back to article Cabinet Office talks to Facebook & co about new ID system

Facebook and other social networks could be used by British citizens to sign into public services online, The Register has learned. A Cabinet Office spokeswoman confirmed to us this morning that the department was speaking to "a range of industry" about its ID assurance scheme, a prototype for which is expected in October this …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who am I?

    Only the UK government can be authoritative on that score (at least I hope it cares enough about who is who in this country to take that responsibility), so the quote "no data would be held by the government through the ID assurance scheme" seems a bit wrong.

    Sure, the whole thing can be distributed, but if the IDs handled are to be trusted enough, they must be linked to a fundamental verified identity - which only UK Gov can define.

    I'd be interested in how they plan to cover that without having a National ID scheme.

    1. Mark 65 Silver badge

      Re:Who am I

      Indeed the concept of Facebook being able to genuinely ID anyone makes the whole story seem as if it was meant to contain enough buzzwords and phrases such that the Government's press release scores top result in Google. Has the Government started trying to collect Google ad revenues on its sites?

    2. Starkadder
      Megaphone

      I know who I am

      The UK government can make no claim to be authoritative on the score of my, or anyone else's identity. They do not own me, I am not a servant of their state. The government exists to provide certain services for the common good. My identity belongs to me, not to them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re : "I know who I am"

        I agree with you sentiments 100%. Perhaps I was a bit careless with my use of "authoritative". What I meant was that UKGov must be the sole authority for providing the means by which my identity as a British Citizen can be verified, where such is necessary, since it makes the rules governing who is/isn't a British citizen.

        As you say, it doesn't define me and it doesn't own me ; but it does sometimes need to be sure who I am, and I need to be sure that no-one else can purport to be me in dealings with the government.

  2. James Micallef Silver badge
    Facepalm

    OMG!!

    Where to start? The complete disinterest in user privacy on the part of FB, G et al? The fact that UK gov will somehow recognise users' electronic IDs from platforms where it's really easy to create multiple fake IDs? The huge potential for abuse on the part of both the government and giant corporations whose real clients are advertisers, not the users? The fact that criminals would be able to pick a platform of choice to spoof someone's ID to the gov? etc etc

    I did have a moment where I thought: Well, that way the gov will force FB, G etc to bring their login & security standards up to scratch with online banking tokens offered by the banks.... and tghen I remembered this is UK gov + IT we're talking about, and I returned to sanity.

  3. Fluffykins Silver badge

    Facebook?

    BLOODY FACEBOOK?

    The same porous organisation that I wouldn't trust with my personal data even if I was impersonating a non existent person, with someone else entering the data on a PC that was switched off and disconnected from the Internet .

    Yeah right.

    About as likely as a Marmite laser.

    1. Sir Cosmo Bonsor
      Thumb Up

      Hmmmm

      Marmite

  4. Nick 6
    Devil

    argh

    Incompetence, meet Evil.

  5. Steve the Cynic
    WTF?

    Wait! What?

    What is an identity assurance service? And if it is what I think it is, a means for them to verify that you are actually who you say you are, then how does anyone expect a "market" for such services to work?

    I can see how it might work (without reference to questions of security and / or privacy) to have a single outsourced supplier of such services. That is, a single organisation that is not part of the government to which the online public services refer questions of identity verification. However, a single supplier supplying services to a single (many-parted) consumer of such services does not constitute a market.

    So, given that the single many-parted consumer doesn't change (except to get bigger and more centralised, that being the tendency of British governments), the only flexibility is to add multiple suppliers. That creates what is technically termed a monopsony, a single buyer buying from many suppliers, and usually creates a market with lower-than-natural prices (in the same sort of way that a monopoly usually features higher-than-natural prices).

    However, we just know from the bitter lessons of experience that the reality would be different, notably that the corporate entities involved would (a) probably be foreign, (b) not be to blame for problems (unless the government wanted a scapegoat), and (c) charge a price more like the monopoly price.

    And how does it work, anyway? Do you, the punters, (I can be left out of this, as I moved to France a couple of years ago. My only reason to look back is to see who is following me over.) get to choose your validation supplier? (Doesn't work, as questions beyond "what is your name, what is your quest, what is your favourite colour" might as well be written, "argle flargle".) Do we give all the suppliers full access to the data set? Something else?

    All in all, I'd say I'm well out of it, being over here.

    1. bob 46
      Happy

      well out of it in france?!

      UK govt and IT is a farce, no arguments there. Agree with everything you said.

      But you have moved to France and think you have no more IT worries?

      three words:

      Sar - Coz - Eee

      Bwuhahahahaha!

  6. Wheaty73
    Facepalm

    Icon

    Nooooo.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    No No and Thrice no

    I don't want no stinking facebook account than you very much. I'm fast approaching retirement and will probably need government services in a few years (Bus pass, pension etc) but as a victim of identity fraud (No darling I didn't spend $10,000hk on a certain type of hotel in Macao) I won't use any form of social networking in order to get services.

    Paranoid? Yes.

    Scared of IT systems? Nope. I found my wife via the internet.

    BB? you bet.

  8. Ian Rogers
    Unhappy

    Who do I trust with my identification

    Banks yes, Facebook no.

    1. Titus Technophobe
      Unhappy

      Banks ???

      Most of whom use one of two credit reference agencies for verification of identity. Now then try reporting a problem to either of these two organisations?

      The response is not as you might suspect 'Ah yes Mr Phobe, so you are telling us we are holding incorrect personal data about you, let us get on to that straight away', it is rather (having paid them as many £2 data request fees as they can get away with) 'Incorrect data, not our fault gov.... you need to contact the telephone company, food supplies company, wine supplies company, solicitors etc etc. They will then correct the records for you'.

      This whole process takes about 6 months, lots of letters, phone calls etc etc basically to correct a credit reference agency committing a legalised form of libel. So no I wouldn't trust the banks at all. Mind 'Face book' as a verification agency OMG it is the middle of June not April the first.

      1. tfewster Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Re: credit reference agencies

        I'm not really surprised that correcting the credit reference agencies (CRAs) records on you can be painful in practice; The ICO leaflet on such agencies suggests that fixing the problem at "source", i.e. the lender who "downvoted" you, will automagically fix your CRAs record as it filters through - which sounds reasonable, but if the lender screwed up & can't be bothered fixing the data - They're the ones libelling you

        However, isn't one of the requirements of the Data Protection Act that the data any company holds on you must be accurate? So the onus is on the CRAs to correct the data if you dispute it, and in the meantime it should be flagged as "disputed". It may still be disclosed to companies asking for your record, but would make it easier to ask a new lender why they had turned you down & to review their decision.

    2. Someone Else Silver badge
      WTF?

      Who do I trust with my identification

      Me: yes.

      !Me: no. (and that **includes** banks, dammit!)

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        @Someone Else

        I assume you are serious, but this point is really not appreciated widely enough. The requirement is to "authenticate the transaction" (http://www.schneier.com/essay-153.html) rather than "identify the person" and a deep understanding of the difference leads one to solutions that don't require shared ID at all. In fact, if you think you need an ID database, then you are probably in the middle of designing a broken system.

  9. david 63

    Not going to happen...

    ...I'm currently engaged in the public sector. All very keen to engage in social networking. So keen only LinkedIn is allowed through the proxy.

  10. oldredlion
    FAIL

    Not for profit

    They've privatised most parts of the UK already

    so now they are going to privatise our privacy?

  11. Harry
    Thumb Down

    "social networks could possibly be involved"

    That ought to be a *very* low possibility and one that only happens in the unlikely event that a privacy directive actually offers real privacy and insists that companies cannot disclose personal information to any party other than the one that the user has specifically given it to.

    Social networks are known privacy leaks and indeed most of them are set up for the specific purpose of invading privacy.

  12. Number6
    Big Brother

    What comes to mind...

    is "Bollocks". I've already started using Facebook with a different browser so that it is isolated from everything else I browse. No sending of cookies to Facebook because I'm reading some other site, they can live in a walled garden.

    Meanwhile, we're all jumping up and down over here about the crazy idea, what are the government up to over in the shadow in the corner?

  13. Mike Richards Silver badge

    Face meet palm

    Facebook? Just in case I've missed an important news story, is the government proposing to secure our personal information with the same foreign company that relentlessly infringes users' privacy and distributes their information far and wide? Or is there another Facebook out there.

    Take a look at Francis Maud, does he look like the sort of person who has the vaguest clue he knows what he's talking about?

  14. ed2020
    WTF?

    Hmmm....

    Forced to hand over personal details to advertisers (for that is what FB and Google are) in order to receive public services? I'd rather go without the services.

  15. Bunker_Monkey
    WTF?

    No f***king WWAAYY!!!

    Believe me - this happens I am cancelling my account and going off grid!

    Makes you think how much they are paying interim managers within the government to find this out! plus you cant even get on FB on the government intranet!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Certificates?

    It's about time that you could use X509 certificates to log into the government gateway. The option has been there for a while but just plain doesn't work because both of the issuing authorities no longer offer the service.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Paris Hilton

      Dear sir

      Please kindly explain. Was that an argument for, or against?

      I mean, "issuing authorities" no longer offering the service is a bit of a sign on the wall, not so? Also, why third parties, for who are the authorities here, really? The government usually reserves that for itself. Why even require a hierarchical system if you're not going to use it properly? Certain government agencies abroad allowed you to (securely) submit any certificate, even a self-signed one, for subsequent communication assurance use. And that does make sense. This, er, not so much.

      Sincerely, confusedly confused.

  17. Ken Hagan Gold badge
    FAIL

    Perhaps I'm missing something

    "to prove identity when accessing any public services [via the internet]"

    Why would I want to do that, then? The only reason to bother proving my identity to a government website is so that the subsequent actions can be legally binding. I'm not going to trust a social networking site with *that* authority.

    Coming up next: green paper suggests that everyone signs over power of attorney to their local MP so that we can be governed more easily. No-one in parliament spots the obvious flaw because none of them have any legal expertise.

    1. nematoad Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Not so

      "No-one in parliament spots the obvious flaw because none of them have any legal expertise."

      Nope, sorry a LOT of MPs are lawyers, Tony Blair (remember him ?) was one and look at the way he viewed the privacy of the public.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Not so

        I'm aware of their paper qualifications. I was speaking of the expertise demonstrated by their actions. Can you imagine any country solicitor suggesting that credentials that enable legally binding (on you) actions be stored on a foreign website run by someone with Zuckerberg's track record? Neither can I.

        So what exactly happens to lawyers when they become MPs? Does it hurt? Are there videos?

  18. Captain Mainwaring
    Alert

    So, right back in the beginning....

    How do these various trusted personal data agencies establish the authenticity of the applicants who would wish to use their services? This part is the absolute critical element of any identity verification system, particularly one that will eventually involve all government departments, both national and local. Unless the initial enrolment system is very robust indeed, the opportunity for fraud and criminal deception could potentially be enormous. Social security and pension payments alone run into billions of pounds a year and a half-baked registration regime could provide some lucrative earnings for the criminal masterminds out there. I hope I'm wrong about this, but this does seem like a " all eggs in one basket solution" that might well become ripe for exploitation.

  19. Jon Smit
    Big Brother

    Sorry, you've got the wrong friends

    "We cannot connect you to any goverment department, as it has been noted that amongst your friends are - Labour Party, Tories are Tossas, Amnesty International, etc etc"

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
      Coat

      Re: you've got the wrong friends

      And that's just the Lib Dems.

  20. David Gale

    Cabinet Office, Arees & Elbows

    Why are the Cabinet Office talking to Facebook, when the originator and the IPR of TADAG is in the UK? A small component of TADAG spawned OpenID, now on a billion computers world-wide. Maybe they ought to think about sustainable architectures before they go dressing their shop window...?

  21. CmdrX3
    WTF?

    It would appear that they have now lost the plot

    They are totally off their trolleys

  22. nyelvmark
    Black Helicopters

    This looks like fun.

    So, I go down the Darby and Joan club, chat up some old biddy, buy her a gin and get her to tell me her life story. Then I go home and create a Farcebook account for her (it's not likely she's got one, is it?). Now I go to pensions.gov.uk and ask to get her pension sent to me. ID check? Farcebook innit? Win.

    This is such a ludicrous story that I wonder if it isn't being misreported.

    Still, FB as "identity assurance service" - Hmm. It makes me even more suspicious of this alleged 'face recognition' system. In discussions on that, I pointed out that working face-recognition AI had yet to be demonstrated, but that the massive database of tagged face-shots that FB threatens to accumulate might make the problem solvable.

    But to be an "identity assurance service" you don't actually _need_ the AI. Provided the fee is high enough, a human operator should be able to confirm your identity quite quickly from a current image, if she can instantly call up a number of images that have been tagged as you (even if some of them are actually pot plants, domestic pets, or celebrities). They can also add the new image to your portfolio, so that the more you use them, the better they get.

    Nice.

  23. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Breakthrough!

    Have you ever thought 'Nobody could be that stupid' only to find that yes, indeed they could? Well, I think I've worked out what is happening. It's a quantum effect proportional to the size of the organisation, our distance from them and the number of us thinking the same thing.

    I call it Neurological Unthinking Twaddle Syndrome.

    So obviously, the more of us think that the government couldn't get any worse, the more likely it is for *exactly* that to happen. So please, stop now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      It's not even a bad plan if you care to look at it from their perspective.

      Yes, this post is somewhat trollish, but humour me and just for a few moments forget just about everything you know about computers, computing, networking, and the internet.

      Humour me. They're senior civil servants and really really like the status quo, and now there's this digital thing and they're on the short end of the divide and oh dear people are trying to communicating with them ovar teh intarwebz. Oh noes!

      So who are those nasty people trying to talk to them then? Best find out. All the expensive consultant suit experts say you need identity management, and hey do they know identity. It's like passports, isn't it? But then come the problems:

      They've burned themselves hard on ID cards.

      But they (think they) need to hop on this "digital ID" bandwagon too, you know. Have to. No choice. Sooo... what better than to outsource all that, eh? Let someone else worry about the details. What do you say, my man?

      I say, all sorts of upsides, old chap!

      Like quick lead time. Easy roll-out. NO CULPABILITY. And so on. Fabulous!

      Except that, say, requiring every citizen who wants to deal with the government "over teh intarwebz" to have a "fully verified" facebook account is its very own very special very short bus kind of very stupid.

      Yes, you and I know just how stupid it is. But if you don't know that, it's not quite that bad. And they in fact do not know that. But they must do something. And this is something.

      In fact, other than that, it's sheer brilliance. I dub this short bus brilliance, for short.

    2. Asgard
      Unhappy

      Profound Government stupidity

      It looks like we are witnessing a truly unprecedented event in the history of government stupidity. Government & Facebook merging, our worse fears are coming true!

      @Will Godfrey, "Have you ever thought 'Nobody could be that stupid' only to find that yes, indeed they could?"

      It often takes an extreme case to test the boundaries of a current theory to create a new theory.

      Will Godfrey, in honour of your discovery, we need a new SI unit to quantify stupidity and so I am extremely tempted to suggest we call it the Godfrey. :)

      This helps explain a lot. For example, everyone suffers from time to time with milli-Godfreys (milli-Gods?), but it takes true dedication, only ever found in politics to achieve a pure reading of 1 Godfrey (or as they think of themselves, 1 God). Also this means organisations can be rated in multiple Godfreys and therefore the larger the organisation, the larger the Godfrey reading, which explains why corporations are so stupid and slow to react.

      Which leads me to wonder what is a fatal dosage of Godfreys? How much Godfrey exposure can kill? This would also help explain why governments are so harmful to people's health and truly frightening levels of Godfrey are usually only ever attained during times of war, resulting in the deaths of potentially millions and then future generations are left to wonder what the madness of it all was for; only to, (all to often) end up suffering the same fate as their predecessors. :(

      But even to a lesser degree an exposure of anything above about 0.1 Godfrey is enough to induce considerable stress in the victim, which is potentially fatal.

      So how do we rate this government & Facebook news? We have many thousands in and behind government converging for the first time ever with 700 million people on Facebook. We could therefore be witnessing the formation of the first ever recorded Godfrey singularity of stupidity! An unprecedented event in the history of stupidity. Only time will tell what the half-life of this Godfrey singularity is, but if this continues for much longer, I fear for the survival of our species!. :(

      (Disclaimer, as you can tell, I'm only half joking, but I thought humour was better than ranting with such dismay about such a blatant and jaw dropping example of government stupidity!).

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Scarey

    It's all very well for Reg Readers (who are a self-selecting population that might be expected actually to understand something about identity management) to be unanimously opposed to the idea of using FaceBook as a trusted identity provider, but as we have seen all too often, that will be no impediment to ministers and those who brief them proposing schemes that they think will be eye-catching and show that they are "with it".

    Many such issues are FAR too important to be left in the hands of ill-informed politicians. Informed public debate is desperately needed, but the very media through which such debate might be conducted is driven by vested interests, not least selling copy and advertising.

    None of this is helped either by organisations opposing the more hare-brained proposals themselves often seeming to prefer publicity-friendly, exaggerated and sometimes also ill-informed scaremongering rather than rigorous, reasoned analysis.

    As we create an ever more complex and interconnected society, how should we decide questions that require some understanding of difficult principles?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      Oxymorons...

      "Military Intelligence", "New and Improved", "The future is now", etc, etc, "Facebook... trusted"...

      Say no more!

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Also-

        "Nobody could be that stupid..."

  25. Lghost
    WTF?

    Never have I been so glad to have left the UK over 20 years ago

    Salut! Steve..same here ;-)..it's like watching the Titanic go down, looking across the channel from France.

    1. The Fuzzy Wotnot
      Stop

      Hmmmm

      Being a self satisfied smug cretin despising all things British, just like your countrymen, seems to have well and truly rubbed off on you! At least our leaders don't just bend over the table, trousers round ankles at the first of a CEO of a media mega-corp coming in the room, like Mr Tea-Cosy or whatever your pres is called!

  26. kain preacher Silver badge

    wtf

    Ok so they are going to let a foreign based company check the identity of UK citizens . Not subject to UK laws. Look I'm an American and I love American but this is way beyond stupid. The see this borders on treason . You should always be critical of your government and hold them accountable . But how would UK citizens hold foreign government accountable ? What that guy is proposing is slowly giving away the sovereignty of UK. I take it back it does not border on treason it is treason.

    1. JohnG Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Foreign companies

      This is already going on in British embassies and consulates around the world. Passport renewals and visa applications are handled by one of two companies: Worldbridge or VFS Global. Employees of these foreign companies will collect and process the application forms and photos of British citizens renewing their passports. The situation is similar for UK visa applicants, except that their fingerprints are also taken.

      When my wife applied for a visa at the British consulate in Düsseldorf last year, we did not come into contact with any British staff, only local Worldbridge employees. Even the person conducting my wife's visa interview was German and complained that my wife spoke English and not German - in the British Consulate! I assume my wife's details (and my details that were on her UK visa application) are now stored in some database in the USA.

  27. Paul 87

    so let me get this straight

    They want to let us associate our official identity with our online persona's, thus giving cyber ctiminals even *more* reasons to steal them. Combined with the fact that these private companies are outside UK control or sovereignity and we have a receipe for disaster!

  28. Homer 1
    Big Brother

    The trouble with single sign-on systems...

    When you consolidate sensitive data like this, it makes its exposure all the more damaging, should the system subsequently be compromised.

    Imagine if Sony's network had been one authorised portal to such a service, and a custodian of the personally identifiable information necessary to access it, then consider what recently happened to its network.

    No thanks, I'll just keep my accounts and passwords unique for everything I sign up for, whilst providing as little information (or as much false information) as possible.

    What is it with the UK government and its obsession with consolidating its citizens' private data, then outsourcing it to foreign third-parties?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Our Christian Brothers

    will no doubt find a way of using this to distribute everyone's late uncle's fortunes in an equitable way.

    Once the Lads from Lagos have run a coach and horses through all this the guv will presumably be more prepared to deal with reality. In fact, the £millions OCB rob will be a bargain compared to the £billions that the standard procurement process would cost.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Will it be compatible

    with Windows for Warships?

  31. kain preacher Silver badge

    Sorry

    I got all worked up because stupidity seems to be contagious. Long time it use to be just because one country proposed some thing silly , it was not an excuse for others to follow. Now it seems like its either a me too effect or they politicians were waiting for some else to say it so they could propose it . I use to read the reg and it made me feel slightly better know that it's not only American politician doing ass backwards things. I use to get get upset when people here would jump on American for doing stupid things(like we were the only country to do so ) But now no matter the country I cry. It's like a domino affect. It matters not if its the UK or OZ or Canada or my home country . I see it all as an assault on my freedom becomes a global race to the bottom. I love my country byt things have gone so far south that I was thinking about leaving, but were can I go ?

    Ok now that I've address the political ramification lets talk about the technical ramification. Short and simple are you freakin out of your mind . This guy should be bared for any job harder than flipping burger .

    .

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    Fake Facebook IDs

    They'll drop the whole idea as soon as someone creates a fake Facebook ID for a government minister or one of their close family members and then uses it to dig some dirt on the minister in question. I guess that will be about 5 minutes after the government opens any government services to such farcebook authentication.

  33. furtherstill
    Thumb Down

    Surely, they can't be serious

    Every single thing about this idea is wrong. This Maude fellow needs to be downed by a t-shirt barrage like his more reputable namesake.

  34. The BigYin

    No.

    No, no, no, no!

    Going to let a private corporation own our legal identity? Feck that for a game of soldiers.

    My on-line identities do not equate to my legal identity nor should they IMHO. Sure, my bank can match my login to my legal-self, but I trust my bank slightly more than I trust FB. Why would somewhere that I may post picture of kittens doing somersaults have any need to equate to my legal self?

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Verification of what

    Like others, I doubt that UK Gov want Facebook for upfront ID validation.

    But using Facebook to check out benefits claims seems a no brainer.

    Claiming for incapacity when your pics show you skydiving.....etc ....etc......

    1. M Gale

      Facebook to verify benefits claims

      This happens anyway. I'd paste you a specific URL but there seem to be a ton to choose from. So, I'll give you this instead:

      http://www.google.com/search?q=benefits+cheat+facebook

      Although why stripping all of the "&client=ubuntu" extraneous crap from the URL should swap results 2 & 3 around, who knows?

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is such a preposterous idea...

    It might just happen.... A bit like the hunt for weapons of mass destruction and bankers bonuses after they've had their jobs saved by the taxpayer....

    I, truly, cannot think of a good thing to say about an idea that incorporates one of the companies I least trust to use any information provided in confidence in anything other than a profiteering and reckless manner. When the chips are down in 10 years time and Facebook has been put aside for the 'next big thing' and they turn to the Government and say, "actually, we need to make a bit more money out of this data or it will all tits up boys" What will our Government do? I've no idea and I bet the Government hasn't even thought about a 'Post Social networking' future... But it won't matter as it will be somebody else's problem ie Ours!

  37. D Moss Esq

    A Talk in the Park

    G-Cloud, Whitehall in Control [1]

    A new soap opera in the 21st century policy-making series [2]

    Episode 1 -- A Talk in the Park:

    --------------------------------------------------

    The scene: Ian Watmore sitting on a park bench, the detritus of his Bargain Lunch all around him – rabbit food sandwich, cranberry juice, choice of crisps, £4.75 – trying to work out how best to present the budget for G-Cloud to Francis Maude. Go in low at £5 billion to let Maude think it wouldn't cost so much, not when all the mythical savings are taken into account, and let it drift up? Or go in high at £15 billion to flatter Maude's importance and let it drift up from there? It's a poser. All of a sudden Mark Zuckerberg sits down next to him.

    MZ: Hello Ian.

    IW: Hello, er ..., who are you?

    MZ: Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook.

    IW: Mark, a pleasure to meet you!

    MZ: Please. It's ... Mister ... Zuckerberg.

    IW: Yes, of course. What a coincidence. I mean me being here and you being here.

    MZ: Don't be silly, Ian, we don't do coincidences, Facebook doesn't guess, it's wasteful. We know everything.

    IW: Everything?

    MZ: Yeah, like we know why the Rugby Football Union chose Woodward and not you. Can I have your potato chips, Ian?

    IW: I didn't bother to pick them up. Watching my figure.

    MZ: That's a shame, Ian. I like potato chips. If you used Facebook, you'd know that. And you'd know that I like to get what I like. Like G-Cloud.

    IW: There I'm afraid you face competition. Some stiff competition. From three start-ups.

    MZ: Yeah, right. The personal data store guys. The guys who want to connect every PDS with pipelines to every organisation, private sector and public sector. The guys who want to provide taps, so that data-sharing can be turned on or off. That competition?

    IW: Precisely. Their designs are very far advanced.

    MZ: Yeah, right. Look old chap, Facebook already has 500 million PDSs including tens of millions in the UK. Facebook already has the pipelines. Facebook already has fCommerce. You wanna start from zero or from tens of millions?

    IW: The problem is the taps, Mr Zuckerberg. You keep turning yours on and off from the centre. The users aren't in control. With the start-ups, the users would be in control.

    MZ: Yeah, right. Look, privacy is a dynamic area, you shouldn't obsess about privacy, the start-ups will work that out, it's all about saving money. And that's your job, Ian, at the Efficiency & Reform Group. At least as long as you have that job, it is.

    IW: I see what you mean, Mr Zuckerberg.

    MZ: Good. Eye to eye. Man to man. That's good, Ian. We have competition. The banks. The telcos. The credit reference agencies. But then again, we already have the banks and the telcos and the credit reference agencies. So really, we don't have competition, do we?

    IW: You're forgetting Google.

    MZ: Oh Google, yeah you're right, I'm always forgetting Google. Ian, listen to me, you know where Eric is right now?

    IW: Eric?

    MZ: Yeah, Eric Schmidt, Mr Google, Eric Shmuck as we call him, he's still waiting for you in that snack bar, by the Bargain Meals shelf. Google's artificial intelligence can do location. But they keep getting the time wrong! It's a cryin' shame. Maybe it's something to do with the guys they've got working on AI. The guys who used to work for Facebook. Ian, we got Google. We got Gmail. The Chinese keep taking the fall for hacking into it but it's not them. Ian. I'll say this once more. No competition.

    IW: I'll mention it to Francis.

    MZ: Who?

    IW: Francis Maude, Cabinet Office minister.

    MZ: Who? We only monitor decision-makers.

    IW: Mr Maude is the decision-maker. He used to be managing director of Morgan Stanley.

    MZ: Oh, that Francis. Hey, funny story for you. Morgan Stanley doesn't have a managing director. Morgan Stanley has thousands of managing directors. "Managing director" is the title they give to any interns who can speak without tripping over their frat shoelaces. You're the decision-maker, Ian, you know that, what does Francis know?

    IW: Nevertheless, this is a political matter, G-Cloud must be demonstrably a benefit to the UK economy.

    MZ: Hey Ian, funny story, the UK doesn't have an economy. Does it. The UK has a debt repayment programme. Not an economy.

    IW: That's pretty rich coming from you, the US has a trillion dollar deficit.

    MZ: Ian, who ever said Facebook is a US company? Look, it's been nice talking to you, no no don't get up, but think about our little talk will ya? That would be appreciated. Bye now.

    ----------

    1. http://dematerialisedid.com/BCSL/Control.html

    2. http://dematerialisedid.com/BCSL/Adventure.html

  38. jestersbro
    Happy

    I can't wait to put my trust in their hands

    Fantastic! The whole idea of giving some corporate entity real control over my ID is really exciting. I'm looking forward to the day the UK Gov gives all our ID data to an offshore organisation based in a nation that doesn't respect international boundaries or agreements. I'm simply limp with delight at the prospect.

    Roll on becoming citizens of CorpCo, you're friendly and trustworthy companion.

  39. Lamont Cranston
    Thumb Down

    I can't think of anything worse

    than tying up my bank login, my facebook login and any activity with public services. A big sign marked "Please rob me" affixed to my back would be just as desirable.

    If we must have a unified ID, then the National Insurance database will probably suffice (the NHS already has its own system for identifying us).

  40. Adam T
    WTF?

    Goodbye UK

    If they go ahead with this, I'm emigrating.

    This country is being run by utter fuckwits.

  41. John I'm only dancing
    FAIL

    Facebook app ID theft wants to access your list of contacts

    No more needs to be said

  42. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face

    What do Govt and Facebook have in common?

    Two organisations I want as little to do with as possible.

  43. Cam 2
    Meh

    Interesting

    There might be issues with how much the general public should trust Facebook, and whether it's morally right to use a private company to provide identity services like this when they would gain considerably from the privilege.

    Nevertheless Facebook are in a position to provide ID services because they are so large, and because they are using the technology (OpenID). I think they do have something to bring to the table.

    In an ideal world the Post Office would have made a profitable business unit from key signing, two-factor crypto and identity services starting about the same time as the relevant technologies emerged - but this hasn't happened.

  44. Sam Therapy
    Thumb Down

    Wrong in every respect

    I trust the gvt as much as I trust Facebook. Not at all.

  45. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    FAIL

    Does the British government have any idea...

    How easy it is to spoof an identity on Facebook, or to hack someone's FB account? Do they have any idea about how users of one FB account can compromise the security of another account holder based on whether they link contact data for that other person, or tag their name to photos, etc?

    Facebook is fine for chatting with friends, organizing events and showing the world your latest vacation photos, but its about as an ID verification service it is about as as sturdy as a cardboard box.

    I'm glad the Reg's "Fail" icon is not somebody's royalty-based IP, as the last few weeks I have found myself using it with alarming and otherwise expensive frequency.

  46. Munkstar

    But?

    Interesting because If the government were to ask for all of the details that Facebook cream from you, there would be a giant 'big brother' ranting!

  47. JaitcH
    WTF?

    How does "insist that privacy would be at the forefront of such a system" work with Facebook?

    Apart from the fact Facebook and security are incompatible why should I have to sign up with any non-governmental system to access my entitlements?

    Or is it a tacit admission that the UK's purported world leading cyber 'experts' can't handle secure logins?

    Making one of the early users the pensions scheme is more than nutty - these people are more likely NOT to have InterNet access as well as being MORE likely to less computer literate.

    I am fed up with people expecting myself and fellow employees to obtain FB or Twit accounts so we can learn some information. I simply refuse to use Twit and the decision about FB has been made as the government of the country I live in has blocked FB very, very effectively.

    The UK government is my government so why the hell should I use American gateways to access my UK government, gateways that the American government has total access to.

    Bet the French wouldn't do this - or the Americans - they have a sense of pride in their countries.

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