but has *anyone* bothered to feed Schrödinger’s cat lately?

    1. Morteus

      I fed it hypothetical Super Wiskas...

      ... question is, did it eat it or not?

      answers on a theoretical postcard please.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Boffin

        @Morteus

        'question is, did it eat it or not?'

        Both. At the same time.

      2. Max Pritchard
        Holmes

        Previous results have concluded:

        that 80% of owners said their cat preferred it. From that I would infer that 80% of the cat ate the Wiskas. Elementary...

      3. BorkedAgain

        The answer is on the other side of this postcard...

        ...and when you turn it over it will know what it is.

    2. shinanygnz

      Careful what you feed the kitteh

      http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/04/funny-pictures-survived-the-experiment/

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
      Boffin

      I might have done so...

      ...but how can you know?

  8. Robert E A Harvey
    Thumb Up

    "Masses of new evidence"

    Excellent.

  9. Robert E A Harvey
    Coat

    Big laugh

    My idea is that maybe the Higgs Boson is really large. perhaps 12735 kilometers, with a mass of 5.9721986×10^24 kg, and in an orbit 3.041954×10^11 meters in diameter around something rather larger.

    Mine's the one that seems implausibly massive

    1. Andus McCoatover
      Windows

      Ah.

      They found it.

      It was circling Pluto. They'll call it "P4" for awhile.

      Swiss'd better get back to chocolate and cukoo clocks.They're better at that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Errm, cuckoo clocks are *German*

        Common misunderstanding. Cuckoo clocks are a German invention.. Just for the record..

  10. Doug Glass
    Go

    "Higgs Boson Hiding Place Narrows"

    They said the same thing about D.B. Cooper at one time.

  11. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
    Joke

    Sir

    I reckon they'll find it at the speed of light, or someone somehow has left it in their handbag at the restaurant at the end of the universe.

  12. JaffaMan
    Headmaster

    Hidden Higgs

    Some say his hair is so dark and lush because he washes it with dark matter, and that no-one has found the Higgs Boson because he keeps them all in a jar in a cupboard under his stairs, all I know is - he's called Professor Brian Cox!

    1. The Brave Sir Robin
      Headmaster

      Amazing...

      ... and wonderful.

  13. stu 4
    Thumb Up

    anadish

    congratulations mately. A clear potential winner in what I think should be a new reg catagory: MoTF: mentalist of the week.

    I especially enjoyed the pictures of your 'experimental apperatus' balanced on 4 shoe polish tins.

    stu

    1. tmTM

      ha

      Amateur science is amateur yo!

  14. Colin Millar
    Megaphone

    Hiding place narrows?

    My guess is it's in Pakistan next door to where they found Osama.

    @Destroy all monsters

    "Not only were the data processed and calibrated in no time; they were also validated and analyzed basically overnight."

    So - plenty of scope for backtracking built-in - that's the way I like my analysis - not too definite

  15. The Serpent
    Joke

    I hearby petition..

    ..that the International Institute of Extreme Cleverness categorises all theorical particles as Lordlucons until they have been successfully proved and/or observed

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Exciting!

    I read this news this morning but was way too much excited to type any words at that time. Still shivering of excitement! Cannot wait to see where if anywhere Higgs Bosons are hiding...

    </irony>

  17. Marco Mieshio
    Big Brother

    No such thing

    I am not a physicist however one thing I do know is that if you look hard enough for something that isn't there you will find something that fits your remit. In other words the Higgs Boson does not exist and never will do but they may find something which will appease them.

    I feel sorry for these scientist who dedicate their lives to searching for something that they never find. One such scientist is Albert Einstein who spent his dying days researching unififed string theory. Any decent scientist will tell you that Einsteins theory of relativity is now being called into question. The point being here is even if you do come up with some new fangled theory it does not mean you have actually cracked any nuts. Theories just theories and I suspect the Higgs Boson theory would be something like "The reason we did not find it after 30 years of searching for it was because it didn't want to be found"...

  18. Nick Pettefar

    Hiding Place

    Down her sweater? It's where I regularly find my wife's...

    1. Chemist

      "Any decent scientist will tell you that Einsteins theory of relativity...."

      Any decent scientist will tell you that every theory is provisional and any hard negative evidence is likely to be its death-knell.

      However Relativity isn't at that point - all tests show agreement. No rival theory matches it for the depth or quality of its experimental verification

    2. John Angelico
      Joke

      Sounds like...

      "unififed string theory" sounds like something the Goons would approve of - a tin whistle with only one note, played as the theme music for "The Great String Robbery" episode.

    3. Charles Manning

      Worse still for scientists

      Seeking and never finding isn't all that bad because you are never proven wrong.

      It is much harder for those scientists who built a PhD and a career on a broken theory and have their life's work trashed by someone who figures out a better model. These poor buggers tend to get cantankerous and obstructive (far beyond just playing devil's advocate).

      "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. " — Max Planck

      As for the lifetime of theories... They only stand until a better one comes along. Newton was at least humble enough to state that his theories were limited by his observation powers and he expected there to be improvements. Thus, Newton was never wrong.

      It would be highly dubious to claim that Einstein "got it right". In 500 years will we still say that?

  19. Guido Esperanto

    If its found...

    you'll have all the evangelicals labelling it as "GodSpunk".

    Can I patent that terms please before the GodSquad claim it.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    H2G2

    "Actually, what’s getting closer is an either-or: the Higgs Boson will be identified or it will be ruled out (which would disappoint particle physicists right up until the point they realize they now have brand-new lifetime jobs rewriting just about everything they thought they knew)."

    Reading this makes me realize the whole hunt for the Higgs-Boson and the LHC is perhaps a real-life version of Deep Thought and the seach for the ulitmate answer .... with physicists having taken on the role of philosphers and LHC being Deep Thought. Only remaining question - is Brian Cox Vroomfondle or Majikthise?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    This is all very well and good

    But... Can we use the Higgs mechanism to build a space drive?

    BTW my money is on 133.7 GeV if anyone asks.

    AC, but I keep a crowbar under my desk just in case.

  22. Charlie van Becelaere
    Black Helicopters

    Is there anything

    without a conspiracy theory?

    http://iheardacouplethings.blogspot.com/2011/07/cern-to-hide-higgs-boson.html

  23. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
    Boffin

    Higss Boson hiding place

    Same place as Lord lucan and shergar.

    I've lost intereest, somebody wake me up when they find a tachyon.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Have we found the fat bastard then?

    I just thought I'd ask, because apparently, once you've put on weight, there's no chance of losing it.

  25. Robert E A Harvey

    A simpler task

    Cern can't find the Higgs Boson, but I know how to find the Greggs Moron.

    You go into any branch and try to buy something from the youngest person behind the counter.

  26. Doug Glass
    Go

    Narrow as ...

    ... a dog turd in a swimming pool. But who's questioning "narrowing"?

  27. djnapkin
    Facepalm

    Higgs Boson found

    I have discovered the Higgs Boson particle, but the margins of this web blog are too small to contain the location.

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