back to article Apple to 'vigorously' fight Nokia patent pout

Apple will "vigorously" defend itself against Nokia's patent infringement suit, according to Cupertino's SEC 10-K annual-report filing (PDF) issued Tuesday. Last Thursday, Nokia filed suit against Apple in the Delaware US District Court, alleging infringement of 10 US patents. In its SEC filing, Apple - aka "The Company" - …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Go go Nokia!

    Nail these swine!

    Weren't they happy to scupper parts of HTML 5 (codecs) over IP issues?

    In the 20th century, the duty fell to Microsoft to keep this little company in check. In the 21st, the responsibility falls to Nokia.

  2. Lance 3
    WTF?

    Knowingly

    "Company’s products and business methods may unknowingly infringe the patents or other intellectual property rights of third parties."

    How is it unknowingly when an offer was made for them to license the technology? Once that is done, they are well aware and it is now knowingly patent infringement. Chances are, they have done this for the past year or two.

  3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  4. Paul 128
    WTF?

    Surely most of this stuff is down at the component level?

    Do Apple actually make the underlying electronics (i.e. fab the chips) for the iPhone, or do they buy them in from component manufacturers? I was under the impression that most of the bits which make a modern mobile phone are bought in from other companies which physically fabricate e.g. a GSM radio module, or a LCD including its backlight. Apple just did the overall product design and integration. Surely, then, the people Nokia should be chasing aren't Apple, but the companies who supply Apple with the infringing parts? Of course it's much easier to go after a big, profitable high-profile target when patent trolling than dealing with myriad smaller companies the public has never heard of...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @No argument tbh

    Are you a Nokia shill?

    If "all other cell phone manufacturers recognise the patents", that just means that they decided that the cost of litigating, plus the risk of losing and having to pay huge damages, was greater than the cost of licensing. Or they had a big enough pile of their own patents that they could enter into a cross-licensing deal. It absolutely does not mean that Nokia is "supported by the rest of the cell phone industry". (And if they were, that would be an illegal cartel).

    (Oh and a HINT for Nokia: The reason Apple poses a threat is because they designed a good product for end-users, rather than designing what the networks asked for or even what the users asked for. Users never know what they really want).

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC 28/10/9 22:21 GMT

    "Weren't they happy to scupper parts of HTML 5 (codecs) over IP issues?" Erm, no. They are on record as being concerned about potential "submarine patents" that apply to the OGG Theora CODEC, as well as it's unfinished state ad lack of quality. Don't let a small detail like the facts get in the way of your rhetoric though.

    "In the 20th century, the duty fell to Microsoft to keep this little company in check. In the 21st, the responsibility falls to Nokia." Get over yourself will you! Way to come across as level headed. If you can't beat them through superior technology, sue the shit out of them...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Ac@02

    Wrote.

    The reason Apple poses a threat is because they designed a good product for end-users, rather than designing what the networks asked for or even what the users asked for. Users never know what they really want).

    Ah so the end users asked for no multi tasking andno copy paste or removeable battery.

    AC you are just another whiny Mac fanboy. Go away and leave technical matters to adults.

  8. gjw
    Jobs Horns

    Uhm

    "..it is possible that certain components of the Company’s products and business methods may unknowingly infringe the patents or other intellectual property rights of third parties."

    The silly buggers seem to be just trying to escape the 'knowingly' part.

    Evull Steve because he'd claim not tobe, not knowingly.

  9. Peter 39
    Alert

    Nokia has such a strong case supported ... by the rest of the cell phone industry

    How about some facts supporting this claim?

    Evidence is welcome. Shills - please take the door on the right ...

  10. Steve Evans

    @Peter 39

    I believe the "support" referred to is the fact that pretty much every other mobile manufacturer has licensed these patents, in the same way as it was offered to Apple.

    Apple opted to not license.

    I would have to say that given all the others have paid, Nokia must have a strong hand.

    If Apple has it's way I foresee many lawyers will be kept in many BMWs for many many years.

  11. Wrenchy
    Linux

    @ Simon Banyard

    "Way to come across as level headed. If you can't beat them through superior technology, sue the shit out of them..."

    Geez, sounds like something straight out of the Apple playbook.

    Don't kid yourself. Apple products are good but they're not perfect. If Apple is found guilty, it should shut up and pay up.

    It makes me shudder to think, what if Apple was the Microsoft of today. What kind of bullshit would we have to put up with from Cupertino?? Ok, the "User Experience" would be better but at what cost - monetarily and freedom wise? Apple would have us all by the short and curly's. Choice would be non-existent. Must buy Apple peripheral to work with our shiny Apple machines and paying through the nose for it.

    That little megalomaniac Hitler Jobs would have ultimate say in what we can do and what we can run on our machines. We would have to buy all our programs from Apple through the sorry and broken iTunes or some app store and if Apple deems a program that we bought is inappropriate, with a few keystrokes, Apple with swiftly delete the program from our computers. And if anyone dared to make another computer operating system or hardware or peripheral, Apple will thunder down on them a fury of lawsuits because it's remotely resembles the IP of something they made in the past. Now this is a vision of hell if there was one.

    I can honestly see this happen with Apple if they were in the drivers seat. THANK GOD THEY'RE NOT and NEVER WILL BE.

    Please excuse me while I run off to the store to buy my shiny new copy of Windows 7 ULTIMATE to dual boot with Ubuntu 9.10 which releases in a few hours. Cheers!

  12. Dazed and Confused

    Must come as a shock to Apple's legal team

    They are usually too busy suing everyone in site for using the word apple to ever expect someone would try and sue them.

  13. kosmos
    Stop

    I love the smell of Lawyers in the morning.....

    It would hae been much more apt for nokia to compete against apple with a viable product that had neither the dimensional aesthetic or aerodynamic qualities of a brick. Instead of researching elegant design they release the N97 one of the latest in a long line of bricks that on one hand may be as functional as an iPhone, while on the other somewhat broken and tendonitis afflicted hand; tends to leave a crater when thrown at solid objects such as walls.

    It seems only too easy to pull out the Imaginary Property arguement and bash the competition into submission rather than actually compete. Once more IP Law comes to the rescue of the monopolistic practice (not to mention providing additional lining to the already well-endowed pockets of the patent lawyers) and the downfall of competition.

    Make phones, not war..

  14. John Carter 1
    FAIL

    re: Dave 14

    My girlfriend loves the iphone and she wouldn't know what multi-tasking was, never needs copy-paste and generally would replace her phone before buying a new battery.

    So no, real people don't care about those supposed killer features.

    The only people who do care about that, are the 1% of the population who hang around tech sites instead.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is it Apple that are infringing?

    Some of those patents are for parts of the wireless standards. Isn't the wireless module made by Seimans so already covered by license?

  16. James 30

    Prior art?

    I wonder how many of those patents are invalid, due to prior art? It may be that Nokia find themselves with a few less valid patents that they can milk at the end of this.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My money is on Nokia for this one

    The idea that every aspect of iPhone was developed in a clean room setting is, quite frankly laughable. If Motorola, SonyEricsson and the rest of the mobile industry pony up to Nokia for valid patents, then so should Apple.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    oh sweet

    I can see the mac fanbois crawling out of the woodwork for this one, I'd better make some popcorn and hit F5 every hour so. That way I can watch the delicious squealing whilst they writhe on a patented fishing hook.

    Today is going to be a good day.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    Double Standards

    Some companies paid SCO - nearly everyone rallied against them !

    Even if Apple scupper only 3 of the 10 claims it will be good for the industry.

    Why do people hate Apple ? I guess just because their company won't buy them a Mac or an iPhone ?

  20. TeeCee Gold badge
    Happy

    Re: oh sweet

    When catching fanbois, it's not the hook that's important, it's the bait....

  21. The First Dave Silver badge
    IT Angle

    RE: AC

    Personally, my money is on Nokia going bankrupt before they can get any adjudication either way.

    As for the bit about 'unknowingly' or not, that is Apple's polite way of saying that it is possible to patent almost anything these days, even when it is completely obvious. The theory goes that if you re-create a patented item, you must have done so be reading the Patent, and are therefore effectively breaching copyright. What Apple are saying is that this did not happen.

    <-- What's the IT angle of this story? It has nothing to do with technology, only about commercial law.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like Apple have done a Sony

    I'm getting the feeling that Apple are shouldering far more costs on the iPhone than they are letting on.

    Sony had a similiar situation with their PS3, to the point where they were selling each unit at a loss or break even (I can't remember off hand) which was being shored up by other aspects of the company.

    Prehaps Apple has spent far too much on R&D for this product, hence the expensive tariff if you want one, the fast turn around of models and the complete disregard for these patents.

  23. Stef 1
    Coat

    'Unknowingly'

    In the US,

    a verdict of liability for unknowingly infringing a patent = award of damages

    a verdict of liability for knowingly infringing a patent = award of triple ("punitive") damages

    Suddenly, the SEC phrasing makes sense.

    Having faced Nokia and tested the validity of some of its patents at the European Patent Office on behalf of a very-very-very well-known mobile technology innovator, and since Apple appears to have constructive notice of the patents (via past licensing offers)... I'd put quite a wad on Nokia, but I can't find a bookie to give me some odds. Meh.

    Mine's the one with USC 35 in the backpocket.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Turn around!

    "By refusing to compensate Nokia for its patented technologies, Apple is attempting to get a 'free ride' on the billions of dollars that Nokia has invested in research and development to provide the public with the wireless communications it enjoys today."

    By encumbering public standards with patents, Nokia is attempting to get a 'free ride' on the billions of dollars paid by governments, operators and consumers for the wireless communications they enjoy today.

    Nice to see some junk patent classics in there, too: "A backlight module for an LCD device." I wonder how many of them are software patents dressed up with a bit of hardware for that corrupt European Patent Office "technical effect".

    I don't even like Apple, but Nokia seek to set a pretty dirty precedent with this incoming dose of PR fail. Best outcome possible: Apple and Nokia sue each other into the ground.

    No, wait! Best outcome possible: legislators everywhere realise that patents are the instruments of shit that they truly are and actually reform the patent regime in a serious fashion involving a big red pen and repeatedly shouting "no!" at the idiots in charge of the patent organisations while striking out patentability on large areas of human endeavour.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Patents and patents

    "If "all other cell phone manufacturers recognise the patents", that just means that they decided that the cost of litigating, plus the risk of losing and having to pay huge damages, was greater than the cost of licensing."

    Or then there is something like 'quality' in those patents.

    As far as I know, (at least some of) these patents were not originally granted in US, but here in Finland and here you can't patent:

    a) anything that is obvious (in broad sense of word)

    b) software

    c) method

    d) anything that is not very spesific

    I'll bet than more than 99% of US patents fail in one or more of these conditions, thus making comparison to those meaningless.

    I'll agree with the commenter if patents in question are patents only in US (because it's the only country which would grant a patent).

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Only in US

    "As for the bit about 'unknowingly' or not, that is Apple's polite way of saying that it is possible to patent almost anything these days, even when it is completely obvious."

    Half-truth. It is possible in US, but try that with EPO and they'll laugh you out and burn your application in a bonfire.

    (EPO = European Patent Office)

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC 1839

    Just a small point, but these billions of dollars of which you speak, would in fact be billions of Euros and Pounds as most, if not all, of the work carried out developing GSM was in Europe, with the US only getting in on the act relatively recently. It was pretty much all driven by the telecomms industry with very small amounts of input from government.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    Deathmatch!

    In one corner we have Apple. A search on this site for Apple and Patent is likely to throw up a good number of results as recently Apple have tried to patent everything from buttons to breathing. Witness also the current litigation against the makers of the Hackintosh and it's a fair assessment that Apple guard what they see as their IP pretty fervently.

    Apple have long had form for taking standard kit, wrapping it up in a shiny box, sticking some proprietary software in it and doubling the price. Their argument and those of the fanboys who fork out for their shitty kit is frequently "Ooooh, but it's shiny!" or "But it just works!" Bollocks it just works. Have a look at the latest Time Capsule woes or the Snow Leopard debacle for stuff 'just working'.

    In the other corner we have Nokia. Nokia have innovated where Apple pretended to. Nokia were instrumental in the bringing to market of mobile phones that were affordable to nearly everyone. They were at the forefront of the developing mobile technology and their phones could always be relied on to have the latest features with each new iteration of the tech. It's a much bandied-about term but Nokia kit is very frequently the 'state of the art'.

    Now enter the Apple fanboys who think everything begins and ends with their poxy fucking phone. Look, people, it's a shitty phone with a shiny GUI. It's popular in the same way certain types of car are popular; not because they're good at what they do but because you want to be seen in it. Defending Apple for infringing the patents of another company or, worse still, trying to diminish the infringement 'because it's Apple' makes you look like what you are. Pathetic wankers.

    Beer. For Nokia and anyone who doesn't own an iPhone.

  29. Hans 1 Silver badge

    @Will 22

    On which planet do you live?

    >Apple have long had form for taking standard kit, wrapping it up in a shiny box, sticking some >proprietary software in it and doubling the price. Their argument and those of the fanboys who >fork out for their shitty kit is frequently "Ooooh, but it's shiny!" or "But it just works!" Bollocks it >just works. Have a look at the latest Time Capsule woes or the Snow Leopard debacle for >stuff 'just working'.

    Standard kit? Maybe, tell me how many ppl keep their pc's for more than 3 years in active service? On average, Mac's are kept twice as long. Just Works counts for most things Apple makes, but like any software firm, they make mistakes, too (but nowhere near most others, including all the 100 biggest).

    I bought a Ti powerbook in late 2001, it was thinner than most laptops you can get today with the same screen size. Some bloke delivering a washing machine saw it in my lounge, next to my hifi, tv, digital video camera in 2006 and guess what he came back for? The 2001 PowerBook, not the tv, the digital video camera .... it was the only thing this guy took, a cretin? certainly, but that laptop was 5 years old and you could not even tell.

    Time machine has its quirks, true, but it is sooooooo much better than nothing at all/Windows System Restore and it requires absolutely no human intervention! How do you restore a windows system that won't boot? Command line or burn an iso (not windows install cd)?

    On a mac, you boot off the installation CD and get a nice gui to restore your system.

    >In the other corner we have Nokia. Nokia have innovated where Apple pretended to. Nokia >were instrumental in the bringing to market of mobile phones that were affordable to nearly >everyone. They were at the forefront of the developing mobile technology and their phones >could always be relied on to have the latest features with each new iteration of the tech. It's a >much bandied-about term but Nokia kit is very frequently the 'state of the art'.

    Nokia make good phones... I have not seen a phone from them I would rate as smart (and my sister has the N97), but the old black and whites were ok. When they turned to colour, they got too fragile and would usually break very quickly. As for design, well, they have yet to bring out a phone that meets my design requirements, then again, not that important.

    As for Software, I think Nokia need some "developers", I do not know who created their "sync" software, but it's one of the worst pieces of crap I have come by in over 15 years in IT, the other being Canon Photo/Scanner software. (I used both, Canon for Windows and Mac and both were crap of course). I created an svg icon for their app on the Mac, out of pity, to at least make it integrate into the ui (WTF, took me 30mins).

    I am on Linux mainly, though, now. Nothing to do with time machine or [Snow] Leopard, I should say, or Mac OS X, for that matter.

  30. Fatty Treats

    "tell me how many ppl keep their pc's for more than 3 years in active service?"

    Non windows users? It's the OS, not the hardware.

    I love that the definitive assessment of one's gadgets is now what "the washing machine delivery man" nicks.

  31. bex
    Jobs Halo

    old pcs

    <<<<tell me how many ppl keep their pc's for more than 3 years in active service?" #

    By Fatty Treats Posted Tuesday 3rd November 2009 12:52 GMT

    Non windows users? It's the OS, not the hardware.>>>>

    I see plenty of old (2002) XP PCs in my job and Unlike an OS X pc from that time all the latest software will install.

    As OS X is now on its 6th version and most latest software expects at least 10.5 lots of mac users are left out in the cold

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019