back to article Vista-hating Microsoft throws poo at Apple's iPhone 4

Microsoft really, really hates its dud Vista operating system - so much so that it can now openly badmouth its own product while taking a bitchy stab at Apple and its current iPhone 4 antenna woes. The company’s COO Kevin Turner took to the stage at Microsoft’s annual partner shindig yesterday to offload some snarky soundbites …

COMMENTS

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  1. MarkOne
    FAIL

    You can tell when it's Microsoft time to launch new products

    Time to badmouth and spread FUD about the competition.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    re : "despite the problems with iPhone 4, customers still desire the product"

    That says more about the customers than it does about the product - they're more interested in the thing looking good than minor considerations such as the product actually working correctly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      ...because

      Because Apple would never do that. Hi I'm a Mac, and I'm bloody great me and this is my shit head of a friend of a PC and take from me he's a fucker.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @Vicky

        Did they ever mention Micro$haft ever?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Grenade

          Hi I'm a Mac and I'm taking the mickey out of PC because he's running... Linux Mint. Uhh...

          Are you seriously suggesting in all of those I'm a Mac, I'm a PC ads they were not having a jab at Microsoft?

          What were they decrying then, Linux? Somewhat unlikely.

          Don't get me wrong I quite like Mac OS X, but Windows 7 is also really nice. I'm just saying if you dish it, you gotta be able to take it too.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Vicky

        Did they run those adverts outside of the US?

        That style of advertising is pretty common in the US, whether it's Apple vs PC (+Windows), Verizon vs AT&T (+iPhone), Acura vs Toyota or Andrex vs Cushelle. In short, everyone does it. IIRC, MS did their own ones when Vista was around and they were a laughing stock.

        I've never seen an Apple advert on TV in the UK, but then I don't live in/around London, so there are a great many adverts I haven't seen for all sorts of things.

        I think those X vs Y type of adverts are frowned upon very seriously by the ASA, particularly where they make subjective or difficult to substantiate claims. Look at the recent hoo-har over who has the "best" 3G coverage, for example.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Badgers

          yes they did

          I saw the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC adverts in the cinema in the UK. They annoyed me greatly because they were blatantly wrong. One stated windows PC's lock up all the time and get viruses while it's impossible for Mac OS X PC's to have problems. While another said how PC's were for work and you couldn't play games on them, this before Steam was brought to Mac OS X.

          They were around for about 2 months before they went, I'm guessing the ASA had them pulled for being misleading/lying.

          1. ThomH Silver badge

            Pulled for being rubbish, actually

            For some reason they cast Mitchell & Webb in the localised versions, basically doing their Peep Show characters. So PC (/Mitchell) was about what they wanted, Mac (/Webb) was more like what Microsoft would want - lazy and self important. Or like they'd decided that the message should be "OS vendors are all a little rubbish"

            I think they do localised versions in quite a few countries. Or did, at least.

          2. PirateSlayer
            Jobs Horns

            D

            Unfortunately they did...and they cast British actors too. Namely the two characters out of Peep Show (in character). Obviously the hacks looking to generate that hideous, toe curlingly smug atmosphere which accompanies any Apple advert didn't understand that BOTH the Peep Show characters are deeply flawed. They had Mark as the straight PC and Jeremy as the 'Cool' Mac. As anybody who has seen the show knows, Jeremy is a loser who tries to be cool and epically fails all of the time.

            Apple adverts seem specifically designed for existing Apple fanatics and only appear to enrage or turn off other potential market. The smugness is overwhelming too.

            As for the games claim, I don't remember it but it is obviously complete bollocks. Good luck playing the latest games on an adapted laptop with a huge resolution screen...fail

    2. ThomH Silver badge

      No 'the' about it

      What was Microsoft's market share before Vista? What is Microsoft's market share now? Your attempt to draw a distinction between the buying habits of iPhone customers and customers of every other company simply doesn't work.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Dish the dirt - more please

      I'm liking this from Microsoft - They need to get a bit more aggressive!!! Take some notes from Apple who are the masters of this game.

      Yay!

    4. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: @AC

        Easy now. Simmer down.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          WTF?

          @Sarah

          Interesting you choose to allow the offenses and attacks to go on and on. Is this not about discussion? Because attacks and offensive statements kill discussion, full stop.

          1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

            Re: @Sarah

            Well, one man's meat is another man's... poo. Or the same man's, if you hang around for long enough.

            I think we can all learn something from that.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @AC2 "you know *nothing* of the criteria people use when buying an iPhone"

        Oh really? Funny that, seeing as I considered buying one and changed my mind because it doesn't seem to work correctly - it was one of the criteria for buying/not buying.

        "You know nothing and have no right to judge them."

        A bit like you know nothing about me but feel you have the right to judge me.

      3. Stone Fox
        Troll

        @ @AC

        LOL! Butthurt much? Did he hit a nerve?

        I'm not quite sure on what grounds you're going to deny that the Apple herd choose looks over function but I'd love to hear you try...

        1. ThomH Silver badge

          @Stone Fox

          Umm, it doesn't actually work like that. As in those crazy esoteric areas of life like science and law, the person making a statement has the burden of establishing that it's true. In all probability, if I were to claim that "In Summer 2003 you drowned a kitten" then people wouldn't think that must be true unless you can convince us that it's false. They'd ask me for my evidence.

      4. Ian Stephenson Silver badge
        Heart

        Re: @AC

        Dear Miss Bee,

        with regards to my comment http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/816073

        I rest my case.

        1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

          Re: Re: @AC

          Sorry, that's not a link and I can't be bothered to cut and paste it. But I'm sure you're right about whatever it is.

      5. sisk Silver badge
        FAIL

        @you know *nothing* of the criteria people use when buying an iPhone

        Let's think about this for a moment. "If I hold this wrong I'm going to drop calls. I want one anyway." Seems to me that it's pretty obvious that functionality is not high on the list of considerations here. That's certainly not Apple's failing. In fact I'd call it a win for them and an epic fail for anyone who's gullible enough to buy their products.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Sure we know folks criteria for buying APPLE

        Consumerist folks are *zzwhole top-2-bottom. They buy crap-product ... just because they have freely-disposable money to do so. And **you** don't. How prole can it be to worry about ANTENNA DESIGN. Feckin-A dipole this dipole that ... peon iPhoneLess scum ... eat dirt.

    5. JimC Silver badge
      Flame

      @more about the customers...

      Or maybe it just says that Apple have a better handle on what aspects of the product are important to their customer base than their rivals do...

      Lets face it, just how many of the products that this flakey industry we work in delivers can really be said to work correctly in every aspect. It really depresses me that people would much rather buy the latest version with more wizzy whatsits and even more bugs than encourage the vendor to make the old product work consistently and reliably. Everything about purchasing habits in IT suggest that wealth of features is far more important to the customer than lack of bugs.

      1. Bassey

        Seriously?

        "Or maybe it just says that Apple have a better handle on what aspects of the product are important to their customer base than their rivals do..."

        What? You're suggesting that Apple's market research has shown iPhone users don't really care if their products can make phone calls, send text messages or make data connections? Seriously? PLEASE read your comments before posting and have a little think about what you are saying.

        I'm sure there are a million and one reasons why people buy iPhones but "Hey, it'll make a great paper-weight" doesn't count amongst them.

      2. Axel
        Gates Horns

        Apple learned from the master

        Bill Gates pointed that out years ago.

        http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html?seenIEPage=1

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          well, this thread really makes sense now

          seeing as you deleted the comment that most of the replies are directed at...

          1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

            Re: well, this thread really makes sense now

            Oh no! Whatever shall we do?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Boffin

              Whatever shall we do?

              Imagine fast-paced banjo music playing while you read the thread. Works for me.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      D'oh

      Everybody seems to forget that the thing does work as long as you hold it like a normal human being.

      My TV doesn't work very well if I put it upside down or watch it with my hand in front of my eyes. Funny that.

      Just hold the damn thing properly morons.

      1. J 3
        Troll

        @D'oh

        And since when do phones come with a manual stating how to "hold it like a normal human being"?? If you did hang around human beings at all, you'd have noticed nobody needs instruction on how to hold their phones, they just pick it up any way the want and use the thing, no worries about not touching this or that corner -- my el cheapo phone that came free certainly didn't come with such instructions, and I've never paid attention how I'm holding it, which can be several different ways and either hand, depending on what I'm doing. Amazingly enough, it's yet to drop a call in two years of use. Funny, that.

        1. RichyS
          Thumb Down

          @J3. Umm, Nokia Do

          Well, Nokia do.

          http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/28/nokia-muses-on-grip-styles-says-you-can-hold-your-phone-any-wa/

      2. Doshu
        Troll

        Hold the phone

        The "normal human way"? Gratuitous insults?

        Hm. Thinking... thinking.... yepp!

        See pic.

  3. JimC Silver badge
    FAIL

    > "We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil,”

    That, my friend, is more than obvious!

    (sometimes you just can't resist shooting a fish in a barrel)

  4. Warren G
    Pint

    There's more than one interpretation...

    ... of "We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil".

  5. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  6. uninventiveheart

    Simple...

    Microsoft: The inventors of the slash-and-burn merger. (How much did Danger cost again?)

  7. Hieronymus Coward

    How about a free upgrade then?

    If MS are admitting that Vista is a waste of disk space then how about they offer a free upgrade to Win7 for all their Vista users?

    Would be a nice way to bring back some positive feeling about MS operating systems for many who feel a bit disenfranchised after having been lumbered with Vista and don't want to pay twice for the OS.

    1. LPF
      Paris Hilton

      @AC

      why do you care so much about a company , that buy your own figures only sells a pidderling amount?? awh too poor to afford one :(

      Parisd because she also knows how to respond to a whiny little bi*tch

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not so true

      Apple's products are a fashion item, but you can't dismiss their usability. I'm yet to use a touchscreen phone that's got the responsiveness of the iPhone, or an mp3 player that has the ease of use of the iPod's click wheel. Granted, iTunes is horrid, and marketing may be the drive for most purchases, but you are simply denying all the good things their products have.

    3. Seanie Ryan
      Thumb Down

      @AC

      whine whine whine ......

      fact is, I (and almost every other mac user I know) have NEVER bought an Apple device for the coolness.

      I know they dont "just work". Perfection in software / hardware from any manufacturer is pretty much impossible.

      But they do 'work' much better than anything else. I know I am much more productive using a mac than windows. I have to use both on an almost daily basis so its nothing to do with what i am familiar with.

      Now can you claim that you have spent years working on both, so that your post was an informed decision? Or was it just a jealous rant of someone who just fears the unknown so has to justify their own faults by masking it with a put down of others?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @AC re: diatribe claiming he is better than you

      What a bunch of shit you write, full of falsehood and obfuscation, but when you've got a position of offense, people stop at nothing.

    5. Little Poppet
      Thumb Up

      Response to Iphone purchases

      Apple has attained a status where I believe no other company has matched; whereby the everyday consumer actually desires these products regardless of it's deficiencies.

      The desire is irrational, you can't apply reason or logic to it, hence the success of the iphone4 even with the antenna flaw. That is why I think your prediction is wrong; I believe people will still covet Apple products and still purchase them in greater numbers.

      Very sad, unfortunately.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @AC

      "the reason why the iPhone is still selling is because people aren't buying a phone, they're buying a fashion accessory"

      Consumer Reports would disagree with you.

    7. DZ-Jay

      Re: iPhone purchases

      Well, that certainly explains why every review claims that the iPhone 4 is a great device--even those from from Consumer Reports and the like, which say that--other than the antenna issue--the iPhone 4 is the best smart-phone in the market.

      Perhaps most iPhone customers are buying the phone for *those* additional qualities, and enjoy them much more than they care for the so-called antenna problem.

      -dZ.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I second the emotion

      I agree with H.C. because unless Microsoft give me a free upgrade of vista to Windows 7 there is no way I'm buying another Microsoft product again.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        "give me a free upgrade of vista to Windows 7"

        I'd prefer a free upgrade of Vista to Windows XP. The only thing they'd need to do to make it "modern" is remove the 1 line of code from DirectX that says:

        If Windows version != 6.0 or 6.1 then: x = randint(1,64) print("you have error ", x, " bye") quit

        And similar code from all their other crap. But not IE9, no one cares if that runs on XP or not.

    9. Frank Bough
      FAIL

      It's been said before,

      ...but why don't you just get a fucking life already? Apple succeed; you fail; the world carries on regardless.

    10. Dante

      I third that motion

      Especially as I was forced to have it pre-installed on my laptop last year 'twas an extra cost to "downgrade" it to XP.

      I've already upgraded my older machines from XP... to Ubuntu.

      1. Player_16

        Count me in.

        Windoid people complained about OS X 10.6 costing $40 and said it should've been free; but I upgraded from XP to Vista home premium for $120 and that's a 2 hour ordeal. Now, it's lost all the ownership keys to all my programs -including itself- which means I have to reload EVERYTHING! That's a whole day! If I want to move up to W7, that's between $200 > $600! (W7 Ultimate)

        W7; Now THAT should've been free! (...or $40)

    11. Daniel 1
      Joke

      They should put up a few of these, around campus

      http://www.schneier.com/images/dont-commit-crime.jpg

      ...Just as a reminder, like.

    12. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Tombo

      >People buy the iPhone for the same reason people buy any Apple product- no it's not quality, they've always been full of defects, no it's not features, they've always lacked features compared to competitors, no it's not even usability because most Apple stuff doesn't "just work"

      Actually I buy the stuff for their quality and features.

      I also have a Thinkpad for my windows work. It's a piece of shit. They used to be good but now they aren't. It's running Windows 7. The switchable graphics driver crashes consistently and now it won't wake up from hibernate. Even if I hold it a different way, these things still happen. The docking station is nice though.

    13. Giles Jones Gold badge

      Nothing else "works" better.

      Apple's stuff largely does work better than the competition. Why? because the competition is driven by feature count or USP (unique selling point, adding a feature that the competition doesn't have).

      It's why the HTC phones are like swiss army knives, lots of ports, features and tools, but none of them particularly nice to use.

      When reading a review of the HTC desire I found it quite comical. Something along the lines of "when trying to phone someone, the first time the phone locked up, but it was fine after that". That's Microsoft quality, the old "if it doesn't work, try it again" line. The sort of shoddy quality we've grown accustomed to with Microsoft, "yeah ignore that error, the phone was just starting up, it will be okay once it has booted".

      Another thing I read which made me laugh was HTC Sync and how (a) it wasn't included with the phone and (b) when downloaded it found the phone but wouldn't back up the phone? backup software that doesn't work? that's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

      There's been bigger problems with HTC phones that have had even more angrier responses, but since HTC don't make the headlines much the press doesn't care.

      Sites like this give you an idea that things aren't perfect in HTC land either:

      http://www.htcclassaction.org/

      I'm about to get my iPhone 4 after nearly two years with my iPhone 3G. Before this phone I had about two phones a year on average, getting bored or frustrated with them, especially the lack of software enhancements.

      The big problem with phones is the hardware is often more capable than the software, but OEMs don't care about this as they only make money from the hardware, so they want you to keep buying phones even if you've got a really good piece of hardware already.

      I can honestly say the iPhone is the best phone I've had. Although I would have liked to see the Palm Pre do well as their OS looks much nicer than Android. It's good to have competition.

    14. FreeTard

      I'd love to agree with you

      ...but I just cannot. The only reason my desktop is not running linux (like my laptop) is itunes (and Civ4). I also find the itouch (I don't want a Jesus phone) a very nice UI which just works.

      I've never patched it past the 1.5 free firmware though, as I couldn't be arsed about apps / games, I just want to watch movies on a flight and listen to music. The Jesus phone pisses through the battery compared to the itouch.

      Smartphones I've purchased include samsung omnia (which is shite), palm pre (which is so good that the wife stole it - it really is a girls phone in fairness), so I've purchased an android phone 20 minutes ago to replace it. It had better live up to the hype.....!!!!

      Itunes is by far my favorite music organiser, far better than anything else I've used.

      1. Nanki Poo
        Pint

        @Giles

        Can't say that post makes much sense, are you having a go at HTC (one maker of phones on which Win runs, out of many others), Windows (which you don't mention much), or the HTC Desire (which runs Android)? Just to help, the story's about Microsoft.

        The class action site that's not been updated in two years didn't really provide any enlightenment, but it does show HTC responding from quite early stages (Apple silence anyone?).

        No particular position, am Linux lover, Win hater and never felt the need to try any Apple products (or Nike/Reebok/et al). Tho I am a technical user, so that does influence my choices, as obviously I can trust myself quite well.

        P.S. just checked around my Desire and it has two ports - mini USB and earphones... about the same as an iPhone I would guess. Unless "lots of ports" was supposed to be spelt "two ports that aren't proprietary".

        Nothing personal, honest, just that even amongst the rabid collection of comments on this thread, yours stood out. Have a beer on me...

        nK

      2. Cool Hand Luke

        Strange?

        That's strange because my HTC Desire came with the backup software on the SD Card. Granted I can't use it with my Mac, but it is there and it did backup my phone when I tried it on my work laptop running XP SP3.

        My iPhone 3G was also the best phone I'd ever owned until I got my HTC Desire.

        Why not try one for 7 days or so. Order from an online retailer where you can return the handset before 7 days are up and give it a try?

        I was going to do a back to back with the iPhone 4, but as none were available I just decided to keep the Desire.

        Apple's stuff just works better than the competition? Probably. But any better than a stock laptop with Win7? Doubtful. I reckon most of the horror stories around Windows are all down to the way on PC can be so different to another. It's easy to develope something for a Mac where the OS is the same, the h/w is the same, basically it's locked down. A PC can be any number of combinations, unless it's something like my mam's laptop that came with Win7 and will never be fiddled with.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Pint

          Tombo

          >I reckon most of the horror stories around Windows are all down to the way on PC can be so different to another. It's easy to develope something for a Mac where the OS is the same, the h/w is the same, basically it's locked down.

          I completely and totally agree with you. Most of the problems with the PC (or IBM-Clone as we used to call them) is third party drivers, and marketingware and all that. This comes from 3rd party hardware venders and generally not Microsoft's fault. The fact remains, from a customer's point of view, with the IBM-Clone, I have to deal with that crap much less than I do with my Macs.

    15. Player_16

      No you didn't...

      ...say '... your average Nokia smartphone tends to achieve such as the N95 with it's 10mill+ sales.' (You forgot to put a 'flame' icon AC 12:02.) When was the last time you heard about people waiting in a cue for a Nokia... ANYTHING? Has Nokia ever sold 2mill+ of ONE phone in less than 3 weeks? Do you honestly believe in what you wrote? Why was you allowed NEAR a keyboard? Is the library closing? Quality ... and technical merits? They virtually introduced touch phones and everyone else followed -damn the cost! And you don't believe a predictive 7.5mill in 6 MONTHS of ONE phone? Nokia only DREAMS of those figures!

      YOU ARE A TROLL!!

  8. hplasm Silver badge
    WTF?

    "We don't have a mission statement

    - to remind us not to do evil"

    And it shows.

    1. kissingthecarpet
      Gates Horns

      I expect

      Darth Vader didn't have one either.

      1. Rob Dobs
        WTF?

        Ghandi and Jesus had no such mission statement either.

        Yes MS talking about someone else's evil is kettle calling pot black, but your counter argument doesn't hold any weight.

        I think the posters point was that Google should be suspect themselves for having such a statement necessary. It implies they have an inherent desire to do evil, that they must remember to remind themselves of not to follow.

        And really Apple fanbois? Your going to really get so hot under the collar for the anti Apple people pointing out how bad of a track record Apple has with its early release products? Yet people line up still. I do agree with above poster though, nothing stays cool on its own despite the obvious reality. If Apple doesn't do a major about face on quality and openness, I do think they will continue to suffer, and will certainly loose market share. If they continued Apple's cool will die, I do think they will will about face, and change course before too long though. Watch for Steveo to step down soon under pressure from board to a Bill Gates style advisory role. Yes i just said that,

        sounds crazy with profits going through the roof, but the board fired this guy before, and his personality is starting to become a detriment for Apple image, If apple want to expand beyond the 10-20% fan market they need a new image.

        I don't think Apple will blindly continue on to obscurity though, they will right their path, and at least make them selves cool enough to stay a niche for a long long time.

        1. Stephen Bungay

          MIssion Statement and Google...

          "I think the posters point was that Google should be suspect themselves for having such a statement necessary".

          I think that the founders knew that the temptation would be present (and indeed it has manifested itself) and they KNEW that things would start to go off the rails (greed, human nature). I have no love for Google, but I do not vehemently dislike them. They have not caused me to spend hundreds and hundreds of [insert your currency here] on antiviral and anti-malware applications, Office suite licenses, and O/S "upgrades" that offer a downgrade at an extra cost. They have not broken my system with one of their upgrades, requiring days to get things back to normal, and they don't assume their customers are thieves or lock them out of their systems when a legitimate application glitches and "thinks" it has been stolen.

  9. Joey
    Gates Horns

    Sour grapes

    When will they ever learn. I was at the UK rollout of Win95 and Microsoft were equally (if not more) scathing about Windows 3.1. Somewhere along the line, they will slam Windows 7 too - and rightly too.

  10. MrAverage

    Recycle

    I remember being in a technology seminar in '96 where two flailing Novell marketing types spent the entirety of their alloted hour slagging off Microsoft and their products. Needless to say rather than putting us poor punters off buying Microsoft, they only really confirmed to me how perilously close to the void Novell was as a business.

    This to me is clearly signalling the final demise of the great Beast of Redmond . Rest assured, in no time at all it will be the great Cupertino's turn for a recycle...

    1. chr0m4t1c

      Yes

      Reminds me of a certain bunch of Red politicos a few months back who spent their campaign saying more about how rubbish the opposition were...

      It's a shame, really, NetWare was a pretty good technology.

      1. nichomach

        Title?

        NetWare wasn't; it had poor to non-existent memory protection between running processes and one got used to seeing abends a LOT. NDS/eDirectory on the other hand was bloody brilliant.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Google Mission slap

    He'd have bitch slapped Google more effectively if he had said "We don’t NEED a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil"

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil"

    I'm reminded of that every time I 'phone MS support and they insist on taking credit card details before they'll talk to me. "Don't worry, if it's our fault, we won't charge you!", they say. It's their fault (surprise). They charge me. I 'phone support to complain. They won't talk to me without taking credit card details. "Don't worry...", they say.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Alternate explanation

    "iPhone 4 might be their [Apple's] Vista."

    meaning an internally perceived good idea that sold badly because of some inherent issues. If Win 7 is MS back on track, then need only await Apples Win 7.

    1. Prag Fest
      Thumb Down

      Nope

      iPhone 4 is selling like shit off a shovel. It's only people on forums who dont even intend on buying the product that are getting upset about it.

      1. Stephen Bungay

        Problem with this is...

        The people who make the iPhone successful are uninformed, they see the shiny new toy from apple, they recall the fantastic user experience they (or their friends) had with the previous iPhone, they trust that things with the latest incarnation are only going to be better, and then they get let down.

        This, if not handled properly by Apple is either a disaster or an opportunity. Jobs is all about the end-user experience so he should (if he hasn't started to feel entitled and now looks at his customers as peasants) be kicking some serious butt about this glaring error.

        When you stop and think about this though it makes you wonder if it is an Apple originated problem or a manufacturer originated problem. The engineers must have known that the antenna loop needed to be insulated from contact with the skin, it is such a glaring oversight that seems like it was made by an ignorant individual, a business person with no technical understanding? Perhaps to cut production costs?

        In any event, the deed is done, the phone needs a fix, Apple needs to do damage control, be sweet and pleasant to their customers, find the cause of the flaw (how this happened), fix it, try to ensure things like this never happen again (lessons learned) and move forward. If they fail to do any of this they, no matter how popular, risk alienating newcomers who will probably never return, and sow the seeds of mistrust in existing clients.

    2. nichomach
      Gates Halo

      On the other hand

      I had about six different techies working on a particularly recalcitrant busted site connector in Exchange for me for about 4 days for £199 ex VAT; skilled guys, professional and very helpful. I'd call that pretty good value.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    MSFT is starting to get nervous.

    Let's see here.... A major OS upgrade (Vista) crashed and burned beyond belief. The reaction to Windows 7 is "meh" and "another cuppa XP, please, thanks". Infoworld says "Windows Phone 7: Don't bother with this disaster" right on the heels of the Kin crashing and burning to the point that people wonder if it sold triple-digit units. People say Ballmer is clueless and that the company's direction and strategy went out the door with Gates.

    Now they're down to badmouthing the competition. Wow. The only thing keeping them alive now is Office, isn't it? And I've heard little about any sort of coming-features update marketing for it.

  15. jake Silver badge

    Another point of view.

    Fanboism asside (and you all know who you are ... just admit it, you'll sleep better), here at Chez jake we've been microsoft, apple and google free for over half a year. Doesn't seem to have made our lives any drabber ... although, I must admit that I quite enjoy the lack of near daily routine computer maintenance on the home systems.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      So...

      ...what you're actually saying is...your PC broke down 6 months ago, and you haven't fixed it yet. Got you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Tombo

      Don't badmouth office, it's got the ribbon!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Im getting confused.

    There are too many people posting as Anonymous Cowards on this thread and its doing my head in!!!

  17. Winkypop Silver badge
    Stop

    Don't upset the Jobsian fan-bois

    You know how upset they get.

    1. Gareth Gouldstone
      Happy

      Re: Dont upset ...

      ... as opposed to the Gatesian fan-bois, who love being upset!

  18. Ned Fowden
    FAIL

    WOW

    fanbois out in force today

    *fingers in ears*

    Apple are infallible, lalalalalala, can't hear/read what you say, lalalalalala apple products are perfect in every way lalalalalala nothing you say can sway my mind lalalalalalala

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Tombo

      Or how about, "lalalala I don't want to hear that people like Apple's products because it disagrees with what I just said and my ego is super sensitive so I'll just call them stupid!"

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Dont upset the anti-fan-bois

    I've recently noticed that the back lash at fan-bois is nearly passing the strength of the fan-boi feeling. Not just here but anywhere that people discuss the pros/cons of Apple vs Anything.

    Back in my day you could rely on the fan-boi having that wild eyed rant that Apple was great. But now the worm has turned. The foaming mouth spittle comes from the anti-fan-boi in much more abusive terms than it ever did before.

    Maybe it just part of our culture that we dont like to see things going well or done right? Or that when youre being happy and enthusiastic you're polite with it. But when you hate something you have to be offensive while you do it?

    I know its probably too much to ask for a reasoned debate on the inter-tube whorums. But isn't it about time everyone realised that EVERY company has its good periods and bad periods.

    Remember SONY and their DRM. GOOGLE and the wi-fi snoop. DELL and their defective non-recalls. EXXON sinking a tanker. BP blowing out a well. SHELL and their faked reserve statements.

    Next month it'll be someone elses turned to ride the roller coaster of highs and lows. So why rant?

  20. Muckminded
    Thumb Up

    Only One Solution

    Tape.

    It apparently works on the iPhone. It works for Vista (if you tape-up your CD-ROM drive before attempting to insert the install disc). And, it would work for so many of the posters here if they would have a friend wrap it around them and a chair. A chair with an anchor tied to it. A chair with an anchor tied to it and a view of the BP gulf oil spill.

  21. Daniel 1

    "We don’t read your email"

    That's because even WE don't bother reading what's in our Hotmail accounts, mate!

    In fact, you're welcome to read it - buy some of the things they're trying to sell you, as far as I'm concerned, Mr Turner.

  22. Hans 1 Silver badge
    Coat

    Oracle fanboy on MickeySoft and Apple?

    Well, tbh, I happen to own an iphone 3G and it works fine, except for battery-life. I have it in a special case, just like my Blackberry before that. I imagine if I were to get an iPhone 4, I think I will when my contract expires, I will put it into a case as well, alleviating this antenna issue ... it is a minor issue compared to the HastLaVista fiasco ... If the anti Apple gang have found only that to be wrong with the iPhnoe 4, then I will certainly get one.

    I hate Apple as a company but I must give credit where credit is due....

    Mac's? best pieces of kit out there, by an entire league! - especially because of the OS. The laptops are so much better designed than lappies from any other vendors I've seen. Sony, HP, Dell, Acer, and Lenovo are all utter crap. My company HP laptop does not allow me to change the battery either, but without Apple battery management, this is just insane.... I owned a Powerbook Ti for 5 years, and after 5 years of intensive use both at home and at work, the battery life still exceeded that of new laptops out at the time - ok, the CPU was totally outdated and running the latest Mac OS a bit slow. And in 2006 it was still thinner than 99% of laptops from the competition. laptops in 2001, when I bought my powerbook, were two to almost three times as thick ... ;-).

    Somebody broke into my house in 2006 to take just that, not my dv video camera, not my mac mini, not my TV or anything else of value ... they came for the powerbook.

    I will stick to Solaris on my custom hw and my cute little iPhone ...

    Don't upset the fan-bois, you know how upset they get.

    1. Matt 13

      Ti-book...

      It still looks good - shut!!... and was a good workhorse, bar a few niggly details, mine was a gigabit Ti-book, so all the paint on the carbon fibre flaked off... then the hinges cracked and I would get electric shocks from the bare carbon which became more pronounced when i was hot and sweaty... but it was a lovely machine to use...

      My Powerbook 1.6SD also looks beautiful, runs lovely and apart from 2 superdrives, needing a new battery every other year was a good tool until the charging regulator gave up the ghost...

      so what is my laptop of choice now? a Panasonic toughbook with Win7! stellar battery life, un matched outdoor useability and so far no hardware issues at all... and this ones been dropped, soaked and used by my 2yearold!

      Apple, - meh!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Simple

      Ranting is fun.

      And i'll bet that many a vicious rant doesn't even reflect the real person's own opinions.

      But i agree that there can be a very fine line between ranting and trolling.

    3. PirateSlayer
      Jobs Horns

      D

      Apple fanbois are like unreformed middle aged lefties (who are actually biggoted right wingers).

      My friend who works as an Apple Genius used to be a commando Apple fanboy without a critical bone in his body. He now critically appraises the Apple products on the market and while he absolutely loves his Macbook Pro, Air and all his other toys, he thinks the iPhone 4 is a piece of shit and he is selling his iPad because it's a waste of space. This is a dedicated Apple fanboy, and he thinks the last two products that Apple have released are failures.

      Makes you think. Maybe Jobs is losing the plot.

  23. Robert Forsyth

    4 is unlucky in some parts of the world

    Four is an unlucky number in some parts of the world, so will not sell as well as it might with a different number.

    People have bought a phone, so it should be one eventually, even if the hardware is swapped to do so.

    I don't have an iPhone ( I have a Nokia 5800), and iTunes IS shite.

  24. Campbeltonian

    Hold it

    “You will be able to use Windows Phone 7 and not have to worry about how they hold it."

    You *can't* hold it. It's software. Not to mention, at this point, vapourware.

    Microsoft has strict requirements regarding what kind of hardware WP7 can be installed on (number and function of buttons, etc). Have they added a new requirement to the list, along the lines of "No iPhone 4 style antennas"?

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Yay

    I think ill-informed bile and flaming (from both sides) in this thread could best be summarised in the words of the great sage and poet, Eric Cartman:

    CRIPPLE FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

    Why yes, that is my coat.

  26. MikeHunt
    FAIL

    So, doesn't that mean...

    That if I put a bumper round a Vista PC it will work?

    1. PirateSlayer
      Coat

      Y

      You forgot your coat.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well ... each to their own

    Regardless of what you think of the product. Apple consumer devices are pretty much idiot proof. Part of this is because of the locked down nature.

    Give an idiot a windows PC and there will more more malware than you can shake a big stuick out.

    Anyhoo ... are MS saying that Vista was not fit for purpose ? Any chance of a free upgrade on my daughters laptop you bastids ?

  28. MarkOne
    FAIL

    I was going to get an iPhone4

    But didn't bother, not because of the quality problems, but because it's overpriced and under-spec

    The HTC Desire is twice the phone at half the cost.

    I predict right now, 2014 the iPhone (if Apple if still around then), will be introducing desktop widgets in iOS...

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Headmaster

    Vista Shmitza

    Vista was before its time: hardware that was enough for XP was not enough for it, the new driver model was better but the OEMs were lagging behind (I'm looking at you nVidia!) etc. If the widely well regarded Windows 7 had been released instead of Vista back then, the result would not have been different - the 7 is basically Vista plumbing with some optimizations.

    Vista has often been reviled time and again, yet it was not a financial disaster - it sold and sold well, mostly due to bundling.

    iPhone4 will sell well, mostly due to punters. Apple will continue to receive flack for its fascist approach.

    Mainwhile Android will continue its rise, gaining mindshare as well as market.

    I do think Windows 7 Phone is a bit too late. But we'll see.

    1. Magnus_Pym

      Vista/Win7

      Win 7 could have been released in place of Vista. There isn't much that Win7 does that couldn't have been done at the time. Even so it would still be less that Microsoft said Vista would have when it was announced.

      That is what pisses a lot of people off. They bought Vista thinking it was going to be Win 7. In order to finally get what they thought they paid for they must pay again.

    2. David McMahon
      Gates Horns

      Vista..

      MS Could have changed the UI, wallpaper, screen-saver and boot/shut down screens, called it Vista, still would have sold the same amount due to bundling, how many people rushed out and bought the Vista Ultimate??? How many people regret it?!?

      I saw an advert for a Vista disc it actually said "don't get Win7, stick with Vista"!

      If you look closely (especially the network settings) the Win2000/XP dialogue boxes are still in Vista/7!

      They are just buried behind more "user-friendly" dialogue boxes.

  30. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Won't somebody think of the chil.. users?

    Still don't know where I can get a nice compact phone that works simply and reliably.

    ...

    From ANY maker!

    1. Rob Dobs
      Thumb Up

      Palm Centro

      I think you can still get on one from Sprint in the US.

      Does video, picture, sound recording, and everything is simple and easy any phone number or email (anywhere, in a memo, todo list, or out on the web can be clicked to call or email easily.)

      It has office docs, a free 1024bit key password locking system, and lots of really great apps (all the palm aps out there)

      I have dropped and beaten it up, my wifes even survived a submersion. tough reliable phones, I will be very sad to get rid of it.

      Its small, but has a screen you can actually watch a video on, but will fit a shirt breast pocket.

      Best of all, you should be able to get it for FREE when signing up for even just a year contract, and a used one should be near free on e-bay. Battery will last for 2 days of moderate use before needing a charge, EVEN TWO YEARS INTO USING IT! (almost no life degradation is the most impressive.)

      Palm desktop lets you synce all your docs pics etc, and you can even sync it up with Ubuntu/Linux.

      It does not have WiFi or GPS - but I can't say I've ever missed them. Google maps always locates me withing a block and part of why the battery lasts so long (i keep bluetooth off too)

  31. Thorfkin
    WTF?

    Retardfest 2010

    God this article was a retard fest. Including the author =D Therefore I have come to join in the pointless poo flinging fun!

    Anonymous Coward @ Vista Smista, I fear your well reasoned argument will fall upon deaf ears here. Join us on our wheel-free train as we jovially paint our fell man with feces for his internet opinions!

  32. halms
    Black Helicopters

    whut?

    the mere existence of companies like norton, kaspersky, mc cafee, pc tools, etc, are obvious proofs of how microsoft is making more money than actually making their own products. that is why you will never get a stable and reliable product from microsoft. cause if they do, norton will be scaled down to making animated screensavers for your pc.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Why I bought an iphone

    Because I tried to use some of the others and found them clunky to use. Mine appears to "just work". Perhaps because I put my expensive smartphone in a case as most folk with a brain do or maybe I just don't hold it like I'm trying to squeeze ketchup out of it, I dunno.

    The thing that always gets me are the morons who think it's clever to deride folk that buy a particular product by ANY company. Seriously. Think about what you are doing. They have bought a PHONE. What the frack does it have to do with you what anyone else buys? Who cares. I'm happy with mine and if you think yours is better well good for you, I really couldn't give a flying fock. Take a chill pill, sit down and take a long hard look at yourself and ask why you have such rage at a piece of plastic and metal.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    iPhone 4 isn't fatally flawed

    Yes, the antenna thing IS a huge cock-up. It's an embarrassment and there's no excuse for it.

    But it's not like the phone is rendered worthless. Put a case on it and it becomes significantly better than the 3GS in all aspects except looks.

    If you're in the market for an iPhone, buying the iPhone 4, even with its flawed antenna, is a no-brainer. It only costs $129 more than the 3GS (including the price of a bumper case) and it gets better reception, better battery life, better performance, better camera, MUCH better screen, gyroscope, noise canceling headphone, front-facing camera, LED flash, etc.

    For $129 extra and an admitted sacrifice in the looks department, you'd be an idiot NOT to buy the iPhone 4.

    1. PirateSlayer
      Stop

      U

      I thought bumper cases had been declared iharam. Or was that screen covers?

      I shall ask at the iAlter later, but I am pretty sure I burned my bumper case when I was told to last time around.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mission statement...

    "We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil,"

    This is something M$ could use, but could never put into practice. I trust Microsoft to behave exactly as they are now behaving, and that is the extent of it.

  36. Derek Bradshaw
    FAIL

    returned to the MS fold

    "Elsewhere in his speech, Turner drilled holes into Mountain View’s cloudy rival to Microsoft’s Office software suite. He claimed that many customers had returned to the MS fold after trying out Google Apps and not liking it"

    B0ll0***

    Does not work at all on my Linux machine. States it requires M4 IE 6,7 or 8 on XP server 2003 or vista

    Or I can run it on Firefox on MacOS 10.2.x or later.

    Nope. I will be sticking with Mountain Views offerings. Truly cross platform on a PC..

    .

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    mission statement

    "That may or may not be true, but what should Microsoft's mission statement be in 2010, then?

    "Slag off the competition cos they're on our tail" perhaps?"

    Umm, more like:

    "Slag off the competition cos we can't release an adequate product, never mind a better one"?

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    So even Microsoft..

    admits that when people bought Vista, they were infecting their PCs with a 3GB Virus, so they should...

    A) apologize for the inconvenience;

    B) refund people that want to go back to XP;

    C) Offer free upgrade to Windows 7 to all people that proved that their machines got pre-infected with Vista, or infected the machines themselves.

    D) Tell you to s** it.

    And, it it wasn´t in the EULA any form of "no liability" clause, they should sue themselves, sparing us the hassle of doing it. (Ombudsman??)

    I believe they will do something similar to C, should they officially admit it. Otherwise, D is the right choice.

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