back to article Microsoft has shifted 1.5 million Windows phones

Microsoft has been telling the world that it's shifted 1.5m Windows Phone 7 handsets, though what proportion have arrived into the sweaty palms of users we don't know. The number comes from Achim Berg, VP of marketing for the platform, who let it slip during a hard-hitting interview with his own PR department. But it's the …

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  1. moonoi
    Thumb Up

    Sold out on launch in Thailand

    I took a look at the HD7 that was launched last weekend here in Thailand. Pretty impressed with it and will certainly give WP7 a look when my iPhone 4 is in need of replacement. I was even more suprised by the level of interest shown in it, at the DTAC (Thai network launching WP7 in Thailand) store in Bangkoks Siam Paragon Centre, I actually had to queue to take a look at it. Then I read in the local paper today that the initial batch of HTC HD7 devices had sold out already!

    More info on the Thai WP7 launch here:

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/technews/212536/ms-re-claims-lead-with-hd7-phone

  2. ElNumbre

    Not a failure?

    You can't say it has been failure, nor a success either until you know how many are deployed to end users. The trouble with WinPhone7 is that they're currently expensive AND incompatible with Microsoft Enterprise software, so corporates are sticking with 6.5/Crackberry OR migrating to iDroid. Plus, with the cost cutting deals being done on the Android platform, personal buyers are either going to the gPhones (even with its platform fragmentation which most users don't care about) or buying the 'cool' iProducts.

    What is Microsoft's USP for wp7?

    1. Tzael

      Re: Not a failure?

      Expensive? Nope, can pick up a WP7 phone as part of a £25pm contract. Expensive is a £35pm contract and having to pay for the phone on top. How much did your iPhone cost you, please include the cost of the contract as well as the cost of the phone itself ;-)

      Incompatible with Microsoft enterprise software? Perfect synchronisation with Outlook and Sharepoint for starters, with seamless Exchange integration. Apps can communicate directly with instances of MS SQL Server. What other Microsoft enterprise software do you feel the vast majority of consumers need their phone to interact with?

      If you need to ask what Microsoft's unique selling point is then maybe it's worth you going to your local mobile phone store and testing out a WP7 device? You're not going to do that though are you? Well for what it's worth the 2 unique selling points of WP7 (imo) are the seamlesss desktop integration and the availability of Zune Pass, an "as much as you can eat" style of music service. I understand not all regions have the Zune Pass option so as a back-up selling point it has to be the "in-got what I need-out" usage of the phone.

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        indeed

        but droids can be had for much less with similar functionality.

      2. Dave 15

        and...

        I bet you could still get, or write, a wikileaks application without some S Jobs towing the current US anti leaks line

      3. ElNumbre
        Megaphone

        I stand corrected...

        I stand corrected, seems like Exchange is *more or less, sort of* supported now if you're running Exch2003 SP2, and *pretty much supported" on 2007+. I particularly like the "Why All These Missing Enterprise Features?" section of the technet article which, to paraphrase, says this is a consumer device, but we're trying to build patches to add missing functionality for the enterprise.

        And for reference, I'm running a WinMo 6.5 device and an Android device. Zune Pass isn't unique. I use Spotify on both devices for just £1 more per month vs Zune Pass, and I understand Pandora offers similar functionality. I can get anything I want on either phone using its USB connection (ActiveSync on WinMo, USB storage device on both), its removable storage, bluetooth on WinMo and Chrome2Phone on my Droid. So, that's pretty much covered off in getting things too/from the desktop.

    2. Giles Jones Gold badge

      USP

      The USP (compared to Android) was that the OS is updated by Microsoft. Which seemed to stop OEMs from forcing hardware upgrades by not providing OS upgrades.

      But Microsoft have seemed to backtrack a little on that by allowing OEMs to veto upgrades.

      1. pan2008

        where?

        Where is the link that microsoft backtracked? All updates happen through zune, so unless Orange can somehow get hold of my PC and do something to it, i will get the update/ upgrade?

        1. JW 1
          Linux

          You need zune to update?

          Huge reason to go with Android - I don't need a computer to update my phone's system. Can't run iTunes or Zune on Linux and wouldn't even if I used Windows.

          What a pile.

          J

    3. Paul Shirley

      so called fragmentation is an Android strength

      ElNumber:"even with its platform fragmentation which most users don't care about"

      You understate, users actively want that 'fragmentation' because in reality fragmentation is little more than offering users choices. Lazy developers bitch about having to deal with different devices but frankly its not that hard and the user is king. And yes, I'm skipping over the mess carriers are making with their sodding OS overlays - they will go away when users get smart enough.

      If users wanted to all use the same clone they'd already have an iPhone. I like having the option to run a tiny phone that fits comfortably in a pocket or a whopping great slab, with the same OS and mostly the same software (where dev's could be arsed testing it).

      What Microsoft have done is removed the fragmentation, removing user choice with it. So they're explicitly fighting for Apples market and ignoring one of the strengths of Android, the variety of devices on offer. Don't see it ending well for Microsoft.

      When Microsoft finally cave in and allow more variety in devices dev's will really see how much pain fragmentation can cause if dealing with it isn't built in from day 1.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Microsoft has shifted 1.5 million Windows phones

    That's an aweful lot of dustbins.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    iPhone

    "...would no-doubt have stolen the market if Apple hadn't already staked out such a significant claim..."

    That's just complete bullshit. If MS hadn't been chasing/copying iPhone, who knows what Windows 7 phone would have been like. let's face it, if they hadn't had apple to copy on PCs we'd probably still be using green screen terminals.

    1. Dave 15

      would that be bad?

      Well obviously web porn wouldn't be so pretty but the text apps should run quite a lot faster without all the poncy screen graphics.

      1. Admiral Grace Hopper
        Heart

        would that be bad?

        Quite so. It's all very pretty, but for most of what we do day-to-day the bit-mapped interface is overkill. I can't help thinking that we took a wrong turn somewhere every time I watch Alien again and start to hanker after an 80-column 24/25 line green phosphescent display.

  5. gerdesj Silver badge

    I hope they make it

    I actually hope Win 7 mobile does get a reasonable share of the market.

    MS have demonstrated rather nicely on the desktop what happens when there is a single vendor monopoly.

    I'd much rather see a world with Android, WIn7 mob n iThingie competing and therefore having to actually innovate.

    If Android takes over the world it will be a poor place to live in.

    1. Giles Jones Gold badge

      LOL

      "MS have demonstrated rather nicely on the desktop what happens when there is a single vendor monopoly."

      What's that then? lack of innovation and resting on laurels?

      All the big rethinks and innovation in Windows only happened when OSX appeared.

      Microsoft even copied what Apple did for Snow Leopard (optimise and cut the bloat) by releasing 7 as an optimised and tweaked Vista.

      1. IsJustabloke

        I refuse to enoble a simple forum post....

        you sir, have completely missed the point this chap was making.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        That's what that is then

        "MS have demonstrated rather nicely on the desktop what happens when there is a single vendor monopoly."

        The OP is pouring scorn on monoculture. How was that not obvious? Context alone should have indicated his intention, eg. "reasonable share" and "I'd much rather see [...] competing".

  6. James 12
    FAIL

    Just a few things to sort out

    Our company recently decided to get one of each phone platform. My IT manager now has a Win7 phone (I had the android) and he cant connect his to our MS exchange server for push emails, all because our usernames have spaces in them....

    The BB, iPhones, Androids and even the smart phone wannabe Nokia's all connect just fine and get push emails...

    LOL

    1. Tzael

      Re: Just a few things to sort out

      Hate to point out the obvious but email addresses can't contain spaces. When you enter your Exchange login details on a WP7 device you are prompted for your email address, password, and if no Exchange domain is automatically discovered on the local network then it will also prompt you for the domain name.

      Maybe your IT manager is trying to type in their Active Directory username (i.e. domain\username) despite the text box on the phone specifically asking for an email address?

      Anyhow thanks for giving me a chuckle, I honestly don't know why your IT manager could get it so badly wrong given what's written on the phone's screen during the process of adding an Exchange account - maybe you should get him a guest part in the BOFH chronicles? ;-)

      http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-gb/howto/wp7/people/set-up-an-email-account.aspx

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Hate To Point Out The STANDARDS

        But RFC5322 clearly explains spaces and many other ASCII characters *are* allowed in e-mail addresses.

        MS drone, meet fact.

        1. Tzael

          Re: Hate To Point Out The STANDARDS

          I recommend you go read sections 3.4 and 3.4.1 of RFC5322. According to the very specification you have cited email addresses should not contain spaces.

          If you're determined to push forward your claim, care to point out a) an existing email address that contains a space; and b) a widely deployed SMTP server solution that actively supports spaces in email addresses.

          Anti-MS troll, meet reality.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            WTF?

            I Recommend You Read

            The part about quoted strings... "ms drone"@microsoft.com is a valid address according to the very RFC you blindly refute! Perhaps your selective choice of software/hardware vendor mirrors your selective version of reality?

            Did I say it was a good idea or widely supported? No. I said it was in the standards.

            MS drone, meet pwned.

            1. Tzael
              FAIL

              Re: I Recommend You Read

              Nice try, firstly the section describing quoted strings (3.2.4) pertains to subject, header and body content, not email addresses. Secondly the quotation marks are used to encapsulate special characters such as backslash and others that will interfere with header structure. You telling me that email addresses can contain backslashes (as described in the quoted strings section) now?

              You couldn't come up with a valid and widespread implementation of SMTP server that supports spaces in email addresses, you haven't been able to specifically quote a section of RFC5322 that backs up your claim, and you haven't provided a valid example of an active email address that contains a space.

              Anti-MS troll, please step away from the bullshit! Mind you, with the smell of all that BS I now understand why you're hiding behind the AC moniker :P

    2. Kay Burley ate my hamster
      Alert

      Spaces!

      Hahaha, who the hell puts spaces in usernames? Serves him right the numptie!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Yeah Right

    Is that because they gave a free W7 phone with every packet of cornflakes.

  8. Mike Brown
    FAIL

    irrelevent

    in todays mobile landscape, winmo is irrelevent. everyone has an apple, or android, or nokia, or isnt intrested in smartphones. the only people intrested are Microsoft fanboys, and aprt from the xbox variety (which havnt been buying this phone) they are a dying breed, much like the company itself.

    as you said if it wasnt for apple (and id expand this to android too) this platform would be reveloutionary. unfortuanitly MS arnt so much as late to the party, as turned up in the wrong dress, and had to go home and change.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      wow

      so clueless. There are plenty of corporations, schools, hospitals all using winmo still. because one wm6.5 will work with an infrastructure designed around a different wm6.5 phone. Odd as it seems, android is far too fragmented, 1.6 phones are still around, not all are upgradable, some 2.2 bluetooth stacks are not compliant with other 2.2 bluetooth stacks.

      however, it is wm6.5 cumbersome OS that is its saving grace - all the APIs are accessible from different phones. If WM7 had more control then this would have been a resounding winner.

    2. Kay Burley ate my hamster
      Stop

      Not true

      Your views are those of a consumer. We have 300 WinMo's running custom apps, all of which would be recompiled for WinPho but for the fact you can't install your own easily. So we are moving to Android.

      1. Goat Jam

        I will see your 300

        and raise you to 400.

        However, WinMo is such a sodding nightmare that our phone guys are planning to ditch the lot as soon as the MC75's reach a book value of 0.

        12 Months to go.

  9. Ivor
    Paris Hilton

    "Shipped"

    Isn't "number shipped by manufacturers" effectively simply the number that have been manufactured and sent to stock?

    i.e. phone manufacturers aren't the ones actually retailing mobile phones? How many do you need to manufacture just to ship and stock up retailers worldwide?

  10. SilverWave
    Alert

    So is that 100,000 or 1,000,000 Activated?

    Because it looks more the smaller end of the range or they would not be so shy.

  11. pan2008

    not bad

    So it's not just few thousand or few 200k as fanbois suggested for the past few weeks. That compares well to the android that took 6 months for 1 million. The os is excellent and naturally will succeed. If the advertising was more in tune, just show how the phone operates that figure would be higher.

    1. Don S.

      Title, we don't need no stinkin' title.

      Read the article again, it's 1.5 million phones shipped, not sold. For all anyone knows there could be 1.49 million sitting in carrier warehouses (though I doubt it).

      What are the SALES figures Microsoft? Better then the Kin I hope.

  12. KjetilS
    Coat

    Shifted..

    "Microsoft has shifted 1.5 million Windows phones" - I first read this as "Microsoft has shafted 1.5 million phones".

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Don't knock it!

    I believe Apple (spit!) do the same thing with these numbers.

    1. Paul Bruneau
      FAIL

      except...

      Except that for Apple the "shifted" number is the same as the "activated" number, because they are actually _selling_

      1. Dave 15

        so...

        So I can only by an apple phone direct from apple, can't get one anywhere else? no one else has any stock?

        interesting...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Coffee/keyboard

    Typo

    It actually meant to read "Microsoft has shafted 1.5 million Windows phones" but the cut and paste wasn't working properly.

  15. Hi Wreck
    Grenade

    Get a Free WP7 phone with an XBOX 360

    Er, other way around... Telus (in the Queen's colony of Canada) is advertising a "FREE XBOX 360", provided, bien sur, that you "buy" a WP7 on contract. Talk about a loss leader.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sucks and is doomed to fail

    See title.

    Microsoft are an irrelevant joke in the mobile OS space; not even Xbots are dumb enough to buy this trash.

    (Disclaimer - this post is an experiment to see if the habit of downvoting anything positive said about WinPho7 is applicable in reverse).

    1. Dave 15

      irrelevant?

      Nah, sorry, no. Given that I work for the competition I am allowed that without being accused of being a Microsoft nutter. The software isn't actually bad, the development environment is good and I've used various smartphones for a number of years.

      Shifting that number of any smart phone is not an irrelevance even if it doesn't make them the biggest in the market.

      There seem to be many people who really just like to knock one company or another (depending if you are any MS or anti Apple) without the benefit of checking the merits of the devices.

      1. Goat Jam

        Titus McTitle

        'Shifting that number of any smart phone is not an irrelevance"

        Well, perhaps, it depends on where they are shifting thme yo does it not?

        If they are just channel stuffing, as they have been known to do in the past, then it is pretty much just an irrelevance.

      2. Doug Glass
        Go

        Yeah ...

        ... children and fanatics do that dontcha know.

  17. cccccccccccc
    Thumb Down

    yea, right.

    They give out phone to every employee within the co, they also pitch the phone to their partners, contractors, etc.

    My GF is pitched the phone. Guess what ? She has her iPhone, but has to use the WP7.

    So, I guess the numbers are so that they are shy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That old chestnut...

      I don't know where this "everyone in MS has been given a Win Phone" thing comes from but I know several people who work for MS in the UK (five or six, all in different business units) and none of them have free Win Phones, some have bought their own though.

    2. Tzael

      Re: yea, right.

      Your girlfriend must be very special. Tell her that the rest of Microsoft outside the WP7 department are waiting for their new phones still!

      See, one little story ends up in the media and gets blown out of proportion, before you know it everyone starts thinking that 89,000 Microsoft employees all have their own WP7 device. It's simply not true!

  18. /dev/me
    Coat

    "at least half a billion dollars on promoting the platform"

    :shock:

    Thats $500m and oversimplifying the equation: $500m / 1.5m telephones, that's $333.33 per telephone sold. Even if we assume they sell 15m per mid 2011, that's still a marketing budget $33.33 per telephone sold.

    Makes one wonder how many they expect to sell, before these margins become reasonable (or for that matter; profitable).

  19. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  20. Peter Methven

    135,000 were given away though...

    I seem to recall that MS gave a WinMo7 phone to every employee, they have around 135,000 staff worldwide...

    Also when you consider all the IT departments in the world who have got one, to evaluate whether to upgrade to WinMo7 and all the developers who have bought one to test with the 1.5 million manufactured number may not really mean a lot.

    I'd be interested in the number SOLD to end users in a given month for each of the major mobile phone operating systems to see whether WinMo7 is really of interest to mobile phone users.

    1. Tzael

      Re: 135,000 were given away though...

      There was a claim made that eventually all Microsoft employees would be given a WP7 device. Go speak to Microsoft employees, you'll get a very different picture about the number of employees who have actually received a WP7 device for themselves.

      Oh and it wasn't 135,000 that was claimed to be given away, it wasn't even the 89,000 that was associated with the original press reports of the claim. The 89,000 was based upon number of employees, where'd you pluck 135,000 from?

  21. Peter 39

    wrong body in the coffin

    I remember the Microsoft Funeral Parade

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/microsoft-celebrates-windows-phone-7-rtm-with-funeral-parade-for/

    If MS has only moved 1.5 MM since launch, and most of those are still in the channel, it seems that they had the wrong body in the coffin.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    No thanks

    A friend of mine got the Surround for free, from somebody who works at MS. Short story, after 4 weeks of frustration he returned it and spent $600 on an Android phone - that tells you all you need to know about WM7.

    1. MS Rocks

      and in other believable stories....

      a friend of mine was given 7 solid gold androaid phones by google. After 3 days of using them, he became depressed and developed an alchohol habit. And all his friends laughed at him for owning crappy android phones. So he threw them in the river and bought a WinPhone 7 for $100,000. He now has lots more friends and is married to a supermodel. So there.

      1. Flybert
        Jobs Horns

        @MSRocks

        You forgot your icon Steve .. but nice salesmanship !

      2. Magnus_Pym

        I heard about...

        ..a friend of a friend who was given an iPhone and as soon as he switched it on his head exploded. When he was buried a good witch put a Nokia N8 in the coffin and a beautiful tree grew from his grave. A single apple was borne on it's slender branches. When a beautiful maiden plucked the fruit it was magically transformed into the guy, reborn. She was princess and she immediately married him and he became the king and lived happily ever after and his Nokia always brought him and his family good luck (as well as free sat nav).

    2. Generic_Web_Guy
      WTF?

      Eh?

      No it doesn't. Your friend might be a tit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Eh?

        @Generic_Web_Guy: actually it does, he's an experienced developer in embedded devices. WM7, in its current iteration, is half-baked (at best) and not fit for purpose.

        1. Tzael

          Re: Eh?

          @AC replying to Generic_Web_Guy...

          You can recognise a fellow Anonymous Coward poster? Pray tell how do you see who is behind the AC name tag? Could you actually be the previous AC poster and in fact are referring to yourself in the third person to give more credibility to the claim?

          Would love to see some actual substance to this claim that WP7 (WM7 is something else matey) is half-baked from a developer perspective. Get the feeling it's just hot air though, with no real substance to back the claim up.

  23. joe 14
    Thumb Up

    Hate MS.... Spit but.

    After playing with WinMo for a bit at Future Shop I like it. Lighting strike me down, MS has something that is different, fun and easy to use. I will go and play with it again just to be sure i didn't eat some "bad" mushrooms at dinner. LOL Coming from the anti-Microsoft camp I have a hard time choking up that they might be better for me than an Iphone and Droid phone which i've have had.

    Flip'in thing is fast!

    Strange days......

  24. Wile E. Veteran
    Go

    I'll stick with my BlackBerry

    I trust Google the least of any of the companies: there's got to be something in Android collecting information about me and sending it to the Chocolate Factory to enatble"targeted" advertising. Scratch Android.

    I can''t stand Comrade Jobs' closed world run by the Central Directorate. Scratch fruit.

    Microsoft is dead, they just don't know it yet. The WinMo 6.1 HTC phone I had got turned in the first day I could do so without contract penalty. Forget them.

    Latest phone is a BlackBerry 3330,bottom-of-the-line unit that Just Works, does everything I need it to do, hooks up fine with both my 3 IMAP 4 accounts and my ""throw-away" hotmail account. So it doesn't fart, so what? Does sync with Outlook Contacts and Calendar rather well. I think I'll keep it until I have an actual *reason* to get rid of it.

  25. Niels 2
    Alert

    all I can tell is that the phone shops are pushing Windows Phone hard

    I keep having trouble with my iPhone's wifi working, yet not working, so I went to several stores to check out some HTC Android phones.

    in every single store, the Store Clerks were quick to point out how Windows Phone 7 is so much easier and better, and how "facebook" is fully integrated..

    Even when I told them how I don't use Facebook, and if I did, I wouldn't like how Windows Phone 7 mixes all your random online contacts from Facebook with your normal address book, they wouldn't relent.

    Even straightforward remarks that the phone had to have Android or I wouldn't be interested, didn't cause abatement of the Windows Phone revelry

    I can come to only one conclusion: either a lot of money is being passed through the channel to push this phone OS, or Carriers would just be much happier with another walled garden approach from Microsoft, than the unbounded, pretty much borderless system from Google.

    Sure, if you get a google phone, you'll probably end up with a gmail account, google maps and a few other free google goodies... But they sure aren't taking any steps to stop you from going somewhere else and doing whatever you want with it.

    Since I just lost interest in my iPhone, because it wastes too much of my time, forcing me to fight Steve Jobs' annoying restrictions every step of the way, I'm sure not gonna buy into Steve Ballmer's walled ghetto now...

    I don't know if Microsoft is going to leave some open doors in their great wall unlike Apple, in order to take the middle ground between iOS and Android.

    But I sure don't feel like spending my money first and later finding out Microsoft's phone is just as locked down as Apple's system.

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