back to article Dutch police arrest 16-year-old WikiLeaks avenger

Dutch police said they have arrested a 16-year-old boy for participating in web attacks against MasterCard and Visa as part of a grassroots push to support WikiLeaks. A press release issued on Thursday (Google translation here) said the unnamed boy confessed to the distributed denial-of-service attacks after his computer gear …

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  1. proto-robbie
    Headmaster

    Playing with fire

    Kiddies, this is not a drill. The anti-terrorism laws are wide, and punitive. Government spooks tend to be likewise. This blancmange guy is going down, don't jump with him.

    1. Tzael

      Re: Playing with fire

      Yep, unfortunately a lot of teenagers are going to be led astray by this and won't adequately cover their tracks while trying to help their cause. Lots of other ways to spread the message, just talking about it with friends who are only hearing a biased portrayal in mainstream news can help a lot. Leave the illegal stuff to the people who feel that it's necessary and know what they're doing.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Boffin

      Ever heard of the Indigo children?

      They are the future, for good or bad, and they don't follow the same rules as us, big old fat bastards...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Ever heard of the Indigo children?

        Have any of those ret^H^H^H'special' kids actually grown up to do anything magnificent yet?

        Since supposedly some have been around from the mid-60s, you'd think that some would have led the human race on our new path.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Boffin

          Clueless

          You're still thinking in terms of Hollywood-style heroes. That's not how things work in the age of Aquarius. As a group, the Indigo children will change the world.

          1. david wilson

            @AC

            >>"As a group, the Indigo children will change the world."

            +1 for the plausible deniability there.

            So they're all Metagifted and Deeply Special, but you can't actually expect them to have done anything Obviously Useful, but just you jolly well wait, one day they'll join their Amazing Minds together and Change the World, even if they do it in such a cunning way that No Bugger Else Notices.

            Kind of like the Natural Law Party, but with less nasal hair and firmer breasts?

            At least for now, anyway.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Happy

              Oh the irony

              you being sarcastic but actually it will happen exactly as you say. It might take longer than you seem to suggest but at some point there will be a critical mass of people that don't swallow all the bullshit we do to keep paying our mortgages and then, without a bang, the world will start changing, yes.

        2. Scorchio!!

          Re: @Ever heard of the Indigo children?

          Well it was all just new age psychobabble. This kind of quatsch does not withstand any theoretical or empirical evidence at all. It's just childish hippie words.

        3. spodula

          Yes

          Woz and Jobs were originally Phone Phreakers.

          Cant think of any others at the moment, but i'm sure they were.

          1. Scorchio!!

            Re: Yes

            2600 yes, but that is not the same bundle of psychobabble as came from the OPs keyboard. He's speshul.

    3. Petrea Mitchell
      Badgers

      Who needs anti-terrorism laws for this?

      When you're talking revenge attacks on a business which interfere with its ability to function, organized-crime laws will probably turn out to be sufficient.

  2. wretched
    FAIL

    zombie clients

    "According to researchers, the Low Orbit Ion Cannon tool, which thousands of WikiLeaks sympathizers are using to unleash the DDoS attacks, takes no steps to conceal their IP addresses. It wouldn't be surprising if attackers who used the application from internet connections at their home or work also receive a call from local law enforcement agencies."

    Funny, You don't hear about local law enforcement agencies giving un-willing people running zombie bot clients a call.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Because

      They are not commiting a crime and are better built...

      1. Mephistro Silver badge

        @ AC

        "They are not pissing off the powers that be"

        Here, fixed that for you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Haha

          Very clever, but I am relitivly sure that the powers that be were more than a little pissed off when botnets have attacked govenment networks, as they have done.

          It's like the diffrence between terrorists and rioters, both using violence, but in diffrent ways. Irish terrorists are/were almost never arrested, yet rioters were being arrested yesterday.

          Oh no, I forgot, this MUST be a conspiricy.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Mephisto

          Surely, when there are attacks where it's fairly clear that it's likely all coming from unwilling zombie machines, there's a limit how much effort it's worth putting in to find a zombie.

          On the other hand, when there are attacks where human zombies are thick enough to use their own machines...

          1. Mephistro Silver badge

            @ AC Friday 10th December 2010 10:05 GMT

            "On the other hand, when there are attacks where human zombies are thick enough to use their own machines..."

            Amen, brother.

            But I find a certain degree of inconsistency in this situation. Let me try to explain.

            A- Voluntary DDOSers like those Anonymous lads who installed voluntarily the programs in their own computers aren't really hacking anything but their own machines, and their are free to do so. So we should probably remove the accusation of 'hacking' -i.e. entering, controlling and stealing data from other peoples's computers. A DDOS attack like this is, Imho, like protesting in front of the gates of a company. A little bit of disruption, a lot of publicity -bad for the company, good for the protesters.

            B- On the other hand, when some bot herder performs this kind of attack, he isn't only DDOSing the 'victim's servers', but he is also entering, controlling and probably stealing data from hundreds or thousands of machines. Add to that the fact that those botnets are usually employed for nefarious purposes - phishing, spam, online drugstores, credit card fraud, identity theft, kiddie porn distribution et cetera - , a situation that harms lots of people, either financially, in their health, or in their right to privacy or 'all of the above.

            Now, please consider this: In the situation described in paragraph 'B' it usually takes weeks or months for the authorities to even take notice of the problem, let alone the time needed to perform the first arrests, take down the control servers and put a stop to the problem. In the situation described in paragraph 'A' it took them TWO FRIGGIN' DAYS* to take down the control server and make arrests.

            My take is that this mysterious asymmetry is caused by the fact that most 'common people' owning owned computers (hur hur) don't have the means to invite several ministers and MPs to a Mediterranean cruise in a private yacht next summer.**

            Notes:

            * Sorry for the caps. It's at times like this that one wishes -briefly- that Elreg forums had some way to change fonts and text sizes, Yes, I am weak...

            ** You know, I've got this silly fantasy where one summer a huge tropical storm reaches the Mediterranean sea and sinks simultaneously all the yachts containing a good percent of the politicos and pundits of the world.***

            *** In the process making room for the next echelon of bastards. Sigh.

            1. david wilson

              @Mephistro

              >>"My take is that this mysterious asymmetry is caused by the fact that most 'common people' owning owned computers (hur hur) don't have the means to invite several ministers and MPs to a Mediterranean cruise in a private yacht next summer.**"

              Isn't it more likely the case that proper botnet herders are smarter, or at least more experienced, and that incompetent botnet herders would get picked off fairly quickly, but over time, and maybe with minimal fanfare.

              If you had a situation where numerous people who don't know what they're doing dive in on a high-profile attack, isn't that pretty much *the* likeliest situation for one or more people to be quickly caught?

    2. Scorchio!!

      Uhuh

      That's probably because they are "unwilling". That is to say mens rea indicates the crime was committed by the individual who hijacked their machine, that is to say they did not deliberately download and install the malicious package that is inflicting such damage on systems world wide.

      If people deliberately and maliciously damage computer systems, in support of a man and organisation dedicated to the public broadcast of state secrets there's no point in screaming foul when prosecution follows. That will show either a lack of insight (perhaps meaning the offender is at risk of harming self or others) or that the individual is not repentant and likely to reoffend.

      These people are going to suffer for their behaviour, and rightly so. Just like the online paedophiles of this world they need to realise they are *not* anonymous. Two years hard labour. Next.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Warrant?

    I am curious as to how they got a Warrant to Search his place so fast?

    1. Martin H Watson

      Because...

      ...they don't tart about like we seem to have to, They just do it. Good too.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Go

      @A/C Warrant....

      ..err easily?

      You don't need one to investigate a crime in progress. If the ISP / Attacked website agree it is still happening, then they can go in.

      Otherwise.

      Ring ring...Hello Police.

      Help I'm in the bathroom of my house and my ex is trying to kill me with an axe.

      OK, well it's after 5pm so can you hang on until a judge can issue a warrant in the morning....Anything else i can help you with today?

    3. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
      FAIL

      Simple: because they have clear evidence

      If you are clueless enough to forget that a DDoS is in essence committing a crime, and double up on the cluelessness (is that a word?) by assuming whoever asks you to join the criminal gang that they have any interest in protecting you instead of doing that yourself, well, hurry, expect a thank-you card from the judge by means of a quick warrant process.

      To get a warrant only takes time when the evidence isn't clear (so more has to be gathered). When it's black-and-white it does not take any time whatsoever - there is no doubt. Don't forget that everyone who started that DDoS code was warned in advance what it would do, so even the German "ich habe es nicht gewusst" defense fails here. It's a wilful act, and you just put a red flag up at your house "Wikileaks criminal supporter here" via your IP address. What's not to like, from a police perspective?

      Idiots.

      1. Scorchio!!

        Aber...

        ..er hat's gewusst, und er ist Nederlandische, nicht Deutsche. Also, fahren sie bitte noch weiter, es gibt hier nichts zu sehen.

        Well, rusty, but you do get the point old bean, I hope. :-)

        Expect a few thousand more arrests world wide. In some countries outside of our so-gennanten first world, yuman rights bubble there will be violence, and these people will probably not own a computer for several months, at which point they will receive a stern warning. Unless they are still doing porridge.

  4. Edwin
    Boffin

    Digital Data Carriers

    Amusing Dutch term - it means media such as CDs, DVDs and flash drives, but can also cover hard drives, etc. I wouldn't read too much into that though.

  5. ArmanX
    FAIL

    Yeah, this is pretty much what I expected to happen...

    If you do something stupid (like attacking a major website used for money transfer), expect retribution. And I'm not talking about getting forums spammed with pictures of cats, either. In the real world, there are laws, and breaking them get you in trouble. The police tend not to find Guy Fawkes masks as funny as some might think.

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Boffin

      And a crim record to boot.

      This is what happens when the politically naive jump on the latest trendy bandwagon and try a little dig at "The Man" - they haven't a clue what they're doing, download some program because someone tells them it's safe, and end up with a criminal record which will affect their future job prospects. Political conviction is no defence against the law.

  6. Framitz

    Well here we go then

    This brat can probably expect a lot of company if/when the govs go after the DDOS participants en-mass. Should be very entertaining for a while.

  7. mike panero

    How would...

    Reggie react when the forces of mortgage and loans fell on it?

    Yeah you would all be crying out for a bit of DDOS

    But now when you should be stepping up to the mark

    You unleash this bit of properganda

    Hell reggie

    Hell

    Shame on you

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Whatever you've been smoking..

      .. I wouldn't want any of it.

      Let me know when your brain has caught up with the real world. You seem to be the sort of guy that walks around with a bleeding tongue because you keep forgetting about the staples when licking the centerfold..

    2. Thecowking

      Who's reggie?

      And why does he have a real goose?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Properganda

      As opposed to improperganda I suppose.

  8. CraigRoberts

    Anonymous... Kinda...

    Here's where we see how serious Anonymous etc are now that arrests are being made. Going up against Scientology or (other) stupid people on the internet is one thing - DDOSing 2 of the biggest financial institutes in the world is another.

    Personally, I agree with their sentiment. Until Mastercard/PayPal/Visa pulled the plug I wasn't going to make a donation to Wikileaks, now I want to know if there's any way I still can.

    But I don't think that launching a pointless script kiddie attack against massive corps. and getting yourself nicked is going to change anything either. So I won't be doing all that.

    Unfortunately with our reliance on our credit/debit cards and buying tat on eBay through Paypal or getting most of our Xmas shopping through Amazon, boycotting these companies is futile. I hope the leaks keep coming, I hope people keep talking about it, I hope it all turns out like The Pentagon Papers did. If need be - let's get a protest going... It seems to be all the rage, even though it didn't help the students... Bugger.

    This WikiLeaks stuff is important. Whichever camp you fall into, there's an important argument going on and it deserves attention.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Donations via Iceland

      > Until Mastercard/PayPal/Visa pulled the plug I wasn't going to make a

      > donation to Wikileaks, now I want to know if there's any way I still can.

      Today's Grauniad gave a couple of bank accounts that you could still send money to, one in Iceland and the other (I think) in the Netherlands. You might be able to find them online.

      Personally I would worry that you might be considered to be supporting a terrorist organisation and get into very deep trouble.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Happy

        RE: Donations via Iceland

        "......supporting a terrorist organisation...." Until it is designated a terrorist organisation you can donate as much as you like. I'm also not sure the US or UK could designate it so seeing as it hasn't expressly commited a terrorist act nor have they made any form of statement supporting terrorism. Even should Assange and Co be somehow tried for "treason", simply donating to their site wouldn't be enough to get you in trouble unless the authorities could prove you donated to aid a criminal act, i.e., more "treason". But, seeing as the NSA can probably track donations from Western bankaccounts going via Iceland or even Outer Mongolia, your name is likley to end up on some lists you really wouldn't want it on!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        "Personally I would worry that you might be considered to be supporting a terrorist organisation and get into very deep trouble."

        Personally I'd try and get some idea what they've done with the money they've already taken before thinking of adding to their collection.

        Assuming you can actually find out, that is.

        Or maybe see what answer they give to the claim from Bradley Manning's supporters that Wikileaks haven't given a penny to support his defence, despite having solicited donations for that purpose, and despite seemingly raising large amounts on the back of the information he provided.

        Sounds more like a good old-fashioned capitalist organisation than a terrorist one.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Really?

          If they were in it for the money, you would think they would own more stuff - apart from computers, that is. There are monks that have more luxurious lifestyles.

          I suspect most of their money is spent on IT.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @AC

            >>"I suspect most of their money is spent on IT."

            It'd be nice to know what it was spent on.

            If they really *have* been getting a 7-digit weekly income recently, that's a shitload of IT, especially if most of the effective storage is other people mirroring at their own expense.

            Still, I guess they must file accounts *somewhere*, for tax purposes?

      3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Terroist organisation blah blah.

        I wonder where all of these sudden Anonymous Cowards pulling bullshit propaganda out of their nether orifices are coming from.

        It's the same as happened when Israel accidentally the whole peace flotilla. Ugly brownshirt worms crawling all over the message boards.

        Some boiler-room astroturf operation, shurely?

        1. david wilson

          @Destroy All Monsters

          >>"Some boiler-room astroturf operation, shurely?"

          There only seem to be relatively few posts saying things like 'supporting Wikileaks is supporting terrorism', and to be honest, I'm not sure how many of them are just trolling. Some seem like such classically stereotyped patriot-bollocks that it's hard to tell if they're real or just parodies.

          Of course, there are rather more people who fail to think the sun shines out of Saint Julian's arse, but I think for most of them, that's just a personal opinion.

          Even if you think you're Right, you should realise that other people can legitimately have other views without necessarily being paid to have them, and can be critical of some aspects of Wikileaks without necessarily supporting everything done against them, or being in favour of total government secrecy.

        2. Scorchio!!
          Grenade

          Re: Terroist organisation blah blah

          The argumentum ad hominem has never been known to establish a truth. If you address the facts rather than the person you may even get somewhere. Until then you are merely behaving in an unpleasant manner, in support of the unsupportable, leading people such as myself that you are an odious, irrational creature that supports criminal behaviour.

          HTH

          HAND

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        sad

        "Personally I would worry that you might be considered to be supporting a terrorist organisation and get into very deep trouble."

        Nice to read my fellow human beings will stand up for the truth!

      5. Eenymeeny

        Drain ... money

        "Personally I would worry that you might be considered to be supporting a terrorist organisation and get into very deep trouble."

        More like just throwing good money after bad. What's the next batch of data apparently? Bank secrets .. oh no, sorry, UFO reports apparently. For FSM's sake...

        Me, I donate my hard-earned cash to causes that actually say what they are going to do next. And actually help real people achieve real worth with their real lives. Like Medicins sans frontieres, for example.

        You know, grown-up organisations run by normal people.

    2. Mephistro Silver badge

      Not so futile, maybe

      "...boycotting these companies is futile..."

      If a popular boycott lowers their sales a single 1%, the next time 'someone' asks them to do the government's dirty work they won't be so eager to comply. Remember, many of these corporate types would sell their mothers, sliced, for a single 1% increase in sales. And there are more effective ways to boycott them than DDOSing their servers. See my post below.

      "This WikiLeaks stuff is important. Whichever camp you fall into, there's an important argument going on and it deserves attention"

      Amen, brother.

    3. Pearl

      Alternatives to Paypal and Amazon

      "Unfortunately with our reliance on our credit/debit cards and buying tat on eBay through Paypal or getting most of our Xmas shopping through Amazon, boycotting these companies is futile."

      Au contraire. They are the first and biggest but not the only games in town and more are coming. Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Let's move our business to companies that our more inline with our beliefs and less prone to political intimidation.

      Eg. ZashPay lets you send money via e-mail or text message. Account setup is free, as is receiving money. Works only if your bank is signed up but they are expanding.

      Online purchasing and financial transactions are here to stay but Paypal and Amazon need some competitors because, now since the Wikileaks fiasco, I and many others are looking to take our business elsewhere.

    4. Wayland Sothcott 1 Bronze badge
      Big Brother

      Resistance is Victory

      Wikileaks may be a bit clueless as are the student protests and the DDoS attacks however it shows people are getting a bit of a clue. It may play into the hands of the people they are fighting but it's better than doing nothing.

      The number of people running this Ion Cannon thing is having an effect and there will be some losses to arrests and people losing their connection. I won't be doing this but I don't think the risk to the people doing it is that great. I notice Lloyds TSB business banking link does nothing this morning.

      The news that 9/11 was an inside job is still the biggest wakeup call for me and none of this Wikileaks stuff goes that far. It's all still baby steps as far as society waking up.

      The bigger picture of the leaks is probably the old Problem, Reaction, Solution.

      The problem is big enough that it has caused a big reaction. The solution will be better Internet regulation. Notice how suddenly the last IPv4 numbers have been bought up and we will be pushed into IPv6. This way all traffic can be digitally signed with the number from your National ID card, yeah I expect the National ID to come back soon.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Wayland

        Also, big news for me, God created the earth in 7 days 6000 years ago.

      2. Scorchio!!

        Re: Resistance is Victory

        9/11 was a conspiracy. Oops. Time for you to do some reading.

  9. LaeMing Silver badge
    Badgers

    I am having no trouble boycotting them for spendmas

    But I have been boycotting that particular 'celebration' for years. I buy bigger birthday pressies for everyone instead, which spreads out the spend nicely and avoids the need to plonk money down on some crap no-one would want just because I /have/ to get /something/. Noticable mental health benefits in additional to the financial ones.

    ....

    I wonder if it is possible to DDOS the world's prison systems with a huge influx of inmates. It will cost the tax-payer dearly, I imagine.

  10. Steve Roper
    Grenade

    This is the revolution

    we've been waiting for. Enough is enough, and people are now starting to fight back. In revolutions, people are scapegoated, tortured, and killed, on both sides.

    Protest no longer works, and hasn't worked for a long time. Governments use the farce of democracy to delude people into thinking their vote counts for something, but the reality is it's members of the same old boys' club that get the power no matter who you vote for.

    Uprisings in the grand tradition of storming the Bastille are no longer possible in the face of police technology, weapons, and crowd-control psychology. Science and technology have been used for evil here and there is no longer any stopping them by mass insurrection or guerilla warfare.

    So some people are starting to fight back in the only way left to them - digital warfare. The open nature of the Internet makes this possible. And it WILL spill over into real life sooner or later, as emotions run high and the rage begins to spread. It will not end soon, and it will not end peaceably. But we will all be caught up in the outcome, whichever way it goes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Steve Roper

      Stop taking the tablets, Steve.

      They aren't working any more.

      Maybe one reason people don't do much Bastille-storming these days is that they actually learned from history that someone shouting 'anything is better than this!' is frequently proved tragically wrong.

      1. Gwaptiva

        Storming the Bastille

        Learned too that storming a big fecking castle where armed men guard something like half a dozen posh people locked up for forgery or perversion is rather silly

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      Re: This is the revolution

      >So some people are starting to fight back in the only way left to them - digital warfare. The open nature of the Internet makes this possible.

      I see some weak points there:

      1. The method Anonymous are using: simply flooding websites with bogus requests don't do much harm. Attacking backend servers and financially important systems do make a lot of hassle and loss. And a simple DDoS might not be effective against important targets, so the risks increase as well.

      2. I don't consider DDoSing some box as "digital warfare". It's more the equivalent of tons of people entering a store to negate service to paying customers (hence the name). If Anonymous were to do the likes of China and Google, hacking into boxes to lift information, make financial damage etc, then it would be a "digital warfare".

      As it is currently, it's just a nuisance. And a PR machine too. Not a warfare.

    3. Cliff

      The first rule of fight club is...

      Seriously dude, this isn't the revolution.

    4. Pearl

      Defending their life

      I agree- it is the only way left to them.

      "Uprisings in the grand tradition of storming the Bastille are no longer possible in the face of police technology, weapons, and crowd-control psychology. Science and technology have been used for evil here and there is no longer any stopping them by mass insurrection or guerilla warfare."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Pearl

        "I agree- it is the only way left to them."

        Or at least, the only way left that doesn't involve getting out of a chair.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    It's all good

    Take more garbage off the streets and put them in prison where they belong.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      pot and toss

      your obviously happy to lay down and take it like a bit h.

      Weak!

  12. moonface
    Unhappy

    Rumour network

    Word on the street, is that he was hosting an IRC server co-ordinating the attacks.

    Let's hope that the future, isn't back to the bad old days, when Dutch kids hid in secret annexes.

  13. Neoc

    Hmmm...

    Wikileak and Assange :- the Internet's Sarajevo and Ferdinand?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    sacrifice someone else

    "According to researchers, the Low Orbit Ion Cannon tool, which thousands of WikiLeaks sympathizers are using to unleash the DDoS attacks, takes no steps to conceal their IP addresses"

    ... probably deliberate as they would see a few "martyrs" as beneficial to their campaign

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Title here

    Where's the money Jules? You know.. the cash you've taken off people to support your sources in court? Where is it? Your pocket? Really? Who'd a thunk it?

    Well, was in your pocket until you managed to piss off the Swiss Banks...

    For those using LOIC.. did you know gullable was just removed from the New English Dictionary?

    Paris, 'cause even she has more sense.

    1. J 3
      Headmaster

      Thanks for the heads up!

      "did you know gullable was just removed from the New English Dictionary"

      No, I didn't! Gee, you are right, I couldn't find gullable in any dictionary I have access to... But I did find gullible though, would that do?

    2. Demosthenese

      you are right ...

      'gullable' has been removed from the dictionary. It's like it was never there.

    3. nyelvmark
      Headmaster

      A respected AC wrote...

      >> For those using LOIC.. did you know gullable was just removed from the New English Dictionary?

      Nahh, that's bollocks, that is - a bloke down the pub give me the word from the 'orses mouth: It's still in there, but they BLEEDING SPELT IT WRONG!

      Makes you wanna laugh, innit?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      Yes, gullable was replaced..

      ...with the correct spelling: gullible.

      Or maybe gullable means able to be gulled? Maybe I've been gulled.

      1. frank ly Silver badge

        re. Maybe I've been gulled

        gull: verb - shit on from a great height.

        Example A: If you use that stuff, you'll be gullable

        Example B: That kid was gulled, real bad.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      selfish undisciplined children

      when did you kids become so sceptical?

      Have you stopped to think why people are supporting them? Or are you too busy updating your twatface profile on your ifreak?

      Sad, very sad people

  16. Turtle

    Not everyone read the story...

    Well, judging by some of the positive comments here, not everyone read the earlier story where Cryptome operator John Young called Wikileaks a "criminal organization", and noted that they were funded indirectly by George Soros, the principal owner of the Democratic Party (bet you didn't know that, now did you?) He further pointed at the obvious fact that Soros expects a good return on his investment. (As an aside, after Soros was unsuccessful in aborting the invasion of Iraq, he invested in Halliburton.) To quote the article, "Young believes Wikileaks is selling its secrets for commercial gain".

    For those who missed it, the article is here:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/07/cryptome_on_wikileaks/

    Personally, I *still* want these people executed.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      @Turtle Ref:Not everyone read the story...

      I would have been much more interested to read peoples comments on the article you quoted:

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/07/cryptome_on_wikileaks/

      however there doesnt seem to have been the option to do so.... or for this article:

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/09/bradley_manning_wikileaks_no_help/

      (how can they use the money for thier stated purposes if its all been frozen by the banks...)

      Why is that reg?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        "(how can they use the money for thier stated purposes if its all been frozen by the banks...)"

        So they were *just* about to post a cheque, many months after starting to collect money?

        Which Wikileaks bank accounts have been frozen?

        I thought it was just one of Julian's accounts (and presumably, someone as careful as him has various other ones?)

        I'm assuming he keeps his money and Wikileaks' money properly distinct.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Ah yes, it's in theRegister...

      ...so it must be true, like all the other stuff they publish.

    3. nyelvmark
      Black Helicopters

      Turtle said:

      >> Personally, I *still* want these people executed.

      There seem to be an awful lot of people in the world who think that society can sometimes be improved by the permanent removal of one or more of its members. In fact, it's possible that most of us believe that the world could be immensely improved by the (accidental, of course) elimination of the weakest two thirds.

      However, I'm not so sure how many of us consider that there's another possibility. Our system is flawed because it is based upon the assumption that people obey the law, which unfairly biases it in favour of the miscreants. No matter how certain we are of their guilt, we must undergo "due process" which costs hundreds of millions per year and often allows criminals to continue "business as usual" while their lawyers prepare elaborate time-wasting defences.

      The alternative is obvious, and I'm sure that all right-thinking Reg readers will agree with me that the time is ripe to topple the current ideology:- to clean out the banks and their mafia masters; to string up the politicians and their puppet mouthpieces, the social scientists; to acclaim the equality of dolphins; to achieve the new order of man.

      In the new order, there will be no hiding behind the so-called "innocent until proven guilty" law. Why should there be? What does an innocent man have to fear from the law? Why shouldn't an honest man carry with him a simple electronic device that logs all his words and actions into the central control system, and issues him with guidance on what to do or say next?

      For most of us, this wouldn't be a problem. So, as long as you're one of us, it shouldn't be a problem for you, either. But there's the rub. You see, if you look at crime from a global ethnic level, you find the tendency to antisocial/criminal behaviour is pretty similar amongst all ethnic and religious groups (allowing for social circumstances), but it gets much more interesting when you "drill down" to the local detail - in such detail, we can see that more than 90% of all reported crimes are committed by gypsies, itinerant farmworkers, wogs, travelling Hungarian circus performers, spicks, Polish plumbers, etc. Moreover, this pattern holds true THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. In short, nearly all criminals are THEM and not US.

      So what do we do? It's obvious - we build a form of government where WE make the decisions and THEY are guilty (and thus subject to summary execution) until such time as they can prove that they are US. And why not? Don't WE have the right to defend ourselves against THEM?

      If you want to join us and can prove that you're one of us, we want you. Proof is accepted in all major currencies.

      1. Mephistro Silver badge

        Are you by chance...

        ... a member of the Bildelberg Group? ;-)

        1. david wilson

          @Mephistro

          >>".. a member of the Bildelberg Group? ;-)"

          That's where all the powerful dyslexics meet, right?

  17. oliver Stieber

    like for like

    so if I walk in front of the entrance to a bank in protest, would I get the same treatment?

    there is only one thing unchanging, and that is the truth.

    a leader

    an aim

    a following

    a church

    divine power

    a sacrifice

    a religion.

    welcome to the new world.

    now how's that war in Afghanistan going?

    1. david wilson

      @oliver Stieber

      >>"so if I walk in front of the entrance to a bank in protest, would I get the same treatment?"

      If you stopped people going in, I suppose you might be done by the police for obstruction, or pushed out of the way by an annoyed would-be customer.

      Though I guess you'd probably better work out what role the bank actually has in the affair you're protesting about, so that you won't look like a dick if someone asks what you think you're doing.

  18. Mephistro Silver badge
    Joke

    The DDOS attack is WRONG!!!

    To show your support to the companies unjustly attacked by those damn anarchists at Anonymous, you could make a call to their emergency hotlines and let them know you are with them in these difficult times. These numbers are usually toll free, so the call won't cost you a dime, and will let the people at said companies know of your support and love for them.

    While you are at it you could check -out of pure curiosity- whether the plate number of your car or the serial # of your computer is a valid credit card number, or inform them of the theft of your garden dwarves last summer, to see if they can help, given their experience in solving various thefts, scams and DDOS attacks. Oh, and remember to be polite.

    Oh, and for those of you afraid of 'the consequences', calling these numbers is as legal as calling your grandma, as long as you don't make threats or insult the pple at the other end of the line. You wouldn't do that to your grandma, would you?

    THIS WILL SHOW THOSE DAMN HACKERS!!!!

    You're welcome. ;-)

    1. The main man
      Thumb Up

      Agreed

      This is wrong and illegal. There is no differenciation between a "good" hacker and a "bad" hacker (just like saying a good thief and a bad thief). For me they all fall in the same boat.

      1. Mephistro Silver badge
        IT Angle

        @ The main man

        Contrary to popular belief -created by big media, clueless journalists, script kiddies and governments - the word 'hacker' has several definitions. The oldest one -the original one- describes guys that like to tinker with their own hardware or software to extend its capabilities, applying their technical knowledge to the task and gaining more technical knowledge in the process. When you write that all hackers are bad, I and many other Elreg readers feel personally insulted, either because we define ourselves as hackers -not my case- or because we know that were it not for 'hackers' -in the original sense of the word- the most advanced personal computers in our 2010 A.D. would be something similar to an AmstradCPC or Commodore64, our most advanced OS would be a blinking cursor on a black screen and our most advanced communication system would be a BBS accessed through a very slow modem.

        I know it is a common error, but perhaps you should use a different word -'crackers' comes to my mind- or at least acknowledge the difference between 'good hackers' and 'bad hackers'. 'Cause nowadays there still exists a big # of 'good hackers' without whom our lives would be far less interesting.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The kids are angry.

    I can't agree with their actions, way too much like an angry mob for my liking. You can't just disrupt the service of something just because you don't like their actions. I appreciate their sentiments, though. I mean, they're screwing around with a credit card company., it's kind of hard not to like that. People are angry. This is a symptom of the way people are right now. I'd say this kid deserves a vandalism charge. That's basically all he did. What can you expect from a 16 year old? He'll think twice about it now.

    1. Anders Halling
      Thumb Up

      yep

      He'll learn.. to use a proxy or 7.

      1. Lionel Baden
        WTF?

        proxy or 7 ????

        How the fuck would that help if he's hosting the IRC server ?????

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Grenade

        :P

        DDoS'ing through proxy is DDoS'ing the proxy itself... :P

    2. Eenymeeny
      WTF?

      WTF?

      "I mean, they're screwing around with a credit card company., it's kind of hard not to like that."

      Kinda hard to read any intelligence into that comment.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rush of Blood to the Head

    This is obviously an emotive issue, and has caused some people to say amazingly stupid things (calling for assassination, for example).

    The guilty party here is Bradley Manning, who copied classified documents.

    He sent them to Wikileaks, and they did the same as any other news organisation would do (and has done), and published them.

    If Julian Assange has done anything illegal regarding the documents, then so has Rupert Murdoch, etc.

    The DDoS attacks are a spontaneous response by a group of irresponsible people with a large pimple to brain ratio, and according to Assange was not instigated by Wikileaks.

    Perhaps we should all just calm down and enjoy this historical, entertaining and once in a lifetime show.

    1. Roger Greenwood
      Happy

      "people with a large pimple to brain ratio"

      Is the phrase of the day.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      take it!

      "The DDoS attacks are a spontaneous response by a group of irresponsible people with a large pimple to brain ratio"

      Do you have any idea what your talking about? It really doesn't sound like it!

      Why are these people irresponsible? Because they are supporting the release of information which affects us all. Grow up!

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Pirate

        RE: take it!

        "....Why are these people irresponsible?...." Voluntarily signing up for a botnet that spams some of the most powerful financial institutions in the World? Naive. And then being stupid enough not to check that it's not broadcasting your own IP address? Incredibly dumb. Not realising your trendy political stunt (which you stupidly assumed was at no personal cost) could leave you with a criminal record? Priceless!

        I'm betting any botnet code that leaves the IP address unprotected is also poorly coded, allowing any of the experienced botnet masters out there to gain control of the self-infected PCs and load them up with all types of less-noble zombie software.

    3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      RE: Rush of Blood to the Head

      ".....people with a large pimple to brain ratio...." Genius! That is all, please remain calm and carry on.

    4. Turtle

      Something else that is stupid...

      Here is something else that is stupid: your post, and your failure to read the link which I pasted into my previous post.

      Let me repeat the salient points:

      1) Cryptome calls WIkiLeaks a "criminal organization".

      2) WikiLeaks is funded by George Soros, using intermediaries.

      3) Soros would not fund WikiLeaks unless he was receiving a return on his investment.

      4) According to Cryptome, WikiLeaks is a commercial organization, selling "leaked" material to whoever can afford it. (I would attempt to explain the difference between WikiLeaks and Rupert Murdoch to you, but it seems that you are not capable of understanding it.)

      5) WikiLeaks put what must be assumed to be the unedited Iraq files on their server, and threaten to release the password, thereby making any Iraqi who cooperated with the US a hostage. And no one knows how many people have the password to the file, or the circumstances under which someone will release that password.

      6) We have been told that the password is a "common phrase". Cleverly, this would tend to mean that the password is weaker than it might otherwise be, thereby putting the lives of the Iraqis mentioned in the files even more at risk.

      7) The *clever* course of action for any Moslem fundamentalist or any anti-American group, or intelligence agencies from Pakistan or Iran, would be to assassinate whatever WikiLeak insider(s) they can find. If they can disguise their involvement (not too hard to do, I should think!) this would cause the release of the the password, and permit free access to the identities of the Iraqis, enabling them to be persecuted and killed whenever it would be either convenient or expedient.

      YOU might find this entertaining. *I* don't.

      MY feeling is, that if WikiLeaks is going to act as an anti-American intelligence agency, then I want them executed. And if they are going to endanger the lives of Iraqis who think that a US-supported government is either the best, or simply least-bad option, and who, for having had the courage to act on this, and as a consequence must now fear for exposure for possibly the rest of their lives, then *I* want everyone involved in running WikiLeaks executed, either judicially or extra-judicially - I really don't care which.

      1. david wilson

        @Turtle

        As many may have gathered, I'm not Wikileaks' most fervent fan, but:

        1) I'm not sure I'd necessarily take cryptome's word on trust for everything

        2)+3) Even if 2) is true, it's possible he thinks (or thought) that it was doing a useful service (as it seems lots of other people did/do. Having more money than me doesn't make him automatically Evil.

        4) It'd be interesting to know what was sold (or on sale) to who, and how reliable the information source about that is, and whether the 'sold' information was then not publicly released. There'd be a huge difference between someone selling rights to an exclusive and the making everything public later and selling information to an intelligence agency and then keeping it all secret. Wouldn't a source smell a rat if nothing they'd handed on got published, and maybe try giving it elsewhere?

        5),6) You are making an assumption that files are unedited, and that they actually are on a server. Maybe you're right, but it'd be nice to actually know the real score before pressing the fire button.

        It's certainly possible that files and passwords are widely disseminated, but it's possibly in Wikileaks' interest to claim that even if it's not true.

        If you're prepared to conclude they're evil, you should at least be prepared to admit the possibility that they're also bluffing about various things, maybe even for relatively good reasons.

        7) If the outcome the Enemies of America +/or Democracy want can be caused by killing Wikileaks insiders, then why on Earth are you arguing that the best course of action is to kill Wikileaks insiders?

        Now, I'm certainly curious about Wikileaks, and I'm not claiming that Wikileaks *isn't* making money, or *never* offered stuff for sale, etc, since I don't have information to make that claim, but neither do I have information to make the opposite claim.

        However, I'd be very wary of assuming the worst and diving straight for the 'Fire' button, (as it seem they may say in helicopter school).

        Personally, I think that people should be held to account for information they deliberately release, or allow to be released through bad practice, and that claiming to be a publisher shouldn't entirely absolve someone of responsibility, even if it might change things somewhat, but as well as Wikileaks, I'd wonder about the responsibility of letting junior ranks get hold of and copy all kinds of supposedly highly sensitive information.

        Is there no trail of who accessed what document, or a system to flag up when someone starts getting hold of unusual amounts of data, or things outside their areas of expected interest?

        For Christ's sake, many years ago, a mate of mine used to work for a multinational domestic products company, and *they* had a system running to flag suspicious data access, just to keep their trade secrets safe. Are the lives of countless Iraqis less important than how much dye gets used in one or other brand of toothpaste?

  21. Jeremy 2
    Alert

    Methinks...

    Methinks that they may have bitten off more than they can chew this time. Launching DDoS attacks against ACS:Law (etc) was like poking fluffy kittens. Doing the same to Visa, Mastercard and PayPal is like punching a pitbull in the bollocks.

  22. Nigel Brown
    Thumb Up

    ....pimple to brain ratio

    Oh boy, when I've cleaned the coffee off the screen I'm going to have to subject some of the junior gunts to that one...........

  23. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Age of Criminal Responsibility

    The Dutch age of criminal responsibility is 16. If this 'mafia/terrorist' had been just a year younger then he would've been 'bullet-proof'. It would be interesting to see how the Dutch judiciary handle a few hundred thousand tweenagers taking similar actions in solidarity. There are far more important financial targets in the Netherlands, as the genuine hackers there know.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Danny 2 Ref:Age of Criminal Responsibility

      "The Dutch age of criminal responsibility is 16. If this 'mafia/terrorist' had been just a year younger then he would've been 'bullet-proof'."

      He probably was a year younger when he came to thier attention, they've just been biding thier time...

  24. Pearl
    Heart

    Amazon and Paypal Need Competitors

    "Unfortunately with our reliance on our credit/debit cards and buying tat on eBay through Paypal or getting most of our Xmas shopping through Amazon, boycotting these companies is futile."

    Au contraire. They are the first and biggest but not the only games in town and more are coming. Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Let's move our business to companies that our more inline with our beliefs and less prone to political intimidation.

    Eg. ZashPay lets you send money via e-mail or text message. Account setup is free, as is receiving money. Works only if your bank is signed up but they are expanding.

    Online purchasing and financial transactions are here to stay but Paypal and Amazon need some competitors because, now since the Wikileaks storm I and many others are looking to go elsewhere with our business.

  25. James Woods

    ha

    I maintain an array of servers that are brute forced on a daily basis. There is no government to help me 'make calls to people'.

    I can make the calls all day long myself and accuse people of illegal activity but throughout this wikileaks ordeal the word illegal has been thrown around a little too much.

    At least here in the states you are innocent until proven guilty so even if you rape a girl in front of a news station with video rolling the news station cannot say you raped the girl. All they can say is you are 'accused of'.

    I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

    All this is doing is showing how the power structure paypal/ebay/visa etc... all have the government working for them. And the reason is obvious.

    The ISC (a registered 501 non profit) has been providing PayPal.com with DNS resolution during these attacks. It's unknown at this time if the ISC provided DNS resolution to them prior to these attacks but if another non-profit were to get involved in things like this it wouldn't be good for them when the IRS reviews the records.

    You can't have non-profits such as the ISC who play a key role in the internet (being the ones behind bind) providing services to private corporations under a non-profit blanket.

    Health insurance companies for the most part are non-profit because they are required to provide/donate a % of free services to the community.

    Google funds Mozilla (a registered 501 non-profit under the blanket of development).

    There is nothing that protects the ISC for providing DNS resolution to a large corporation if it's not going to do the same for other businesses in this country.

    If I want to use my internet connection to run one of these loic's or whatever that's my choice isn't it? If my internet provider wants to terminate me because of it that's their choice isn't it?

    Since when did the governments of this world become the cyber police? Did we all dun goof?

    The bankers rob and steal from us, nothing happens.

    You run some kind of lazer and the cops will come a knockin i guess.

    Keep that american flag hangin outside, we're free.

    1. Lionel Baden

      oh how

      If I want to use my internet connection to run one of these loic's or whatever that's my choice isn't it? If my internet provider wants to terminate me because of it that's their choice isn't it?

      God how i Wish it was like that !!!!!!

      but anyway here so far from the exchnage my measly 0.45 upload wont make any difference.

    2. Mephistro Silver badge

      Right on the spot, Mr. Woods

      I just wrote a comment with similar thoughts. Could have saved the effort with a 'ditto'! :-D

    3. Tom 13

      @James Woods: Please use a portion of your next paycheck to buy a clue.

      You clearly know absolutely nothing about Federally registered non-profits in the US. If you did, you would have taken the 30 seconds it took me to look them up and see that they are a 501(c)3 organization and included the full designation in your post. Because IIRC there are about 14 different classes of 501 non-profit organizations that can be registered in the US. And they all have different rules for what they can and cannot do. Most people tend to think of the 501(c)3 which is allowed to give people letters certifying donations made to them are tax deductible. They also tend to get discounts from vendors when purchasing things (and the ones from MS are HUGE). They are required to show that most of their money comes from membership fees or charitable contributions.

      The key element for them however is not that they don't make money. It is that none of the OFFICERS of the corporation or its Board of Directors earn no income as a result of the operation. If that weren't true AARP would long ago have been ravaged for tax dollars given the size of their insurance business and senior citizens discount shakedowns. In fact, if you hire sufficiently clever lawyers you can even spin off profit making entities connected to your 501(c)3 group which funnel money to the 501(c)3 just as long as the 501(c)3 doesn't funnel money back into the profit making corp.

      And if you go to something like a Social Group 501, you can do even more. You just don't get the same tax deductible tax bennies for your members.

  26. TeeCee Gold badge
    Coat

    Ouch!

    "....the Low Orbit Ion Cannon tool........takes no steps to conceal their IP addresses."

    Shooting yourself in the foot with an Ion Cannon? That's gotta hurt......

  27. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    WTF?

    "Low Orbit Ion Cannon"?

    Puh-lease! As if anything thus named could be anything but the dribbling of some half-skilled script-kiddie? I am gobsmacked that anyone with half a brain would willingly load their PC with code carry such a name. TBH, your best bet in court is to plead insanity due to diminished responsibility, as you'd have to be a few buns short of a bakery. This whole exercise seems to be some form of Darwinian selection for those too chromosomally-challenged to have a connection to the Internet.

    1. Titus Technophobe
      Thumb Up

      It does look like that.

      This appears to have been written in C# which should tell you everything you need to know. Also when looking at the project on Source Forge, unlike legitimate stress testing tools, all of the comments suggest that this 'tool' has been used primarily for just these sort of activities by the Hacktivista.

  28. Bernard M. Orwell Silver badge

    LOIC

    Low Orbit Ion Cannon is a reference to the PC Game "Command & Conquer". Some of you may have heard of that.

    Oddly, that game is something around 16 years old, which makes the assumed demographic of the attackers kind of interesting...

    1. david wilson

      @LOIC

      >>"Oddly, that game is something around 16 years old, which makes the assumed demographic of the attackers kind of interesting..."

      But surely it's named by someone who wrote it, not by everyone who uses it.

      I could write a program and name it after an obscure band I saw in the 70s, but that wouldn't necessarily prevent ankle-biters from running it.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just wondering

    How do you determine remotely that a member of this botnet is actually participating in a DDoS attack? I can see how a botmaster's traffic might be suspicious, if analysed (but they'll be using proxies I assume), but for the individual won't the traffic just look like they're sitting at their browser repeatedly clicking on a link because they can't get through?

    Of course, if this guy was running the IRC that'd be different. But in that case it doesn't necessarily mean anyone else is in danger of a visit.

    Does it?

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    kid played the game

    and lost.

    First rule of committing a crime: at least *try* not to get caught.

    Kids these days, eh?

  31. FreeTard

    Tor?

    Surely if they had any sense they'd use tor at the very least.

    Not that I'd condone that sort of thing, anonymous/4chan are total twats after all.

  32. Imsimil Berati-Lahn
    Megaphone

    !!Godwin's!!

    Has anyone called Godwin's yet?

    DestroyAllMonsters was first I think. "...brown shirt worms..."

    moonface the next obvious one with the Dutch kids in secret annexes.

    Keep up the good work guys!

  33. Mephistro Silver badge
    Grenade

    Something I really need to let out:

    Please, all of you Elreg readers & commenters discussing the ethics -or lack thereof- of what Assange/Wikimedia is doing, please, stop looking at the finger. There is a big mountain behaind the finger, and that mountain is the cables themselves. Being only a small percent of all the cables, and having been 'censored' by big media, some of the cables still make our hair rise. Many flavours of corruption, not only in the USA ,but also in the rest of the world. Child prostitution in parties for government officials and private contractors, drug smuggling sponsored by the governments, corporate theft, links between politicians and gangsters, weapon smuggling, you name it. Please, take a long look at these cables and consider *all* the ethical implications of the actual situation and consider whether you should be lambasting Mr.Assange, or trying to create a better world for ourselves and our children by removing the origin of the problem.

    And for those who say "Meh, we all knew this", please consider the difference between 'knowing the situation' and 'having proof' of who did what when. Now 'we' can compile a list of culprits, to try and remove them from power or send them before a jury for their crimes.

    For all I know, Mr.Assange could breakfast on virgin's blood every morning, sell drugs to kids and send Goatse links to kindergarten children and *still* -even inadvertently- be doing something good for mankind. If you ever have a furuncle, leave it on it's own and see if it cures itself spontaneously. ( ***Warning: I'm not a doctor, this is not medical advice and if you die or lose your health as a result of following this fake advice I'm not responsible for your death. Thanks***). In this -admittedly poor and even gross - metaphor, Assange/Wikileaks is not the furuncle. Corruption is.

    </rantmode>

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, the mountain is Assange, Wikileaks, and Soros.

      Assange is a known anarchist, like many of the people who visit Anonymous. His intention isn't to reform government, it is to destroy it. Finding and leaking corruption documents further those ends. So do the attacks Anonymous is launching against legitimate businesses following legal government orders. The attack follows the Marxist directive of Top Down, Bottom up, Inside Out, Outside In. Assange and Wiki push from the bottom. Everybody gets scared, angry, violent, and desperate. Then the masses call out for someone to stop the chaos and the government closes from the top. All coordinated by the likes of Spooky Dude George Soros who has already run multiple scams against countries to devalue their currencies and profit from it handsomely.

      The two Swedes accusing him of rape are also known anarchists. One of them with a known penchant for honeypotting men to accuse them of rape and ruin their lives. No need for a CIA setup here, it's all in the Illuminati card game: All weird is opposite and all fringe is at the extreme of weird.

  34. Blitheringeejit
    FAIL

    @AC 06:04

    >>You can't just disrupt the service of something just because you don't like their actions.

    So although people didn't like what Mr Hitler was doing in 1939, that didn't give them the right to go disrupting those who provided his supporting services? That explains why US companies invested so much money in German businesses in the 1930s...

    1. Jeremy 2
      Stop

      As a conversation grows in length...

      ...the probability of a comparison involving Hitler and/or Nazis approaches one.

    2. david wilson

      @Blitheringeejit

      There's a cab here for a Mr Godwin.

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