usual piss-ant rehash & price hike - thanks Skeletor!!!
Apple has announced a major overhaul of its iMacs, a new unibody white Macbook, and updated Mac Minis for its holiday lineup. The Cupertino company also unveiled a new wireless multitouch mouse featuring a completely touch-sensitive top side. The company refreshed its line of iMacs today with additional two screen sizes: a 21. …
...is, as usual, a bit higher than the US price even allowing for VAT. Thanks to a Mr. G. Brown whose incompetence has led to a poor £ / $ exchange:
* The Macbook goes up 50 quid to £799.
* Magic Mouse is £55, though it's Bluetooth-only. (Two replaceable AA batteries, 4 months life. The wired "Mighty Mouse" is now the "Apple Mouse".)
* Mac minis are: £499, £649 and £799 respectively. (The latter is the Mac mini 'server' model which comes with OS X Server, has two HDDs, but no optical drive.)
* The new iMacs are rather better than the units they replace and arguably the highlight of this release. Starting at £949 and going up to £1599 for the full-monty Quad Core 27" i5 version. i7 is available as an optional upgrade to the latter. (One interesting feature is that these iMacs will also double as an external display for other devices, including DVDs and other computers.)
Oh, and the Apple Remote is now made of metal, not plastic. (Big whoop.)
Overall, the new iMacs look very, very good. The new mouse can't help but be an improvement on the flawed "Mighty Mouse", and the Macbook's much-improved battery life will help sales of that model.
The Mac minis, on the other hand, seem to be moving away from their original market. The mini server model may find some friends, but its siblings haven't had much of an update.
Shiny new toys for mokalattechino drinking ponces but nice stuff all the same.
Got a mac keyboard nearly a year ago, one of the shiny aluminium ones (no mokalattechino here btw, gentoo and tea you could stand a spoon in) and it's the dogs bollocks, well worth 40 notes.
Will be getting one of the rodent's when they appear on the shelf (won't the linux drivers for that be great fun...), a touch interface sounds like more of the mutt's nad's.
If putting up with the ponces means more tasty kit and a respectable OS getting more of the market then I'm all for it.
you have an i7 on socket 1366 for sure (with 6x2GB of memory, which runs in triple-channel mode) with a TDP of 140Watts (thus enabling a nice automated Turbo-overclock when running single- or dual threaded apps).
Apple blatantly charges $200 for the "upgrade" from i5 750 to i7 860, which is still s1156 thus runs with dual channel DDR3, while the actual price difference between the 2 cpu's is about $90 if bought by the 1000's.
If you REALLY know why you REALLY need a Mac and it's time for a new one, by all means, take the i5 iMac, it'll calculate everything you want faster than you can imagine.
In ALL other cases, please stay away from that machinery and buy yourselves a PC that fits your needs, for half the price or less.
If you're happy with what you have, be it Windows or Linux, then great! I am very happy for you, you managed to find something you like, not easy in this world today. If I choose to waste bucket loads of Lord Job's offerings, it's my money! I have to get up at 4am, 3 hours of commute and every other week do 7 days of Oracle DBA callout for a 24/7 company! I deserve a little luxury with my home IT!
I don't waste money on expensive clothes, Matalan and occasional Marks'n'Sparks visit for work shirts! By way of contrast $3000 for a pair of fecking GUCCI jeans! WTF! £3500 for a fecking Saville Row suit!!! My last car cost less than that! See, easy to mock when you don't see the point in something!
Best thing I ever bought was my iMac, yes it is overpriced, yes I don't get anything extra for my money, apart from a little peace of mind. I spent years fighting with Linux and WIndows, building and maintaining my own kit. I do it for a living now and when I get home I'm too old and too fecking tired to do it anymore, plus with kids and wife who can all manage to feck up a machine just standing next to it, I need an idiot-proof O/S, even if it cost a little more than Windows, I know it will work when I get home. I know I will not have to spend 2 hours fixing the kid's machines! OSX is idiot-proof! Plain and simple! Suits me fine!
Some of us just want the easy life, even if it costs a little more, it's worth it. So please, leave us old, tired and busy people alone, while we work out how to give Steve some more money for his next set of toys!
Re "usual piss-ant rehash & price hike - thanks Skeletor!!!"
Er, improvements all round, and very nice ones too. The new mouse will be copied just as soon as the usual suspects work out how to rip it off; the new iMacs look rather fab with those specs - and remember, Mr "Nice but", that the iMac has a rather lovely screen attached to it. OK, not everybody wants an integral screen, but what the hey! It works for me. Better still, it doesn't have the Warner Bros cartoon features of Windows attached to it. But Windows 7 will surely blow the Mac OS out of the water? Yeah, right.
Returning to the first comment by brave Mr AC, taking the piss out of a guy because he's had a liver transplant - even if it is Mr J - is about as low and stupid as one could get. You're what: 12? Maybe 13? Pray you don't get ill, sonny!
I've used MS since it still had a DOS prompt, and left it before ME or XP or whatever it became; through no fault of my own I now have a Vista Pro heap in the house, where it operates as a door-stop in the spare bedroom. It's fast, and made of clicky plastic. It cost two thirds the price of an equivalent Mac, which is worth three times as much as the PC that tried so hard to out-perform it.
Like it or not, Apple sets the benchmarks for every beige, or blue-lit, PC box out there. Your crappy little PC is made out of ticky-tacky to emulate some teensy little aspect of the newest Mac. Sure, you can add all kinds of generic kit to your PC to make it faster, flashier and fartier. But it ain't a Mac. You will never understand this, and you will flame and fume and froth. And all to no avail.
The thing about owning a Windows PC is, you probably deserve it.
There! I dun ranting.
... while all our resident Windows boys are getting ready to queue up outside their local PC World in their grotesque anoraks wondering whether to get Professional Full or Super Ultimate or Home Supreme.
I'm still fond of my 2007 all white iMac. Kinda fugly, but very cuddly. Not sure about these new sleek iMacs with the shiny screens.
The Mac Mini server option looks interesting. Almost the antithesis of the cloud. There could be a market in many small companies.
I'd poo-poo the aluminium remote, but i once poo-pooed the iPod and learned there are people with interests other than my own. Should I buy them up?
Bitch, bitch, bitch.
Always bitching about the price of Apple items.
Don't bitch about the price of a Ferrari, if you can't afford one, accept it and move on.
Apple don't pretend to be cheap or chase the bottom, so why always the bitch, is it you would like a roller at a nissan price?
Observing the huge jump in profits at Apple it seems many will pay a premium, and why not it's called choice.
Make a product people want and you don't have to stack 'em high and ell 'em cheap.
Meanwhile I must consider true cost of ownership and simplicity in getting things done.......... or is that a bit too complex for the moaning about price.
Paris - out of my price range he said bitchily
Cue 1 million dumb comments about how it's all boring and too expensive and you can build a Linux machine for 10p and Apple is evil blah blah blah.
This is a company that's just posted record profits - in a recession.
People want their stuff, they'll buy it. This is clear.
Apple knows exactly what it's doing and will continue to sell bucketloads of this stuff to very happy punters.
It's almost like they are really good at what they do and you complaining whingers are just bitter armchair warriors who resent their success? No, surely that couldn't be it, could it?
Grow up and get a life you sad prats.
Does your PC also have a 27" IPS panel display that can do 2560x1440? That alone would add at least $1000 to the price of any computer (not sure how much monitors like that cost in the UK). I just used NewEgg to "build" a PC with as close to the same specs as the 27" iMac as I could get. The iMac is $1999. The PC is $1943, without an operating system (though the PC has more expansion options). It might be that there is a bigger gap in Mac-PC pricing in the UK, but people in the US complain about a "Mac premium" as well, and it just doesn't exist.
No, but I like a 24" HD panel (desk space). So I'll add £500 for the difference in panel and you add £500 for the extra memory. I'd say you'd need to upgrade the graphics card to a board with 1GB ram to drive that no doubt great screen (fabulous resolution), but I don't think you can.
Do the math. My £1600 to your over £2100. Sorry, still no deal.
Believe it or not, I like the kit, I just think it's over priced for the components offered.
@Grumpytom: the trouble is, even at these crazy prices, this isn't a Ferrari. It's more of a Volvo. My Dad loves Volvos: one probably saved his life. But I don't want one.
I put WIn7 on my Mac a few months ago. My productivity has shot up. I haven't looked back. If it were down to me, I'd never buy another Mac: my boss thinks they're shiney, though, so I may be stuck with 'em.
I like the idea of the multi-touch mouse but I wonder how useful it would be for playing shoot-em-up games. My current Mighty-mouse causes problems with some games.
However, the idea of gestures with a multi-touch mouse-sized cat opens new possibilities. One could stroke the mouse-sized cat whilst mulling over a world-domination strategy game and be rewarded by a purring sound. Stroking cats (or dogs) has been proven to lower a person's blood pressure and might be useful to those who have Stressful Jobs as their CEO.
Why is it that Apple stuff is so damn gorgeous? Super design. Wonderful ergonomics, smooth lines, no unnecessary design detailing. Minimalism is beautiful.
People who whinge -- you know who you are... If you can't appreciate good design, you shouldn't be looking. You're sure to find some lovely plastic bling from Sony and Dell which'll be much more to your taste and budget. Or some super-cheap tat from PC World. And Windows to for such panache.
We don't need you to criticise Apple.
Or maybe you should, as it just confirms all Apple user's innate feelings of superiority as they look down on you grubby band of oiks; why don't you go back to your trailer and watch some more X-Factor?
locked in, overpriced, no user control, lack of community development, castrated BSD, mass marketing, snazzy design, the manufacture of exclusivity, the manufacture appeal through deliberately misleading adverts, an army of movie and music industry zealots living on the money fleeced out of small children and parents willing to wax lyrical about how great final cut, photoshop etc is blah blah blah.
...build one! I just finished building a Core i7-based hackintosh with (coincidentally) a 21.5" LCD. The entire kit cost around £450 by carefully selecting components and looking for sales.
Given, it was a pain in the arse to get set up, but it runs VERY fast (nearly as fast as a Mac Pro!) and was quite an interesting challenge, since few people have i7 hackintoshes yet.
From the dawn of the P.C., the price of any system (assuming that it will do the job you want to do) has to include hardware, software and your investment of time to initially learn and then, maintain it. Many place no value on their own time and for them, hardware and software price is everything. For others who do, then it's a whole different kettle of fish with the price of the hardware and software falling to near zero in relative terms - even if our time were valued at minimum wage. --- I wish I knew how many of the surging Mac sales were due to MS PC users having thrown up their hands in disgust.
I have two macs that work better for me than the linux and windows boxes I use at work. I don't quite know why but I don't comment on windows articles berating the windows fans for their odd choice of OS, maybe I'm too old to do that.
The macs I have are from 2005 and 2006 and it's only recently that I've decided that the G5 iMac may need an upgrade whereas I used to upgrade my windows boxes every six months in the vain hope that bursts of speed I'd get between disasters would average out as a reasonable experience.
The first gen macbook will keep me going for another year at least. The initial outlay is expensive but they last longer in a usable state than PCs that seem to start rotting the minute you get them home.
If Apple is beneath you or too reliable for you and just reading about macs winds you up enough to rant that they're not as cheap as your PC, then go and read about Windows 7 instead (and price up the hardware upgrades).
Stop defending the hideous and extortionate premiums Apple charge. You are being milked for all your idiot cash and Apple are loving it. How else can they post record profits at a time of recession? By putting shiny toys under the noses of rich numpties who don't understand the bits and pieces inside that sleak looking case.
Where does this idea come from that PC owners can't afford Macs? Of course they can afford them, they're just not stupid enough to pay for a bad deal when they see it. Mac owners talk about OSX as if its some sort of second coming. Fact is, the differences between OSX and Windows are very small to the average user who will only be surfing the net or using Microsoft Office. Macs are average PCs in shiny cases with hugely successful marketing.
"Cue 1 million dumb comments about how it's all boring and too expensive and you can build a Linux machine for 10p and Apple is evil blah blah blah."
Oi! No one from camp Linux has said that on this thread. Go wag your finger at the Winhoes crowd.
Having said that I love Linux. My Linux laptop cost me £ 3.67 to build it's made from burlap and Hessian, has a non reflective bitumen display and an egg carton motherboard with chips on it from Aunt Bessie. It's powered by two electrodes stuck in a potato.
I also have a CentOS server made from Lego and a hollowed out aubergine, it's was so cheap that I traded it for a stale cheese sandwich. None the less it's still good enough to control my entire Uranium enrichment plant and play Frozen Bubble on as well.
Do I hate Apple? No. I love the look and spec of the new iMacs. There's room enough in my pad for one alongside my Ubuntu machine thank you very much. I don't see the cost as an issue when you are getting something as well conceived and functional. Apple know how to make these things work and be desirable at the same time.
Now if we could just get some Linux drivers to work with that new Magic Mouse, that looks like a very nifty bit of kit.
Andrew Johnson complains: "I bought a brand new Mac Mini at an iStore 2 days ago. Today they released a faster better machine for less than I paid!! Thanks Apple!"
Apple Stores have a 14 day return policy (at least in the USA) and in the past they've been happy to refund your purchase price if you want the new machine OR they've given people a small sum as compensation to folks who complain if they'd rather keep the first machine.
Remarkably decent, really.
Well if you hanged out at the Apple forums, checked Amazon or just about any technology related site they already been talking about rumors of new mac models for weeks now so even thought Apple didn't give a heads up just about everyone else did.
Although the macmini refresh was more iffy since they just released the 2009 mini model I own earlier this year.
Doesn't look like much difference from mine though, other than the cpu speed bump, the option of getting Macos x server and of course they now include Snow Leopard instead of Leopard that came with mine.
To you sorry jealous PC dumbasse whining on about price.
YOU CAN RUN MAC OS X AND WINDOWS 100% NATIVE AND LEGAL!!!
People are VERY happy to pay a premium for this.
And don't give me this shit that OS X can run on PCs. A tiny minority of wanabe welfare hackers do this, it is not viable mass Market.
Go get a JOB so you can buy a Mac rather than showing your jealous.
C'mon some macs are nice. But imacs? Seriously... they are shit.
Big screen no doubt.
All the disadvantages of a laptop and desktop combined, price not withstanding.
And the ergonomics?
I know this is inflammatory. But imacs are serious shit. I would not EVER buy one second hand unless it was offered to me at a 'fallen off the back of a hiace' price.
Top spec i7 27" iMac for £1759, find an All-in-one Desktop PC with the same spec? er... no.
Closest contender on price a 24" Dell XPS for £1400 with integrated graphics, a smaller screen, only 2 gb of RAM, oh.... and a habit of freezing at start up, reaching 90ºc on it's top surface and running the fans at a deafening speed. But wait.... hey! It's got a Blu-ray player.
Next....Sony Vile® All-in-one, 25.5" screen, Core2 quad 2.26 Ghz, 4 gb Ram, 9600 GT graphics
Good comparative spec but fugly and £2109. Hmm those iMacs are just sooo expensive...
Why Paris? Cos sometimes things that look good can be cheap too... if you look closely :)
Andrew Johnson 1: Apple have a 14-day no questions asked opened or unopened return policy, for just such issues. You should be able to return and replace with latest model with ease.
As to the new iMac, the i7 is worth the upgrade not only for speed but also because it is multithreaded, which means that although it has 4 physical CPU cores it has 8 logical cores -- even better for parallel operations (run VMWare on 4-cores and still have 4-cores for Mac OS X).
I also like the look of the Magic Mouse, I think it looks like they've finally got there -- a great improvement over Mighty Mouse with it's stupid tiny rollerball that cannot be cleaned (no matter what people say) and clogs up. Multi-touch features only lack pinch, but I am sure we'll see that on v2.
Surely that's too big? You'd end up having to put it further away from yourself just so you could take it all in, in which case you might as well have had a smaller screen and put it closer. I'd say 23-24" is about the limit of usefulness for a desktop PC - It seems odd that they've ditched this option.
Nice set of updates in general though - and I don't think most of it is overpriced for what it is (if you go with the standard versions - the upgrades they offer are often at silly prices)
Wow... not seen a Mac-lash like this for a long time... i think someone touched a nerve. It's completely fair to mention price as a part of the package.
One of the AC posts above mentions that it's not "fair" to talk about price (a feature) before going on to talk about how OSX is so easy to use (a feature). You need to compare features with other features.
Yes, apple make shiny products - but they charge accordingly. Pay your money and take the choice.
By the way, I got stung by buying an iPod for Apple to release a shinier, bigger and better one a week later... pretty annoying. But if it's any consolation, I use an Apple keyboard... it was the best one i could find when i was shopping for one.
"Not at those prices. I have an i7 desktop of the same spec as the top end box, except I have 12GB memory and Win 7. Mine cost £1100 - iMac with 4GB is £1600. Add £500 for an extra 8GB.
They look nice, but that premium? No way, José!"
Add a decent 27 inch monitor, with DisplayPort. Now, fit the whole lot (including LCD) into a case not much larger than the LCD..
Your £1100 PC suddenly doesn't look feasible, does it?
Yep lets pin that one on the government too. Only if you have been awake for the last 10 odd years you would notice that there has always been big discrepency in hardware and software pricing between here and the US. Wierdly when asked of, the US manufactures that is, why this is so out comes the old dollar / sterling exchange bollocks.
If you don't want to pay these prices don't buy the kit and force them to rethink their attitude to the EU area. They would never pull a stunt like this on the Yanks but we are daft enough to tolerate it.
Like others have said if you don't like the price of a Ferrari don't by it. Other four wheeled, petrol machines do the same job - most are more reliable ;-)
"Not at those prices. I have an i7 desktop of the same spec as the top end box, except I have 12GB memory and Win 7. Mine cost £1100 - iMac with 4GB is £1600. Add £500 for an extra 8GB.
They look nice, but that premium?"
You're missing the point.
Whatever the PC looks like, no matter how fast and shiny it is, it is still lumbered with crappy Windows.
I used to be Windows/PC all the way for years.
Converted to Mac 3 years ago.
I'd happily pay £500 so that I would never have to use Windows ever again, including the all new, much celebrated Windows 7(which is what Vista should have been, only 2 years late (like most MS products)).
Windows 7 - Trying to be a OSX since Vista, but still falling short.
No Thanks, I'll pay the premium.
And I don't mind admitting, yes, I'll also enjoy having a better looking, less cluttered desktop too, cos my Mac is aesthetically beautiful compared to EVERY PC I have ever seen.
Hint to the Nerdcore: Having visible components and fans and lots of coloured lights in your computer is not cool, it's trashy and identifies you as a no-life, no girlfriend loser.
"while we work out how to give Steve some more money for his next set of toys!"
One day you'll realise that life DOESN'T revolve around owning Apple products and you'll wish that your bank account was a bit healthier and Steve had a few less toys.
Of course Steve won't give a toss, he'll be on some yacht in the Med with more hot 19 year old girls than you've had hot dinners.
"This is a company that's just posted record profits - in a recession." - By Anonymous Coward Posted Tuesday 20th October 2009 20:50 GMT
You just summed it all up nicely, Apple posted record profits in a recession. Off the back of you idiots willing to pay a huge markup to feel as if you belong to an exclusive club and lord it up over everyone else.
Don't worry though, with screens that size to hide behind you won't see everyone else's sheer contempt fo you.
As for the new range, if I had the dosh I'd probably try one, then stick Win7 on it so I could do gaming properly!
Apple have never made a nice mouse, yet non-Apple mice always take ages to be picked up by the Bluetooth, will be interested in the reviews of this new one.
The Mini, this would make the best media centre ever if only it had HDMI on, sure you can use DVI-HDMI but you'll not get any sound.
I've just bought a second hand 8-core Mac-Pro, looking at the new iMac's probably should have bought one of them instead.
I don't like the iMacs. It strikes me that they're like those TV/VCR combos, which locked you into a full upgrade. I like it that I can swap out my monitor anytime I please, or swap out my CPU.
I know that my beige box can have a PSU upgrade for about £30. It blows up, I throw it out and put a new one in. Can I do that with an iMac, or do I have to go back to Apple and get an expensive repair done?
Why not just have a mini on your desk and a monitor of choice?
To all the whingers, complainers and bitter fools:
if you don't like them, don't buy them. Simple. Why waste your time complaining on the internet about something you were never going to buy anyway? Idiots.
Unless of course (gasp) you have nothing better to do than harp on about how terrible it all is despite not owning any of it.
"So let me get this straight. With 5% of the market, Apple is "preempting" Microsoft? Apple are a bit player in the PC market, period. 95% of people don't give a flying **** what Apple do!"
Did we just warp back to 2005? Apple has a little under 10% of the market share the last time I checked (linux a bit under 2% for what it's worth) and MS about 87%. Not a huge difference but enough for software companies to sit up and take notice. Like it or not, MS's rein of terror is over, Caesar has left the building and the foundations are crumbling.
Are these cocks even vaguely aware that disposable income is in short supply the world over? The Mini is supposed to be there as an entry level machine to tempt people away from their PC. You can see it in their marketing where they point out it will work with the KVM of your current PC. So why the fuck is every subsequent version more expensive than the last?
Do the guys in marketing ever talk to the engineers? Do any of them talk to potential customers? Do they ever even look out of the window at the rest of the world? <insert windows joke here>
I know the fanbois like the kit to be expensive. I know that they don't want cheap Macs because then the great unwashed could afford them and the fanbois wouldn't feel special anymore. But why is it that Apple themselves seem to have the same attitude?
I'd love a multitouch mouse. Now all we really need is a multitouch network switch, a touch sensitive USB cable and range of office supplies controlled by touch gestures, like a multitouch stapler.
Innovation must never be driven by consumer needs or the development of humankind. Technology for technology's sake is the way to go!
Now if only there was a company who could sell this pointless crap to brainless punters at grossly inflated prices...
"I know the fanbois like the kit to be expensive. I know that they don't want cheap Macs because then the great unwashed could afford them and the fanbois wouldn't feel special anymore. But why is it that Apple themselves seem to have the same attitude?"
Because they are in business in order to make money.
"So let me get this straight. With 5% of the market, Apple is "preempting" Microsoft? Apple are a bit player in the PC market, period. 95% of people don't give a flying **** what Apple do!"
Well, first of all, it's 9% for apple.
Next, from the rampant and insecent screaming in forums like this from PC owners who have both never owned or exentively used the products they're bashing, a whole lot of the 91% left absolutely DO give a flying **** what apple does (and most of them do ther damndest to emulate and copy what apple does for less money if they can).
Oh, here's one for you: Microsofts whiny new PC recomendation tool. microsoft.com/windows/PC-scout. Put in the specs of ANY of the Macbooks and see what you get. Yup, not a single competitive PC at any price... NOT 1!
I've got 2 sidebyside 22" screens and I could use more desktop space.
For a secretary's desk, yea, it would be gargantuan, but for deaily use, honestly, if you already have a 22" screen, it would add about the width of a coffee cup to the dimentions.
Note the screen is not set in the middle of a huge mass of plastic anymore. Its fairly flush to the edges. I dont; feel like looking it up atm, but my bet is the 27" now has within 2" the width of the older 22" imacs, and within the same of the current 24" iMacs. It's not that much bigger.
plus, at this size you can easily set it farther back on your desk, and have a tone more actual space in front of you.
I sometimes think that El Reg would vanish in a puff off smoke if it were not for these periodic Mac vs Windows spats, with the penguins cheering on from the sides.
I use a Mac. My wife, my son, my daughter and my business partner all use Macs. I am very happy to be using a Mac. I am happy that I don't need to worry overmuch about malware (not completely complacent but the odds are in my favour). I am happy that a crashing app doesn't bring the O/S tumbling down with it. I am happy that my machine doesn't need to be rebooted on a regular basis to recover its resources. I am happy that I can afford to think of these things rather than looking for the absolute cheapest computing I could find.
If I were a hardcore gamer I would probably have stayed with Windows, but I'm not. In the event that I ever need to run an app that is Windows-only I have Parallels although I have never actually installed it because I have not yet hit that need.
But I don't feel the need to slag off those who stick with Microsoft. They can definitely buy cheaper hardware. They can play more games and there is no doubt a greater quantity of applications available for the platform. And so long as Windows remains the dominant O/S in the market the bad guys will probably continue their concentration on low-hanging fruit rather than trying to raise their game and come after me.
On the whole, life is good.
I've bought a Mac Book Pro in the last 6 months. Best machine I've ever bought. Works very well. Runs Win XP (using VirtualBox). I'm sure it would run Win 7, but who cares. I develop web solutions for a living and it works just fine.
As to the new mouse, if it works as well as the MBP touch pad then it will be a winner. Multi-touch is amazing.
As to price, you can argue about that all day. While you're doing that I'll be enjoying myself in Mac land. There's not a massive difference in cost at the end of the day (and remember OS/X needs less resources than Windooooze).
Look like good upgrades from Apple in general.
I am certainly going to get at least one of the mouses and with my extraordinary powers of self-restraint I will probably walk out of the store with a 27" iMac and new 15" MBP for the Mrs to assuage my guilt.
I hope 15 inches is enough for her.
/damn you Steve
It never ceases to amaze me how much people are moaning. Do you also moan at BMW or Mercedes when they release a new car because it costs more than a Ford? Some of you PC zealots seem to think it's your birth right that all computers are priced rock bottom and look like plastic dustbins.
Apple certainly don't appeal to every class of consumer, but they certainly are very sexy and stylish and generally do their job extremely well. Let's not forget about the amazing resale value as well.
@Anonymous Coward - Castrated BSD? Erm how about fully certified Unix implementation that actually has a nice GUI and you don't have to resort to the command line unless you really want to?
Can't afford it? Don't want to afford it? Fine - go take your PC to peices and work out which part you want to upgrade this month or even better go down the pub and stop being such nerds.
Look, for the last time, there is a discrepancy between prices in the US and EU because in the UK and in the EU there is a thing called VAT. Not just VAT on the price of the product, but there's VAT on the rent for the apple store, there's VAT on the fucking toilet paper in the Apple UK offices, there's VAT to pay on everything... in America you pay sales tax once, when the product is sold to the "final consumer" -therefore America is cheaper. Please remember this when you Brits whine.
"To be fair to Windows, these issues haven't been a problem since the bad old days of Windows 9x/Me."
Well, my last Windows machine was XP and it still had both issues. Not as badly as 98/ME to be sure but I definitely couldn't leave it running for more than 48 hours or so without having to reboot or it would slowly grind to a halt.
Not got such a good grasp of the tax system have we? All the VAT further up the supply chain is reclaimable such that the net tax take is that paid by the final consumer. Each business pays tax only on the value it has added. That's why it's called Value Added Tax. Geddit?
The reason it has more impact is that in general VAT rates are higher in Europe than are sales tax rates in the US. Oh, and the fact that prices in the US are invariably quoted net of tax while in Europe they are usually quoted VAT inclusive, especially for products and services offered to the consumer rather than B2B.
You probably can't claim that the threaded issue was resolved in XP, I'd say it went in Vista.
The Vista builds I have running have had application crashes that haven't taken down the OS at all or to the degree that it happened in XP. That was one of the supposedly big changes in Vista was it's ability not to crash the kernal when a threaded application went tits up, on the whole I think they have achieved that (certainly so with No.7 (no not the make-up brand the MS OS)).
Depending on your build you can get Vista to run for at least a week without encountering any problems.
(Mac fans stay back, I'm not dissing Apple or their products, just adding to the discussion Ian and Dale have entered into).
It seems you are the one who does not know much about the tax system: VAT does not stand for "Value" Added Tax - how does that make any sense? How is it adding value to anything? VAT is a word, not an abbreviation:
• noun, a large tank or tub used to hold liquid.
Why this tax is named after a tub I don't know, but it certainly has nothing to do with value.
A new version of Windows is coming out. Many people will be thinking of buying a new computer as a result. Apple know full well that many people run Windows on their Macs.
Ergo, it is in Apple's interests to do their utmost to ensure people consider buying their hardware on which to run Win7.
It's the "free" mouse... so who cares. I throw out the mouse that comes with the Dells and IBMs at the office too... If the new thing is actually really nice, and works, you'll see everyone else trying to copy it (and pay heafty royalties to apple for it, since I did see the patent app on this recently approved).
If you don't want the new touch mouse, choose the older mouse option when ordering, save $20, and go buy a regular bluetooth mouse you're comfortable with. Better to have something you like for a few bucks more (and maybe see the other on ebay, or just keep it in the drawer as a backup).
At least the keyboard isn't also a POS, cuz we throw those out with ther Dells too, and spend $60-80 a piece on quality kit that lasts and feels good typing on. Each $700 PC we bring in, we add $260 to between a good mouse, keyboard, AV client license (no, there are NO free centrally managed, logged, auditable AV clients out there, so **** all you people who say you can use free AV...),
Also, no problems here using bluetooth with our macs with anyone's mice (except for the ones that also taike forever to sync to PCs, which is clearly the mouse's problem, no Apple).
Also, who in their right mind pays ANY manufacturer to upgradce the RAM in a new machine at the factory? Dell's RAM and HDD upgrade costs are equally unreasonable, so are HPs, so are IBMs, and Sony's are off the chart! MacMall usually doubles the RAM free on most systems, and if not, you can buy RAM much cheaper and self install. Since Apple (unliek most companies) is nice enough to ship 2 chips in 4 slots (not 4 in 4) you can add another 4GB for $93 from Crucial (less from New Egg). Now, going from 4 to 12 or 16, not as big of a deal... you only save $120 doing it yourself due to the massive cost of the 4GB SoDIMMS. Much better to have those under Apple's warranty.
Now, for Pricing:
everyone's comparing the 27", which granted, the screen alone is rediculously priced so building a PC and getting a 27" to go with it, let alone an LED backlit super high res model like this, is not happening cheap, and that alone makes the iMac an impressive deal. But honestly, 22" is fine for most people, so lets look at those 2 models:
base model, $1199. (1149 for students and teachers).
4GB 1066 RAM (with 2 additional slots open to go to 16GB!), 3.06GHz duo (with VT and 64bit extensions!), 500GB 7200 drive, Descrete graphics, webcam (i'll considder that optional), gigabit ethernet, 802.11n, and bluetooth, and a DVD writer. Oh, and a 22 (21.5) 1080P native display.
Per New Egg, no 21.5 or 22" displays are available under $169 (plus shipping) with 1080 native resolution and all the decent ones are $199 and higher, so we'll say, the screen is worth $200. The Dell XPS 630 is the only model comperable (base components or better) to iMac configuration, so I've configured one. Same CPU (no VT), same RAM (800mhz, vs Apple's 1066, and only upgradeably to 8GB) , same HDD, same DVD drive but adding Roxio to give it equal capabilities, the Vid card is better, but its not extreme added the cheapest kbd and mouse options (none come with it, these were not wireless), no software, no accessories, no wireless networking, and not even Vista Ultimate, and it;s $988. Also no webcam, mic, or speakers were included... So it's more expensive than an iMac, even without being an all-in-one, and it's slower and has fewer options installed. Sure, you can add more than 1 HDD, and can change the vid card...
OK, I'll bite. REALLY?! No, surely you are joking! Next time use the joke icon so we know!
"It seems you are the one who does not know much about the tax system: VAT does not stand for "Value" Added Tax - how does that make any sense? How is it adding value to anything? VAT is a word, not an abbreviation…"
You are joking! You must be! I refuse to believe that ANYBODY would in all seriousness post that!
Value Added Tax for those that are unaware, is a tax levied ON THE VALUE of an item or service that is sold. You never know, judging by some of the post we see here on a daily basis this guy may be serious! No wonder he's hiding his name!
"It seems you are the one who does not know much about the tax system: VAT does not stand for "Value" Added Tax - how does that make any sense?"
And here's me sitting down and filling in my Value Added Tax Return that HM Customs and Excise have kindly sent me. Do you suppose I should write to them and tell them they have it wrong?
Apple. Successfully going out of business since 1981.
Seriously, folks, reach between your legs, grab your ears, and pull. Apple has great design and (generally) well-made hardware and software and they make a pile of money from their efforts. In over 40 years of observing the world, I can say that they probably deserve it if people choose to spend their money that way. It's not like they're a monopoly that can manipulate markets and companies with an iron hand.
Apple often has a two-week or one-month no-questions-asked return policy. Take your mac mini back and see if you can trade it in for a new one. Seriously, I've found the folks at our local Apple Store to be that easy to work with.
True story: remember about four or five years ago, when there was a problem with the iPod batteries? They'd gotten a bad batch or something. Anyway, a co-worker at the time had one and six months later, he told me his battery was crap and he was PO'd at Apple. I told him how they'd had a bad batch of batteries and replaced iPods for free. So he went over, and this was long after the recall officially ended, the Genius said "Yeah, this is a bad one. I tell you what, we don't make 30GB iPods anymore, here, take this brand new 40GB iPod to replace your two-year old one". This was a Windows programmer, and he was ready to make an iBook his next laptop right then and there.
A comment, and a question.
Comment: I think all computer-users are spoiled for price. I’m a professional photographer. The body (never mind the lens) of my camera of choice – Nikon D300 – costs more than the new top-spec iMac, and it has a lot less processing power. To me, the price of an iMac is cheap! I do a lot of photo editing, and y’know, I get tired of having to reboot my (year old) high-spec windoze machine every 5 photos. I certainly think the iMac is the way to go. 27 inches? Mamma! It’s Photoshop heaven!
Now the question: I have terrible hands, in the winter their flakier than Paris’ relationships! I wear gloves almost permanently in winter, and half the time in summer. Would I be able to use this new Fantabulumouse while wearing gloves? Is it pressure sensitive or touch sensitive like those pesky elevator buttons I can never push in winter? Or is this one lost to me and I need to get a dime-store cheapy?
I lied – 2 questions: a keyboard without a keypad? Ah no man, I want my numbers on the right! I wonder if my local branch of Apple (Me’s not in the UK or US) can gimme a “normal” keyboard instead of the new fancy one? I won’t mind a wire or two along with the wires of my desklamps, headphones, radio, printer, cell-charger, card-reader…
Paris – cos I’m as lost as she is.
Hmm, I really think you are wrong on this point: Do you honestly believe it is a coincidence that the government would chose those exact three letters while knowing that the word VAT already exists in the English language? I think not.
As for this "HM Customs and Excise" letter you have received - be very careful who you hand your details over to. If you even consider handing over any of your bank details, your money will end up in Lagos faster than a rat up a drainpipe. Don't just go completing any form that arrives in the post!
$200 for the monitor is a bit optimistic. The display in both iMacs is an IPS panel, which most people ignore when pricing out components to compare to it. IPS panels are expensive. In fact, the cheapest one NewEgg has that can do 1920x1080+ that uses an IPS panel is $949 (though that's 24" and does 1920x1200, so it's better than the iMac one). They have a 1600x1200 20.1" IPS display for $770. Most people might be happy with a TN panel (which nearly all cheap monitors use), but the iMac uses a high quality, expensive IPS panel, and if someone's going to complain about the price, they have to take that into consideration. Most monitors don't say what display technology they use, but an easy way to tell is with the viewing angle. IPS displays will have 178° both horizontal and vertical viewing angles, while TN panels will have 160° or 170°.
Don't buy things because they are the fastest/smallest/etc, they never will be for long. Buy things because they are the best thing on the market at the time that has all the features you need, good value, good ergonomics, and good durability.
Oh, hang on, I think I just explained in two sentences why some people buy Macs instead of Windows machines. Oh, and I'm typing this on a Powerbook G4 that was discontinued about 4 years ago. Look at that...
One thing to point out in the whole Apple Tax debate: a 5 year old PC is so worthless it's almost impossible to give away, even to charity (speaking from experience on that one), and a 5 year old Mac in good condition will still be worth 30% of it's original value on eBay. Case in point: my 15" Powerbook G4 (the Hi-res 1.67GHz version) is still worth £400.
I used to enjoy not a few of your posts, Anonymous Coward, but, lately, you seemed to have lost the plot - perhaps it's stress.
>This is a company [Apple] that's just posted record profits - in a recession.
Yes, and tell me exactly what Apple did to avert a financial meltdown during the recession? What genius within himself did Jobs call upon to stave off a collapse in sales? A recession affects different sectors differently. A recession is NOT a complete failing of the economy. So, it should come as no surprise that there are profitable companies during downturns. Apple has maintained profitability because it is selling to a wealthier crowd, and those with more disposable income.
Let's be honest, many corporations use child, and cheap, labor to maintain profits - our manufacturing base moved to China and elsewhere for a reason. Corporations also lay off workers when profits slump. Let's not pretend it's all down to the sheer audacity and business acumen of the CEOs. It's often down to simple things that any idiot can do, especially if they have no concern for others. British American Tobacco, for example, pays its workers in Kenya so little, they can't afford enough food for their families. BAT, not satisfied with making its employees' children go hungry, interferes in Kenyan politics to worsen the lot of Kenyans generally. The profits BAT is making for its investors and executives is pure theft.
>People want their stuff, they'll buy it. This is clear.
Apple has found a niche market. That's what's clear!
>Apple knows exactly what it's doing and will continue to sell bucketloads of this stuff to very
Apple has stumbled plenty of times in the past. Apple does NOT know exactly what it's doing. It is NOT "God"! If Apple knew exactly what it was doing in the past, it would be Microsoft today.
>It's almost like they are really good at what they do and you complaining whingers are just
>bitter armchair warriors who resent their success?
A person can't be bitter towards a corporation - it's not an individual! People resent having more money taken off them than is necessary or fair. The CEOs you defend moan about their taxes, despite being rich, and do all they can to avoid paying tax, both personally and on behalf of their corporations. Why don't you call them bitter? Steve Jobs hires people to do the work for him. The real geniuses behind Apple and Microsoft are Steve Wozniak and Gary Kildall (the real father of the PC operating system), neither of which I resent (Kildall, sadly, is dead).
>Grow up and get a life you sad prats.
So, if we're not rich executives, or if we don't kiss CEO ass, or if we don't like our money effectively stolen from us, we're bitter little children who need to grow up?
I defend Linux simply because it's in our interests to have another operating system. Linux is Unix for the PC. Unix is a professional OS! The biggest problem for Linux is the lack of manufacturer support - that's not Linux's fault!
I can only assume Anonymous_Coward is trying to give us a foretaste of what the next government is going to be like.
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