"My wife and I both have the same exact problem with out phones."
As they complain of yellow splotches, screen scratches, and left-hander discrimination, disillusioned fanbois are also howling over problems with the not-so-holy handset's proximity sensor. "I'm having an issue with the Proximity Sensor not properly detecting when i'm holding my phone to my ear," says one user in a post to the …
1) those component prices are facts. Or, to be totally correct - it is fact that those are the prices of those components.
2) the cost price of an object is the cost to produce a new one. R&D, etc. are important but not when calculating the cost* though I'm not sure about the severance payments made to the relatives of terminated Foxconn employees.
So, it's stonkingly good business for Apple and all credit to them for creating such demand. And while it's an impressive profit margin it's still way off what you can charge for luxury goods. Probably just as well now that other companies are producing equivalent hardware for significantly less.
* Low-value products like cola may include advertising in cost, because without it no one would pay a premium price.
"2) the cost price of an object is the cost to produce a new one. R&D, etc. are important but not when calculating the cost* though I'm not sure about the severance payments made to the relatives of terminated Foxconn employees."
By whose definition of cost?
None that I've come across ignores set up and development costs, which are traditional amortised across each unit sold.
More importantly, the *value* is in the configuration, not the components.
Which isn't to say that the iPhone isn't an overpriced piece of consumer tat -- it is. Just it's overpriced by the value of the configuration.
Actually, R&D and non-value added component (ie packaging, user manuals et c.) costs are factored into product costs, as are logistics for instance - warehousing and distribution are costly, unless Apple and Foxconn have secretly perfected JIT for the entire supply chain. You need to differentiate between manufacture and retail/point of sale, where profit margins are added and marketing costs are accounted for. This isn't really a question of 'economics' either, rather the manufacture process which is a different subject entirely, but that's for another day...
That is the cost price of the *components* only. Assembling a device is not going to be that expensive. Paying the hundreds of software and hardware engineers for a couple of years to create the device, OS and application software is *extremely* expensive. Not to mention the cost of all the equipment they have to use in the process, the premises rent, the travel costs etc.
And then there's the UI designers, testing, marketing, sales, admin staff...
It's not a new phone!!!! it's an updated OLD phone!!!!
They started designing it back in 2004 and released it in 2007, the two and a half year development program was huge, it's been paid for over and over again by iFans and for the last three and a half years they have been "tweaking" it (what development?), the real gravy is the 3rd party developers that Apple "let" develop software for their iPhone (which Apple get get paid for!), it literally is "Money for old Rope".
It's a bit of a let down to have so many problems, but it's no worse than previous releases, the difference is it's not so much better than the competition that people ignore the "quirks" this time.
Of course they're leveraging the existing platform, and yes it probably cost less to develop than the first model (you don't know this for certain incidentally, there might have been significant costs researching avenues which were later rejected - but lets say it's a reasonable assumption).
Doesn't change the fact that adding together the price of the components and saying the rest is profit is wildly inaccurate. That doesn't even stand up for baking a loaf of bread never mind a piece of technology.
This argument has been had over and over again on The Register. I'm not sure why people are adamant that manufacturers can produce something and sell it at no cost to themselves whatsoever, it defies common sense.
iPhones are awesome devices, but really, what was Jobs thinking with his customer service email exchange? Not smart.
Anyhow, there are better products out there now than the iPhone, but they have a large and devoted installed base. Could sell those folks salt soup for $5 and they would buy if it was called iSalt
Check out this article about Jobs and the iPhone and the chain reaction that Job's statement created. Wicked funny and safe for work.
Seriously, if I had even a US nickel for every time I've heard somebody whine about how the first-release camped-out-for-a-week-to-get-it only-three-in-the-state gizmo they've just bought doesn't work right, I'd be rich.
"What sort of brand loyalty do Apple manage to instil for their customers to put up with this sort of thing."
Steve Jobs' reality distortion field. He persuades people that whatever he's talking about at the moment is the greatest product ever made and you really should buy it. And regarding any bugs that turn up 1) It's not a bug, you're using it wrong. 2) "Learning to use the device properly" is worth it for the other intagibles of the device in question. 3) Again it's not a bug, but it'lll be fixed anyway, if not in this version, in the next one -- just buy one now, then buy that one when it comes out.
In all seriousness, this has no affect on me, I'm not impressed by Apple products -- but I think basically he's highly charismatic, and makes what I will call "charismatic devices".
Are you a Douglas Adams (Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy) fan? If not get hold of a copy of the books and look up 'The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation' who basically produce devices whose superficial design flaws mask their fundamental design flaws. The theory is that after battling with a device for ages to get a minor function working you don;t have time to realise the fact that overall the device is useless...............
I thought up-to-date Pattern Recognition was a POSIX requirement for any wetware distribution. But sometimes it may be turned off by default?
# sh /etc/rc.d/rc.pattrecd start
"Having purchased every version of iPhone on each launch date, I have never encountered this problem"
Wow, as much as I knew about people spending hours in a queue for a phone and there being a "following", I would never have thought that someone would rush out and buy a new model of the <same phone> on each and every launch day. Seems a bit loopy to me.
NOTE: The iPhone is great. I love my 3G which I bought the year after it came out and I might go for the 4 but am also keenly looking at the Android range. (written on my Ubuntu Netbook just to show that even techies love the iPhone)
are so busy being techies for their living rather than a hobby that they don't have time for the frequent disruptions of major Fedora releases for their own systems, so use Ubuntu LTS releases instead.
And why not netbooks if they work well enough. Damned useful devices. If I could afford one, I might get an android phone to replace my Palm Treo, and use that instead, but until I do, my EeePC is more portable than my Thinkpad, and runs a full Linux distro just fine.
>>frequent disruptions of major Fedora releases for their own systems, so use Ubuntu LTS releases instead.
Been working with Linux for over 10 years in enterprise enviroments, other than a brief flirtation with SuSE a few years back, its RHEL all the way. Ubuntu is an enthusiasts distro and even then just a user-friendly stepping stone to Debian.
EeePCs are aimed at folk who leave the house/office - real techies have VPN.
Yeah. RHEL not Fedora. And of course YOU pay for it, don't you!
Your VPN solution requires network connectivity. Try VPN'ing into a government or financial institution! I thought I would be able to work from home at least some of the time when I first went contracting, but sadly, that wasn't the case in the real world.
BTW. Been working as a UNIX deep techie for 25+ years. Linux is the new-boy, and enables me to have a UNIX-like environment with me, especially on my netbook.
because we all know techies CANNOT be real techies unless they are busy spending every Friday and Saturday night writing their own apps for their own phones, that only they will use, because (let's face it) they have nothing else to do on a weekend night.
- Number of "techies" screaming on this site about how locked down the iPhone is and how it hurts their sensibilities: seemingly millions
- Number of "techies" on this site that have actually produced a _working_ mobile application: a few tens or maybe low hundreds
- Laughing at the irony: Priceless...
Yep, nothing like spending all day at work listening to shite problems from whining cretins, then go home to the same thing!!! Yep techies need to flagulate themselves on a their O/S and machines when they get home. No pain, no gain! Not a real man unless your suffering for your career! I must get home and spend 6 hours trying to get my USB gadget X3764 driver installed in the most complicated and painful way possible, just like a real tech!
Bollocks! Sorry mate, but when I get out of my day job as an IT techie, I don't mind reading tech articles on the way home, but when I get home I want a very easy life. I want my kids and my Missus to not bust my chops about the PC won't do this or that. I go home and I have non-tech hobbies ( guitars and photography ) , which my Mac allows me to accomplish quickly and painlessly. I then go back to work, feeling refreshed and able to do my job with a clear and open mind.
I work as and Oracle DBA, Unix Systems admin on Sparc, AIX and Linux systems, NetBackup admin on Unix and Windows kit. I know pain in large doses and I don't want it at home, I have a wife and kids for that!
OCP Cert DBA, Solaris/AIX/Linux/HP-UX UNIX (over 1000 machines), Netbackup/Legato is just part of the job, I've got a Sun cluster in my garage, just built a triple boot Win7/OSX/Ubuntu box at home, didn't take long, real techies do this stuff at home, it just doesn't take up your life if you're any good at it (oh and I take photos, play guitar, race motorbikes), if you spent a bit more time being a techie then maybe you wouldn't suffer so much pain at work?
But the free iOS 4 software upgrade is really rather good and I'm looking forward to the upgrade for the iPad as I'm already missing the differences when moving between the iPad and 3GS.
Exposed antennas was always going to be a gamble and I would have thought an inclusion of a black bumper with each phone would have been a good move rather than charging a fortune for a set of coloured silicon elastic bands!
Back in the day I had a Nokia smartphone an " N70", a total pile fo crap that you had to celotape the back down to prevent the camera being exposed everytime you took it out of your pocket. Nowadays I have another Nokia, the E52 with pretty much the same shit OS and same crappy interface. I have the iPhone on order and will take the antenna issues and whatever as a vast improvement thank you.
If the interface of the OS is more important than getting a signal - FOR YOUR PHONE - then welcome to the world of Apple. Let me know how the removable storage, flash, freedom of apps and ability to completely modify your handset goes...
Sure Jobs will be more than happy to take your cash.
P.S. Why the hell you went from a high end Nokia multimedia device (N Series) to a business orientated enterprise handset (E Series) truly shows your knowledge of mobiles devices.
Got the same problem with two Samsung B3410 phones from the same batch... Anybody noticed?
No seriously, I really had the problem and I didn't feel the urge to write it on a forum of pi***d-off Samsung users.
If Apple sold really 1.7 Million phones I wonder if those users having now problems are not belonging to a statistical case rather than a diffused defect.
However: never purchase Ver.1 of ANY product on Earth. Microsoft docet!!
It's an Apple marketing feature. By breaking the proximity sensor feature, this will discourage you from holding it to your head. You will find that the best way to use it is with a BT headset. You will find that you necessarily must hold it in your hand and constantly admire it. After all, If you can't admire it and wave it around and show it off, what's the point of having an Apple device? In case you need to use both hands at once, you can fasten it around your neck as a medallion. Have more faith, fanboys! It works the way it was designed for your benefit, in the same way that its lack of Flash support, file management, and multitasking are for your benefit.
that bases their self worth on using or owning any piece of software or technology is a contemptuous dick. Fact. If you need objects like that to fill the empty void that is your life, then you have far bigger problems than worrying if the the Linux distro you prefer is perceived as cool or not. Yes, that includes you Android fanbois too. And since when has being a 'techie' ever been considered 'cool'? In fact I'd go as far to say those that think they are cool because of what they own or use are in the same band as those that consider themselves 'power-users'; feckless wankers.
"How can apple mess it up so much!" Can the hubris you cock; there'll be reports of Microsoft/Google/Nokia/A N Other (delete as applicable) fucking up to a similar extent sooner or later, and the respective fanbois'll be howling derision or hyperbole at that too. IT'S FUCKING BORING!
Hang-on Mr don't-be-mean-to-my-fellow-hater; I've got no anger issues here. What I have got is a complete bewilderment to the incredibly high levels of stupid that feature in articles and comments on the web--especially copy'n paste "you don't have to read it" replies when you mis-understand my point. I've no problem with brand loyalty, but some of the crap people write to defend their chosen brand and deride everyone elses is infantile. Have a look at the 606 forums for football on the BBC site, which is overrun by clueless teenagers, and tell that the majority of comments here are any different.
I have had enough of this Jesus-phone crap. Give me the Chuck Norris Phone!
It would not make a call, it would summon the other party right next to you, so you can talk in person.
It would not need a micro our touch sensor, it could read your mind from your facial expression.
It would not need a screen, it could solidify (sp?) the air for *real* 3D.
... your product ideas welcome.
The Chuck Norris phone won't wear a bumper, it would sell you a bumper to fit the world
You don't hold the Chuck Norris Phone, it holds onto you..
It doesn't use its screen to display text messages or emails, it carves them in nearby rock faces with a single kick.
The Chk Nrrs Phn doesn't do txt spk, it conveys it's meaning with a single word.
I have an iPhone, but it is a 3gs got in April, now running IOS4 which seems ok.
The phone works quite well and i have never paid more than 600 quid for any mac i have owned (including the air that i am writing this on).
I may not be a true fan boy since i don't only use mac's but its only Jobs calling the shots if you let him!!
And as for buying the first version of a device, well that's just silly - if you're cool-ness / popularity is measured by the latest products you buy then you are no better than a fashionista starving themselves to fit in a dress designed by a gay man for the figure of a teenage male!!!
it means they defend Apple at all cost, even if its stupid to do so.
I think its really funny that so many Applites read El Reg, cant understand why though, for such a techie site its surprising that there are so many apple munchers here. Usually techie sites are full of sensible pro-choice, 'Free my Device', 'Its My Computer', 'Jail-breaker' kind of people. but el reg seems to attract die hard defenders (aka Fanbois) ready to stand gaurd of thier precious shiny iPhad.
"Usually techie sites are full of sensible pro-choice, 'Free my Device', 'Its My Computer', 'Jail-breaker' kind of people"
You mean another bunch of small-minded arseholes who don't understand that the choice they should be exercising is not to buy the fucking thing in the first place?
I don't currently own an iPhone/smart-phone and life seems to have gone merrily on with barely a care in the world beyond still having more beer-tokens than I might otherwise have had. Must do something about that...
I do not own an iPhone. by exercising my choice. exactly. but it is because when I buy it, it is my phone! so it is debranded unlocked and rooted so that it is actually usable for stuff. Its Mine I paid for it I will do what I like to it! and IF i want to use it fro pr0n that is MY choice, not mr st.Eve with his tempting apple. DO NOT eat the fruit of the forbidden tree.
Mind you ,there are a lot of appletards who do stuff to thier phones too, though that is usually limited to solar death rays, blenders etc (see recent posts).
... in essence ... anybody who takes their personal self worth from <insert device, software etc.> here from <insert vendor here>. That is what drives their need to lord it over others and behave illogically.
Somehow, Apple seems to manage to create (or attract if it is peronality based?) these types of individuals more successfully (see their bottom line) than others ... that is Apple's true success!
It's refreshing to get a post from someone who doesn't say "My Nokisonung B543 is better than the iPhone because it makes tea with fairtrade teabags."
You, obviously, don't have a mobile phone and you, obviously, don't go along with the other trolls who would jealously decry iPhone owners with such crap as "iClone" or making sheep comments!
If you don't like iPhones, don't buy them! But don't lump all iPhone users/buyers together ... you merely show just how simple minded and shallow YOU are in doing so.
I thought I would check my sensor as I couldn't find any of the other problems users had found.
Aha! I found MY sensor wouldn't work either!
Then I found it only works when there's a phone call and it works perfectly.
If I only had some friends I would have known this sooner!
Is it Apple's fault I have no friends?
OK I must admit to being baffled at the assertion the signal issue affects left-handed people more than right-handed. I'm right handed but hold my phone in my left hand to use the touchscreen (T-Mobile G1) but I do the same with my iPod Touch. Surely if lefties go by a similar approach they are less likely to see the problem or am I missing something? It's hardly practical to use the touchscreen on any phone with the same hand you're holding it.
Is that when receiving a phone call they generally hold the phone in the left hand and as they do the full signal drains bar by bar until there is no signal and the call is dropped. A bit of an issue there. 3 guys in our office on iPhone 4 only 1 suffers this issue (he's on Vodaphone, the others on O2)
But I thought Apple could do no wrong. I was lead to believe, following numerous reg articles, that only Microshat releases stuff that is buggy, incomplete and/or frequently doesn't work.
I've recently discovered the joys of something called a pen and paper. So little down-time using said articles.
> "I'm having an issue with the Proximity Sensor not properly detecting when i'm
> holding my phone to my ear," says one user in a post to the Apple support forums.
> "I can confirm that the iPhone sensor is working by covering it with my finger,"
So just keep a finger held over the sensor when making a call as that is clearly the "correct" way to hold this phone.
I can see that the AppleShop Genii are going to have to spend plenty of time (re)educating people on the correct way to hold a phone!
Absolute rubbish! I have one, so does my boyf...uh.. girlfriend and my gim...uh best friend. It works fine for us, we've had no problems whatsoever. This is just more typical bias from the regi.... *click*.... 'bip bop bip the other person has cleared. bip bop bip the other person has cleared. bip bop bip the other person has cleared'
I have 2 phones. My normal one is a smart phone. It works well, internet and Microsoft Exchange e-mail work great and as a phone its good. My wife hates it, but has admitted that having access to Google to look an address/phone number up has been pretty handy. Its delicate and sometimes runs out of memory and since the Phone part is an application, sometimes fails to let me answer the call as its multitasking something else..
My other phone is a Nokia 6310i. Its a phone and doesn't do anything else that well - but the phone has been dropped, submerged and quite simply will go on and on. Its my backup phone for when the smartphone fails/brakes.
I had an iPod once. It got slightly damp (and only slightly) and it became a brick. I would rather have a phone I can rely on than all the extra features.
This sensor thing stops it performing its primary function - which is a phone. That, on top of the left handed issue, is a fail on Apples part.
I think I speak for a fair few people here - DON'T BUY FIRST RELEASES!! YOU IDIOTS!
Also, I do admire Apple, well Big Steve anyway, for the way in which he has managed to con...vince so many people into buying a phone with tech several years old (ok, the screen is quite new and swish) and charging WAY over the odds for it.
But it's not a first release is it?! It's the 4th one, they really should have sorted things by now. Even tho I am pretty much in the anti apple camp (due to the restrictions and higher network costs), I have two original iPhones, which I still think were the best build quality for all of them, and they both still work (albeit with a few colour issues with the screen now, and the battery is very much under performing). I use a desire now, as always wanted to use Android...
How the so called moderators here, are in reallity censors of any criticism of ElReg.
It is pathetic that you dont understand the difference between moderation and censorship.
I will explain for you as you are so obviously retarded and do not understand the difference. A moderators job is to prevent abuse and legal problems due to the nature of posts. It is not to remove any criticism of the site and its policies.
I dont expect this post to be posted, I just want you to know how bloody useless and impotent you and your fellows seem when you take such actions.
There WAS a time when I defended ELReg to others, but no longer due to your own inability to
allow criticism. This goes directly to your credibility as a news organisation, particularly when you constantly derisively complain about government censorship.
You allow bigoted half wits to disingenously spread rabid anti cliamte change views, but dont allow them to be crtiqued. Why is Orlowski a protected species I wonder?
Frankly you are hopeless at your job.
When even the inquirer is more open than you what more can be said?
Kick the ball not the player - it really is that simple.
Ad hominem attacks on our staff or accusations of bad faith (which you have not made), and especially when they are off-topic will most probably be rejected - certainly if I am moderating.
We are not a forum for unfettered free speech. This is our site and these are our rules.
But crying 'censorship' is ludicrous: everything our journalists write is open to public scrutiny, debate and dispute. And if not on our site - then via blogs and other websites. Everyone can say their piece: no-one goes to jail.
As for the Inquirer and its 1.5 full-time editorial staff....
Nokia does one thing good, that is they make good phones. Other features may not work that good (eg. their phone web browser is crap), but their "core" function, is always good. I had a couple of good old Nokia phones. They have been dropped, broke apart, been in the rain, hit hard, etc; they simply work (after you put the phone together). Even my current (more than 2 years old) N95 is tough. I dropped it very hard in the rain (was running), the battery and back cover was "flying out", the top cover was clearly cracked and the camera cover was damaged. Guess what, I put them together, that damn thing still works 100%.
Compare that over priced iCannotMakePhoneCall crap to Nokia is an insult.
It's interesting watching some of you stake your claim in the social hierarchy of "techies". I doubt you'll ever attain the gratification you seek by labelling yourself in this way.
I could talk about how such a label can only realistically be reliant on self perception, not extroversion. How claiming any kind of requirement for the label is an exercise in futility.
It's pointless however, as people will just find something else to label themselves with, and continue to argue amongst themselves about who has the right to wear such a label.
that such a large group of self proclaimed techies were such myopic twits.
I have used Apple computers since the mid 80's. I do not own an iPhone. I do own an iPod and a 15" MacBook Pro, last gen before unibodies. Its a fine laptop and does what I want, how I want. So how does that make me a tard?
I don't worship at the alter of Jobs. Don't need to. I am also not an IT git. Though having worked in Tech Support in decades past I understand frustration with end users.
I read El Reg for Information and humor.
Beer is good food, now go drink til' you're full.
Bottom line is haters = bigots. Uncork your heads from your asses, and move on.
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