back to article Apple reels as Steve Jobs Flashturbates

There was a time when Steve Jobs and Apple were cool. Jobs built a genius-like persona that was founded on his rare appearances and statements, and this was bolstered by his ability to deliver products that looked good, worked well, and forced others to follow. But 2010 is turning into the year Steve Jobs and Apple lost that …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Gee, Gavin, read The Reg's anti-Apple-ite fan rantings much?

    Losing their cool? You've got to be kidding. Who other than the "I won't do anything but Linux/Android" crowd and the "Windows makes me cream my pants when I think of Bill Gates" crowd would share these thoughts of yours that Apple is losing its cool?

    Apple is at the top of its game, and if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins, hooyah! Who the fuck cares that their competitors are upset. OMFG, I've upset the competitors - I'm sure Steve loses sleep over that one not one bit.

    Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war? Do you think she gives a flying fuck that some developer apps have been not approved? Has she ever heard of the walled garden issue that some techies have with Apple products?

    The answer of course is no. Apple has just achieved 2nd largest market cap company - they are at the top of their game, and this article is nothing but a sop to all the anti-Apple-ites on this (and other) forums. Sit back and watch them all, "yeah, I agree" over and over and over and over again while they all come up with more and more ways to say, "I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product."

    1. RegisterThis

      But the bigger you are the harder you fall and ...

      ... oh I cannot be bothered to explain to somebody who has zero clue about business!

    2. spodula
      Troll

      some random title.

      You may even be right, but i think Apple is now at the stage where Jobs is doing far more bad than good, and really wants to be pushed.

      I probably wont buy another apple product until they do. Dont particularly care about the Linux/Windows thing. I use both. I am old enough not to give a Damn about the politics of that particular argument.

      However, Jobs seems to be far too combatative. Not just Adobe, but their independant developers also regularly feel a Jobsian toungue-lashing ("No, you cant put that in the App store. No were not going to tell you why."). I've worked for bosses like that. I didnt like it much then either.

      There really must be a shedload of profit for Iphone apps that do pass the Jobsian Gestapo, because i have no idea why independant developers would otherwise want to develop for it.

      Your correct in that the average granny doesnt give a toss about such things, but I do. Ah well.

      C'est la Vie.

    3. Lamont Cranston

      Pains me to say it, but this is bang on.

      Developers may be angry, IT professionals and others "in the know" may be sneering at Apple/Jobs, but the punters are lapping up the product and care nothing for the story behind it.

      Ignorance is bliss...

    4. EvilGav 1

      Paranoid Much ??

      Apple aren't moving the web to open standards, given that the media tags used in the demo display H.264 video, not an open standard video.

      The web already has open standards, it's called HTML4 - you can read many books all about it.

      The point you seem to have missed, is that Apple isn't pushing any standards at all and certainly not open ones. HTML5 has been in the works for a number of years, long before Apple decided that they were the evangelists of the web. More to the point, the demo isn't even a demo of HTML5 - there are so many additional elements involved in the demo that to call it a demo of HTML5 is simply wrong.

    5. austin cheney
      Thumb Down

      Open standards... where?

      How is any of this about open standards if Apple has gone to incredible effort to lock down its IPhone/Pad platforms? There are death row inmates that have more freedom of expression than IPhone app developers. Additionally, there is all this talk of openness and a patent pool at the same time. Clearly, the point of this patent pool is a gathering to find grounds to engage in legal action opposed to protecting their legal ground from action. I want to say this all my Apple-hating cult-defying bias except that Apple did put out a HTML5 demo page that is all about this openness, but was in fact not open.

      This talk of openness in the context of Apple's conduct and business direction seems more than an ethical accident and rather a blatant lie. Honestly, I am absolutely astonished people are still drinking from the Apple punch at this stage in the game. If Apple were really about openness they would allow Flash on their platforms and provide their user's a method to disable Flash that is engaged by default. They would also not publish open standard demo pages that are anything but open, as well as a host of other openness defying behaviors.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        RE: Open standards... where?

        "How is any of this about open standards if Apple has gone to incredible effort to lock down its IPhone/Pad platforms?"

        Flash != open.

        "There are death row inmates that have more freedom of expression than IPhone app developers."

        That's completely right. Now take your medication before we're forced to tie your arms behind your back. Yes, there are applications that are not allowed on the iPhone/iPod but these are a tiny minority (less than 0.1%) and there are also things that are not allowed (code interpreting) but this is a valid way of preserving the quality of the user experience. Developers who can code in C/C++/ Java are not affected at all...

        "Apple did put out a HTML5 demo page that is all about this openness, but was in fact not open."

        Yes they did a mistake on their part. It is HTML5 though - just change your browsers identifying ID and every HTML5 compatible browser will work just fine ;)

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Linux

          Liberty vs. Tyranny

          It doesn't matter if Flash is open or not. I should be at liberty to use it and disable it as I see fit.

          It isn't about how good or bad the choice is but the fact that I am free to make it and don't have something rammed down my throat by some corporation that undoubtedly is only looking out for it's own financial interests.

          Are you really naieve enough to trust an American corporation to do the right thing?

          1. B 9

            An American corporation? Really?

            Maybe we should put BP in charge of it and see how well they do? Let's not get started on making fun of American corporations when it's not a uniquely American phenomena.

            As for "you should be at liberty to blah blah blah". While I understand that you may want that freedom to do that, Apple has an interest in making sure that nothing ruins the customer experience by causing battery drain, crashing, system slowdown, etc. If they allow a known POS app on their device they run the risk of getting a black eye in public perception of their products. They made a perfectly good decision, even admitted by the person who wrote this article, it's just that it pissed off a VERY small minority of tech geeks who probably actually care less about freedom, and more about bashing Apple. Let's be honest, those same tech geeks didn't like Apple before this because they didn't understand why Apple products engendered so much love from their users (hence their use of the denigrating, innacurate term "fanbois").

            You may not like Apple's decision, but it IS a decision made with the end user's experience in mind. You don't think Apple didn't realize they'd take a lot of heat for this stand, do you? And you're really not foolish enough to think that Apple wants to "control" you, do you? What possible benefit would they have in "controlling" you? Their is absolutely no motive to do this except to protect their product's reputation considering the possible negative PR fallout from taking this stand, so they might actually be taking a principled stand rather than this BS line about control that everyone is tossing about.

            I'm not a blind Apple supporter and think they can do no wrong. There's several things I'd change about Apple, but their decision to not allow Flash was not wrong. They have good solid reasons and they are sticking to their guns. This is not new territory for Apple, they are still the renegade that makes unique decisions that unemployed internet pundits don't always agree with.

    6. Richy Freeway
      Thumb Up

      I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

      I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

    7. thenim
      FAIL

      are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

      Seriously though... you need to get your head out of your arse... there is a valid point being raised here if you put the Apple/Adobe shite aside - HTML5...

      The problem with these so called "standards" is that they really aren't, a lot is left to the interpretation of various vendors (no surprise there as they are behind the whole shebang), and we have the current situation where each vendor has its own interpretation of the "vague" parts of the standard.

      The W3C needs to man up here, and remove any vagaries from the standard, constraining vendors to specific technologies - of course this will never happen, if they did the vendors will go away and no cushy jobs at the W3C...

      The situation will be worse than when the original HTML specs came out, at least then you had the IE way of doing things and the Mosaic way of doing things, now we're going to have Safari/Chrome/Mozilla/IE/Opera, each purporting to support standards but in reality, it's their own interpretation of the standards. End result, miserable lives for web developers, so in reality, they are not better off...

      Who cares about developers, it's the end user experience that matters I hear you say... This type attitude really is bollocks, innovation will suffer as developers will have to focus instead on getting consistency across platforms, so it will be the end user that suffers long term... And what's going to happen, well Adobe (or something similar) will release a product which will work consistently across all browsers..

      oh wait...

      HTML5 = EPIC FAIL

      1. dpg21
        Badgers

        RE: I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

        Well, you've certainly wasted less money on useless tat. Whether that makes you a better person, I couldn't say.

    8. snarf

      Where are all the grannies?

      Why do people always bang on about these "Grannies who just bought an iPad"? Has anybody actually met one?

    9. Captain Underpants
      Badgers

      Ignore the ranting types, they'll get bored eventually...

      "and if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins, hooyah!"

      You have a point about the fanboy subset of commenters, but it seems you've taken something very different from this article than I did. I can see how it might appear to be a sop to the anti-Apple posters, but the main thing I took from it is an interpretation of the ongoing Apple/Adobe spat over Flash and the protracted "open standards" conversation as a potentially huge threat to Apple's brand and reputation.

      I'm not a big fan of Apple chiefly down to their support offerings, but I can recognise what they do well and why they're exceptionally popular amongst their target markets. I've heard this variously characterised as "focused on user experience" or "selling a complete package", but they clearly offer something to the end-user that rival vendors don't. That's a compelling USP and one that I can easily respect regardless of personal preferences.

      Shifting the focus of the conversation to something like "open standards" when a large part of Apple's success with the user-experience aspect of their products has been specifically down to retaining as much control over their platforms as possible is a recipe for disaster. Talk about "open standards" will inevitably lead people to discuss associated topics like open-source software and peer review. At which point certain uncomfortable issues will crop up, including:

      the seemingly-arbitrary nature of some App Store rules and their enforcement (well within Apple's rights in terms of protecting their platform and branding, but not particularly "open" in the sense usually used in the context of "open standards" or "open source";

      their approach to fixing security issues such as the long-standing and baffling drive-by-download issue in Safari on OS X (which won't fare well in discussions about the benefits of open source software);

      the existence of non-Apple software that also conforms to the open standards in question, while also being open source;

      the spate of suicides at Foxconn's factory (widely described as an "iPhone factory" and thus something that, fairly or otherwise, will likely be blamed on Apple rather than Foxconn)

      I'm not for one second suggesting that all of these are relevant to the discussion - but that's not the point. The point is that moving the conversation away from the Apple focus on user-experience and towards open-standards (which pretty much requires comparisons between products and companies) suddenly opens Apple up to a bunch of criticisms that can't easily be dismissed.

      It's kind of hard to get level-headed discussion on this sort of thing at the minute, because almost all internet discussion about Apple seems to be polarised. But whether you like Apple or not, it has to be pretty straightforward to see it's not a good idea for Apple's head honcho to spend a bunch of time publicly reframing the discussion of Apple's products away from what they do well (user experience and selling a complete package) and towards something they don't do so well (open source/standards).

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Journalists love to neglect details...

        > Why do people always bang on about these "Grannies who just bought an iPad"? Has anybody > actually met one?

        Granny has to set her wifi up first.

        Then she needs to have a copy of iTunes running on a regular PC to activate and manage the iPad with.

    10. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      @WilliamLondon

      No matter how good your platform, it is useless without developers. If you alienate the people who would otherwise have written quality applications for your platform, it will go the way of all other "superior" operating systems before it.

      Having the best or the shiniest or the most religiously pure technology isn't enough. You need to have the support of developers, businesses and customers. Apple has customer support, (for now,) but they are the most fickle bunch. If Apple loses developer or business support, they will lose the customers as well.

      Apple can make good gear when they choose, but their marketing and control freakery decisions are beginning to have an impact. It has nothing to do with “I’m better than an Apple lover.” It has everything to do with “I want to be able to make money from the applications I create.” Platform companies like Apple or Microsoft have a hard task: they need to take a skim off of everything in order to stay in the billions, but that skim can’t be too high or else they drive everyone away. At the same time, they need to give the appearance of consistency and easy-to-understand rules, regulations and even development APIs and environments. If I code my application for your platform, I need to know that it won’t be arbitrarily rejected, have the APIs yanked out from under it in the next version, or that some change in the rules prevent me from accessing my revenue source. (Such as in-application advertising.)

      I know I’ve said this before just recently, but IT isn’t about religious ideology. It’s business.

    11. Bendy
      Jobs Horns

      What is iPad?

      Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war?

      No, the Grannie wonders why a Lego brick has replaced the content on lots of web pages, why here favourite website is missing half of it's content and what is this Adobe Flash thing?

      Take it from me, I have both an iPad and a Grannie and have tried them together.

      Whilst forcing Standards upon people is sometimes the only way to change luddites, If it's at the cost of a large percentage of the web's content not working it's not a good option and will only result in lots of returns of the product.

      What is iPad? A way of removing £700 quid from people with waaaaaay too much money.

      I want a Grannie Icon please.

    12. Captain Save-a-ho
      Grenade

      Put down the crack pipe

      What does market cap and making a profit have to do with a criticism of Steve Jobs and his personal obsession with killing off Flash or his psychotic compulsion to prevent people from having rights over the contents of the devices they purchase? If you like Apple and it's products, good for you. But this article doesn't really point out anything that isn't readily apparent to those following the tech industry as a whole. Jobs and Apple have a well-documented history that lines up (mostly) with the claims and statements of the article.

      Also, what fucking planet are you from, to think that people on this site are so enamored with Window$ and Micro$haft that they display the same idiotic thinking about MS that you so clearly do about Apple? You're definitely NOT reading that here. I'm certain that El Reg can count on one hand the number of MS homers on this site.

      The sound you hear is reality passing you by.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down

        @Kappie save a something

        Hmmm, what does market cap and making a profit have to do with the article? What does it have to do with cool is more what you should be asking, because that's the whole point of the article. The point made is that it is a bit silly to declare Apple uncool when people are flocking to its products in record numbers. Yeah, really uncool company. I think the ones who think Apple is uncool are a small and vocal minority that believe everything they read and feel they know SJ better than their own mothers.

        Now, perhaps, it's you who should put the crack pipe down (and pass it this way<grin>).

        1. Captain Save-a-ho
          Big Brother

          Re: AC @ 11:14

          Never said that Apple was or wasn't cool, but sure as hell didn't overreact to an article that can be found in spades across the whole of the Internet. The whole point of the article, pretty clearly, was about the negative impact that Steve Jobs (and his psycho tendencies) is finally having on the perception of Apple and its products. Do you even understand what reading comprehension is? WTF?

          You can gladly have the crack pipe all to yourself. And it would still greatly behoove you to get a solid dose of reality for a change. Apple has made a dramatic comeback from the verge of irrelevance, only for Jobs to become to big for his britches. Don't you remember the 1984 commercial? Apple was the anti-establishment computer company. Now what are they? Big Brother. So put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Bendy

        Patience. The web won't change overnight, but it is changing and those little blue legos become fewer every day. Patience. Rome wasn't built in a day.

    13. Aylee
      WTF?

      Hmmm...

      ...Apple fanboys aren't what they used to be, the effort to make a coherent arguement seems to have escaped this one entirely.

    14. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      What a well reasoned counter-argument

      by the commentor above... Seriously, with fanbois like this Stevey can pretty much do as he pleases because they will lap up and promote any partly digested stuff he throws. The point is that Apple have set in place the positive feedback loop between more users and more quality apps and content that is hard to break. The only thing that can stop them is competitors who get their act together and make something compelling... These tech forum articles and comments can do little against whatever Apple chooses to do, notwithstanding walled garden and standards violations.

    15. Quxy
      Thumb Down

      Stop yer whinging...

      ...el Reg is an equal-opportunity tech basher, and Gavin's name got drawn from the hat to be fanboi Andrew's counterpoint.

    16. Neoc

      Gee, WillianLondon, have we even read the same article?

      Apart from the Pot calling the Kettle "black" (you rant on that non-Applers are ranting against Apple), your comment misses the entire point of view of the article.

      At no point did the author even talk about the end user (your proverbial "Grannie") - the article was about the stance Apple in general (and Steve Job in particular) are taking in the *IT* world. Not the *user* world. It was discussing the fact that Apple and Jobs were now making spurious statements about personal pet-peeves which had a roll-on effect in the *IT Professional* world. (my interpretation of the article, YMMV). It didn't address Joe Public or *their* perception of the War of Words currently raging between Apple and Adobe (and Google, and Microsoft, and...)

      And it was correctly pointing out that if Apple/Jobs continue being belligerent and having over-the-top knee-jerk reactions, they would alienate the very people who make the iP* Apple's killer product - the Apps programmers. Because let's face it - for all the technological marvel you may (or may not) see in the iP* series, they would be failures had it not be for the apps available in iTunes. And if you piss off the App developers for long enough, they will eventually move on.

      I myself am Tech-agnostic: I don't give a damn *who* makes the product so long as it does what I need it to do and does it well (for as cheap as possible while maintaining a certain level of quality or higher). So I have WD drives (because I never had problems with them) in all my PCs, which run a combination of Linux or XP (depending on what they need to do), I have a HTC phone dual booting Windows and Android. I have a Sony Amp, a Panasonic DVD player and a Samsung LED TV and, yes, I'll admit I do not have a single Apple product. Why? Because they have not yet made a product I need to fulfil a need I have. That's all. (although the iPad comes close, I admit it... but I have no real need for it)

    17. Anonymous Coward
      Unhappy

      WillLondon ...

      OK and breathe...

      I think you have missed a lot of the pretty good points made in this article by just blowing it all as soon as something slightly critical of Apple's approach appears.

      At present, Apple is doing more harm towards the creation of a universally adopted platform agnostic HTML5 standard than is good for all of us in the longer term than any of the other browser vendors. They are behaving like Microsoft did in the 90s when a slew of proprietary IE extensions left us with the web we still have lingering on today.

      And everybody is a loser if that happens again, sadly.

    18. BillG Silver badge
      Grenade

      Irony is best served cold with coleslaw and chips

      This article cracks me up - today, with my 1.6GHz Core Duo laptop and 4G RAM, my laptop that is fast enough to handle any damn thing - it took Firefox 3.6.3 exactly 40 seconds to completely load The Reg's home page - YES, I timed it, damn it, just so you could read it here!

      WHY did it take so damned long? Because of all the FLASH on the right-hand side of The Reg's home page, specifically something from legolas-media(dot)com stalled loading the page for 25 seconds.

      And I completely agree with WilliamLondon. Apple's competitors are upset? Well, gee, Apple MUST be doing something RIGHT then, huh?

      Flash has become bulky, clunky, cumbersome - and unstable.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Sheeple consumers will always be fleeced.

        > This article cracks me up - today, with my 1.6GHz Core Duo laptop and 4G RAM,

        > my laptop that is fast enough to handle any damn thing - it took Firefox 3.6.3 exactly

        > 40 seconds to completely load The Reg's home page - YES, I timed it, damn it, just

        > so you could read it here!

        Like I said. You have the freedom to choose how much you buy into this flash nonsense.

        If El Reg is taking 40 seconds to load it's only because you allow it to.

      2. vic 4
        WTF?

        40 secs!

        40 secs, what else is running, it took less than 3 secs on my (single core) intel 2.13GHz 1Gb Dell inspiron which is around 7 years old. I'm also connected to a remote network via citrix, listening to music via SPotify and also doing a complete rebuild/unit test of a huge software base, so both my internet connection and machine is busy.

        [troll]Of course I am running on linux[/troll]

      3. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge
        FAIL

        @BillG

        Which is why I have AdBlock and NoScript installed on FF. I suspect the flash adverts I'm not seeing are being blocked by the first, since there is no grey place holder there that I would otherwise have to click on to see the flash content.

        You see, I have the choice about whether or not I can see this, because for all of Windows' failings, it does at least allow me a fairly decent amount of control over my own property (or in this case, my employer's property).

        And FYI, I am using an XP box with a dual core P4 2.8 Ghz and a measly gigabyte of RAM. I just timed how long it took to open FF3.6.3 to open up and load the Reg's home page and it was a smidge under five seconds, most of which was taken up by loading the app from disk, by the sounds of it. If, as you say, the page styalled loading because of the Flash content, I would suggest that it is the CONTENT that slowed you down - perhaps something to do with having to download the video content of an advert over your internet connection. Would this be any quicker with HTML4? I doubt it.

        But then you 'completely agree with WilliamLondon' so would appear to be living in a parallel universe where logic was dropped on its head as a child.

    19. Adam Williamson 1
      FAIL

      Grannie?

      "Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war?"

      Grannies don't buy iPads. Trendy twats with far too much money buy them to use as toys. Check the demographics.

    20. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge
      Stop

      Grannies?

      I don't know how many will actually want an iPad, but I would imagine there would be a few who, if given such a thing, would ask why it doesn't display the web pages that they can view perfectly well on their PC (be it a box with Windows installed on it or whatever) properly, because of Apple's edict to ban flash.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to "cream my pants when I think of Bill Gates" (ew), and really I couldn't give a crap either way about Apple. I've never found the need to spend my money on any of their devices, but many have.

      I just think your straw man argument about grannies and your ad-hominem attack on users of anything that isn't Apple are rather puerile, and, quite frankly, I have heard them before a number of times. The amount of bile you seem to be spouting at anyone who doesn't appear to like Apple as much as you is in truth rather sad. At the end of the day, they're only consumer devices and if they are that important to you, I'd suggest that maybe you are missing out on other, more important, aspects of a full and well-rounded social life.

      1. B 9

        Your reply is dishonest at best

        "The amount of bile you seem to be spouting at anyone who doesn't appear to like Apple as much as you"

        No, sorry, but that is not what he said. You don't have to like Apple, but his beef (and mine) is with blind haters of Apple, and the Reg does appear to be full of them. Many of them who rant on Apple also appear to have swallowed the anti-Apple koolaid and their arguments are lame at best, and downright dishonest at other times. Your reply is a perfect example. You mis-characterized his plainly clear argument and then tried to use that to take the moral high ground. Perhaps being honest and accurate should be your first steps and then you can help take the speck out of your brother's eye?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Jobs is a pompous twat.

    And I'm so bored with these stories about his every fart.

  3. kode
    Thumb Up

    Jobs is an a$$hole

    After 16 years of being mac-only I finally got fed up with Jobs, Apple and their most vocal and delusional fanbois and made the switch to Windows 7. I'm now using Adobe CS5 products (Master Collection) on the Windows and couldn't be happier. I wouldn't mind, and actually have wished that Adobe would make their products pc-only. The absolutely best thing would be them switching all the mac development to linux development though ;) I'd be more than happy to use linux full time.

    The only way I'd get back to mac would be if Jobs was out from Apple and the religous cult-thing Apple have successfully used for years was used no more, although that being their main base of success that's not going to happen. Jobs is certainly getting old, and probably we'll be seeing lot more of his incoherent ramblings in the near future, which will be entertaining. But before he's out of the picture in one way or another I'd like to see him see Apple failing badly. According to rumours (biographies, stories from Apple employees) he's always been an insufferable wanker and I'd like nothing more than for him to get a good kick in the ass. Yeah, I really don't have respect for him. I've seen him spread the lies for past 16 years and getting away with it with billions of cash in the pockets.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If anything...

    ...Jobs' verbal destruction of Flash makes me want to use more Macs and Apple devices.

    I really don't miss Flash ads on my iPhone, and who wants instability just so they can play a pointless Flash game?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reels ? Really ?

    Although I mostly agree with this article, I fail to see what developers would do about His Jobness' personal vendettas. They'll cry foul, and whine about it, but they'll continue to develop. The whole iPhone success was due to the app store. There's how many iMobileDevices sold now ? Something in the 60 million range ? Most of those folks have bought apps, which means they have invested in their device(s). Do you honestly think they'll switch to WinMo 7 or Android if that means that they'll have to buy the apps they use all over again on the other markets ?

    Besides that, most of those buyers are, I presume, "just" consumers. They want a device that works, that they can show off with, and Apple has given it to them. Most people (again, presumption) really don't care whether or not Apple supports Flash, or if i(Phone)OS is "open" enough.

    Jobsie did make a big mistake using the HTML5 moniker to declare his so-called openness, but again: people don't care. And neither do the regular media. You won't see this stuff on the first page of The Sun, or even the third page (fortunately).

    Face it: developers will have to swallow Apple's politics if they want to get their product sold.

    For the record: I've used pretty much all of them (Nokia, Android, WinMo 6.5 and iPhone) over the last few years, and right now I'm still using an iPhone. I don't like everything about it, but in general I prefer it to the others. I was thinking about getting a Nexus One, but multitasking and flash (ha ha) are not really important to me. After all, it's still mainly a frickin' phone.

  6. DZ-Jay

    Hypocrisy

    >> "For decades, Apple produced advances that such people couldn't — religion aside — really argue with: the reliability and ease of the Mac, the convenience of the iPod and iTunes, and the breakthrough of touch on the iPhone. People overlooked the closed nature of these systems, or at least forgave them[...]"

    Except that this is not actually true. For the past decade, the tech press has been criticizing Apple for everything they do. Even The Register announced boldly and proudly that the iPod and the iPhone would be utter flops because they were nothing like what the competition had in offer.

    And before this decade, the tech press were even busier announcing with great conviction the imminent death of the company.

    So tell me, Mr. Clarke, why is it different now when you use phrases like "is risking his credibility", "will also backfire on Apple", and "will lose supporters" for the same purpose?

    The Internet may be a very large place, but apparently the echo of a just a small few is enough to resonate loudly. While this supposed "war" is taking place, Apple products are selling at a fast rate, and developers are joining the ranks at an unprecedented pace--in spite of those dreaded policies.

    You know who doesn't really care about all this? The end users, who seem to be happy forking off the bucks.

    -dZ.

    1. Daren Nestor
      Jobs Halo

      'fess up

      If it was a phone you were after, you wouldn't use an iPhone, because as a mobile telephone, it's one of the worst on the market. The sound quality is poor, its antenna is poor and it randomly drops calls.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        RE: 'fess up

        "If it was a phone you were after, you wouldn't use an iPhone, because as a mobile telephone, it's one of the worst on the market. The sound quality is poor, its antenna is poor and it randomly drops calls."

        Mine has great sound quality compared to the Motorola I had previously, it's never dropped any calls either. Maybe the antenna isn't as poor as you think?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Troll

        @Daren

        Odd, haven't had those issues (except for one point with lousy coverage, had the same issue with all phones there). Reception does get worse after reading some articles on good ol' El Reg, but that's mostly after I I don my tinfoil hat :-)

    2. Ted Treen
      WTF?

      @Kode. Well...

      I'm using CS5 on a new Mac Pro, and I'm happy. I couldn't really care if Adobe ports CS5 to the Commodore PET, Sinclair Spectrum or re-writes it for the Z80 or anything else.

      As long as I've got what I'm happy with, I don't care where else they market/apply it..

      And yes, I've been a techie for over 35 years now (and 22 years of being Mac only) , so I've seen at least as much change as you - probably more - and no, I'm not overly happy with the Apple-Adobe war that's broken out, nor do I agree with Mr Jobs' diatribe against Adobe/Flash.

      However, I still think Leopard>Win7, and Mac>Dell (or anything else), so that's the way I go.

      Running off with invective against Apple and issuing pointless statements like "...and actually have wished that Adobe would make their products pc-only. .." give you all the appearance of a sour-grapes, petulant child or a rejected lover, which I'm sure isn't true.

      You also claim "...I've seen him spread the lies for past 16 years..."

      Is this just child-like invective, or can you supply definitive unequivocal examples, please?

      1. Naughtyhorse
        FAIL

        Techie <cough>bollocks<cough>

        Point 1

        you are by your own admision a fanboi, therefore de facto a NON techie. You are a consumer.

        Point 2 _any_ genuine techie with 35 years experience would know full well that the speccy infact did use a Z80 chip. So if cs5 was ported to the spectrum it would not then need to be re written in Z80 code as that would have been a_fairly_important part of porting it to the speccy in the first place.

        hint - if you want to look like a techie - wiki things first. wiki may be lagley bollocks, but it's a damn sight more clued up than you (see points one and two)

        1. Ted Treen
          Flame

          usual arrogant crap from a know-it-all (who doesn't)..

          I was a techie with Burroughs Machines in the early eighties - pre Unisys days - and linked Burroughs (i.e. re-badged Convergent Technologies) micros with Burroughs minis & IBM minis etc.

          Funnily enough, we found very few Spectrums used commercially, so I confess a) I never used one and b) I don't know what they were built from, and c) I did not care the, and care even less now. So the guy who fixes our car (and does it very well) isn't a REAL mechanic if he doesn't know the jet needle for a 1937 Morris?

          You say "..you are by your own admision a fanboi, therefore de facto a NON techie..."

          Pure sophistry - or, if you're unsure what sophistry is, let me rephrase it in the vernacular.

          Pure bollocks.

          Anyway, in your rush to prove your uber-knowledge (sad, really) of archaic toys, you completely lost the meaning of my post which was to say that I really don't give a damn if Adobe port CS5 to any OS with more than 2 surviving machines, so Kodes desire to stop Adobe producing Mac software was little more than childish petulance

          I think your egotistical implication that you are clued up is little more than wishful thinking.

          Perhaps you could get out more. English comprehension classes, possibly?

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple is almost irrelevant in the fight for multimedia-standards

    Content will decide. Adobe, Apple and MS won't have the power to change anything if Google gets it right with WebM and their supposedly royalty-free codecs, unless they're prepared for a dirty fight in the courtrooms shoulder to shoulder with MPEG LA. The future for truly open multimedia content looks brighter than it has done in a long time.

  8. Niles
    Thumb Up

    Spot on.

    Well you've nailed that. Well done.

  9. Pretendiname
    Jobs Horns

    I have recently given up on Apple

    My MBP is a Uniboot Ubuntu machine, and I will not be advocating, nor spending any more money on apple crap for the foreseeable future. I have historically spent more than all the cars I have owned on Apple products - so I am not a hater as such.

    The ego running that business has, exactly as the article summarised, alienate me.

    Can you imagine how far flash would have spread if you had to ask Adobe before you made a stupid game, or a flash intro to your house? It is unthinkable. Adobe have been an enabler, and now they are carving new possibilities in the current market. To allow flash to be recompiled for the iPhone was good business sense for Adobe, and really it is Apple's loss.

    The other massively arrogant move that upset me recently their recent litigiousness. I detested Nokia for their massive patent back catalogue, but now I respect them for being restrained in it's use. It is largely, these days, a way for companies to prevent themselves from litigation. Normally small companies get the benefit of the doubt, and big companies realistically understand that progress is for the masses, and competition comes from doing things well.

    Apple on the other hand has the business methodology - if someone innovates, buy them out and patent the floor tiles of the place. If they refuse to sell, poo-poo their technology or better yet, use it as inspiration. I am thinking of Swype.. but I think they mostly make the purchase and people bow/fall in line.

    Apple IS Steve Jobs, and Steve Jobs is the most arrogant Buddhist in the known universe. I am incredibly suspicious of him, and I worry about Apple's future. And all our future's if Apple ever dominate in the scale Microsoft had.

    Some blonde athlete, please throw a sledgehammer at the next keynote.

  10. umakegoodcookies

    pot meet kettle

    "Mischaracterizing technologies to prove a point is a fast track to losing credibility among coders and other experts in the biz"

    Which, in this article, could be reworded as mischaracterizing argument to prove a point is a fast track to losing credibility among readers.

    Jobs admitted in the mentioned interview that Adobe wasn't agressive about Flash not being on the iPhone. When the iPad was announced Apple reiterated the exact same flash story they've been telling since the iPhone appeared. They felt html5 was the way to go. Then, because of the extra press the iPad was getting Adobe laid out the first attack.

    Your characterization makes it look like Jobs ignored the history and accused Adobe of being an agressor all along. If anything, it was the press that egged these guys into a fight but Adobe did make the first move... unless you want to go back and characterize Apple's original non-inclusion of flash as the beginning. But that's not what your article says.

    The only remotely valid point in this article is that Apple should have followed their own policy on the analytics software immediately rather than later. But then again, where's the condemnation of the analytics companies who were knowingly violating the developer agreement in the first place.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Alternatively

    SJ is actually endeavouring to become a little more human in his later years and drop the enigmatic deity approach to running his company. Personally, I prefer the latter even though it obviously shatters all of your illusions of the image you think he's tried so hard to build.

    And, truthfully, the bottom line is that Apple's products either work with his current business model or they don't. They've back out of decisions before, and they'll do it again if they have to.

    The point, really, is that right now they don't have to. Continue to enjoy the smell of your own farts, Reg, but SJ is doing largely what anybody else would in his position. Just don't make the mistake of assuming he won't back down when he absolutely HAS to. The fun, the amusement I reckon, is watching just how long he's willing to hold out before he does.

  12. Eponymous Howard
    Thumb Down

    You...

    ...don't really understand much about business, do you?

  13. Andy Baird

    Get your facts straight!

    "During the three years that Flash has been blocked from the iPhone..."

    Whoa, there! Let's look at the record.

    When the iPhone was introduced, Adobe didn't have a workable version of Flash to run on it. Apple couldn't have put Flash on the iPhone if it had wanted to.

    When the iPhone 3G was introduced a year later, Adobe still didn't have a version of Flash for mobile devices.

    When the iPhone 3GS came out a year after that, Adobe *still* didn't have a version of Flash for mobile devices.

    Now, three years and four iPhones later, Adobe *still* has no shipping "Flash Mobile" product. They have a buggy beta version which, according to those who've tested it and/or seen it demoed, dramatically shortens battery life, crashes a lot, and doesn't work at all with many Flash-based websites.

    So before you rewrite history and blame Evil Apple, bear in mind that it's ADOBE that has yet to deliver a usable version of Flash for mobiles.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    CSS is *not* part of HTML 5

    Why the continued reference to CSS as part of HTML 5? The only thing that the the upcoming latest "releases" of the stylesheet language and the mark-up language have in common is that small parts of each are finally reaching a stable-enough state that browsers are starting to implement those parts.

    In an article criticizing the use of HTML5 as an umbrella term for "next generation Web", you'd think the author might try to avoid making the same mistake himself….

    1. James Butler
      Thumb Down

      Engage Brain

      Yeah ... all of those smartphones running Flash must be imaginary, I guess. You should really look at brands other than those provided by Apple, once in a while. Many of them run web browsers that have no problem at all including a Flash plugin.

    2. vic 4
      Thumb Down

      Adobe could not target flash for the iphone

      > Adobe didn't have a workable version of Flash to run on it.

      And what would what would be the point of developing one, interpreted code has always been banned, and would have been money and effort completely wasted. Adobe, saw the demand for developers wanting to develop iphone apps in flash so invested time and effort to produce a development tool which would create native iphone apps without the need for a runtime/interpreter, at which point Apple changed the rules to prevent this.

      BTW, i hate flash but that's my opinion.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    home

    Ha .. your fanboi rant amuse's us

  16. Raceimaztion
    Thumb Up

    Spot on, actually

    This article summarizes all my thoughts on how badly Apple is doing these days.

    When a large company starts to beat on other companies for no GOOD reason (and there have been no proper reasons stated for all the bashing Apple has been doing), you just know something at the core of the company is starting to go horribly, horribly wrong.

    The other problem with being at the top of one's game is the fact that there are precious few ways to go but back down.

    Pixar is the only company I know of that has kept on their game in being number one without slipping an inch, and every other company I can think of that reached a high point in their history have lost touch with what got them there in the first place and slid far back downwards.

    1. RichyS
      WTF?

      Pixar

      You know who owns Pixar, right?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        RE: Pixar

        Walt Disney own them and have since 2006...

        (Wikipedia says so ;)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Yes, but who owns Disney....

          I think you'll find Mr Jobs is now one of the larger share holders, as Disney paid a hefty price in shares to acquire Pixar.

  17. Svein Skogen
    Grenade

    The correct solution would be...

    The correct solution would be for all ISVs to leave Apple. All of them. Let Apple alone develop for OSX and iWhatnot. This time he's after Adobe. Not because it's Adobe, but because they have a product that's in the way of apple-domination. Who's next?

    Get out of their products while you can. Simply tell the Apple customers that "If you want our applications, or drivers for that gadget of yours? Ditch the fruitcase."

    Apple has, again, and again, shown that they will stop at nothing to break compatibility, sabotage vendors who are "in their way", etc. It's time the independent software vendors simply cut their losses, and left all things Apple behind and never looked back.

    //Svein

  18. David 165
    Thumb Down

    Anti-apple much?

    Why not report on the news from and impartial standpoint? Isn't that what a reported is supposed to do?

    I have never cared much for proprietary web languages such as flash. I never likes being able to bookmark those sites or the non-standard navigation where every site redefined navigation rules.

    I hope that Apples standpoint speeds up the move to the open HTML 5 standard.

  19. Thomas 18
    Joke

    HTML 5 according to Apple

    It's the future of the web, but only for 3.5% of you!

  20. Ben 4
    Thumb Up

    Interesting article

    Extremely well written article. Very balanced and a great comentary on what is happening with the muddying of HTML5.

    @WilliamLondon - Well you've definately lost your cool haven't you? You've really missed the point.

    You cannot preach about how wonderful and open a technology is and then use it in a completely closed way. If Jobs was really intersested in openness (the shear though of that is a joke) he would have created a showcase for HTML5 that worked on all HTML5 compliant browsers.

    But even then he is highlighting selective features of a yet unfinished specification in order to attack an existing technology that he has a personal problem with.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @Ben 4

      You are the one that has missed the point and shows obvious misunderstanding of what demos are all about.

      Take the blinders off - if Mozilla had published an HTML5 page, you'd be screaming why didn't Apple?

      Apple have no obligation to ensure that every browser (which btw don't all support HTML5, not fully, not at all, not in the same way because it's a fucking unratified standard) demos this site.

      And as for Flash - Apple's move to get off this proprietary standard is good for consumers most of all. Unless, you're of the Microshaft mindset.

      1. Captain Save-a-ho
        Grenade

        Re: AC @ 10:50

        "Apple have no obligation to ensure that every browser (which btw don't all support HTML5, not fully, not at all, not in the same way because it's a fucking unratified standard) demos this site."

        You're right. But, in support of an open standard, they DO have an responsibility to adhere to the standard itself and NOT include some douche-bag Javascript hack intended to force people to use Safari. Are all of you people really THAT confused about the definition of the word "OPEN"?

        And how appropriate that you chose the FAIL icon. Ah, sweet irony.

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Focusing on all the wrong details...

        > Take the blinders off - if Mozilla had published an HTML5 page, you'd be screaming why didn't

        > Apple?

        If Mozilla would have published an HTML5 page, it would have been absent the FUD and active sabotage.

        The whole point of HTML5, even including Steve's own rhetoric, is that it is vendor and platform neutral.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      RE: Interesting article

      "If Jobs was really intersested in openness (the shear though of that is a joke) he would have created a showcase for HTML5 that worked on all HTML5 compliant browsers."

      Change your browser ID to masquerade as Safari and you'll find that the showcase works just fine.

  21. Howard Cole
    Paris Hilton

    Vitriol

    Like most tech people here I do not really like the anti-competitive way that Apple control their marketplace. However it seems as if the rhetoric by some of the much-loved Register hacks is becoming a little vitriolic and not quite as balanced or amusing as I would hope for.

    Yes there is a story to report here, but I cannot quite see it as any more anti-competitive than most other firms that are in Apples position, and therefore does not warrant a daily tirade of anti-jesus propoganda.

    Is there no other IT news at present? Has Paris Hilton gone underground?

    Please - don't force me to read the Daily Mail (UK Trash Tabloid) for my balanced news feed!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Howard Cole

      Not anti-competitive, just competitive.

  22. Deadly_NZ
    Grenade

    Hey Steve

    Maybe next time you could hold your breath until you till you turn blue... how many more times do we have to watch him spit the dummy and throw all his toys out of his cot???

    Grow up and learn that all the half truths will come back and bite you in the ASS

    Dont own anything by Apple Dont run any cruddy bloatware written by Apple and Never will..

  23. Muckminded

    Substandards

    Apple HTML5 showcase: standards so open, they're proprietary.

    The reason Jobs always looks emaciated is because it's hard to eat with your foot in your mouth.

  24. EWI
    Dead Vulture

    "Ahab-like pursuit of Flash player"?

    Really? Adobe started this with their Flash CS5 attempt to do an end-run around Apple's App Store, and their OTT response when Apple (unsurprisingly) told them to go to hell has been the match to the current row. If anyone's "Ahab-like" about Flash, it's Adobe.

    As Jobs has repeatedly challenged them: produce a Flash runtime that actually works on mobile devices. We still don't have a shipping full Flash on such gadgets...

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Goddamn that man for forcing the adoption of new, open standards.

    The bastard! How dare he drive people away from proprietary dog shit like Flash towards HTML, CSS and JS. What a fucking swine for making these new technologies the shit-hot topic of the day, and shite from Adobe and MS yesterday's news. My god put the fucker down now so that people don't dare to make moves away from the old to the new. We don't want progress, we want more of the same old shit we've been getting for the past decade.

    Seriously, the folks at Mozilla and Opera couldn't see a bandwagon that they should jump on if it mowed them down in the street.. Instead of fucking whinging all the fucking time, try using news about something that should be your forte to your advantage you idiots! But no, they're going to bellyache and make it seem to the no nothing user that HTML5 etc is not a valid replacement for Flash and WON'T BE FOR SOME TIME. What unbelievable morons they are.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      RE: "Ahab-like pursuit of Flash player"?

      "As Jobs has repeatedly challenged them: produce a Flash runtime that actually works on mobile devices. We still don't have a shipping full Flash on such gadgets..."

      I'd be even more impressed if they could make a decent version for OSX. Its even worse on my laptop than it is on my friends PC laptop. It causes the fan to kick into overdrive and it eats so many CPU cycles that the system becomes noticaby slower.

      It's this kind of sloppyness that astonishes me about Adobe. They used to be a market leader but now the software that they distribute most (ie the players) turn out to be full of security holes (on PC at least) and that's hardly the best advert for your company is it? "Gee, I'll take some software that slows my computer down, causes the fan to go crazy and is full of security holes. Great. Oh, it's a closed format too is it? Even better."

    2. Captain Save-a-ho
      Coat

      Still don't have Flash on phones?

      Google doesn't seem to have a problem using Flash, but that must just because they love Beta software, right? I mean, it's not like Safari 5 had problems on release...oh wait.

      It's not like Macs ever crash...oh wait.

      Well, Macs never explode...umm.

      Never mind.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        Macs crash?

        Macs do crash sometimes, and you know what, it's usually a flash app that causes it...

  26. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    @WilliamLondon

    Missed the point much? Yes, Grannie doesn't care if the iPad runs HTML5, or anything else. But remember the reason that the iPhone was so popular. iPhone worked where others didn't because of the AppStore. Remember the "There's an app for that" adverts. People bought the iPhone in droves because it would do virtually anything they wanted on the move. The reason previous smart phones didn't work was not touch, or being the shiniest phone on the block. The reason was the mobile web was not that great. The web was formatted for big screens, and very few people built decent sites for mobile web, and when they did you couldn't find them. iPhone had a great web browser that actually worked for pages normally formatted for big screens. But when you wanted to use OpenTable, you didn't use the website, you downloaded the app. Same for google maps, youtube, or any other popular site.

    Now there is a problem though. Other app stores are gaining momentum. Having looked in detail at what is on offer in the iPhone and Android app stores, and there is little between them now. Now, if you piss off your developers, they will start to give up on your store. Therein lies the problem. It won't affect you now, but it might affect you in 2 years time, when you have the worst app store on the market, and people are buying other products for that reason. It won't definitely happen - Apple haven't burnt all their bridges just yet. But as a mobile application developer, how many stories about apps being pulled for no apparent reason does it take to persuade you to spend you developer hours coding things for a platform where you are pretty much guaranteed of being able to publish the app? I know that if I was a mobile application developer, a year ago I would have developed for the iPhone because it was the only relevant platform. Now, I would be developing for Android. It outsold the iPhone in the first quarter of this year in the US, so I have more new customers to go after, and I know my app won't get pulled from the store for being too widgety, or one of the many other bizarre reasons that the Apple App Store gives you.

    Finally, what about Flash. This is interesting. A lot of my work colleagues have iPads and iPhones. With the iPhone itself not having flash is an annoyance. On the iPad though there are plenty of websites you definitely want to visit that use Flash. And until 80-90% of web browsers out there support HTML5 (and HTML5 is standardised) they aren't going to change - that change is years away. You don't mind a limited functionality app for social networking from your phone - you expect full functionality on the iPad though. Flash is crap and flash adverts are annoying, but it isn't going anywhere soon, and people want to use it. When Android has Flash in large quantities, and when we see our first Android pads, we could well see Jobs back away from what is a personal and rather silly decision. If not, we could watch iPhone and iPad become also-rans in a race dominated by others.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Granny ain't so dumb.

    "Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war? Do you think she gives a flying fuck that some developer apps have been not approved? Has she ever heard of the walled garden issue that some techies have with Apple products?"

    That's pretty well what Edison said about AC electricity. Eventually consumers do find out about these things and that's when monopolists get a surprise.

    Apple has no interest in open standards. None at all.

  28. Rainer
    FAIL

    "Banned from the iPhone for three years"?

    You must be kidding.

    Mobile Flash simply does not exist (other than on Laptops).

    A small but inconvenient fact that Adobe forgets to mention every time it slams Apple and the iPhone.

    Adobe has been promising it for years.

    It's literally the Duke Nukem Forever of the smartphone world.

    Also, Flash is next to useless on any device:

    - video-play -> HTLM5

    - flash-ads -> who wants those anyway? I now run Click2Flash on my Mac and the only thing I miss are ads.

    That only leaves games - but as the upcoming release of the infamous "Farmville" for iPhone and iPad proves, one doesn't need Flash to have a popular game on a Flash-less platform.

    The iPhone is its own platform - and rightfully so.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      RE: Granny ain't so dumb.

      "Apple has no interest in open standards. None at all."

      No interest in closed standards like Flash though do they?

      ...and, oh, let me see - they advocate HTML5 as a suitable replacement...

      What was your point again?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The point is, stupid

        That, like any big company, they're interested in market control. If HTML 5 helps with that, then they'll use it and make up reasons why. If Flash works against that, which it does, then they'll drop it and make up reasons why. Like MS, they have no interest in open standards as a philosophy of how to make the world work better and will - and do - discard the idea when it is convenient.

        HTML 5 isn't even all that good, frankly. Unless you're paid to attend the W3C meetings, of course, then it's fucking fab.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Unhappy

      App Store

      "Therein lies the problem. It won't affect you now, but it might affect you in 2 years time, when you have the worst app store on the market, and people are buying other products for that reason."

      I own a Pre, and I can tell you that Apple will NEVER have the worst app store on the market

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No mobile flash, eh?

      Then how does homestarrunner.com work flawlessly on an HTC Hero right out of the box?

  29. Matthew 17

    Another pointless Reg rant about Apple

    Seriously guys, just let it go!

    Apple sell boxes, they sell an awful lot of them. Their phones are very popular too, part of the appeal of these phones is the available software library, it's quite large as 'there's an App for just about anything!'.

    Whether you agree with Mr. Jobs or not given the large number of boxes they continue to sell and the large number of fresh applications available for their boxes it's clear that for majority of consumers / developers, no-one gives a shit.

  30. adrian sietsma
    Troll

    Here we go again

    Clearly being an apple fan doesn't require reading comprehension skills :

    "Apple ... if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins, hooyah! "

    The move to open standards has been going on for a long time, and some of the current fuss is about Apple mis-representing this. But, if you want to believe that SteveJ invented everything good, go ahead. It makes a change from hearing that BillG invented the PC and BASIC.

    Some of us use a variety of kit from a variety of companies, without needing to link our self-image to the "coolness" or otherwise of any one co. You don't have to be a unix/windows "fan" to see flaws in Apple (or MS, or *nix).

  31. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    FAIL

    Uncool

    Sure, Adobe went stale after the 1990s but many of the attacks were undeserved. Advertisers' desire to consume as many resources as possible will persist whether Flash exists or not. Remember high frame rate animated GIFs that looped forever? Advertisers will drain the battery with poorly coded H.264 and JavaScript animations too. Last time I checked, QuickTime wasn't any less prone to crashing than Flash, either. It's great to ban Flash because of its obsolescence but Apple's barbs will come around full-circle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Boffin

      RE: Here we go again

      > "Apple ... if they manage to move the web to open standards where

      > everyone wins, hooyah! "

      > The move to open standards has been going on for a long time, and

      > some of the current fuss is about Apple mis-representing this.

      True.

      ...but then no-one could possibly begin to claim that Flash is an open standard!

  32. h 6
    Dead Vulture

    Pining for ad views

    Reg, yeah, see title.

  33. Narg
    Happy

    Gee, William, read the Apple Zealots rantings much?

    Top of its game? You've got to be kidding. Who other than the "Apple is the diety" crowd would share your thoughts that The Register is losing its cool?

    Apple is losing at the game. They buck standards to a point that everyone loses. Apple doesn't care that anyone is upset, and customers be damned. Steve doesn't sleep anyway.

    We all know that most all iPad owners are in fact missing the Flash ability in using their devices ever day. And I'm sure even your Grannie would hate it if she couldn't visit all the web sites that she is used to visiting. She's probably learning that Apple's walled garden is a mean and disrespectful place of its customers.

    Apple's answer is a failure. A failure on the level of a global scale. Their stock's over value is going to tank very soon, and soon even Apple's investors will feel the sting of Steve's bad temper and bad business choices. The Apple zealots will have a feild day, and in the end they will eventually be eating crow. They'll have to learn that they can't say "I'm better than anyone who doesn't own Apple products."

  34. Adrian Esdaile
    Jobs Halo

    Best thing Steve Jobs ever wrote.

    Steve's anti-flash epistle is one of the best things he's ever written. AND I use Windows 7 and a PC, but I completely agree with Steve on the Flash-Is-Bad principle.

    I've been (somehow) running my work and home PCs sans-flash for about 8 months, as I had also noticed the plethora of malware that comes via flash,the crashes and lockups that are caused by flash. So, what do I miss? Gee, no FacePalmBook browser games, boo hoo. Almost every ad from my local newspaper won't load - much better than adblock, and works with any browser! Youtube fails, but it's easy to just grab the FLV and use a standalone player. So, I don't miss anything. My bank thankfully doesn't use flash at all - I notice some banks do for online banking, I wouldn't touch them with a 20ft CAT5 cable.

    so, the sooner Flash dies, the better. I wish Bill join in too - I'd love to see Windows 'phone home' crash stats for flash....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @Narg

      Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. Repeating false information and lies is really a silly game, so stop playing it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      @h 6

      Spot on!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      RE: Gee, William, read the Apple Zealots rantings much?

      ^^Title:

      If he does, he doesn't pay any attention, based on the article - did you read it?

      "They buck standards to a point that everyone loses."

      Like HTML5 you mean? They seem quite keen on that. It wasn't their browser that implemented it's own tags either, if you see where I'm coming from...

      "We all know that most all iPad owners are in fact missing the Flash ability in using their devices ever day."

      Well, I've never missed Flash on my iPhone... what makes you think people would on their iPads?

      "And I'm sure even your Grannie would hate it if she couldn't visit all the web sites that she is used to visiting."

      Which web sites have Apple prevented the iPad from visiting? None. There's no blacklist of sites. If the only link to a page is via Flash then you can't go there by clicking on the Flash...

      Granny is probably tech-savvy if she uses YouTube - which btw works just fine on the iPhone and iPad.

      "Apple's answer is a failure. A failure on the level of a global scale."

      What answer? I was unsure what the point of this rant was... except that you don't like Apple.

  35. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Astroturfing FTW !

    Let me see, CEO of major computer and gadget company throwing a tantrum, banning apps left and right without any other reason than he doesn't like them, and bad-mouthing other important companies while religiously ignoring any wrongdoings on his part.

    Throw in misrepresenting upcoming standards and he might as well be screaming and rolling on the floor in his playpen.

    Doesn't look cool to me.

    Not one bit.

  36. FailedTrolleyStacker
    Thumb Down

    Fanboi Doublespeak

    "Apple is at the top of its game, and if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins"

    How is creating an HTML 5 showcase that blocks all browsers other than Safari anything other than the CLOSED web???

    Mac fanboi rewriting history again I see. It was Firefox and a few high profile bloggers (Zeldman, Meyers, Holzschlag, Shea amongst others) that moved the web to open standards about 5 years ago.

  37. vandenbudenmayer
    FAIL

    Fail

    Jobs has a vision, whatever that vision might be, and the man says 'no flash on my device'. Intuitively I understand why. You perhaps don't. Fair enough, don't buy the man's products then. End of story. Go be happy with your HP sauce slate, or wait a few years more and maybe Microsoft will have something for you. Jobs has once said 'Real artists ship', and that's exactly what he'll be doing while you are waiting.

  38. RichyS
    Thumb Down

    Utter nonsense

    This article seems to be predicated on so many assumptions. Assumptions that are wrong.

    If Flash is so wonderful on mobile devices, then where are all the non-Apple devices running Flash (and not that uselessFlash Lite crap, either)? Adobe have only just got Flash working (sort of, if you ignore the agonising load times) on the very latest Android 2.2 OS. So, is this Jobs' fault. Has he somehow stopped Adobe developing for these devices?

    And where did you get the idea that developers are the most important people? They're not. Customers are. Developers will go where there's a market for their products. Okay, ther are a few Penguinistas who'll develop along idealogical lines. However, seeing most of the un-user centric crap they put out, it's no great loss.

    And regarding the open/closed debate. Jobs covered this off to. You can develop web apps using open web technologies. However, if you want (a) money or (b) to use some of the more 'specialist' APIs, then you write an App. From a customer perspective, I don't care whether the App Store is open or closed, I only care about what I can do with the apps I can download. So far, I've not seen anything on other platforms that I really want. Certainly not in the limited (and flakey) Android marketplace.

    This whole article is just nonsense.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      @Pascal

      Let me see, people read articles which are designed to get you to read them so they can sell more adverts, all describing someone none of them actually know. Now you read these articles and determine you know this man better than your own mother. Wow.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      @FailedTrolleyStacker

      Why is it Apple's responsibility to ensure every other browser (which support varying degrees of an unratified standard) works with a demo?

      As for open standards - read F-L-A-S-H real slowly and it might sink in.

      1. FailedTrolleyStacker
        Thumb Down

        Why block other browsers if they work?

        It's not. But a better showcase would have been to let your browser fail the showcase and then tell you to get Safari. Except of course not all other browsers would fail. Far easier just to block them all.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Other browsers

        No one expects Apple to ensure every other browser works. The problem isn't that they didn't ensure the demo works. The problem is that they actively blocked it.

        I realize it is fully withing their purview to do so, but it plays better with their openness a argument if they don't.

  39. Paul_Murphy

    Why Apple needs to be cool

    I don't know about anyone else that reads The Reg, but I would imagine that a large proportion if them are in the same boat as me in that when a family member who isn't 'tech-oriented' wants to buy a gizmo, or something to get a job done one of the first stops is an email or phone call to me to ask my opinion.

    And what will my opinion be? At any moment in time and for any particular intended purpose my response to a query will vary - but if I am feeling that a particular company does not deserve to be the recipient of my family-members money then my answer will reflect that.

    At the moment one of my questions I am seeking an answer to is - what happens if Apple gets too powerful? just as Microsoft dominated the desktop OS market and that let to a stagnant IE, PC manufacturers being forced to bundle Windows and a whole lot of similar practices - should I really recommend that people go and buy an Apple device?

    Once people are forced to buy their apps from Apple, since there might be no other source, is that really to everyones' benefit?

    I believe in open systems, not necessarily free, but ones that can be added to, changed and adapted to peoples own requirements - obviously people might screw their devices up, add dangerous things and not do things in the best way - but those mistakes will be their own and they will (hopefully) learn from those mistakes.

    Making mistakes is how the human race progresses, it's how we learn what not to do. When a company (in this case) decides what is best for everyone then, in the long term, it is not good news for everyone - just the one doing the deciding.

    Apple has lost it's cool as far as I am concerned, and it is showing the world what it would be like if it was in a monopoly position.

    Though they make great kit my advice at the moment to my friends and family when they ask will be to not bother with Apple and to look at (in the case of mobile phones) Android now or WinMo7 when it's available - with the hint that Android is the far better OS, not because of it smoothness or gui design, but simply because it is the current best choice for everyone in the long-run.

    ttfn

  40. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

    @WilliamLondon

    Nothing can be Cool to everyone.

    If Auntie Edith buys an IPhone then the next generation will instantly stop thinking it's cool.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Word of the week...

    Flashturbates.

    Does this make the Flash fanbois "Flashturbators"?

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Adobe _IS_ Lazy and Jobs is right

    With all due respect it has taken adobe longer to deliver a barely working player than some people to deliver a whole OS. 10 years after it has finally delivered some most basic accel and only for video, not for other apps and only on one of its supported platforms. We are somehow supposed to sing halelluia to this? Bugger this gently with a chainsaw. A piece of garbageware which fails to use the OS gui management on all platforms and redraws its entire canvas frame by frame even when playing video deserves all the flack it can get.

    Jobs is also right regarding performance. It is one of the slowest interpreted languages around. Perl, python, java are all significantly faster.

    Jobs is also right regarding flash being closed. If flash was a real open standard people could have implemented an alternative interpreter which would have been faster than the one Adobe uses. It is not that difficult to achieve this. In fact it would have been nearly impossible to have it slower. Adobe can still retain control over the platform by controlling the video/audio and DRM modules (as this is what really matters nowdays).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      RE: Adobe _IS_ Lazy and Jobs is right

      Here here. At last some sense.

    2. austin cheney
      FAIL

      Do some research before you start preaching to the cult choir...

      "Jobs is also right regarding performance. It is one of the slowest interpreted languages around. Perl, python, java are all significantly faster."

      Actually, JavaScript is considerably slower: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/

  43. Matthew Gaylard

    No way but down

    Apple - innovators? As I understand it, MacOS X is based on the BSD Unix interfaces - it's certainly looked familiar the one time I had to fix a booting problem on a mac laptop, and the couple of times I've peeked at my brother's Macs. The whole iPad thing is truly mystifying. Apple certainly weren't first out of the block in terms of the tablet format - but it seems large numbers of people will pay big bucks for the Apple consumer experience.

    But this is part of a bigger story - the number of "innovators" motivated by intellectual curiosity is significantly larger than the number of innovators motivated by a desire to make huge piles of money by developing proprietary products that lock out other independent innovators. I'm basically an optimist, despite everything, and in the long run I suspect that innovators rather than businessmen will determine the direction of technology in general - and IT in particular.

    In fact, the important thing that has happened is that Microsoft's stranglehold on the development community by virtue of it's desktop monopoly has weakened to the point that its point of leverage - the PC - is now starting to be undermined. Apple's attempts to replicate Microsoft's strategies are certainly enjoying success right now, but I strongly suspect that this is going to be a much shorter arc than that enjoyed by Microsoft. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now, and whether it's called Android, Chrome OS or Ubuntu the platform of the future will be open source.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      You were doing well until...

      This:

      "The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now, and whether it's called Android, Chrome OS or Ubuntu the platform of the future will be open source."

      How very evangelical...but while open source is a noble venture now, I'll remind you that most noble ventures always crumble into monopoly, petty corruption, protectionism and money grabbing.

      The platform of the future will be the one the end customers can actually use and maintain themselves, that utilitizes truly open standards for web, documents, drivers, protocols etc. Whether it's open source or not is irrelevant to them - most people just see their midi towers as "hard drives", remember, with absoluely no comprehension of what goes on therein.

      Anything needing a command line or technical dictionary is - and always will be - doomed to the technical minorities; so most open source has some way to go...

  44. Albert
    Paris Hilton

    Apple is where Sony was in the 80's

    Sony in the 80's was the brand to own. If you wanted to be associated with the best there is it had to be Sony. Then they thought they could rule the world and started to do their own thing with standards and now Sony still make good products but they have to fight it out with the other brands.

    Apple are in the same position right now. They can try to force their agenda and potentially get caught our or take into account the change in the market and respond accordingly.

    Let's all get back together in a few years and see what happens.

    Paris, because it's all vacuous anyway.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Flash != open

    "Jobs squandered it when he ignited a heated fight with Adobe Systems about Flash. [...] He risks damaging Apple in the eyes of the very people it needs most: developers serious about open technologies and programming for the web."

    Open technologies like Flash? Last I looked, Adobe makes the compilers and decides on the standards and there's nothing "open" about it*

    *except of course the contents of your hard-drive, if you haven't updated ;)

  46. Shakje
    Thumb Up

    Good article but lots of short punchy paragraphs

    Mr Spock.

    Take us to warp.

    speed please.

    And we.

    shall see.

    if we can save.

    some alien.

    beauties.

  47. Magnus_Pym
    Stop

    Add my vote to the lazy lobby

    Adobe have had years to move flash forward into the new millennium. The only version that runs at a barely acceptable rate is the 32bit Windows version, The same as it was back in the 90's. and it still thrashes the processor. Ever left a web page open with a flash add in it? I love the sound of cooling fans in the morning. I used to use SETI to torture test a PC but flash is just as good.

    If they haven't got it all together by now then they probably never will. Nothing to see here people just move on.

  48. Andy Watt
    Thumb Down

    Poor debating skills.

    "That ended in January 2010, when Wired reported that Jobs slammed Adobe's player for being buggy, and for its publisher's laziness — presumably for not being as inventive or creative as he."

    Presumably.

    It is actually possible to criticise someone and not be harping on about your own greatness you know. Speaking of laziness, this is lazy journalism. Then again, El Reg wouldn't be El Reg without white flecks at the corners of both Apple fans and "enraged open source loving geeks" as they click all over the website bringing in those lovely click numbers...

    shame on you Reg.

  49. smeddy
    Thumb Up

    Fantastic article

    No hyperbole, no hypocracy, no bashing for the sake of bashing. That was a really good read, regardless of which side of the fence you're on

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    Future Not Open

    Secret ACTA (Hollywood/Music industry) agreements and the NATO alliance will crush Open out of existence. The latest mantra is that nations that pimp FOSS are terrorists.

    Soon FOSS nations will have their skies crowded with drones that will rain hellfire down on their wedding celebrations and primary schools, guided by "gamers" sitting in a comfortable chair at Vandenberg AFB or some such.

    Mr. Jobs may be increasingly "cranky" as he has been acutely ill. In light of that, coupled with the fact that the world will continue to rotate despite Apple, we wish him peace and health whatever he enunciates.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Adobe

    If Adobe wants to take the fight back to Apple they could do worse than make a complaint about the iPad TV ads in Australia which specifically say the iPad is "ALL the worlds websites in the palm of your hand"

    I'd love to see Apple to get its just deserts for the blatant lies in their iPad adverts.

    1. Captain Underpants

      If it's lies in Apple ads you want, the UK can help!

      I've already submitted an ASA complaint about the UK iPad advert stating explicitly that iPad is "more books than you can read in a lifetime" without pointing out that:

      a) iBooks is only available in the US, and

      b) book content is obtained through the iBookstore and will be chargeable.

      1. JonHendry

        iBooks

        iBooks isn't the only way to read books on the iPad. If the Kindle app isn't available in the UK, Apple could just point out the the iPad web browser can access all the books on Gutenberg.

        Thanks for playing, but you lose.

  52. vincent himpe

    here's an idea

    Don't release HTML5.. Call the new version something else like HTML-V and deliberately change some core feature. Claim that HTML is a beta releas ethat i sno longer supported with the introduction of HTML-V.

    That'll leave them with an out-dated, unfunctional and unreleased 'standard'.

  53. sleepy

    This article is utter drivel

    What it says deliberately misses the point, and most of the comments are wrong too. It's Google that wants to be the new Microsoft, in control of everyone's platform. Apple wants a properly open universal web platform PLUS a separate closed platform for its own innovation. Google wants monopoly control, and is now officially "evil", because by entering the mobile market, they have ceded mobile advertising on competing platforms. Therefore those competing platforms must die.

    Adobe made those twisted claims about Apple not for itself, but as a favour to Google, presumably part of a deal for Google to do Adobe the HUGE favour of putting proprietary Flash into Google's so called "open" web platform. The other part is the putting of Google's so-called "open" (but actually patent encumbered, with implementors not indemnified by Google) codec into Flash, and the fast tracking of hardware acceleration for it on mobile devices by using Adobe's ARM acceleration work that's already 18 months late.

    Apple's HTML5 showcase checks for Safari so that when you visit, you WILL see the correct HTML5 behaviour. You can then make your own decision about HTML5. The showcase is not a test of browser conformance. Since most browsers don't conform as well as Safari, the showcase would otherwise give the impression that HTML5 is a pile of garbage, when in fact the user's browser is the problem.

    If Flash is so good, it'll do fine despite Apple's minority platform shutting it out. Then Apple will put it in.

    I have covered the other points before, so I'll leave it at that.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    Could we maybe put a cap

    a piece in Adobe and Apple and just be done with it? Both of them seem to be crapping all over our living rooms.

  55. noodle heimer

    Not a hater, not a fanboi

    I have not used a Mac in production for some years now. I recently bought, then gave away, an ipad after getting tired of the lack of internal filer. I do have MacOS installed on a couple of the systems I use regularly, so that I can answer questions about it when they come up.

    At the office and at home I use more and more linux - SuSE at work, and Ubuntu on the CULV laptop I replaced the ipad with.

    So, having heard the hoo-ha about Apple's site demo'ing HTML 5, I tried visiting.

    In Firefox, I'm told to go get Safari. Not available for my platform.

    In (webkit driven) Konqueror, I am not told to get Safari. The page just fails to work - the initial page loads, but all of the links just reload the page.

    Brilliant start for a demo of an open source technology.

  56. takuhii
    WTF?

    Apple?!

    This type of thing always annoys me. Apple are making a rod for their own backs here...

    Can anyone answer two questions for me?

    WHAT is the iPad for? I have used one, it appears to be an oversized iPhone that only lets me load what Apple wants me to load on to it. The price bracket is laughable for such a restricted piece of kit, where I can go and buy a laptop instead £400-750 pounds for a "tablet-pc" I can't customise or load software onto other than what the manufacturer ALLOWS on to their system.

    What the hell are apple playing at (I;m so annoyed they don't deserve a captial A!!)? £600 for the new iPhone??!!! Is it made from using parts constructed from grinding up endangered animals?! Does Steve Jobs personally deliver EACH AND EVERY ONE.

    apple are quickly becoming a joke in my eyes. Why is no one hitting the European Courts with Anti-Trust suits, or whatever it is Europeans keep taking Microsoft to court for...!!??

  57. JonHendry
    Jobs Halo

    I'm sorry Gavin, but you're a moron

    1. Apple wasn't blocking Flash from the iPhone for 3 years. Adobe's incompetence was.

    2. You seem to have misunderstood the point of the HTML 5 showcase. You're acting like the point was to promote Safari or something. Wrong. That's entirely beside the point. The point was to demonstrate what can be done without Flash, and get across that you don't need Flash to do video, or interactive graphics, etc.

    Why did they block other browsers? I don't know, maybe because they couldn't guarantee that other browsers would render the content correctly. They're anal like that.

    But it was FUCKING BRILLIANT because now people like you are wetting their pants and making the case, for Apple, that hey, other browsers can render the content just fine, thus demonstrating that the showcase wasn't a bunch of proprietary Apple technology, but can be displayed by any compliant browser, and didn't require some closed-source proprietary plug-in like Flash.

    So you're helping make Jobs' argument in favor of HTML5/CSS/JavaScript and against Flash for him. Ha!

    Nice own-goal there. The only person flashturbating is you.

  58. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge
    Stop

    Of course

    Apple's quite obvious real reason for not wanting flas on their devices is nothing to do with it being slow or bug ridden. It is all an issue of control, and greed. Consider the following facts:

    1) Apple controls the content of the App Store, thus they control what can and cannot be run on their devices.

    2) Flash is an 'enabling' technology where third parties can use it to develop applications.

    3) Flash applications would not need to be distributed through Apple's store.

    4) Third party developers could sell/give away Flash apps independently of the App store, thus preventing Apple from creaming off their cut of the profits.

    Am I the only one to see this, or is it so obvious that nobody else needs to say it?

    1. JonHendry

      Web apps don't go through the store either.

      "Am I the only one to see this, or is it so obvious that nobody else needs to say it?"

      The flaw in your argument is that Apple is perfectly happy to have you use web-based applications that aren't based on Flash. Those also are not distributed through Apple's store.

      Hell, the original application development model Apple supported for the iPhone was web apps. That was before the App Store. And Apple still supports that model. Apple's Dashcode development tool started as a tool for developing OS X widgets, but now can be used for building web apps.

      So, bzzt, you're mistaken.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    cool my ass!

    Jobs has NEVER been cool, he has always been a total ASSHOLE, low life, waste of skin.

    No I don't hate him, he's not worth the energy.

  60. Dick Pountain

    Ring any bells...

    Next Cube; Display Postscript; tingaling...

  61. cordwainer 1

    I don't have any particular axe to grind....

    nor am I here to comment on whether Jobs or Adobe, or no one, or everyone is right/wrong/insane/wombats.

    And the only application I have ever disliked so intensely I would have paid money to have it permanently wiped from the face of the Earth was...well, someone here may love it just as passionately, so let's say it's a discontinued database program and leave it at that (after all, everyone hates SOME database program).

    I offer only the following:

    Safari on my Mac has crashed on a regular basis practically since its inception....until, a month ago, I installed ClickToFlash.

    No, not an app for pantless raincoat wearers. It is a plug-in that blocks Flash content from loading, replacing it with a box labeled "Flash" and a small icon. Clicking the icon gives one an option to load Flash for that item only, or that entire site, plus a link to Preferences for other options.

    Since then, Safari has crashed/frozen not almost daily, as it had been, but once.

    The crash occurred after I had, in a browsing frenzy, opened 4 windows, each with at least 12 tabs, one with approx. 15...at which point I linked to a YouTube video, which got me interested in others on the same subject. 20 Flash videos later Safari froze, followed by a total system lockup, necessitating a restart.

    Summary: No Flash, no crashes.

    Rant level: No commentary, no opinions.

    Hoping: No harm, no foul....?

    Cheers,

    c

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