back to article School caretaker harassed after Islamists hack EDL

A school received hatemail targeting its caretaker after he was wrongly identified as a fascist by opponents of the English Defence League, based on data stolen by an Islamist hacking group. The headmaster of the comprehensive school in Dorset, which The Register has agreed not to name, summoned the caretaker to his office …

COMMENTS

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm concerned...

    I don't agree with the EDL's concerns. However, I'm concerned that someone could loose their job for supporting a political party. Free speech and all that.

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

      Re free speech

      ...and free to be sacked as your employer sees fit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re free speech

        Re: Evil Auditor

        Yeah I agree. Employers should be able to sack their workers whenever they want. Never mind all those employment protection laws enacted over the last 100+ years. Lets get rid of the unions while we are at it. After all if employers can sack workers whenever they see fit then the unions no longer fulfill a purpose.

        /sarc

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Troll

          Thats.

          Thank you for your fantastic support for our new policies! rest assured that those dastardly trade unions will be put in their place so we can spend more time drinking pimms! and spending their money.

          Tell me, do you mind if we cite your post as "A groundswell of support?" Mr Sarc?

          DavidC

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        RE: Re free speech

        Or not, in this case, as the man's employer seems capable of rational thought, unlike some self-righteous morons I couldn't care to mention.

      3. Ted Treen
        Flame

        Oh yeah?

        try sacking an Islamist for extremist views and see how far you'd get...

        Harriet Harthingy/The Grauniad/The BBC would have you pilloried faster than Jacqui Smith could pocket a taxpayer's quid...

      4. twostellas

        yeah sure...

        And then he can ge ton the dole!! Yay!

    2. Alastair Dodd 1
      Big Brother

      what free speech?

      we have no laws supporting it AT ALL.

      there is no Uk consitution and actually bugger all rights when it comes down to it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Constitution

        Why the hell would we have a constitution? We have a long history of law dating back to the 1200s. This country was forged not proclaimed.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Actually we do...

        ...it's called the Human Rights Act. Often derided by the Daily Wail , but can be very useful in other cases. Try these for starters.

        •the right not to be punished for something that wasn't a crime when you did it

        •the right to respect for private and family life

        •freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs

        •freedom of expression

        •freedom of assembly and association

        1. peter_dtm
          Pirate

          all

          covered by our written constitution - the 1689 Bill of Rights

          we don't need the EU humbug - just enforcement of the Bill of Rights

    3. ThomH Silver badge

      Speech isn't really the issue

      You're free to do or say whatever you want, but the state will intervene if you commit a crime. In this case I think the anti-EDF sentiment is likely more justified by their history of violent marches surrounded by a litany of other public order offences, including direct attacks on police. Wikipedia seems to list 19 in the last 16 months.

      1. kissingthecarpet
        Headmaster

        I know EDF can send out some big gas bills

        but I didn't know they went in for violent marches. Why are they attacking the filth? Have they not paid their leccy bill?

        1. ThomH Silver badge

          @kissingthecarpet, anonymous coward

          It's not newsworthy, but I think this sort of thing is why I'm not currently employed in a school...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        I don't like EDF much either

        but I do buy their Electricity.

    4. twostellas

      Tow the line...

      Better tow the line, ya see? Islam is a religion of peace and if you say it's not you will pay. Dearly! Either the Islamists will issue your punishment or your government will.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yeah, because all Muslims are the same.

        No variation. If you're a Muslim you issue fatwas, burn poppies and eat swans. What? Oh sorry, I have difficulty keeping my right wing stereotypes straight.

      2. Garve Scott-Lodge
        FAIL

        Toe the line....

        ...it's toe the line.

      3. Chris Parsons

        It baffles me

        Why anyone would vote down your post. After all, what you say is undeniably true.

    5. mike2R
      Thumb Down

      political party?

      While I don't approve of vigilantes for the reasons highlighted by this article, the EDL is a particularly unpleasant organisation.

      They aren't a political party, they are a street army. Formed from groups of organised football hooligans, and recruiting similar individuals. They would have done very well in the SA in the Germany of the early thirties.

      1. Chris Parsons

        Couldn't agree more

        ...but this is what happens when successive governments make it more and more obvious that if you're white and middle-class, especially if you're male, you're the bottom of the pile.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Alert

          Re: Couldn't Agree More

          Ok. I am a white, middle-class male. As a group, we are the richest, have best access and results in education, white middle-class men and women have the best access and outcomes in health-care. White middle-class males are massively disproportionately represented in A) the boards of companies B) politics C) science D) law E) banking... I could go on. Pretty much everywhere.

          I am never turned away from establishments because of my colour. I am never not listened to because of my gender. I am never made to feel unwelcome because of my religion (or lack of it). These things still happen - ask a women, a black person, a disabled person or a Muslim (helps if you know some...).

          Bottom of the pile? No. No we are not. Statistics prove things are still heavily weighted in our favour.

          If you believe that we are at the bottom of the pile, it is because believing you're a victim of circumstance (rather than you're own inadequacy) is what makes you feel better about the crap bits in your life that you, yes, you, really should sort out.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Political Party?

      The EDL aren't a political party and don't even have a membership. They are a bunch of racist football hooligan thugs who don't mind hijacking things like the Royal British Legion poppy appeal to make money for themselves.

  2. Andrew Martin 1
    Unhappy

    sad day

    The man said: "However given the nature of my employment with children allegations like this could have cost me my job and my family their home."

    We used to believe in being innocent until proven guilty in this country. We used to believe in the rule of law. We used to believe in due process. All of these have been eroded so that all too often the innocent suffer along with the guilty. The man may be a numptie; there's no law against that. Even if he were a member of a perfectly legal - if objectionable - organisation that would be no reason for him to be in fear of loosing his job and home, either.

    1. Bassey

      Re: Sad Day

      You admit that the guy is a bit of a numptie but you are perfectly willing to accept his word that it might have cost him his job? There is no suggestion from the school that his job was under threat. As far as you can tell from the article the headmaster was merely warning him that some violent nutters were making threats against his wife and his family.

      But hey, why let facts stop a good old fashioned rant? You know, it used to be that people exercised a bit of common sense and gave others the benefit of the doubt before mouthing off....

      Oops, sorry.

      1. Andrew Martin 1

        touché

        Fair point.

        But certain parts of the media *do* like a hue and cry these days, and do tend to instil fear in the innocent as well as the guilty.

  3. PK
    Alert

    So if he had been a member...

    ...sounds like it would have perfectly OK to be hounded out of a job on the demand of an anonymous hacker? Mob rules .UK!

  4. Arnold Lieberman
    Grenade

    Just shows

    That some on these so-called "anti-fascists" are a big a bunch of c***s as the groups they claim to oppose. Scum on the right == scum on the left.

    1. Roger Pearse

      Who needs Nazi's...

      ...when the self-styled "anti-Fascists" behave like the SA?

      There should be no place for violent political intimidation, whoever does it. Unfortunately New Labour was always willing to connive at it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      He's a fascist!

      I don't agree with that view! Burn him!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    Good example

    Of just how dangreous this kind of crap can be when a bunch of mixed up, self-righteous, morons who are quite willing to fuck anyone over, get hold of a list of names.

    Arseholes, the lot of them.

    BTW "self-righteous morons" includes all the commentards who start banging on about how great such "membership" disclosures are.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Re free speech

    ... and free to be sacked as your employer sees fit?

    NO, there are employment laws to protect people from such things. The law has been broken, not by the caretaker, but by the "Hacker" It is he/she that should face justice. In this case not hacker, but criminal. I'm sure his actions will have brought him to the attention of the security services. Remember just because you are paranoid does mean that they are not watching you.

    Freedom of speech is paramount.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Erm....

      Paranoid: exhibiting undue suspicion, fear of persecution

      So if they are watching you, you're not actually paranoid

      /pedant

  7. Titus Technophobe

    EDL

    I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?

    1. M Gale
      FAIL

      Indeed.

      Or you could fight fascism with more fascism!

      Bloody fruitcakes.

    2. Graham Marsden
      Boffin

      @Titus Technophobe

      "I will defend to the death your right to say it?"

      You have the right to express a view, you do not have the right to make threats against another person because you don't like what they say...

      1. Titus Technophobe

        @Graham Marsden

        I didn't think that I was threatening anybody ...... actually it is a quote by Voltaire I believe the principle being one of freedom of speech.

        1. Graham Marsden

          @Titus Technophobe

          Yes, I *KNOW* the quote I have used it many times myself (as a quick search of my name and the phrase will demonstrate) although actually whilst it's generally now attributed to Voltaire, it's possible that he never said it, but it's a paraphrase of his beliefs see: http://www.classroomtools.com/voltaire.htm

          I was not accusing you of threatening anyone, the point I was making was that in your post you put a question mark at the end seemingly querying why the opponents of the EDL should not be allowed to say what they want, however I think you would agree that sending threatening hate-mail goes beyond the right of freedom of speech.

          Perhaps the people who down-voted me would like to change their votes now, or don't they agree with *MY* right to express an opinion because *they* misunderstood it?

          1. Titus Technophobe

            OK

            Clarifying a bit both EDL and EDL’s opponents should have a right to free speech. It is of course when this degrades to either a riot, or other unlawful activity that these rights are then superseded

            1. Graham Marsden
              Thumb Up

              @Titus Technophobe

              Thank you for the clarification, I agree entirely.

              (Alas it looks like those who downvoted me haven't bothered to read the read of the thread...)

      2. howard bowen 1

        Graham - here's titus' real contact details

        His real name is François-Marie Arouet (alias 'Mr Voltaire') and you can find him in February 1778 in Paris if you hurry.

        Probably in one of those Arrondissement thingies.

        Best of luck.

      3. Saganhill
        FAIL

        Voltaire

        LMAO, you dont read much do you? :)

  8. dogged

    This is unfortunate

    But it looks like it's being sorted out. At least the school decided to ask him rather than simply fire him.

    Also, people, please, there was no danger that he might "loose" his job. He might yet "lose" it for any number of reasons but "loosing" it is not an option. Internet spelling. Now that should be a sacking offence.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      S A D

      "Internet spelling. Now that should be a sacking offence."

      Oh dear, Oh dear....

      Get

      A

      LIFE!

      1. dogged
        Grenade

        Re: SAD

        I'll get a life when you get a dictionary. Or better, an education.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    whats more concerning is

    The fact the EDL have a "support the troops" button to fill there own coffers.

    That in itself looks like fraud and should be investigated.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Nice these anti EDL people aren't they.

    Disagree with us and we'll take your job, money and have your family on the street. Yeah very right on.

    UAF - all 'Ricks with the silent P'.

    1. kissingthecarpet
      Headmaster

      Who's getting their job taken etc?

      One - nobody in the article is "on the street"

      Two - no employer,landlord, (who's taking money?) has to respond in any way to anyone's presence on this list. Its up to employers etc. to not be stupid knee-jerk bastards, wouldn't you say so?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down

        No I wouldn't actually

        Clearly it was the anti EDL's intention by Emailing his employer that this man should be fired and thereby lose his employment and thereby a home for his family (hence 'on the street').

        It would appear that you agree with this anti EDL tactic but myself I think it's callous, heartless, cruel and distinctly sinister.

        In fact I would go as far as to label them Evil Bar Stewards of the highest order.

        Given that his supposed 'crime' was to hold different political viewpoints than to maybe I guess er maybe yours?

        What then would your 'punishment' be then for such a 'crime' ?

        Life in prison ? Maybe a 're-education camp? Body parts chopped off?

        Do tell I could do with a laugh.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No I wouldn't actually

          >Life in prison ? Maybe a 're-education camp? Body parts chopped off?

          You're quite right, one of the punishments for waging war on Allah, which I suspect is what these people consider those of the EDL to be doing is the cutting off of hands and feet.

  11. twostellas

    twostellas

    They don't care if you're not a member of the EDL! If you supported the troops and England, you are on the list to be intimidated and/or exterminated. Don't you get it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      pray do tell

      just how many of those "support the troops" donations went to help for heroes or other charities supporting our brave soldiers?

      Whats the betting they stayed firmly in the pockets of the EDL

  12. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    One messed up world

    A group of hackers who follow a religion which takes very badly any people saying (and drawing pictures depicting) their beliefs and holy-dudes, break security and obtain a document through illegal means which show members of a so-called **anti**-**fascist** organisation, also known for violently not liking very much people who live differently to them and who have different values.

    This then leads to a poor bloke who clicked on a vaguely-labelled charitable web-link, the kind which hackers use to get people to buy anti-virus they don't need, and **he** lands with an accusation of having socially unacceptable political views!

    This is a pretty 'ucked up world...

  13. Just Thinking

    Rather more worrying

    If he donated to EDL via a PayPal account, how come EDL have his address? Not to mention, why is such information on a server which is accessible by hacking the EDL website? Aren't you supposed to take care of personal information - DPA or something?

    And I totally agree that the "support the troops" button should be investigated as fraud. Who downvoted that one?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That's how electronic payments work.

      That is, in fact, how electronic payments will continue to work until we finally figure out how to make them anonymous. So far, neither bank nor government seem keen on the idea. In fact, some force all such details to be retained for half a dozen years or more, like on behalf of the revenue service (the netherlands: seven years). That's as many years of liability for everyone who's paid electronically for that many years, assuming immediate and secure disposal after said term. Can you count on that? Would you?

      The problem with even the most enlightened privacy regulations is and remains that it still forces you to trust the other guy will obligingly comply and be neat and tidy with your data, including protecting it from any and all ne'er-do-wells. I think perhaps a microsecond thought would make obvious this is not entirely realistic.

      And because this is a lose once (one hack) equals losing many times (trying to mop up) type scenario, and that's without getting hit by the Streisand effect, it ought to be clear we need something better, and we need it soon. To improve our appaling privacy situation, anonymous electronic payments would be a good start.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    EDL

    Am I the only person who saw "EDL" and thought "Electronic Driving License" ...

    Although I'm glad to say that I didn't do that either ...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      super necessary title

      nope, having experienced the electronic driving license farce first hand i do a bit of a double take every time i see a headline about the english dipshit league.

      poor bloke, tricked into supporting facist dickheads then gets a load of abuse for it. at least his boss had the sense not to kick him out with a jerking knee.

      bunch of bastards the EDL are, telling people to support the troops by donating to them, all they're likely to do for the troops is rile a few more muslim kids into going off to the middle east to learn to blow up squaddies. seen a few of them with swastika tatts and throwing up nazi salutes too, how about supporting the troops who got killed fighting those fuckers eh?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    typical

    "Yes I know I have broken the Data Protection Act and the Computer Misuse Act, I'm a hacker it's what we do, deal with it,"....by scentencing him and removing his liberties!

    Doesn't help the islamists, it only makes their religion seem uncaring and wrong.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Typical

      >it only makes their religion seem uncaring and wrong

      Any religion that still needs to keep it's followers by threat of death for apostasy can't be very caring.

      I don't think a hacker is really on the same scale.

    2. Magnethead
      Joke

      Tattle

      "Doesn't help the islamists, it only makes their religion seem uncaring and wrong."

      As opposed to all the religions that are correct? :-)

  16. RDW
    Flame

    Sinister organisation

    Well, you might think the threat from these guys is overstated, but they've been using some pretty aggressive tactics lately:

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=922330

  17. Ku...

    Perhaps

    Perhaps Evil Auditor is one of our American cousins? In that (red) neck of the woods they enjoy a lot less legal protection in their employment. You can pretty much be sacked because your employer just doesn't like you and they don't have to go through the same level of process we do in this country to remove someone from post.

    I remember being TUPE'd into an American company and they sent us copies of thier standard contract of employment and my legal advice was it didn't matter if I signed it or not because about 60% of it was illegal under UK law anyway.

    1. Suboptimal Planet

      Evil employers?

      Presumably you think that you should be free to quit your job at any time, for any reason (subject, perhaps, to some reasonable notice period.

      Why shouldn't your employer be free to sack you at any time, for any reason (subject to a similar notice period)?

      An employment contract, like any contract, should be voluntary on both sides. The government shouldn't intervene to force you to continue working for a particular company, but nor should it restrict your employer's freedom to terminate the contract. As soon as *either* party thinks the relationship isn't mutually beneficial, they should be free to break it off.

      Employment laws seem to be predicated on the strange belief that everyone has a *right* to a job.

      The welfare state renders employment laws redundant.

  18. LPF

    Just to even things out a bit...

    The onyl time that EDL marches have decended into violence is when the Unite Against Fascim(sp) have turned up, to oppose them. When they dont turn up , no trouble.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Check your facts...

      Not that I particularly like the UAF either, but there have been instances of EDL events ending up in violence without the UAF being involved (i.e. Oldham this year), not to mention the various times when there have been counterprotesters but the EDL violence has occured away from the actual protest. These are football hooligans we're talking about after all, not the respectable concerned citizens their press officer would have you believe. And this is even before you take into account the death threats against journalists who've covered their events.

      1. Tequila Joe

        Just checked them

        Headline = "Hate mob’s terror reign"

        Quote from article = "Police say there were no reports of any injuries to officers or members of the public and no damage reported."

        Somewhat of a mismatch, I think.

        http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/46908/hate-mobs-terror-reign

    2. Andy Enderby 1
      Grenade

      title goes here

      The onyl time that EDL marches have decended into violence is when the Unite Against Fascim(sp) have turned up, to oppose them. When they dont turn up , no trouble.

      Oh fucking really ?

      Demonstrable and total bollocks.

      .

    3. ThomH Silver badge

      Yeah!

      Only once in the last year have the EDL managed a protest without a UAF counter protest, which was September 11 2010 in Oldham. The EDL again attacked a police car.

      The normal pattern is that the EDL outnumber the UAF, such as on January 23 in Stoke-on-Trent when 1,500 EDL supporters turned up versus 300 UAF supporters. I guess that wasn't enough UAF supporters to care about because the EDL again attacked the police.

    4. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Stop

      So what you're saying is...

      ..."don't oppose us and there won't be any trouble".

      Sounds like a threat to me.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      EDL thugs

      I refute this claim. I am an independent news photographer who has covered half a dozen or so events involving the EDL. I have to make this post anonymously as the morons will try and find out who I am, because in their eyes I'm the 'commy meeja'.

      I can't speak for events at Bolton as I wasn't there, but ALL violence at Dudley, Bradford, Leicester, & Nuneaton was instigated and a direct result of drunk thugs aligned with the EDL.

      I felt less at risk from attack covering the recent riots in London than I do covering EDL events. In fact, I can't think of another group, outside of football hooligans, that are as prepared to physically attack members of the press as the EDL are.

      While the EDL constantly whine about 'free speech', the same organisation declares open season on the press and even have sections on their forums with pictures of reporters & news crews to be targeted for assault at their future demos. The EDL have a very strange idea of free speech that doesn't involve reporting of things like them attacking a restaurant full of women & children post Leicester demonstration.

      Just have a read of some of the Facebook pages dedicated to the EDL, they say more about the 'movement' than I ever could.

  19. twostellas

    hmm

    Come to think of it, this is probably a bunch of bunk, and his wife is a supporter of the EDL, and they are just trying to keep the school from being blown up.

    1. IR

      You know

      You're not fooling anybody, Mr RegisteredAnAccountTodayAndHaveOnlyPostedOnThisTopic

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Megaphone

    lol ppl suck ok

    youve got one group of nobs who wanna smash things up and cause trouble, closely followed by a second group of nobs who wanna smash things up and cause trouble on the grounds that they oppose the first group.

    both groups are symptomatic of one thing: large pockets of poorly educated, impoverished, malnourished and above all bored teenagers who clearly have no job prospects whatsoever. Brought up as they were in some shithole town on the outskirts of Cuntsville. Filled with grim terraced houses that are more likely to see a visit from the debt collector than the postman in any given day.

    So basically, "wasted potential group a" and "human misery group b" get together on the regular to slap eachother around while those of us in the civilised world fail to give a shit. I wish that last statement was just dark humour, but do any of us really care about these people, really? Evidently not. Otherwise we wouldn't let our government actively fuck them over, then complain when their brains short circuit and they think they be down wit tha fascism yo. Big it up.

    1. Suboptimal Planet
      WTF?

      How to combat poverty?

      "Otherwise we wouldn't let our government actively fuck them over"

      If by that you're referring to the welfare trap, whereby millions of people are better off on benefits and having children than working, then I agree. Our government should be acting much more swiftly to withdraw handouts, and make work pay.

  21. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  22. Frank Fisher
    Big Brother

    poxy Lefties

    "However given the nature of my employment with children allegations like this could have cost me my job and my family their home."

    What a great country we live in today. Your political beliefs will cost you your job. Remind me againl we didnt' like the authoritaian USSR because...?

    Wretched hoel this country is becoming - all down to the poisonous PC Left and their meddling; and now even the so-called Conservativeparty has bought into the same anti-liberal nonsense. EQUALITY must trump liberty is seems. Well screw that.

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      You're attacking a straw man

      The popular press is very slightly right of centre, as have been all the governments here since 1979. It's Tony Blair that attempted to extend the detention limit for terror suspects to 90 days and Tony Blair that essentially made all offences arrestable. "You're either with us or against us" is a refrain of the right, as demonstrated by George W Bush.

      Political beliefs may cost you your job but in the general case that's nothing to do with either the left or the right. The mainstream looks poorly upon extreme political beliefs of either leaning and people tend to try to avoid controversy.

  23. Sparkypatrick

    Fraud

    While the police are investigating the EDL hacking, perhaps they might look into the apparent fraudulent fundraising techniques of said hooligans.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      police investigate hacking?

      Unless you give the police an easy "shopping list" of suspects we all know they will do nothing.

      Becuase that's police work 2.0

      a) Get a list of addresses from somewhere

      b) Lock up everyone on the list while you figure out which of many convoluted laws they can be accused of breaking

      c) Everyone gets a raise

      d) Streets safer? Not so much

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Are sure?

    "refute this claim. I am an independent news photographer who has covered half a dozen or so events involving the EDL. I have to make this post anonymously as the morons will try and find out who I am, because in their eyes I'm the 'commy meeja'."

    Of course that means that all EDL are evil morons.

    Do you think the same about Islamic terror means that all Muslims are terrorists?

  25. Suboptimal Planet
    FAIL

    Far right?

    "The hacker posted his haul - lists of hundreds of members and financial supporters of the far-right group"

    I thought we'd done this one to death in the previous article.

    I was prepared to accept that Chris Williams was just being careless, but his continued use of the term "far right" to refer to fascist groups suggests malice rather than incompetence.

    You can hate fascist thugs, and you can hate Thatcherites, but don't suggest that their political philosophies are similar.

    "far right" is a grossly misleading term. I expect it from the BBC and The Guardian, but not from El Reg.

  26. Lionel Baden

    this is the reason

    for using P.O Box's

    or your neighbours address and internet ;)

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