rice you say?
i'll do it for two bowls of rice, whats the job?
The British National Party has pulled off a bit of a blinder by fronting an anti-immigration campaign with a poster featuring a Spitfire belonging to 303 Squadron of the RAF - the "most effective Polish squadron during the Second World War", as the Telegraph puts it. The BNP poster showing Polish Spitfire A spokesperson at …
Possibly they take it too far, but current immigration levels are far too high, and labour seem to be doing nothing, while the conservatives are probably not to be trusted either (as every single party seems to be trying to avoid alienating even a single voter) and of course, no point even listening to the lib dems as they have about as much chance of winning an election as there is a chance of me winning the lottery.
The threat from terrorism has not gone away either, and labour's incompetent handling is definitely not helping (they could at least deport the people with known and provable terrorist links who are living freely in the UK...)
Pretty straightforward I think. The BNP should visit the job centre and see how many lazy b**tards stay on the dole rather than get a job. Migrants are only taking jobs that are available coz they don't want to do it. "Three bowls of rice a day" - I'm sure minimum wage is higher than that these days. Ignorance, pure ignorance. In a government where we are not allowed to smoke where we want to, we let these racists run for office. Stupid.
What a fantastically subtle campaign from the BNP: No need to overtly campaign for support amongst those disaffected by the influx of Polish workers when the mainstream media can be easily gulled into making the connection for them, and then giving it huge publicity.
There are thousands of Spitfire pictures lurking around the Internet - it's no coincidence they chose this one.
/What happened to the dead vulture icon?
This is typical of the lack of thought that goes into everything the BNP does.
Perhaps it was supposed to illustrate how the Poles were enemies of the fascists and therefore likely to be enemies of the BNP as well. Oh no, how terrible.
However this is still topped by my favourite fascist shoots self in foot moment which was when David Irving, famous holocaust denier, inadvertantly addressed the judge in his libel trial (he was the plaintiff) as "Mein führer".
At the end of the War, Winston Churchill (himself only half British, as we all know) acknowledged that a debt was owed to the people of Poland for their part not only in the Battle of Britain but in signals intelligence, infantry and almost all other aspects of the war.
It was his wish that Poles people should be extended special treatment and offered UK citizenship, and be officially recognised for their contribution, but the powers that be (or the powers that were) gave them the same treatment as they latterly gave the Gurkhas, and so Poland has hardly been truly represented in memorials or honours lists, and the citizenship offer was never made.
It is thanks to the Poles that Britain got its hands on an Enigma machine right at the outbreak of war, a feat that was to tip the intelligence war in its favour and, as the article states, Polish pilots were renowned for their bravery and skill -- of all nations to pick on, surely one that made such a massive contribution to "keeping Britain British" (as opposed to an outpost of the Reich) shouldn't even be on the list?
A few years ago my neighbour was berating Eastern Europeans in general, for exactly the reason given by Simon Derby, yet his case in point was his own kitchen extension, which was being built by Poles because "they're less than half the cost of British labourers." Whilst considering himself to be a principled man, he totally failed to see any irony in his ability to spout bullshit principles that he himself could not be arsed to pursue.
At the risk of starting something...
Whatever your views about economic migration, Britain and Poland have a special connection that needs saying. Not only did Polish pilots fly for the RAF during WWII but Polish scientists provided the first analysis of the German Enigma code machine and passed this on to the Bletchley Park code breakers to give them a head start on the code breaking. A memorial to the Polish code breakers is at Bletchley, a small thing certainly but important to those of who know.
After the war Poland was badly treated by the carve-up of Europe by the Allied Powers and ended up part of the Soviet block, Many Poles feel this a betrayal on our part and I can't say I blame them.
Many Poles settled in this country after the war and I am pleased to say I know some of them,
I am proud of our links to the Polish people and the fact that we stood together against facism then and now.
Not at all anonymously!
Intentional or not (and I really suspect not) it makes them look very stupid and if anything should engender positive feelings towards the Polish who helped us defend our shores in the dark days of the BoB!
And here's the original image they nicked for their poster (makes a nice wallpaper):
'The last major example of the Polish coming over here and taking our jobs was, as the Telegraph notes, during the aforementioned Battle of Britain when their pilots accounted for 203 Luftwaffe aircraft - roughly "12 per cent of total German losses".'
It would be very easy to read this as "Polish pilots were flying 203 Luftwaffe aircraft, but were rubbish and accounted for 12% of the total German losses" - unless that was their plan and they were all undercover agents.
AC: Point or not, I will not stand by and watch a racist organisation become a viable political entity, and there are millions more like me
....I deplore everything the BNP stands for. But you, A. Coward, are just as bad as them. You want to remove the democratic rights of a chunk of people, just because you dont like their views.
We should welcome all opinions to the democratic process, so that they can be weighed and found wanting.....
So, I take it that you will be opposing both Labour and Tory at the next election?
Not to mention the various local nationalist parties in all of the provinces?
I'm afraid I don't believe either side regarding this poster, or pretty much any political issue at the moment, but generally speaking banning things doesn't help, BNP included.
The BNP just don't get it.
If a Polish person is beating you to a job that reflects more on you than the Polish people. You have the advantage of living in this culture and with this language so instantly have a head start over any immigrant. If you then fail to get the job then lol @ you because you are a failure being unable to do better in an interview than someone you have an inherent advantage over.
What's more, the Polish seem a bloody hard working bunch so to attack them is laughable when you look at the trash we get in England by way of English cowboy plumbers and so on. Because they are so hard working they actually boost our economy more than a lot of native British/English workers.
If the BNP had a campaign to kick lazy people out the country then great, unfortunately that'd no doubt backfire and end up with half of them being kicked out themselves. Focussing on people because of their country of origin even though they have a better work ethic than many native workers is laughable though.
Of course, the Polish are just a small subset of immigrants, we often hear about the Pakistanis amongst which there is a rather sizeable group with strong anti-British sentiment but even here we should be focussing on dealing with them not based on race, but simply because that particular troublesome subset of Pakistanis are a bunch of idiotic dicks. The rest that work hard and treat others with respect should be more than welcome to stay.
Having Polish relatives in-law, I can vouch for the fact that Poland is certainly on par, if not ahead of Britain in terms of living standards. Since escaping the clutches of the Soviet Union, Poland has leaped-frog beyond recognition and has an economy and society based on the British model but that isn't saddled by debt, and a population that is kind, helpful, generous and honest. English is widely spoken.
Northern Poland looks like a cross between Britain and Swtzerland, still full of forests and lakes where daily life is safe and friendly. The thriving streets are as familiar as any British city/town except that they are clean and free of hoodies and drunks. And best of all, the trains run on time and do not resemble cattle-trucks.
I for one would welcome my Polish overlords (you could say I already have one) and would move over there without hesitation. The downside? The weather. -20 and lower in the winter is really quite unpleasant, which is, I reckon why the Poles are queueing up to come to Britain!
"current immigration levels are far too high"
which has sod all to do with most of the Polish in this country. Migrant workers =/= immigrants. And where I live, recession or no, most of the local chavs turn their noses up at the jobs the Polish end up getting. All other things being equal, a local applicant has a better chance than a Polish applicant, simply because you don't have to hone up their language skills. Yet many jobs are taken by Polish. What does that tell you? That no quality local applicants exist.
The Polish come over here when they're young, pay taxes, rent houses, spend money in our shops and bars, and bugger off home when they get older, meaning they don't cost the NHS much, if any, money. Seems like a good deal to me
The BNP is LEFT wing not Right wing, so it would make them Communists not Fascist.
Ok when you put them side by side there are basically the same, Forced Labour Camps, Tight Gun Controls, Nab you in the night Police States and a general Genocied of your minority populations. And this is because these are Authoritarian states rather than Libertarian states which we laughably think we live in.
*\. Left Arm in the Left Arm and Right Arm in the Right Arm, otherwise I'd be wearing it backwards.
Is actually the fact that the Poles WILL move to another country for work. Here they won't even move to another town, never mind another country. However, the government doesn't make it easy to move. Try getting on a council house list in another region, you can't as you're already considered to be housed, despite the job you're applying for being 100 miles away from where you currently live.
Polish builders earn 20UKP per day in this country. At least those who did work for a bunch
of landlords in High Wycombe were getting this rate.
My hubs recently took on a fixed fee garden renovation job and ended up getting 65UKP for 4
days work. I have told him he is not doing that again - by the time he pays for food, diesel etc he risked making a loss.
So, there is work out there for the brits but only if they are prepared to work for less than 20/day.
Likewise the hotel in the thames valley area are hiring cleaners - at a fixed rate per room.
You end up again getting less than 10UKP for an 8 to 10 hour shift - with 3UKP coming off
for travel expenses.
You could consider labour a 'racist organisation' for discriminating against their own people and giving special privileges to any extremist who comes into the UK with the intention of turning it into a muslim nation while discriminating against people for no other reason than their being white and middle class, instead of happening to be an immigrant.
Racism works both ways, the UK isn't Iran.
Steve:"The membership of the BNP are idiots, that is why they cant get jobs"
You should worry about the ones that did manage to get jobs, in the police, in government, in any position they can grab all that data our authoritarian government is determined to grab from us. They aren't all bumbling fools.
One of the most compelling arguments against the Orwellian world labour are building is who might get access. A timely reminder that its not just the nightmare of thugs like the BNP achieving power sometime in the future to worry about, its also their existing infestation of positions with the power to abuse.
as an ardent monitor of the BNP activities I can also disclose that, on more than one occassion I have witnessed (all be it covertly, disguised as a bull dog) senior BNP members attending Polish oriented entertainment in the form of POLE DANCING.
Aparrently, during a recent visit to his favourite 'watering hole' the aptly named Vladimir & Firkin a senior BNP official noted a tatoo on the inner thigh of his favourite dancer - Natasha Koplenskinoff. The tatoo read 'slippery ven vet', which as any fluent Polish speaker will tell you roughly translates into; God bless the motherland, Warsaw general hospital and the Polish deli on Oldham out-door market.
When challenged the official stated 'its not that we are against Polish people persay it's just that, well....you know - hey look at that really interesting thing over there!'
O.K. just to settle the arguments.
Every person in the U.K. is to be DNA tested. If there is a group of people with pure English DNA then the rest of us can bugger off to where we came from.
Which would mean that most of Blighty would be empty and Africa and all-those -places-ending-in 'stan' will be packed full. There will still be pockets of argumentative Cornish and the like but nothing else.
The Spitfire in the photo is still flying and is operated by the Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight. It flew in the front line operations in the war and destroyed a German bomber. Later in its life it was involved in a famous incident when it accidentally took off with a ground crew member sitting on the tail - she hung on and was unharmed.
I'm very pleased that the plane has been preserved in Polish colours.
Are you lot for real?
Anyone who thinks Britain is even slightly in danger of turning into a Muslim* nation really needs to get out more.
Also, regarding the comment:
"Point or not, I will not stand by and watch a racist organisation become a viable political entity, and there are millions more like me."
I don't see how this can be reasonably interpreted as an intention to ban the BNP or remove their democratic rights. The best way to combat the BNP is to raise awareness of exactly what they stand for so they have less chance to fool the gullible and then vote against them whenever they stand at elections.
*What would be the problem if Britain was turned into a Muslim nation anyway?
Its a coincidence but the those Telegraph quotes "most effective Polish squadron during the Second World War" and "because no other Polish units were invited" are the exact phrases that can be found on the wikipedia entry for No. 303 Polish Fighter Squadron.
there! an IT angle! Huzzah and Tally-ho
Can you go and live in a different country please. You would probably fit well in 1950's Britain although I would suggest 1940's Germany would suit you best. Then you could lock up all those terrorists into slum areas so you could feel safe, although if you don't have a time machine modern Israel might just be the place for you.
Would you like to see people being forced into this dangerous cult disguised as a 'religion'? would you like to be?
Would you like to see women, your family perhaps, forced to wear a veil in public? forced into arranged marriages? banned from working, driving, going out in public alone or talking to men they are not related to? stoned to death if they resist?
I thought not (and if you do, kindly go back to Iran and leave the west for the free)...
You actually do have a point about Israel, they are one of the few countries prepared to make a stand against terrorism and I respect them for that. I doubt I could move there as I am not Jewish and do not know the language, although perhaps I may have to in the future unless europe/USA take a stand against terrorists at some time.
I have plenty of tolerance for other cultures as long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto others. For the ones that do, I have no tolerance or sympathy.
While you may whinge about them being able to stand for election, or about them not being banned, consider this - If we banned them or removed their democratic rights (as slim as anyones rights are these days, but I digress), they would go underground and carry on anyway, probably get more extremist until they start getting really nasty - A wannabe Hitler loony gains control, and starts blowing people up.
Keep them legal - It's enough to give them an illusion of grandeur to keep the megalomaniac leadership happy, in turn keeping the knuckle dragging followers placid - they're unlikely to get elected (Britain has never really fell for the extremist thing en masse) and we get the added benefit of some pet fascists to laugh at when they do stuff like this.
To steal a quote 'Better on the inside p!ssing out, than on the outside p!ssing in'.
"The mugs have also swallowed the BBC/ dead tree press line that they are "right wing".
They are in fact national socialists.
er.. oh our mistake.
you mean like that nice group of 'socialists' that won an election in the 1930s in germany ?
what were they called again.... National Socialist German Workers' Party. that was it. or Nazis as we more commonly refer to them.
just 'cause it has 'socialist' in the name does not, a left wing politcal party make....
> Possibly they take it too far
> but current immigration levels are far too high
and what are those immigration levels, exactly? If you can't say exactly what they are - with good references please, not just 'I was talking to some bloke on the Tube the other night' - they clearly you are unclear about the scale of the problem, no?
and labour seem to be doing nothing, while the conservatives are probably not to be trusted either
> every single party seems to be trying to avoid alienating even a single voter
Which would this not imply that the BNP - being a political party - are doing the same thing?
> and of course, no point even listening to the lib dems as they have about as much chance of winning an election as there is a chance of me winning the lottery.
Which would also apply to the BNP n'est ce pas?
> The threat from terrorism has not gone away either
True, but that's because there wasn't much of a threat in the first place. Those who are paranoid see threats around every corner as I'm sure Mr. McCarthy would be happy to confirm were it not for the fact that he popped his clogs over 50 years ago.
> and labour's incompetent handling is definitely not helping (they could at least deport the people with known and provable terrorist links who are living freely in the UK ... )
How amusing - you spelled 'incompetant' incorrectly, implying (as if proof other than your stated views were needed) that you are yourself incompetant.
...myself, I got my first job here in 1977 after the boss admitted I was the only one to bother applying. I have consistently outperformed my peers ever since.
Now I interview job applicants, most of which are unemployable. Literacy and numeracy is dreadful and don't get me started on work ethics, timekeeping and loyalty!
The Polish workers I have met and worked with would be mortified if thought of as lazy and the quality of production they deliver is superb. (Their joiners arrive not only fully qualified, they often have extensive hands-on experience.)
We do have great home grown talent, I'm sure, but simply not enough to satisfy demand. Ironically, Poles are now moving back as the quality of life at home is rising above ours...
Paris because of all the jokes already made and I can't be arsed to come up with something original.
PS. I'm Spanish born, now a UK citizen.
I think you clearly show why the BNP still has so little support in this country. I appreciate there is a vocal minority of small minded, small brained, Daily Mail believing people like yourself who see the word "Muslim" and start frothing at the mouth, stocking up on tinned goods and extending your cellars whilst constantly shouting "Don't panic! Don't panic!" but thankfully the rest of us see you for the slightly amusing but worrying "eccentric" that you are.
Do some research on Islam. Yes some Muslims want to forcibly convert everyone to Islam and at the same time oppress various groups including women, homosexuals, people who are not them etc. but by far the majority of Muslims (especially in this country) are just normal, reasonable people.
If you think about it (or better still, ask a grown up to explain it to you) you will see that although there are a significant number of fundamental Christians* who would also like to oppress pretty much the same groups as the Fundamental Muslims and impose pretty much the same restrictions on freedom it clearly does not follow that the UK as a Christian country wants to do the same.
Now go away, I do not want to talk to you any more.
*like the tens of thousands who wanted to have the BBC arrested over Jerry Springer the Opera, or those Christians who send death threats to David Attenborough because he believes in Evolution, or those lovely American Christians who campaign at soldiers funerals because it is God's punishment for the US not burning gays, or even down to the fact that many Christian sects do not recognise Women as anything like the equal of men (nuns vs. priests, women bishops) etc.
Sorry - I'm just a little peeved by the earlier comments about the Spitfire (and RAF) being epitome's of "Englishness". That's exactly the kind of John Bullsh*t that the BNP trot out. And it's a f***ing insult to the Irish, Welsh and Scots in the RAF, (and other armed services of course).
Small historical note - the so-called "Battle of Scotland" actual preceded the "Battle of Britain" by a wee bit, and the first German aircraft downed over British soil was shot down south of Edinburgh by 603 Squadron (who were flying Spitfires at the time).
And before anyone out there pigeonholes me as 'just another rabid Jock' - I'm actually English. It's just really get's my goat when you get other (mainly US folks) assuming that I live in the "English Isle's".
Good points being made about the contribution of the Poles (and Czech's, French, etc) to defending the country. And of course the contribution of the Polish codebreakers (the 'bomba' machines) made to the efforts at Bletchley Park. Maybe those idiots in the BNP would be well advised to learn that little bit of history...
End of rant - I'll go back to sleep.
Undercutting local jobs may suck, but frankly when you see the quality of work, speed and dedication of many of the Polish who come over here compared to the shoddy lazy over-running and over-priced work of some British labourers, there really is no argument. If you want to compete, improve the service and quality FFS!
Of course that's not to say all Brits are like this, but I do dismay at my own country sometimes. Public sector work is especially bad. Just look at how long it takes to dig a hole and lay a pipe along a short section of road. Go to some places in Europe and certainly North America, and it would be done in a few days, a week at the most. Britain? Roadworks for 3 months and watch them scratch their arses all that time (if they're there at all), and we pay for it in our taxes!
The Polish are a bit of an exception though. There are some countries who are sending over plenty of rubbish quality workers (especially in IT) who are undercutting British jobs. However British companies soon learn the mistake here as they realise they aren't up to the job.
I dunno about the "BBC/Dead Tree Press" but the BNP's own language guidelines say...
"Rule #2: The BNP is not a ‘fascist’ or ‘fascistic,’ let alone a ‘Nazi’ or ‘neo-Nazi’ or ‘national socialist’ party. It should never be referred to as such by BNP activists, and anyone else who does so must be politely but firmly corrected. The precisely correct description of what we are, in the standard terminology of international comparative politics, is a ‘right-wing populist’ party."
You can look at all the guidelines here:
It is really quite hilarious to see how they need to remind their members what it is they actually believe and how to be all politically correct about it.
Posted Wednesday 4th March 2009 16:36 GMT
" So was Hitler. Are you suggesting that he wasn't a fascist?"
Ah, the Strawman cometh.
Did you see me say that? No? That's because I didn't.
Perhaps you need to enable subtitles for the hard of thinking.
I am weary of all the bleats from the discredited left that we are Nazis, Racists, etc when they run out of brain early in the argument....everyone is someone else's' Racist/ Demon/ Nazi now...I don't even hear the words anymore.
I've tuned you out.
Last name smith?
Thats the fault of the employer, not the poles, plenty of uk companies love to undercut the minimum wage, deprive workers of breaks etc while screaming their precious profits are being STOLEN.
£10 for an 8 hour shift...dont make me laugh, either work harder or report them to the national minimum wage enforcement line.
The problem is the damned agencies recruiting overseas and pledging cheap workers with no hassle to employers. A loophole that should be slammed shut, agencies are scum and total scum at that.
"The threat from terrorism has not gone away either, and labour's incompetent handling is definitely not helping (they could at least deport the people with known and provable terrorist links who are living freely in the UK...)"
So lets deport those with provable terrorist links, how about with start with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness ?
Maybe we should arrest Dick Cheney next time he comes over, after all, he was the man bankrolling Saddam in the 80's and OBL in the 90'
Or is it only the darkies and the muslims your after?
Lets face it I cant recall a single polish terrorist ever doing anything in the UK or anywhere else for that matter, Poland's not exactly known for its terrorism in the grand scheme of things.
I would rather have a 1000 hard working poles than a single BNP supporting chav scum benefit scrounger, at least the poles contribute to the economy.
Most of the BNP mob moaning about the loss of "english" jobs wouldnt know what work was unless it wandered upto them and slapped them in the face with a wet fish!
Paris, even she isnt dumb enough to support the BNP!
Uhh, I can't understand your point about the BNP having made a blinder of a mistake - the spitfire is an outstanding symbol of British success, and the BNP are not anti-Polish - so have I missed something here??? The BNP are anti-EU and NOT anti-Europe, and the BNP have many members Polish members, some even as upcoming candidates.
Take a look at www.bnp.org.uk and get your own facts straight!!
FFS we have only in recent history thrown off the shackles of Christianity and all the horrors that religion visited on our nation.
The last thing we need is for it to be replaced by another primitive and backward superstition originating, like its predecessor, from desert dwelling tribes who lived in the past millennia or so.
As an aside, my philosophy is to judge people by character, not colour or religion. Didn't some famous American bloke say that once?
"*What would be the problem if Britain was turned into a Muslim nation anyway?"
You mean, aside from the sexism, racism, fascism, homophobia, lunacy, and regression?
Well, we already have a party to cater for most of these view points, and that is the BNP.
Oh, and also because the koran makes about as much sense as the bible or Through The Looking-Glass, and it seems a little childish to base a countries ethical code on the musings of the Jabberwocky.
"Look at all the poor spelling in the posts slagging the BNP.
The mugs have also swallowed the BBC/ dead tree press line that they are "right wing".
They are in fact national socialists."
Sam, do you remember what NSDAP (Nazi Party) stands for?
Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei = *National Socialist* German Worker's Party. Pretty much every organization using the "National Socialist" flag has some degree of racism and/or fascism ingrained in their ideology.
It's wonderful to be among such impartial and well-informed reg-readers who post debase insults about BNP members, continually misinform others about the BNP and think Poles are inherently harder workers than Brits. I respect you all!
There I was, almost persuaded by the BNP's truthful representation of the effects of mass immigration, and now this happens. They use an iconic British fighter to represent their 2009 "Battle for Britain" election campaign but fail to check who the pilot was. How terrible! Clearly this must mean that there are no competent people among them. Labour's failings pale in comparison.
Don't the BNP know that they are obliged to live up to their hateful-of-everything-non-British portrayal by our deceitful mainstream media? Heaven forbid people realise the truth that the BNP don't advocate hatred, but actually care first-and-foremost about the future of our people and this country.
Surely any intelligent person can see that the Labour party's balanced view of "no obvious upper limit on immigration" will deliver a prosperous future for this country? As our honeymoon with fossil fuels comes to a close, how quickly will it become apparent that Britain cannot support even half it's present population in a sustainable way? When the truth finally dawns on them, as our society collapses and millions perish, future generations will be ever grateful to us for voting in this succession of pro-immigration parties and convincing ourselves that a zero-immigration party must be extremist and racist. Here's to the future under LibLabCon.
Seeing as we are all getting our gonards in a latther about the treatment the poor Polish workers are getting over here (Britain) can anyone confirm or refute the reports current in London about signs on building sites requesting NO ENGLISH workers while recruiting lower earning Poles? And if we are so bloody sorry for the Poles why did we not keep fightiong to stop the Russians taking over it and the rest of the bloody Balkans post WW2? And why did we not declare war on Stalin's Russia which attacked Poland from the other side in 1939 and met Adolph and his goons in the middle? A good Polish friend of mine, sadly now deceased, who fought in WW2 in the RAF and was Chief Engineer on Atlantic Conveyor when she was sunk in the South Atlantic, hated the Germans AND Russsians with equal venom.
Well said mate. I like the poles - except for the bitch who stole all the toilet rolls in the dorm 10 minutes before I needed a giant dump at 7 am.
Oh and it was a canadian who grassed her up. Seemed like a day for formerly allied nations who supplied considerable aerial power to our elbow.
You seem to be a bit confused. We do not ascribe right and left wing to what people say they are. If that were the case Mugabe would be considered a democratic titan, rather than the butcher he is. Its the policies they enact that define their position.
You can stick a label on something, that in iteself does not make it so.
Hitler's national policies make him a right wing nut case, just like the BNP's policies make them odious twats.
@Gary - the ever victorius Red Army was cheered as liberators as they entered Poland, because that is what they were. Lets not try and rewrite history now.
There is no need to "do your research on islam" again and again, the fruits of islam are the same everywhere it roots: sexism, racism, fascism, homophobia, corruption, widespread acceptance of lunatic behavior and inevitable regression towards the living standards of the 7'th century!
The straw man of the "fundamentalist/lunatic cristian minority" sadly does not work towards making islam look reasonable; A *valid* comparison between islam and christianity should be with the 12'th century version - when cristianity wielded real power.
"Would you like to see women, your family perhaps, forced to wear a veil in public? forced into arranged marriages? banned from working, driving, going out in public alone or talking to men they are not related to? stoned to death if they resist?"
You know, you're talking about your biggest ally in Middle East, Saudi Arabia. Iranians are much more relaxed, they have more women in politics than USA does, and their concession to Muslim wear usually means a scarf thrown over their hair.
This story is true, because I personally know the the people involved.
A guest who came to our hotel every year with his family, were originally from the Ukraine. I did not know at the time that he was an illegal immigrant, and only told us that was the case,because after his final visit to Blackpool, they were going back home to the Ukraine.
He then proceeded to tell my why they had to go home.
He had been working in London as a builder. he was taking home £180 per day, cash in hand. After the influx of Polish workers arrived, His employer (who knew he was an illegal) told him he would have to let him go, or cut his wages to £80 per day. The same amount as the polish were taking. The English workers were on over £250 per day (cash in hand)
He could not live in London, and take care of his family for that amount of money after paying rent, council tax, water, gas, electric...He never claimed any DSS benefits and even if they had to see a doctor, it had to be private. All the money he earned stayed in the English economy.
The Polish were sleeping in a caravan on the building site... no rent, no council tax, no water bills, no gas/electric bills, and they were sending the bulk of the money home to Poland.
My personal opinion is that all illegal immigrants should be shipped back home as soon as they are picked up,if they want to claim assilum they should do so as soon as they enter the country, not 5 years later... but i would sooner the polish went back home and my Ukrainian friend stayed in London.
What most posters here are forgetting is that according to the 2001 Census (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp) 87.5 percent of the population were White British, the remaining 12.5 percent do not constitute a mass immigration IMHO. Having grown up in a muslim culture I can assure you we are all not the same, none of my relatives have never seen a bufka. The BNP should exist, if people don't have a outlet for their frustrations and feel isolated they are more likely to take more drastic action.
First off. If you hate to say it then don´t.
"The threat from terrorism has not gone away either"
And it never ever will.
Just like the threat of being hit by a car never will
or the threat of Viking invasion
or choking of a piece of meat
or tripping over your own feet
Drowning in a boating accident
and so on. There are more threats in the world than could be listed and the only way to live is to get on with it. When did the Briths turn french?
Being Polish myself I have to agree with the point you made. The nationality is not important, but the fact somebody works illegaly is. There are certain rules which must be followed (like worker scheme registration for Polish workers, work permits for Ukrainians, minimum wages for everyone). Those comming to work illegaly are often exploited by gangmaster or directly by employer, and no doubt £80/day is exploitation.
The problem is not as much with illegal workers (because they are fact of live) or with their nationality, as with their number. High number is result of weak enforcement, because it undermines the rules. One can only guess why rules are not enforced hard enough.
Wheeling out history as a justification for current policy is getting a bit tiresome. The Poles fought from here because they were a little short of airbases on their own soil, not any great desire to defend Britain. It's not a comment on Polish heroism or current immigration, just fact shorn of the emotive , flag waving bilge.
Using previous historical allegiances as a guide to how we should relate to countries in the present is hardly useful. The Russians were one of our most useful WW2 allies, yet we spent most of the years since in a Cold War with them and a general state of huffiness in recent times. The Serbs; great wartime allies who just happened to turn into murdering, ultra-nationalist pricks at the mere mention of an 800 year old tiff with the Turks over which we ended up bombing them. If we stuck to history as foreign policy guidelines we'd be bombing the Italians for giving us civilisation at the sharp end of a ballista. We've fought the French more times than anyone else, yet we're (slightly begrudgingly, admittedly) matey with them these days, probably even more so with the Germans.
You're supposed to learn from history, not cherry-pick it when it suits your social engineering needs.
"the fruits of islam are the same everywhere it roots: sexism, racism, fascism, homophobia, corruption, widespread acceptance of lunatic behavior and inevitable regression"
Nooooo... Picked this quote, but there are several comments here making the same mistake.
You see, I'm an atheist and all religions are equally bad to me in principle, so I have no reason to defend this or that one. But it is clear that the mistake you are doing is to think that being Muslim is the cause of the bad traits you guys mention. **It is not!** The social, political, cultural, economical circumstances of the countries are the cause. If right now every single religious person in the UK just changed their religion to Islam, but didn't change in any other way, you would see no significant change in your society.
Not all Muslim countries have terrorists, in case you haven't noticed. Not all of them behave the same way. And not all Muslims in all countries do either. I have friends here in the US who are Muslim, born and bred in Virginia. They are nothing like you mention. They are just as good and bad as the rest of Americans of any belief system (or lack thereof). They drink alcohol but don't eat pork. They had sex before marriage but think Jews are not to be trusted. The wives work (some of the wives are not Muslim, by the way) and almost none uses any special attire unless it's some ceremony.
You see, they are not the stereotype people love to hate. Once their societies develop on their own, liberties and tolerance will also come.
Just read a Bible to see it's basically the same thing as a Koran or whatever -- you can find justification for "Islamic deficiencies" there too, if you want. Religious views keep being changed to stay adequate to the current societal views, and so it will always be.
From one Atheist to another...
Precisely and very well said.
"The social, political, cultural, economical circumstances of the countries are the cause."
Which, if not very well rounded or supportive of the human condition, leads to an increased population afflicted with general ignorance. General ignorance* is what religious dogma, any religious dogma, preys upon. Ignorance when combined with religious dogma led by an extreme zealot causes the fanaticism found in all religious beliefs and in all places in the world.
Illegal aliens should be deported promptly. There are LEGAL means to enter a country. Do try to follow the laws of the country you are living in.
*General Ignorance is the guy that lost the war in the battle for Humanity and Rationality.
before posting utter drivel. Firstly, can we get past the idea of all immigration being the same, there's three types, illegal, asylum and economic, the first two are slightly related, but only because if you claim asylum you're no longer illegal. Economic migration is what covers most of the Poles/Eastern Europeans etc. who come here completely legally to work, are given jobs, support our economy and build our houses. If we didn't have Poles we'd be in a real state, however most of them do in fact live in proper houses, and are packed in tight. They're paying council tax, and at the same time are providing work without the need for more housing which UK builders would probably request. Jobs are a market, and unfortunately, we've got to the stage where people have expectations about how much a job is worth (in exactly the same way that people kid themselves about being able to afford hugely expensive houses on high mortgages). If people are offering to do it cheaper, they'll get the job, it's pretty straightforward that bit. We have a minimum wage for a reason, and if you're in a paid-hourly job there's nothing saying that a company can't take better value. Maybe you should reconsider your job choice, or start making cutbacks to fit in with the market.
Asylum seekers tend to genuinely have some sort of case, however we're pretty bad at dealing with them. They're given small amounts of food tokens to look after themselves and if their request is refused they're given £50 to get out of the country and told to leave. Most first applications are refused, but the numbers drastically change after appeal (presumably when a closer look is taken at them). Here's the thing, we have a huge backlog of asylum applications (and along the way some have been lost, so some people will never know about the result of their application because the state doesn't know who they are), and so it does take an inordinate amount of time to process them, which means some people have to wait around here for 5 years until they know what to do. The asylum system desperately needs a rethink, but the number of asylum seekers per person of the existing population in the UK (ie the proportion of asylum seekers to existing residents) is actually ranked 12th in Europe, so we're hardly being flooded by asylum seekers.
Illegals are another matter completely, and the government is slowly doing better at getting rid of them, however it's still a major problem and one that will always tarnish immigration as a whole, and needs fixing at some point, the BNP are not the way to do it though.
The BNP hold disgusting and hateful points of view, however I'm quite happy to defend their right to say it, as to the people who have said that they are left-wing, this appears to be some sort of brainwashing that is applied to the inner parts of the BNP. The definition of right-wing is a party or section of people who want things to stay the same or return to a previous time, a left-wing organisation seeks constant change from the norm or what has preceeded. This clearly makes the BNP + Hitler right-wing, and the worst kind. It's generally applied to racist organisations simply because the idea of reverting to a "pure" society suggests reverting to a time before immigration has taken hold.
@Shakje (and others):
You have completely missed the point that the BNP is trying to get across. Nowhere have they objected to the Polish people or any other people for that matter. The objection here is the economic circumstance thats being perpetuated.
A common (and naturally completely wrong) attitude is "if they didn't do it, then nobody would" or "well the British people are too lazy to do it". This is so wrong is unbelievable, and demonstrates a disgusting failure to understand the British way of life.
We are NOT a third world country. We do NOT in this country decide that "3 rice bowls a day" (used metaphorically here) is adequate. The reason that most people are not doing the "dregs" jobs is not through laziness (although granted some people are just lazy) but because people simply can not subsist in this country on the wage offered.
I challenge anyone here to live in their own house with running water, electricity, telephone and a TV licence, paying council tax, rent and any vehicle costs (not to mention any loans) all from the wage offered to someone behind the counter of Macdonalds.It can't be done. It simply can't.
The tedious attitude here is "so find a cheaper solution, like house sharing, etc.". This is exactly what the Poles do. They house share. To extreme levels. They have the mindset to accept live in this appalling (sorry but that kind of cramming is appalling to me) state and thus a poor wage is acceptable. This is why Poles, Eastern Europeans, etc. are undercutting our jobs, because we simply do not have the ability to do the same jobs at OUR quality of life. As I said at the start, we are NOT a third world country.
Now the BNP is proposing that this practice stops. So that Britain is no longer an annex of Poland by virtue of all the low-age jobs being done by Poles while Brits who want to live in conditions where they have room to breathe sit on the unemployment list waiting for jobs that are harder to come by.
May I suggest anyone who thinks the BNP are racist do at least do some research first. I personally won't be voting for them on the grounds of their mixed-race and same-sex marriage policies, but I certainly support the idea of preventing Britain from becoming an annex of Eastern Europe.
With all this in mind, can the next article on the BNP please at least START from a neutral point of view, rather than presuming to be a piece on the Nazi party?
To be British today is to embrace the multicultural, multifaith nature of our citizens and residents. Life here has been enriched so much by the mix of cultures and languages, I would hate to have missed out on that. One of the things I like about the group of friends I have is that very mix of cultures, languages and faiths. This country would be terribly boring without them... In addition to which, many of them use their rights as citizens of the EU to move freely within the constituent countries. I appreciate the opportunity to choose where I live, and see no reason why the same should not be applied bilaterally. To be British is to be welcoming, and to be European is to rejoice in diversity. In varietate concordia!
Here endeth the lesson...
Take your name out of capitals, you should know how to present yourself with your obvious omnipotent grasp of the English dialect. Unless your name is ‘Stupid Ignorant Moronic Onanistic Male’
Bashing colloquially written comments takes no effort, done with wit may even produce mirth in your online peers, but dissecting line by line will make you look like a tosser.
Off to the pub on your own tonight by any chance?
If you want to solve the racism problem kick all the anglo saxons out of England. They've been nothing but trouble since they arrived and now they're involved in hate crimes and impotent wannabe terrorist organisations like the BNP. These inbred pasty slackers spend their time eating garbage food and drinking piss poor beers. When abroad and they drink full strength beers and proper measures of spirts they can't handle it, become terrified form a mob and proceed to moo out variations of the "in ger lahn" noise while attacking women and children.
I do not understand something : if people cannot live in this country on the minimum wages, how come they can live on dole? And, while we are at it, where do the money to pay the dole come from? I always thought it comes from taxes (and I pay fair amount each month), but maybe you have some insider knowledge to share. Lastly, myself and most Poles I know here do not share accomodation and live like anyone else - with their families. And making friends with our English (and other nationalities) neighbours, who are welcoming and plainly lovely people.
Well, I suppose I do not understand English way of life. I hope I won't learn it from you, though.
Love them? Hate Them?.....i just don't give a shit, they're a "political party" and like every other political party thats ever been they'll fuck up....all the others have and some have even fucked up in power so really another one won't make any difference. You know what they should do? make all immigrants (legal and illegal) take a payable exam, they pay for the exam, those that can't pay walk the plank and with the moeny of those that do pay use it to clear national debt, i'm sure there are enough illegals in this county to clear the debt.
Personally, i hate foreigners, I'm not racist however......i hate everyone equally for different reasons.
... if we could all get on together. You know, in perfect harmony like the keys on my pi-an-o keyboard?
Failing that, wouldn't it be nice if we could lynch BNP members on sight with impunity?
But we can't.
So the BNP will continue to spout poisonous filthy rascist lies about dagos, wops, wogs, yids, gyppoes, pakis, coons, krauts, pollacks, chinks and all the assorted riff-raff who make up - er - most of the people actually doing any bloody work round here (one of whom happens to be my daughter-in-law).
White working class? They vanished soon after the docks, coalpits and most of British industry was trashed by the tories. Now their progeny draw the dole, blame their ills on immigration and join the BNP.
"wasn't the whole of World Word II a fight against right-wing nut jobs? A Messerschmitt 109 would be a more fitting symbol for the BNP."
Hitler was actually a socialist. He was also mad. The two go together quite well. Socialism is a pretty mad idea.
Hitler was against the jews because of the jews association with money & banking. Banking and other capitalist activities are seen by socialists as the root of all evil. Hence Hitler’s hate for them - as a socialist, he did not like them.
There are a lot of other things that make Hitler a socialist, his camps and movements like Hitler-Youth and the Secret Police and all those other things that he either started or endorsed and the general brotherhood culture. Like-minded people all sticking together and enemy's or anyone different either killed, sent to prison or forced to leave Germany. Possessions confiscated, ect, ect...
Personally I feel with what the press and the opposition say about the BNP it would be impossible for anyone with any sense to even consider voting for them. But the truth is, if you strip-away all of the anti-BNP propaganda you will see that some of what their saying occasionally has some logic to it - not that I agree with it... I am a libral and wouldn't want anybody to be forced to do anything... but it's fair to say the BNP are more than just a bunch of 'skinheads'. They are the nationalistic party. It's also worth pointing out that other nationalistic parties have been elected before (although not in this country's recent history) For example - SNP could be seen as a kind of Scottish BNP and they are persuading the Scottish people to vote for them in increasing numbers using the same kinds of arguments that the BNP put forward in this country - i.e. Scotland is for the Scottish and we don't want the English. So the BNP are not total idiots and it would be foolish to simply assume that everyone working for them must be idiots and all the people that vote for them must be idiots... the truth is they support an ideology... and it's a pretty socialist ideology as well!
In other words, remember for the future that right-wing thinking is not Hitler and not racist or war-mongering, anti-semantic or BNP and not for uninteligent people - i.e. nutjobs. Right-wing thinking is capitalist and in favour of freedom and low regulation.
The most extreme kind of right-wing theories are the theories of anarchy where there are no laws and absolutely no conditions about who should live where and who should pay for the next big socialist project. Anti-tax, anti-government, law-of-the-jungle, survival of the fittest, ect, ect… although, just like I don't agree with socilaism, I don't agree with anarchy either. Somewhere in the middle is best.
In the UK, People go to work to keep long-term unemployed in a comfortable lifestyle. These people don't have to get up, only pop more kids out to increase the amount of Dole money they get. They call people who go to work "Stupid". Their homes are provided and maintained free of charge and they are given money. This money and support system is funded by taxpayers.
If you are a regular taxpayer and are made redundant, you fall under a different system - Jobseekers Allowance. If you and your wife have been working, have a nice home with a mortgage and one of you lose their job, then they are only entitled to £60 a week for 6 months. No matter how much you have contributed. If you don't have enough coming in to pay your bills and mortgage through redundancy, you can lose your home and trhere is no financial support in lieu of your contributions.
It kind of makes you think that those with no aspirations who are happy to sit around all day just might have the right idea. Don't set your sights too high and you will never be disappointed.
A Polish mate of mine told me that some Pilots were demoted for speaking in Polish when they were engaging enemy planes over London. i wonder if these were Pilots of 303 Squadron?
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