back to article Intel chief: Obama (still) driving US off cliff

Intel CEO Paul Otellini believes that the US is heading towards a second-rate status as a technology leader, and it's the Obama administration's fault. "The next big thing will not be invented here. Jobs will not be created here," unless government policies are changed, Otellini told a Tuesday gathering at the Technology …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Oh no!

    A CEO of a repeatedly racketeering anti-competitive monopoly cannot build factories in the US as cheep as he can in China, therefor he says we will loose lots of factory jobs.

    Okay, so what if we do what he says, and protect the large incumbents, cut their taxes, and allow them to continue racketeering against their smaller rivals:

    * Smaller less subsidized companies go out of business

    * Consumer prices climb

    * Innovation moves to China and India

    * The US looses lots of high paying office jobs

    hmmm....

    1. Ascylto
      Big Brother

      A Pedant Strikes

      "we will loose lots of factory jobs."

      What has setting free factory jobs got to do with this?

      Or, did you mean "lose"?

  2. Adam Williamson 1
    FAIL

    Cynical.

    Just another illustration of the shortcomings of the 'world economy'. Otellini's happy to take advantage of the, erm, highly business-friendly regulatory system of China. Next question: when are you planning to move there, Paul? I bet it ain't any time soon.

    Of course, to the masters of the universe who run big companies, the answer's always 'everywhere should be like the country which gives my business the most tax breaks', but only so long as somewhere which doesn't do that exists for them to live in and raise their kids...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have no problem with this.

    I have no problem with outsourcing low-paying, dangerous jobs to countries like China. There's a big difference between running a factory and knowing how to design and build that factory. It'll be a long time before the Chinese figure out how to design state-of-the-art computer chips by running our factories for us.

    Future dictator's note: It's easier to control a population if you give them everything they need to be productive, but not tell them how you got the information in the first place. They'll be nice and happy, since they have food and work, but you can still kick them down if they get too uppity.

    At my university, about 90% of the students in the graduate computer science and computer engineering programs are from outside the US. About 85% are from India and about 84% are utterly useless. Sure, we get a lot of students from other countries, but a lot of them are stupider than the freshmen undergrads we get. At least the undergrads pretend they want to learn. The few Chinese students we get seem to be reasonably intelligent and studious, but there aren't that many of them here.

    But, hey, it's nice to see that he's thinking of building new chip factories. Last I'd heard, Intel or AMD was actually closing factories, cause there just wasn't enough demand.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      racist much ?

      I work with some non english guys in a tech job. And when anyone complains about their language skills I ask them if they can do the job in english

      When they say no, I tell them to STFU as the guy from china or india is doing it in a 2nd language.

    3. LOL123
      Megaphone

      Me and My Microcosm

      Sorry to break it to ya! As much as you think you know how populations work, Prof Dictator, understand that the best Indian and Chinese students head for the States and have no reason to bother with the UK/EU.

      So you're left with those who couldn't make the cut, trust fund babies, and those who want a shorter Master's course and/or dislike American culture.

      1. david wilson

        @LOL123

        If you actually read the AC post you seem to be referring to, the guy appears to have been talking about the quality [his perceptions] of overseas students in a particular university in the USA.

        Still, I'm sure that it makes you happy to believe that the only reasons for a student might go anywhere other than the USA are that they're either not good enough, too idle, or that they actually hate America.

        Possibly you might try and recognise that despite the undoubted world-class reputations of some leading USA universities, there are places outside the USA which are also pretty highly rated.

        Though I guess if /foreigners/ were involved in making those judgements, you could find them pretty easy to dismiss or ignore.

        After all, foreigners are only really failed immigrants, who must by definition be dumber than you are.

        FFS, some of them *were probably never even forced to worship a flag* as children, and so probably can't even understand simple things like the concept of 'freedom' the way that you do.

  4. Lou Gosselin

    Second rate technology

    "Intel CEO Paul Otellini believes that the US is heading towards a second-rate status as a technology leader, and it's the Obama administration's fault."

    The US has been heading towards a second rate status as a technology leader long before the obama administration was in office.

    For over a decade, big business and government put the pedal to the medal offshoring technology and jobs in hopes of being competitive and maximizing return on investment. It's only in recent years we're beginning to see significant the ramifications of that behavior. Maybe corporate headquarters did well, but everywhere else the US has lost a lot of ground with offshoring and lack of investment.

    Otellini is partially right to blame the government, but corporations including intel need to share the blame for failing to invest domestically. Did anyone really think that funneling investments overseas would not affect the domestic ecosystem?

  5. Goat Jam
    Pirate

    Shut The Fuck Up Otellini

    Innovation and wealth generally come from the bottom. Startups in garages will always be the inventors of the next big thing. This scares the crap out of you of course so what you are demanding is that governments do more to protect the incumbents such as yourself from being nibbled at from below by upstarts.

    Companies like intel and Microsoft don't give a toss about innovation, they just want to further entrench their own stagnant business models and protect themselves from the true innovators through government mandated artificial barriers to entry.

    1. Curtis
      Big Brother

      liberal foaming at the mouth

      "Innovation and wealth generally come from the bottom. Startups in garages will always be the inventors of the next big thing."

      Thanks to the current tax structure in the US, as of 2011 the typical "small business" will now be taxed at a far higher percentage of their income than even a mid-sized corporation. Due to the way they are structured "sole proprietor" and similar methods of starting a small company while limiting liability to the founder's personal assets, these businesses will be taxed at the personal income rate. So, a small business that makes more the $200K per year will be taxed nearly 33% as income tax. On top of that, you have health insurance costs that have been driven up 25% in less than a year, unemployment insurance costs that went up, in some states, 400% in the last 2 years, and local municipalities adding their fees and taxes on top of that.

      Mr Obama is a theorist. He has wonderful "theories" that are based on academic assumptions and stances. He forgets that yes, small companies create jobs. Small companies have 2 sets of customers - the average end consumer, most of whom work for larger corporations (startups and small companies cannot afford to offer competitive wages due to the difference in volume of sales) and the corporations themselves. If the consumer cannot afford to buy your product, and the corporations cannot afford or do not want to buy your product, you are out of business.

      Keep in mind that the mass exodus of jobs started when the government started forcing corporations to have higher and higher overhead for their local employees and the current crop of liberally educated business majors started cooking the books.

      Too many people think of "Big Companies" as the enemy, instead of thinking of "Big Government" as the thing to watch out for. After all, Intel, Dell, AIG et al will not tax away a part of your income to curb behavior that they don't like-and since they don't like it it must be bad for you.

      The US Government is the only entity that can take a million dollar company with 0 overhead and run it into the ground within 12 months due to over regulation and trying to squeeze every nickle and dime out of the public.

      Not that this political diatribe will see the light of day.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Americans

        I love the way you guys say anything other than rampant capitalism is liberal.

        1. DZ-Jay

          Anonymous Cowards

          I love the way you say "you guys" and clump everyone into a single stereotype.

          -dZ.

          1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

            Re: Anonymous Cowards

            Yeah, best to avoid that, really.

      2. grantmasterflash

        A shred of proof would be nice

        "Due to the way they are structured "sole proprietor" and similar methods of starting a small company while limiting liability to the founder's personal assets, these businesses will be taxed at the personal income rate."

        This was ALWAYS the case!!! I've had a sole proprietorship for nearly 20 years and we've done our taxes exactly the same way each year and that will continue. What's irritating is that people like you point this out and claim it's something new. You also think that someone making $200k a year would have a sole proprietorship. What kind of idiot would not be incorporated at that level? Generally once you break $60k you incorporate. My health insurance costs have not gone up. It's easy to make up numbers...

        "Keep in mind that the mass exodus of jobs started when the government started forcing corporations to have higher and higher overhead for their local employees and the current crop of liberally educated business majors started cooking the books."

        Perhaps ONE example would be nice or maybe Rush Limbaugh didn't provide any proof. The mass exodus started happening when we moved all of our corporations out of the country because people work for $3000 a year in China and people in the U.S. make on average $46,000. Look around... It doesn't matter what government we have our corporations only worry about the bottom line - making money. If the average income of the entire planet was identical we'd have those corporations making stuff here.

      3. PT

        Can't disagree

        The tax rate on small business and self-employed is iniquitous to the point that it's not worth working*. However, I fail to see how this is the fault of the Obama administration - it's the way things have been forever. Those bold tax-cutting not-liberals we just threw out of office could have done something about it, if they gave a fuck; but they didn't - forgive me then if I dismiss their current enthusiasm for small business as cynical electioneering. So, Obama hasn't done anything either? I'm shocked - SHOCKED! Damn it, the man's had 18 months and it's not like anything else has been going on.

        * Except for the increasing number of jobs that are now being done for cash

        1. Tom 13
          Flame

          I'm calling bullshit on the simple statement that your healthcare costs haven't gone up.

          Mine have gone up by more than the rate of inflation every year for the last 20 years except this one. And the reason they aren't going up this year is the plan the company offered last year got so damned expensive they couldn't afford to offer it to me at twice my previous contribution. So it actually got switched out for and HSA which may or may not cost me more than last year. Won't know until the end of the year.

      4. Funkstain

        @Curtis

        Interesting comment on Obama's "theorist" tendencies. Couple of questions for you:

        1) Aren't all economists, and thus people who make decisions based on advice from economists, theorists?

        2) Wasn't the main, conservative (republican, if you like) US and UK economic movement in the 80s based on Friedman's theories, which proved to be spectacularly wrong (in essence that the "market", when left completely to itself without any regulation or interference, self-regulates; an idea which wonderfully ignores human drives)?

        More on topic, I'd like to understand better from Otellini how exactly he can save a $B in factory costs in "almost any other country in the world" if it doesn't in fact come down to labour costs. Did anyone question his figures?

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        re: liberal foaming at the mouth

        "Not that this political diatribe will see the light of day.", giggle, shades of the tards mocked on ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com..

      6. Tom 13

        Mostly right. Your description of the government problems is spot on.

        The bit you missed is that Big Companies these days are mostly in bed with Big Government because it is easier to pay off, I mean donate to a candidate who can then pass laws that inhibit or prohibit competitors from cutting into your customer base. We saw this when Big Pharma and Big Healthcare Insurance were the first ones to sign off on Obamacare after they ensured their own profit streams. In short, Fascism at its finest, only when I say 'Fascism' I mean it's technical definition of Government controlling the country by controlling key parts of Big Business, not the usual libtard definition of 'I don't agree with what you are saying.'

        Not saying you won't find any Big Companies that are actually engaged in the American entrepreneurial spirit, just that they are damned rare.

    2. asdf Silver badge
      Flame

      well said

      Bravo. But come on its not like we need to make anything in America anymore. We have the Chinese to do that for us. Instead our brave new world will be selling worthless paper junk bonds to each other that keeping getting so complex that eventually even the quants don't understand them. Heres to yippies in the early 70s showing the true face of Wall Street by throwing hundreds of one dollar bills onto the floor of the NYSE from above and nearly causing a riot. Give me, Give me.

    3. Luke McCarthy

      Startups

      So higher taxes and excessive regulation helps startups how exactly?

  6. Ed Deckard
    Grenade

    I guess he can't do double-entry

    At the end of the day, tax breaks, subsidies and other "incentives" equal gov't spending.

    How can this clown support one and whine about the other without a massive case of cognitive dissonance?

    1. TheSteve

      not quite...

      Tax breaks and gov't spending have equivalent direct effects on the gov'ts funds, but if you really think that "not taking money from you" is indistinguishable from "taking money from you and giving it to someone else", then I'd be happy to be the recipient of all your money...

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. wim
    Thumb Down

    Japan

    Looks like Otellini wants a Japanese system.

    The government protects businesses. The reasoning is that if businesses prosper their employees also prosper. Sadly that is no longer the truth here.

    Japanese businesses also have found the way to maximize profit is to minimize costs. This translates in nobody getting hired as a real employee but only as temporary workers. I know friends who have been a temporary worker at the same company for the last 5 years. Being a temp does not oblige the business to pay for health insurance nor pay raises, nor bonuses.

    Now that the economy is hurting bad in Japan too consumers don't buy and manufacturers are blaming consumers for the failing market. Of course nobody buys anything anymore they don't have the money since paychecks have been cut.

    Large businesses record monster profits but the population is becoming poorer. I can see Otellini liking this since he is in the large business part.

  8. famousringo
    Pirate

    A quick summary

    Intel chief is upset that Obama's stimulus spending isn't subsidizing his particular industry.

    Pirates, because huge multinationals will take whatever they can get from a government, then sail away for richer seas.

  9. Mark 65

    Tax

    Maybe China should just up its taxes a bit so he only saves $0.5bn and they bank the rest.

    He should remember that taxes can change very quickly when needs suffice but multi-billion dollar factories are a bitch to relocate.

  10. Arctic fox

    The Democrats and Keynes Mr Otellini?

    Whose version of capitalism brought us the two biggest economic disasters in the history of capitalism, roughly about eighty years apart? The second of which blew in about two years ago? I'll give you a little clue, Keynesianism had nothing to do with it. J M Keynes' analysis arose as a _response_ to the first time the bastards succeeding in frakking us all over on a global scale and his thoughts were/are completely rejected by their politcal/economic greatgrandchildren who frakked us all over on a global scale for the _second_ time recently.

    1. Tom 13

      The Demoncrats who insisted on socialist banking practices and wouldn't

      let Bush correct the programs initiated by Rahm Emmanuel et al when they ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack under Bill "can't find my pants" Clinton.

      1. Arctic fox

        Oh please do give us a break from the idea that.....

        ......America's problems are due to sosialism!

  11. JonHendry

    Bush administration gave business everything it wanted

    Business had 8 years of fellatio from the Bush administration.

    There wasn't much job growth outside of government, defense, and the real estate bubble. The stock market is about where it was 10 years ago.

    Frankly, I think you could give Otellini everything he wants (dumping chemicals in rivers, etc, like in China) and he'd still bitch, and the US would see no benefit.

  12. PT

    (untitled)

    Otellini is incorrect that the US is heading for second-rate status - it's already achieved that as far as domestic industry is concerned. Maybe he meant third rate. Certainly Government policies need to be changed to correct the situation, but I doubt if Ortellini would like the medicine, which would be a shift in taxation policies away from favoring unearned income such as capital gains and stock dividends and making it more rewarding to put in an honest day's work actually making things in the USA. The present situation, where managements prefer to pay themselves in stock and thus pay a lower tax rate than their receptionists, has been the driving force behind decades of internal asset stripping with the objective of pushing the stock price higher and higher. Now with the stock market looking distinctly wobbly and the specter of dollar hyperinflation feasting at the door, these vultures expect the government - sorry, the taxpayer - to step in and rebuild the industrial base they gutted in pursuit of private wealth. After all, they claim, we did it for the banks.

    I'm not quite sure how blaming the Obama administration figures into this, but then I guess it's an election year. Perhaps if things go Ortellini's way in November, then after the new representatives have been introduced to all the lobbyists and taken their free trip to Israel, maybe they'll direct the Federal Reserve to print a bail-out for Intel too.

    1. yeehaw.... Silver badge
      Flame

      Nice.

      Interesting to see that anti-semitism is alive and well out there in Britain....

      I swear.

      What is so difficult to believe? The US said a long time ago, "Never Again". That some believe in the principle that a country should keep it's word? Not find excuses to break that word?

      Damn, if the same crap happened to Britain, we'd be there too. Doesn't matter who. We're usually there for some reason or another. I would prefer we wouldn't because we screw around too much - there's much to be admired with your basic Roman Legion... lol

      And no, not a republican or democrat - Maybe a Constitutionalist perhaps. I vote for the guy/chick who doesn't strike me as a moron.

  13. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Arctic fox
      Thumb Up

      @StrongType. Let us also hear it for the......

      ..........Canadians whose "boring" and rather regulated banking and finance sector (so long the butt of many a joke from the masters of the universe on Wall st) survived the recent "unpleasentness" rather well.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @StrongeType

      The likes of BMW / VW who ship more out of Deutschland than sell at home were damn lucky the sillly Brits and Yanks were buying with credit otherwise they would have no car industry to speak of. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Calm down

        ..China will be the most important VW/BMW/Mercedes export market in less than three years at the current growth rates.

        Then we have India, Brazil, Russia as export markets. All quite peaceful countries who don't start wars for nothing and have finance under control.

        Actually we have to isolate our financial system from the Anglosaxon one, as we will otherwise be infected by the next plague being invented in NY and London.

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      @StrongType

      That was a real tonic.

      A sort of Teu-Tonic.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Sorry

        ..to break the new to you, but it was the idiots of NY and London who brought the world economy on its knees recently.

        If you wanted to rape the state financially only thing to do was to hand out a big credit to a broken company at 12% interest, pocket your bonus of 2% and then take out a "credit insurance contract" with American International Group who would "insure" that credit for 3%. Only that AIG never had the financial strength to *really* insure that credit. Instead they went belly-up and the government had to step in with hundreds of billions.

        "Insuring" a credit is an unheard-of stupidity here and that's why we are really pissed off with Anglosaxon finance. I could go on to write about Lehman "moving" their liabilites off their balance sheet during certain times (quaterly reports) and thereby effectively Cooking Books.

        I am sorry, but any Chinese Banker generates more trust in me than your Bankers. The first one knows he will go to jail (or firing squad) if he rapes the state.

        1. phoenix
          Thumb Up

          @StrongType

          Good point but if we had pulled it off it would have a classic move. Markets are a risk and poeple only yelp and cry when it goes wrong and forget the massive amount of tax the city pays when it goes right. It isn't great but thats at Tertiary economy for you. Congratulate yourself that you still have manufacturing base that we dumped years ago.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not just with technology...

    The U.S. economy is also falling off a cliff with incresaing unemployment, lowered home sales, few new jobs, drop in consumer purchases and confidence, etc.

    You can fool some of the people some of the time but the jig is almost up with a double-dip recession being acknowledged by friends and fow of Bama-nomics.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      Chickens Coming Home To Roost

      One American commentard on The Economist always argued that saving money is "hoarding" and thereby immoral behaviour.

      Probably because "hoarding" does not contribute to that hot straw fire which AIG & Co lighted up.

      The stunning incompetence of the American (and British, Irish) government(s) to control finance is now translating into *real* job losses.

      The refusal to spend money on training workers makes American workers little more than very expensive illiterates. Here in Germany everyone gets vocational training for two or three years, including rigourous exams. Haircutters, policemen, bakermen, machine tool mechanics, car mechanics, nurses - all have vocational training and proper exams. This is done in the workplace and State Schools (called Berufsschule). It costs quite a bit, but made Germany a world leader in cars, tool machines of all sorts, munitions plants, main battle tanks, highest quality optics, chemicals and lots of other things.

      Those who do not take vocational training go to university, of course.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship

      According to wikipedia, we have 342 different vocational-trained occupations here.

      That's the reason why all wealthy Americans buy an VW,Audi, BMW or Mercedes and avoid GM like the plague.

      Maybe Mr OBama could get the troops back home and help educate Americans ? Less glory, smaller number of mutilated limbs and more economic strength on the long run.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @StrongType

        Having a ton of money pumped into Germany after the second world war to rapidily improve your manufacturing capability had no hand in this of course. Unlike the UK who has paid back every single cent to the US for all the lend lease equipment she used in the war to remove your manufacturing capability ;-)

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge

          AC@15:03

          Actually the UK used their money to set up most of the Welfare State.

          The German approach does seem to have worked out quite well for them. But then Germany values engineers and gives them status more akin to *other* professionals like doctors, lawyers and accountants.

  15. wraith404
    Thumb Up

    he has one thing right regardless...

    Obama is an idiot that's driving the US off a cliff. In November we take away his keys. Take that to the bank.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    List Of Official German Apprenticeships

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Ausbildungsberufen

    (Google translate might help you)

    Some of the jobs might seem superfluous and over-specialized, but others are a core reason for German industry being able to produce complex products at very high quality levels and competitive prices.

    Not all is perfect here, but in the last quarter the economy grew by 2 % and unemployment is on the levels of the early 1990s.

    1. Brendan Sullivan
      Go

      When in the early 90's?

      Not to be too pedantic but, from when (and possibly where) in the "early 90's" are you comparing employment figures? As I recall the period surrounding the opening of the border between the DDR and the Bundesrepublik and the ensuing reunification of East and West Germany was not a great time for German employment figures, unless you are using pre-reunification Bundesrepublik employment numbers. Things certainly picked up fairly well not too long afterward.

      Regardless, I do have to agree that the Germans do seem to have things right at the moment.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    snakes belly?

    Last year: "A new semiconductor factory at world scale built anywhere in the world, starting from scratch, is about four and a half billion dollars. That is in the United States. If I built that factory in almost any other country in the world, where they have significant incentive programs, I could save a billion dollars."

    TRANSLATION

    I want public money to build the plant and provide jobs.

    I'll cream the profits and everyone else can go to hell.

    When I'm making $Bn's I'll keep it for me and not pay my way.

    Most businesses are morally bankrupt.

  18. Paul Smith

    Falling behind

    "...He also told his audience this year that the US lead in technology training and research has dissipated. "We [once] seemed a generation ahead of the rest of the world in information technology. That simply is no longer the case,..."

    Recent surveys have suggested as much as 40% of the US population may belive the Earth to be about 10,000 years old. I am sure that figure has been grossly exagerated but even so, these are not the people who are going to come up with the next technological breakthrough, are they? Oddly enough, these are people are not typically Democrats either.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Paul Smith

      Religious beliefs effect your capacity to invent in what way? Not another subscriber to "Dawkinsian" sudo pyschology. Islam gave us the roots of mathmatics, geometry and science which was carried foward by by believers of the Jewish and Christian faith such as Newton, Einstein.

      .

      1. david wilson

        AC (understandably)

        >>"Islam gave us the roots of mathmatics, geometry and science which was carried foward by by believers of the Jewish and Christian faith such as Newton, Einstein."

        Islamic enlightenment helped rescue Greek scientific and mathematical work, and also fostered (in some scholars) a desire to understand the world, rather than simply believing what some authority figure had told them, as Christians at the time were doing.

        While individual (actual or supposed) believers certainly advanced learning (at a time when people were pretty much required to be a believer or pretend to be a believer), they frequently did so in the face of zero encouragement from religious people, and often in the face of downright discouragement, potentially lethal discouragement at times.

        People who believe in 'biblical facts' rather than actually trying to understand things that people rather brighter than them have actually learned about the world and can demonstrate to anyone willing to listen are probably less likely than average to be advancing the boundaries of human knowledge, even when they don't have an active contempt for knowledge or intelligence, as unfortunately many of them seem to have.

        I'd be interested to hear your explanations of how orthodox (small 'o') a believer either Einstein or Newton were?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Pint

          Staying AC

          I take yopur point that there are a number a of frankly raving people with in most faiths that would preclude them from making any meanful sense in the world. But there are others through their beliefs compelling them to do so, adding a great deal of knowledge to the world in fields that they have entered to discover waht they believe to be the wonders of God. I am not going to list them as there is a much hearsay about believing scientists as is this about regiligous nutters.

          People see religion through the ages as a control of people and some how this is more lamentable and open to scorn than say the followers of NAZism, Soviet Socialism and colonial land grabs. People in power either through religion, Kingship or poltics have always bent people to their will for good and bad. Is religion bad? Is politcs bad? No. The use to which to you put the controlling influence of mass numbers of people can be.

          As to Einstein and Newton - hearsay maybe no one knows for sure and within modern science again difficult to calculate when many keep their faith quiet in the belief they will not be scorned by the so called more elightened non beliver put forward by the likes of Dawkins.

          Beer for it is the weekend

  19. blackworx
    Dead Vulture

    Dear Reg

    The waaaaaahmbulance icon is now long overdue for this kind of corporate bibble. Please fix this tout de suite.

  20. Daniel 1

    I sometimes think Obama is the best thing that's ever happened to the republican movement

    His existence allows them to make racist statements, while pretending that they are personal attacks.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    National Pride

    It seems that the more money and power someone has, the less patriotic they become. This idiot is just an extreme example of this. All he cares about is money despite being responsible for many thousands of American livelihoods. The larger or richer an organisation is the less taxes they seem to pay. The combination of these two factors impoverishes America, a country they claim to be supporting and love. How do they work these things out in their minds? Maybe in the same way a violent husband continues to live with his battered wife. Ultimately it is all her fault of course and he is only doing what he can because he can.

    If they paid their taxes, kept and created more American jobs and operated above the law, maybe they could regain their pride and become a good example.

    Intel used to stand for Intelligent.

    PS Why are German cars being made in other countries such as Poland if all is right in the Fatherland? Why are German cities becoming bankrupt? Was ist die wirkliche Wahrheit?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Go

      German Cars Made In Europe, The US And Elsewhere

      "PS Why are German cars being made in other countries such as Poland if all is right in the Fatherland? Why are German cities becoming bankrupt? Was ist die wirkliche Wahrheit?"

      I guess the reason is economics - Polish workers are cheaper than German workers and their skills are "good enough". Still, the most difficult stuff like motors, gears and injection systems are mainly done in Germany. Also, I really like the idea of an integrated European Economy. The Penis Length Fights of the 19xx years are hopefully over.

      Look at VW and you can see a European Corporation: The core is in Germany, but many strong brands like Seat (Spain) and Skoda (Czech Republic) are making great cars outside Germany, based on VW "platforms". VW is even manufacturing some cars in the UK (e.g. Bentley).

      Some German cities like Duisburg are indeed badly administered, because the did not make the transition from heavy to newer industries. Others like Munich, Stuttgart, Dresden or Hamburg are doing excellent. In general, bankrupt cities in Germany are the statistical abberation.

      Then look at Airbus - 50% of Large Aircraft and on par with Boeing. Another great Euro Company.

      Ariane - the most successful Commercial Space Launcher. The result of French/European Industrial Policy instead of Banker's fumbling.

      1. Arctic fox
        Thumb Up

        @StrongType.

        Thanks for a whole series of intelligent posts in this thread, a great deal to "chew on" and none the worse for that. I for one appreciate it.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Evil government spending

    "I don't necessarily think that all this spending by the government is what will save the economy."

    Yes all that evil spending on the ARPANet, Federal Highway system and the Armed Forces is really bad for the high-tech sector.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Oh god, no, an american politics story

    The only thing guaranteed to cause more predictable, ill-informed small-minded kneejerk foaming around here is a story about Apple, which brings out Webster Jr. and friends.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    I too, must sadly point out.

    America is rapidly becoming a third-world country.

    The business types move whatever high-paying, technical jobs they can overseas to lands of lower wages. This creates a disincentive for U.S. youth to study technical courses.

    Road construction, when it is done now, takes two the three times longer, costs an insane amount of money $800,000 U.S. for a strip of two lane road of about 1000 feet. (think 3 soccer fields, end to end.) Also, is not as quality of a job as it was even when I was a boy.

    Education-today's youth are more interested in fluff than stuff. As a nation, I fear we are entertaining ourselves to oblivion.

    Health care-don't get me started here. My father-in-law is a doctor, and my mom was a nurse. Think rank and file folk like them were asked as to how to reform health care? Hell no! Instead, who does the decision making on what health care should be in the U.S.? Lawyers, politicians who don't have to take part in whatever systems they set up, and money-hungry pharmaceutical companies more interested in developing treatments than cures.

    Immigration-people who want to come here, and improve themselves, and their families, who may not know what passes for English around here, but may want to learn it, are treated very differently from the terrorists that took down the Twin Towers and part of the Pentagon. Those guys were here with the approval of the government.. They all had valid visas. This brings me to the next topic.

    Justice. It's bought and sold here by corporations and the wealthy, just like any other worthwhile commodity, leaving the poor with whatever's left. We need judges who are passionate about their jobs, and who can make wise decisions in their courtrooms. Sadly, most judges are not this way. Some blame it on the positions being elected, but that hold's no fell swoop say over the situation. The truth of the matter, is that most judges were lawyers first. With them, I can move on to the final topic.

    We are now a litigious society, where anything bad is always somebody else's fault. It is to be expected with the amount of people practicing what passes for law here. And, it is the human condition to always want to appear blameless.

    Ancient Rome had about 500 years. Unfortunately, my country will be lucky to see half as many.

  25. Highlander
    FAIL

    I always want to ask folks like this a question.

    What the hell is the difference between cutting corporation taxes or granting you big corporations tax exemptions and the government spending money to stimulate business? Both cost the government money. But the thing about a tax cut is that it's a permanent drop in income to the government, where as spending happens once, and is not a permanent reduction in government income.

    Funny how his tune has changed despite the fact that the Obama government has not materially raised taxes on anyone or anything - yet. It's almost like he has a political agenda? But why would a corporate get involved in politics? Surely the government of the people, bu the people for the people needs no corporate involvement? Oh, wait, that's right, the US Supreme Court had a senior moment thanks to 'W' and granted corporations many of the rights of a citizen. Corporations are people too now...

  26. cmaurand
    Linux

    He's right, sort of.

    Reducing capital gains is not the answer. During the 50's and 60's capital gains tax rates ran at 90% and the economy was booming. However, there are tax incentives that should be removed from the equation, such as those providing tax breaks for offshoring jobs. Intel, as well as companies like Motorola and IBM have been closing down R&D here and moving them to China. Motorola moved 4 out of 5 R&D centers to China. All one has to do is look at Germany to see how its done. Germany's tax rates aren't low and they aren't working on slave labor wages, either. Airbus as an example is not good since they are heavily subsidized.

    Ortellini is proposing more of the failed policies that got the US to where it is now. We shouldn't be going back to them.

  27. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Down

    I smell corporate welfare looking for a handout.

    These guys 8alwyas* had the idea of governments (*any* governments) asking them for more but are always OK with asking for as much as they can get.

    What moron started the idea of *helping* companies *move* their R&D offshore? Let them by all means (free movement of people) but *help* them?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Don't be daft US!

    We've tried that here in the UK under PM's Maggie Thatcher and John Major (back to basics anyone?)

    All that happens is that a helter-skelter spiral into cheap and nasty becomes universal and wham (as in W-H-A-M!) all that happens is for the majority of people the essentials such as food, clothing and accommodation take up the bulk of income.

    Smaller, entrepreneurial enterprises fail and fall faster than a heavy neutron into a black hole (but that did not matter too much at the time provided UK tax offices managed to get a slice of the business whether it failed fast or slow).

    As soon as more money was circulating faster within the UK economy then entrepreneurs managed to make a reasonable living again without having to wait on bank loans or heavy government funded support to stay in business initiatives.

    A Keynsian approach can only ever be a transient approach however one danger is to hope, pray and hope again that government funded administrators don't line their pockets far, far, far too much based on heavily influenced performance indicators favouring that they get huge income increases (a bit like investors milk funders well government appointed administrators milk funding streams).

    Plus (ever a plus!) look out for government funded initiatives to provide services to people becoming perverted to such an extent that the primary beneficiaries are the employees themselves rather than the (good?) intended service users.

    Examples in UK: NHS, local authorities, ...

    Notice that in the UK a restriction on government funding always means a reduction in services to end users usually with employees sustaining high incomes with ever protected working practices (TUPE anyone?) and very rarely mean a systematic analysis in order to deliver services to end users at a competitive rate.

  29. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Incentives..

    He says that his factory in Korea costs $0 to operate. In other words, the Korean gov't is paying for all those salaries, AND for the actual operating costs of the plant. They could literally save money by not even having a plant, and just keeping all those people on the dole -- except this would look bad in terms of having higher unemployment.

    Anyway... I always laugh at all the finger pointing. I'm a libertarian, frankly the Democrats and Republicans both have no economic sense -- both parties blame the other for out-of-control costs, while in fact both want big, expensive, and intrusive government; they just both argue over WHAT new programs to spend cash they don't have on.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Imponderables and inconsistencies

    The trouble with Keynsian approach is that it assumes a static model when in fact it is a dynamic model. For example, once an administration is set in place the null situation has been and will be influenced by self-interest in the administrative structure itself. This is what has undermined the UK.

    The null state assumes no administration is needed yet subsequent dynamic developments mean that the administration becomes far too important, costs far too much and is assumed a negligible cost in any business analysis.

    That is not to say that the intentions are poor just that the means of delivery tend to be undercosted.

    On the other hand alternatives assume a period of pain before gain usually based on indeterminable human creativity and initiative. But (a great big awful and aweful B-U-T) is that any reduction in spending sloshing about really has a terminal effect taking a nation into a lower league and a lower class.

    I suggest that a transient Keynsian approach will work PROVIDED that costs of administration are kept minimally low otherwise a dynamic development into an admin lead society follows in which costs cannot ultimately be met.

    There! Don't say I didn't tell you so!

  31. Trexdad

    Government costs

    A good example of why a US datacenter would cost $1Billion more than overseas would be the upcoming Tier 4 diesel standards that are being implemented no where else in the world. The prices of standby diesel generators (which data centers buy gobs of) will increase by 50% for very little appreciative improvement in air quality. The problem isn't taxation or regulation per se, it's capricious taxation and regulation. It's constantly changing taxation and regulation. Businesses do not do well in uncertain environments. The Obama adminstration management of the economy is a case study in uncertainty.

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