back to article TwitPic-nicking Mail nicked

If you’re going to nick TwitPics, it pays to read the small print first. That could be a salutary lesson for the Daily Mail, currently facing a bill of almost ten times the going rate after lifting a professional photographer’s pics from the web and then attempting to claim that as they were "in the public domain", they didn’t …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    The Daily Heil - bastion of law and order

    not

  2. LinkOfHyrule
    Joke

    HAHAHA

    Personally I blame situations like this on Asylum seekers, illegal immigrants, chavs, Nu Labour, the EU, the internet, Sony Playstation and "polictical correctness gone mad!"

    If it wasn't for all those things the Daily Fail would of had ever right to use those images for free.

  3. D@v3

    best of luck to her

    take the Daily (insert clever 'ail pun here) down a peg or two.

    Thievin swine.

  4. Squiggle

    Daily Fail ...

    ... Come on ... You can't come to expect the Daily Mail to have researched properly do you?

  5. Andy 115
    FAIL

    Daily Fail Strikes Again

    That is all

  6. The Unexpected Bill
    Coat

    Hummm....

    That'll be the meaning of the phrase "The Daily Fail"...

    Heh. I'm sure I won't be the first person to make /that/ joke. Thank you, and good day (or night, such as it may be).

  7. Devilhat
    FAIL

    Oh dear, DM...

    And we thought Mil Millington's "Things My Girlfriend and I Have Argued About" taught the newspaper world a lesson about ripping off online content.

  8. mittfh
    FAIL

    I always thought...

    ...it was the Daily Wail.

    Edited either by Chicken Licken or the proverbial sandwich board man proclaiming "The End of the World is Nigh!" (particularly if you're in their definition of "middle class" - i.e. earning >£40k)

    Then again, from recent news stands, it seems as though their arch rival (Express [1]) seems to be getting in on the act as well - they already appear to have started their version of the oncological ontology project...

    [1] Are there any satirical takes on that paper's name?

    1. sandman

      Re: I always thought

      Usually referred to as the Daily Excess - could be stretched to Daily Abcess I suppose.

      1. The BigYin

        I always call it...

        ...the Diana Excess (about every other day there's some crap about Di in it).

    2. Bitsucker
      Flame

      According to Lord Gnome...

      It was always referred to in Private Eye as the 'Sexpress'.

    3. John Robson Silver badge

      no title

      daily depress

  9. Mark Rendle
    Thumb Up

    They got previous, innit?

    You'd think the Mail might have learned their lesson after their interweb plagiarism escapades of 2001, involving El Reg and the venerable Mr Mil Millington (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/03/02/daily_mail_apologies_for_nicking/).

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Arrogance

    The sheer arrogance of claiming that the photos were in the public domain is.. well what you would expect.

    Surely a paper of the calibre of the Mail would know that /everything/ is copyright unless explicitly described, via a Creative Commons licence for example.

    Oh, right.

    Mind you, most of the red tops have always been like this. A company I once worked with used to have to have editions from all over the country posted to them by newsagents (at a huge cost...) to make sure they were paying for all the photographs published as the contribution accounts department usually only saw those in the London edition. Bill board posters were another common "oops... forgot we had to pay..." - usually they only managed to get paid for them if one of their photographers was about and actually /saw/ it.

    But best of luck, and I can't see how the Mail can back out of this one. A tough lesson learnt, until the next time.

    1. Oninoshiko
      Headmaster

      Creative Commons is also not Public Domain

      correction: anything under Creative Commons is copywritten also. it has to be put into the public domain to be in the public domain. the Creative Commons Foundatation may have some language that does this, it's not under creative commons per se, because if it is put into the public domain you are not licensing it. (except in countries like Japan which do not recognise the public domain, which may require an alternitive license stating you intened to permit all users to use it for any legal useage, without attribution (I think that would get around all moral rights, but am by no means an expert in japanese law))

  11. Burch

    Coming over here

    stealing our photographs. It's PC gone mad. Unless they used a Mac.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    At last

    Something good comes out of Twitter.

    Personally, I think they should fine the Daily Fail per issue sold. That will teach them that stealing other peoples content is wrong.

    I wonder what their future stance on hunting down Freetards will be like.... :-)

    1. Matt_V
      Happy

      online

      think the story said something about the online publication so do it on page views instead? F5 at the ready!

  13. Luther Blissett

    Another satyrical take?

    Essex girl version - Doily Mile

  14. Stone Fox
    FAIL

    not that we expect better from the daily fail

    but the sheer arrogance of replying that they weren't going to pay for the pictures is staggering!

    I hope she takes the little bastards to court and f**ks them for every penny she can get!

    btw, what's the el reg / daily mail thing going on at the moment?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Paying for photographs gives you cancer.

    DailymailFACT.

  16. John Lilburne

    The Mail should sue her

    Just as AP did when they nicked Daniel Morel's photos from TwitPic and he complained.

    http://www.dankennedy.net/tag/daniel-morel/

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Pick the bones out of that, cuntbubbles

    The Daily Fail steal copy and pictures as a matter of course, as well as being hateful rabble-rousing mean-spirit, racist, homophobic and xenophobic hate mongers. It would be a waste of good urine to help with with flames.

    Translation, this pleases me.

  18. BongoJoe
    FAIL

    Stunned

    I can't fathom how a major newspaper doesn't understand the basic principles of copyright.

    No excuse for it.

  19. Electric Panda
    Thumb Down

    I can see it now...

    "Scandal as British people are made to pay MORE for photographs"

    "... an investigation by the Daily Mail discovered that corrupt online photographers are charging MORE than the recommended rate for photographic licences ..."

    I can imagine the comments section on that one. It'll all be Labour's fault as well as the immigrants, no doubt.

  20. Jolyon Ralph
    FAIL

    Strange.

    I assumed if anyone were, they'd be the copyright nazis. quite literally...

  21. Connor
    FAIL

    Stolen images are the least of their problems...

    The Daily Mail has been awful to read for quite a while now, poor grammar, bad spelling, missing paragraphs or repeating paragraphs, photos with 'Write Caption here' left on them. It is lazy journalism, and if you ask me, it is because they are just employing a load of bloody foreigners, with poor English skills, to write for them because they are cheap.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    As any corporate lawyer says...

    its all the T's & C's

    1. Jim Morrow
      IT Angle

      you missed a bit

      Your suggested text is incomplete for a story in the Daily Heil.

      There's no mention of the impact of these licences will have on house prices. Or how they increase/decrease the risk of cancer. Or that it's all the fault of welfare scrounging asylum seekers and/or single mothers.

  23. Steven Jones

    Not unusual

    The Mail on Sunday pinched one of my photos off the (clearly copyrighted) Web site of a musician of my acquaintance in order to illustrate a scandal piece they printed on page 3. The quality wasn't great as it was a cut and past job from a website.

    I never did get round to sending them a bill. To add insult to injury they didn't provide a credit (but I bet they paid for the agency photo they also used).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1076641/Newsnights-Gavin-Esler-splits-wife-moves-raunchy-violinist-lover.html

  24. Sekundra
    FAIL

    Small Claims Court

    Expert opinions please - can El Reg and this unlucky photographer use this route and even, crosses fingers, send the Bailiffs round when the DM, hopefully, inevitably ignore the summons?

  25. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
    WTF?

    Sir

    So, by their logic, anything they put on their online website is public domain, therefore anyone can use it free of charge?

    Sweet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Bill them now then?

      They're still infringing. Send them a bill and see if they'll pay up.

      1. Joe 3
        WTF?

        Bill them!

        For God's sake, send them an invoice! They'll keep on treating the web as a free content goldmine if you let them get away with it! Not only that but why shouldn't you get paid? If you walked in to their offices and took a monitor they'd suddenly know all about the law I reckon.

  26. Digital Freedom
    FAIL

    Daily Mail having a bad month

    First the World Cup 2018 scandal then Gary Lineker resigns from his column in disgust, now the stolen photographs... And this paper tells us about morals? helllllllo?

    Good luck if she gets some money.

    I doubt they'll pay up, but here's their chance to "put it right"...

  27. Ian Ferguson
    FAIL

    Re: Sir

    I would nick content off the Daily Mail's site, if there was anything worth nicking.

    I blame elf'n'safety laws myself (Such a hilarious pun! Gets me every time)

  28. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Keep us updated...

    Can you (or Emily) keep us updated on how this one plays out El Reg?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    title

    the daily mail are notorious for stealing images and even entire articles. here's another one from earlier in the year: http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/01/plagiarism-at-daily-mail.html

    they are shameless xenophobic, morons and the very existence of the paper makes me ashamed to be human every day. I wish anyone sueing them the very best of luck.

  30. DI_Wyman
    Pint

    Circulation?

    She shouldn't really worry! The Daily Wails circulation used to be so bad that to 'boost' the numbers you could get a free copy at any Little Chef! And now they don't bother stocking it as it was putting off their customers!

  31. ZenCoder
    Joke

    This photographer clearly mistaken

    Copyright laws exist to protect the rights of huge companies from individuals, not the other way around.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Copyright is apparently a very difficult concept to grasp

    I've had to deal with similar issues in the past. For me it's not about the money, but about the basic decency of asking if you're allowed to use my photos. And it appears that's already too much to ask.

    http://floor-revamp.fr/

    And apparently she's a bit miffed that I contacted her webhost in order to complain about copyright infringement. Who else should I have contacted? Her? She has already demonstrated to be completely clueless about the whole copyright thing. And besides, I've stopped being nice about this sort of thing. I certainly see no reason not to as I regularly deal with people who are capable of doing the right thing.

    I for one wish Emily James the best with her lawsuit. Harsh actions sadly seem to be the only way to get it through people's thick skulls that because something's on the internet doesn't mean it's free or yours to (ab)use.

  33. fordie
    Unhappy

    and another one

    My mate Clive has also fallen foul of the photo snaffling hacks of the Fail: http://cliveflint.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/daily-mail-uses-my-photo-without-permission/

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge
      FAIL

      wow!

      To steal a photo is one thing. To HOTLINK a photo is even worse. In fact, they should have replaced said hotlinked photo with goatse or 2girls1cup etc. "That'll learn em"

  34. Barry O'Connell
    Thumb Up

    Keep Us Informed

    I would love to see the outcome of this one (and the others mentioned in footnotes and comments).

  35. the mark...
    Happy

    good luck to the photographer

    looks like he's already making some headway there anyway.

    I discovered someone using one of my images without permission, they wouldn't pay for it or remove it when asked. Turns out it was automated blagging, they hit a search term, scrape the top ten or so thumbnail images off Bing, wrap a bit of advertising around and hey presto! instant blagomatic web pages.

    mashups for the light fingered ... technology is a great enabler

  36. heyrick Silver badge

    The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

    1. She should sue their asses off, like £40 for the use of the photo, £1000 for taking it without consent, and £198,960 for thinking they could get away with it. In my opinion, their later response has moved from simple licence misunderstanding/f*ckwitism to outright blatant copyright theft. (after all, how much in the course of a day of the Fail is a grand? if they coughed up and added an extra few hundred for the condition of silence, nobody would be any the wiser...) Maybe if there's a lawyer willing to do a nice profile pro bono they could look for everybody who has a grievance with the Fail as, well, come on. Copyright is copyright, theft is theft. We have this girl's picture and an El Reg reader... one more an the Fail loses its publication licence. Oh, what, it's good enough for *us* freetards but not good enough for corporate freetardery? Like I said, copyright is copyright and theft is theft.

    2. She should accept the £40 offered, on the understanding that the Daily Mail is explicity saying if something is posted on-line, then it is in the public domain and can be used as and when for whatever purpose without bothering to provide credit or compensation. Like, say, the ENTIRE content of the Fail website (not that I'd want to copy any of it, I only go there to read Littlejohn for light entertainment value). As our sources of free info are a pictures site and the Fail's site, it would appear we could logically extrapolate this to apply to *all* on-line content. I wait with bated breath to see what a certain Mr. Murdoch will throw across his office... A phone? (been done) A chair? (been done)

  37. LawLessLessLaw
    Boffin

    Strike One

    Two more and they're banned from using the internet.

    That's the kind of police state I could get behind.

  38. JohnG

    Modus operandi for the Daily Fail?

    There was the saga with :

    http://www.mil-millington.com/

    ...detailed here:

    http://thingsmygirlfriendandihavearguedabout.com/mil_support/

    So, they obviously have not changed their ways.

  39. Anthony 13
    Flame

    Totally agree with the general vibe from the commentards here ...

    ... but my question is are these all the same commentards who also comment bitterly about not being able to thieve - I mean torrent - movies and music with impunity? If not, where are they ... surely they should be arguing how this should be fine fine fine?

    1. Shakje
      Happy

      Most of this type (including me)

      probably think that artists get a crap deal out of the recording industry, and would do better if the system properly revolved around gigs, and not on the selling of music or TV in rubbish ways. Put it this way, I'm a big Lost fan, even when it had its troubles. I got up to watch the final episode on Monday morning at 5am, adverts and all on Sky1, I'm going to probably download it to watch it in the interim (mostly because I don't have an HD TV) and I plan on buying the full boxset when it comes out. I don't think it's great to pirate stuff, and to be completely honest when I did pirate things willynilly it was when I was a student, didn't really think as much about consequences, and didn't have as much cash to spend on stuff. Now I'll generally buy stuff and only very occasionally pirate, mostly for TV shows that I've missed for whatever reason, or for difficult to find music.

      The difference with photography is that there isn't another way to sell the content. It's not like being able to gig, or to show repeats, or to sell a DVD, your only real way to sell this sort of content is by selling it to newspapers. I think that the other big difference is that the Mail is profiting from theft. I don't, for instance, agree with pirated DVDs, selling something that isn't yours clearly is a lost sale because someone has bought something that could have been sold somewhere else. If I'm watching a TV show that I missed at the weekend, or listening to something I couldn't find anywhere else, I would equate it to watching a rerun when I've got time, or listening to the radio. I'd just like to highlight that I will buy things that I find enjoyable. For instance, a few years ago I downloaded Silent Hunter III and thoroughly enjoyed it, when it was available on Steam I bought it, not because of anything it allowed me to do, purely because I liked the game and wanted to credit the developers. Go figure..

  40. YumDogfood

    Brute force protection

    Time to stamp "FOR SALE" in big black letters in the middle of the image. Maybe some alpha channel tweaks so you can see the underlying portions of the image - but not so much that it can be shopped' out . People who pay get an image with some stenography applied for asserting copyright. Anything else is asking to be the first port of call for the unscrupulous.

    Anyone know if there is a package that can apply "security paper" style processing to an image? I would love to see the cack hit the fan as the presses rolled...

  41. the mark...

    for a laugh

    ..here's what the guys using my image said when I asked them to remove it :

    ----

    We pull our photos from Google images. If you do not want to have your photos indexed by Google, please use the link below to remove yourself from the indexing.

    http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35308

    ---

    you can't make it up ....

  42. tshannon

    I got £75 for each of 4 images

    I had the same conversation with that Elliot Wagland after they stole some images off my flickr stream. He insisted they were somehow free because they were online, as did the pleb at The Sun who also printed the same photos. They both eventually paid up £75 per image after threats of legal action, The Sun in fact sent a second cheque for another £300 by mistake!

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm a title ... admire me...

    has and always will be the daily rant around here...

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