back to article Pressure mounts on Apple to recall iPhone 4

Apple is facing increased pressure to say there's more to the iPhone 4's antenna woes than iffy signal strength readout code and to recall all the handsets it has sold so far. Suggestions from some quarters that it may yet be forced to do so sent the company's share price down by more than ten dollars from $257.33 to $246.89, …


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  1. melt

    They might already be...

    Gizmodo (the new Slashdot) think they could be:

    It's based on one single report but they sound like likely fixes...

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Have you seen....

      the email address gizmodo are asking people to send reports to, wonder if they picked their correspondent just for that?!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    PR "specialists"?

    First, they're attention whores, and these "specialists" - one is a university comms head, like he would know the consumer market well, and the other likens it to Toyota which implies this is going to cause death.

    If you're going to do a story, at least solicit opinion from relevant experts, and don't create hysteria - it does your position no good.

    There will be no recall, and there is no need for one. For people who are experiencing it, refund their money, give them another phone (it seems intermittent among the phones), give them free bumpers, or tell them to live with it.

    One thing I do however agree - do something now!

    1. mego

      If you're going to do a story, at least solicit opinion [...]

      Hi Mr. Jobs,

      Sorry this didn't work out - happens you know. Suggest you stop posting AC and start fixing the problem, there's a good lad.

      Think on it. Pray on it. Come back to us tomorrow.

      1. Anonymous Coward


        You must work for Apple. That's the only way I can figure out that you are certain that the CEO of Apple is doing *nothing* about the problem. Although, the way some around here describe him as the anti-Christ, he must have powers that would allow him to snap his fingers and make this problem go away, so yes, if that is how you arrived at your position, then I see why you know he is doing nothing. That goes for the rest of Apple too, unless you think Steve performs every role there.

        Just as silly is all the people claiming he has a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders. You are absolutely right and might I call to attention the class action lawsuit - his lawyers will be advising him to say nothing while Apple figures out the best way out. You can thank the asshole that started that frivolous lawsuit for that.

    2. JaitcH

      Handsets are lifesavers; Recall the Lemons

      There are numerous incidents where these handsets have saved lives.

      Remember the female Brit who was in a Indonesian ferry boat accident who SMS.texted to her boyfriend in the UK and was rescued as a result?

      Portable electronics are vital these days. I have colleagues who work, often alone, in remote places who depend upon their communications devices, be they satellite or cell, as well as emergency beacons, to summonses assistance in case of emergency.

      A Lemon 4 failure COULD be a lifesaver and purchasers are entitled to expect them to actually work.

      1. Anomalous Cowherd Silver badge

        @ JaitcH

        I don't think I've seen a single Apple-related story where you haven't leapt up and started shouting about Lemons and iCrap and how Jobs is a liar and how great your other handsets are. Such vitriol! Did you choke on an Apple as a small child? Or maybe you're channeling the ghost of Webster Phreaky?

        Either way it's getting a bit tiring - if you want a rant, youbtube has a lovely comments section. You can capitalize as many words as you like.

        Ironic how a story about signal attracts so much noise.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down


        "A product recall is a request to return to the maker a batch or an entire production run of a product, usually due to the discovery of safety issues." (Wikipedia)

        Since there are workarounds for this problem, tell me where a recall is warranted?

        As for your phones save lives argument, I don't buy that at all for any number of reasons. First, most people will have moved to the new phone and have an old one, recalls (as you suggest) take the product back and return it in 4 - 6 weeks or longer if ever, the world got by without everyone having a phone for 1000s of years and we will again. You can't recall just the "lemons" as you say, as there is no way to identify from Apple's perspective which are faulty. If you rely on the user to tell you, then just allow them to return it for, as I've already stated, 1) a new phone, 2) free bumpers, 3) money back. There, and that avoided a recall.

        1. JaitcH

          So what is Walmart selling?

          It is hard to 'work around' a hardware defect with software. Type approval for RF components also prevents D-I-Y fixes by consumers.

          Whilst there are a lot of people remaining with older models, which are still endorsed by CR in the US, and Walmart's $97 iPhone 3GS is selling well, many adopters of newer models sell off there old ones..

          A recall is as simple as the method by which you acquired the original unit; defective product replacement is a routine procedure - some companies will ship a replacement against a credit card number and then reverse the charge when the defective unit is returned.

          Possibly humankind did survive without telephones and other modern conveniences but life has moved on - go ask Rebecca Fyfe, the British woman who texted her boyfriend < > for help if she agrees with your argument about saving lives.

          The bottom line is Apple foisted another defective product on a trusting public, obviously design/development/manufacturing testing procedures failed and Apple has a duty to it's shareholders and customers to do the right thing. Obviously the users make better quality control types than those employed by Apple.

          If you are prepared to accept the Lemon, this is a decision only you can make using your own criteria.

          1. Ted

            Software can fix Hardware 90% of the time

            No, software can fix almost all hardware problems, that's the magic of the silicon valley don't forget. You can always supply more power to the antennas if it senses a touch between the 2 antennas for example, so their are plenty of software fixes for something like this.

            No, the iPhone 4 is excellent, it just needs some adjustment. So learn to check facts before you post to a comment section. Thanks.

            1. Chris Parsons

              Best to understand what you're talking about before posting

              Go off somewhere and read how aerials, or antennas if you must, work. If by touching it you are grounding the incoming signal, 'supplying more power' isn't going to help much.

    3. Alex Rose

      Humanity is doomed!

      "and the other likens it to Toyota which implies this is going to cause death" and it implies that Apple have a problem with the brakes on their cars, and it implies that Apple are really called Toyota, and it implies that Apple are a Japanese motor manufacturer.

      Because the situations are not ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL we can in no way draw parallels between them.

      When will these so-called PR "experts" stop treating us like idiots who can use our own powers of deductive reasoning to work out that what they mean by comparing the 2 situations is that both could lead to the damaging of the company's reputation by a perceived unwillingness to address the problems quickly and honestly?

      OMG! By drawing parallels with Toyota they're saying that iPhone 4's kill users! LOL!!1!


      1. Anonymous Coward

        @Alex offensive

        The use of parallels where one is clearly a danger and the other isn't does nothing for the argument, but if you live in the world of hyperbole and irrationality (you know, where Chicken Little lives), then I guess that sort of argument might make sense to you.

        Nice one with the twat comment. Now give that girl back her gum and play nicely with all the other children, ya big school yard bully.

        1. Alex Rose

          hyperbole and irrationality

          Like claiming that likening the situation to Toyota's only works if both are life threatening?

          How you can sit there and claim my argument is irrational beggars belief.

          The fact that in one situation there is a danger to life and in the other there isn't has absolutely no bearing on the relevance of parallels drawn between their similarities.

          Not paying due care and attention to where you are going can cause an accident whether you are piloting a supertanker or driving a car - the fact that they are different vehicles, that they move in completely different media, hell, that the car may be fueled by petrol and the ship by heavy fuel-oil makes absolutely no difference to the ability of a rational thinker to see that a lack of care and attention can cause an accident in BOTH situations despite their differences.

          Apparently the world I live in is one where I'm subjected to unwanted irony.


  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's surely in their interests to recall?

    I was planning on getting one when my contract expires at the end of August but unless they've properly fixed it, there's no way I will. I'll hang fire and see what happens.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Get a desire

      A much better phone at a fraction of the price.

      + you don't look like a cluess cock that falls for anything that's hyped when using a Desire.

      1. Anonymous Coward

        @AC with the offensive attitude

        "+ you don't look like a cluess cock that falls for anything that's hyped when using a Desire."

        Or one could adopt your attitude, not get a phone at all and come across as an arrogant twat.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re: Get a desire

        This is actually becoming a factor. Just recently I've started feeling ever so slightly embarrassed when pulling out my iphone 3gs. Apple products, while once simply mumbling "pretentious" and "not very savvy", have started screaming "WANKER" and "SHEEP" in super-THX death-metal surround. I've actually started to regard people holding iphone 4's with a kind of disdainful pity.

        Personally, I'm really looking forward to the freedom of an Android phone, but as yet, the models available in the UK don't quite cut it. I'd take a Droid X anyday, but us Brits' money isn't good enough, it seems!

        1. Dave 142


          surely if you get another phone because of what other people think of you for having an iPhone that's just as pretentious and fashion conscious as you're worried about being?

        2. David McMahon


          Good points in one, Good work

      3. Sean Timarco Baggaley

        Of course...

        ... Google could never, EVER, be accused of hyping their products.

        Oh wait: they do. A lot. They even proclaim their Android devices as being more "free" than an iPhone, even though much the same terms and conditions actually apply. (Including this, from Section 7.2: "Google reserves the right to suspend and/or bar any Developer from the Market at its sole discretion." Sound familiar? At least Apple don't try and pretend this is "freedom".)

        So why should I buy one of Google's iPhone knock-offs again..?

        (And please don't witter on about iPhone 4 reception "issues". If this was such a major problem, EVERY bloody mobile phone I've ever owned should have been subjected to a product recall. And before you start typing your vitriolic reply, no, I've *never* owned an iPhone. My current phone is a Nokia 2630. Just as crap at holding onto a weak signal as every other damned phone I've owned.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Paris Hilton


          Actually, that clause is in every SDK known to man. Including Nokia's.

          As for your [quote] "issues" [unquote] statement; get a clue. The problem with the iPhone4 is that the design is such that the antennae is purposefully in the one place you're guaranteed to touch if you use a phone like a normal human. There is no phone out there on the market today which does this.

          As for your Nokia.. yeah, I feel your pain. Been there, done that, still got the headset. But I bet you the signal doesn't experience a big drop in connectivity when you hold it - or complete call drop - when it's got a perfect connection when untouched.

          Paris. Is there a wrong way to hold that?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down

        You don't? sure about that?

        Only a truly clueless cock would evangelise a single phone as the answer to everyone's smartphone needs over all others, or fail to notice the ironic amount of hype Google has generated around droid as well.

        Funny story - last night, in London City departures, every man and his dog was browsing on phones (and even ipads). Lots of iphones (even 4's), blackberries etc. The only one making a visible cock of himself was the HTC user swearing at the "f*ing wireless sh*t", as he performed a battery-out reboot.

        1. Anonymous Coward

          [...] was the HTC user swearing at the "f*ing wireless sh*t", as he performed a battery-out reboot.

          And was that an Android or winmo? Used both.. and I can feel his pain if it's the winmo.

          Or are you simply being facetious?

  4. Velv Silver badge

    Fixed Phones?

    Will the next version be the iPhone 4s - available starting sometime soon ?

    Add a couple of "new" features, and fix the problems in the background.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Paris Hilton

      The S is for Signal?

      As per title.

  5. Anonymous Coward

    What is actually going on?

    Are the wheels coming off the Apple Bus or is it simply a handful of whingers? I'm not sure, seen lots of people who said they're happy and same number who are not!

  6. Stone Fox

    "They are in danger of betraying customers’ trust"

    Too late.

  7. Gordon 10 Silver badge

    Put it in context - Forget the hype

    The fact remains most people are happy with the Iphone 4. At this point a probably half would be purchasers are already aware of the issues and still buying.

    I thing suggestions of a recall are insane. It just not that damaging to their rep. Fact is outside of the learned IT press such as el Reg Apple have a big enough consumer halo to avoid taking too much damage.

    Apple could get major Kudos by shipping the bumper free - it would make the issue go away for all but the most vocal minority.

    We need to put this in context with other smartphone releases :

    Nokia N9x series - generally dire on first release.

    Other Symbian - UI touchscreen/stylus general FAIL

    Blackberry Storm - clicky screen fiasco and poor performance

    MS - WinMo general FAIL., Danger/Kin fail

    Android - Nexus FAIL., that Jimmy Hill chin

    There are dozens of other examples. You cannot compare this current Apple issue to say MS or Moto's fails. Its a blip. Keep Calm and carry on......

    All the major players have had significant smartphone problems - why should be be surprised Apple is no exception?

    Not an Apple fanboi, just able to take the long view.

    1. Giles Jones Gold badge

      Handful of whingers

      US customers mostly, they are paying the price for Apple sticking with AT&T. Their GSM networks aren't very mature.

      Who can remember the few thousand iPad customers who had trouble with wifi reception, a few thousand out of millions. Probably a few thousand people with Belkin routers or some other less than great brand.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      @Gordon 10

      Well stated.

      "Not an Apple fanboi"

      No, but not vitriolically anti-Apple either, hence the Fandroid sheep blindly downvoting a cogent and well thought through post.

    3. Mr Brush

      Boing, Splat!

      > Android - Nexus FAIL., that Jimmy Hill chin

      That'll be the Hero, the N1 has a face as smooth as a baby's bum.

      Anyway, I'm off to find a comfy chair and some popcorn.

    4. Ted

      The complainers are Android users...

      It's funny, but if you notice all iPhone 4 owners are happy with the their new iPhone, it seems to be isolated to "Android" or non-users of the iPhone 4 that are "unhappy" with the iPhone 4. Think about it...

      1. Greg J Preece

        Think about it?

        "Think about it..."

        I have, and there are so many vast leaps of logic in your four lines of idiocy, that I can only assume you are well worthy of the moniker "fanboi."

    5. Greg J Preece

      Hang fire

      "All the major players have had significant smartphone problems"

      You can't say "significant smartphone problems" and then list "that Jimmy Hill chin" as one for Android, especially when that particular phone sold exceptionally well (and continues to).

      Also, unlike the iPhone, one phone not selling particularly well (the Nexus) makes little overall impact on the platform. There's dozens of Android phones and they're doing a roaring trade.

      Logic failure in an otherwise good post.

    6. mego


      >>Nokia N9x series - generally dire on first release.

      >>Other Symbian - UI touchscreen/stylus general FAIL

      >>Blackberry Storm - clicky screen fiasco and poor performance

      These are software issues - easily fixed by patches.

      In fact, the Storm 1 was so vastly improved between the first-to-market release and the last patch update that it's almost a new phone (yes, we have several Storm 1 users still, in various versions). The button sucks monkey nuts, true. But it didn't stop the device working well, and issues (broken/stopped working/etc) are still swapped out by RIM with no questions asked - even units bought at the first release.

      What's the hardware issue there that equates to the fail that is the iPhone 4G?

      >>MS - WinMo general FAIL., Danger/Kin fail

      Well, no surprise there. The concept was just plain crap to start off with. The failure was the concept though, not the device - which I believe worked quite well at what it was supposed to do.

      >>Android - Nexus FAIL., that Jimmy Hill chin

      Again, the problem is not hardware; in fact if some reports are to believed (eg then the Nexus' failure was nothing to do with the handset itself, but more to do with it's support and sales practices. I've not owned one myself, but having spent some time with one in the US, it's pretty decent and close (ish) to the HTC Desire which is one hell of a phone.

  8. Matt 13

    these are not the faults you are looking for........

    surely, for a recall, the phone would actually have to have a problem and it would be possible to recreate that problem under various conditions with various phones... and we know that all the so called 'tests' are just a great big conspiracy!

    But the phone is just perfect, I know as our lord Steve Gods has said so...

    (although it can be a little more perfecter for a paltry $29.99!!!)

  9. JaitcH
    Jobs Horns

    Lemon aid needed for the gullible

    Those gullible people who have bought 'California Dreaming' Jobs lies need help. Just like the owners of runaway Toyotas received.

    Jobs and Apple have both lied/misled their audience. Jobs has a fiduciary duty to his shareholders so claiming to be 'stunned', even if this is his actual mental condition, by saying the antenna hardware problem can be fixed by a software patch. What about the short-circuiting micro SIM holder?

    Read the Consumer Report on this Lemon product: < >. CR is a respected organisation with deep pockets.

    Strange how quiet Jobs has become since this plague of defects has surfaced. Obviously he has no answer - yet - and the longer he hides behind his corporate security saying nothing the more credibility he loses with customers and shareholders.

    Jobs has demonstrated how cheap he can be by refusing to send out complimentary plastic bumpers, claimed to be worth USD$1 at the factory door. Of course these rubber bands don't enhance the Lemon 4's appearance NEITHER does it fix the SIM holder or the other internal defects.

    So which government will be the first to strike a blow for their gullible citizens?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Silly me

    >The brand image is the most important thing Apple has

    There was I thinking the most important thing they had was their product line, oh hum.

  11. MarkOne

    A now endeth the lesson.

    If you build your product on PR and Hype, the same will destroy it.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    I know why

    "Whether that's a sign that punters simply don't care or are assuming the problem is minor remains to be seen."

    It's denial, at least for the three people I know who have bought (plus one who is "considering" buying) the iPhone 4 in the past fortnight. Each either simply refuses to believe there is any sort of problem, or grudgingly accept Apple's statement on the dodgy signal-bar software.

    The PR guy is right: image is everything to Apple. If these people begin to accept that Apple can manufacture defective products then the rationale for paying over-the-odds for their restrictive hardware falls over.

  13. Bruce Hoult

    recall and do what?

    I don't see how a recall is either possible or desirable. It's working as designed.

    Apple chose to put the antenna on the outside because it offers improved ultimate performance.

    If you don't know how to use it then you can, in a poor signal area, degrade the performance, but if you know how to use it then it will hold a signal where previous phones would not.

    This is like people used to automatic transmissions buying a car with a stick shift than then complaining that they're stalling or bunny-hopping or burning out clutches or over-revving the engine. And demanding that their car be recalled and an automatic fitted.

    It is what it is, and for valid reasons that some, including me, appreciate. If you like it then buy it, if you don't then don't.


  14. Malcolm 1


    Anecdotally, literally everyone know/have seen with an iPhone uses one of those ugly cases anyway so the reception issues when handling the phone 'bare' are probably a bit of a moot point.

    I've always found it a touch ironic that such an "icon of design" is so routinely defaced with invariably tasteless or just plane ugly rubber cases. Probably goes to show that people really don't give a toss about the looks (at least once it's out of the shop).

    I foresee a future of such elegantly sculpted, yet paper thin, phones that a sizeable "protective" rubber sleeve is required just to make it large enough to get hold of :)

  15. Sebastian Brosig

    cheaper than recall

    is a free roll of duct tape for every customer!

    1. Anonymous Coward


      Except when neither are true, the person posting such a false statement comes off looking just plain silly.

      1. Anonymous Coward

        @AC, Re: @MarkOne

        No they ARE true. Apple products are nothing more than average tech stuffed inside a designer box with a Fisher Price UI slapped on top. It's only PR, fanboy Hype, and marketing bullshit that allows them to sell sell so many units.

        Now look at what you've made me do - I've just defended a post from MarkOne. Thanks a lot, you AC prick.

        1. Anonymous Coward

          @Stike Vomit

          "you AC prick"

          Nice one, another position without substance, and the author resorts to ad hominems. Discussion halted.

    2. uhuznaa

      Consumer Report

      Yeah, still they rated it as the best smartphone they've ever reviewed. Things aren't as black and white as some people think.

      I think the proximity sensor issue is a real problem. Apple has to fix that (and it's probably a rather easy thing to fix).

      The antenna attenuation is a curious particularity of that design with an external antenna. This design has its advantages and disadvantages. I pretty sure that most people wouldn't like the iPhone to be larger with a plastic casing and an internal antenna and those who'd prefer that can easily add a plastic case/skin/bumper and then even have a wide choice of cases. Seems better to me than a phone with an internal antenna und a plastic casing already fixed to it forever. Why do you hate freedom so much? ;-)

    3. Anonymous Coward

      How is that analogy relevant?

      What you really mean with your car analogy is:

      A person used to buying an automatic transmission car, buys an automatic from another manufacturer and finds that it doesn't always change gear - or does so depending on whether they drive on an 'A' road or a 'B' road. If that person changed to a manual transmission, they expect to have to drive the car differently - that is surely not the case with a phone?

      In the case of the car with the faulty transmission, the customer would take it back for repair or refund and not restrict themselves to driving only on A roads (unless of course you love the manufacturer so much that you simply live with such issues).

    4. Dazed and Confused

      But where are they putting the duct tape?

      I thought they'd adopted a policy of silencing all criticism. Perhaps that is what the duct tape is for?

    5. Naughtyhorse
      Thumb Down

      what bollocks

      The antenna Iphone 4 is BADLY DESIGNED any twat who knows anything about radio will tell you that. you take a tuned system then loosly couple another alltogether different impedance load to the antenna, you no longer have a tuned system. (okay its still tuned, just tuned to a different frquency) Maybe they were just un-lucky that there were no southpaw, sweaty beta testers so the issue didnt appear until release. Maybe they never tested it in low signal strength situations. whatever. it dont work right, and thats cos they made it wrong.

      recalls USUALY are related to safety issues

      not ALWAYS.

      In the uk the key phrase is 'of merchantable quality' this clearly isnt, therefore apple are contravening the UK sale of goods act by selling it at all. a recall is the only way forward.

      1. Willum08


        "In the uk the key phrase is 'of merchantable quality' this clearly isnt, therefore apple are contravening the UK sale of goods act by selling it at all."

        In UK, also add, 'fit for purpose', which again it clearly is not!


    iphone recall

    good recall the damn thing maybe apple should of fixed this problem in the first place instead of given everyone a blank making out its the signal bars to blame. cant no company get things right haha i dont care anyway about apple and there fanboys motorola hit back at apple with there droid x saying you can hold it anyway without loosing signal haha that will teach you apple

  17. Giles Jones Gold badge

    Not bothered

    Mine's on its way and I can't wait. A friend of mine has one already and if there was any problem with it he would have asked me for help by now.

    People get paranoid about things when they're new, they see a mark and think it's a scratch or a dot and think it's a chip. After a few months they calm down.

    Whenever people upgrade software they sometimes test each feature and make sure it works. They often find something that has never worked and then blame the upgrade. Any upgrade or new device gets scrutiny. The iPhone 3G's reception was complained about by lots of people but it never got recalled. Much of the problems were in the US, in the UK the reception was poor because the O2 coverage is poor.

    Have people not got anything better to do than keep picking up their phone and prodding the antenna or squeezing the phone?

    1. James Hughes 1


      You need to pick up the phone to make a call surely. Just holding it in the normal way you might hold a mobile phone *can* cause the reception problems being discussed. You don't need to 'prod' or 'squeeze' to get the problem, just use it like, well, a phone. Which is what it is (I think the name is a bit of a giveaway)

  18. Juan Inamillion

    Experts say sky will fall in

    Really El Reg, links to other dodgy stories with even dodgier links...

    Professor Matthew Seeger - acknowledged 'expert'?. Has his name been associated with mobile phones before in this context? "Will be forced..". Really? By whom? Not promoting his own agenda by any chance is he?

    Chris Lehane - Who he? Not seeking to advance his political career is he? Well known in computing circles?

    'Consumer Reports' - I don't know this organisation but digging deeper it appears they have little experience in mobile phone market, more associated with domestic goods. Plenty of evidence that they're not terribly well respected either. And they changed their opinion - clearly indicating they did a crap job of testing to start with.

    Seems a matter of desperation by some by seeking out these non-people who appear to have very little relevance in the IT world.

    Sure there appears to be a problem with the iPhone and Apple haven't handled (?) it well. But it's not like exploding batteries, failing brakes and accelerator pedals, all of which have potential to do damage to life and limb. This is a problem which at worst can be fixed by a piece of sticky-back plastic.

    For fucks sake, get a grip... oh wait...

  19. DT
    Paris Hilton


    It's clear from the outset that you're looking to be offended.

    Seeing as you like original sources and dispose idle speculation, may I press you for the exact line which implies the 'phone may cause death? Does it also imply that an iPhone is handy for travelling to the shops in?

    The analogy with Toyota is pretty much spot on; they also told many customers that it was a non issue; that the problem was subjective, only occurred through misuse or existed in people's heads; and that damaged their reputation immensely.

    Paris; because she's never been told that she's holding it wrongly.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @ 'Mr Sensible' AC

        "There are myriad other analogies one could use, but evoking emotion as a result of linking to potential death is always a sign of a weak argument."

        Do you actually HAVE an argument to make in defence of Apple's current stance on the antenna issue? Or are you too busy having a go at the "fandroid sheep" for their lack of civilised debating skills?

        1. Anonymous Coward

          @Stike Vomit

          "Do you actually HAVE an argument to make"

          Scroll up and read 'PR "specialists"'

          "Or are you too busy having a go at the "fandroid sheep" for their lack of civilised debating skills?"

          Is than an argument against civil discourse? Not sure if it's that or you're trying to scold me for demanding that in discourse people act civilly?

          We can have a nice discussion about these issues, but when there are some who run around attacking, calling people twats, idiots, morons, and on and on, there's no point in continuing the discussion is there? It's like people were never taught basic common courtesy and respect in conversation.

          The worst lot are, however, the ones that run through these forums finding anything related to Apple, shit in a bag, light it on fire and toss it in the middle of that particular room and run all the while "tee-hee-heeing" to themselves.

  20. uhuznaa

    This is crazy

    A recall of millions of phones for some problem that does not endanger anyone (which is quite different from braking problems with a car) with no easy way to deliver a similar product that doesn't have the problem would be insane. Especially since they still can't get the phones out fast enough to satisfy demand.

    Yes, this issue surely is a small PR disaster but adding a not so small economic disaster to it won't help anyone.

    This Gizmodo article sounds more than iffy. Coating the antenna won't change anything when even putting thin tape onto the antenna doesn't help. It's a capacitive problem and with these you need just a few millimeters between your hand and the antenna. You'd need a rather thick coating for that.

    In their place I would just sit that out, try to come up with some hardware or software workaround, introduce it silently in production, exchange phones as needed during the warranty and let those who don't notice the problem just keep their phones. Everything else wouldn't help and would make no PR or economic sense.

    Apple is in a position right now where everything short of 110% perfect will draw flaming hate and ridicule anyway. They get lots of press coverage for what they do right and they get lots of press coverage for what they do wrong. If you look at other smartphones you'll find they all have their bugs and shortcomings. Some HTC models are really bad at switching from WiFi to 3G without a reboot, the Samsung Galaxy mounts via USB mass storage only randomly on Macs and sometimes needs half a minute to launch its phone app if you haven't rebooted it for a few days... and nobody cares (well, apart from the users being hit by this). Business as usual.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up


      Another cogent response, but I see the first of the Fandroid sheep have downvoted it because you dared, I say *dared*, not to join their attack-everything-Apple rampage. They need to stop being so fucking offensive, or their parents need to take their computers away for misbehaving. One or the other.

  21. vividearh

    liar liar

    We can all see the smoke - come on Steve admit it. Your pants are clearly on fire!

  22. Mark Jan

    And Regardless of the Faults, People Aren't Not Bothered!

    Title more or less sums it up! Unbelievable mentality.

    Questions such as: "have people not got anything better to do than keep picking up their phone and prodding the antenna or squeezing the phone?" sums up the mentality.

    Don't pick up the phone just worship from afar! How much more of a fanbois can one become?!

    New from Apple, the i(don't)Phone.

  23. Pavlovs well trained dog

    for once I'm glad..

    that I live in the Netherlands and we get our shiny new Apple kit in the nth tranche of late adopters.

    actually, that's not true - I'm always glad I live here and not in Police/Nanny state(s)..

    but that's another debate for another day

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Being 'well trained'

      I trust we won't be stepping in your particular shit in the streets of Amsterdam?

      You really would think there'd be a cup of coffee icon, wouldn't you!

  24. Dazed and Confused

    In denial

    It's not just Apple customers that will go into denial about a defect. I had a N95_8GB, every now and then it wouldn't work in handset mode, only on loudspeaker or headset. Drove me up the wall. I mate also had one, so I asked whether his did it, "No, never a problem" but watching him use it, every now and then he'd answer calls, clearly be having problems and then he'd hit the loudspeaker button and handle the rest of the call that. way. Didn't admit to the problem though.

  25. Richard Scratcher

    Don't buy an iPhone 4...

    ....until I get mine!

    I hope articles like this put people off buying an iPhone 4. I've been trying to get one from o2 for weeks now and there's just no stock. At the time of typing, there are just 4 shops with the 16GB model and only 1 of those has the 32GB version. That's in the whole of the Untied Klingdom. Two of the shops are are in Northern Ireland (so they are), one is in Scotchland and one in Welsh Wales. England has no stock at all.

    1. Baskitcaise

      Don't buy an iPhone 4...

      "England has no stock at all."

      The have all been sent back on recall.


  26. Anonymous Hero

    In Search of Stupidity

    I wonder if they'll get a chapter all to themselves in the next edition?

    Well worth a read; how the mighty have fallen over the years.

  27. Julian 3


    Mediocrity takes a lot less time and most people won't notice the difference until it's too late.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      @Julian 3

      We're not discussing Microsoft here. Get a clue!

  28. TkH11

    The latest and best

    wth would anyone spend £400 on a phone I have no idea. Well, actually, I do know, it's mostly about keeping up with the Jones and trying to show off.

    I have a friend that boasted to me the other day about how they'd just bought an Ipad and the most important piece of information? They imported it from the USA before it was on sale in the UK ! Who cares?

    Such immature obsession with trying to get the latest gadget first, - and pay through the nose for it.

    If you want to get sucked into the merry go around of upgrading your gadgets year after year, then that's your choice you muppet..but buying electronic gadgets and computers is NOT an investment. It's money down the drain.

    I used to renew my computer evey year, evey couple of years, but it's a complete waste of money, the resale value is always a fraction of what you originally paid.

    Same goes with graphics cards, sure you wanna spend £300 on the latest graphics card only for it to drop massively in price 6/12 months later. I still play those state of the art computer games, yeah, perhaps a bit later than most, but I still get equal the amount of pleasure out of it, but I do it with the best price/performance cards and not pay the premium for the very top notch cards.

    Time people wised up, grew up I think.

  29. TkH11


    For Apple to recall very phone and mod the phone to fix the issue is going to be hugely expensive. Why would they do that? It's definitely not a safety issue.

    The only benefit to Apple in expending the huge sum of money would be to protect their reputation. But then the act of issuing a recall notice would immediately damage their reputation because it's an admission there's a problem.

    The number of people actually affected is small. Sure the problem is a design flaw with every single phone, but the actual number of people affected is very small.

    I really don't think Apple are going to issue a recall notice for every Iphone 4 out there just to prevent a little bit of damage to their reputation. There is a major financial cost.

    The fact is, it's still a great phone and the brand loyalty with Apple is very strong amongst its consumer base.

    I might predict that Apple would make a design change to the product to fix the issue, but then that would be an admission there is an issue, which so far they've put down to a software bug, (which we all know it isn't), and they might then issue the newly designed phone free of charge to those people that are experiencing a problem with the Iphone 4 first release variant.

    That would be a much cheaper resolution than recalling and re-issuing all the Iphone 4's currently sold. However, what's to stop many people from using that as an opportunity to obtain the new model when they don't actually have a problem with the first release model?

    It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out, whether Apple will make a public admission it's far more than a software bug, whether they are pressured into doing it.

  30. Anonymous Coward

    When two tribes go to war...

    I drive an ancient Nokia 6230i and I firmly believe that ALL smartphone users are pretentious wankers (at least until I get one myself).

    Anyway, I'd just like to say this is the most entertaining fanboi tribal hate-fest I've witnessed in yonks. Keep banging the Apples and the Androids together guys!

  31. Paul RND*1000

    Toyota != Apple

    Look, someone at Cupertino clearly cocked up. This happens to Apple occasionally, when their designers get just a little too clever for their own good and turn out incredibly stylish computer cases which crack, or screens which scratch if the wind blows hard enough past them, or whatever. They're undeniably good at what they do, but they do NOT walk on water despite what some fans might care to believe. This is a design flaw, and you can be sure it'll be fixed in the next iteration of iPhone regardless of what they do with the existing 4G.

    But comparing this with the Toyota recalls? Seriously? Dropping a call will aggravate you, but it's something you expect from a mobile phone, now and then. That's just the nature of mobile telephony.

    Whereas your car accelerating out of control will do a whole lot more than momentarily inconvenience you and is not something you expect to have happen once in a while under normal conditions.

  32. Ted

    There won't be a recall...

    Nobody in the electronics field is suggesting a recall, but what will probably happen is Apple will release a software fix, then issue all iPhone 4 owners a $50 Store Coupon for a case or anything else. That would solve the problem and make everyone happy. The media (and perpetually disgruntled android users) love to over exaggerate, but the problem isn't that serious and only effects people who don't have cases.

    The iPhone 3G had far more serious issues 2 years ago, but nobody remembers it now, this will follow the same path.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    the bottom line of most of the Apple apologists here appears to equate to defence of ripping off whoever you can get away with ripping off. Is 'fanboi' the modern term for what used to be known as a yuppy?

  34. BeersYourFriend

    Yeah! I think we all would like a New Improved iPhone 4... READ!

    This is actually a dumb question to ask, if we would want the updated version... Of course all of use would want an updated iPhone, with parts that work, and will not result in device failure overtime. It's almost like we all got an iPhone 4, just to test how the people respond to the phone, and the Next iPhone 4 should be iOS4.2.......

    This does not look good, for Apple!

    WOW, a complete recall of thousands of iPhone 4s! Apple just took an accidental punch to the Groan! Ouch! Yes, many I would of course want a replacement iPhone 4, if they do decided to recall all units! Why would anyone say they are happy with it, when Apple is fixing an issue, that your phone still has, unless you trade for the iPhone 4.2, LOL!

    This must be the Biggest Cellular Problem in History! All iPhone 4s? Are you kidding me? I almost can't believe it! Like I'm in a Dream, LOL! Again, All iPhone 4's?

    If I was Steve Jobs, I'd be throwing up for the next few months, to correct issues by sending units back to china, for a a makeover! And, plus they just lost So Much in Profits, and People are Pissed at At&t too! So, I wonder if we will finally see the iPhone on all network a, or just a few of the biggest. Like, version, or t-mobile...


    You know, it seems like a lot of people don't trust apple, saying, "I'm going to wait till next year, so they can fix the bugs", and IT IS SO TRUE! Most Apple fans just automatically know, Apple stays true to their products, and Again, and Again, we see Bugs!

    *Think about this, Could China's iPhone Factory, possibly purposely cause this issue? I may be crazy, but you never know... If China did this on purpose, then this could be the biggest attack to Apple, and their reputation! Also, hurting apple in Wallstreet, thus hurting us economically as well!

    I would like to know what your thoughts are, about this issue!

    Take Care!


  35. TkH11

    The postings. READ THIS

    I am quite frankly amazed at the amount of crap being posted by so many people in this forum.

    Given so many of us are IT professionals, educated to a high level, supposed to be professionals, able to think logically, to solve complex problems; yet, look at the completely way out postings, comparions being made, total lack of rational thought processes and to cap it, the sheer rudeness, which is clearly intentional being displayed by so many people.

    At times, it's descended into the gutter, unnecessarily so, with people slagging others off.

    It's time many of you grew up and stopped acting like children. Stop acting like teenage kids playing the game "My k**b is bigger than yours". So you get a kick out of calling people names? Go do it somewhere else.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      RE: The postings. READ THIS...Hypocrite

      Oh the hypocrisy.

      You posted this only yesterday:

      "F**k me, so they're going to spend £40 million quid on a computer and they don't know what they're going to use it for?

      So it's about training people? F**k off, stick to your sheep. How many people are actually going to get hands on with the super computer? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands?

      Less than a hundred I'd say. When was the last time you had hands on with a super computer?

      If you want to train people in HPCs then spend the £40 on putting in place training courses and provide remote access to an HPC in another part of the country: it will be just as effective and far better value for money, think about how many students you could teach, and you could do it for free too!

      £40 million for a training aid.

      You can't take the Welsh seriously can you?"


      I especially like the professionalism you show with these two comments:

      "F**k off, stick to your sheep" & "You can't take the Welsh seriously can you?"

  36. TkH11

    updated iphone

    Updated IPhone 4.

    You may want an updated IPhone 4, but are you going to get one? Is Apple going to give you one?

    Apple have made the Iphone 4 in order to make money, to make a profit. Why would they recall all Iphone 4s and issue a replacement free of charge?

    Apple will try to solve this in the way that is cheapest for them. That's standard good business practise. If that means giving out a free cover which costs pennies instead of replacing the entire phone which is considerably more expensive, then that is probably what they will do.

    But recall and mod tens of thousands of phones when 99% of users aren't even affected? Is that good business?

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