back to article Pirate Bay guilty verdict: Now what?

The four men behind BitTorrent tracker website The Pirate Bay were handed stiff sentences of one year each this morning and ordered to stump up $3.6m in damages to the entertainment industry. The judgment may come as a short, sharp shock for members of the sprawling file sharing community. But the site will almost certainly …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    meh

    always gonna be guilty, you can't beat the machine. But at the same time just as the fall of napster did nothing, the inevitable fall of the pirate bay will do nothing.

  2. Steven Jones

    Wong Ship

    If they were operating from Somalia I could understand the pirate boat. As it is, surely a bunch of Swedes marauding across international frontiers with the aim of aiding and abetting the looting of foreign goods should have chosen a long boat as their emblem. I'm sure that the Rover one is available if they fancing pirating something.

    Of course, just like the Vikings, there will be some who consider consider these guys to be misunderstood, colourful heroes who were just dealing out to the wealthy what they deservered. Not everybody will see them in that light...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    stuff some foreign beak...

    ..who cares what some judge in Uppsala or wherever says? BT is so widespread in so many countries it makes no difference what Bjorn the Beak proclaims, and thus the law makes a mockery of itself.

    (which means I'm going to continue torrenting what I want, when I want, until the pricing from the media companies becomes realistic and fair, games aren't drm'd to the point of collapse, and commercial actually works and is worth the price the manufacturers expect you to pay for it. If they didn't rip us off in the first place we wouldn't go d/ling hookey copies)

  4. Mike Smith
    Happy

    Doncha just luuurve this guy's innocence

    "Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier, Google, which has many pros and many cons associated with it, will cooperate if we ask them."

    Riiiiiiigghhht - so the world's biggest and richest search engine will cripple their results just because of a legal verdict that (a) hasn't had its final appeal and (b) has no power outside the EU.

    Of course they will. How silly of me to assume anything else. They'll co-operate if asked. This nice man said so.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The guy does know that...

    .. hes given the pirate bay ammunition

    "We also asked Kennedy if the IFPI would consider going after Google following today's potentially landmark verdict.

    "The comparison with Google is amateurish," he said. "Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier.""

    If they prove that false , and actually wouldn't be hard to do, they can sue him for libel and use that in the appeal, WP mate!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    This will run and run

    I find myself somewhat in the middle over this case. On the one hand I agree with the record industry, in that copyrighted content should be paid for, as it pays the salaries of the artists concerned.

    On the other hand, I object to the huge percentage of income that the record companies keep for themselves rather than passing on to the artists, and do feel its about time they started to embrace modern technology rather than fight it. Outmoded sales models won't last, and though they can prop up their income by prosecuting pirates, a revised distribution method would be a better long term plan.

    However, I find Engstrom's comments about 'destroying the internet' by trying to impose laws on it juvenile and somewhat missing the point. The Internet is just a communications medium - it is not some sort of lawless frontier where you should be able to do what you want. Transactions over the Internet need to be regulated to ensure rights aren't infringed. How would he feel if he bought something online only to not have the goods turn up, and then have no recourse to the law to recover his money?

    One slight irony though is the recent history of Metallica. After sueing the ar$e off Napster and its users for illegal distribution of its music, they went on to record 'St.Anger', an album which was in itself a disincentive to pirates because it was so unremittingly awful and not worth wasting bandwidth on. Their latest album 'Death Magnetic' is far better fare, but the CD is of such dreadful sound quality, that the only way to get a listenable version is to troll BitTorrents to find a copy of it ripped from Guitar Hero.

    Paris, becuase she wouldn't repel boarders (or possibly only ones with scruples).

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So?

    So, will TPB be up long enough for coders to replace it with something else?

    I'm betting on a big fat "yep"

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nice to see a conviction

    We'll see if justice is really served or if these criminals go free on a technicality.

  9. Barney Carroll
    Flame

    "Google will cooperate"? Right.

    Obviously YouTube's recent absolution makes them think they're slowly consuming the universe.

    As for LInX: “This verdict is vindication of our belief to pursue the infringers through the court and not hold intermediates such as internet service providers responsible for the actions of third parties.”

    Bullshit. This is entirely about prosecuting intermediaries, not the infringers.

  10. blackworx
    Boffin

    Tsk

    "But, if the trial would have taken place in Blighty..."

    Try: "If the trial HAD TAKEN place in Blighty..."

  11. Pierre
    Pirate

    Yeah, sad day indeed

    Regardles of whether one approves of TPB , erm, "philosophy", this is bad. Very poor prosecution case, no understanding of the underlying tech or principles whatsoever, this case is not going to solve any of the perceived "problems" of the recording industry. If anything, it will trouble the water a bit more. There could -should?- have been a reflexion on IP in the modern world, but all we saw was "they stole from us m'lud. We can't prove it and we don't know what they did or how they did it, but they are bad, honest m'lud, believe me". Pathetic.

    Bad justice is worst than no justice at all. In this case, I reckon the naughty IP-infringing will not decrease but strive as a reaction to a trial that was so much of a comedy that everyone involved will perceive it as unjust (no matter the final verdict, the MPAA, RIAA et al. lost all the benefits of winning by bringing up an utterly unresearched and ridiculous case in the first place).

    Pirate as that's what cool kids do. In Somalia.

  12. Benny
    Thumb Up

    Hmmm

    "The comparison with Google is amateurish," he said. "Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier, Google, which has many pros and many cons associated with it, will cooperate if we ask them."

    Ok, ask them then. Im sure they'll rush to remove all offending material from the searches and the caches.

    One could argue that it was setup to enable the distribution of non copyright material easier, and it has been abused by a few. ( see many ) Kinda like the whole guns dont kill people, people do

  13. Codge
    Black Helicopters

    Double plus ungood?

    > This verdict is vindication of our belief to pursue the infringers through the court and not hold intermediates such as internet service providers responsible for the actions of third parties.

    By that logic, The Pirate Bay are an intermediary shurely? Thereby not responsible for the actions of third parties.

    ?petard. own, his, by, Hoist

    Winch me up Scotty. Things are about to get nasty!

  14. Mat
    Dead Vulture

    Off topic but please...

    Will someone tell Kelly Fiveash that this is a .co.uk site and therefore we'd like our currency conversions in sterling thank you very much. Yes, do tell us how many kronor or whatever the originating currency is, but then give us the amount in pounds (or you know what, I'm happy to accept Euros). But dollars? Beggars belief. Oh and kronor please - not Swedish Crowns!

    Not just a moan about this story but this one:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/17/pirate_bay_loses_trial/

    and this one:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/16/pirate_bay_server_museum_artefact/

    all by the same author. Have I missed something? As they are all pirate-related stories why not gives us the amount in Doubloons? Just as meaningful as dollars in this case.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Miscarriage of Justice obviously

    How did piratebay breach copyright?

    Why not give jail time to producers of CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, DAT tapes, compact cassettes (am I showing my age there?), MP3 players?

    Ludicrous.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @ AC

    ""Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier.""

    If they prove that false , and actually wouldn't be hard to do"

    Dude, the site is called the PIRATE bay. It's going to be quite hard to *prove* that the site was *not* set up to aid so-called "pirates". The reason we have judges in this world is because they can quickly eliminate stupid arguments like yours by invoking common bloody sense.

  17. mark c
    Black Helicopters

    The Pirate bay conviction

    The Pirate bay conviction, just shows the judicial system either dose not understand what they are ruling on or they are in the pockets of the RIAA etc.

    If pirate bay can be convicted of providing a means to allow people to break copyright then I can’t wait for when the directors of Colt and Smith n Weston get convicted of murder. For supplying equipment that is knowingly used to kill people.

  18. Peter Reynolds

    Lazy Entertainment Industry Deserves What It Gets

    Professor Carrier has it right. It's only the likes of Pirate Bay that have dragged the entertainment industry, kicking and screaming, into actually providing online services that consumers want. Ultimately, am I now going to be prosecuted for lending a Blu-ray disc, a CD or a book to a friend?

    I recommend The Pirate Bay and www.newtorrents.info and www.thebox.bz.

    http://www.leadingedgepersonaltechnology.com/?p=219

  19. frymaster

    re:"stuff some foreign beak"

    (which means I'm going to continue torrenting what I want, when I want, until the pricing from the media companies becomes realistic and fair, games aren't drm'd to the point of collapse, and commercial actually works and is worth the price the manufacturers expect you to pay for it. If they didn't rip us off in the first place we wouldn't go d/ling hookey copies)

    self-serving hypocrasy. "It's alright to rip these people off, because they rip people off!". Er... no it isn't. Either being a rip-off merchant is OK (in which case you should have said "I'll bittorrent because I'm a cheap git scumbag") or it's not, in which case you just DON'T BUY THE STUFF. Apart from anything else, you're convincing publishers that there's a decent market for their stuff if only they could write some better DRM.

    And for myself? Yeah, I use bittorrent, and I'm a cheap git scumbag. But at least I know it, and at least I'm not trying to claim some kind of moral right to rip people off.

  20. The Fuzzy Wotnot

    Too little, too late!

    At the end of the day it will make very little difference, big song and dance, let the **AA have their day in the sun but even they know it's nothing more than a simple PR exercise which might frighten say 2-3% BT users off the internet, but in the end will suddenly make more people curious to find out what this Pirate Bay thing is all about and does this torrent thing work anywhere else?

    Hell I know non-techie mums round my kid's primary school who boast what movies they got for nothing off the internet last night!

    You have your day in the sun, but this is too little too late!

  21. Martin

    corrected for you

    'The comparison with Google is amateurish," he said. "Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier, Google, which has many lawyers and more money than us would kick our arses all over the american courts

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh wow.

    "This verdict is vindication of our belief to pursue the infringers through the court and not hold intermediates such as internet service providers responsible for the actions of third parties.”

    Intermediates in this case is defined by how close to London you are.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Good result

    Won't do any good but for once the Law is not an ass. Should have locked them up for longer just for being wankers, the arrogant little shits!

  24. Yes Me Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Computer Science dictum ruled invalid defence

    There's a well known dictum that "Any problem in Computer Science can be solved by adding a level of indirection." Up to now, I think, most legal judgments in most jurisdictions have accepted this as a defence. Storing copyright material without permission is illegal; storing a pointer to copyright material doesn't need permission. As far as I can tell from the reports I've seen, the Pirate Bay Four have been convicted and sentenced for storing pointers. This is serious. Quite apart from the ludicrous injustice of jail time for this "crime", it's a very dangerous precedent. Imagine the ramifications, especially if it's applied recursively. Anyone who has a web page of any kind that points to a page that points to a page that points... to some copyright material is at risk.

    The Swedish judges obviously missed out on Computer Science 101.

  25. Paul

    Guns don't kill people...

    Wabbits do! Summon tha police! WOO WOO WOO!

  26. Martyn Wright
    Pirate

    Google, Yahoo, MSN?

    People mention Google as having access to the same copyrighted material, but what about Yahoo and MSN? MSN is the one I find most ironic as Microsoft have been one of the companies that have complained about TPB in the first place, yet they also allow you to search for copyrighted material in torrent form.

    Once the appeal is heard by a tech-savvy judge, they'll be found innocent (hopefully).

  27. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Pirate

    Some thoughts

    Situation(hypothetical)

    My windows XP disc is borked and I want to re-install the OS, but I cannot buy another since M$ have decided not to sell it anymore.

    who do I turn to for a copy?

    Ok lets d/l an illegal copy off PB and install it.

    BUT I have a valid licence key for windows Xp so therefore I'm not breaking copyright

    But what about the record companies/movie companies?

    If they'd brought out decent file sharing software which would be locked to their site, along with a reasonable pricing regime to cover the cost of the server, storage, and associated other infrastructure with a small profit margin and a title showing how much goes to the artists, people would have had no need to go looking for pirated stuff and instead the record co's would be raking in even more money

    Unless they are sure that we would'nt want to buy today's mass produced pap.......

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think that they may have had more chance

    if they hadn't called the site The PIRATE Bay.

    If they had called it something unrelated to piracy then I believe they may have gotten away with it.

    I know if I had been sitting in that courtroom, i'd be thinking their intent was obvious from the name.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: "Google will cooperate"

    I'm sure they will, its not as though it will cost them much...

    "

    The Pete Waterman composition 'never gonna give you up' as performed by Rick Astley has been viewed on YouTube almost 150 million times.

    The payout from YouTube for this via PRS has been approximately £11.

    "

    - so in round terms every 100,000 views of a music video is worth 1p to the artist(s).

    [ or, if you're so inclined, every 100,000 illegal downloads of a video available on YouTube costs the artist 1p ]

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    The real surprise...

    What is surprising about the veredict is not that it was guilty, but that it was reached after such a poor and pitiable prosecution with a bunch of bad arguments, which makes it all seem like it was indeed a political trial.

    The best evidence for the assistance of copyright infringement was provided by the TBP guys themselves by making the site so pirate-friendly by creating direct categories for copyrighted TV shows and movies, running their "Oscar-specials" and endorsing known uploaders with coloured skulls, for example. If they had kept the site more neutral and emphasized the searching and user sharing aspect of it (instead of the "Download music, movies, software games!" title, for example), it would have been more difficult to regard them as significantly different than Google.

    The disturbing fact is, however, that AFAIK, the prosecution made no emphasis of these aspects and went on to make a fool of itself with stupid arguments (like the "one download - one lost sale" fallacy) and STILL managed to "win". This means that either the judge (jury?) convinced him/herself independently on his/her own or there was some significant transfer of money under the table.

    Let's hope the appeal goes better. I hate the copyright tyrants as much as anyone else.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Sue everyone

    The BBC link to the pirate bay. Therefore they too are aiding in infringment. Proof; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8003799.stm under related links.

    Sue the media for improving their presence on the web. their SEO, and so forth. TPB have not broken any Swedish law, and the fact remains that this is trial political and unjust as the Swedish politicians lubricate their backsides for the Americans to violate their citizens residing and obiding by the laws set upon them.

    So, we must therefore bring to trial natives in the Amazon for canabalism, places in the far east for under age relations, or many others for polygamy. The verdict is as atrociouss as the law and those who are there to uphold it laughable and aged.

    I don't pirate anything, but I stand with TPB.

    Paris, because she's been screwed just as hard.

  32. Matthew
    Thumb Down

    Meh

    In the end it will just be like kazaa or napster. there is always another waiting to take its place

    What really gets me though is the way they measure copyright infringement. I mean if its free your going to download FAR more than if you have to pay for something. therefore, its stupid measuring the downloads etc and saying "we have list this much", because most of the people downloading wouldn't have bought it if it cost actual money.

    .

  33. Remy Redert

    @Yes Me

    The important part here appears to be intent to assist in committing a crime.

    If you link to a DDL website with the intent to make it easier for someone to download illegal content off that website, you are committing a crime. Conversely, if you link (directly or indirectly) to that website as, for example, an example of how (not) to code a website, you would be in the clear.

    Similarly, Google provides links to lots and lots of things. It's set up to provide links for everything. The fact that some people (try to) abuse it to get copyrighted materials does not make Google break any laws. However a lot of torrent sites are stuffed with copyrighted materials and their aim is to make it easier for people to get these torrents and hence the copyrighted materials. If they made an effort to filter out the illegal stuff (Or simply had a hell of a lot more legal material!), they wouldn't have a legal problem.

  34. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
    Boffin

    I love Paris in the springtime

    "I find myself somewhat in the middle over this case. On the one hand I agree with the record industry, in that copyrighted content should be paid for, as it pays the salaries of the artists concerned."

    First cuckoo of the spring. Well done that man!

  35. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
    Paris Hilton

    natives in the Amazon for canabalism

    You want us to sue fish for eating fish?

    WTF?

    I think this reading the comments section has gone too far.

    Night all.

  36. Doug Glass
    Go

    The Fat Lady ..

    ... has not just warmed up, she started to sing. That light at the end of the tunnel has bars in front of it. Steel bars and I don't mean the kinds that sell beer.

  37. Adrian Esdaile
    Flame

    Wow, big surprise

    Well, knock me down with a feather!

    A large, obscenely rich, entertainment-industry funded bulldog steamrollered a small, independent party in court?

    Next you'll be saying that courts are just an opportunity for the very wealthy to flex their muscle when screaming & spittle doesn't work.

    After that, you'll be claiming that ALL civil courts are fundamentally corrupt and pander like lap-dogs to the rich (ie, their shower-room mates).

    Ah, but that would be contempt of court!

    The courts aren't even worth my contempt, I save it for more worthy institutions.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    @ all the "they called themselves PIRATE Bay" comments

    The use of the name does not make them guilty, any more than calling myself Jack the Ripper makes me guilty of something. The "it shows intent" argument is bullshit too. If I publish a website about the various methods used by serial killers to evade detection over the years (like the FBI site, for example), it does not mean I am guilty of anything, nor does it mean I am trying to assist serial killers.

    The verdict was all about money and politics.

    If you think any differently, you're a naive fool.

  39. The Fuzzy Wotnot
    Stop

    @meh

    Exactly right! Alright Napster buckled, but they had an easier model to break, but in the end we know how effective shutting down napster was at curtailing online "copyright infringement"!!!

    So this story hits the mainstream media and what's the first thing that happens? Joe Public puts "pirate bay" into Google and sees that stuff is available for nothing. Does this this torrent thingy work anywhere else? I search for "torrent sites" and more free places come up? Great! As I have said before, I know mums round at my kid's school who know how to use torrents to get movies but couldn't care less about anything else a computer can do!

    No such thing as bad publicity and I wish to personally congratulate the law on raising the numbers of people who will now join in the torrent scene.

    That's where it's going, it will not stop, this will make no difference and after the TPB "owners" have done their 2 weeks in prison, 'cos that's all it will come down to, they will continue to run their servers as though nothing has changed.

    Personally I just wish that the amount of money wasted on this could have been put to better use, like catching some of the real scum out there that blight lives and make life hell for some people, rapists, muggers, child abusers, etc!

  40. michael

    my little points

    1. the trail seames to me to be a it of a farce with the changing f the harges and the witnesses admiting they did not know what the site did ti seames silly

    2. @pepol who go after the name "the pirate bay" I have a tool called hijack this it sounds like a hackng tool but it is a anti hacking tool on the bases of there name should they be procuated? simulay one of the bigest anoynces in my work in a program called xp anti virus 2009 should they be let of cos they called it ANIT virus?

    3. I just bought a hd tv and a blu-ray player and I went to every shop in my town and could not find what I wanted in hi def at any price 5 mins on a torent site ( not TPB) and I got 48 hours of exactley the sort of hd programs I wanted to watch and instructions on how to make them play thrught my computer on my new tv or on my xbox360 on my new tv makes you think (3 mounth later I still have not used my blu-ray plaer)

  41. Andus McCoatover
    Coat

    Doubloons??

    Er, surely you mean 'pieces of 8'? (Squawk!)

    Better to put figures in the most widely circulated currency.

    The Euro.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/18338034-95ec-11db-9976-0000779e2340.html?nclick_check=1

    Mine's the one with a few cents in the pocket. Euro-cents, natch.

  42. Dan
    Black Helicopters

    Google:

    "Google, which has many pros and many cons associated with it, will cooperate if we ask them."

    Well, have you asked them? They have not removed all results. I can find a pointer to just about any {foo} by searching for "{foo} torrent".

    Since you have not asked them, why have you prosecuted TPB? One difference is that TPB folks have a nationality, religion, and race, while Google, being a company, does not.

    The RIAA and MPAA's treatment of piracy facilitators is therefore based on nationality, religion, and/or race. Proof: Two groups, TPB co-founders and Google, have both performed substantially identical acts. The group of nationality, religion, and race has been repeatedly harassed, and has now been prosecuted. The other has not.

    I'm not on the side of pirates, I'm on the side against the RI Ass. of A.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Sue everyone

    it's called balanced reporting, you ass, whereby your news source gives you sufficient information to inspect the evidence for yourself and draw your own conclusions, rather than ramming a the thick veiny cock of a biased agenda down your throat. Further, the BBC is linking to TPB's front page, which has precisely no links to any infringing material. Whether you choose to type something in the search box and follow the rabbit hole is entirely up to you.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    re: "storing a pointer to copyright material doesn't need permission"

    Pointers are evil. When mis-used they can cause insidious memory corruption, systemic instability and general collapse of ordered behaviour.

    They should have been given 10 years....

  45. Winkypop Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I'd leave a comment but....

    .....I have about 12 torrents on the go, I'm copying a bunch of DVDs and I'm ripping my CD collection to MP3.

    So much free content, so little time.

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    About the comparison with Google etc

    I can find torrents with Google, like with TPB. But I cannot use a torrent client and Google alone to download what the torrents "points" to, but I can do that via TPB, can't I?

    Doesn't the torrent tracker "hide" the fact that TPB doesn't store the content directly, that from the client's perspective, TPB does store it by using the users local storage? (Virtualizes the storage)

    In addition, as others point out, Google probably wouldn't answer letters from copyright holders in the same spirit like TPB does:

    http://static.thepiratebay.org/dreamworks_response.txt

    http://thepiratebay.org/legal

    IMNSHO, these guys behave so arrogant and totally out of touch with reality that it is hard to believe that many people support them.

  47. Rapacity
    Paris Hilton

    Spot the difference

    PIMP...MUSIC LABEL...........MUSIC LABEL...PIMP.

    Both groom impressionable (usually) young people for work,

    both ply their staff with affection,

    both run protection rackets,

    both over control their staff to the point of limiting their lives,

    both severely punish and are vindictive to non-payers,

    both take a huge cut of their staff's earnings,

    both, many would say, "own" their staff as opposed to hire them,

    both severely dislike competition...

    I could go on but I wont. There's only one difference and its a legal one. Can you spot it?

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    hmm

    "The Pirate Bay has cost the legitimate economy by taking away revenue for content creators, reducing tax revenue and possibly even costing jobs at these firms.”

    I think The Pirate Bay hasn't cost legitimate economy much as the sales of CD-R's, DVD-R's, etc would have gone up by 1000's, so its move just moved where the revenue was going :)

    I would be that Stupid DRM has cost the economy more as people dont want to buy music with DRM that will only allow them to play 1 or 2 devices

    I want to download a track that I could have and listen to on my PC, My laptop, my mobile, play on my car CD player and play on portable MP3 player

    Therefore am forced to either remove the DRM or finding the MP3 file else where

  49. Paul Delaney
    Coat

    More Vinyl?

    Cheaper than a court case...

    Download that!

  50. theotherone

    bastards

    bastards!

    The Pirate Bay stands for freedom of information, and the people behind it are heroes of the digital era's civil rights movement .....

    The people will prevail you greedy corporate fascist fucks .....

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tor?

    Websites like piratebay should be set up as hidden services on the Tor network so nobody knows who runs them and so they can't be taken down.

  52. Alan Mackenzie
    Linux

    Where's Lewis Carroll when we need him?

    This thing's absolutely barmy, stark raving mad.

    Quite aside from the philosophical question as to what degree of control discontent creators (YUCK!) should retain over their readers listeners and viewers, this just won't fly.

    There are two workable ways to go:

    (i) You keep a log of EVERYTHING downloaded by each internet connection and send a bill for everything which was copyright to the downloader; or

    (ii) You make an "internet license" obligatory, much as a TV license is, and divide the money collected amongst the composers, performers, film makers etc.

    The British government would clearly love (i). Everybody else would accept (ii). Really, how difficult can that be to implement when people start behaving like adults? People managed it when radio came in.

  53. amanfromMars Silver badge

    Prepare for ....... Engagement.

    " Paris, because she's been screwed just as hard." ... By Anonymous Coward Posted Friday 17th April 2009 23:52 GMT

    And knows how to enjoy and driver it for her personal, model advantage? The first battle in a war is always of no consequence as anyone who has ever started a war has always lost ..... and Man is such a Dolt as never to have learned the lesson..... the Prime Idiot in the Amazon Virgin Forest .

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Please take your foot out of my face

    Is that horrible advertising block right in the middle of the text going to stay here?

    Because if it is... I'm not.

  55. Chika
    Paris Hilton

    @Mike Smith

    ""Whereas The Pirate Bay was set up to make piracy easier, Google, which has many pros and many cons associated with it, will cooperate if we ask them."

    Riiiiiiigghhht - so the world's biggest and richest search engine will cripple their results just because of a legal verdict that (a) hasn't had its final appeal and (b) has no power outside the EU."

    Actually, if you read between the lines, what he is actually saying goes something like this:

    "We haven't got the bottle or the money to sue the companies behind the search engines on our own soil even though our argument amounts to a censure on all forms of linkage to copyright material, but we can bully a few obscure folk in a country far away,"

    More or less.

    The thing is that we are caught between extremes; the big conglomerates who want to protect their perceived right to fleece every poor farty with no comeback and the various folk who want to open everything up in a kind of internet anarchy. Until the two sides actually get together and talk rather than butt heads, this is just an example of many similar actions to come.

    Paris. Spot the boobs.

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    Oh look

    Microsoft are aiding and abetting illegal distribution of software.

    http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista+torrent&go=&form=QBLH

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    Get a grip

    I'm getting rather bored with everyone whining on about how torrents and stuff are a reaction to high music prices. We just want something for nothing, its the long and the short of it.

    Of course these Swedes were guilty - we all know piracy is illegal and just trying to be clever about it was never going to stand up in court! Actually, they are smug g*ts and have annoyed me now and I hope they get a nice big friendly cell mate to look after them. Remember lads, he's not raping you, he's just making a protest about the price of internet pr0n.

  58. Danger Mouse
    Coat

    Criminal Case

    As the prosecution lawyers in this case were employed by the copyright holders surely this is a civil case?, so how the funk can they get jail time?, surely there should have been a criminal case first, with the prosecution employed by the Swedish version of the crown. I know this for fucking sure, I'm never going back to Sweden for my hols no matter how fit their women are. Just goes to show you that you can't trust a country that didn't pick a side in WW2.

    Pass the filthy Columbo mac

  59. Damien Thorn
    Paris Hilton

    well...

    First they call the site "pirate bay" What did they mean by that, were they expecting there user group to be landlubber filesharers? Of course not, the site was named pirate bay for the torrents it contained. So thats the first mistake they made.

    We were not at the trial, so we have no idea what arguments were made for or against pirate bay, other than they got a jail term imposed for piracy.

    Holding a torrent for opensuse linux is legal, holding a torrent uploaded by a member of the public - irresponsible.

    So apart from calling yourself pirate bay, holding links to copyright material, stupid yes, criminal, well the court said it was, because they "aided" the distribution of illegal files.

    Basically they dont have the money to win against the copyright clowns, A highly paid lawyer(vulcher) would have argued they were immature irresonsible people who tried to control pirate bay but its popularity prevented them from doing so as MR JOE PUBLIC kept uploading links to there content, as quick as pirate bay would remove 1 link, 3 more users posted.

    Pirate bay was a victim of its own success, as 99% of the content is used by bona fide companies to distribute open source software, the abuse by multiple home users was an unexpected problem, and in such high numbers it presented an unsolvable problem.

    Then we get back to the name, pirate bay. Which means that defence is doomed.

    paris, because her knickers wouldnt hold water either.

  60. dodgyedgy
    Jobs Horns

    Who are the REAL crims...

    @Benny - you got it wrong mate... its "Guns dont kill people, RAPPERS do.."

    And its not the labels that take the Majority of the sales, its the Distros and the Retailers. The retailer generally takes 50% of an MP3 sale, the the Distro takes around 20% then the usualy deal with indies is a 50/50 profit share. Its the retailers who are the criminals.

  61. This post has been deleted by its author

  62. Tim Roberts
    Gates Horns

    the fine?

    Regardless of the guilty verdict, has anyone stopped to consider the fine? 32m ......even at Zimbabwe's exchange rates that is nothing short of insane, if for no other reason that it will be impossible to pay.

    Billy cos he could afford the fine

  63. Steve-SCB

    Wanted to watch a video I just bought ...

    Wanted to watch my new DVD, but its tricked out so it won't play on a laptop that has a DVD writer. So what option do I have, the only way I can access the material I've paid for is to go get a torrent. Next time perhaps I could just skip the purchase part of the transaction and save myself the trouble. Whilst the media publishers are being so restrictive about how I can use their overpriced (defective?) goods, TPB are offering me a public service. So I'll not de buying any more media from ITV, not worth the hassle, a bit like Sony. Mmm whats on the Internet tonight dear ...

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Flame on, el Reg

    "The comparison with Google is amateurish"

    Did John Kennedy just call you lot amateurs? I'd sue him for that...

  65. asdf
    Thumb Down

    great time to be a lawyer I guess

    The only people that will benefit in the short and long term with this legal action are the scum sucking lawyers that are making hundreds of dollars an hour. Anybody else notice how the laws are becoming more the richest entity that spends the most on the lawyers is right, truth be damned. Espeically true for copyright/patent/IP cases. Funny how that works, I guess, when in most countries it is the lawyers that make the laws (majority of politicians at least in USA have law degrees). Sigh.

  66. Matthew Hale
    Thumb Up

    Spot on Martin.. .

    Well re-worded ;)

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time for prison

    If they've been convicted they should go to prison like every other convicted criminal.

  68. Steven Davison
    Pirate

    Of course they did...

    "The Swedish judges obviously missed out on Computer Science 101."

    Of course they did... they are Judges, not Computer Scientists.

    Unfortunately, the judges were probably in training a while back now, and may not have had direction on how this kind of technology works. It will take time to catch up, and I hope it does, as the people who created TPB shouldn't be going to jail.

    I agree with the idea that you can't blame the manufacturer for the actions of the user... like with Guns, Knives... or Roads even... (isn't it funny that kids get killed on roads everyday... yet no one takes the people who put the roads there in the first place to court???)

    I think the Entertainment industry needs to look at the people doing the sharing in the first place. The people who actually break the law by sharing media. This all seems that it's too hard work to find the real criminals, so we'll go after someone else instead.

    I agree that in many cases the media is overpriced, but that doesn't give you the right to steal it... Would you steal a car because you couldn't afford it? (I know at least one person will say 'yes' to that question... but my argument doesn't care about you :P)

    If people want the industry to change, vote with your feet and buy media that you feel is worth it. Go see Shows or support independent artists, whatever, just don't buy music at all, listen to the radio... thats free!

    The industry is, at the end of the day, only out to make money, so if you don't buy what they are selling, they will have to find new ways to sell to you. Maybe a decent Internet distribution model, or a clever licensing system... who knows, but they will only develop it if they stop making money, and they can't get your money an other way (i.e taking you to court for stealing it)

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @mark c

    Firstly guns have sporting and hunting uses, secondly killing people isn't _always_ illegal.

    For example measures to rid the world of stupid, ill thought out, vacuous arguments (Such as yours) would raise the average IQ level and so improve the quality of life for the rest of society.

  70. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  71. elderlybloke
    Gates Horns

    Re - Sue everyone

    I believe it was pressure from USA (Bastion of Freedom and Democracy) that caused the Swedes to act on behalf of USA media moguls .

    Might is right still. ( Reference - Iraq )

  72. jon
    Pirate

    Google Ahoy

    Movie - The Core (2003) run time 129 min

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3103880487117659001

    Been up for months, page rank is excellent and most should find the link in the first page of results for the rubric "The Core". Casino Royale, Pulse and others are all easily found.

    If merely providing links to copyrighted material is a crime then Google should be doubly slapped for supply "no questions asked" video hosting as well.

  73. Stef

    Context

    The TPB 3 have been sentenced more harshly than two youths who beat a gay guy to death.

    If you don't wish to fund this kind of thing then don't buy from major labels.

  74. Steven Jones

    @Yes Me

    Yet another stupid remark which thinks the narrow logical rules applying to IT technology somehow carry over into law. Read the editorial conclusion - the judgement wasn't against anybody pointing to a site contravening copyright law either innocently or to support an articles (as the BBC did). It was a judgement against a business model that was predicated on the exploitation of copyright breaches. The argument that the site was there as a general purpose directory for innocent use of file sharing was fatally undermined by two things. First the stupid arrogance of calling it "Pirate" Bay and, secondly, because if lacked any means of taking down links which breached copyright. Indeed the only reason the site was popular was that it was largely used for streams of copyrighted material. These four made money from this business model (not necessary for a conviction of course, but no doubt a contributory factor to the sentence).

    So can people finally stop equating eBay, Google, BBC and so on links to this case. It just tends to confirm your own loose contact with reality...

  75. Tony

    @AC

    'Dude, the site is called the PIRATE bay. It's going to be quite hard to *prove* that the site was *not* set up to aid so-called "pirates".'

    You'd think that wouldn't you? But then expertsexchange were no help at all with my gender realignment surgery...

  76. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    What I think of them

    Just goes to prove, if you have enough money you can buy anything. It has been years since I have gone to the movies/bought a cd/bought a DvD for one simple reason: Everything being put out is utter garbage. Make something worth buying and I'll buy it. Until then, take your imaginary "profit loss" and shove it. I said GOOD DAY SIR.

  77. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    Meanwhile

    Meanwhile in other News......

    The Irish Broadcaster RTE station 2FM has been criticised for selling music downloads on its new 2FM website that cannot be used on iPods. Launched at a cost of €230,000 (presumably to the Irish taxpayer as RTE receives a significant portion of it's income from a licence fee). The site offers listeners tracks heard on the station for 99c. However the majority of downloads sold from the site include DRM that prevent the music being played on iPods and Macs.

    http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/19/rte-gets-it-wrong-with-new-music-downloads-which-d/

    RTE defended the system, saying it was "doing what record labels will allow us to"

    No doubt the MAFIAA would like people to pay for the music a second time for their iPods.

    Well done the MAFIAA, another self inflicted wound.

    No wonder people continue to download DRM free music.

    How long before the tide comes in fully and drowns the King Canute's in the MAFIAA.

  78. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    and?

    "Dude, the site is called the PIRATE bay. It's going to be quite hard to *prove* that the site was *not* set up to aid so-called "pirates". The reason we have judges in this world is because they can quickly eliminate stupid arguments like yours by invoking common bloody sense."

    and? by the name it could have more to do with peg legs or the ones of the coast of africa!

    or do all sites that mention pirates also infringe copyright?

    "It's going to be quite hard to *prove* that the site was *not* set up to aid so-called "pirates"."

    Again, the site was set up to aid FILE SHARING, FILE SHARING != piracy , but you see it as such.

  79. Peter Page

    "What If" merchants getting tedious now.

    I'm tiring of the absolutist analogies. e.g. "(The BBC) too are aiding in infringment", "...can’t wait for when the directors of Colt and Smith n Weston get convicted of murder", "...what about Yahoo and MSN".

    The convictions were on the basis that copyright infringement was core to the site's business model. (Colt don't directly locate specific victims for murderers and hand them a loaded gun.)

    Same goes for "judge didn't understand the tech". eg "no understanding of the underlying tech", "Once the appeal is heard by a tech-savvy judge, they'll be found innocent" I recall getting equally bored a few years back with people claiming smugly that bmp/jpg format photographs of illegal subjects weren't photographs because "they're just noughts and ones". That little utopia for armchair lawyers didn't last long either.

    @Yes Me: "Imagine the ramifications, especially if it's applied recursively" Yes. If. But it's not going to happen. Is it?

    I don't mind the fun of discussing how legal frameworks are applied and adapted to rapid technological change etc., but (a) hasn't this been done to death? and (b) these people were running a business that relied on encouraging and directly aiding the mass theft of copyrighted material. No matter how many loopholes you think can be wriggled through, do you seriously think letting this behaviour carry on unhindered is any good for the world in general and artists in particular?

    (And, yes, music industry own worst enemy. Boo hiss etc etc. Yes, annoying when some stuff you want is expensive (hey, here's an idea. Instead of just stealing it like a petulant toddler, do something else that you can afford - borrow a book from your local library, for example. And give it back again! It's fun!). Also I'm not an NRA stooge so please don't think I'm bigging up weapons manufacture.)

  80. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    the funniest thing ...

    is that I would guess >50% (i.e. more than half) of people who do "torrent", do so, not because of price, primarily but for other reasons :

    1) material otherwise not released (very old TV shows)

    2) they are catching up on stuff they couldn't be bothered videoing in the 1st place

    3) they are viewing US-releases in real-time (as opposed to the 6+ months lag before shows hit the UK)

    4) (similar to 1) download foreign shows not shown on UK TV

    and would happily *pay*, if there were a legal avenue to obtain such materials.

    The situation is similar to the pot-noodle one, Ben Elton described in "Gasping" ... the big media cos are missing out on an opportunity to generate revenue where none existed.

  81. Nick Askew
    Pirate

    Greed

    There seems to be two general arguments here. Firstly is it right or wrong to steal other people’s material (software, music, or video). The use of the word steal probably tells you which side of the fence I sit on. The second is should it be legal to knowingly provide a list of places that would be thieves can find the material.

    The justification for theft that frequently seems to be being put forward here is that the big music industry moguls are charging far too much for their product and not passing that on to the musicians. Well you may be right, I believe RBS has a lot of money too, should we all be allowed to help ourselves to a chunk? I suspect most right minded people would argue that bank robbery is not justified just because banks are wealthy.

    The argument that just because music industry moguls are greedy we are going to deprive them AND the artists even more somehow does not wash. To add to this hypocrisy is the fact that a quick check on Pirate Bay shows that people are quite happy to list material from independent labels that are not rolling in money. I am now less convinced than ever that the average copyright thief is really doing this out of a burning desire to stick it to the man and more out of their own desire to have something for nothing.

    Now the argument that the Pirate Bay are not hosting any copyright material so should not or could not be prosecuted. Well obviously they are indeed not actually taking part in the theft but they are making it far easier for the would be thief to track down the material. Suppose I ran a site listing people who are known to have gone on holiday and their addresses. I might argue that this is done so that the milkman can make sure the order is cancelled or that a public spirited neighbour can keep an eye on the property. However if I then call that site ‘theprowlersbag’ and boast on television about how if I want something I just take it, then perhaps people might suspect my motives are not pure.

    Should Google etc. also be prosecuted? Well it depends. What are their motives and what are their reactions when told they are listing something illegal? You Tube are quite prepared to delist anything if they receive a complaint. Can we consider Google to be complicit in other crimes such as child pornography, terrorism, helping drug suppliers. I’m sure that a quick Google on any one of these topics would lead to results.

    Something I do find a little strange is the copyright rule in the UK that says someone buying a CD cannot make a backup copy. In the Netherlands you are indeed allowed to make a backup. Solving this should not require a change in law it should simply require the individual musicians to state somewhere on the CD that they are happy for you to make a copy onto whatever medium you like as long as it is for your own use and so long as you destroy those copies when or if you pass that CD on.

  82. Steve
    Black Helicopters

    Call me a conspiratorist (or something)

    ..but wasn't it convenient that the pre-release of the Wolverine movie was leaked in a very high-profile way while this case was rattling on through the courts. The movie industry couldn't have had better luck if they'd planned it themselves. And of course since it was so unfinished, most people would still go and see it in the cinema anyway..

    Steve.

  83. Chris

    @AC 11:01

    Yup. The wife and I are regular visitors to a torrent site set up specifically to provide access to TV shows, who's name leaves you in no doubt that it exists to provide TV torrents... All of the shows we download from this site are shows we could watch on terrestrial or satellite (and as payers of both the TV Licence and SkyHD subs, we are entitled to watch them on whichever channels they're shown), and many of them are shown here within a week or so of their US broadcast. So why do we bother torrenting them?

    1. Even on a standard def torrent, the image quality is better than the over-compressed garbage we get on Sky (non HD) or Freeview, and the HD torrents are easily the equal of what Sky provides on its HD channels when it can be bothered to source HD material instead of just upscaling SD material and slapping a HD logo in the corner of the screen.

    2. The time we have available to sit down and watch grown-up TV shows is limited - most days if we're lucky we might have a couple of hours at the end of the day after getting our 18 month-old son off to bed and before we then have trouble staying awake. So when we want to catch up on the latest events in the lives of Jack Bauer, the Petrelli Family, the Dharma Initiative etc., we'd really rather like it if we could just press play and have the show start straight away, AND then not have our viewing interrupted every 10 minutes or so by 5 minutes of ads, especially since the SkyHD boxes are notoriously bad at fast-forwarding (can anyone tell me what the point of 12x and 30x modes are, when they're slower than 6x mode?) and even worse at responding to remote commands once you're in fast-forward mode. So far, every single episode we've downloaded has been edited to perfection, with no extraneous material preceding the start of the episode (compare this to the couple of minutes we have to add onto the start of each Sky+ recording to guarantee the start of the show will be recorded even if the guide timings have deviated from reality once again), and has always been stripped of all ad breaks - in some cases so cleanly that you'd be hard pushed to point out where the breaks were in the first place.

    3. The user interface provided by XP Media Centre makes the Sky+ interface look like something knocked together by Fisher-Price (and actually, now I think about it, that's being unkind to FP...). Considering how many shows you can fit onto an unmodified SkyHD box, it beggars belief that Sky still persist with the same tired recorded show listings which become increasingly unuseable as you get beyond a couple of screens-worth of shows. Can't sort it, can't move stuff up and down the list, can't tell which episode is which without pressing the i button...

    4. We don't have to worry that, if anything happens to our media centre PC, we lose all our recordings - everything is backed up elsewhere on our local network, and if necessary we could simply re-download most if not all of it again. If the SkyHD box goes belly up, chances are we'd lose everything...

    In short, the torrented versions of the shows are better quality and more user-friendly than the versions we could view via the respective broadcasters. So why would we want to go back to watching them over the air?

  84. Mike Smith
    Pirate

    @Chika

    "The thing is that we are caught between extremes; the big conglomerates who want to protect their perceived right to fleece every poor farty with no comeback and the various folk who want to open everything up in a kind of internet anarchy. Until the two sides actually get together and talk rather than butt heads, this is just an example of many similar actions to come"

    You're absolutely right; and the losers will ultimately be the big conglomerates. I won't mourn their passing, but it will make life much more difficult for the artists.

    It will take a long time for the battle to be fought to a finish, and during that time more and more people will grow up with the easy availability of P2P and torrent networks. It will become increasingly socially acceptable to share files on a small scale, which will make it correspondingly more difficult to make people take any notice of the copyright laws. It doesn't help, at least in the UK, to have such manifestly unfair restrictions on copying for personal use. Not that I've ever met anyone who pays the slightest attention to that, but it does give another string to the anarchists' bows.

    It's a pity, because if the conglomerates were run by people whose brains resided in their heads rather than their backsides then they might have been able to harness P2P and torrent networks as a good distribution medium. But that requires vision and ability, which aren't commonly found in business "leaders" these days.

  85. Jon
    Stop

    @Alan Mckenzie

    "You make an "internet license" obligatory, much as a TV license is, and divide the money collected amongst the composers, performers, film makers etc."

    You are not speaking for me. I DO NOT WANT this. Why should my money go to fund the coke habbit of the next Brittney Spears or X-factor publicity whore. I will pay for the music I like by paying for it, no be forced to pay for stuff that makes me regret the modern world.

  86. DR

    @Steven Jones

    "The argument that the site was there as a general purpose directory for innocent use of file sharing was fatally undermined by two things. First the stupid arrogance of calling it "Pirate" Bay and, secondly, because if lacked any means of taking down links which breached copyright. Indeed the only reason the site was popular was that it was largely used for streams of copyrighted material. These four made money from this business model (not necessary for a conviction of course, but no doubt a contributory factor to the sentence).

    So can people finally stop equating eBay, Google, BBC and so on links to this case. It just tends to confirm your own loose contact with reality..."

    OK.... lets look at this very simply, we'll look at google,

    firstly, as you know google own you tube, as pointed out above, you can find movies on youtube, i.e google ae hosting copyrighted material, (as well as hosts of songs). as I've said before in the google vs. PRS threads, search for a song name or artist name, you'll see hundreds of boot leg recordings, videos, and covers, (and cover versions are covered under copyright law). so Google host illegal content AS WELL AS providing pointers to illegal content, and in some cases, as well as providing links to illegal content, certainly in the case of text and images, they'll even cache that content thus the store illegal content even when a user has not uploaded that content.

    google put ads on the page, and boast that they index everything so you can search for anything you want, "windows" + "XP" + "torrent", yes, a very specific search term, but one that you can make. and google freely provide the search results and also display ads along side them, they are the worlds biggest ad broker, and they make their money by putting ads along side all searches illeagal or other wise, that's how they are like TPB...

    HOWEVER! just to prove that I'm not stupid, I do realise that providing links to illegal material is not the core business model of google, it just happens to be one of many uses for the technology.

    Anyway, back to you you tube argument,

    we've already seen that they do host illegal content.

    it's called youtube, tube being an old word for TV, so it's like the TV that you control, put whatever you like on there, we'll just stick some ads next to it and make whatever money we can.

    youtube encourage people to upload all kind on content, including illegal and copyright infringing material.

    you think that google really want to take down popular content that makes people come back again and again and again. they provide a link to take down copyrighted content because in the countries where they are based that provision is the LAW, they provide a means for take down to stop themselves being sued in a court.

    TPB don't provide links to take down because they are in Sweeden, and the LAW in their country doesn't necessitate this.

    Anyway, the Pirate bay, arrogant name yes,

    yet no more arrogant that you tube, the TV all about you, for you to upload what you like.

    take downs? a minor point that only comes about because the law of the relevant land specifies it. and doesn't come about where it's not required.

    are you suggesting that if TPB provided a link to request take downs of their pointers that they'd have had more of a chance?

    comparing TPB to google is amateurish if you say that they only do what TPB do, because google in fact are doing far more than TPB ever intended to do.

  87. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    @steve jones

    *** It was a judgement against a business model that was predicated on the exploitation of copyright breaches. The argument that the site was there as a general purpose directory for innocent use of file sharing was fatally undermined by two things. First the stupid arrogance of calling it "Pirate" Bay and, secondly, because if lacked any means of taking down links which breached copyright. Indeed the only reason the site was popular was that it was largely used for streams of copyrighted material. These four made money from this business model (not necessary for a conviction of course, but no doubt a contributory factor to the sentence).***

    1. To make money from a business model which is predicated on the exploitation of copyright breaches: a) Cassette Recorder; b) VHS Recorder; c) CD Burner; d) DVD Burner

    2. Stupid arrogance of giving something a name which suggest the exploitation of copyright breaches: a) Cassette *RECORDER*; b) VHS *RECORDER*; c) CD *BURNER*; d) DVD *BURNER*

    3. Equipment manufacturers lacking means of deleting copyrighted material recorded by end users of: a) Cassette Recorder; b) VHS Recorder; c) CD Burner; d) DVD Burner

    4. Indeed the (almost) only reason for why all of the main consumer recording technologies have historically proven to be popular was that they largely were used to record copyrighted material. Artists often use professional equipment which mainly is significantly different: a) When consumers use cassette recordings: artists use professional (reel) tape recorders; b) When consumers use VHS recorders: artists use either film or later professional Betamax; c) When consumers use CD burners: artists use HD; d) When consumers use DVD burners: artist use HD

    5. Streams of copyrighted material available contributing to copyright infringement; a) Radio; b) TV; c) Cable

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