back to article El Reg space paper plane christened Vulture 1

It's official: The El Reg "Paper Aircraft Released Into Space" (PARIS) vehicle has been christened Vulture 1 by popular vote, and with this formality out of the way we can move on to pondering just how our audacious upper atmosphere programme is actually going to work. We're grateful to all those readers who chipped in with …

COMMENTS

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  1. Andrew Moore

    How about...

    "Something else which you lot might want to ponder is just how we can release the Vulture 1 from the helium balloon at a predetermined altitude, without having to put together a mechanism which will add greatly to the payload weight. Any thoughts?"

    A simple latex balloon would do the trick- the difference between the air pressure internal/external would make the balloon pop at a particular altitude (some testing needed to determine the amount of air to prefill the balloon with). You could then connect the PARIS directly to the balloon (though this runs the risk of non-separation due to the balloon not disintergrating fully) or have some form of holding mechanism which holds the PARIS as long as the balloon is inflated.

  2. Charles King

    I hope you realise...

    Whatever method is finally decided upon, it's mandatory that it involve rubber bands in some form.

    No rubber bands = instant fail.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Title? What Title?

    Not an engineer myself, but might be worth having a butchers at the design of the Japanese "Fire Baloon" bombs. There is a link to wiki - but couldn't bring myself to post it.

  4. JetSetJim Silver badge
    Boffin

    These fella's might help with info, if approached nicely...

    http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova.php

  5. Ball boy

    Any coating?

    "The Vulture 1 must be constructed entirely of paper, although hi-tech coatings are permissible" - so we can get away with tissue paper re-enforced with carbon fibre? Oh, good :-)

    Seriously, the only releases I can think of are time-related (x-seconds after launch) or remotely-triggered - anything relying on pressure or temprature could result in a low or over-altitude launch.

    We need to work backwards from the payload weight and so work out the airframe required - but paper (without the carbon stiffening) will be a heck of a challenge!

    /Where's the Reg's bird icon when you need it?

  6. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    FAIL

    Fail at Stage One

    Didn't the Japanese in WW2 launch Fire Ballons adorned with bombs to traverse the Jet Stream intending to drop their cargo over the US of A ?

    Why, yes they did. According to <cough>pedia they carried a payload of up to 35kg plus sandbags for ballast, wth auto-ballast control and auto-release mechanisms for the payload.

    If El Reg is having problems with a paper plane payload maybe you need to talk to the Japanese ;-)

    Rather ironic that the notion of PARIS evolved through knocking other people's efforts don't you think ?

  7. Will Shaw
    WTF?

    You're Over-engineering Your Tracking System

    Why don't you just make the whole thing out of stamped, self-addressed envelope? That way, after re-entry, someone can just find it, stuff the crew inside and bung it in a letter box. Simples.

  8. Your alien overlord - fear me
    Paris Hilton

    Been there, done that

    http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:pegasus2

    These guys might be able to help/offer advice

  9. Mike Richards

    @ Andrew Moore

    'A simple latex balloon would do the trick'

    And it seems somehow appropriate to use latex around PARIS.

    This project makes me proud(ish) to be British once more - what with Top Gear firing a Robin Reliant into the stratosphere and the Reg building a high altitude paper plane it's like the heady days of the Blue Streak and Bryllcreem.

    Lester now needs to answer one more crucial question.

    Do you have a shed?

  10. Andy Hockey
    FAIL

    @Charles King

    Sorry in this case Rubber Bands = Instant Fail.

    It'll be too cold up there for them to work correctly, I suspect the same for Blu-Tac, But Cable Ties on the other hand...

    No Cable Ties = Instant Fail

  11. Code Monkey

    @Charles King

    And gaffer tape. If it doesn't work, you're not using enough gaffer tape.

  12. Adam Foxton
    Paris Hilton

    May I suggest

    a name for the lifting craft?

    The "White Knight in Paris"

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @How about

    naw .... long piece of string is much simpler!

  14. Jason Togneri
    Boffin

    @ Andrew Moore / balloons

    I was about to suggest balloons too. What I'm picturing is a sloping launch ramp so that the PARIS is always in a pointing-downwards position. The only thing stopping it from sliding off and launching is the balloon. When the balloon bursts, the plane slides free, problem solved. The only possible danger is entanglement on balloon fragments, but I'm picturing the balloon restrained from underneath the lip of the bottom of the ramp, so it will fall underneath while the PARIS slides past. Plausible?

  15. Paul 4

    I hope you realise..

    And gaffer tape. All good engineering is held together with gaffer tape.

  16. DS
    Paris Hilton

    Release Mechanism

    How about a "fuse", a glass vial filled with a gas that breaks, a la the latex suggestion above, at a specified range in altitude? You could make the fasteners from a durable plastic. This would solve the "incomplete separation" issue while keeping the payload light enough for PARIS to get off on it.. With it. Take off with it.

  17. Philip Skinner
    Alien

    Release

    First thing that came to mind would be a glass stick containing a pressurised gas with a certain thickness of glass. The stick would be tied onto the balloon and the plane. When the pressure outside the stick becomes too little, it will rupture, splitting the connection between the plane and the balloon and drop the plane.

    Probably too fragile, but meh.

  18. Vulch
    Coat

    Diminutive Crew?

    If I was a PlayMobil figure in El Reg's office I'd be getting worried and looking for escape routes about now...

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Release

    How about using the expanding weather balloon as the release mechanism.

    You know when it will pop, correct? You know what size its pop point is, right?

    Then using some maths, some duct tape, some string and a holding pin you can release it at a rough altitude.

    Picture description.

    http://i30.tinypic.com/snnz42.gif

    Piece of string at right length (Add maths there) is taped to the top of the balloon then the other end to a pin.

    2 hoops with a pin between keep the plane to the balloon.

    When the balloon expands, the string gets tighter against the balloon and eventually pulls the pin out which in turn releases the plane.

  20. Jasmine Strong

    How to pop a balloon at a predictable height

    This is pretty easy. You have a GPS tracker already, so just use a nylon tether between the aircraft and the balloon and have the GPS controller connect the battery to a bit of nichrome wire wrapped around the tether. When the GPS shows that the aircraft is falling, turn off the current. Shouldn't weigh more than a few grammes.

  21. Paolo 1
    Go

    Design software

    Sounds like you need some CAD assistance for this launch system.

    This ought to help:

    http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/25

  22. jonathan keith
    Paris Hilton

    Separation anxiety

    As this marvel of modern engineering is going to be manned, can't the crew just cut the string connecting Vulture 1 to the launch vehicle with some tiny scissors?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The higher you go the cooler it gets...

    And this will affect the electronics modules. Most electronic devices like that nice stable region of 0 to +40 deg C for operation. At 10,000m the temperature is typically -55deg C (if the Moving Map on the 767 is to be believed). So the GPS might want a bit of a woolly jumper and hat.

  24. Paul Murphy 1

    Simple or complicated?

    Simple - how high would the balloon go anyway? if the balloon won't go above a certain height anyway then it won't matter when it releases, just set a timer (digital watch circuit or an incrementing ASIC) to ignite a small charge (you only need to blow the PARIS off!) to affect the release.

    Complicated - well, talk to NASA, but assuming you want a certain altitude you could use the (A)GPS for this as well since that would give you an altitude reading as well as the earth-bound position.

    Ok - a silly one: a REALLY long bit of string, or another ballon carrying a small person with a pair of scissors on a stick.

    ttfn

  25. Jon Double Nice

    How about a really long bit of string?

    If you tie a bit of string to the release mechanism, then hold on to the other end and let the balloon go, then so long as you've cut the bit of string to the correct length then when the balloon gets high enough the string will pull on the release mechanism and launch your Vulture 1.

    As an added bonus, if you then tied the ground control end of the string to a fence or lamp post, you could leave the balloon up there as a sort of 'space elevator lite'.

  26. Martin Gregorie Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Balloon and self-guiding glider

    Take a gander at this web site:

    http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/index.htm

    This plane flew several times before it was lost when it hit the top of a mountain. It used a weather balloon for launch though it was a simple balsa and tissue model rather than paper. It took photos all the way down from 70,000 ft while guiding itself back to its launch point.

    As it was a one man project, something like it should be easily done by a gang of El Reg hacks. Just make sure you have a competent model aircraft builder in the team. This way you're more likely to get a plane that flies rather than plummets.

    As JetSetJim says, talk to the guys at CUspace since they have several successful weather balloon flights under their belts.

  27. Steve Swann
    Go

    Documentary!

    I trust you've engaged a film crew to make a fly-on-the-wall documentary recording this momentous occasion? I mean, where will we be with a last second interview with the ground and flight crews?!

    Go! (or no-go, who knows?)

  28. Lionel Baden
    Thumb Up

    Release Mechanism !

    Good sniper on the ground ought to manage that !!

  29. Andus McCoatover

    @Andrew Moore

    <<A simple latex balloon would do the trick- the difference between the air pressure internal/external would make the balloon pop at a particular altitude (some testing needed to determine the amount of air to prefill the balloon with)>>

    Well good idea. 'Course, if it's called PARIS, then the obvious source of the release balloon might be procured from the local barber. "Something for the weekend, Sir?*"

    Perfect for El Reg.

    (Actually, clockwork 'dethermalisers' are cheap-ish and available. Or, just fly the fuc*ker over London, and let the RAF do the job for you...)

    * Once, I heard a story about BBC wanting to waterproof microphones. One BBC engineer went to the chemist, and bought a few different brands of condoms, opened them up IN STORE! - and measured the thickness with a micrometer.

    Chemist wandered over and said, "Bit choosy, are we, Sir?". Probably not true, but an amusing read.

  30. Ben Mortimer

    Altitude release

    Presumably the rate of climb of the baloon is constant predictable, allowing some sort of timed release mechanism could be used (in the vein of the time pencils used to detonate explosives during WW2).

  31. Stuart Rogers

    @jonathan keith: Separation anxiety

    "can't the crew just cut the string connecting Vulture 1 to the launch vehicle with some tiny scissors?"

    No - the crew will never get the scissors through security. They'll have to use the plastic cutlery that comes with the in-flight meal.

  32. Robin Bradshaw
    Boffin

    Thoughts on vehicle electronics

    Ok some of this isnt entirely applicable to the vulture1, especially as the airframe id choose for such a plane would be a cheap EPS foam model plane, however if you want some data logging, photo taking and possibly a return to home feature so you dont have to go looking for it after release you should really have a look at the open source paparazzi UAV project.

    http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Main_Page

    Basically all you need to build a GPS guided remote/autonomous UAV at very low cost. Whilst the radio link they use for telemetry wont work over the distance you are planning its a modular design and im sure a better link could be substituted if you wanted real time control, it would probably also be possible to have it set up to make its run autonomously and glide back to home base allowing you to retrieve the photos/video without the hassle of going looking for it.

    The group behind this presented at the Chaos communications congress in 2007 and demonstrated controlling a UAV over the internet the video is very interesting and can be found here

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6900719579308461104

    or on your favourite peer to peer network etc as is creative commons licensed.

  33. Mark Monaghan
    Coat

    Launch vehicle / lifting craft

    Surely the launch vehicle should be named "Rover".

    Be seeing you.

  34. Hugh_Pym

    Don't forget the temperature

    A lot of the suggestions involve batteries and latex. These may work at sea level but may have problems in the chillier climes of the upper atmosphere. Bearing in mind that testing the systems at the boundaries of space is quite difficult, the release mechanism must be unaffected by extremes of temperature.

    What about using the expansion of water as it freezes. You could rig a blocked syringe as a piston assembly to unlock a gate. I guess the water could be 'doped' to operate at the required temperature.

  35. Graham Bartlett
    Boffin

    @Jasmine

    Uou mean turn *on* the current, right, Jasmine?

    You could improve on that basic design by liberally coating the tether with black powder out of devil-bangers (or the contents of a firework), although this might pose some danger to a paper-based aircraft.

    In the interests of helping the plane fly, it'd be a plan to put the separation mechanism on the balloon side of things. OK, you won't get it back, but that's not a major issue, whereas adding extra payload weight to your paper plane probably is. And it also solves other problems like wires and batteries getting hot.

    As regards "assisted" paper, it's worth looking at how hang-gliders are built. Lolly-stick kingpost and kite-string luff lines to ensure it automatically recovers from a dive. Plus a decent amount of dihedral on the wings held in place by futher kite-string lines on the underside, so that it's stable side-to-side. Oh, and plastic-coated paper might also be a plan, to prevent condensation and general papery sogginess causing a Mission Fail.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    'ere....

    ... what grade of paper we using for V1?

    I'm with the glass vial release method. Release of Gas for High Altitude Castoff... or ReG HAC for short.

  37. Keiran
    Thumb Up

    @By Anonymous Coward Posted Monday 10th August 2009 11:34 GMT

    Think thats the winner right there.... even did a diagram

  38. Geoff Bin In
    Pint

    separation

    While I wasn't into free-flight model aircraft in my yoof, I recall that they had two methods used to trigger a modification in the aerodynamics leading to an enhanced rate of descent. One was a clockwork timer and the other was a burning fuse which passed through a rubber band. The rubber band broke when the burn reached it. The clockwork timer was more accurate, but selecting the length of the fuse appears to have provided adequate accuracy. I suspect that the fuse approach may have some difficulties in our project caused by the lack of oxygen and the cold, which might extinguish the fuse, or fail to break the rubber band, or the rubber band may be sufficiently frozen to retain its shape and hence fail to release our craft.

    Geoff

  39. Stevey
    Thumb Up

    condom, toilet roll & gaffer tape

    Insert a condom into used toilet roll. Inflate the condom, until it is nice and snug, then seal one end with gaffer tape.

    As the air pressure decreases, the condom will inflate, and the tip will push out of the open end of the roll. Position a release switch an appropropriate distance away, and wait for the condom to achieve the appropriate erection...

  40. da3andrew
    Flame

    Release mechanism

    If a weather balloon is being used to launch the spacecraft, then it'll pop automatically when it reaches the highest altitude possible. A single-axis accelerometer (plus a microcontroller to do a bit of processing) will be able to provide an electronic signal indicating when the aircraft changes direction from 'going up' to 'going down'. There's a risk that the balloon pop could damage the spacecraft, so maybe the release should simply be triggered by a countdown timer from launch. Or a barometric sensor (e.g., http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8161) could trigger the release at a given height.

    The release itself could be made from a piece of string tied around/alongside a low-ohm, low wattage resistor. Apply a modest current and the resistor will be set on fire and burn through the string, releasing the aircraft. Further experimentation will be required to see identify what weight of batteries could provide sufficient current. Failing that, I recall an article in the Anarchists Cookbook (or similar publication) about making an ignition device using a diode taped to a match-head. Once enough backward current is applied to the diode it heats up and set's the match alight. But of course both of these assume that there's enough oxygen at release height for a fire-based release mechanism.

    Although not as exciting, a mini solenoid could be an alternative to un-hook the spacecraft from the balloon: e.g., http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx?mode=b&kw=&manu=Dialight+BLP.

    What is the target height for the launch, btw?

  41. Jolyon Ralph
    Thumb Up

    CAA regulations

    How about going out on a boat far enough out of UK airspace and far enough away from major flightpaths that you can use a serious balloon and not worry about weight limits?

    Jolyon

  42. deadlockvictim Silver badge
    Go

    Playmobil Pilot

    Does the Playmobil pilot have to be the real thing or would a coated paper copy of same qualify, given the circumstances?

    <pun type='obligatory'> Oh, the pilot to go down on PARIS </pun>

  43. The Indomitable Gall
    Paris Hilton

    Re: Diminutive Crew?

    @Vulch

    "If I was a PlayMobil figure in El Reg's office I'd be getting worried and looking for escape routes about now..."

    Why? Doesn't every PlayMobil figure look forward to its One Flight In Paris?

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just

    Rub the balloon on something synthetic till your hair stands on end then attach it to the paper plan using the static charge....

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE: Diminutive Crew?

    Noooo. It has to be the notLego™ Terrorist minifig complete with AK47, suicide belt and RPG launcher.

    I'll volunteer mine if necessary.

  46. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    I have done some of this before

    Lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries are useless at low temperatures. There was a lot of laughter here when commentards found out that a mini-sub was powered by a crate full of D batteries. That only had to work down to 0 centigrade. I have not seen batteries quoted for really low temperatures, so you might be looking for some sort of thermos flask for the batteries.

    Looks like you spotted the problem with GSM: at altitude, many cells will be within range. The network operators will not be happy if you broadcast to a dozen cells at once. I have not done APRS, but I suspect it has some of the same challenges for the power supply as GSM. The average power may be reasonable, but the radio needs to take sharp bursts of power. This means you will need short leads and good contacts between the radio and the battery. Some kind person replaced my gold plated folded sheet metal contacts with helical steel springs (inductors with a huge contact resistance). That was sufficient to prevent the GSM module getting the sudden bursts of power it needed.

    For release, I would go test the following in a freezer: Connect the balloon to the decent module with fuse wire and break it with a large current. Go nuts on the current because the fuse wire will get covered in ice. Use multiple methods for deciding when to release: GPS reports target altitude, GPS reports minimum acceptable altitude and consistently descending, time limit and remote control from your radio (you never know - it might still be working).

    Read the instructions for your GPS. Many of them are optimised on the assumption that you must be on the surface of the earth, and that you want the signals that have been reflected off buildings (Reflected signals cause multipath error, but that may be preferable on the ground when the direct signals are blocked). There are often manufacturer specific 'NMEA' commands that will reconfigure a GPS for use at altitude.

    Passive antennas will work at very low temperatures - if your GPS can use a passive antenna. If you have to use an active antenna, check the specs to find out if it will work at low temperatures. Read the real instructions for the antenna. The salesman will tell you what he thinks you want to hear. There are good signals at altitude, and plenty of satellites will be in view, but the kit will be working below the tested temperature range while covered in ice. Many GPS antennas assume they are stuck to the top of a car, and need a ground plane (sheet of metal about 30cm in diameter) to work according to spec (this include plenty of antennas for hand-held GPS devices). Use a coating that repels water: you can get them in spray cans (Often very poisonous. Read the instructions carefully and do not use indoors). Spray all the electronics as well (except the connectors).

    It is safe to assume your GPS and your radio will not work at the same time. If you cut the weight by removing the RF shielding from you GPS, radio or CPU then none of them will work at the same time. Make sure you can send the last __valid__ GPS fix. If the parts work individually, but not when packed together, add small capacitors connecting each connection between modules to ground. If you cannot keep the GPS and radio antennas apart, point the radio antenna's weakest transmission direction at the GPS antennas worst reception direction. The frequencies are very different, but putting a powerful radio transmitter right next to a very sensitive receiver is always asking for trouble. GPS likes short antenna cables - especially if you use a passive antenna. The really thin light weight cable is poorly shielded and will pick up too much signal from everything that can confuse the GPS.

  47. Paris Hilton
    Alert

    PARIS should be a manned mission...

    So let me guess...

    a Playmobil character inserted into PARIS' Crew Utility Node Thingy

    Or perhaps you can use another Cockpit / Box reference...

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Balloon-popping systems

    Might not work very well- you'd have to do a lot of testing to make sure it'd work. Balloons are very thin sheets of rubbery stuff, and at height they'll lose a load of their flexibility- you may even get to the point where it becomes rigid, then when it gets punctured you'll have to wait for it to thaw out before it bursts properly.

    How about a couple of bits of memory metal? GPS calculates height, so when GPS recognises that you're at height it jams a few mA through the metal- heating it and causing it to bend straight again. So you'd have a venus-flytrap style arrangement on the carrier to hold the Vulture 1 in position.

    Alternatively, how about a GPS-switched capacitor & piece of thin copper wire wrapped around a balloon full of mixed hydrogen & oxygen? The balloon could hold a trap door shut, so when the gas is ignited and the balloon bursts the Vulture 1 falls through the trap door.

  49. 7mark7

    Two non-techy tips

    First, do try to pick a dry day.

    Second, ask Phorm for advice on launching something and making it fly. (Go on, I dare ya).

  50. Andus McCoatover
    Thumb Up

    @Kieran

    Right with you on that! Dog-simple! They're the ones that usually work! Minimal extra weight - should work, unless it ices up.

    Camera? Seriously stripped down 'phone. Maybe get live piccies, and the battery could maybe power the GPS also? After all, it aint gonna last long...I still think 'splatdown' rather than 'splashdown' is quite possible, esp. when the thing gets wet, hence the papier maché suggestion.

    Probably need something like a clothes peg* on the other side of the pin for the launch, to prevent premature ejac^H^Hection from PARIS at lift-off.

    Nice one, AC 11:34. Gets my vote, too.

    * OK, for the IT angle, a crocodile clip might be better. Then Maplin, Farnell or RS etc. could sponsor it! YaaaaY!

    I for one welcome our high-flying Playmobil overlords.

  51. Dale Richards
    Go

    Diminutive crew member...

    A bee?

  52. Xris M
    Joke

    @ Paris Hilton

    Vehicular Agents Guaranteed Intergrity Nesting Assembly is a bit more of a mouthful.

  53. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Popping balloon out surely??

    All cunning plans to pop the balloon but surely that's a non starter as dragging the remains of a balloon behind the plane is going to mess up its aerodynamics big time?

  54. MnM
    Grenade

    Banging in the stratosphere

    +1 for gaffer tape, though I'd also like to advocate the use of explosives, weight-permitting. These guarantee a clean and complete, though potentially overzealous, separation. Some of the earlier suggestions may not be explosive enough, leaving Vulture 1 dangling like Paris' new best friend. Adding explosives would remedy this.

    Could car seatbelt pretensioners be remodelled into some kind of explosive bolt?

  55. Anonymous John
    Flame

    Release machanism

    I seem to recall that potassium permanganate, glycerine, and any weak acid will spontaneously combust when mixed. Have the acid travel along a strip of blotting paper towards the other two chemicals, and you have a timer release mechanism.

    <Imagines Vulture 1 coming down burning fiercely>

  56. Lankydude
    Boffin

    Release mechanism

    What's wrong with a simple catch operated by several miles of nylon thread (don't feel compelled to answer that fully)? Few moving parts, lightwieght... you just have to hope nothing flies through it on the way up or the whole project's knackered.

    I'm just an ideas man - I'll leave the intricacies to you lot!

  57. Chris Long

    Expanding syringe

    A more reliable version of the 'bursting balloon' release mechanism would be to use a small plastic syringe, with the needle end sealed. Start with a fixed volume of air, say 1ml, and the plunger should move out a predictable amout with altitude - say to the 5ml mark by 20,000 feet, for argument's sake. Attach a piece of string to the plunger to release a latch at the right altitude, and Bob's your uncle. You might need some sort of very-low-freezing-point grease to make sure it doesn't all freeze up.

  58. raving angry loony

    Goldberg FTW!

    The only obvious choice is a Rube Goldberg device made of paper (and latex)

    At a certain height, the balloon expands enough to nudge the paper wad, which drops down onto the papier-mache lever, which pushes the pin into a second balloon. Upon bursting, this ballon releases the weight tied to the flywheel, which spins up, letting the cardboard tube hanging from it fly outwards and strike the pigeon. Taking flight, the string tied to the pigeon's leg pulls the ...

    and so on.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    (untitled)

    <quote>is just how we can release the Vulture 1 from the helium balloon at a predetermined altitude</quote>

    crossbow

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    for heating of electronic/electrical components

    You need chickens...*

    though in the interests of keeping the nosey RSPCa etc off your back, how about stuffing the gubbins with chicken shed waste.

    The continued biological breakdown of aforesaid chicken shed muck should produce enough heating and be safer than relying on something chemical like quicklime and H2O.

    *look up Blue Peacock

  61. Adam Foxton
    Go

    @Flocke Kroes

    The commercial version of the D-cell powered UoS AutoSub you're referring to was used to develop a smaller version designed for automated riser inspection. The developers of this smaller version were looking at Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries (from LiFeBatt- who also provided the batteries for the electric MEV R2 that I think appeared in El Reg a couple of years ago) shortly before they sacked me, so they should be suitable for any temperatures the Vulture is likely to encounter. They're also better batteries than traditional Li-Ion and Li-Polys.

    @Others talking about tethered systems

    The problem with a tethered system is that the tether has to be able to hold its own weight- and the lifting balloon has to be able to lift the weight of the tether. 4mm Nylon rope is about 0.01136kg/m, so for a relatively low flight-ceiling of 1km you'd be looking at an extra kilo or two- so the bulk of the lifter's lifting capacity will be dedicated to lifting the tether rather than the vehicle. And if you're building a lifter that big you may as well have a pretty complex system.

    A solution proposed by my little brother would be to tie helium balloons to it to hold the weight. You'd need over a cubic meter of helium for every km of nylon tether. Not impossible- it's a party balloon every 100m- but it's very expensive given the height that you'd want this thing to reach. Not to mention making the tether a total pain to reel.

    Additionally, there's the risk that if/when the tether DOES break you've got a few km of rope being blown about in the wind. With 100km or so until you hit space that means that if launched from Dundee the tether could potentially end up hitting Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, etc. And risks being flown through by a plane (all of the cities mentioned have pretty busy airports and heliports except Dundee itself)- or hitched under the dorsal guiding feathers of a pair of unladen european swallows.

  62. Graham Bartlett
    Paris Hilton

    Just thought

    Since it's Paris, would this have a Blonde Box instead of a Black Box?

    (I may be one of the few blokes around who's not bothered looking for the photos/vids, so maybe someone else can confirm whether collar and cuffs do indeed match.)

  63. Owen Milton

    no popping, how about a deployment platform?

    I believe a previous article stated we're not allowed to suggest just popping the balloon.

    Might I suggest looking at some of the glider release for R/C models? They would be about the right weight/size and be an already pre-made and tested system. put the bulk of the electronics and gear for tracking it "going up" in a little unit on the balloon rather than on the plane to keep it's weight to a minimum. That way the deployed assault vehicle will only need enough power (batteries) to keep track of everything on the way down.

    For the sake of economy and recovering the launch platform, you can even have the balloon vent a little of the gas and do a semi-controlled descent, allowing you to plan on reusing the same launch platform for Vulture II next year. Or it can just pop and deploy a parachute.

  64. Charles Osborne

    APRS?

    Association for the Protection of Rural Scotland?

  65. I didn't do IT.
    Boffin

    Plane ideas

    Processor: I like the GumStix form factor; much less power draw than PC-104, also. Includes single board to conserve power/space for peripherals (USB GPS/Camera, Serial YAM - yay!). Of course, Linux FTW! Having this in a mylar (space blanket) lined container severely insulates the electronics, both thermally and against RF.

    Commnication: YAM would allow packet communications with the ground in a compact, low power device. Burst Packet Transmission also allows reduced interference with GPS.

    Batteries: Keeping the battery pack in a Thermos(tm) case keeps temps bearable down to -19C external for an hour (tested it with Walmart thermos and Li-Ion Toshiba battery), so should be plenty good for "normal" operating temps even for Li-Ion batteries, which will keep weight and size down. Having it in the front provides 1) circular fuselage form, 2) proper ballast, and 3) most shock-absorbant part in front for "landings".

    Release: Nichrome wire is the least weight and most reliable. Even at frozen temps (-19C), it will heat itself up to the point where nylon cord melts very quickly, releasing plane if that is what holds it to the balloon. The gumstick can provide the power through a NPN transistor from the audio port - steady tone signal out trips transistor, causing power to dump from battery through nichrome wire and release. 30 seconds is _more_ than enough time.

  66. Solomon Grundy

    Mobile Phone Release

    The model rocket guys have cheap altimeters available that transmit back to Earth. Once Vulture 1 reached the correct altitude you could just call it from a mobile phone and activate the small IED placed on board. A stripped down phone and probably less than 1g of electronically ignited fuse would not add much weight and would guarantee release at the predetermined altitude.

  67. This post has been deleted by its author

  68. Schultz

    Release

    The release mechanism should be the pilot hanging precipitously from the hour hand of a suitable timepiece (think Back to the Future). Remember to correct for MEZ timezone, else flight control in London will be bummed when Paris leaves early.

  69. Adam Foxton
    Go

    Why not PICs?

    A 10-series PIC (say, the 10F222) will work down to -40C, draws under 175µA @ 3V at full 4MHz whack- a single CR2032 coin cell would operate it for a week. This is the sort of tech we should be looking at for the interface between data modem and GPS- orders of magnitude cheaper than most alternatives, simple, infinitely reliable, light, small and incredibly low-power.

    Alternatively we should use a small smartphone to take photos, handle Data and provide a GPS/A-GPS feeds. With GPRS and 3G connectivity you'd even be able to connect to APRS-IS- or just use Google Maps & Latitude to track the thing. I've got one you can use- an HTC Artemis. Just ask if you want it!

    The PIC above (or another similar one) would be able to do RS232/485/422/TTL/I2C/SPI etc comms; there'd not be a problem finding a GPS or GPRS chipset to work with it.

    Whatever system you end up using, commercially bought or custom, you'll want to get it conformally coated or something similar- any liquid water that gets into the system would freeze and expand as the vessel ascends, leading to problems with displaced components, lifted legs, shorts between legs or PCB tracks, etc.

    Is anyone out there thinking about the physical design of the paper plane? There haven't really been any comments about it yet, and that's a pretty important bit of the design...

  70. Fozzy 1
    Alert

    where the Hell

    is Macgyver when you need him.

  71. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lift vehicle, thermal, airframe structure...

    As for naming the lift vehicle/balloon, perhaps "Sheets" would be appropriate, as that's where you'd expect/usually/hope to find PARIS.

    To retain heat, enclose the expendable control package in a large (12"/32cm or more) ball of expanded closed-cell polystyrene foam, then cover the surface with reflective mylar--campers have a "space blanket" which is exactly that, and inexpensive to boot. This will help retain the ambient launch heat, as well as keep the heat released by the electronics, slowing the internal chill. Hang the control package under Sheets, and Vulture 1 under the control package.

    For the airframe structure, rolled tubes of paper can form the airframe, which can then be covered with tissue paper. A light coating of glue on the paper as it's rolled makes it a strong laminate.

    I'd use a small motor to withdraw a pin to release Vulture 1 from Sheets, and a small electric match (as used to launch model rockets) attached to the balloon with tape to scuttle the lifter. The foam ball would cushion the impact on any hapless bystander below. Pull the release pin, wait a few minutes for Vulture 1 to glide away, then pop the Sheets. The extra mylar sheet could be used to make a parachute to slow it a bit more--just drape it over Sheets, no need for fancy release mechanisms.

    netgeek

  72. NeonTeepee
    Paris Hilton

    Technology for technologies sake?

    Take a piece of string that is the length of the height you want to release at attach it to a quick release pin. Hold on to the piece of string when the baloon reaches the required height the string will go taught the pin will pop out the plane will be released. Virtually zero weight and virtually zero chance of going wrong. Remember the (oen company sponsored) effort to find a pen that would right in space, save hundreds of thousands of dollars use a pencil. I know the story behind it but the amusing anecdote is the point here, massively complicated technology should always be checked by a lay person to see of there is a really simple and 'obvious' solution that has a lot less chance of going wrong.

    Often the bloody obvious option is the way to go!

    Paris? Because she is as simple as this solution

    Hope it all goes well

    Good Luck

    Malc

  73. Andus McCoatover

    Launch site

    Surely, Rockall International Airport would be ideal! Not much traffic, I understand...Bird strikes need to be considered, however.

  74. Candy
    Go

    Payload management

    If payload is an issue, why not attach the release mechanism to a second balloon. They can rendezvous at altitude and the one can release 'tother. Especially easy if can be released at the same time.

    If temperature and air pressure are a problem, additional balloons carying a compressor and a heater can also be launched.

    How hard can it be? C'mon, people. These are simple problems with simple solutions.

    Actually, this relatively trivial exercise could serve as a useful testbed for assembling the RSS Feed platform (Register Space Station Failproof Exoatmospheric Engineering Domicile) which will in turn host assembly of the HILTON (High Insertion, Landing in TONbridge) mission planned for Vulture 14.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Put the vulture-1 INSIDE Paris

    Then, when Paris pops her cork, the Vulture can slink away as if nothing had happened.

    Wouldn't that be in character!

  76. Candy
    Coat

    Balloon sourcing

    Have we identified a preferred county-of-origin for the projects' air bags?

  77. Old but bold
    Go

    Altitude trip for El Reg

    Weather baloons expand as they rise, a very simple trip using this factor can release El Reg

  78. Paul Murphy 1

    Chase plane

    I nominate the TSR2, might cost a bit, but it would look very cool :-), maybe a Black Arrow?

    Or the SR71, or Concorde.

    Hold on, I'm seeing a trend here :-( yes I think we are going backwards...

    ttfn

  79. Steve Swann
    Headmaster

    @NeonTeepee

    First off, it's "Write" not "Right" - sorry, but that made me grind my teeth and I had to say something...

    Secondly, did you not read the rest of the comments above before posting? Clearly the "long string" model isn't going to work, due to the weight of the string or the possibility of something running into it. I doubt the CAA would be happy with the plan.

    Furthermore, bursting the balloon (note the TWO L's everyone! Please!) would result in Vulture I dragging the remains of a balloon along with it; hardly aerodynamic!

    And finally, before I take my pedantry, coat and go home, the story about NASA's pen and the Soviets pencil is not true; it's just an urban myth. Look it up on snopes.com.

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