back to article Judge de-ASBOes yoof's low-slung kecks

An 18-year-old Bedford yoof has secured what appears to be a landmark legal victory for those who prefer their trousers at half-mast, the Times reports. Ellis Drummond was facing an Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) "prohibiting him from using threatening behaviour, begging or entering the grounds of Bedford College", …

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  1. Dan 10
    Happy

    Alex Deane is right

    He looks like he's dropped a turd in his pants.

  2. Alex McDonald 1
    Paris Hilton

    Cool strides

    At least he'll not be able to run off if he breeches (pun intended) the ASBO.

    Paris, coz she doesn't bother dressing the bottom half at all.

  3. Sooty

    maybe i'm old fashioned

    but seriously, an ASBO for assault, possession of Class B drugs and theft?

    It would be almost funny if you couldn't go to prison for not paying your TV licence.

  4. nichomach
    Thumb Up

    Thank goodness...

    ...for sensible people like Deane - and Leigh-Smith. Do we really have nothing better to do with our courts than issue ASBOs for bad fashion?

  5. Just Thinking

    Underwear?

    In the linked article he appears to be wearing a pair of football shorts under his trousers anyway (ie if he took his trousers of altogether, his attire would be perfectly acceptable in public). Whats the problem (apart from looking like an idiot).

    Hoods are a difficult one. I often have my hood up if it is cold/raining, but I can also see that a group of hoodies with their faces covered for no legitimate reason could be intimidating. Difficult to legislate on that.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    In an unlikely piece of logical thinking...

    'The order also sought to prevent Drummond “wearing trousers so low beneath the waistline that members of the public are able to see his underwear”'

    Not that he looks capable of it in the picture, but by applying a bit of convoluted logic, couldn't you argue thats a legal order to stop wearing underwear?

    Mine's the one with the arse cut out.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Intimidating?

      There are some folks who find black people in general intimidating. Should we want to legislate for that, too?

      1. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Intimidating?

        Are you seriously comparing the colour of a person's skin, which they have no choice about (famous dead pop starts aside), to hanging around on a street corner with a hood on, looking shifty?

        The whole question of whether the latter should be legislated against aside, well, the best word I can think of to describe your argument is 'meh'.

      2. Stratman
        FAIL

        title

        You can't choose to be black.

        You can choose not to obscure your face in public.

        1. A J Stiles
          WTF?

          Sci-fi question

          So you're saying that when somebody invents a pill, aerosol spray, booth into which you step or some other device that temporarily changes the colour of your skin, it will be OK to impose a colour bar?

          1. Trevor Pott o_O Gold badge

            @A J Stiles.

            Yes. Well, a qualified yes. For the first while after this becomes easy and thus common, the various tracking systems will have issues with people who are totally non-standard in colour. How will the facial recognition systems cope with someone who is painted like a zebra? Or bright orange?

            As far as I know there are already jurisdictions that don't allow you to wear highly IR-reflective body or face paints. For that matter, people "dressed up" in coloured paints such that they have non-standard colours for their skin are regularly barred from certain establishments.

            Perhaps the day will indeed come where federal legislation is considered in some western country that "you must walk around in the skin colour you were born to."

            Do I personally think these rules are good, right, just and moral? No. Then again, I don't agree with tracking everyone all the time either.

          2. Lionel Baden
            Thumb Up

            Yes

            wait what ...

            *dont feed the troll

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Tell me about it...

      Young man I know - respectable, never in trouble and a hard worker. Had too much to drink one evening, and sensibly decided to walk his motorcycle home rather than ride it. Police followed him for 3 miles and then - smirking - arrested him for being 'drunk in charge'. He lost his licence, and because of that his career. Predictably, he gave up making any effort, and has been in trouble ever since. Nominally guilty I know - but surely not deserving of a punishment out of Les Miserables.

      As opposed to another local chap - mindless, vicious thug in his 30s with a string of theft and violent convictions stretching back to his pre-teens. Never worked - never going to. Kicked a man unconscious, then assaulted two other people and the police who arrested him. Had to be strait-jacketed to be controlled. Given bail the next day, for heaven's sake! During the bail period, he assaulted 5 more people including me and my wife when we objected to him vandalising our car. The result? Six months community service. His original victim took longer than that to recover.

      A bigger laugh - I narrowly escaped trouble because (retired and disabled) I had the audacity to use my walking stick to defend myself !!!

      The whole system is a sad, sick, joke.

      1. Lionel Baden

        driving toy car

        bloke got his license taken away for driving a toy car on the pavement when drunk !!!

        police pulled him over and arrested him

  7. John Lilburne Silver badge

    One might add

    That photos of young teen males wearing low ridding trousers are much sort after by perverts.

    http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=saggers

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Coffee/keyboard

    Trousers

    I looked at the pic.

    He does indeed look like a right twat.

    I think the funniest thing that could happen is if he had to try to run for the bus...

  9. George Nacht
    Troll

    Well... Did they mentioned...

    ...the usual condition of his underwear? Might be quite relevant, when showing it off in public.

    Maybe not in the eyes of the law.

    Just saying.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Undies

    I'm obviously getting very old, but I "don't get it" - the trousers half-way-down-your-legs thing. It looks bloody stupid for a start. And how do you stop them falling all the way down? Or run for a bus? In my day, of course, you would paint your hair pink, have studs in your head and wear a tatty leather jacket. That all seems perfectly reasonable - at least we didn't look like we'd shat ourselves!

    1. John Lilburne Silver badge

      gangsta

      It is a development of gangsta rap style. Prisoners in US jails are given ill fitting clothes and no belt. Hence the trouser half way down your legs. Makes it easier for them to be anally raped too.

  11. Fractured Cell

    Will someone...

    ...Please explain to this poor lad how a belt works?

  12. Cameron Colley

    I'm confused by this fasion.

    I've always been lead to believe that it started with prisoners in the US advertising their availability and predilection for bending down in the showers?

  13. Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
    Grenade

    Public indecency?

    I watched Harry Brown last night. If only grenades were legal.

  14. Lee Dowling Silver badge
    FAIL

    Origins

    I don't know how true it is, but I've been told that the origin was from the US prison system where things like belts are confiscated and "not being part of the crowd" was dangerous. Thus all youths eventually copied the behaviour, thinking it a social necessity.

    I love to explain this to the kids I work with... why are you wearing your trousers like a pillock? Because you are emulating someone stupid enough to get caught and who can't be trusted not to hang himself in his cell if you give him a leather belt. It makes them think twice.

  15. Rob Crawford
    Alien

    Not so much stupid as ........!

    Dosn't look so much stupid as disabled

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a twit

    I know that the yoof of today will say that we are not kool and stuff. but WTF???

    I saw this young women at the train station recently. Her trousers were so low the croutch was at her knees. She had to wear a very long top to hide her g-string. And yes I know it was a g-string because I saw it when the wind moved her top. the waist line was at least 3/4 downher arse FFS.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    I had the misfortune of spending 12 years of my childhood in Bedford

    I got away as soon as I could. Need I say more?

  18. Uk_Gadget
    Stop

    Class 1 Idiot

    I thought the style was for the trousers to be allowed to uncover half of the bumcheecks, not halfway down the thighs.... Grade A Plonker.

    No one complains when the girls wear them like this though......

  19. buxtonmarauder

    Obviously..

    ..the judge is not a member of this FB group..

    http://bit.ly/9wUcf5

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Doesn't he look stupid

    He is the joke

    1. zebthecat

      Wedgie!!

      that is all

    2. Brian Morrison

      Bedford Magistrates Court....

      ....is an excellent place to go if you want to do some people watching. There are few layers of society that don't appear in there and it's quite fascinating if you have some time on your hands.

      A friend of mine used to run the tea and cake stall in the reception area, the stories she could tell....

    3. Lionel Baden
      Coat

      AHA!!!!

      I knew there was an upside to it somewhere !!!!!

      *ill have the dirty old coat please

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Yep...

    Compete Tool.

    Do you think the Catholic Church would be interested in him and his garment styling?

  22. French Tickler
    Megaphone

    Trend Origins - Shocker!

    I wonder if he would be so keen to wear his arse revealers all the time if he knew the true origin of the 'trend'.

    In the States, the practice of wearing the trousers below the underwear line was started in the California prisons during the 1970's by certain inmates wishing to advertise their 'sexual availability' to any interested parties.

    This has spread all over the world and it is highly doubtful that the scrotoids in Britain and the rest of the world or for that matter, actually know HOW this practice began, but it is nevertheless true.

    I am sure that if you ask nicely and maybe give them a wink, any older inmate that is or has been incarcerated in California will attest to this.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    idiots

    now if we could just pay some attention to the idiots, on generous public pay, that sought the ASBO for dressing badly, maybe the country would get somewhere

    1. Daniel Wilkie

      Um...

      Clearly missing the rest of the bits about the ASBO - you know the Assault, theft etc...

      Of course I'm not entirely sure why they were to be dealt with via an ASBO rather than a more serious penalty, but hey I'm not a magistrate.

      It's not like his only crime was looking like a Twat though

  24. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    OK,

    OK, so he looks stupid, but who the hell runs for a bus? What kind of an argument is that?

    A kid wearing misguided fashions may look stupid, but a middle-aged computer programmer running for a bus looks like a total loser. Wait for the next one, and get out of bed 5 minutes earlier tomorrow.

    1. Lionel Baden
      Coffee/keyboard

      BWWAAAHAAA

      I Demand a new keyboard !!!

  25. Blubster
    Happy

    You can judge for yourselves ....

    ....just how much of an idiot Drummond resembles right here.

    He resembles a right arsehole . How can the bastard walk without falling on his face is what I'd like to know.

    1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: You can judge for yourselves ....

      It's a controversial position you're all taking on this. I have to admire it.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
        Joke

        Sir

        So, left arseholes look different somehow?

        1. TeeCee Gold badge
          Joke

          Re: Sir

          Yup, they look like this:

          http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/cabinetlineupPA_468x192.jpg

  26. Elmer Phud Silver badge

    Less moans - more equality?

    Come on folks - how about either banning girls who also show bum crack or just stop grumbling.

    What they look like doesn't really matter - unless you were all dressed up as Little Lord Fauntleroy and are voting for the grown-up version tomorrow.

    Most of us will have looked stupid or just plain odd to others when we were young.

    Old man's trousers should also be banned, along with fat bastards who wear string vests and gold chains. ASBO for anyone with a small yappy dog in a bag, anyone driving a Toyota Pious and those who 'ironically' use 'LOL'.

    1. John Lilburne Silver badge

      Arse cracks are not nice

      Male or female it doesn't matter. Walking through the tables in a coffee shop or high street fast food outlet can be quite off putting as you negotiate the builder's cleavages.

    2. Lionel Baden
      Flame

      i agree

      but it did make me LOL

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    trousers at half-mast.

    All he needs a good belt.

    1. Subban

      Agreed..

      "he needs a right belt"

      In both meanings of the word.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    He Can't Beat the Original

    http://www.wildaboutmovies.com/images_2/MarkWahlbergAlmostNaked.jpg

    ...mine's the hoodie...

  29. Carsten Holmskov

    Legislation impossible

    As the judge so rightly says, judging against this would be a breach of the Human Rights Act, not to mention Freedom of Expression.

    That said though, each generation have their own set of "Twat-a-like's" and while they do seem to grow progressively worse, at least it has one major advantage.

    It makes it easier to identify the idiots.

    Say you are a Employer, if I see a guy like that coming in for a job interview, the guy could be Einstein Reborn and I would rather hire the cockroaches that live in his shoes than him.

    While some of you seem to identify it as a "Hey im a wanna-be-gay-prison-dude", I identify it more as a signal of "Hey-im-a-guy-with-no-future" type, you know the sort, those that will be serving me fries at MacD when he is 40 or washing my car.

    Let people express themselves as they wish with their clothing and looks, as long as you don't go over the limit and start running around with your 3'rd leg in the open

  30. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    But ...

    While I'd love to join the "what the good lord does he look like, in my day ... " etc etc.

    It should be remember that an asbo is a good way of criminalizing legal behaviour.

    i.e.

    Wearing trouser down by your knees - not illegal

    wearing trousers down by your knees in contravention of an asbo - punishable by prison

    Why I like to point and laugh at "da yoot" as much as the next middle aged IT worker, the idea that some clown can make almost anything an offence that can get you locked up is not a good thing. Not really funny. Quite scary in fact.

    1. PsychicMonkey
      Big Brother

      tottally agree

      there is no law that says you can't dress like a twat, yet they try it on again.

    2. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Mmm

      But that's pretty much what the judge said, too. He *didn't* allow that part, only the part that would cause problems (him being about that area, so no worse than restraining orders that have existed for decades, except this is a sort of restraining order to protect a community rather than an individual).

      ASBO's are quite possibly mis-used on occasion but anyone that gets an ASBO will also argue until they're blue in the face and used every court in the land to get it struck off. You can no more break the law than before - it's just that people *think* you can. When UK and EU law overlap, EU law takes precedence. It's when the courts start interpreting things differently that you have to *really* worry.

  31. Seamaster
    Jobs Halo

    These Rod Hull & Emo kids need to be told...

    ... trousers at half-mast is a look that works for NO ONE. Except, possibly, Norman Wisdom.

  32. ilikejam

    Red Dwarf - Justice World

    He's only guilty of being Ellis Drummond. That is his crime. It is also his punishment.

    1. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Red Dwarf

      A man so stupid that he even objects to his own defence?

    2. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge

      What a smeeeeee....

      ....heeeeeeeee

  33. Daniel Wilkie
    Flame

    *sigh*

    Reg Commentards - Forming-a-frothy-response-to-half-the-story-matters

    Seriously, the guy wasn't JUST in front of the beak for wearing his trousers low, go back and read the story - plenty of more serious crimes too (though I'm not sure why they were being dealth with via just an asbo).

    Honestly, you lot sound like the people they ask for comment when a local drug dealer or similar gets stabbed for ripping off the next person up the chain - "Oh he was such a nice lad" "Yeah he'd never hurt anyone" "Why did it happen to him" "I blame the government"

    You make me sick in my mouth, and not in a good 2 Girls - 1 Cup kind of way!

    1. Uk_Gadget
      Flame

      Re: *Sigh*

      Do you not know this D Wilie, the main point though was his trousers or the story would not have made it to the press...

      He is a nice lad though

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    It's kind of funny...

    ...how Reg readers will rail vehemently at the restriction of their own freedoms, but when it comes to someone else, they're fine with it as long as they disagree with the freedom concerned.

    You can't pick and choose, guys. If you're opposed to the nanny state telling you what you can do, you've got to defend those you disagree with as well as those you agree with - because eventually, someone's going to disagree with -you-.

    1. Liam Johnson
      WTF?

      WTF

      What are you talking about?

      There was not one single comment complaining that he should be ASBO'd for wearing silly trousers. Nobody wants to restrict his freedom the dress fashionably. Everybody seems fine that the Judge let him off on that point, there are simply commenting that the fashion looks stupid.

      You are free to have your opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't laugh at you for totally missing the point.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Er

      No-one here has any desire to curtail his sartorial choices. I find it quite annoying that a court would try to ban him, and I'm actually glad they were overruled.

      He can wear what he wants, as long as

      1) He doesn't expose his harrbles (actually, personally, I don't care about that either, but I'm thinking of my more strait-laced friends and relatives)

      2) I don't end up paying for his frostbite or sunburn/heatstroke

      3) He doesn't object to people laughing at him for looking like a total twat.

      For what it's worth, I live in Rushden, and I'm pretty sure I've seen him a couple of times. Or someone very similar. And I think this is possibly another use for the word "TwatDangle".

  35. Graham Marsden
    Coat

    What about "Whale Tail"?

    Is someone now going to try to pass ASBOs on all those young ladies who wear short tops and then pull their thong up so it's visible above the waistband of their skirts???

    1. French Tickler
      Coat

      Whale tail.....

      Lets hope not, unless of course the tail in question has a bulk not dissimilar to that of a whale......

      Mine is the short coat so you can see my thong

    2. French Tickler
      Coat

      mmmmm tail

      Lets hope not, unless of course the tail in question is not dissimilar in size to that of a whale.

      Mine is the short coat so you can see my thong.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: Whale Tail

      Probably only if she is over 25% BMI...

  36. Mike Moyle Silver badge
    Coat

    I don't see the problem.

    Clearly, he's in some sort of plumber's apprenticeship program (Once he becomes a Master, he's allowed to dispense with the underwear and go the full "plumber's-crack" style.)

  37. A J Stiles
    Coat

    Interesting stuff -- and a parallel.

    I can quite believe about the "trend" of exposed underwear having started in prisons where clothes fit badly and belts were banned.

    About 12 years ago, in the town where I live, a bunch of eco-warriors (naq V jnf bar bs gurz) camped in a public park to prevent it from being turned into a road junction. Some of the local kids took to wearing half-laced army boots in the street, thinking it was a new fashion trend.

    What they did not know, and they did not know because they did not bother to ask, was that camp sites tend to be quite muddy places. To avoid tracking dirt into tents, vehicles &c., one removes ones shoes immediately on entering -- that is just etiquette. For brief excursions -- calls of nature, visits to other tents &c. -- which will require imminent de-booting, one does not bother to pull the laces taut, let alone tie them. It is therefore common to see people wearing half-laced boots *around the site*. But for longer walks, one gets shod properly! (Or gets blisters.)

    Mine's the ex-German Army one.

  38. kain preacher Silver badge

    John Lilburne

    Prisoners in US jails are given ill fitting clothes and no belt. Hence the trouser half way down your legs. Makes it easier for them to be anally raped too.

    Nice try but complete wrong. US prisoners are given belts unless they are under suicide watch.

    The pants hanging down did come from prisons , but it meant you were advertising . Its like dropping the soap in the shower and bending over for a long time .

    1. Ruana

      Doubt it

      According to Snopes, you've got it precisely the wrong way around. It's about ill-fitting prison clothes, not sex.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Proper punishment

    “The proper punishment for the comically low-riding trousers favoured by some people is that we all think they look like idiots.”

    There, fixed it:

    “The proper punishment for the comically low-riding trousers favoured by some people is an atomic wedgie."

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No getting away from the fact, methinks...

    ...that said yoof appears to be pretty much clinically brain dead.

    FFS... he'll have the vote tomorrow...

  41. kain preacher Silver badge

    @Ruana

    Well you have your source and I have mine. I chose to believe people who work in the correction system over snopes .

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