Get an n900
Nice to see you get so excited over these features. My n900 has had that *basic* stuff since launch :P
Apple's much-vaunted iOS 4 arrived Monday morning a few minutes after 10am Pacific time, and nearly an hour and a half later, we were finally able to complete downloading and installing Cupertino's latest and greatest mobile OS onto our iPhone 3GS. Were its marquee features worth the wait — meaning both the 10-plus weeks since …
Please can we put a stop to these inane 'my [insert name of device] has been able to do this since [insert date I downloaded a hacked ROM for xdadevs]' comments?
Fine, so the N900 can do lots of things. But it's a shite smartphone. The thing weighs more than an iPad.
If the N900 was so fecking great, how come the only place I've ever seen one is actually at Nokia? Mostly because most people don't want to look like a dick holding a small computer up to their faces.
You may love it. You may also love recompiling your own kernel and furious onanism. But please, can you stop with these pointless comments?
All those "my 'phone has been doing that years" comments are a useful counter to the hype every time Apple adds something that's been around for years but gives it a new name so it will appear they invented it.
And it's not just with the iPhone.. Remember "spaces" ... a crippled version of virtual desktops that Linux had for years?
And then "there's firewire" and "airport" ...
BTW, a neighbour of mine has never used WiFi because, "I never go near an airport!"
Bad examples, there.
Virtual desktops weren't even vaguely new when they finally arrived on Linux, they've been around since the 1980's on X-Windows systems and probably somewhere else less popular befre that. I am interested in why you think the Apple version is "crippled" though.
FireWire is Apple's brand name for the technology *they* created to oppose USB, *they* took it to IEEE and eventually it was turned into IEEE 1394. Most implementations call it FireWire too, although Sony call their implementation i.Link. What technology do you think they are pretending to have invented?
Airport, again is just a brand name they have given to their implementation. They don't do it to make people think that they invented it, they do it so that Joe Public doesn't need to know about 802.11g/802.11b/etc.
You need to brush up on your history before you start throwing stones at other platforms (to mix a metaphor).
Don't believe the hype, "the technology *they* created", Apple didn't create the technology, it was a working group which *they* put a lot of input into, and *they* were one of many patent holders for the technology.
Apple made stupid mistakes, like insisting on a big fat connector which is rubbish on cameras and other small devices (hence the Sony interface that became standard that Apple went on to adopt), the driving reason behind it was to have a closed standard that people could make money out of (mainly Apple), and because of this it was nowhere near as popular as USB1/2 (and badly developed, insecure and had too many revisions unlike USB3).
I can't remember who "invented" WiFi but I know I started using Apple's Airport in what was it, 1999? I was working in a high tech IT consultancy at the time and most of the other people I was working with just had blank expressions on their face when I tried to explain the concept of browsing wirelessly to them. It was at least 2 or 3 years later before Intel's Centrino ads hit TV that most people even heard of the concept. Ditto with things like USB and, to a lesser extent, FireWire.
quote:"I can't remember who "invented" WiFi but I know I started using Apple's Airport in what was it, 1999? I was working in a high tech IT consultancy at the time and most of the other people I was working with just had blank expressions on their face when I tried to explain the concept of browsing wirelessly to them. It was at least 2 or 3 years later before Intel's Centrino ads hit TV that most people even heard of the concept. Ditto with things like USB and, to a lesser extent, FireWire."
Australia thats who!
In 1992, the CSIRO obtained a patent in Australia for their wireless data transfer technology. In 1996, they obtained a patent for the same technology in the US. WiFi uses the mathematical formula in the patents. In 2000, CSIRO demonstrated the world's first wireless local area network internet connection
So maybe not in 1999? or maybe apple invented it?
While I accept that the iPhone is really popular and does a lot of interesting stuff, I am always amazed by what it can't do. For example, setting the wallpaper, setting a song from the media library as a ringtone, create playlists on the go and so on. These are things that I assumed pretty much every phone in that class would be able to do. Many phones have been doing it for a long time, so in fact it is conspicuous by it's absence. if I got an iPhone, not being able to do those things would surprise me.
Now maybe people don't miss those things. Maybe they are not important to you. Maybe a lot of people don't use them. Maybe other manufacturers have something to learn here - in that it is worth taking everything out then adding it back later for a premium.
But to be blunt, if you are going to talk about exciting new feature X you have to expect that some people will wish to point out that feature has already been done. Apple often claim to have re-invented the wheel every time that an update is made, other people seem to be frustrated / bemused by the way that people buy into this - getting excited about something that everyone else has been doing for a long time.
What's your opinion the Nokia version of cover flow, on the upcoming N8? Let me guess... the important point is that you iPhone has been able to do that since...
I suppose the many different products on the market today and the media frenzy often surrounding apple products can make it difficult to discuss them without some kind of comparison or partisan sentiment (depending).
Personally, i always enjoy the debate -- makes all sorts of interesting things float to the surface -- no poo jokes, please! ^_^.
Keep it up, reg readers!
RichyS ... whenever you go overboard with the anti-anti-fanboi ranting, try, TRY, to at least getting it right.
The iPad WiFi+3G model, according to Apple, weigh 730g. The N900 (with WiFi and 3G) comes in at 181g.
And yes. It IS a point to many that in 2010 a NEW "smart" phone can't multi-task equally well as devices some eight years old. Please don't start in with the battery time. To some it IS actually worth being able to run half a dozen applications at the same time - without any of them being "paused" or requiring a rewrite - for eight hours, instead of one application for sixteen. Yes, those are example numbers.
If you don't like people telling you that, stop reading the comments. It's that easy.
>> "Please don't start in with the battery time."
Wow, what a counter-argument, there!
Let's try that with some other things, shall we?
- Sky-diving is the safest sport ever! And please, don't start with the "you can die" bit.
- Cars never, ever crash, that's a fact. Please, don't start with the national statistics.
- All nerds get laid every night. Please, don't start with the "with a girl" remark.
- I can predict the future. And please, do not start in with accuracy.
You're right, ignoring the actual point of an argument does work!
While I do admire the UI of the iPhone (I have an iPhone and an Android) it does strike me that every time they announce a new feature the default reaction should actually be "you mean it doesn't do that already?"
So fanbois and fanhaters (fanheaters?) can do their idiocy but the rest of us can either decide the iPhone does enough and does it well enough that we put up with its shortcomings, or we decide to go for a more functional phone that doesn't quite have the x-factor.
Everytime you plug in, your phone backs itself up. So do the update, and the simply click restore. Its that simple, and you could wake up in the morning with your phone exactly the way it was. Certainly worked for me, and has done since beta 1.
On another note, I'm looking forward to developers adding multi-task support to their apps. Get to it devs!!!!
The update (on my O2 3G):
- deleted all my SMS messages
- deleted all my Contact Favourites & phone preferences
- deleted application data
and, most annoying of all, had buggered my data connection settings
So, to the poster who says "just plug it in and press go", no, not quite. It also had to transfer all 16Gb of music back to the phone, which took an age. The update seemed to hiccup when the iPhone rebooted and discovered the SIM lock.
"we discovered that photos that looked just fine and dandy in iPhone OS 3.x now look like fuzzy crap in iOS 4."
Would that be because iOS 4 is expecting to be paired with that new higher res screen or someone has made that assumption in coding somewhere?
Were these photos taken with the in-built camera and kept on the phone or photos synced from a PC and rescaled by iTunes?
>so it's impossible, for example, to identify a tune being played in Pandora by wrapping your headphones around your iPhone's microphone.
Presumably, being able to identify a tune being played in Pandora by switching to Pandora and, in fact, viewing what's on the screen, is still possible?
How the hell did you wangle that? I was in the list for pre-orders, but I got ultimately bored with delay after delay and by the point that it did come out, other, competitive smartphones were on the horizon.
I never had a P800 because I had a friend convincing me it wouldn't be worth the money... I do have a P900 and a P990, though.
So users are 'Fanbois' if they use an Apple product?
Reg, your desire to stamp on anything popular holds no bars, really it doesnt.
As for the inane commentary from the readers, well, Apple may not have been first, but they do the best job so far!
Folders just 'work', of course Multi-tasking requires apps to be updated to be aware of the feature!, and it's no worse than Androids. I'd rather have decent battery life than the abortion that my Magic is when an app plays rogue and drains the battery in minutes rather than hours....
Frankly your all a bunch of jealous anti-fanbois.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but it would be so nice to find an *APPLE* document where all those wonderful "100+" features of iOS4 are identified and explained. Nothing to tell you how things are enabled, disabled, prevented, augmented or actually can be used. Are you supposed to find this all by experimenting? All you get from the Apple website is a marketing statement about each feature - no detail on how to actually get to it.
I use an iPhone because it saves me time for the functions I need. At present, it does what it needs to do, and some of the iOS4 functions look usable too. But if I have to spend days playing with the phone or digging through the web to find an article that does what Apple should have done it's pointless.
I now have to read Gizmodo to find out how to use iOS4 - ridiculous.
Oh, and as for the "my phone/make/model does this already" comments: yawn. I've used almost every smartphone going and I've been at it since the first Nokia Communicator. I have a simple demand from a phone, it needs to work for me. The iPhone does. Maybe Android does next year or next time I renew, then I'll buy that. For the moment, the iPhone covers my needs - apart from that %&ç* iOS4 manual :-)
He was right about one thing though: there are more people bashing Apple (for little or no reason) than there are who defend them.
You can tell them apart because the bashers are the ones that say ridiculous, illogical things, repeat inacuracies and generally fail to make sense.
Personally, I own some Apple gear and it's a pleasure to use. (I've never used Linux but I'll bet it's also good. Windows however - don't get me started!)
And Multitasking now?
I have an Nokia E65
E65: Feb 2007 Has had since then
User defined folders
Video recording & Calls
bar code decoding (not UPC/EAN due to fixed focus camera)
Uploading to Flickr etc
SIP based VOIP
3G & GSM on 5 bands
Typically a week between charges.
BT presenter on PC
WiFi printing on HP Printer
Choice of Nokia or Opera Browser
fits in any pocket.
Doesn't need Protector slip case
Various Internet Radio apps.
Yahoo, Google and Nokia maps work with BT GPS (sitting at window for better reception than any built in GPS)
No touch screen, but really good for phone calls. Oddly that is what most people buy a phone for
My son's Nokia 5800 is large touch screen and works perfect, with FM Radio and GPS built in.
If it ever breaks I might get one the newer phones with Qwerty keyboard and touch screen.
So the latest Apple iOS4 and 4th iPhone is what they should have had and could have had on 1st model. It's the deliberate Apple drip feed to sell upgrades.
Of course the resolution on the new iPhone is a CPU cycle and power wasting gimmick. x4 as many pixels as needed.
"So the latest Apple iOS4 and 4th iPhone is what they should have had and could have had on 1st model. It's the deliberate Apple drip feed to sell upgrades"
I disagree, it is going take Apple years to catch up, they still haven't achieved parity. Their interface was only so simple because it could hardly do anything.
Wow... so many comments and not a single one about whether they got jailbreaking working.. I have lost respect for El Reg readers....
So... jailbreakin' - is it working with the final iOS4 release ?
if so, it bodes well for my iphone4 purchase thursday... I don't want to lose MyWi, fancy icons and 'real' multitasking :-)
I love the acceptance from certain users users (at least two mentions of this above) that "Of course the app has to be updated to make use of multi-tasking". Steve Jobs has told them this is how it should be so they just accept that there could never have been any other way Strangely, actually having studied computers and having been involved in computing for about 30 years (including many Macs), the idea of an app needing to be aware of how to multi-task - as opposed to it being something the OS looks after - seems the most arse-about faced way of doing things I could possibly imagine.
Then again, I've yet to attend the Church of Jobs purification courses so maybe my mind is not calm enough to understand the real truth.
Actually, it's not that bad an idea if you think about it. Unlike Desktops & Servers, mobile devices to have a finite amount of power they can draw upon, so it is appropriate to look at a different model on how to implement multi tasking. Whether the current model put forward by Apple is good enough only time will tell, but personally, I am happy for the developers of Apps to be forced into thinking about what the apps really need to do when in the background.
I'm sure most of us, with out variety of different hand held devices have all experienced picking up the mobile only to discover it's burning hot and on 1% battery because of some rogue background app.
What were you doing for those 30 years?
Of course applications need to be written to make use of multi-tasking. They should be written to make efficient use of machine time, not just hog as much resource as the OS dishes out.
Ever used a Windows machine when Outlook is having problems talking to Exchange? That is what happens when applications aren't written to make correct use of multi-tasking.
A bad application will spin and eat up resources when waiting for something, a good application will register with the OS that it wants to be woken up for something and then go to sleep.
That stuff doesn't just happen because the OS supports multi-tasking, it has to be specifically written into the application. What Apple have done with iOS4 is impose the restriction on developers to do it the "good" way instead of just allowing them to do what they please, but apparently this is a bad thing if the comments are to be believed.
- OutFront (MapMyTracks)
- Plus (spreadsheet)
If I go for a run, I want Spotify in the background playing my not-quite-purchased music, OutFront tracking my location and route, while I check emails and take occasional photos while running. Or use Plus to track my gym program, at the gym, without having to reopen the sheet every time I re-open the app. And yes, I Jailbroke 3.1.2 to install (free) Backgrounder, which allows all these things to happen, rather well.
THAT improves my life. Which is the point of all this technology (isn't it?). So I guess I'll have to wait for each and every developer, large and small, to upgrade their apps to iOS4 compatibility, and then somehow test that it all plays nicely, before I actually upgrade my iPhone.
(Oh... and that backgrounded Spotify will still work with my bluetooth headphones... which it currently more or less does).
Yes, yes, "my xxxx" can do that.
Apple HAVE missed a trick - they should be looking at all the other features out there that are "standard" and they should be including them.
We're not talking difficult stuff here
- change the message tone (you can already change the ringtone, so how hard can it be).
- shortcut buttons to key settings (e.g. Bluetooth on/off)
- loads more things (search for "please fix the iphone")
I'm not a fanbois - I love my work Nokia too, and before the iPhone my SonyEricsson was excellent. But if Apple REALLY wants to rule the world, they need to get the BASICS right.
Fanbois / anti-fanbois - it's all getting a bit much..
I bought an iPhone, not because it was revolutionary OR magical, but because a load of rich/fanboi folk bought it before me. So when National Rail considered whether to launch a train tracking app, they did a business case analysis, which probably went like this:
"OK - there's a load of rich folk who have these phones, and use trains. So - it'll cost us X Pounds to set up all the back end servers, APIs, reliable data feeds - all the infrastructure to actually make this work. It'll cost us Y Pounds to commission a decent app to present all this data to users in a very usable way. But we know they'll pay #5 a time to buy this app, and we'll make a profit! Let's do it!"
And I went: "Wow, that's actually useful. True, I can do it on WAP - but this is quicker, easier, more detailed - better in every way! A bit pricey, but I'll buy it".
Streetcar: now I can find/book/unlock my car with my iPhone. Can I with Android? No. Can I with a Nokia N1/2/3/4/5/6/78/9/00/000/000000? No. (And don't get my wrong, I loved my SH888, my P800, K610i, and most of all, my 5mx)
It's not about the camera resolution. It's not about what kind of multitasking there is. It's definitely not the fart apps. It's because the iPhone is a solid business case for so many content/service providers, who will actually produce something really worth using/watching, rather than something based on "whatever's free out there" - actually putting some time and money into providing really good stuff that people (particularly those who have already paid over the odds for their phone) will be happy to pay for.
In the end, iOS4 is not worth it on this model, as most of the noticeable features are disabled. Some are irrelevant (video). Some of the new features such as the e-mail stuff are pointless for me as I use GMail. And let's face it, digital zoom on the camera? What is the point...
Jailbroken 3.1.3 is definitely the preferred option for 3G owners, in my opinion.
Waited for the update and hurray it arrived!!
Unfortunately I'm stuck in a Hotel in the middle of nowhere (Central London !) and the Hotel WiFi blocks access to iTunes !
No problem, I'm in a training course so I'll download iTunes in the classroom and update it there. Bugger - the machines are running XP 64-bit !
Oh well - guess I'll have to wait until next week :(
Had a Ipone 2G jailbroken for 2 1/2 years. Kindle multi-tasks fine on it via backgrounder/proswitcher (albeit a bit slowly) as does most other stuff without being re-written.
So another example of Mr Jobbie trying to stitch us up with a "new" release.
I'm bailing out to an HTC Desire....don't think apple can justify the price premium now other platforms have caught up.
As for the fan-bois vs Apple-bashers...Its only a phone you sad cnuts.
I like multi-tasking and have it working on my Android Hero.
in discussions/forums etc. with iPhone users over the last year or so many of them stated clearly that Apple was right to disallow/disable multi-tasking to 3rd party apps.
There appeared to be 2 camps:
These people stated that disabling MT was good for various reasons, most importantly apparently for battery conservation and consistency-of/control-over the UIU/User experience.
ii) less techy-aware:
these seemed happy to go along with the "Apple/Steve-knows-best" approach (fair enough - same approach I have with my car's engine... manufacturer knows best - I'm rubbish at car engines).
Now that multi-tasking is enabled i'm sure many (techy aware) iPhone owners will wish to disable it as they never wanted it and actually valued the lack of multi-tasking as superior.
The less techy-aware will no doubt be well served by the following the Apple/Steve-knows-best" approach.
Techy iPhone users... will you embrace MT or do you want it disabled?
... but I like it ;-)
Very valid point. A few of my iPhone fanboy (techy and non-techy) friends (note distinction ... not all my friends who have iPhones are fanboys ... i.e. some treat it as just a 'thing' with pro's and con's compared to the alternatives and not the supreme and objective benchmark of all life!) have pushed these arguments at me constantly over the years effectivly making the argument that MT was not needed and it is indeed better not to have!
For a bit of fun, I must lob this over the fence to them and see what their views are now ...
(Personally, I think MT is essential for device convergence i.e. background IM, switching in and out of mapping etc. ... but for other app usage is probably not. But device convergence is where it is headed and to Apple's credit, they have come to the party ... slowly as with a decent camera and turn-by-turn navigation etc. As a result, Apple's iPhone is eventually coming of age and I may be tempted next time I am due an upgrade.)
Ignore for a moment that you can access the mobile site of the national rail service from the android browser there actually IS an app you can download which tracks trains, live arrival/departure boards etc. http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/travel/national-rail_gqpr.html
Want to rent a car from Sixt? You can do it with an Android app http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/travel/sixt-rent-a-car_bcit.html
Want to find where you parked your car, oh suprise, theres an app for that http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/travel/car-locator_oal.html
I coudlnt find an app to unlock your car on Android but then I got a bit bored after finding the three apps above that you claim to not be able to get on android phones. Besides the iphone app version only works with zipcars or if you have a special security system added to your car.
Android is increasingly being used by big companies, just take a look at the IBM Seer app for Wimbledon. Its incredibly polished http://www.eurodroid.com/2010/06/the-ibm-seer-android-wimbledon-ar-app-is-not-just-one-huge-advert/
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