Have MSc, can install codecs.
"It's by the people who maintain it, plus thousands of upstream contributors, for convenient consumption by those people and those who agree with what they are doing and/or how they do it, or at least those who don't see the need to complain about what they are doing."
Yes, and Windows is by the people who make it (people who maintain it), for the people who use it (those who agree with what they are doing). What is your point? Stop defending a fatuous sound bite. Your sacred fucking cow is not under attack.
Please, explain, how Debian are so very qualitatively different from all other organisations in the world. How are they 'by the people, for the people' where no-one else is? Please explain that, and forget all your other dribblings, as that is all I'm arguing against.
"Well, yeah: I don't think I ever said it was 'for the people' as in yielding to the whims of the popular masses. But then, the popular masses can take Debian's work and take it further, if they aren't too busy watching television, of course."
So you're the OP with the fatuous soundbite. Why all AC'ed up now? Unless, you're not the OP, in which case, why the fuck are you still trying to defend his/her stupid remark? The sheer fucking pointlessness of having a conversation as AC.
'By the people, for the people' is a slogan with a meaning, and you've misappropriated it, and been called on it. Accept it and move on.
"No, you were just adding your own 'observation' that some form of The Man steers Debian, which may appear to be the case, but the organisation would appear to be mostly transparent and encourage more widespread participation than with certain other distributions."
The Man? That's your invention. Men and women, yes. Flawed men and women, yes. The same flawed men and women that run any other organisation. You debianistas aren't saints. Get over yourselves, and stop trying to set yourself apart as better than the rest of us.
The UK is more transparent than Libya. Is it by the people for the people? No. I keep using this word 'qualitatively'. Please, please, please, please look it up.
"You stamp your foot,"
I don't like Debian, I don't use Debian. How is that stamping my foot?
"presumably at Debian not giving you 'the codecs' in the default install,"
Nice try. I can get it together to install some codecs. I don't want a conservative distro. Can you wrap your mind around that? I have a different set of values from you. Can you wrap your mind around that?
I see the latest release is still using Open Office. I have considerably more of a problem with Oracle than any fucking codec legality bitchfest. I'd've thought Debian would too. Guess their principles are more mutable than you'ld have us believe.
"but there are plenty of people who will still want Debian stuff, not least the downstream distributions who give you 'the codecs'."
There are more people like me in the world than you. So, again, how is it 'for the people'?
"If you want to change the way things are done, you step up and make the case. Meanwhile, if you want to change the way those commercial entities do things, you have to get hired by them. And Microsoft and Apple are not likely to be amused by any attempts to roll your own versions of their products."
So in both instances, I have to appeal to a select few indiviuals and be accepted by them, in order to make changes. Again, what is the difference qualitatively?
"Yes, why not split hairs about whether we're talking about values or principles?"
Different words, with different meanings that result in different internal pyschological states and different real world actions. Not splitting hairs. It's kind of ironic how many people here rail against "soft" degrees.
Take a petrol can. Use all the petrol. Is it now 'empty'? Think very carefully, your life may depend on it.
Can't be arsed with this any more. Un-AC yourself, or shut up.