Been here for 18 months
Been used around here (Wickwar,South Glous) for about 18 months all OAP's with hi vis coats & clip boards.I make sure i salute them when i pass.
Police in Reading are today encouraging residents to join the Big Society and zap speeding neighbours with personal issue speed detection kit. The speedster who falls afoul of the personal speedguns gets two written warnings from neighbourhood police. Police may then take action on the third infraction. SPEEDNAUGHTY Be good …
It only takes the opinion of two people to get a conviction for speeding. If they stand before the Magistrates and the magistrates believe them over you then a speeding conviction is complete. The two people do not need to be police officers, just people who can be classed as able to reliably estimated the vehicle was speeding.
So if they estimate a vehicle was speeding, then confirm it with a device then the principle evidence would be the assessment, confirmed with the device.
Whether the police would report someone under these circumstances is another thing though as it would dilute their role in the enforcement of the offence.
"Hello police? ... Right ... I'd like to report some sort of maniac is hiding in the bushes outside 22 Acacia Avenue ... Well he seems to be pointing a gun at passing cars .... Well yes I suppose he could be a photographer ... Sending an armed response unit you say. OK bye now."
Let's wait for the headlines when the first "Dirty Henry" leaps out in front of a vehicle and gets flattened into the tarmac.
<-- Hasta la vista, Minnie.
So how well is this going to stand up on a legal basis?;
"So you clocked Mr Smith doing 150mph in his robin reliant"
Where you trained how to use the equipment correctly, so that you did not clock a traffic light doing 40 mph
Did you assess the radio emissions in the area, so that you did not clock a tree doing 60mph at surrey police HQ (CC trying new toy forget about the big radio masts)
Has the equipment been calibrated and correctly maintained, or has it just bounced around in the boot of your car during the week, prior to being used on saturday
Is it true that Mr.Smith fired you last week, for wasting your time at work doing stuff for your NAG
Bearing in mind the trouble proffesional police officers can get into when seriously challgened on the use of radar guns, can anybody see a few arguments that might be used in a court here, at great expenses to the tax payer when the amatuers are involved?
This is relatively old news, SpeedWatch has been operating in Staffordshire for at least two years.
Sadly this is necessary as many police forces don't seem to bother with enforcing traffic regulations away from the motorways. Many motorists, who presumably drive carefully and at reasonable speeds in their own neighbourhood, will drive through another village without bothering to slow down at all, so some deterrent is needed.
I'd be happy for all these schemes to be replaced by average speed systems to control the speed of traffic though villages.
Well, there's a confusing [propaganda] concept!
AFAIK them, they are usually a 'laws for u, not us' political army arranged in ranks of varying incompetence and malice, from which any honest characters accidentally hired are weeded out early by unnatural selection.
Maybe that is related to the fact that police [or King's Local Dragoons] never were, nor can ever become, a profession.
No, I can't see friends of the speeders being ignored, while the man from no 28 with the unkempt lawn who lets his dog piss on the daffodils gets busted for being 1mph over.
We had one of those 'smiley face/sad face' speeding things on the entrance to work's car-park. I can't honestly say i'd ever seen it give a happy face to anyone. I thought it was a reflection of my general mood in the mornings.
Firstly, I believe a fair sized chunk of people will be against the idea for various reasons ranging from finding the scheme intrusive to having strong feelings about speed cameras for whatever reason.
Let's ignore that group for a moment and focus on those who will support the scheme, and you will still have a significant number - speeding is a problem on my street and some of my neighbours are pretty passionate about it.
Can you really see people stopping the car (possibly having to find a safe place on the street to park), getting out of the car, walking up to the people taking part in the scheme and saying "thank you"?
It just sounds too contrived for me to believe.
I'm not saying people won't show support the scheme, I'm sure they will, but I don't believe an impressive number are "stopping and thanking" them.
Several people on this thread have picked up on the same quote, so I believe I am not alone.
What an excellent opportunity to challenge this unapproved use of tax payer money, and baffle them in court with technology warfare.
Run 1: attach jammer to front of car, set it to record 124Mph, set video camera on to your speed, do speed limit
Run 2: drive up to them at 3 Mph over limit, abruptly slam on brakes and stop beside them. Offer them pr0n magazine
Run 3: drive at 10% over limit
Odds are after 2 they'll be complaining, so you go to court. You produce video of event, speedo, then DEMAND to see the calibration certificate AND the training certificate for those with the camera as ACPO dictates.
When they can't produce, you file suit under EU Human RIghts Act for unfair arrest.
Guarantee this'll fuck their heads up. Of course you could just advocate open vigilanteism, but that's for others to do.....probably would work better to have a paintball gun and paint their gun eh?
Why is there this perception in the UK that you should be able to drive as fast as you want, where you want, and exceeding the speed limit is OK, and therefore that anyone who tries to enforce the speed limit is wrong?
The argument against fixed speed cameras has always been that they are purely used as income generation. Well, with the majority of these schemes, it is not about income, it's about getting people to drive safely, as it should be.
I think these schemes are a good idea, and I don't see why they would lead to "village feuds" either, if you live in a village or small town it is unlikely you would speed through it anyway. Peer pressure to get people to slow down seems to me to be a much better idea than blanket fines.
The problem is that there are lots of ways to drive dangerously without excessive speed. You can see plenty of people on the roads, talking on mobile phones, shouting at kids, gossiping, reading maps, swerving across lanes or just generally not concentrating on what they are doing. All these people get away with their dangerous driving because the “safety cameras” just check speed.
It then depends how you weigh these issues. Is the safer driver the one who occasionally hits 35 in a 30 limit or the one who drives as 20 because they are concentrating on something else?
Yes I agree, there are lots of other ways that people drive dangerously, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse to ignore speeding. Indeed, there is a case surely to have the neighbourhood watch types report drivers for these other offences too.
In answer to your question "Is the safer driver the one who occasionally hits 35 in a 30 limit or the one who drives as 20 because they are concentrating on something else?" then I would say they are equally as dangerous, for different reasons.
Because we are fed up with seeing people drive like total tw@ts on the roads, and getting away with it. But If you do 65mph in a 60, even for a good reason like overtaking, you can be penalised for it.
Speeding is an easy target. I'm not advocating doing 60mph in a 30, but doing 65 in a 60 or 80 on a fairly quite motorway isn't exactly crime of the century. But to the CPS it is, because we know its easier to prove with a radar gun that someone was speeding, than to prove that someone was just following someone 2" from thier rear bumper without many camera angles.
That scum who got found guilty of a public order offence yesterday (burning poppys on armastice day, and chanting anti British slogans) got fined £50. Yet I get caught at 74mph in a 70, and get £60 fine. Justice?...
The difference is he was being stitched up for political 'thought-crime' a.k.a. free-speech, whereas you were merely being taxed the neo-hypocritical way. Neither is just, but your DM-style-whinge fails for implying another innocent party should be more heavily penalised for not being as common as dirt.
But even if he gets 10 years in jail, you still have the same problem [or, in fact, a worse one, as you'll then be made to cough the corresponding parking-tickets for his upkeep].
Now be brave - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Sorry, can't agree with that at all. But perhaps that has something to do with me seeing literally hundreds of people who drive daily at 28-35 without causing a single accident. If they hit the top part of that range at the wrong moment, they get a fine.
The only accidents I have personally witnessed were people not concentrating on what they were doing. In two of those cases, people ended up in hospital.
Actually having an accident seems more dangerous to me than having a bit of variability in your speed.
My personal view is that the safe speed to drive at is based on the condition of the road, the vehicle, the driver and the weather, as well as the possibility of hazards.
This means that there are many occasions when the SAFE speed is actually a fraction of the number written at the side of the road. e.g. A narrow street in a residential area, with cars parked both sides, during a school holiday, is a crawl down the road exercise, as you will not see the kid until he is stood infront of your car, regardles of the 30mph signs. (*)
Conversly, if you are on a motorway, with no traffic visible in either direction, the speed you drive at is not really an issue.
What we need is less focus on speed, and more focus on dangerous driving and due care and attention. Unfortunately this has to be done with people, and not gadgets.
(*) this is not a random example, and i have seen police vehicles going down this street in these condition at more than a safe speed.
"I don't see why they would lead to "village feuds" either, if you live in a village or small town it is unlikely you would speed through it anyway. Peer pressure to get people to slow down"
You don't actually live in a village or small town, do you. Forget Ambridge, think Somalia.
The speeding thingy always has drivers up in arms, but its really quite simple, a road has a speed limit, your car is fitted with a speedometer, match the value on the speedometer with the speed limit and you don't have a problem, Simplz! Why do drivers find this so difficult?
<< Paris, as I'm sure she's been done for speeding :)
"Peer pressure to get people to slow down seems to me to be a much better idea than blanket fines."
In the early 90's this was the really effective way to reduce drink driving. Sadly this seems to have gone away now and I know a lot more people who drink drive now than did then -I'm sure the fines/penalties are probably far worse now.
Peer pressure rules.
(Note, i said i KNOW, not I have FRIENDS)
It's 3am, your on a four lane motorway cruising at 70, not doing anything wrong.
Then you hit a 50mph average speed check area. You look around, there's no head or tail lights in sight, there's certainly no workmen about, yet your forced to drop to 50.
Is there really any logic to that?
Here in Aussie land they have a system in the country towns that's needed a great deal, you see our country towns aren't like yours, there could be a 1,000klms from one town to the next, so if you are an officer positioned in a small country town everybody knows you, you know everybody, and being a social outcast in such an isolated place is a problem. What they do is, every 6 months or so they have a speed compaign using coppers from a DIFFERENT little town. They move into town for a week and go crazy booking people for speeding, illegal turns etc, and then they go back to thier own little town where they can be the beloved local copper, leaving the local copper to continue being that towns beloved local copper.
No doubt down the pub all the locals whinge to the beloved local copper about how that bloke that came for a week while he was away was right bastard and they would hate to live in a town where he was stationed. Now this system could be a boon to our country towns, in a week there would be brawls outside the local pub with tough aussie blokes threatening to glass other tough aussie blokes cause he got booked for speeding by him and....well....maybe not such a good idea.
You see you can always move the coppers around if they pick up a bit of local enmity, but if you live in that town and people get a disliking for you over your zeal to keep the bastards under the speed limit you've got nowhere to run or hide!
... Communist regimes work(ed) the same way. At least one member of the Party in every apartment block, in your pub and at your workplace (usually one you knew about, and another you didn't). Total and utter shits, every single one of them, and I cannot see why we should not vilify the "volunteers" doing this as well - after all, they all have the same cry: "It's for the good of the community!".
All you need is someone with a dislike to you and wham a speeding ticket and points.
There is no tangible evidence here, only the word of the person with the speed gun, no photographs proving who was in the car or photographic evidence of the speeding offense itself.
It's an old analogy, but does the idea of a state where other people inform on others for minor infringements of the law sound familiar?, we only need state secret police ensuring that we are all politically correct and we're there.
I suspect all the people who would volunteer for this sort of thing obey the speed limit. They will also be the ones sitting in the middle lane of the motorway at 60mph and don't tend to bother with indicators.
The trouble is when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, and when all you can measure is speed, then every problem is speed related.
More often than not "pointless" speed limits in rural areas are due to unseen risks. Case in point: Ilkley Moor Road where it goes into Burley Woodhead had a 20 limit slapped on it a few years back. Cue lots of outrage from not quite local people who use the road about it being pointless and not required, nanny state etc. etc. The thing is the reason that it was put in was due to a couple of the houses up there having had cars crash into their front rooms (more than once in one case) over the previous five years.
Odd speed limits are usually there for a reason, just because you can't see why doesn't mean that it's pointless, it usually means that you're not a traffic engineer.
And were the people who crashed just a bit over the previous speed limit, or were they ignoring it completely? Reducing the limit to 20 will piss off a lot of law abiding people, but make no difference to those who ignore them in the first place.
What do they do when the next boy racer lands in someone’s lounge? Reduce the limit to 10? To 5?
The road was a national speed limit, one of those roads where doing national speed limit is possible, sensible (and bloody good fun) at points, at others you're enclosed in and right next to houses, it's very narrow, there is no pavement and it's windy. The 20 limit is in the narrow windy area where it turns out, lots of people couldn't make sensible decisions about their own speed and safety of themselfs and others, so speeds were enforced. If you were doing the 60mph speed limit in the now 20mph area, you were being seriously irrisponsible.
I know the road well, but I haven't driven there for 10 or more years and not regularly for over 20.
The question is, will 20 get you anything that 30 and common sense wont? Or even the 60 limit and some very big SLOW signs? The road is not inherently more dangerous than any of the other narrow stone walled roads in Yorkshire.
"More often than not "pointless" speed limits in rural areas are due to unseen risks. "
Yes, of course, that's why the last Government wanted to introduce a blanket 50mph limit on *ALL* rural roads no matter what.
And, no, I'm not a traffic engineer, but I am an IAM Member so I can spot hazards where they exist and, more importantly, see where they don't exist.
You may be an IAM, but due to the extra skill level that you have you should be able to realise that most people aren't as good as you, that being the point of the IAM. Do you think that the speed limit should be set for advanced motorists, or average motorists, maybe even less than average motorists?
Of course, as many commentards have pointed out, the system is open to abuse; but to do that you would have to, if your victim chooses, commit perjury in a court of law. The maximum penalty for this 7 years in prison, so the risk is probably not worth it for most sensible people.
I'm slightly alarmed at the negative comments here, it seems that any enforcement of laws you don't agree with, and are likely to break, is immediately an attempt at setting up a police state!
Speeding is a very petty offence, which most of us commit on a daily basis (myself included), but speeding where people (and their children/cats/dogs etc.) live is very anti social and unnecessary.
Many people who speed are premeditated speeders, they set off on a journey knowing they haven't enough time to complete it if they drive within the speed limits; but their own time is more important than other people's safety.
There are also speeders who just seem to be oblivious to all speed limits; I'm forever stuck behind twats who drive along the 60mph road to the village where I live at 45mph, then continue to drive at 45mph when the speed limit changes to 30mph and race off into the distance.
Whatever the reason for speeding, the only system that actually forces people to obey is average speed cameras because it virtually guarantees conviction if you don't comply.
You could, if they did it in public, I suppose. The thing is that when you're speeding in a car it's not private in any way, you are showing everyone that you're doing it.
If I saw someone shop lifting, I suspect I'd grass them up. If I saw a fight in the street, I'd call the police. If I saw someone doing graffiti I'd also call the police etc. etc.
As I've said here before, I am as honest and law-abiding person as most others, but there is nothing that would get me to report anything directly to the police that does not have immediate impact on me (and I mean that in the sense of having to get a crime number for the purposes of insurance). The police are at best useless, and at worse likely to investigate the reporter. However, I would use Crimestoppers for an offence against the person.
Let the downvotes and the "my family are all in the force and are lovely" comments begin ...
... there's nothing wrong with persistently standing between them and oncoming traffic holding up a large placard in front of the hair-dryer, as there's no law [yet] against 'obstructing a vigilante in the course of his duties' ~ good luck and I look forward to the YT video evidence of great justice!
Given that speed is not a contributory factor in nearly all RTC's are not these radar wagglers basically wasting their time, and if they really wanted to make a difference, perhaps researching the main causes of RTC's and acting to prevent those would be more helpful.
Oh wait, that doesn't get into the media.
That these people are not going to be properly trained or checked on and the equipment not maintanined and accurate records kept...
Also as a biker who knows full well these things just don't work on bikes I'd be MORE than a little annoyed if I started getting letters from these twats accusing me of speeding when I'm not.
First offence - a letter. Second offence - a letter.Third offence - Police escalation - didn't say whether that would be court or not - in fact I would expect Police escalation to mean they then do their own speed checks. That would make any resulting fine more solid in court. Or perhaps they just pop round to the offender and give them a few hints about their driving.
I think this is an acceptable idea. Any number of times I have stood in my front garden on my 40mph (but should be 30)built up village road, with cars and lorries blasting past at >50 and wished I had some way of reporting these people because this road often has children walking along it to school or to the park. Hankin's lorries are the worst BTW, if anyone is listening.
Speeding is a contentious issue and for 99.99999999999% of the time you are just breaking the law. But it only takes that 0.00000000001% to knock down or kill a child. Being a child, you have to do their thinking for them sometimes.
I live in a small village with a 20mph past the village school. But as the road is a commute through it gets ignored by virtually everyone. Now if it was you in those circumstances and your child was knocked down, where would your argument be at that time, where would you like to string the speeding driver up to and what by?
I wish more cars came with the driver set speed limiters. I’ve had one on a couple of cars now and as soon as I enter a 30mph zone, bang on it goes. That way you can concentrate on the road and not on the speedo. Job done.
"The most impressive aspect was the number of motorists who supported the campaign by stopping and thanking those taking part in the initiative."
I am on a busy journey, some guy is pointing a device at me. I am going to pull over in a busy road, inerput my journey to shake the guys hand
Which bit of PR bullshit is this. Did the guys organise to have his granny drive by and pull over to thank him
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